This is indeed one of the finest scenes in all Bergman's oeuvre: the contrast between the eloquence of the music on the one hand, and the insensitive cruelty of the mother towards her daughter on the other hand; the pain felt by the latter which is expressed only through the cool expertise of the concert pianist, the conflict between hate and love which clash in this scene; it is absolutely brilliant.
This is indeed one of the finest scenes in all Bergman's oeuvre: the contrast between the eloquence of the music on the one hand, and the insensitive cruelty of the mother towards her daughter on the other hand, the pain felt by the latter which is expressed only through the cool expertise of the concert pianist, the conflit between hate and love who clash in this scene; it ia absolutely brilliant.
@Cafeblanx Agreed. Translations always seem to lose the flavour of the original, somehow. I've seen that with translations into English from Swedish and vice versa.
My friend was just telling me that Viv Ullman can say more with her expression than most actors can do with a page or two of script... I think I see what he means here.
It's a rather disagreeable piece of music though. There seems , little satisfying about it.
Even if Kabi Laretei's playing was dubbed over Ingrid's, the fact that Ingrid's hands are actually shown playing is quite wonderful. It adds so much more reality to the film. Same thing with Intermezzo. The sound was dubbed, but Ingrid was still a talented pianist, so her hands could be shown.
It would be interesting to learn to what extent this scene influenced the long fermata like piano sequences in haneke/huppert's interpretation of jelinek's Klavierspielerin?
Sobrecogedora secuencia: De los ojos de la hija se escapa todo el resentimiento que siente hacia su madre, pero a la vez la mira con gran admiración, por estar tocando con maestría la pieza de Chopin que se le resistía. Amor y odio contrapuestos en su interior; su madre ha destrozado su vida, pero la hija no puede evitar sentir amor hacia ella. Bergman en estado puro. ¡Maravilloso!
Sobrecogedora secuencia: De los ojos de la hija se escapa todo el resentimiento que siente hacia su madre, pero a la vez la mira con gran admiración, por estar tocando con maestría la pieza de Chopin que se le resistía. Amor y odio contrapuestos en su interior; su madre ha destrozado su vida, pero la hija no puede evitar sentir amor hacia ella. Bergman en estado puro. ¡Maravilloso!
This is the greatest analysis of Chopin's Prelude no2 that exists and one of the most profound musical-dramatic scene of the entire cinematography The way Liv looks at Ingrid is pure Genius.. The description of the prelude as a Pain Image is Ingenius...
-where are the geniuses :)) Are they gone forever? :p Is it Long live the Stupids? :))
@LohengrinT Remember that such music was written in a superior age, that is, an aristocratic age (or at least when the accumulated capital of an aristocratic age had yet to be fully spent). With the rise of democracy comes militant mediocrity, which of course makes such music impossible.
what democracy?? we are living in pure Oligarchy, it is just that the "few" have become very clever as have their ways of domination
I dont think Democracy ever existed in the history of human kind - the idealism of Ancient Greeks to hide their slave-based society (and their oligarchy was the mildest of all). Today we live in an Oligarchy Terror
Ingrid reminds me on my piano professor, she also did this sort of explanations of music. It was very interesting to me, how she always succeed to 'catch' me with the story.... :) This film looks very interesting, pity I haven't got a chance to see it. :(
I will never forget Ms. Bergman's tight, unforgiving close-up as she tells Viktor (Ullmann's husband) that she thinks Liv's character is unhappy. The harsh, glaring light from the projection machine (as childhood pictures of Liv's character flash in the dark in a slideshow) captures Ingrid's desperate, panicked look in a haunting way. She chose to "perfect" her career as a pianist because she does not know how to live her life with her daughter. Ingrid Bergman should have won the Oscar.
This looks interesting and very dramatic (considering the fact that Ingrid is already sick in real life), shall I bring along a bunch of Kleenex when I see this film? :)
One of the most powerful scenes ever. Bergman's intense focus on the human face is so magnificent; the way he gets these performances out of his actors is nothing short of astonishing. Liv Ullmann is one of the most expressive actresses who ever lived.
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This is indeed one of the finest scenes in all Bergman's oeuvre: the contrast between the eloquence of the music on the one hand, and the insensitive cruelty of the mother towards her daughter on the other hand; the pain felt by the latter which is expressed only through the cool expertise of the concert pianist, the conflict between hate and love which clash in this scene; it is absolutely brilliant.
kyaume21 3 months ago
This is indeed one of the finest scenes in all Bergman's oeuvre: the contrast between the eloquence of the music on the one hand, and the insensitive cruelty of the mother towards her daughter on the other hand, the pain felt by the latter which is expressed only through the cool expertise of the concert pianist, the conflit between hate and love who clash in this scene; it ia absolutely brilliant.
kyaume21 3 months ago
@Cafeblanx Agreed. Translations always seem to lose the flavour of the original, somehow. I've seen that with translations into English from Swedish and vice versa.
DrNosepick 5 months ago
My friend was just telling me that Viv Ullman can say more with her expression than most actors can do with a page or two of script... I think I see what he means here.
It's a rather disagreeable piece of music though. There seems , little satisfying about it.
davie1238 6 months ago
@davie1238 you should see the movie.
cyrus138 2 months ago
haunting
seventeenboi 10 months ago
Pensez à aller voir le bergmanproject2009 ! Des commentaires à gogo.
jonscornac 1 year ago
à ceux qu'un commentaire intéresse:
jonscornac 1 year ago
İnqrid Berqmanın kinoda son rolu məhz bu filmdə "Payız sonatası" filmində olmuşdur. (From Azerbaijan)
BABEKTAGIZADE 1 year ago
Even if Kabi Laretei's playing was dubbed over Ingrid's, the fact that Ingrid's hands are actually shown playing is quite wonderful. It adds so much more reality to the film. Same thing with Intermezzo. The sound was dubbed, but Ingrid was still a talented pianist, so her hands could be shown.
TheLights045 1 year ago
It would be interesting to learn to what extent this scene influenced the long fermata like piano sequences in haneke/huppert's interpretation of jelinek's Klavierspielerin?
TheatreCritic 1 year ago
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Sobrecogedora secuencia: De los ojos de la hija se escapa todo el resentimiento que siente hacia su madre, pero a la vez la mira con gran admiración, por estar tocando con maestría la pieza de Chopin que se le resistía. Amor y odio contrapuestos en su interior; su madre ha destrozado su vida, pero la hija no puede evitar sentir amor hacia ella. Bergman en estado puro. ¡Maravilloso!
amorehabibi 1 year ago
Sobrecogedora secuencia: De los ojos de la hija se escapa todo el resentimiento que siente hacia su madre, pero a la vez la mira con gran admiración, por estar tocando con maestría la pieza de Chopin que se le resistía. Amor y odio contrapuestos en su interior; su madre ha destrozado su vida, pero la hija no puede evitar sentir amor hacia ella. Bergman en estado puro. ¡Maravilloso!
amorehabibi 1 year ago 2
The real pianist playing the Prelude was Käbi Laretei.
DesAbends 2 years ago 3
This is the greatest analysis of Chopin's Prelude no2 that exists and one of the most profound musical-dramatic scene of the entire cinematography The way Liv looks at Ingrid is pure Genius.. The description of the prelude as a Pain Image is Ingenius...
-where are the geniuses :)) Are they gone forever? :p Is it Long live the Stupids? :))
LohengrinT 2 years ago 20
@LohengrinT Remember that such music was written in a superior age, that is, an aristocratic age (or at least when the accumulated capital of an aristocratic age had yet to be fully spent). With the rise of democracy comes militant mediocrity, which of course makes such music impossible.
Jitpring 1 month ago
@Jitpring
what democracy?? we are living in pure Oligarchy, it is just that the "few" have become very clever as have their ways of domination
I dont think Democracy ever existed in the history of human kind - the idealism of Ancient Greeks to hide their slave-based society (and their oligarchy was the mildest of all). Today we live in an Oligarchy Terror
LohengrinT 1 month ago
Ingrid looks like Princess Grace in her later years here!
and thats a compliment...because i LOVE Princess Grace as i do Ingrid Bergman too!
IngridBERGMANatYT 2 years ago 3
young Liv Ullmann looks like Charlize Theron
mimilala89 2 years ago 4
Ingrid reminds me on my piano professor, she also did this sort of explanations of music. It was very interesting to me, how she always succeed to 'catch' me with the story.... :) This film looks very interesting, pity I haven't got a chance to see it. :(
chavelavargasfan 2 years ago 6
I finally buy this film and It's fantastic!!!
chavelavargasfan 2 years ago 6
Ingrid Bergman + Liv Ullman = FANTASTIC:D
IngridBergmanRocked 2 years ago 18
I love them! Ingrid and Liv are BEST ACTRESSES! I miss Ingrid Bergman sooo much! She was AMAZING ACTRESS!!!
mimilala89 2 years ago 2
She was a wonderful actress! One of the best!
Sicoe6256 3 years ago 3
Why come every single "Bergman" is a genius? :)
SaraLevin 3 years ago 3
I will never forget Ms. Bergman's tight, unforgiving close-up as she tells Viktor (Ullmann's husband) that she thinks Liv's character is unhappy. The harsh, glaring light from the projection machine (as childhood pictures of Liv's character flash in the dark in a slideshow) captures Ingrid's desperate, panicked look in a haunting way. She chose to "perfect" her career as a pianist because she does not know how to live her life with her daughter. Ingrid Bergman should have won the Oscar.
mguevarra61 3 years ago 4
Actually they were pictures of their dead son Erik.
valdiag 2 years ago 3
Estratto magnifico. Capolavoro assoluto.
Pingopalla 3 years ago
Qualcosa di simile a questo Preludio si trova nel brano "Unstern" di Liszt. Il caos totale.
DesAbends 3 years ago
I have allways looked at Ullman but now older I see the caracter of Ingrid Bergman and the love for the art she´s feeling...and etc
ramsenacka 3 years ago
This looks interesting and very dramatic (considering the fact that Ingrid is already sick in real life), shall I bring along a bunch of Kleenex when I see this film? :)
brushstrokesrock 3 years ago
oh god that look on Ulmann's face always gets to me. The most expressive face of any actress in film history I've seen.
Tigerlily21 4 years ago 5
Thanks for this subtitled UK-version (I only possess the Dutch subtitled one)...
donthuis 4 years ago
One of the most powerful scenes ever. Bergman's intense focus on the human face is so magnificent; the way he gets these performances out of his actors is nothing short of astonishing. Liv Ullmann is one of the most expressive actresses who ever lived.
affable83 4 years ago 4
Lovely. Thanks!
bison1203 4 years ago
excellent scene
phille22 4 years ago
wonderful
mafialm 4 years ago
sonata de otoño
missuniworld 4 years ago