Dancing Brave Arc 86

[cerij83]

what about sea bird the 2nd alleged and shergar cant make my mind up who was he best

[x2029x]

@rcschumann: Dancing Brave is an Akhal-Teke horse. Check out breeding through official sources (and not wikipedia).

[mabbrey]

only wayward lad would have caught him that day xxxxxxxxxx

[mabbrey]

only wayward lad would have caught him that day xxx

[mabbrey]

thing is he could have lapped them xxxx

[macvatu]

Sad to mention though Dancing Brave was hot favourite to win the Epsom Derby that year, but could only secure second place. Not the horse's fault, they reckon, the jockey that day, Starkey, left it just wee bit late to mount his challenge,... and hence, the dire consequence !!

[GBeret83]

I'm still to this day stunned that Dancing Brave was so dominate in the 86' Arc and all of his races that season in Europe. But finished out of the money when he came to Santa Anita and ran in the BC Turf that year. I always felt like he was the class horse in that BC Turf field, and would run away with that race after winning the Arc so convincingly. TJMO.

[stelomas10]

fuck me that horse could move

[rcschumann]

American bred horse, with the blood of the mighty Kentucky Derby champ, Northern Dancer coursing through his veins - no wonder he's great!

[forsoup]

Did Dancing Brave sire many horses?

[bigblackbear123]

Dancing Brave was one of the best horse ever. Only Sea the Stars could have lived with him. A pleasure to watch this again.

[Chaelli1]

Greatest horse ever and the greatest jockey ever.

[MrZachary30]

supreme owl , the brave was 2/1 to win the arc that day

[MrZachary30]

a supreme owl dancing brave was 9/4 the day before the arc, i had 1 of the biggest bets of my life on him in a laddys betting shop in ecclesfield sheffield but got 2/1 him you may know the bookies i mean if your username is what i think it is

[Spursrule1969]

MONSTER!!!!

[rosscty]

I was standing at the finish line,will never forget the noise when DB won,i got him ante-post 3-1,best horse i ever seen to grace a racecourse

[ASupremeOwl]

By the way does anyone know what Dancing Braves odds were for the Arc?

[MEECHIO]

@ASupremeOwl He started 11-10 Favourite in the Arc.

[ASupremeOwl]

@MEECHIO Thanks for that. What an horse Dancing Brave was... Magic!

[ASupremeOwl]

Truly trully brilliant, The greatest ever Arc win from one of the greatest of all time...

[MEECHIO]

Awesome performance from DB against a high quality field as well. I think you can forget his run in America as it seemed to me to be an afterthought having won the Arc and not forgetting back then it was nearly impossible for a European horse to win on the West Coast. He's the best in my lifetime imo and right up there with The Brigadier, Mill Reef, Sea Bird, Ribot and Vaguely Noble. But as we know it's all about opinions so I'm sure the Sea The Stars fans out there would disagree. :-)

[ASupremeOwl]

@MEECHIO Where the hell is Nijinsky in that group of horses You named? Thats like not including Muhammed Ali in the group of the best boxers of all time!

[MEECHIO]

@ASupremeOwl Those were ones that came into my head when typing, indeed Nijinsky would certainly warrant a place alongside the greats I've listed. Champion at 2 and 3 years and I very much doubt his Triple Crown winning feat will be repeated especially as now the Arc seems to take precedence over the St Leger in Owners and Trainers thoughts. Big Credit to Nijinsky for tackling both races. Would of beaten Sassafras in the Arc I'm sure had he not veered out to the left in the final furlong.

[ASupremeOwl]

@MEECHIO And I would also hold Sea The Stars as one of the greatest of all time. No questions whatsoever...

[Laytonia1977]

One of the best ever.

[bigttim1]

The greatest turn of foot shown by any horse i've ever seen. It was absolutely electrifying for any horse to have the turn of foot that the brave had after 1.5 miles. awesome.

[GBeret83]

Dancing Brave, an absolutely great, electrifying colt. What a turn of foot on this horse. wow.

[ibanez777vbk]

dancing brave was the best horse ive ever seen.his turn of foot was electric,g starkeys ride in derby cost dancing brave ultimate legend status

[STINKYGOLDFISH]

Kinane didnt ride Dancing Brave mr royimsickofit! Also STS beat hardly much class of a filed, did you see the quality of racehorse Dancing Brave cruised past?

[willibaldcornfed]

This isn't Graham Goode's original commentary. He must have re-done it for this video.

[zarakhast]

All arguments / rivalries aside for a moment : what a great feeling that must have been for Eddery to be sitting on the back of an Arc winner, with all the people cheering as he enters the winner's enclosure. Okay, it may be (?) dubbed, but all the same .... That's what racing or any sport is about. Great stuff.

[dessiesdoneit]

my m8 says i should have seen eddery's eyes after this, looked as if he was on cocaine, that was the buzz he got off this great horse

[sleeplessinsale]

Your mate is right. Eddery was choked up actually, it may have been tears in his eyes. His voice went a bit in the interview after he jumped off the horse.

[sleeplessinsale]

@dessiesdoneit I did see his eyes and it's closer to say that he looked like he was close to tears in disbelief at the sensation he'd just had with this horse. No horse ever made him emotional like on this day. His voice also cracked in the interview after.

[zarakhast]

Criquette Head rated Bering a "crack" (i.e. even above average for a classic winner) colt, and didn't believe he could be beaten.

Afterwards she dubbed Dancing Brave a "supercrack".

He had the most exhilarating turn of foot I've ever seen. It's nice to watch him being led into the magnificent winner's enclosure at Longchamp. It's just a shame that he didn't win the Derby. The best horse I've ever seen.

[gumlefeta]

One of the greatest horses ever. The jockey lost the derby on purpose!!!

[amazed66]

@gumlefeta I'm trying not be rude here so don't quite know how to word this but that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read regarding racing. Why would he do that and not only lose the money and prestige that goes with winning the race but also lose the ride on the horse too, bar one other time when Eddery was unavailable? Had Starkey won the Derby he probably would have been winning on the horse here too.

[MEECHIO]

@amazed66 Totally agree amazed66 what is this guy on!! Starkey messed up big time no doubt about it but to say he did it on purpose is just plain crazy.

[amazed66]

@MEECHIO that would be like saying John Terry missed his penalty on purpose in the Champions League final a couple of years ago.

[littlebay75]

i have supported leeds utd since , 1970,and i have followed racing , longer than you, and dont think you can be personally insulting , to someone you, brainless, shit just go and overdose and do real racing fans a favour

[zarakhast]

Apologies for that post. I thought (without bothering to look) that you were just a youngster jumping on a bandwagon. DB & STS = two great horses. Leeds = champions (at last) this year.

[apostlecreed]

black beauty was the greatest of them all

[zarakhast]

The first actually true thing that's been said for a while.

[littlebay75]

oh and remember i said at the start dancing brave was one of the greats , and he should have won the derby , but he didnt ,and he didnt win left handed in the breeders cup either. i feel sea the stars is the best european horse over middle distance we have seen and that is my last word on the subject............,,,,,,,,,,,­,,

[zarakhast]

You "feel" that but you my guess is that you're just a bandwagon boy - just like a Man.Utd fan. Follow the winner (e.g. Sea The Stars or Man.Utd or Barcelona) and then change your colours at the most opportune moment, just because it will reflect well on you when you meet others. If you are such a being then you're contemptible. Man.City fan since 1975 - and City will probably lose tomorrow, but you won't find me changing like some totally shallow creature. Nauseating.

[littlebay75]

jucabru or whatever your stupid name is , i backed sharastani , when he beat, yes beat dancing brave , when you were still at infants school , so dont be clever and tell me i know nothing about racing........

[matelot95]

Anyone who rates Sea The Stars over Dancing Brave wants their heads looking at.

At the end of the day though, none of them can compare to Brigadier Gerard.

[zarakhast]

It's great to see this footage because tragically he was maltreated, or at least neglected, after this. He should have been kept in England. He was a hero of a horse and I can't believe how shabbily he was treated by his OWN country after his career was over. Disgraceful really.

[littlebay75]

get a life, and get your head out of the clouds, dancing brave was a great horse , why would anyone who loves racing not be delighted that they have just witnessed a once in a lifetime horse , absolutely nuts to waste peoples time with such dumb, down the pub comments

[zarakhast]

Oh no, looks like my prediction was right. Here come the Sea The Stars fanboys ...

[littlebay75]

i had always fought this was the greatest performance in europe, by any horse but if you see how boxed in sts was and the way he won, in the arc ,plus his overall record this year , i feel he is the best now

[dezzyhunt]

the brave and stars hard to seperate if starkey had been placed in a better position in the derby not last how far would he had won he covered the last 2furlongs quicker than any sprinters time.these two are head and shoulders above any derby and arc winners

[coltheface]

royimsickofit knows nothing about horse racing.

[royimsickofit]

just my opinion col, never seen a horse with instant acceleration the way sts quickened in arc, yes db was brilliant but he was beaten twice as a 3 year old, sts retires unbeaten and unfazed. Think oxx deserves a mention, true gent and handled the horse superbly.

[zarakhast]

Sea The Stars would have been beaten if he'd continued racing : he was lucky not to have been beaten while he was still racing. He didn't win his races by much and he didn't have a truly exhilarating turn foor (at least not compared with DB's). You can't use his undefeatedness alone as an argument for his greatness ; the general standard of the horses in 2009 needs to be taken into account. Also, was his turn of foot really that good ?

[zarakhast]

"turn foor" = turn of foot !

[royimsickofit]

I honestly think your winding me up! What wouldve beat him? He can only beat whats in his races and he did that easily. His turn of foot in the arc was breathtaking.

[zarakhast]

A bit short-lived in my opinion. Impressive for a few strides, enough to be decisive. Dancing Brave, on the other hand, was still pulling away after crossing the finishing line in his Arc. Don't get me wrong though, STS deserves all the plaudits he's getting. It's nigh on impossible to compare horses from different generations. If DB didn't stay 12f then Eddery's Arc ride must have been split-second perfect.

[royimsickofit]

zar , what did you make of sts chapion stakes win? For me it was pure pure class, an irish derby winner goes 4 lengths past him on ground that didnt suit and he reels him in with ease. Of course your right its unfair 2 compare the generations but to me sts is best ive seen, pity we never seen him properly extended

[zarakhast]

Mighty impressive. There's no doubt that he's a great horse. But how good ? I don't reckon he had as good a turn of foot as DB, nor do I think that 2009 was as strong a year as 1986. But, being 41, and a huge fan of Dancing Brave, I'm probably biased. Objectivity, that's what we all need. But it's practically impossible ! Dancing Brave was really exciting, though that doesn't mean he was the best. I believe he can't have been far from being the best though, after much cogitation.

[royimsickofit]

just watched a few Nijinsky reruns, bloody hell that was a classy beast as well!

[bigttim1]

Your right mate Nijinsky was the only one that i think could be compared to the brave

[zarakhast]

What I'm going to make a point of doing now is to watch every video of Sea The Stars I possibly can, and without my Dancing Brave prejudice, which I admit to - though, strangely enough it was arrived at by the same impartial attitude I am now promising to undertake. I saw all of STS's wins and was always impressed - but I never saw him draw away emphatically. Whether that's because 2009 was a great year or not I don't know yet and perhaps I never will.

[royimsickofit]

His turn of foot won the arc in a matter of striges mate, on top of that he always looked like he had another gear if it was needed. 41, that makes you 18 when db was at his pomp, an impressionable age, i know cos im 38 and dessie had that effect on me when i was 18. Like your going to do , I watched the DB reruns, a true true great, and I do agree 86 was a far better year than 09, but sts only ever did enough

[royimsickofit]

also it took DB 2 furlongs to win his whereas STS was a matter of strides. Also Kinane states its the best he's ridden, considering he's not a man to go over top and he rode montjeu 2 an effortless king george, these words hold water

[royimsickofit]

sea the stars would eat him alive

[jcbruru]

lol.. you obviously know nothing about horse racing

[apostlecreed]

aye aye roy boy

[grincher2006]

the greatest horse Ive ever seen.

[ButlersBelle]

Trained not far from me and probably my favourite (and the best) flat horse by far.

[greatest933]

whooooooooooooosh enugh said

[greatest933]

i have said this before and i will repeat myself ttill iam blue in the face,you are now witnessing the greatest racehorse to ever grace the turf, never tire of watching this race still gives me goosebumps 23yrs on

[apostlecreed]

sorry pal.but surely that lies hands down now, to sea the stars.a freak of nature we are witnessing.and the king and daddy of them all m j kinane said its the best horse he has ever sat on,"EVER".so you need not go around anymore with that big blue face....

[zarakhast]

But he never sat on Dancing Brave. If he had done STS would only have been the second best horse he'd ever sat on. Sea The Stars vs. Dancing Brave = Robin Reliant vs. Ferrari.

[bigttim1]

@greatest933 Dancing Brave is probably the best horse that anyone ever seen he was an absolute machine a true horse in a lifetime. I seriuosly doubt if we'll ever see another like him.

[ASupremeOwl]

@greatest933 I'd argue Nijinsky on His day was the best there ever was... Phenomenal

[ThefightingCelt]

@ASupremeOwl On his King George performance alone, he certainly had more claims than most. Piggott still maintains this particular performance is still the best from any top class horse he had ever ridden.

[redkat100]

@greatest933 sea the stars for me !

[Spursrule1969]

Starkey sucks!!!

The Brave is the GREATEST!

[lillywhiteandproud]

see what happens when you replace an english jockey with an irish jockey...

[irishbraq]

youre right mate,belfast here...nice 1

[irishbraq]

mullins fan with a name like that

[sandcastlejim]

Starkey cost this horse imortality when he fucked up in the Derby. Criminal offence.

[rosscty]

I was there,standing at the finish line,got 3-1 antipost,greatest horse i've ever seen

[irishbraq]

best flat horse ive ever seen

[cmcgarth1O]

just when i seen secretariat in the belmont...31 lengths, on that day i dont believe there was another horse ever who could have got near him.ON THAT DAY!!

[zarakhast]

Also true I reckon. To accelerate throughout the whole race - incredible. I wonder whether DB could have kept up ? The Belmont never really developed into a race, it was more like a time trial. But DB was never going to win races in that fashion. For style though, DB wins hands down.

[marysueeasteregg]

It was the Kentucky Derby, not the Belmont, in

which Secretariat accelerated throughout the race, running each quarter faster than the pre-

ceding. I can't imagine any horse accelerating

in a 12 furlong race after running the first 6 f.

in 1:09 4/5 (final 2:24). He could win coming from far back, stalking, or on the front end. I had not been aware of Dancing Brave as one of Europe's greatest runners - arguably the greatest - until very recently. What a pleasure to see film of the great ones!

[zarakhast]

Secretariat was freakish. I'd fear for DB against Secretariat - though not perhaps on this (Arc0 day. Ridden well I don't think that DB would have been left adrift by Secretariat, though that's only a guess (and perhaps wishful thinking too). He (DB) was a relaxed horse. I reckon that if DB could have stayed within say 3 or 4 lengths of Secretariat going into the final 1 1/2 furlongs he would have won. Big 'IF'. Secretariat was a freak. For me, though, S. was never really challenged .....

[zarakhast]

This was a special horse. There's never been a more exciting horse than this. And if you consider the opposition he had to run against (Bering, Shahrastani, Triptych, Shardari etc.) and the records they had, plus the times he posted not only for the whole race but also for the final furlong (and the same in other races too), DB has to go down as one of the very best, if not THE BEST. He was certainly the most entertaining of all the great horses. I personally believe he was the best, bar none.

[zarakhast]

Oh dear it's all dubbed. No problem. It's still great to see a bit of what happened after the race though.

[zarakhast]

What a glorious moment. And then he dies, neglected, at 16 yrs old. Why do we let these things happen ? What a great horse.

[cmcgarth1O]

what do you mean neglected?

[zarakhast]

What I mean is that he ought to have been kept in England and not sold to a country (Japan) that wouldn't treat him as well. That is OUR fault. All in the name of money, as per usual. But also I believe that over time, because he didn't win the Derby (Starkey's fault - say what you like) he'll be relegated to the "good but not great" category of horse - whereas he was actually the greatest of them all, if you weigh everything up. No other great could finish like DB. I'm bored of arguing though.

[cmcgarth1O]

i agree m8 i wasnt tryin to argue i was just asking how he was neglected because its before my time. great to be able to watch all the best horses from the past, i think the best has been tho :(

[zarakhast]

I agree. Whether he was the best or not - who can know ? But if there was ever an artist's horse it was this one. The way he won his races sticks in your memory.

[apostlecreed]

dancing brave better than sea the stars..your obviously a once a week punter and new to the game

[zarakhast]

You're obviously a once-a-week grammar student. It's "you're" not "your". Thanks for your clever remark though, oh great one.

[zarakhast]

O great one. What a pair of illiterate twits we are - though obviously you know more about horse-racing than I do.

[zarakhast]

Thanks for this footage. He was an astounding horse. It's great to see him being acclaimed by the generous French crowd at the end. I wish i could see more of this.

[TopRobbo1970]

Magnificent horse, and magnificent riding by Eddery.

[pizzadud4]

I would love to see Dancing Brave, Montjou & Zarkava run as that would be awesome, but the fact remains Dancing brave was the fastest horse ever to hit a race track, so would have won. Look at who he beat Shadari!!! Shahrastani Trytych Bering like a who's who of classic champions. the sad thing was they took him to the dirt in US and he was humiliated with sand reported in his eyes when he returned.

[147ard]

The speed of the Brave lives on.

[Kingmole2008]

pretty poor ride? pretty poor ride?!! if you knew anything about this amazing racehorse then you'll know that one of it's flaws was that it stopped and pulled up pretty much as soon as it hit the front - ya ever seen DB win the King George? the reason Starkey ballsed up the derby -forget about suspect stamina, they knew he'd stay. watch the turn for home on this video where he had to box DB to get cover again, it was a peach of a ride - only wish Eddery could ride Harcibald in the Ch'Hurdle!!

[147ard]

Thats not true, Dancing brave only ever idled in front in one race (king George) because eddery got him stuck between the fading pacemakers at the corner and had to quicken DB to catch a hot pace, eddery then pulled dancing brave out in the straight and hit the front then moved in on the rail, the reason he looked like he idled in front is because eddery made mistakes and the horse was tiring due to these mistakes. He never idled in front in his craven, guineas, arc or 2 year old races.

[Spaceweed10]

Sorry dude, that's absolute rubbish. DB was ridden that day as a horse who 'wouldn't' get the trip. DB was a speed horse who got a mile and a half very well, so if they knew this, why wasn't he positioned better from the off? It was the worst ride I've ever seen given to a Group 1 horse, who is arguably the greatest racehorse ever. Not winning the '86 Derby was possibly the no1 miscarriage of justice in racing history.

[sanjbudd]

pretty poor ride for Pat in hindsight - 4 wide for most of the race so the horse must have been something special to get him out of that jam.