Greg Koukl - Was Jesus just a great teacher?

[maryann799]

All believers need to do personal research on the history of the bible.I am a christian.I accept Jesus as my savior.I'm sure my definition of what "Savior" means, is quite different from the fundy view.At least I have researched and found all the contradictions and still saw God and he showed me many things.

No doubt there are many lies and deceptions....But God is real.God wants us to seek with all our hearts.Most peeps dont and just got to church on sunday.Repeat what they were told :(

[maryann799]

I dont think jesus ever said to believe in him and him alone???? he said he that whoever believes in the one who sent him (the father!) will have everlasting life...this mans spin is the typical corruption we have all learned growing up.

Jesus also said there is only who who is good and thats the father! he taught us to pray to the father...not him!

[73geneva]

@maryann799 No, Jesus emphatically said He is the only way to the father and that any other way apart from Him is false. In John 3:18 Jesus said anyone that does not believe in Him is condemned already. He said so again in Mark 16:16, after He rose from the dead. About being good, He said only the father is good, but He neither said He was bad. His statement was to proove to the man that by calling Him good, He acknowledges im as one with the father.

[maryann799]

@73geneva Yes ,every christian uses that qoute lol It all depends on what Jesus meant by that.doesnt it? I've learned,that Jesus simply meant he was the way to the father and any other way apart from him is false.

Now lets look at that without all the sunday school lessons and very bias christian teachings.Just jesus's words.

"The way" can literaly mean the way! example; show me the way to the airport.is the way ...the airport?? no! can you get to the airport without directions/the way? no!

[73geneva]

@maryann799 The very basis of Jesus' deity is one thing: His death and resurrection. He talked about this repeatedly. And after He rose, He clearly told His disciples that repentance should b preached in His name; the emphasis was on His name: it was no longer about peple just trying to be good. And all through that was what the disciples preached. The Bible says that if rightousness comes by keeping the law, then Christ died in vain.

[maryann799]

@73geneva

John.5 " Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

[73geneva]

@maryann799 Cool; if you believe in Jesus as your saviour and lord, then that is great! Indeed, you've passed from death to life.

[maryann799]

@73geneva here... we agree ;) I think where christians could have a difference in opinion is what lord and savior means. Jesus saved me from spiritual death(my savior).He is my lord(annointed one from our father)

[73geneva]

@maryann799 Cool!

[maryann799]

@73geneva Jesus was the annointed one,the son of God.The teacher.He taught us about GOD Our father. It is crucial to accept and believe jesus's message.When Jesus said ,Son of man ...means source of life (knowledge/understanding) those who hear the words of the son...come... to life.

Meaning we are dead in spirit until we do.

John 5:41 "I dont seek Human Praise" yet YOU would say we need to worship Jesus as God.Jesus never said that.Its all in our religious teachings how we read his qoutes.

[maryann799]

@73geneva rather how we come to understand Jesus's qoutes. no?

For instance your last sentence stated,"His statement was to proove to the man that by calling Him good, He acknowledges im as one with the father." uummm..not really?? Jesus actually said "why do say I am good?? There is only one who is Good.the fathe!" I wont let someone else...interpret that for me.Dont let anyone else tell you what to think either.Thanks for sharing :) Peace!

[Necktor]

I may ask, where's the proof for the "we only have unclear, unreliable, unsubstantiated accounts of his life and teachings" premise?

This reply relies on the reliability of such premise. And i don't think an argument could be well stated being just a claim.

[SeenAndNotSeen]

Horrible, horrible argument. First, there is little evidence even in the original Gospels that he claimed to be God. Most of the references to "Son of God" were added later.

Second, this guy, and CS Lewis and others, assume that the Bible is a 100% accurate portrayal of Jesus's life. Thus, they assume that everything attributed to him in the Bible was actually said or done by him. Obviously, if you believe the Bible already, you will believe Jesus was God.

[SeenAndNotSeen]

So how can we tell if Jesus was a great teacher? We can't really for sure, because we only have unclear, unreliable, unsubstantiated accounts of his life and teachings, with little to no contemporary secular writings about him.

The golden rule, love thy neighbor, judge not lest ye be judged: these are good teachings, no matter who said them.

We don't know much about Socrates either, but the ideas attributed to him certainly are worthwhile, even if he didn't actually espouse them.

[SeenAndNotSeen]

This line of thinking is damaging to reverence for Jesus. Basically, if this guy finds out Jesus isn't divine, he'll spit on his grave (if he could find it) and denounce him. People who think like this have no right to blame non-Christians who slander Jesus.

Maybe if Jesus hadn't had this all-or-nothing attitude pushed on him by Paul and church leaders in the years after his death, his teachings would have reached his intended audience, Jews.

[73geneva]

@SeenAndNotSeen People keep accusing Paul unjustly, but both John and Peter, who lived with Jesus said the same things as Paul. In 2 Pet1:16, Peter talked about being an eyewitness to the deity of Jesus. John said the same thing in John 21:24. Friend, it's Jesus or nothing. The world wants to accept Jesus on its own standard, but Jesus would not allow it; the reason being that He paid with His life and rose again. Who else could do it? That alone makes it all or nothing. JESUS is the only way.

[maryann799]

@73geneva you have to know that the apostles didnt write their own books...right? The very first church(christian church's) were stories people handed down in homes.wasnt until many years later,someone??? wrote the story in a book.NO ONE knows the authors.The real authors.

Mary(Jesus's mother) had a gospel too.She was a leader of HER church. Her book was NOT included in the canon because the church, only wanted men to be church leaders.

[73geneva]

@maryann799 Agreed, their might have been over a milion other gospels about Jesus. John said so in his gospel: John 20: 30-31 and John 21:25. However, the information we have about Jesus is enough to proove He is the Son of God; the messiah and by believing in Him we shall have eternal life. I mean, if someone does not believe the information they already have in the gospel, they won't believe, either, if Jesus Himself comes with a book.

[philosophy7575]

SeenAndNotSeen-

Can you substantiate your claims? What is your evidence that the title "Son of God" was added later? What evidence do you have for believing the Bible is not reliable? Why does only contemporary secular source count as reliable evidence for Jesus' life rather than the oral tradition which originated with eye witnesses?

[maryann799]

@philosophy7575 Paul was NOT an eye witness! He never met Jesus! There were 100's of gospels.Proof?? they have all been found! The four books in the NT,were chosen for a very specific reason when the catholic church was formed.

also ask yourself why Luke and Mark were not one of Jesus's hand picked Apostles.Look it up!

[mandybanana]

Thank you for such a concise reply to a very popular question!

[Yesica1993]

Well stated!