Star Trek Bridge Commander: Star Trek VS Star Wars I

[1337soldiahs]

Oh come on, a whole bunch of large cruisers vs 12 small, one-man fighters?

Dude that's unfair, it's like an ant hill versus five guys with flamethrowers.

[heresjonny666]

There's a good site where someone uses a variety of sources to come up with good estimates of both series' firepowers in comparison to each other. Google star trek vs star wars, it's there somewhere.

It concludes that the Slave-I would be more than a match for a galaxy class, so a bunch of fighters would probably take out an intrepid class without much trouble.

[chiconspiracy]

Big problem, Star Trek ships miss other Star Trek ships way too often, and they are much larger and much slower than Star Wars fighters (Look at any Dominion War clip for examples). Yet Trekkies talk like they would pick them off in seconds? WTF?

[Idazmi7]

@chiconspiracy They only miss in the Dominion War.

[xShadowsithx]

come on thats laughable, the enemy star wars ships are starfighter and their fight against a interprid class cruiser. You must fight against ships like a Nebulon-B Class Frigate or bigger than is that a fair fight.

[Perion]

@xShadowsithx You'd think so but Fighters often have torpedoes and missiles, which are each worth 8 of the photon torpedoes carried aboard a Starship. Not to mention the ECM and speed/manueverability would make them nearly impossible to hit.

[CptPicard832]

The comment below me is intended for @Perion

[CptPicard832]

Continued on last comment) . . . ie. on DS9, you mostly see everything happening on the station as the defiant was meant as a combat vessel exclusively, four, phasers can look and act as anything as this is what i said about them "PHASed Energy Reticulation (look at where the capital letters are) which is the focusing and processing of the energy that makes the ship move faster than light " proccesing means it can be anything, and five, pit slave 1 against you and slave 1 would pwn your ass!!!

[Perion]

@CptPicard832 Sorry but we have never seen any evidence that Phasers can move faster than light, quite the contrary, and again prove that's what the Phased part means.

And again you misinterpreted what I had said many posts prior, in that Blasters and Turbolasers share about as much in common with Lasers as Phasers do, IE they are completely different with very different characteristics from a Laser, I never said that Blasters and Turbolasers are like Phasers.

[ZurBar8]

The one significant difference I've noticed between ST and SW is Star Trek's lack of starfighters. Which I think is a disadvantage somewhat.

[CptPicard832]

@ZurBar8 BC should have put in assault shuttes, ST does have fighters if you look back at Deep Space 9

[JediMasterHorton]

is that even possible @StLegacy

[spiritofthewolf15x]

If you're gonna compare ST to SW, have an Intrepid go up against a Corellian Corvette. At least that would be a fair size to size comparison.

Actually, considering how long it took your ST ships to take out a few fighters.... yeah..

[22cevans]

A bunch of fighters from star wars wouldn't be any match for 1 federation starship. Never mind a fleet. Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge Star Wars fan. I'm also a big Star Trek fan. But when I think of what the ships in both of them are capible of, I come to the conclution that even a lone Starfleet ship could win, even agenst this many fighters easy.

[STLegacy]

Haha, I'm more of a Star Trek than Wars fan, I haven't really taken the time to watch Wars, because I really love Trek! I don't really know about Star Wars ship strengths, but I'd root for the Intrepid!

[22cevans]

@STLegacy Well, I also like Star Trek more. All I really like in Star Wars are Lightsabers, the Force and the characters

[Perion]

you should read up on what I said before, i put up the stats on the Enterprise D and Slave 1 as Jango Fett had it loaded out.

Slave 1 decisively won out, no joke.

[22cevans]

@Perion Dead wrong. In an episode of TNG, Picard told us how effective lasers are against Starfleet shields. He said that their navigational deflectors could be hammered by lasers indefinitely and still hold, and navigational deflectors are primary designed to brush aside space dust.

[Perion]

@22cevans and yet in the very next episode he refuses to approach a planet where they use Laser weapons for fear of endangering his ship unless they cease fire.

Star wars weapons aren't L.A.S.E.R.s as they share none of the characteristics, Star Wars energy weapons are slower than light, much like disruptor and defiant phasers, they also interact with each other and flak burst.

The only thing they have in common is that they are called Lasers, but that in and of itself means nothing.

[Perion]

The Lasers seen on most Star Trek ships are in the kilowatt range, the same level of energy as a modern assault rifles or space dust hitting a ship at the kinds of speeds they like to travel at, most races that can dish out more power to their weapons don't use lasers any more, hence why they believe that.

The Empire is no exception, they just still call their weapons Lasers like how we still call engineering schematics blueprints even though they aren't blue anymore.

[CptPicard832]

@Perion You are an idiot, for one, they are phasers which are absolutely nothings like lasers, for two, i need at least 3 canon sources for you to say that phasers are in the kilowatt range, and three blueprints are a complete exception

[Perion]

@CptPicard832 you do realize you just agreed with me on 2 points while making a completely indefensible position against the blueprint example IE slang.

[CptPicard832]

@CptPicard832 blueprints and schematics thing still fall into the exact same family of such though, ie. a laser burst or a laser beam, no difference, but PHASER stand for . . . . PHASed Energy Reticulation (look at where the capital letters are) which is the focusing and processing of the energy that makes the ship move faster than light ie. The Warp Core of a starship

[Perion]

@CptPicard832 Lasers, Phasers and Disruptors also fall into the exact same family of such, ie. general purpose directed energy weapons.

You appear to have misunderstood what I meant by saying "The Lasers seen on most Star Trek ships" as meaning I suggested that most Star Trek ships have lasers, where I was only talking about the Trek ships that have them, IE Trek Ships that have lasers only have them in the Kilowatt range, A Star Wars Laser is no more a Trek laser than a Trek Phaser is.

[Perion]

@CptPicard832 if Phasers worked on the same pricinples of a Warp Core, then why does DS9 have stronger Phasers than any ship while it, itself, has no Warp Core.

Never has there been any evidence that the characteristics of Phasers and Warp cores have anything in common.

[CptPicard832]

@Perion Correction, one, the Defiant does have a warp core, two, the model of phasers on the Defiant are more powerful no matter what (bigger ship does not mean more powerful phasers), the model of phasers on the defiant are new and are consistant of concentrated phasers blasts, more powerful phasers means more drain of power on a ship, three, the defiant is meant to be designed as an escort/warship which means it used primarily for combat purposes only ( CONTINUED ON NEXT COMMENT)

[Perion]

@CptPicard832 You don't understand, I'm not talking about the Defiant, I'm talking about the Station Deep Space Nine itself.

[CptPicard832]

@Perion You said it was a ship and BTW, the power core on the station still serves the same purpose as a warp core, to give power to a station or vessel

[Perion]

@CptPicard832 No I didn't, I simply said it had stronger phasers than any ship.

[CptPicard832]

@Perion one problem though, you just caled it a ship >:P

[Perion]

@CptPicard832 uh, no, I didn't.

[Perion]

@CptPicard832 *sigh* again you misunderstand, I said "stronger phasers than any ship" I never said "stronger phasers than any other ship" I was comparing it as a station to ships, I never once said it was a ship, you only misinterpreted it as meaning such for some reason.

It would go a long way to explaining how you would think that Phasers somehow work on the same principle as a warp drive where there is no evidence to support that, considering how you misconstrued what I said so completely.

[CptPicard832]

@Perion Honestly, what I am trying to say is that DS9 has a power core with enough energy to muster up the most powerful phasers, that phasers and lasers are completely different mechanics etc., and just to set the record, according to Star Trek Nemesis , the Enterprise could probably out power DS9

[Perion]

@CptPicard832 yes phasers and lasers are completely different mechanics but so are Star Wars Lasers which aside from sharing the name and purpose as a general use directed energy weapon have very different characteristics from either phasers or trek lasers.

Enterprise being more powerful than DS9, even during nemesis is still highly unlikely, it has more torpedo tubes and a few more phaser arrays, but it appears to have lost it's Quantum Torpedoes as I don't recall them firing any in nemesis.

[CptPicard832]

@Perion I am sorry, but once again you are very much mistaken, the Enterprise in Nemesis fires at least 9 quantum torpedoes, countless photons, and like 40 phasers which drained more of the Scimitar's shields than other ship weapon in Nemesis unlike the other movies like Insurrection (Enterprise only fires 2 photons and 2 phasers), and First Contact (9 quantums, 4 photons, and 4 phasers. . . . Nemesis is my favorite Star Trek movie to be honest.

[Perion]

@CptPicard832 Nemesis was the worst trek movie of all of them, but that's my opinion, and I've only seen it once. However, there is no "once again you are very much mistaken" as that is the only mistake I have made in this discussion. Meanwhile you have made rather constant mistakes and misinterpretations.

Quantum Torpedoes are reasonably powerful but there is no evidence that the Enterprise E even approaches the firepower of DS9.

[CptPicard832]

@Perion DUDE!!!, the only way to find out is to go on star trek bridge commander, and have a battle with the kobayashi maru mod between the EnterpriseE and DS9

[Perion]

@CptPicard832 which would be based entirely on game mechanics rather than anything else.

[CptPicard832]

@22cevans Exactly what I have been trying to tell Perion

[Perion]

@CptPicard832 except you are both mistaken.

[TheCastellan]

@22cevans

In one of my fictions where a Starfleet ship got pulled into the Star wars universe for awhile, they fought fighters pretty well....and many times just flew right into them, taking out several at once. :3

[Perion]

that's your fanfic though, that has no bearing on actual Star Wars vs Star Trek on their actual stats, so it's not relevant.

[Herpkid56]

..no duh..ther fighters!!!!

[aerohurtz]

@22cevans I'm guessing this guy didnt want to post a video of him losing though so he didnt face any form of star destroyer :D, ships get destroyed in seconds from those.

[Romengame]

Imperial II vs. Sovereign would be epic

[STLegacy]

Sovvie! :D

[Perion]

not that epic, the fight would be over the moment the Imperial II fires the first shot, after that, the Sovereign would become a cloud of expanding gas.

honestly pit Slave 1 up against a Sovereign class and the sovvie would stand a better chance, and STILL be outclassed.

it's just how the stats are between both series, Quantum torpedoes have nothing on Proton Torpedoes and Concussion Missiles.

[STLegacy]

Wait.. there are no 'official' stats between the series!

[Perion]

actually there are, for Star Trek we've got on screen dialogue for one thing, mostly from TNG and early DS9 (when they still used real words.) once they started using meaningless terms like Isoton it became more difficult, and you have to take it by comparison to known TNG values.

for Star Wars it's also the films as well as the Cross Section books, which are both official and canon, the prequel ones were made during the prequel filmings (they were invited to skywalker ranch to observe)

[Perion]

in TNG we know that over 400 gigawatts of particle energy can momentarily down the Enterprise's shields,

this makes sense, since the tech manual states that each generator's peak output is around there. (some stuff from the manual was made canon such as the Saucer Section re-entry procedure, other parts were thrown away such as hand phaser firepower)

in DS9's "Battle Lines" a 900megawatt blast shot down a Runabout.

TIE fighter blasters are 8,000 gw per shot, with a firing rate of 240 rpm

[Perion]

the point defense guns alone on an Acclamator class starship are at keast 300,000,000 GW

the heavy guns are around 10,041,600,000,000 gw 

the firepower on an Imperial Class Star Destroyer is Anywhere from 2,000,000,000,000,000 gw (aka 2e24 watts) to 9,23e24 watts (it can reroute almost all it's reactor power to the weapons if necicary)

generally accepted firepower is around 3e24 watts for a Star Destroyer, enough to turn a class M planet into a Class D.

[Perion]

in terms of equivalent Nuclear firepower, a Star Destroyer is capable of dishing out anywhere from 717 teratons a second, to 2.4 petatons a second,

if we go by the generous Tech Manual stats for photon torpedoes (rather than the much lower stats shown on screen) that means a Star Destroyer can dish out anywhere between 30 billion to 100 billion Photon torpedoes a second,

with shields able to withstand a full half hours worth of bombardment from the 30 bpt/ps

[Herpkid56]

...turbo laser fire....cant hate it...vant stand against it X)

[Perion]

Indeed, Starfleet's vessels cannot repel firepower of that magnitude :P

[Kargaroc286]

@Perion bullshit.

a star destroyer and a galaxy class are evenly matched ships.

a star destroyer only has simple fusion power with electrical wiring. star trek ships use matter/antimatter reactors and use plasma conduits which are much more efficient then wiring. not to mention a concussion missile sounds to me like a spatial torpedo from star trek enterprise... and proton torpedoes can compare with transphasic torps.

[Perion]

except even a starfighter launched concussion missile has a 191 megaton yield. while federation capital grade photon torpedoes only have a 24 megaton yield, and Quantum torpedoes only have a 48-50 megaton yield.

Star Destroyers do not use nuclear fusion power and only use electrical wiring on their consoles and terminals (why use plasma conduits for a display screen or door switch?), they use Hypermatter reactors (which are more powerful than matter/antimatter reactors) and use Plasma conduits.

[Perion]

though the plasma conduits are only for high energy systems such as engines, weapons, shields etc.

plasma conduits in star wars can be as thin as electrical wires, or thick enough to fly a Shuttlecraft through, like those around a Star Destroyer's reactor (which itself is large enough to park Voyager inside.)

my source for this is the Complete Cross Sections, the most canon and up to date tech source that overrides all others such as the technical journals and essential guides.

[Idazmi7]

@Perion Except that Star Wars doesn't place it's firepower in canon: at all. Star Trek's old, old Constitution Class can level a planet's surface in one salvo, as per "Whom Gods Destroy". Star Wars needs a moon-sized battlestation to do a planet in. In Star Trek, all they need is one ship.

[Perion]

Galaxy Class Starship Stats (from the TNG Technical Manual)

Main phasers: 3.6 GW (5.1 MW per emitter, 200 emitters in the main phaser array, 2 full-sized saucer arrays and 3 smaller roughly half-size arrays on the stardrive section, p.123). Note that phasers appear to have a chain-reaction effect so their raw power output may be deceptively low.

Photon torpedoes: 64 megatons max theoretical (based on 1.5 kg antimatter payload, p.129)

DS9 tech manual states they are 74% efficient = 48 megaton

[Perion]

Sublight acceleration: 1000G (design goal, p.75)

Operational range: 2750 light-years (7 years at warp 6 before refueling, p.3)

Shield heat dissipation: 3311 GW peak (473 GW per generator x 7 generators, p.138)

TNG episode "The Survivors" shows that their shields become all but overloaded if from a >400gw hit (bringing one of the generators down.)

Reactor power: ~4 billion GW at max warp 9.6 (p.55 chart uses units of joules for power; assume this is a simple mistake).

[Perion]

Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6), sustainable 12 hours for a single sprint of roughly 3 light-years. This appears to have increased to roughly 3000c for newer ships such as the Intrepid-class.

on screen performance places Torpedo yields much lower, in the single digit Megaton range at best (based on the speed of debris and episodes such as Rise and Pegasus)

8472's beam continued to destroy the planet after they stopped firing, so it must have been a chain reaction.

[Perion]

30-ship bombardment in "The Die is Cast" (surface-level explosions create fireballs in the megaton range at most, judging from fireball duration). No sub-orbital ejecta launched from planet's surface nor is there any glowing of the crust, which would occur during any such "slagging"

they clearly had false data being fed to them from the planet, and they had a founder spy on board the Romulan vessel, also the officer who cited the damage was quite surprised by it, even before checking lifesigns

[Perion]

Photon torpedoes barely track their targets, and are practically dumbfire, so they are easy to dodge.

their yield is also in an omnidirectional blast, which creates two problems.

1. the blast makes firing the weapon at short range a danger to the vessel that fired it.

2. the percentage of the blast that impacts the target is the percentage of the total yield that affects it, as a result, a Photon torpedo cannot be expected to cause much more than 24 megatons damage to any target it hits.

[Perion]

Clone War era Slave 1, (X-wings are at Least equal to this, if not greater)

Main guns: 64000 GW (2 kilotons per shot, 480 rpm firing rate onscreen in AOTC)

Missiles: 190 megatons (tail-launched missiles; seismic charge mines are roughly 12000 megatons)

track targets, navigate through asteroids with the best of them, they come back around and the only way to get rid of them is to destroy them

they also have a shaped charge, allowing point blank fire and 100% of their firepower onto the target.

[Perion]

Sublight acceleration: 2500G

Operational range: not stated (however, Obi-Wan's starfighter has an operational range of 150,000 light-years, and is probably similar).

Shield heat dissipation: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has shield dissipation of 2 billion GW peak, and is probably similar)

Reactor power: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has power output of 7 billion GW max, and is probably similar)

[Perion]

Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, the ability to travel "halfway across the galaxy" in a matter of hours as demonstrated frequently in the films requires speeds in the range of 10 million to 100 million times c).

you don't even want to know what an Acclamator is capable of, let alone an Imperial Class Star Destroyer.

[CaptainRoyMustang170]

You know that the TNG Technical Manual is non canon

[Perion]

of course, but it is "official speculation" in fact using the Tech manual is quite generous, since on screen firepower of the Photon torpedoes place them somwhere on an order of magnitude lower than the tech manual does (around 500 kilotons - 1 megaton)

[JWLuke787]

those fighters and bombers seem a little large imo

[STLegacy]

Oh, I really don't know, I haven't seen SW.

[tyedgy]

man theyre always making the star wars ships easy

[STLegacy]

Because they are :P (Sorry, I just had to say it! It's maybe because Y-Wings aren't real 'starship-powered, I think

[tyedgy]

no really i mean that theyre always making those ships easy a star wars x wing can go up one on one with a galaxy class. i dont see how thye would just own the fleet

[STLegacy]

Galaxy Class? Probably not.

[tyedgy]

i think so when i say a fighter can match up equally to a federation battle ship i mean the galaxy class

[STLegacy]

Well, that's your thought! But I am pretty sure that that would be a victory for Jean-Luc Picard!

[tyedgy]

im pretty sure that itll be a victory for the rebels

[STLegacy]

See you on the battlefield! :P

[tyedgy]

aye see u on the battlefeild but itll be filled with peices of federation ships not imperial

[STLegacy]

We'll see!

[tyedgy]

yes we shall see

[Futzyy]

And then all the SW ships collapsed for not being even REMOTELY scientifically possible! :D :D :D :D

[BygPhattyPlus]

Well, that just wasn't a fair fight! But how in the Sam Hill did they take out a Galaxy class; crush into it?

[STLegacy]

If they attack them 12 against 1, it could be possible.

[danieldb631]

An X-wing and Y-wing starfighters standing up under phaser and photon torpedo fire? They've only got deflector shielding that can only take a few hits from a turbo laser before they're down. I think a couple Imperial Class star destroyers and their TIE squadrons would be more of a challenge. Maybe.

[STLegacy]

They probably would. The X- and Y-Wings outnumbered the Federation ships 2 to 1.

[tyedgy]

turbo lazers taht are several times stronger than photon torpedoes

[STLegacy]

I disagree, lasers... phasers

[tyedgy]

just because it has the word laser in there doesnt mean aht it is a laser. if it was a laser then there would be a lense

[hoppers001]

you've got to be kidding me, starships having trouble with star wars fighters???

[STLegacy]

But who won :P

[tyedgy]

i dotn see how they will not. i think the star wars fighters can own the fleet

[STLegacy]

Nah... that's too exaggerated! :P

[tyedgy]

not really star wars ahs been spacefaring for wat 25000 years? star trek has space faring for 400

[STLegacy]

And in 25000 years, they can only build two things which destroy a planet, while Species 8472 has (Insert random very high number here) ships that can destroy a planet

[tyedgy]

3 isds can make a plane inhabitable 100 isds can melt a planets crust and they ahve much more that 2 things that can destroy a planet

[hoppers001]

40 fed ships can slag a planets crust in 1 hour. 1 starship can make a planet inhabitable.

[STLegacy]

8 Species 8472 ships can destroy a planet completely.

[hoppers001]

but voyager can survive a direct hit from one of those planet destroying beams?

[STLegacy]

Well, Voyager... is magical! No seriously, maybe they're weaker when alone Species 8472 are mysterious. Or maybe the middle ship is the most powerful one, because that's the one that shoots the beam, and Voyager maybe encountered one of the outer ships, which is less powerful.

[hoppers001]

LOL. right. they say 1701 was ridiculously powerful for surviving a direct attack from a doomsday machine that can carve up planets like a piece of meat.

[STLegacy]

Well, then you haven't seen Voyager (VOY Caretaker)!

[hoppers001]

I have seen it. What point are you trying to make about caretaker.

[STLegacy]

It's just a quote from Janeway, Paris says that Federation starships can't manoever in plasma storms, to which Janeway replies "Then you haven't seen Voyager"

[hoppers001]

no. one phaser shot would take out a fighter.

[tyedgy]

not possible the fighters sheilds ar just as strong as the ships firing at them

[hoppers001]

okay do you know what you're saying. you're saying a fighter is as strong as a fully equipped powered starship. *roll eyes*

[tyedgy]

yeah they are they looks weak because thye onlyever fought against the empire

[tyedgy]

and yes im saying that a fighter is as strong or stronger than a fully equipped powered starship

[hoppers001]

well you're mistaken.