I think the reason why people currently in school thinks that they couldnt handle disciplining themselves to actually learn things because public schooling has made kids lazy.
Even though I'm sure you're very smart, I think one major problem wit unschooling is the "letting kids only learn what they want to learn" thing. In real life, you have to do lots of things that you really don't want to do. And you're going to have to deal with people vastly different from you, which is one good thing about public schools. It forces you to deal with the unmotivated and annoying. And I won't say anything about the cape because, well, I'm sure you're old enough to regret it now :)
@Rosebunse Still rocking the cloak, actually! In fact, I plan to make myself a new one for this winter, a nice long cream one with a burgundy lining ;)
As for the rest of your comment (the parts that aren't just blatantly snarky), I think you're missing the point. Unschooling is raising a kid in 'real life', letting them learn through interactions with the 'real world'. Putting a kid in school is putting them into a completely unnatural environment.
@Rosebunse Where else in life will you be forced to spend your entire day, six days a week, with a group of people exactly the same age as you? In the 'real world' you get to deal with people vastly different from yourself: senior citizens, young children, store clerks, street performers, businessmen (and women), people of different backgrounds and cultures and ages and professions. Trapped in a classroom you get to deal with people your own age,
@Rosebunse from the area you live in, who are currently going through a similar life experience to you: being at the same school every day.
In 'real life' you have to do some things that you don't want to, which everyone learns by living every day in their real lives in the real world. No one needs the concept artificially forced on them by parents and teachers arbitrarily making them do things they don't want to do.
@Rosebunse The real value is in learning to make yourself do some things you don't want to do if it'll help you achieve the things you do want, not in being forced to live your entire childhood and adolescent life doing whatever the school officials have decided you should.
@Rosebunse (Also, as a side note, people in school also have 'real' lives. I don't see how anyone can have a fake life. Unfortunately, our school system is part of the 'real world', and as such we all spend the days of our real lives living in the real world.)
@sarsan207 Well, when I said "real world", I meant outside of any type of schooling period. What I meant was, one good thing about public schooling that you may not get from home schooling is that it forces you to interact with people you probably wouldn't otherwise. I don't mean through volunteering, which is great, but sometimes you need to deal with different people from different backgrounds in a more "level" environment. Most homeschooled people I know are rather lacking in that area.
@Rosebunse Um, I never mentioned volunteering, if you thought that's what I was talking about I have no idea why...
Anyway, once again, the actual 'real world', outside of a school, is pretty good ground to interact with other people. I think a big problem about school is that it /forces/ you to interact with people you don't want to, day after day, without you having any choice in the mater.
@Rosebunse People have a right to choose who they spend their time with, and even if a kid is getting bullied they still don't have the option of just never seeing the bully again. They have to go back every single day. That sort of bizarre, forced social interaction isn't natural or healthy at all. The only place where you're just forced to endure the company of the same group of people day after day, regardless of how poorly they might treat you, is in a prison.
The problem is that most kids just sit there and watch TV and play video game all day. Also their social skills are almost always worse. The only way I believe unschooling work work is if their parents are wealth and can expose them to many things.
@Georgeqaws #1: "most kids just sit there and watch TV and play video game all day." I think the most concise way I can say this is "you're wrong." Kids, given freedom over their own lives & learning, might play video games and watch TV sometimes, but that's certainly not all they'll do (I would get into how TV & video games are not the horrible things people make them out to be, but I think a YT comment is too limited for that!). Learning is fun if it's never made into a chore!
@Georgeqaws #2: Social skills. Again, you're showing your ignorance. If you've even met an actual unschooler in your life, I'd be surprised, never mind enough of us to make sweeping statements like "unschooler's social skills are ALMOST ALWAYS worse!" Social skills are just another skill in life that comes more easily to some than others: & I've seen absolutely no difference in that between unschoolers and regular schoolers, & unlike you, I do have extensive experience with both!
@Georgeqaws #3: "USing only works if you're wealthy." Well, guess what, my family is firmly in the lower middle class, always has been, & unschooling "worked" quite fine for us. Life is all you need to learn, & provides more than enough people, information sources, & experiences whether or not you have much money.
Spouting off ignorant shit you know nothing about just isn't a good idea, 7 makes you sound, well, ignorant!
@xBloodXGusherx I think everyone is aware of that... Was that supposed to be a dig at the fact my sis is wearing a cloak in this video? Because really, it's not a very good insult, considering cloaks are awesome! ;-)
@xBloodXGusherx Then I'm sorry I thought there were! It's just that several people have made snarky comments about the cloak that were less than nice... Haha, yeah, I was really amused that she was wearing a cloak for this interview. :-P
I was unschooled - I am surrounded by graduate students, when I meet new people they are shocked that I have never been to college and that I was left to teach myself with some homeschooling, as I am often more intelligent or educated about many things than they are =\
I persue higher education with the unschool method - I don't have a degree, but degrees are often useless in America these days. Employers respect experience, knowledge and confidence before 'education' on paper
@EyeLean5280, "Education to me, and probably to most, means an acquired body of knowledge about the world, including human accomplishments. Understanding the effects of geology on climate...must include such things." Do you have research to back up your claim that most people would agree with your definition? Really now. And who says (except for you) that education must include the effects off geology on climate? That is limiting at best...you need a crash course on "live and let live".
@hannabthemd, Your comment was absolutely hysterical to me! "You can memorize and spit out random, un-useful facts all you want, but you can't talk in-depth about one subject"!?!? What do you think the nature of schooling is??? Teaching kids to memorize and spit out random, unuseful facts...and what do you think this brilliant young woman is doing in this interview except talking IN-DEPTH about one subject? You can't see the forest for the trees!
You can read something and learn about it. Anyone can do that. But do these kids take the time to UNDERSTAND what they're reading and learning? You can memorize and spit out random, un-useful facts all you want, but you can't talk in depth about one subject...
Everything she says is SO speculative. She says that she probably would not have gotten into writing if she was in school. How would she know that she would not have gotten into writing if she was in school? I have TONS of creative friends in highschool, some are even published. She makes it sound like school sucks peoples souls away. I'm sure schooling is not for everyone just as I'm sure unschooling is not for everyone either. I believe in hybrid approaches not radical approaches.
@jazzmatik Hey there, thanks for the comment! I'm 'Emi', the girl interviewed in this video.
I am a bit speculative in the video because, not having gone to school, I can never be positive about what I'd be like if I had. But I'd say I have a better idea of how I might have been than anyone else does, and knowing myself I highly doubt that I would be the creative person I am today. I'm naturally prone to overworking myself and getting too caught up in ultimately unimportant details, (continued)
@jazzmatik and if I had gone to school I think I would have wound up as a bossy, uptight perfectionist, not as the relaxed, happy, open-minded person I am today. There are certainly plenty of creative people in school, but judging from my own experiences and the experiences of those who have 'dropped out' of school and become unschoolers, there are plenty more people who would be wonderfully creative if given the chance.
The big problem is that schools are considered mandatory, (continued)
@jazzmatik and people are forced to attend them. Schools are not for everyone is a very accurate (and easy) thing to say, but most people believe that schools are. If people are shown the many options for 'education' that are open to them and given a real choice in the matter, then school can be a helpful, enjoyable path for some people. If people are forced into it, it really is a harmful thing to most.
@EyeLean5280 You should always keep in mind when talking to unschoolers that it's a well connected community. I know Holly Dodd personally, & find your comment rather insulting. You can hardly know what someone is like or what they know or who they are from a 5 minute YouTube clip. Also, raising up one person by putting down another just isn't nice.
@catzie690, I'm sorry if you found my remark insulting. I'm not surprised you know Holly - I'm in the Waldorf community, another very tightly-knit group.
I'm afraid I'm going to stick to my guns, here. I've said on her thread that Holly comes off as secure, charming and sweet, that she may be very intelligent, as her mother says, and that she may very well succeed in whatever she tries to do.
BUT if she is an educated and articulate girl, the video simply does not reveal that about her.
@EyeLean5280 Also, I don't really see "education" as something separate from life, or something that should, or can, be judged as a separate aspect of an overall person. She's self-confident, happy, articulate. She's also intelligent & capable. That's it. Isn't that supposed to be the whole point of education, anyway?
@catzie690, I appreciate your outlook and understand what you're getting at. I disagree about the "point of education," though. I can very easily imagine a self-confident, happy, articulate, intelligent, capable caveman (or woman).
"Education," to me, and probably to most, means an acquired body of knowledge about the world, including human accomplishments. Understanding the effects of geology upon climate, for example (of course it means much more as well, but must include such things).
@EyeLean5280 And do you know how much had to be learned to live as a "cave(wo)man"? All the knowledge of plants & animals & environment, tool & medicine making & shelter building... Honestly, I know of people now who are gaining these types of skills & plan on living in nature. They're very well educated for the life they've chosen.
I consider education the necessary knowledge & skills to live a fulfilling life. What that might mean is different from individual to individual.
@catzie690, yes of course I know (and now I'm finding *your* remark a bit insulting - maybe you should bear in mind that posters here are as intelligent and informed as you). But there are differences between a cavewoman's life and mine that are all the difference in the world to me.
For one thing, I'm 46 years old. As a cave woman, I'd be long dead now, and more than half my kids would likely have died in childhood. Neither is very appealing to me. I like cities. Cavepeople didn't have them...
...I'm not generally fond of superstition or giant predators. Paleolithic life abounded with both.
I'm a lover of art. There is some very great artwork from the cave days, but what would be the chances of my seeing anything created more than 20 miles or so from my home range? I might see only five or six top-quality pieces in my whole life - a very diminished existence to me!
Mozart's "Magic Flute" is pretty cool, but impossible in 15,000 BCE
It is education that separates us from the pre-urban societies of the paleo and neolithic periods. Without the passing on and building upon of acquired knowledge, most of us would never have existed, considering the mortality rates of hunter-gatherers.
Schools fill that function for most, and for good historical reasons. They could be vastly improved and kudos to anybody who finds a better way, but let's be honest and admit they don't destroy everyone who comes through the system.
@EyeLean5280 I have found that advanced education, the kind you can find in college education and beyond can be pretty useful at times, especially if you lack a starting point for yourself education, it can be a good groundwork.
School, pre-college, however, is entirely pointless. Simply in the sense that it is unnecessary.
Some system being available for voluntary early education could be beneficial for some people, but the current system doesn't fulfill that purpose.
@EyeLean5280 I don't consider my remarks to be insulting at all. Maybe you read a tone into them that wasn't meant to be there.
My point was that to be educated is to have the skills & knowledge needed to live in your time & place, & for the life you've chosen.
Your comments feel very prejudiced against indigenous peoples to me, as you've seemingly lumped all hunter-gatherers throughout time together & dismissed them all. That's a hell of a lot of amazing peoples & cultures.
@catzie690, Maybe I did, or maybe it could have been worded better. Whatever.
I'm surprised you're reading prejudice into my comment about indigenous peoples (since my very first remark about them was so glowing), but since I wasn't clear, I'll address your misconception about me and say I certainly do understand the amazingness of people and cultures not my own.
But I also understand the amazingness of the culture you and I share - which you do not seem to, according to many posts here.
But before you and I invest any more time in our conversation, I must ask: do you have any real interest in getting to know my point of view, of finding any common ground or mutual sympathy? Because if you don't (and I'm getting no sense at all that you do), we'd be wasting our time to continue.
@EyeLean5280 I have no intention of getting into a debate, as I really dislike debating, but your comments on all non-civilized peoples sound like they're based more on stereotypes than anything (from my own minimal research on anthropology, & from hearing much from friends very seriously into anthropology!).
But really, I think it's time for me to back out of this discussion. Thank you for your comments, I'm glad you found the video interesting! :-) I hope to do more interview vids in future..
@EyeLean5280 My sincere apologies. I totally misread your last couple of comments (skimming over them too fast & multi-tasking) to read that you were saying I was a bigot, when in fact you were saying that you knew I was wrong in thinking *you* "were a bigot". Still don't really want to continue the discussion, but wanted to apologize for that.
@hannabthemd Good for you, I'm glad you're happy! It's a shame, though, that you never discovered the joy of respecting other people and their choices in life. It's also a shame that you learned to judge people on such trivial things as what clothes they choose to wear.
(Cloaks are warm, comfortable, cozier than sweaters and can double as blankets! You should try one some time ;D)
@hannabthemd I've lived my whole life in the 'real world', never trapped within the artificial confines of a school environment. I'm already making money myself, and since I'm still living with my family I'm using that money for travel :)
@hannabthemd Haha, good food, but not where I'm aiming for. I have a love of Japan, the culture, history, natural world... I'm working on learning the language and researching all those details I need to know to make my trip a success :D
And the things about conformity are frustrating as well, since uniforms are compulsory around here, everyone thinks and acts the same, but during my time in state school, I really just refused to fit in, and now that I do my own thing with no-one to really 'copy' off, I'm my own person with my own style, and people really notice my individuality, since I'm not in school they're not so hostile about it, it's kind of strange but also really cool!
As a homeschooled (Unschooling, not heard that term sorry) child myself I can really relate to this interview, the stuff about conformity and questioning is so true!
I go to a few drama groups and almost every week I get the same questions, but since they all go to a regular state school, it's almost impossible to explain since they've only seen one side of the spectrum, they can't really understand it.
@1androo2 It would be awesome if I had a brooch like that! Unfortunately I have yet to find one D: The strings do give it the advantage of being super fast and easy to take on and off, though :D...
Pretty informative interview; I was curious to hear the opinion of someone who was actually unschooled on the matter. The most damning flaw I keep seeing with people who are unschooled is this "If I wanted to learn, I'd just pick up a book and learn" mentality that seriously underestimates the complexity of MOST of what you'd learn in high school. Also the "I don't need this, that and the other" attitude that will almost certainly prevent you from advancing beyond a certain stage in most careers
@Mrparris As unschoolers, that's what we DO! When we're interested, we pick up a book (or look it up online, or find someone who knows about it, or sign up for a class). Of COURSE when I want to learn something I just pick up a book. Schools like people to think that they hold all the knowledge: that things are just so complicated, you HAVE to go to school to be "taught" about them. Unschooling proves this isn't true.
@catzie690 I'm not undermining the intelligence of anyone who's unschooled, but in my experience it just isn't that easy to learn by reading straight from books. Maybe it is for you, but I'd be screwed if I didn't have teachers to regularly go to for help. I don't doubt that there have been a ton of unschoolers who have gone on to be successful, nor am I ignorant enough to think that this is a "new" phenomenon (which is what the media seems to think :S), but I think the school environment---
@Mrparris We don't read straight from books on all things. If we need help, we ask! Unschoolers sometimes even go to tutors or take a class, if they want to. The difference is that those things are always a CHOICE.
@catzie690 Ahh, I see. So your argument isn't against the public school system, but against mandatory education in shcools? I agree that school can wear away at your love of learning by repeatedly making you study something you have no interest in, but it also exposes you to a ton of new things as well, things you probably wouldn't discover on your own. I mean, it forces you to do things- some you like, some you don't, but you learn from experience and there's a lot that school can expose you to
@Mrparris Actually, I *am* against schools as they currently exist. I'd love to see schools follow the free & democratic school models instead. In essence though, yes, I'm against mandatory schooling & coercion.
Do you really, truly think that in ONE school building you can be exposed to more of the world, than an unschooler can by LIVING & learning *in* the world instead of in a school building?? I've been exposed to so many ideas & things I wouldn't have been in school.
@catzie690, I don't think any thoughtful person would argue that. Hell, I did half my learning in an "unschooled" way as a kid. I arrived at middle school knowing more than most college graduates about 20th century history from reading compilations of New Yorker cartoons.
But I learned plenty at school too. I had great teachers who knew how to make the best of the format and offered terrific courses (such as "Foreign Policy" a semester-long game in which starting WWIII would earn you an F)
@EyeLean5280 It's great you had such positive experiences at school! I'm not against classes or teachers or "structured learning". What I'm against is a lack of choice. I don't believe any schooling should ever be compulsory, & strongly believe that it's an individuals right to choose their own path in life, including their educational path (with the support & assistance of parents, especially for younger kids).
@catzie690 It also seems some what unproductive to me as well...If the majority of people were unschooled, I don't think we'd see anywhere near the amount of engineers or physicists or other jobs that require a large degree of hardcore learning. Not necessarily because of the lesser quality of learning (although I do think that's a factor), but because it takes away the competitiveness and focused goals that school sets for you. I think it would be a bad way to order a modern society.
@Mrparris I think the society we live in is a horrible, fucked up place. I agree that things probably couldn't continue the way they are now if everyone unschooled. And that's a bad thing why?? I find it incredibly sad that our whole society cares more about money & "productivity" than anything else. I care about happiness, & making the world a better place, NOT about "productivity". Thank god I was never in school to be brainwashed into thinking that was what was important in life!!
@catzie690, Yes, there are horrible, fucked-up aspects to our society but I can't agree with painting it in its entirety with that brush. There are wonderful things about our society, too. The most cursory look at how most people have lived through most of history will show that.
Yes, we struggle towards a better civilization, a better way of life. But I can't fault society for not having gotten there yet. I try to contribute to the struggle.
@Mrparris I think that the 'competitiveness and focused goals school sets you' are one of the main problems with schools and a huge part of why there are so many damaged, unhappy, dissatisfied people in our world!
@catzie690 I think it may be a difference of opinion, but I'm also not buying the "I've yet to meet a 'failed' unschooler" point you made. Maybe it's because "failure" means different things to each of us; beyond being literate and happy, I'd consider both "having a well-paid/stable career" and "being a productive member of society" staples of being successful. Or I dunno, maybe I'm just a tool :P
@Mrparris Major difference of opinion. You're talking to an anarchist here who believes in freedom, radical decentralization, & a focus on community and true sustainability. Your view of "success" is not one I'd wish on anyone! I've made the deliberate choice that my time is more important than money & things, so I'm not interested in investing (wasting) my entire life on a "well-paid career" when I could instead live on a small amount of money, yet actually focus on what's important to me.
@Mrparris Being a GOOD person is important. Being "productive" is just serving those in power. I should also point out though, that all the grown unschoolers I've come across do quite well at supporting themselves, & are great people... Can you really say that isn't "successful"?
@catzie690 --Helps more than it hinders. The public education system does fail a lot of people, but I also have no doubt that unschooling does as well. The public school system forces stuff down your throat, so even if you "fail" at that, you have some basis to fall back on, whereas if you're unschooled and *if* you take it for a free ride, what do you have at the end of it? It also helps that you have a network of support; teachers, other students who are in the same boat as you, and you can--
@Mrparris From my experience with both schooled & unschooled people, I have to disagree. For many, many schooled people, they've entirely lost any love of learning or joy in discovery. Learning has become a chore. I also disagree that there's "no doubt" unschooling has failed many as well. In real life, I've met a couple hundred unschoolers. Online, I know even more! I've yet to come across a "failed" unschooler.
@Mrparris If the great majority of what is forced down your throats in school is forgotten (as many adults have said it quickly is, since they remember little from school), then how is it something to "fall back on"? If it's forgotten, it's gone. I don't quite get your "free ride" comment. I feel like unschooling for me has been a very "free ride"! As in something fun done in freedom. I didn't "buckle down" to learn the things I did. I learned them in joy.
@catzie690 --rely on them for help and advice. I suppose you could do that with unschooling too, but it's probably a lot harder to find a network of people all in the same community who are unschooled, and moreover finding a specialist in one particular area you're interested in (Not sure if my argument is becoming tautological at this point <_<). You're obvious a very successful unschooler, but I'm just wondering whether you're the rule or the exception. [Trying to come at it with an open mind]
@Mrparris Why on earth would you assume that an unschoolers network of support must all be unschooled themselves?? Just because your whole network resides in school if you're schooled does not mean it's the same for unschoolers. Unschoolers have the whole world to learn from! They can & do draw on a wide variety of resources and people in their wider community.
Thanks, but my experience has shown I'm the rule. Every grown & teen unschooler I've met has been a capable, "well educated" person.
@Mrparris Another big thing is that unschoolers learn things they may not be interested in when they find a need for it. So, if a job needed skills or knowledge that the individual did not already posses, they'd LEARN it. Isn't that what everyone does with jobs & careers, schooled & unschooled?
@Mrparris I find a big flaw in the comments of many people not familiar with unschooling, like you yourself, is that you assume the outcomes are theoretical, that this is something new. It's not. It's been around since the 70's, & multiple grown unschoolers have shown that they do well if they decide to go to college, & that they have no trouble making a living! Stating that we're wrong about how unschooling works doesn't mean much when I actually *know* the "proof" (grown USers) that it works.
High school is a joke. In retrospect i didn't learn all that much in high school. Plus, i hated it. Theres somthing not right about forcing an adolecent to sit through hours of class while half the class is snoring in the back. I disliked most of my teachers, but the classes that i had an interest in, i exelled. What i remember about highschool was the social experiences. I think i personally would had benefited from unschooling.
Its a controversial subject. I have decided im in favor of the learning method. Im not a total advocate though... What I want to know is, what do you know? Im all for unschooling as long as you are not totally ignorant as a result, which has not been proven to me yet. I think its interesting, but how is your grammer? Do you know ANY history? How about things like algebra or basic problem solving.
@orourkemon15 I find it rather funny that random people regularly think they have a right to ask me, & my sister, to PROVE to them we're knowledgeable. Do I go up to random schooled kids & do that? How would people react to that?? They'd say unschoolers are pretentious, arrogant, & anti-school, of course. Just seeing my sister speak intelligently should be enough of an answer for you. We're both capable, intelligent, well-"educated" people.
@catzie690 okay okay If you went up to me and asked what i know about certain things, i would tell you... Plus i was saying that i think its interesting that u were unschooled. I have a lot of questions about unschooling and am considering it for my unborn child. (I more than likely wont unschool due to a number of factors) but i think in the right situation its a great thing. and im sure, she seems perfectly well-"educated"
@orourkemon15 Your first comment wasn't worded well, & came across as rather rude. I'm sorry if my reaction was a bit aggressive, though. I've been dealing with a lot of negative & downright nasty comments about unschooling lately, so that's where my reaction comes from!
Can you tell from just reading my comments that my grammar isn't bad? And Emi's is slightly better than mine! We're both writers. We've also both always been fascinated by history, with a focus on mythology.
@orourkemon15 Algebra, or any other "higher math", isn't necessary for most people. We've found no need for it in our lives so far, & if at some point we do find a need for it, we'll simply study from books &/or find a tutor. As for problem solving? Problem solving is something you practice daily from simply living life. I can't imagine how anyone would not learn "basic problem solving" unless they literally lived all alone & entirely isolated from the rest of the world!
I'm curious on what your parents do. Do they have a job or business that they attend to or are they working from home? How do they have time and money to educate you? Are they present when you learn? Do they participate in the process? I'm asking this because unschooling doesn't seem to be a viable option for a parents without the proper resources or time.
@XXXAranaXXX My father works outside the home, my mother is a SAHM. For younger children, at least one parent needs to be home. For teens, both parents can work outside the home, & unschooling can still work! I'd like to point out my parents never "educated" me... They supported me as I learned, helped me find resources when needed, answered questions when they could, etc. Parents play an active role, but with older kids/teens, not a *constant* role.
@catzie690 Thanks. Your answer helped. How come you guys don't use a set curriculum so you guys stay competitive? In this current economic market, it's very difficult to have a career or earn a living with a bachelor's degree, let alone a G.E.D. Could an unschooled environment bring about some complacency in educating oneself?
@XXXAranaXXX The idea that the whole point of life is "competition" makes me very sad. I don't have any interest in competing. I do have an interest in living a good life! I know more grown unschoolers in college then not, so if that's what you're worried about, rest assured that unschoolers get into college regularly, & also do really well once there!
@catzie690 i can see where you are comming from but how are you gonna get a job afterwards not attacking you or anything im just curious at first i kind of hated school because i was extemely shy but me comming outta that kind of helped me become a little more competitive and sometimes in life its really helpful im only 14 noticing this
@calfrun27 Unschooling has been around since the 70's, so there are many grown unschoolers, some of whom are even raising (& unschooling) their own family now. I do not know a single grown unschooler who isn't doing just fine in their life! Grown unschoolers have no trouble supporting themselves. Unschooling does not stop anyone from being "competitive", either. I even know unschoolers who've gotten into "top" colleges when they chose to!
@XXXAranaXXX Well, for one, they can't always be present when we learn because we're constantly learning! Having been unschooled my whole life, my natural human capacity to learn has not been obstructed at all. I find myself easily and naturally learning all the time, both intentionally and without even noticing it. Our parents don't 'educate' us, we learn from the entire world! :)
im not gonna turn my nose up at the idea but school teaches you how to survive in the real world school can get you a job school is a big part of the world and not participating is in a way isolating yourself and in the long run will only hurt you yeh there are other experiences in life but you have your whole life after school to experience them
@calfrun27 You're just repeating the same old (wrong) assumption that if you're not in school, you must be isolated. ALL the people in the WHOLE WORLD are inside a school building, so if I'm not in school, how can I possibly see people, right? Wrong. School is isolating. It's one building, with classes and bells and having someone constantly dictate what you have to do. Unschoolers, on the other hand, have the whole world to explore! We're the opposite of isolated.
I think that school teaches you something that you cannot find in a textbook, IE normal relationships-ppl without cloaks. You also both need to seek a speech therapist because you both front your /s/ and /sh/. Great interview otherwise :)
Lol XD. Hmm, I see, school is a place where people who dress in an unusual way are ridiculed for it. Does the curriculum get rid of every slight abnormality in everyone's speech as well, or is a person with a slight lisp ridiculed for that too? Geez, school sounds like a /wonderful/ place! I'm missing out on so much bullying and conformist peer pressure by not going.
(That was *sarcasm* right there, for those who might miss it :P)
Deciding to unschool takes a lot of courage and faith for a parent as it's hard to measure what your children are learning. My wife and I have questioned our choices a number of times especially when friends or family members obviously don't agree with you. When I look at my children I see very interesting & intelligent people who seem to enjoy their life & I have little doubt that they will find a happy road to travel on in their future.
Thank you for posting this video! Your sister Emi is a perfect example of an unschooler--she's so articulate! Very well adjusted and confident, as well as on fire about something like writing. and she's wearing a cloak. It's perfect.
i just wanted to write to say thanks for being confident in the face of the loser-questions people pose. And yeah, just excellent topics addressed in the video...post more??
the advantage of not being locked in a classroom for 4 to 8 hours a day should be obvious right? not sitting at a desk, quiet, unable to move the advantage of having the world at your fingertips or just being able to leave the house and go and observe something directly should be obvious right? it's the difference between prison and freedom. it's good to know you have friends in public shcool so they can have contact with the world at large through you and know how diverse life is or can be!
Awesome interview. Like many have said, people are just not comfortable with an idea that says, "yo....um.... all those years you were in school.... yeah it was kinda pointless." It hits hard, as it did (and still does) with me... but I prefer the truth instead of blissful ignorance. My kids are going to enjoy life.. and make decisions for themselves.
If people didn't tend to react so judgmentally, I think I'd probably feel a bit bad telling them about unschooling, and how pointless their own schooling was/is... I hate the compulsory schooling system so much sometimes, and feel so bad that so many people are forced through it!! I guess that's why I love talking about unschooling so much: I want the freedom I've experienced to be commonplace, not the exception!
Me too, I totally agree. In fact, the main reason I want to be a teacher... is to at least be able to let the kids know that someone there cares about them as individuals... and not what people say they have to learn or be. I really don't know how long I will last like that... lol the educational system is not friendly toward people like me or you. We threaten its very existence... so I just write and hopefully one of my books (when I finish em) makes it big LoL
And I will keep a lookout for future books of yours! ;-) There seems to be so much more information and books out there on unschooling now than there were when I was young... And more and more people are adding to the to the body of resources! It's really rather awesome.
Thanks! Whenever I write the book (which will be based mainly on my experiences in elementary school as a teacher) I'll let you know... but this is gonna be like in 5-10 years.... soooo yeah lol if we both still have youtube accounts you will know about it lol
They get aggressive because they didn't like school either, but they tell themselves they did, because they were forced to go and told it was for their own good.
And when you tell them you don't go to school all these thoughts about how cool that would've been for them, and how horrible it is that they were forced to go pop into their heads, and they feel threatened because they would have to question a lot of things they don't want to question.
Why ppl become aggressive has been discussed multiple times in my house, and we've decided that it basically comes down to this: if they admit we're right, and you really can learn just through living, then every year they spent in school (or every year they're spending in school!) is a waste of time and hard work. Most ppl aren't willing to admit that!
So pretty much what you said, just in different words lol.
Good video, Girls!! I think most of what you address Emily is applicable to most types of homeschooling, even those who "school at home". There's such a misunderstand about how education occurs.
One way to address "how can that possibly work?" I've found is to ask a person if they like to garden, or if you know that they've done something recently that is important.. for example, we just did a BIG learning project on how to sell a house and move to a new province. No classroom needed! LOL!
They are aggressive because they have been taught from a very young age that conformity and obedience to a hierarchy is the correct way to live. For them, there is a standard path set as they enter school for the way they should live the rest of their lives, and to deviate far from that is unthinkable. This rabbit hole is deep, and I don't have time to elaborate further. I am just learning about Unschooling from your channel, and I greatly appreciate it. My children will be unschoolers now.
I think a lot of the aggression and the defensiveness comes down to the fact that if they believe us that we, and many others, do fine without school, it means that *they* would have done fine without school, and to admit that would mean they'd wasted years of their lives!
Also, as you say, any deviation from the standard path is met with aggression, pretty much without fail!
Really glad you're learning from this channel, and want to unschool your kids! :-D Unschooling is great.
Ah, touche! The jealously factor! :) I am fairly jealous myself.
I don't have kids yet per se (I am a counselor at a residential treatment center). Rest asured as I am planning the rest of my life out slowly, this is something i will persue from the very begining.
Awesome Dave, I wish more people were so open minded about it as you are... I was kind of like you... I learned about it, then soon after decided, "this is what I am going to do with my kids".
I can't say I would have always been so open-minded to such ideas. In fact, just last year you may have heard me say that I want my kids to go to public school where they can learn to interact with other appropriately. At the time, although I had put a great deal of time into studying the social sciences, I still did not have a firm grasp on the degree to which conformity encompasses our civilization.
Out of all the immense knowledge I have gained from mentors like Chomsky, Zinn, Quinn, Zerzan, and Jensen, the greatest knowledge I have gained in only the past year through people doing it on their own, taking their lives into their own hands, on their own terms.
Maybe I sound eccentric at this point, but I know catzie690 must have a good idea of just how amazing her opportunity to be a unschooler truly is. If you think about it, the standard schooling system perpetuates cruelty.
Heh same with me, I was looking into attachment parenting and unconditional parenting (alfie kohn) and I still thought unschooling was bad... this was because my experience with homeschooling parents were religious nuts... alas I am a changed man lol
Your videos are a wonderful service to parents and children. Thank you.
creativecompanion 2 weeks ago
I think the reason why people currently in school thinks that they couldnt handle disciplining themselves to actually learn things because public schooling has made kids lazy.
ColdBlankStare 1 month ago
Even though I'm sure you're very smart, I think one major problem wit unschooling is the "letting kids only learn what they want to learn" thing. In real life, you have to do lots of things that you really don't want to do. And you're going to have to deal with people vastly different from you, which is one good thing about public schools. It forces you to deal with the unmotivated and annoying. And I won't say anything about the cape because, well, I'm sure you're old enough to regret it now :)
Rosebunse 7 months ago
@Rosebunse Still rocking the cloak, actually! In fact, I plan to make myself a new one for this winter, a nice long cream one with a burgundy lining ;)
As for the rest of your comment (the parts that aren't just blatantly snarky), I think you're missing the point. Unschooling is raising a kid in 'real life', letting them learn through interactions with the 'real world'. Putting a kid in school is putting them into a completely unnatural environment.
sarsan207 7 months ago
@Rosebunse Where else in life will you be forced to spend your entire day, six days a week, with a group of people exactly the same age as you? In the 'real world' you get to deal with people vastly different from yourself: senior citizens, young children, store clerks, street performers, businessmen (and women), people of different backgrounds and cultures and ages and professions. Trapped in a classroom you get to deal with people your own age,
sarsan207 7 months ago
@Rosebunse from the area you live in, who are currently going through a similar life experience to you: being at the same school every day.
In 'real life' you have to do some things that you don't want to, which everyone learns by living every day in their real lives in the real world. No one needs the concept artificially forced on them by parents and teachers arbitrarily making them do things they don't want to do.
sarsan207 7 months ago
@Rosebunse The real value is in learning to make yourself do some things you don't want to do if it'll help you achieve the things you do want, not in being forced to live your entire childhood and adolescent life doing whatever the school officials have decided you should.
sarsan207 7 months ago
@Rosebunse (Also, as a side note, people in school also have 'real' lives. I don't see how anyone can have a fake life. Unfortunately, our school system is part of the 'real world', and as such we all spend the days of our real lives living in the real world.)
sarsan207 7 months ago
@sarsan207 Well, when I said "real world", I meant outside of any type of schooling period. What I meant was, one good thing about public schooling that you may not get from home schooling is that it forces you to interact with people you probably wouldn't otherwise. I don't mean through volunteering, which is great, but sometimes you need to deal with different people from different backgrounds in a more "level" environment. Most homeschooled people I know are rather lacking in that area.
Rosebunse 7 months ago
@Rosebunse Um, I never mentioned volunteering, if you thought that's what I was talking about I have no idea why...
Anyway, once again, the actual 'real world', outside of a school, is pretty good ground to interact with other people. I think a big problem about school is that it /forces/ you to interact with people you don't want to, day after day, without you having any choice in the mater.
sarsan207 7 months ago
@Rosebunse People have a right to choose who they spend their time with, and even if a kid is getting bullied they still don't have the option of just never seeing the bully again. They have to go back every single day. That sort of bizarre, forced social interaction isn't natural or healthy at all. The only place where you're just forced to endure the company of the same group of people day after day, regardless of how poorly they might treat you, is in a prison.
sarsan207 7 months ago
@Rosebunse (The comparison may seem extreme, but it's true.)
sarsan207 7 months ago
You are so pretty. and the cape made me laugh haha! :)
VickyVicVicx 8 months ago
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VickyVicVicx 8 months ago
Horrible social skills
stephaniebarney 9 months ago
@stephaniebarney Really? I'm so sorry. But you shouldn't say that about yourself... :) I hope you develop some soon ;)
VickyVicVicx 8 months ago
@VickyVicVicx yup im taking about myself way to go........All joking aside homeschool kids have horrible social skills.
stephaniebarney 7 months ago
The problem is that most kids just sit there and watch TV and play video game all day. Also their social skills are almost always worse. The only way I believe unschooling work work is if their parents are wealth and can expose them to many things.
Georgeqaws 10 months ago
@Georgeqaws #1: "most kids just sit there and watch TV and play video game all day." I think the most concise way I can say this is "you're wrong." Kids, given freedom over their own lives & learning, might play video games and watch TV sometimes, but that's certainly not all they'll do (I would get into how TV & video games are not the horrible things people make them out to be, but I think a YT comment is too limited for that!). Learning is fun if it's never made into a chore!
catzie690 10 months ago
@Georgeqaws #2: Social skills. Again, you're showing your ignorance. If you've even met an actual unschooler in your life, I'd be surprised, never mind enough of us to make sweeping statements like "unschooler's social skills are ALMOST ALWAYS worse!" Social skills are just another skill in life that comes more easily to some than others: & I've seen absolutely no difference in that between unschoolers and regular schoolers, & unlike you, I do have extensive experience with both!
catzie690 10 months ago
@Georgeqaws #3: "USing only works if you're wealthy." Well, guess what, my family is firmly in the lower middle class, always has been, & unschooling "worked" quite fine for us. Life is all you need to learn, & provides more than enough people, information sources, & experiences whether or not you have much money.
Spouting off ignorant shit you know nothing about just isn't a good idea, 7 makes you sound, well, ignorant!
catzie690 10 months ago
looks like a teenager and still wearing a cape. :)
littleseamstress 10 months ago
@littleseamstress I am a teenager, and planning on wearing capes until I'm senior citizen :)
sarsan207 7 months ago
Lol Lord of the Rings is not real...
xBloodXGusherx 1 year ago
@xBloodXGusherx I think everyone is aware of that... Was that supposed to be a dig at the fact my sis is wearing a cloak in this video? Because really, it's not a very good insult, considering cloaks are awesome! ;-)
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690 Lol they are i just thought it was kind of random and funny she was wearing a cloak. No hard feelings at all.
xBloodXGusherx 1 year ago
@xBloodXGusherx Then I'm sorry I thought there were! It's just that several people have made snarky comments about the cloak that were less than nice... Haha, yeah, I was really amused that she was wearing a cloak for this interview. :-P
catzie690 1 year ago
I was unschooled - I am surrounded by graduate students, when I meet new people they are shocked that I have never been to college and that I was left to teach myself with some homeschooling, as I am often more intelligent or educated about many things than they are =\
I persue higher education with the unschool method - I don't have a degree, but degrees are often useless in America these days. Employers respect experience, knowledge and confidence before 'education' on paper
eruanion 1 year ago
Yay! I love neopets!! On it right now actually lol
Littleone89 1 year ago
@EyeLean5280, "Education to me, and probably to most, means an acquired body of knowledge about the world, including human accomplishments. Understanding the effects of geology on climate...must include such things." Do you have research to back up your claim that most people would agree with your definition? Really now. And who says (except for you) that education must include the effects off geology on climate? That is limiting at best...you need a crash course on "live and let live".
ksopik 1 year ago
@hannabthemd, Your comment was absolutely hysterical to me! "You can memorize and spit out random, un-useful facts all you want, but you can't talk in-depth about one subject"!?!? What do you think the nature of schooling is??? Teaching kids to memorize and spit out random, unuseful facts...and what do you think this brilliant young woman is doing in this interview except talking IN-DEPTH about one subject? You can't see the forest for the trees!
ksopik 1 year ago 2
You can read something and learn about it. Anyone can do that. But do these kids take the time to UNDERSTAND what they're reading and learning? You can memorize and spit out random, un-useful facts all you want, but you can't talk in depth about one subject...
hannabthemd 1 year ago
Cool video, the more information out there on homeschooling and unschooling, the better!
Yakriiii 1 year ago 2
Everything she says is SO speculative. She says that she probably would not have gotten into writing if she was in school. How would she know that she would not have gotten into writing if she was in school? I have TONS of creative friends in highschool, some are even published. She makes it sound like school sucks peoples souls away. I'm sure schooling is not for everyone just as I'm sure unschooling is not for everyone either. I believe in hybrid approaches not radical approaches.
jazzmatik 1 year ago
@jazzmatik Hey there, thanks for the comment! I'm 'Emi', the girl interviewed in this video.
I am a bit speculative in the video because, not having gone to school, I can never be positive about what I'd be like if I had. But I'd say I have a better idea of how I might have been than anyone else does, and knowing myself I highly doubt that I would be the creative person I am today. I'm naturally prone to overworking myself and getting too caught up in ultimately unimportant details, (continued)
sarsan207 1 year ago
@jazzmatik and if I had gone to school I think I would have wound up as a bossy, uptight perfectionist, not as the relaxed, happy, open-minded person I am today. There are certainly plenty of creative people in school, but judging from my own experiences and the experiences of those who have 'dropped out' of school and become unschoolers, there are plenty more people who would be wonderfully creative if given the chance.
The big problem is that schools are considered mandatory, (continued)
sarsan207 1 year ago
@jazzmatik and people are forced to attend them. Schools are not for everyone is a very accurate (and easy) thing to say, but most people believe that schools are. If people are shown the many options for 'education' that are open to them and given a real choice in the matter, then school can be a helpful, enjoyable path for some people. If people are forced into it, it really is a harmful thing to most.
sarsan207 1 year ago
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EyeLean5280 1 year ago
@EyeLean5280 You should always keep in mind when talking to unschoolers that it's a well connected community. I know Holly Dodd personally, & find your comment rather insulting. You can hardly know what someone is like or what they know or who they are from a 5 minute YouTube clip. Also, raising up one person by putting down another just isn't nice.
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690, I'm sorry if you found my remark insulting. I'm not surprised you know Holly - I'm in the Waldorf community, another very tightly-knit group.
I'm afraid I'm going to stick to my guns, here. I've said on her thread that Holly comes off as secure, charming and sweet, that she may be very intelligent, as her mother says, and that she may very well succeed in whatever she tries to do.
BUT if she is an educated and articulate girl, the video simply does not reveal that about her.
EyeLean5280 1 year ago
@EyeLean5280, Nonetheless, I'll remove my original comment.
EyeLean5280 1 year ago
@EyeLean5280 Also, I don't really see "education" as something separate from life, or something that should, or can, be judged as a separate aspect of an overall person. She's self-confident, happy, articulate. She's also intelligent & capable. That's it. Isn't that supposed to be the whole point of education, anyway?
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690, I appreciate your outlook and understand what you're getting at. I disagree about the "point of education," though. I can very easily imagine a self-confident, happy, articulate, intelligent, capable caveman (or woman).
"Education," to me, and probably to most, means an acquired body of knowledge about the world, including human accomplishments. Understanding the effects of geology upon climate, for example (of course it means much more as well, but must include such things).
EyeLean5280 1 year ago
@EyeLean5280 And do you know how much had to be learned to live as a "cave(wo)man"? All the knowledge of plants & animals & environment, tool & medicine making & shelter building... Honestly, I know of people now who are gaining these types of skills & plan on living in nature. They're very well educated for the life they've chosen.
I consider education the necessary knowledge & skills to live a fulfilling life. What that might mean is different from individual to individual.
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690, yes of course I know (and now I'm finding *your* remark a bit insulting - maybe you should bear in mind that posters here are as intelligent and informed as you). But there are differences between a cavewoman's life and mine that are all the difference in the world to me.
For one thing, I'm 46 years old. As a cave woman, I'd be long dead now, and more than half my kids would likely have died in childhood. Neither is very appealing to me. I like cities. Cavepeople didn't have them...
EyeLean5280 1 year ago
...I'm not generally fond of superstition or giant predators. Paleolithic life abounded with both.
I'm a lover of art. There is some very great artwork from the cave days, but what would be the chances of my seeing anything created more than 20 miles or so from my home range? I might see only five or six top-quality pieces in my whole life - a very diminished existence to me!
Mozart's "Magic Flute" is pretty cool, but impossible in 15,000 BCE
I could go on but you get the picture.
EyeLean5280 1 year ago
It is education that separates us from the pre-urban societies of the paleo and neolithic periods. Without the passing on and building upon of acquired knowledge, most of us would never have existed, considering the mortality rates of hunter-gatherers.
Schools fill that function for most, and for good historical reasons. They could be vastly improved and kudos to anybody who finds a better way, but let's be honest and admit they don't destroy everyone who comes through the system.
EyeLean5280 1 year ago
@EyeLean5280 I have found that advanced education, the kind you can find in college education and beyond can be pretty useful at times, especially if you lack a starting point for yourself education, it can be a good groundwork.
School, pre-college, however, is entirely pointless. Simply in the sense that it is unnecessary.
Some system being available for voluntary early education could be beneficial for some people, but the current system doesn't fulfill that purpose.
Yakriiii 1 year ago
@EyeLean5280 I don't consider my remarks to be insulting at all. Maybe you read a tone into them that wasn't meant to be there.
My point was that to be educated is to have the skills & knowledge needed to live in your time & place, & for the life you've chosen.
Your comments feel very prejudiced against indigenous peoples to me, as you've seemingly lumped all hunter-gatherers throughout time together & dismissed them all. That's a hell of a lot of amazing peoples & cultures.
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690, Maybe I did, or maybe it could have been worded better. Whatever.
I'm surprised you're reading prejudice into my comment about indigenous peoples (since my very first remark about them was so glowing), but since I wasn't clear, I'll address your misconception about me and say I certainly do understand the amazingness of people and cultures not my own.
But I also understand the amazingness of the culture you and I share - which you do not seem to, according to many posts here.
EyeLean5280 1 year ago
But before you and I invest any more time in our conversation, I must ask: do you have any real interest in getting to know my point of view, of finding any common ground or mutual sympathy? Because if you don't (and I'm getting no sense at all that you do), we'd be wasting our time to continue.
EyeLean5280 1 year ago
@EyeLean5280 I have no intention of getting into a debate, as I really dislike debating, but your comments on all non-civilized peoples sound like they're based more on stereotypes than anything (from my own minimal research on anthropology, & from hearing much from friends very seriously into anthropology!).
But really, I think it's time for me to back out of this discussion. Thank you for your comments, I'm glad you found the video interesting! :-) I hope to do more interview vids in future..
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690, I see. I guess we've arrived at the same conclusion for the same reasons. Looking at each other, we each see a bigot.
Too bad. We're probably both wrong.
EyeLean5280 1 year ago
at least I know you are.
EyeLean5280 1 year ago
@EyeLean5280 My sincere apologies. I totally misread your last couple of comments (skimming over them too fast & multi-tasking) to read that you were saying I was a bigot, when in fact you were saying that you knew I was wrong in thinking *you* "were a bigot". Still don't really want to continue the discussion, but wanted to apologize for that.
catzie690 1 year ago
WOW! you sound way smarter and well spoken than most kids in college! good job!
billholb1974 1 year ago
Ok, so she found out about herself...?? Like what? That she likes to pretend she goes to Hogwarts?
I found who I was and I spent many happy years in public education.
hannabthemd 1 year ago
@hannabthemd Good for you, I'm glad you're happy! It's a shame, though, that you never discovered the joy of respecting other people and their choices in life. It's also a shame that you learned to judge people on such trivial things as what clothes they choose to wear.
(Cloaks are warm, comfortable, cozier than sweaters and can double as blankets! You should try one some time ;D)
sarsan207 1 year ago
@sarsan207 As you live in your little make-believe world, I'll be in the REAL WORLD working and making a living for myself.
hannabthemd 1 year ago
@hannabthemd I've lived my whole life in the 'real world', never trapped within the artificial confines of a school environment. I'm already making money myself, and since I'm still living with my family I'm using that money for travel :)
sarsan207 1 year ago 2
@sarsan207 Then I suggest you go to Italy. Best food you can find.
hannabthemd 1 year ago
@hannabthemd Haha, good food, but not where I'm aiming for. I have a love of Japan, the culture, history, natural world... I'm working on learning the language and researching all those details I need to know to make my trip a success :D
sarsan207 1 year ago
And the things about conformity are frustrating as well, since uniforms are compulsory around here, everyone thinks and acts the same, but during my time in state school, I really just refused to fit in, and now that I do my own thing with no-one to really 'copy' off, I'm my own person with my own style, and people really notice my individuality, since I'm not in school they're not so hostile about it, it's kind of strange but also really cool!
BozzyxThexScizor 1 year ago 2
As a homeschooled (Unschooling, not heard that term sorry) child myself I can really relate to this interview, the stuff about conformity and questioning is so true!
I go to a few drama groups and almost every week I get the same questions, but since they all go to a regular state school, it's almost impossible to explain since they've only seen one side of the spectrum, they can't really understand it.
(Continued in next comment)
BozzyxThexScizor 1 year ago
duuude.... you need to cut off those strings and find a cool brooch! that would be awesome to have one like in LotR...
1androo2 1 year ago
@1androo2 Haha, it was actually made originally for a Gimli costume for halloween!
catzie690 1 year ago
@1androo2 It would be awesome if I had a brooch like that! Unfortunately I have yet to find one D: The strings do give it the advantage of being super fast and easy to take on and off, though :D...
sarsan207 1 year ago
Pretty informative interview; I was curious to hear the opinion of someone who was actually unschooled on the matter. The most damning flaw I keep seeing with people who are unschooled is this "If I wanted to learn, I'd just pick up a book and learn" mentality that seriously underestimates the complexity of MOST of what you'd learn in high school. Also the "I don't need this, that and the other" attitude that will almost certainly prevent you from advancing beyond a certain stage in most careers
Mrparris 1 year ago
@Mrparris As unschoolers, that's what we DO! When we're interested, we pick up a book (or look it up online, or find someone who knows about it, or sign up for a class). Of COURSE when I want to learn something I just pick up a book. Schools like people to think that they hold all the knowledge: that things are just so complicated, you HAVE to go to school to be "taught" about them. Unschooling proves this isn't true.
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690 I'm not undermining the intelligence of anyone who's unschooled, but in my experience it just isn't that easy to learn by reading straight from books. Maybe it is for you, but I'd be screwed if I didn't have teachers to regularly go to for help. I don't doubt that there have been a ton of unschoolers who have gone on to be successful, nor am I ignorant enough to think that this is a "new" phenomenon (which is what the media seems to think :S), but I think the school environment---
Mrparris 1 year ago
@Mrparris We don't read straight from books on all things. If we need help, we ask! Unschoolers sometimes even go to tutors or take a class, if they want to. The difference is that those things are always a CHOICE.
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690 Ahh, I see. So your argument isn't against the public school system, but against mandatory education in shcools? I agree that school can wear away at your love of learning by repeatedly making you study something you have no interest in, but it also exposes you to a ton of new things as well, things you probably wouldn't discover on your own. I mean, it forces you to do things- some you like, some you don't, but you learn from experience and there's a lot that school can expose you to
Mrparris 1 year ago
@Mrparris Actually, I *am* against schools as they currently exist. I'd love to see schools follow the free & democratic school models instead. In essence though, yes, I'm against mandatory schooling & coercion.
Do you really, truly think that in ONE school building you can be exposed to more of the world, than an unschooler can by LIVING & learning *in* the world instead of in a school building?? I've been exposed to so many ideas & things I wouldn't have been in school.
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690, I don't think any thoughtful person would argue that. Hell, I did half my learning in an "unschooled" way as a kid. I arrived at middle school knowing more than most college graduates about 20th century history from reading compilations of New Yorker cartoons.
But I learned plenty at school too. I had great teachers who knew how to make the best of the format and offered terrific courses (such as "Foreign Policy" a semester-long game in which starting WWIII would earn you an F)
EyeLean5280 1 year ago
@EyeLean5280 It's great you had such positive experiences at school! I'm not against classes or teachers or "structured learning". What I'm against is a lack of choice. I don't believe any schooling should ever be compulsory, & strongly believe that it's an individuals right to choose their own path in life, including their educational path (with the support & assistance of parents, especially for younger kids).
catzie690 1 year ago
@Mrparris I've done some things that weren't fun, that I didn't actively enjoy, but the big different was that I CHOSE to do those things.
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690 It also seems some what unproductive to me as well...If the majority of people were unschooled, I don't think we'd see anywhere near the amount of engineers or physicists or other jobs that require a large degree of hardcore learning. Not necessarily because of the lesser quality of learning (although I do think that's a factor), but because it takes away the competitiveness and focused goals that school sets for you. I think it would be a bad way to order a modern society.
Mrparris 1 year ago
@Mrparris I think the society we live in is a horrible, fucked up place. I agree that things probably couldn't continue the way they are now if everyone unschooled. And that's a bad thing why?? I find it incredibly sad that our whole society cares more about money & "productivity" than anything else. I care about happiness, & making the world a better place, NOT about "productivity". Thank god I was never in school to be brainwashed into thinking that was what was important in life!!
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690, Yes, there are horrible, fucked-up aspects to our society but I can't agree with painting it in its entirety with that brush. There are wonderful things about our society, too. The most cursory look at how most people have lived through most of history will show that.
Yes, we struggle towards a better civilization, a better way of life. But I can't fault society for not having gotten there yet. I try to contribute to the struggle.
EyeLean5280 1 year ago
@Mrparris I think that the 'competitiveness and focused goals school sets you' are one of the main problems with schools and a huge part of why there are so many damaged, unhappy, dissatisfied people in our world!
sarsan207 1 year ago
@catzie690 I think it may be a difference of opinion, but I'm also not buying the "I've yet to meet a 'failed' unschooler" point you made. Maybe it's because "failure" means different things to each of us; beyond being literate and happy, I'd consider both "having a well-paid/stable career" and "being a productive member of society" staples of being successful. Or I dunno, maybe I'm just a tool :P
Mrparris 1 year ago
@Mrparris Major difference of opinion. You're talking to an anarchist here who believes in freedom, radical decentralization, & a focus on community and true sustainability. Your view of "success" is not one I'd wish on anyone! I've made the deliberate choice that my time is more important than money & things, so I'm not interested in investing (wasting) my entire life on a "well-paid career" when I could instead live on a small amount of money, yet actually focus on what's important to me.
catzie690 1 year ago
@Mrparris Being a GOOD person is important. Being "productive" is just serving those in power. I should also point out though, that all the grown unschoolers I've come across do quite well at supporting themselves, & are great people... Can you really say that isn't "successful"?
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690, I know what you're getting at but I don't agree that being "productive" has to mean serving those in power.
EyeLean5280 1 year ago
@catzie690 --Helps more than it hinders. The public education system does fail a lot of people, but I also have no doubt that unschooling does as well. The public school system forces stuff down your throat, so even if you "fail" at that, you have some basis to fall back on, whereas if you're unschooled and *if* you take it for a free ride, what do you have at the end of it? It also helps that you have a network of support; teachers, other students who are in the same boat as you, and you can--
Mrparris 1 year ago
@Mrparris From my experience with both schooled & unschooled people, I have to disagree. For many, many schooled people, they've entirely lost any love of learning or joy in discovery. Learning has become a chore. I also disagree that there's "no doubt" unschooling has failed many as well. In real life, I've met a couple hundred unschoolers. Online, I know even more! I've yet to come across a "failed" unschooler.
catzie690 1 year ago
@Mrparris If the great majority of what is forced down your throats in school is forgotten (as many adults have said it quickly is, since they remember little from school), then how is it something to "fall back on"? If it's forgotten, it's gone. I don't quite get your "free ride" comment. I feel like unschooling for me has been a very "free ride"! As in something fun done in freedom. I didn't "buckle down" to learn the things I did. I learned them in joy.
catzie690 1 year ago
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Mrparris 1 year ago
@catzie690 --rely on them for help and advice. I suppose you could do that with unschooling too, but it's probably a lot harder to find a network of people all in the same community who are unschooled, and moreover finding a specialist in one particular area you're interested in (Not sure if my argument is becoming tautological at this point <_<). You're obvious a very successful unschooler, but I'm just wondering whether you're the rule or the exception. [Trying to come at it with an open mind]
Mrparris 1 year ago
@Mrparris Why on earth would you assume that an unschoolers network of support must all be unschooled themselves?? Just because your whole network resides in school if you're schooled does not mean it's the same for unschoolers. Unschoolers have the whole world to learn from! They can & do draw on a wide variety of resources and people in their wider community.
Thanks, but my experience has shown I'm the rule. Every grown & teen unschooler I've met has been a capable, "well educated" person.
catzie690 1 year ago
@Mrparris Another big thing is that unschoolers learn things they may not be interested in when they find a need for it. So, if a job needed skills or knowledge that the individual did not already posses, they'd LEARN it. Isn't that what everyone does with jobs & careers, schooled & unschooled?
catzie690 1 year ago
@Mrparris I find a big flaw in the comments of many people not familiar with unschooling, like you yourself, is that you assume the outcomes are theoretical, that this is something new. It's not. It's been around since the 70's, & multiple grown unschoolers have shown that they do well if they decide to go to college, & that they have no trouble making a living! Stating that we're wrong about how unschooling works doesn't mean much when I actually *know* the "proof" (grown USers) that it works.
catzie690 1 year ago
High school is a joke. In retrospect i didn't learn all that much in high school. Plus, i hated it. Theres somthing not right about forcing an adolecent to sit through hours of class while half the class is snoring in the back. I disliked most of my teachers, but the classes that i had an interest in, i exelled. What i remember about highschool was the social experiences. I think i personally would had benefited from unschooling.
orourkemon15 1 year ago
Its a controversial subject. I have decided im in favor of the learning method. Im not a total advocate though... What I want to know is, what do you know? Im all for unschooling as long as you are not totally ignorant as a result, which has not been proven to me yet. I think its interesting, but how is your grammer? Do you know ANY history? How about things like algebra or basic problem solving.
orourkemon15 1 year ago
@orourkemon15 I find it rather funny that random people regularly think they have a right to ask me, & my sister, to PROVE to them we're knowledgeable. Do I go up to random schooled kids & do that? How would people react to that?? They'd say unschoolers are pretentious, arrogant, & anti-school, of course. Just seeing my sister speak intelligently should be enough of an answer for you. We're both capable, intelligent, well-"educated" people.
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690 okay okay If you went up to me and asked what i know about certain things, i would tell you... Plus i was saying that i think its interesting that u were unschooled. I have a lot of questions about unschooling and am considering it for my unborn child. (I more than likely wont unschool due to a number of factors) but i think in the right situation its a great thing. and im sure, she seems perfectly well-"educated"
orourkemon15 1 year ago
@orourkemon15 Your first comment wasn't worded well, & came across as rather rude. I'm sorry if my reaction was a bit aggressive, though. I've been dealing with a lot of negative & downright nasty comments about unschooling lately, so that's where my reaction comes from!
Can you tell from just reading my comments that my grammar isn't bad? And Emi's is slightly better than mine! We're both writers. We've also both always been fascinated by history, with a focus on mythology.
catzie690 1 year ago
@orourkemon15 Algebra, or any other "higher math", isn't necessary for most people. We've found no need for it in our lives so far, & if at some point we do find a need for it, we'll simply study from books &/or find a tutor. As for problem solving? Problem solving is something you practice daily from simply living life. I can't imagine how anyone would not learn "basic problem solving" unless they literally lived all alone & entirely isolated from the rest of the world!
catzie690 1 year ago
I like the cape.
psyjax 1 year ago
@psyjax Haha, I think her cape is pretty cool too. ;-)
catzie690 1 year ago
@psyjax its a cloak
1androo2 1 year ago
I'm curious on what your parents do. Do they have a job or business that they attend to or are they working from home? How do they have time and money to educate you? Are they present when you learn? Do they participate in the process? I'm asking this because unschooling doesn't seem to be a viable option for a parents without the proper resources or time.
XXXAranaXXX 1 year ago
@XXXAranaXXX My father works outside the home, my mother is a SAHM. For younger children, at least one parent needs to be home. For teens, both parents can work outside the home, & unschooling can still work! I'd like to point out my parents never "educated" me... They supported me as I learned, helped me find resources when needed, answered questions when they could, etc. Parents play an active role, but with older kids/teens, not a *constant* role.
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690 Thanks. Your answer helped. How come you guys don't use a set curriculum so you guys stay competitive? In this current economic market, it's very difficult to have a career or earn a living with a bachelor's degree, let alone a G.E.D. Could an unschooled environment bring about some complacency in educating oneself?
XXXAranaXXX 1 year ago
@XXXAranaXXX The idea that the whole point of life is "competition" makes me very sad. I don't have any interest in competing. I do have an interest in living a good life! I know more grown unschoolers in college then not, so if that's what you're worried about, rest assured that unschoolers get into college regularly, & also do really well once there!
catzie690 1 year ago
@catzie690 i can see where you are comming from but how are you gonna get a job afterwards not attacking you or anything im just curious at first i kind of hated school because i was extemely shy but me comming outta that kind of helped me become a little more competitive and sometimes in life its really helpful im only 14 noticing this
calfrun27 1 year ago
@calfrun27 Unschooling has been around since the 70's, so there are many grown unschoolers, some of whom are even raising (& unschooling) their own family now. I do not know a single grown unschooler who isn't doing just fine in their life! Grown unschoolers have no trouble supporting themselves. Unschooling does not stop anyone from being "competitive", either. I even know unschoolers who've gotten into "top" colleges when they chose to!
catzie690 1 year ago
@XXXAranaXXX Well, for one, they can't always be present when we learn because we're constantly learning! Having been unschooled my whole life, my natural human capacity to learn has not been obstructed at all. I find myself easily and naturally learning all the time, both intentionally and without even noticing it. Our parents don't 'educate' us, we learn from the entire world! :)
sarsan207 1 year ago
im not gonna turn my nose up at the idea but school teaches you how to survive in the real world school can get you a job school is a big part of the world and not participating is in a way isolating yourself and in the long run will only hurt you yeh there are other experiences in life but you have your whole life after school to experience them
calfrun27 1 year ago
@calfrun27 You're just repeating the same old (wrong) assumption that if you're not in school, you must be isolated. ALL the people in the WHOLE WORLD are inside a school building, so if I'm not in school, how can I possibly see people, right? Wrong. School is isolating. It's one building, with classes and bells and having someone constantly dictate what you have to do. Unschoolers, on the other hand, have the whole world to explore! We're the opposite of isolated.
catzie690 1 year ago
I think that school teaches you something that you cannot find in a textbook, IE normal relationships-ppl without cloaks. You also both need to seek a speech therapist because you both front your /s/ and /sh/. Great interview otherwise :)
XchelsX14X 1 year ago
@XchelsX14X
Lol XD. Hmm, I see, school is a place where people who dress in an unusual way are ridiculed for it. Does the curriculum get rid of every slight abnormality in everyone's speech as well, or is a person with a slight lisp ridiculed for that too? Geez, school sounds like a /wonderful/ place! I'm missing out on so much bullying and conformist peer pressure by not going.
(That was *sarcasm* right there, for those who might miss it :P)
sarsan207 1 year ago
Deciding to unschool takes a lot of courage and faith for a parent as it's hard to measure what your children are learning. My wife and I have questioned our choices a number of times especially when friends or family members obviously don't agree with you. When I look at my children I see very interesting & intelligent people who seem to enjoy their life & I have little doubt that they will find a happy road to travel on in their future.
tedlutter 2 years ago
Thank you for posting this video! Your sister Emi is a perfect example of an unschooler--she's so articulate! Very well adjusted and confident, as well as on fire about something like writing. and she's wearing a cloak. It's perfect.
i just wanted to write to say thanks for being confident in the face of the loser-questions people pose. And yeah, just excellent topics addressed in the video...post more??
TheOtherCounselor11 2 years ago 6
the advantage of not being locked in a classroom for 4 to 8 hours a day should be obvious right? not sitting at a desk, quiet, unable to move the advantage of having the world at your fingertips or just being able to leave the house and go and observe something directly should be obvious right? it's the difference between prison and freedom. it's good to know you have friends in public shcool so they can have contact with the world at large through you and know how diverse life is or can be!
bbbleaver 2 years ago 2
Very jealous of Emi. I write too and enjoy RPGs, but don't get enough time due to schoolwork.
MetaCraken 2 years ago
Awesome interview. Like many have said, people are just not comfortable with an idea that says, "yo....um.... all those years you were in school.... yeah it was kinda pointless." It hits hard, as it did (and still does) with me... but I prefer the truth instead of blissful ignorance. My kids are going to enjoy life.. and make decisions for themselves.
UnschoolingEagle 2 years ago 2
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it! :-)
If people didn't tend to react so judgmentally, I think I'd probably feel a bit bad telling them about unschooling, and how pointless their own schooling was/is... I hate the compulsory schooling system so much sometimes, and feel so bad that so many people are forced through it!! I guess that's why I love talking about unschooling so much: I want the freedom I've experienced to be commonplace, not the exception!
catzie690 2 years ago
Me too, I totally agree. In fact, the main reason I want to be a teacher... is to at least be able to let the kids know that someone there cares about them as individuals... and not what people say they have to learn or be. I really don't know how long I will last like that... lol the educational system is not friendly toward people like me or you. We threaten its very existence... so I just write and hopefully one of my books (when I finish em) makes it big LoL
UnschoolingEagle 2 years ago
I think it's awesome that you want to do that!!
And I will keep a lookout for future books of yours! ;-) There seems to be so much more information and books out there on unschooling now than there were when I was young... And more and more people are adding to the to the body of resources! It's really rather awesome.
catzie690 2 years ago
Thanks! Whenever I write the book (which will be based mainly on my experiences in elementary school as a teacher) I'll let you know... but this is gonna be like in 5-10 years.... soooo yeah lol if we both still have youtube accounts you will know about it lol
UnschoolingEagle 2 years ago
Haha, sounds good! ;-)
catzie690 2 years ago
I think School is the "Jesus" (if you will) of the religion of modern democracy.
I wonder if being unschooled is like being an atheist in a very religious place.
Mastikator 2 years ago
They get aggressive because they didn't like school either, but they tell themselves they did, because they were forced to go and told it was for their own good.
And when you tell them you don't go to school all these thoughts about how cool that would've been for them, and how horrible it is that they were forced to go pop into their heads, and they feel threatened because they would have to question a lot of things they don't want to question.
zuiprax 2 years ago
Why ppl become aggressive has been discussed multiple times in my house, and we've decided that it basically comes down to this: if they admit we're right, and you really can learn just through living, then every year they spent in school (or every year they're spending in school!) is a waste of time and hard work. Most ppl aren't willing to admit that!
So pretty much what you said, just in different words lol.
catzie690 2 years ago
This is a great interview!! Go Emi!
herecomesthsun 2 years ago
Thanks Bethany! :-D
catzie690 2 years ago
Good video, Girls!! I think most of what you address Emily is applicable to most types of homeschooling, even those who "school at home". There's such a misunderstand about how education occurs.
One way to address "how can that possibly work?" I've found is to ask a person if they like to garden, or if you know that they've done something recently that is important.. for example, we just did a BIG learning project on how to sell a house and move to a new province. No classroom needed! LOL!
4my4blessings 2 years ago
Great interview. 5*/fav
RowanFortuneWood 2 years ago 4
They are aggressive because they have been taught from a very young age that conformity and obedience to a hierarchy is the correct way to live. For them, there is a standard path set as they enter school for the way they should live the rest of their lives, and to deviate far from that is unthinkable. This rabbit hole is deep, and I don't have time to elaborate further. I am just learning about Unschooling from your channel, and I greatly appreciate it. My children will be unschoolers now.
brokendave 2 years ago 2
I think a lot of the aggression and the defensiveness comes down to the fact that if they believe us that we, and many others, do fine without school, it means that *they* would have done fine without school, and to admit that would mean they'd wasted years of their lives!
Also, as you say, any deviation from the standard path is met with aggression, pretty much without fail!
Really glad you're learning from this channel, and want to unschool your kids! :-D Unschooling is great.
catzie690 2 years ago
Ah, touche! The jealously factor! :) I am fairly jealous myself.
I don't have kids yet per se (I am a counselor at a residential treatment center). Rest asured as I am planning the rest of my life out slowly, this is something i will persue from the very begining.
brokendave 2 years ago
Awesome Dave, I wish more people were so open minded about it as you are... I was kind of like you... I learned about it, then soon after decided, "this is what I am going to do with my kids".
UnschoolingEagle 2 years ago
I can't say I would have always been so open-minded to such ideas. In fact, just last year you may have heard me say that I want my kids to go to public school where they can learn to interact with other appropriately. At the time, although I had put a great deal of time into studying the social sciences, I still did not have a firm grasp on the degree to which conformity encompasses our civilization.
brokendave 2 years ago
Out of all the immense knowledge I have gained from mentors like Chomsky, Zinn, Quinn, Zerzan, and Jensen, the greatest knowledge I have gained in only the past year through people doing it on their own, taking their lives into their own hands, on their own terms.
Maybe I sound eccentric at this point, but I know catzie690 must have a good idea of just how amazing her opportunity to be a unschooler truly is. If you think about it, the standard schooling system perpetuates cruelty.
brokendave 2 years ago
Heh same with me, I was looking into attachment parenting and unconditional parenting (alfie kohn) and I still thought unschooling was bad... this was because my experience with homeschooling parents were religious nuts... alas I am a changed man lol
UnschoolingEagle 2 years ago
Thanks!
Nielsio 2 years ago 2
Thanks for uploading this. I enjoy your videos.
anastasiaw 2 years ago 4