100% agree. Obamacare takes 500 billion from Medicare to Obamacare. Eventually if not repealed, Obamacare will turn into a one payer system where the Government is in charge of health care for everyone! The federal government will Underpay Doctors and Surgeons and people will stop going into medicine!
THere is no such thing as a "Market Solution" and there never will be.
Paul Ryan helped create this problem when he helped pass Medicare Part D & C and now he says the only way to fix it is tu turn it over to the parasitic HMOs
So basically hes saying its not fair they have a better deal dont want to get beat out step your game up you cant you lose oh well free market should be free for all just think if the government had buisnesses to begin with what if they opened up walmart and things of that nature maybe we wouldnt have so much debt.
@Deranged360 You really dont know what you are talking about. If the govt is involved with healthcare, it is not a free market. The govt runs all of its entities at a lost and that will undercut basic econ principles that no company can compete with. Obamacare is an over reaching govt program that has already cost billions more than advertise and will bankrupt the country and reduce the quality of health--it promises more than it could ever achieve. Oh, It was difficult to follow your grammer.
Lets talk about whats really wrong with this country! FOX NEWS is a Propaganda machine owned by tabloid sleeze lord "Rupert Murdock", & used to try to trick Christians and conservatives into believing the stupidest & meanest things imaginable! the amount of lies told on that channel in one hour could fill a large swimming pool! THATS whats killing this country, mass amounts of voters being filled all day long with non-facts and outright lies by Fox News! FIX THAT! and you fix the problem!!!!
Paul Ryan is a nigger! His district has the highest unemployment rate in Wisconsin, one of the highest in the country. Way to go meat head! You'll get that lobbying job for sure!
@pjmgame It's a broken, failed system! It won't be there for me when I retire but I'm still pumping money into it! Tell barack obama and the other liberals to lay off medicare because they stole over $500 billion from it to pass obamacare. Oh and obamacare will require the government to ration medicare to work. So dont yell at Paul Ryan he is trying to keep medicare alive for me to use.
@mandy26lez Its NOT a broken system. Liberals want to LOWER the retirement age. Conservatives want to RAISE the retirement age. Tell me...who's the enemy here?
@pjmgame You idiot, conservatives want to raise the retirement age because social security was set in place in a different time where the life expectancy and therefore retirement age was much lower than it is now.
Now people live longer and retire later,therefore it makes sense to raise it.But then common sense,facts,logic and deduction are not friends to liberals!
@pjmgame and what do you want to do? has it even gotten anywhere near your head that if you keep taxing the rich (the people, who create work places, the people with small but succeful business), then they would simply close down their busines and leave 400 people witout a job. overtaxing is NOT the solution for any crisis, cutting spending is. Example: a guy with 5 pizzarias gets overtaxted, shuts down the pizzarias, leaves people witout a job, it doesn't make sence to overtax,not now, not ever
@Bastuun That's because their fucking greedy. They have more than enough money for them and their familes. The pizzera is a SMALL business. CEO"S REPRESENT GLOBAL CORPORATIONS!!! And lets not forget that Obama EXTENDED the Bush tax cuts.
NOTICE how quickly the producers have that black dude jump in to interrupt Rep. Ryan once they realize he was in the middle of tearing that smug bitch's assumption to shreds.
They promptly ended the conversation, they could not have a conservative taking their dumb yes-woman to school on air like that. Better luck next time you useful idiot!!
RON PAUL IS GOING TO BE PROSECUTED BY UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! ITS UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO CALL AMERICAN PEOPLE INVADERS AND INITIATORS OF WARS.
RON PAUL SAID THE USA INVADES COUNTRIES AND STARTS WARS, WHICH GIVES USA A BAD REPUTATION AROUND THE WORLD , THEREFORE IT IS CONSIDERED A CRIME . A US CITIZEN WHO,
WAS BORN IN USA CANT GO AGAINST GOVERNMENT POLICIES WHICH MIGHT THREATEN THE FUTURE OF THE COUNTRY'S SECURITY .
You guys, I'm getting tired of explaining the same things over and over. The simple fact is that the US pays more than twice (as a percentage of GDP) what almost every other industrialized nation pays for its healthcare. And it has some of the worst outcomes (on a broad range of indicators). We pay twice as much and we get the worst outcomes. Every other industrialized nation has some form of public healthcare. These are facts. Look it up. Google it. And God bless.
Thanks to liberal policies America can no longer afford to pay for medicare, social security, unemployment and many other services. We also need to lower the minimum wage to $2/hr in order to compete with China and bring jobs back home. Fiscally responsible conservatives like Paul Ryan and John Boehner know this and are currently
working to end these wasteful handout programs and bring the minimum wage down so that America can be great again. God bless the GOP!
@centenosparky Typical liberal! "Paul Ryan lies!!!" with nothing to back it up. You've made a charge, now explain exactly what he has lied about and prove it. How about a counter-argument rather than just slinging mud. Typical liberal. Attack the person...never, ever truly argue substance.
The one good thing about Ryan's budget proposal is that it will put a lot of right wingers out of thier jobs and homes. They'll have to move in with the kids who won't have jobs either. Many will die from lack of proper affordable health care. I'm all for that.
So let's see, Ryan's argument is that the public option would more efficient and cost effective than any private company, and therefore it would be unfair force private companies to compete with it. Sorry Ryan, that's the opposite of capitalism. He's more interested in the welfare of the insurance companies than he is in that of the American people.
(p.s. The only degree Ryan has is a BA from Miami University of Ohio. And he's the Republicans' "smart guy".)
How stupid are you? Really. Ryan said nothing of the sort. A private plan cannot compete, idiot, because a public plan has unlimited resources....taxes. Private companies have limited resources, stockholders. The public plan can undercut prices with the taxpayers making up the difference with taxes until the private companies are driven out of business. Where is your degree from , Cracker Jack?
@lchrisberg1 1. Taxes are not an unlimited resource. 2. If the public plan cost customers or countries more, then people and countries would prefer private plans. The simple fact is that Healthcare in the US costs roughly twice as much per capita and has some of the worst outcomes compared to every other modern industrialized country. And almost every other modern industrialized country has some form of universal healthcare.
How stupid are you? Idiot. (See I can say that to you too.)
Taxes and printing of cash are unlimited for all practical purposes. Ben can always print enough cash and the government can always tax Americans enough to drive private insurers out of business. No doubt there. Point me. Idiot you.
So now let's deal with the next set of idiocy you spew. "If the public plan cost customers or countries more, then people and countries would prefer private plans." Huh? Seriously? Am I arguing with a fifth grader? What is your bedtime?
Yes, Americans spend more per capita on healthcare than others. That is because:
1. We are wealthier and have a higher per capita income.
2. We don't ration health care like universal healthcare countries.
People in Canada and Britain wait forever for procedures we walk in an hammer out in a day or two because our system is more efficient. We spend more on it because we have more income and we get more healthcare.
@lchrisberg1 Nice try. This is really funny, and shows you really haven't done any research on the subject. It seems you get your "information" from Fox news, or some such equivalent. Readers can judge for themselves. Just google "healthcare comparison by country", and look at a few of the studies. They all say roughly the same thing. And it's not because "we're wealthier and have a higher per capita income" - the latter part of which isn't even true in all cases.
Direct from the Wiki. Per Capita GDP. I added the %s but go ahead and recalculate them if you like. United States 47,284 100.00% Canada 39,057 82.60% Germany 36,033 76.21% United Kingdom 34,920 73.85% France 34,077 72.07% Spain 29,742 62.90% Italy 29,392 62.16%
Those are the major countries valid to compare. They all have government funded universal healthcare...except when they need good care.
@lchrisberg1 You forgot Norway, which has a higher per capita GDP than the US. It also has the highest standard of living in the world. It also has universal, government run healthcare system.
@ast453000 no beer is good at $20 lol......my point was that the government there is a bit of a nanny state...because they have socialised health care the government now tries to cut medical cost by limiting alcohol consumption......to achieve this alcohol is really really expensive.....the unintended consiquence of this is the illeagal drug consumption went up.....creating more problems
@danbuck333 Yea but there can be solutions to this. First of all beer doesn't cost $20 (sorry if you were exaggerating to make a point). If the war on drugs were ended, then drugs were taxed off the open market, it could compensate for w/e increased costs exist, just like they tax cigarettes more now to make smokers pay more of their higher healthcare bill.
@13lackLight I actually wasnt exaggerating to make a point...beer cost $20 at a bar...alcohol in norway is really fucken expensive....I agree we should end the war on drugs and tax those appropriately ...but that isnt going to happen ever!
Norway has private clinics as well, owned and operated by doctors. Unlike Obamacare, their public healthcare system is merely meant to supplement their comparitively low population's access to care, not price the free market out of the system entirely and put us all under the government thumb.
The Canadian health minister opened an illegal for-profit clinic for christ's sake, what more evidence do people need that this doesn't work?
The public option isn't subsidized by taxes? Now I know I am arguing with a fifth grader. That's what makes it a "public" option. In one sense you are right. Since we are now taking in only about 60 cents in taxes for every dollar we spend, a public option would be subsidized 40% by more debt and only 60% in taxes. That is until the economy crashes from the looming Greek/Irish/Portuguese like collapses.
Oh yeah, those 3 and the others about to crash all have universal healthcare.
You are right the public option is not subsidized by taxes - there is no public option. As proposed, how was it going to be funded? If you say taxes or printing more money, you get a cookie. The people in any public option would not be able to fund it with their premiums. That's why they are in the public option to begin with. To drive out private insurers, the gov't could simply lower premiums and subsidize it enough. That's Ryan's point.
@lchrisberg1 The public option was always supposed to be funded by premiums, without gvmnt subsidies. Even so, private insurance cos were scared to death about it bc they all knew they wouldn't be able to compete with it in open, fair competition. But even if the competition wasn't fair, why should we care? If a public option can provide equal or better care to the American ppl for less cost to them and the country as a whole, why shld we prioritize the interests of private cos over the ppl?
"But even if the competition wasn't fair, why should we care?"
Why SHOULDN'T we care? Can you provide any examples where a lack of competition (ie: monopoly) has benefited consumers?
"If a public option can provide equal or better care to the American ppl for less cost"
Please explain how you can provide equal or better quality for less cost in any industry? That's right you can't because it is fundamentally impossible. Cost & quality are directly proportional.
@cvict6 "Cost & quality are directly proportional" HAHAHA That's one of the funniest things I've ever heard... Tell that to all those people who invested in Bernard Madoff's funds, Enron, Lehman Brothers, etc. etc. Do you know anything about the real marketplace? As for your other question, ask any veteran whether he wants to drop his socialized healthcare for a private healthcare plan. VA is socialized healthcare. Stop watching Fox News, and find out what the facts are.
@cvict6 It depends what Ferrari you are talking about. There are some (old) Ferraries which are of much inferior quality to a Honda civic, and yet still cost more. (Pwned again.) The point is: your claim that "Cost & quality are directly proportional" is laughably false. All you have to do is think about it for about five seconds, and you can come up with any number of counter-examples. It's going to be tough to live that down. Better admit that you suck, and crawl back into your hole.
@ast453000 This is like arguing with someone who doesn't believe in gravity.
Here's another example: Rolex vs. Swatch watch.
Which is more expensive?
Which is better quality?
More examples:
Blu-ray player vs. DVD player
5 star restaurant vs. McDonalds
1st class vs. coach
Harvard vs. community college
If its so easy to think up dozens of counter examples where lower price = higher quality, why don't you go ahead and list dozens of counter examples. I'm done with this. Please don't have kids.
@cvict6 I've already listed several counter-examples to your "clown-theory". The fact that you haven't answered a single one of my counter-examples is evidence of your limited intellectual capacity. You keep on pointing to white swans to support your theory that "all swans are white". All I have to do is demonstrate that there is one black swan, which I have done several times already, and you are blown out of the water. I am honestly surprised that you don't have the intelligence to see this.
The unlimited resource of printing money and taxing is the unfair advantage he was referring to. You should stop posting such ignorance. At least you were smart enough not to use your real name...
@lchrisberg1 Printing money simply leads to inflation. So it's no resource at all, let alone an "unlimited resource".
You should stop posting such ignorance. At least you were smart enough not to use your real name... (See I can say that too. Insults are easy, but the problem is people can say them right back to you. So there's really no point. There's no net gain.)
My name is L Chris Berg. Hah! Printing money does not always lead to inflation. Have you been here the last two years. Uncle Ben has printed an extraordinary amount of money without causing significant inflation because the economy has crashed which normally causes deflation. Look at the history of the depression.
Saying that a private option can compete with a public option which can just increase the government subsidies by taking on more debt or raising taxes - which was the original argument - is just nonsense and idiocy.
You lied or misunderstood what he originally said and have countered with idiotic arguing points since. You are simply no longer worth my time...
@lchrisberg1 The fact that you think the public option relies on taxes does not show that you are stupid. Rather it shows that you are misinformed. The public option does not rely on taxes. Everyone knows this. What shows that you are stupid is that you continue to engage in name-calling. Most people have learned in kindergarden that name-calling is pointless because anyone can name-call right back. It's elementary game-theory, but it seems quite beyond your grasp.
Ryan wants to give MORE tax breaks to the rich so they can build more factories overseas. This is a continuation of the Bush years where 8 million jobs were
outsourced. If this nigger has his way none of us will have jobs, health care, or social security! America deserves better!
Sp a public option would be SO POPULAR AND EFFECTIVE THAT IT IS TOO DAMN GOOD FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE? i thought the goal of a docter was to help people not make money off them being sick?
I hate msnbc..they are worse than cnn. As a matter of fact, this is so bad it makes me like cnn. At least on cnn they don't blabber like a bunch of idiots like these stupid msnbc reporters.
Ryan and the GOP believe in choices!! That's right-if they have their way senior citizens will have to make lots of choices - one choice they'll have to make will be between health care and food! SUCKERS!!!
I pray to God that the republicans have their way. It will give me great pleasure to see all you inbred right wingers lose your jobs, homes, pensions and social security!
The GOP will privatize everything and that means you'll lose it- all of it! And that goes for your inbred kids too! Just PLEASE, PLEASE thinks of me and how happy I'll be when it happens! SUCKERS!
The private sector has not done a good job with healthcare ever since it became a monopoly... that was established years ago all of these wall street imbeciles have denied thousands if not millions of people who were paying for their coverage I could care less if they can't compete with each other all they care about is money not people so they can all go out of business... FUCK THEM....
Here is the dirty little SECRETE! MONEY GOES TO DEMOCRAT PARTY WE TAXPAYERS ARE FUNDING THIS BS!
Employees and political action committees of organizations that make up the big four special interests that own the Democratic Party contributed hundreds of millions of dollars in campaign contributions to the party's federal candidates in 2010.The top 20 labor unions, for example, gave more than $68 million in 2010, with 94 percent of the total going to Democrats and just 4 percent to Republicans.
If you have that simplistic of a thought in what I wrote, you lack the proper intelligence level to have an opinion. How do you come up with a "higher value placed on a car then someones health"? That's just asinine. You even acknowledged you "never said driving was a right". Well, living is and Americans shouldn't have to pay if we choose not to buy into a product just because we breathe. If that's the kind of government you want, move to England.
its about not paying a three hundred dollar co-pay for someone to tell me the milk is in aisle four. If you are required to have car insurance you should be required to have health insurance. Health care, and teeth that aren't rotten should be a right. not a privilege reserved for those with the means to pay. and if you dont want to pay extra taxes so that a guy making eight dollars an hour doesnt get mouth rot. then you are a messed individual.
That is a completely bogus analogy. First, the only auto insurance you are required to have is liability, and thats because some people can't drive for crap and cause accidents. So that is a guarantee that if you damage someone's property, THEY won't have to foot the bill or go through the trouble of filing a lawsuit. Second, driving is a privilage. If you want to drive, get insurance. Someone's health is soley his or her own business, not the governments.
@divisioneight Ryan's Roadmap is only ment to be used as a tool so he can say that we have a plan that makes SS and Medicare solvent. The Roadmap was never ment to actually be passed, if it was Paul Ryan would get thrown out on his ass. Peple do not want Socail Security and Medicare privatized. How many people have actually read his Roadmap? People want Dennis Kucinich's roadmap Medicare for everybody. Something that would actually work.
@genYprogressive: Would you please be so kind as to enlighten us as to exactly how we as a nation, already in debt up to three generations hence, are going to afford Mr. Kucinich's roadmap Medicare "for everybody"? Your kind and lucid explanation is greatly appreciated and welcome. My thanks.
@divisioneight Simply replace all HMOs with Single Payer like what Canada has. Unfoutunatly this crook Paul Ryan loves Insurance Companys so much and hates the American People so much that he wants us to spend twice the money for a system that is half as good. Canada does it better than America. Look at the WHO rankings where America is ranked 37th and Canada is 30th. Case Closed.
@genYprogressive: Did you know that Canada is also facing a budget deficit? Although they did not suffer the housing collapse like we did, their corporate structure is suffering under taxes, and the government has to raise cash to pay for their social services. Single payer is just what it is - you pay the government instead of the HMO's. Do you think that just because the Government's running healthcare, it will necessarily be less costlier than if private enterprise did it?
@divisioneight Canada has also had a budget freez on there system since 1989. There is a simple fix for there shortfall unlike Americas System. Damm right I trust a Gov payer system over a parasite insurance company. Canada is doing very well because of there system they have recovered 81% of the jobs they lost in the recession. There taxes are a little higher but are you trying to say you would rather pay $1400 in premiums than an extra $200 in taxes? I think not.
@divisioneight Lets look at Americas Healthcare system. It is the most expensive in the world. 47 million have no coverage. 63 thousand die each year because insurance companys don't give them coveradge. It is ranked 37th in the world for a reason. THOSE ARE YOUR GODDAM DEATH PANNELS. The bloodsucking HMOs that decide who lives and who dies.
@genYprogressive: Dear sir or madam: Please refrain your emotions for a spell if you would. "Death panels" are a political term - call it what you will, but it's rationing of healthcare. The insurance companies do it now, overseas, the state run governments do it was well. There's no need for hysterics and name calling here. The question is, do you trust your Federal government that much to put your life, and your family's lives in their hands? Thank you.
@divisioneight Do you want me to debunk Ryan's Roadmap point by point and prove to you that it is nothing more than a rehash of Bush's plan to privatize SS? This is very easy for me.
@genYprogressive: Thank you for your kind offer. Yes, would you please enlighten us with your points that argue against Mr. Ryan's proposal. i am unaware of any convictions or arrests of Mr. Ryan so why do you label him a crook? Is Charlie Rangel not a crook just because he's a Democrat? Let's not degenerate here. I don't agree a lick on Kucinich's policies, but I won't label him an idiot or a crook. He's an American too. Progressive = Enlightened and informed, not bitter and hateful.
What is not heard from the supporters of State Socialized medicine is the cost. Many nations who have centralized health care, are facing larger and larger costs. Socialized medicine does not necessarily reduce the cost of medical care except only by limiting it's use and distribution. The cost of an inoculation won't change under Obama-care, only who will be eligible to receive it. That's not being discussed because that is an inconvenient truth that Democrats hope us dumb Americans miss.
@divisioneight 1. What happened in Greece has everything to to with international bankers and NOTHING to do with there social programs. 2. We spend more on healthcare than any other countrys and tens of thousands are dying every year. THAT IS THE INCONVENIENT TRUTH. The answer is to put the insurance companys out of buisness and replace them with Single Payer.
@genYprogressive: you mean destroy an over-regulated private industry in a aggressive government takeover and create a monopoly run by the Federal Government to administer our health and hospital needs. Look deep into the Constitution sir, and you will not see any writ or precedent that allows the Government to take over an industry entirely as you profess. Unless the Soviet Union of old is a more beneficial government for you than what we have here.
@divisioneight YOU FAIL. Health Insurance is not the whole Health Care Industry. The insurance companys have little if any regulation. The only solution that hucksters like Paul Ryan have offered is to privatize Medicare and SS. Medicare works, for-profit insurance does not. Forget it that debate is over. There is a reson that Paul Ryan's Roadmap has only 13 co-sponsors out of all the Republicans in the house.
@genYprogressive: Health care includes regulating what the doctors can and can't do. Right now it's the insurance companies that limit care - you certainly can agree to that! Next, it'll be the Feds who limit care. Like the old song goes, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss". What makes you think that the Federal Government can handle such a task efficiently or better than folks who have been doing so for years? Where did you hear that health ins. companies aren't regulated? Thanks.
@genYprogressive: Rep. Ryan had only 12 supporters because of the weak and feeble Republican party that is trying to garner popular support by acting like Democrats. Micheal Steele's a moron, and we both can agree on that I believe. What's missing is common-sense moral values, and this guy Ryan has got a pair that the rest of the weenie 'publicans on the Hill don't have because they are too afraid of Pelosi and her gold gavel. You can insult the 'publicans all you want - they deserve it!
lol Notice when in politics or media if you get owned, the line that will save you from further humiliation is "We'll continue this discussion later".
Single Payer costs less and covers everybody. Paul Ryan is aginst this but he wants to use tax payer money to pay insurance companys to provide coverage. PAUL RYAN IS A SICK FUCKING JOKE.
@genYprogressive It only costs less if you can ration care. It would cost hundreds of thousands per person to do everything we can at end life, so instead of letting each individual weigh the benefits of care vs. cost, under single payer everyone would demand infinite care and the government would decide where the line is drawn. No thank you.
@hintonmj I lived in the UK and there is no ratioing there. We payed less and everyone was covered and got good care. Under Single Payer in Canada there are only wait times in certian places or if there are people that need care more urgently.
People are getting killed by insurance companys in Canada. Here over 45 thousand are killed by insurance companys per year. By any standard Single Payer beats the shit out of insurance blood suckers.
@genYprogressive I understand you may have had only good experiences under single payer, but the fact is, hospitals are no longer competing for your business. So, you may be lucky and only interact with people who are benevolent enough to give you good service, but everyone doesn't have that service under socialist medicine. There are many horror stories of british and other socialized medicine that just don't happen in America. I prefer not to be one of those people
@hintonmj WRONG. Obviously people do get exellent service under nationalized care. Under the NHS in the UK people live longer and have less of every disease. Are you even aware that in the US 62% of bankrupcys are from medical debt? didn't thinks so. How many medical bankrupcys are there in Britian and Canada? ZERO. Look it up. Americas healthcare system is ranked 37th while Canada is 30 and Britian is 18. Americas healthcare cannot lick the muddy boots of the British NHS.
@divisioneight Many people try to say that US has the highest cancer survival rates in the world are using this as an argument aginst the other countrys healthcare systems like the UK and Canada. The simple truth is that terminal cancer survival is higher in the US. ONLY FOR THE PEOPLE THAT GET TREATMENT. If you are one of the 47 Million that insurance companys do not cover then you are sit out of luck. This means we have the best emergincy care system. Not the best Healthcare system.
@genYprogressive : The 47 million number was generated by the Democrats who rammed this bill through. It is contested by many and includes students in college, 20-somethings who opt not to have insurance, and unemployed without insurance. Look at Greece, and other countries facing economic hardships because they can't foot the bill to insure their citizens so they have to hit up those citizens with high taxes to pay for coverage, or severely limit the coverage. That's an inconvenient truth
@Ramiromasters Do you want me to go through everything that is wrong with Paul Ryan's roadmap? He says that it balances the budget, the problem is that it does it on the backs of the poor. Insurance Companys alredy kill to many people without his roadmap in place. The fact is that Paul Ryan helped create Medicare Part D to destroy Medicare so he could say that Medicare does not work.
Awwww.... the poor insurance companies won't be able to compete. You mean, they won't be able to drop cancer patients anymore? That's just sad. You mean, they won't be able to drop people if they are short by one penny on their premium? That's even sadder. When is everyone going to realize the insurance companies are there for one reason. TO GOUGE YOU!!!!! Affordable health insurance is a moral question not a free market one.
@YesYou123333 you should do some of your own research and see how many people really get dropped because they have cancer. Helathcare is the moral question - not insurance coverage. Also, a vast majority of the people pay premiums through payroll deductions - how do you suppose they become pennies short of premiums? C'mon, man. Let's stop the rhetoric and look at the issues for what they are. I agree reform is needed; but the conjecture you offer holds no water.
@RedRedOC You should experience the Health Insurance Industry more often. The sooner we ride ourselves of these leeches, the better. The financial incentive has to be removed from health care. If not, only more people will suffer. Paul Ryan is nothing but an Health Insurance Industry stooge.
@YesYou123333 Thnks for the reponse. I experience enough of the health insurance industry. I audit their clinical quality initiatives for a living. Go to NCQA.ORG you'll see how accountable HMOs are when it comes to ensuring healthcare &services quality for their enrollees. I don't mean to be arbitrary; Itjust makes me sad to see the entire industry get generalized into crooked organizations. Not the case at all. There are plenty of healt plans who mean well for their members.
@RedRedOC Pardon my response. But, BULL!!!! I have been dealing with the Insurance Industry for 10 years taking care of ailing family members. Sure, they offer a good service if you don't get sick. If you do, they will treat you like a pariah. They will look for any excuse to deny you benefits and raise your rates. I don't see them bending over backwards to help you find solutions to your problems. They have one motive and it ain't the care of the consumer but the almighty dollar.
@YesYou123333 I disagree with you but respect your position. If you feel that way, I can't change it. I'm just curious if you really mean the premiums are going up or your out of pocket costs have increased. It impresses me how doctors and hospitals get none of the blame for the high cost of helath care. I yield to you for last thoughts.
1) Take the financial incentive out of health care. (Non-Profits)
2) One area where I agree with Republicans- TORT Reform. We can't allow somebody who inadvertently receives 6 stitches instead of 5 to collect 10 million dollars.
I've been saying it for months this man needs to run for president, ranking member of the budget committee, he has a plan for reducing entitlement spending for all you liberal hacks who think he's in the party of no, Paul Ryan 2012!!!!
You can almost hear the MSNBC producer screaming "cut him off!!! He's using facts and the truth and he's making what's her name look like a huge clown!!!"
Paul Ryan has said that there should be no Public Option because for profit insurance companys could not compete because a Gov run option. Paul Ryan is basically admitting that the for profit provider system is so costly and inefficient that they have been a miserable failure.
On this video when Paul Ryan says that he has a private provider he doesn't mention that they are non profit prividers. People in his income bracket do not even need insurers.
@genYprogressive@genYprogressive What Paul Ryan is saying is that you 'can't compete when your opponent sets the rules.' When the federal government raises the taxes on private insurance plans by 40% and creates new mandates, it will force them out of business (sound familiar with the housing crisis?: government forces banks to give mortgages to low income families with poor credit=> home owners cannot pay mortgage=> default or subsidy from government run Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac).
The rules that were put in place under the public option are that it would cover no more than 10% and the other thing that would go with that would be that the U.S. would do what every other country does which is ether import cheaper drugs or use its purchasing power to lower costs. This is something that drug companys and car administrators have fought.
PRIVATE SECTOR IS NOT THE ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM. THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS THE PROBLEM.
@genYprogressive A "public option" if you want to call it that, is not really an option when government has deliberately taxed and regulated insurance companies out of business. Also, do you have the "Option" to pay taxes? Just ask the IRS. Mr. Ryan does not mention medicare and medicaid (which is being cut by this bill) in this interview, but he has time and time again.
@genYprogressive Medicare and Medicaid are bloated beuracracies, DENY people coverage everyday, and are literally trillions in debt. Now, looks like we'll all be on medicaid and have no choice, YAY!!!
@badger5566 The big failure that Paul Ryan makes when saying that we cannot have another entitlement program because Medicare is going broke. He will not say why it is going broke because it has to work through it private system. America is the only country that does not use its purchasing power to negotioate lower drug prices or import them.
The administrators have poked even more holes in it. Your average ambulance ride is $1400 here and only $44 in Canada and you want more deregulation.
@genYprogressive America the only country not using purchasing power to negotiate drug prices? U make it up. At least Hong Kong and Japan don't. They have free markets and no insane litigation against drug companies. That's why they are cheaper. They have public health care. Everyone will not be denied for hospital service. But if you want to see specialist, pls wait for 15 months. For medical routines, 90% people pay out of pocket. Our HC system is too generous.
@econfkw You are about 50% correct. Yes it is true that Japan's healthcare is much more privatized than ours is. They have more for-profit hospitals than we do and they have over 3000 private insurance payers, but every single one of there payers is non-profit. Also there asministrative costs are heavily regulated. Thats why an MRI costs $98 in Japan insted of $1500 like is does here. It has little to do with regulating drug companys.
He says the private sector cannot compete because a Gov run option does not have to pay taxes or make a profit.
Also Paul Ryan doesn't even mention that the proposed public option would take in no more than 10% of the people. And these are people in the lowest income gap that for profit insurance companys don't want to cover anyway.
@genYprogressive Actually people still will pay for it poor, middle class, rich because of the tax increase on other commodities, and income. I will have to look again but 9% of a persons income will be taxed on their paycheck with this bill. Also this bill forces a no turn away policy for even private insurance companies. I don't know how much you know about the insurance industry, but 1 month premium vs. 1 month chome/cancer treatment can break a company.
@ZeInfiniteEnigma I am not sure where you are getting at with this. Do you have the same veiw as me where you think that this bill does not do enough and there should ether be at least a public option or a Medicare Expantion? Or do you not want any change to the status quo at all?
@genYprogressive I am strongly against this bill, but I do believe there needs to be changes. This bill is a joke, and is going to raise deficit. This bill also contains numerous other items that have absolutely nothing to do with Health Care Reform. There are numerous other options out there but people are too lazy to look. :)
@genYprogressive - "Paul Ryans answer is to turn the goverment payer systems that worked into for profit systems that would make the deficit worse."
That statement you made, about "govt payer systems that worked," is so patently false, misinformed, and inaccurate that it is laughable.
If you honestly think Medicaid & Medicare "work" then you are lost in a fog of either idiocy or cluelessness... no offense, thats just fact. Medicare & Medicaid are expensive epic failures
Bolgernow, I doubt if you even hold a GED listening to your analysis of how markets work. By definition, any regulation of a market is NOT free market. When the very entity that regulates a market then enters that very same market, it is definitely not free. You say that the Govt Option is fair and competes fairly. Lets apply that lesson to housing. Do Fannie and Freddie ring any bells? Limitlessly subsidized entities bleeding money with no accountability. What's the worst that can happen?
Insults without solutions. You have nothing else to offer this country. You're acting like a small child who didn't get their way in the 2008 elections...
Your views drove this country off a cliff for 8 years by starting two wars, raising government spending by 59%, & responsible for one of the worst economic collapses in American history since the great Depression.
Now you're screaming for the keys back to the car.
No. We need solutions, not lies, insults, & division...
Obama, Reid and Pelosi have learned nothing from history; they are as blind to their own tyranny as were King George and the British Parliament. They show no comprehension of the moral outrage that will ignite in this country if they ram through ObamaCare, a bill that requires taxpayer funding for abortion, usurps individual rights to choose their own personal health care options, and saddles the nation with a growing flood of debt which will drown our children and grandchildren.
@rascal95113, "ram" through? It's been well over one years.
And "saddles a nation" is ALREADY saddled. We are in two wars, had an economic meltdown, owe money to China, & all need to pull together to survive. You solution "fuck em, I got mine". Not a very good place to be IMO. Your blind intolerant hate is your undoing. Good luck...
Hold a BA in Business Administration with a concentration in Marketing & minor in Economics. Very proud of the hard work I put in.
Always willing to listen & learn things. That's the difference between you & me. You use only insults, never addressing the specifics facts I presented. Sad really.
Really? 1st he & every other GOP'er scream Healthcare reform is Socialist. Then Marxist. Then Nazism. Then it's "pull the plug on grandma", then "your coverage will end". All lies. NOW he claims healthcare reform is Anti-market?
He's saying the insurance companies don't want to compete. He only favors a free market that favors insurance companies. That's not a free market then.
This is the same guy at the summit who disagrees with the CBO's #'ers. Insane
It doesn't make sense to say "healthcare reform is anti-market". That phrase alone is incoherent. Rather, "Public option is anti-market" is coherent.
It sounds like you're confusing the phrase "healthcare reform" with "single payer/public option". He's arguing against single payer option, deeming IT anti-market.
Incorrect. The Public Option is totally free market. It's putting out a fair product among other products. If the market isn't providing coverage for 35-47 million people by pricing them out of the market, it's broken. Their profit models are insane. Look at Wellpoints balance sheet. The PO keeps the market in check with choice.
What if people took the PO, & didn't like it? The market spoke, big insurance wins. Big insurance knows that might not be the case, & are scared. They should be
@ShishirYerramilli
100% agree. Obamacare takes 500 billion from Medicare to Obamacare. Eventually if not repealed, Obamacare will turn into a one payer system where the Government is in charge of health care for everyone! The federal government will Underpay Doctors and Surgeons and people will stop going into medicine!
crispycob 5 days ago
Ryan is too articulate to be elected president.
nhl555 1 month ago
THere is no such thing as a "Market Solution" and there never will be.
Paul Ryan helped create this problem when he helped pass Medicare Part D & C and now he says the only way to fix it is tu turn it over to the parasitic HMOs
Paul Ryan is a serial liar.
genYprogressive83 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Paul Ryan is just another pretty-faced shill for Wall Street.
Tea anyone?
zerogullibility 2 months ago
So basically hes saying its not fair they have a better deal dont want to get beat out step your game up you cant you lose oh well free market should be free for all just think if the government had buisnesses to begin with what if they opened up walmart and things of that nature maybe we wouldnt have so much debt.
Deranged360 2 months ago
@Deranged360 You really dont know what you are talking about. If the govt is involved with healthcare, it is not a free market. The govt runs all of its entities at a lost and that will undercut basic econ principles that no company can compete with. Obamacare is an over reaching govt program that has already cost billions more than advertise and will bankrupt the country and reduce the quality of health--it promises more than it could ever achieve. Oh, It was difficult to follow your grammer.
joskemom 2 months ago
Paul Ryan is brilliant
lareneg72 3 months ago
Ryan hit nail on head
BuddWX 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Lets talk about whats really wrong with this country! FOX NEWS is a Propaganda machine owned by tabloid sleeze lord "Rupert Murdock", & used to try to trick Christians and conservatives into believing the stupidest & meanest things imaginable! the amount of lies told on that channel in one hour could fill a large swimming pool! THATS whats killing this country, mass amounts of voters being filled all day long with non-facts and outright lies by Fox News! FIX THAT! and you fix the problem!!!!
samantha11363 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Paul Ryan is a nigger! His district has the highest unemployment rate in Wisconsin, one of the highest in the country. Way to go meat head! You'll get that lobbying job for sure!
TheKmbt 4 months ago
HANDS OFF MEDICARE, SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICAID!!!!!
pjmgame 5 months ago
@pjmgame Do the exact opposite Paul Ryan! Don't leave me with the debt created by previous irresponsible generations!
Thatmakessense356 4 months ago
@Thatmakessense356 Ryan wants to get rid of medicare
pjmgame 4 months ago
@pjmgame It's a broken, failed system! It won't be there for me when I retire but I'm still pumping money into it! Tell barack obama and the other liberals to lay off medicare because they stole over $500 billion from it to pass obamacare. Oh and obamacare will require the government to ration medicare to work. So dont yell at Paul Ryan he is trying to keep medicare alive for me to use.
mandy26lez 1 month ago
@mandy26lez Its NOT a broken system. Liberals want to LOWER the retirement age. Conservatives want to RAISE the retirement age. Tell me...who's the enemy here?
pjmgame 1 month ago
@pjmgame Lowering the retirement age would kill medicare even faster you dolt!
mandy26lez 1 month ago
@pjmgame You idiot, conservatives want to raise the retirement age because social security was set in place in a different time where the life expectancy and therefore retirement age was much lower than it is now.
Now people live longer and retire later,therefore it makes sense to raise it.But then common sense,facts,logic and deduction are not friends to liberals!
ShishirYerramilli 1 week ago
Ryan was OWNED
pjmgame 5 months ago
@pjmgame Wow, what were you watching?
Monteytey 4 months ago
@Monteytey This video. Also Ryan wants to cut tax cuts for the rich. WOW and you support this man?
pjmgame 4 months ago
@pjmgame and what do you want to do? has it even gotten anywhere near your head that if you keep taxing the rich (the people, who create work places, the people with small but succeful business), then they would simply close down their busines and leave 400 people witout a job. overtaxing is NOT the solution for any crisis, cutting spending is. Example: a guy with 5 pizzarias gets overtaxted, shuts down the pizzarias, leaves people witout a job, it doesn't make sence to overtax,not now, not ever
Bastuun 3 months ago
@Bastuun That's because their fucking greedy. They have more than enough money for them and their familes. The pizzera is a SMALL business. CEO"S REPRESENT GLOBAL CORPORATIONS!!! And lets not forget that Obama EXTENDED the Bush tax cuts.
pjmgame 3 months ago
Dip-shit Liberals always try to drown out logic when it is being spoon fed to them.
The442nd 5 months ago
You should look up "msnbc mo brooks" also. This network is stupid.
ThePelicans44 5 months ago
paul ryan destroys this female!!
a13solute 6 months ago
schooled.... Go Ryan!!
nilofc 6 months ago
NOTICE how quickly the producers have that black dude jump in to interrupt Rep. Ryan once they realize he was in the middle of tearing that smug bitch's assumption to shreds.
They promptly ended the conversation, they could not have a conservative taking their dumb yes-woman to school on air like that. Better luck next time you useful idiot!!
bobshenix 6 months ago
vanden Huevel is an arrogant socialist scumbag.
tarossi400 6 months ago
schooled...
bomac10000 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
RON PAUL IS GOING TO BE PROSECUTED BY UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! ITS UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO CALL AMERICAN PEOPLE INVADERS AND INITIATORS OF WARS.
RON PAUL SAID THE USA INVADES COUNTRIES AND STARTS WARS, WHICH GIVES USA A BAD REPUTATION AROUND THE WORLD , THEREFORE IT IS CONSIDERED A CRIME . A US CITIZEN WHO,
WAS BORN IN USA CANT GO AGAINST GOVERNMENT POLICIES WHICH MIGHT THREATEN THE FUTURE OF THE COUNTRY'S SECURITY .
RON PAUL WILL BE PROSECUTED BY US GOVERNMENT!
OBAMA 2012!
OBAMA 2012!
democratsaresmart 8 months ago
Comment removed
ast453000 8 months ago
Comment removed
ast453000 8 months ago
You guys, I'm getting tired of explaining the same things over and over. The simple fact is that the US pays more than twice (as a percentage of GDP) what almost every other industrialized nation pays for its healthcare. And it has some of the worst outcomes (on a broad range of indicators). We pay twice as much and we get the worst outcomes. Every other industrialized nation has some form of public healthcare. These are facts. Look it up. Google it. And God bless.
ast453000 8 months ago
Comment removed
ast453000 8 months ago
#OWNED
DashboardRocks59 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Thanks to liberal policies America can no longer afford to pay for medicare, social security, unemployment and many other services. We also need to lower the minimum wage to $2/hr in order to compete with China and bring jobs back home. Fiscally responsible conservatives like Paul Ryan and John Boehner know this and are currently
working to end these wasteful handout programs and bring the minimum wage down so that America can be great again. God bless the GOP!
GOPkicksbutt 9 months ago
Comment removed
stringlov 9 months ago 16
Paul Ryan lies!!!
centenosparky 9 months ago
@centenosparky Typical liberal! "Paul Ryan lies!!!" with nothing to back it up. You've made a charge, now explain exactly what he has lied about and prove it. How about a counter-argument rather than just slinging mud. Typical liberal. Attack the person...never, ever truly argue substance.
LiberalsHateFreedom 8 months ago
@centenosparky Worm, Paul Ryan says truths your lib-ears can't process... that does not equate to 'lies'.
BigBadSeattleLad 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The one good thing about Ryan's budget proposal is that it will put a lot of right wingers out of thier jobs and homes. They'll have to move in with the kids who won't have jobs either. Many will die from lack of proper affordable health care. I'm all for that.
TheKmbt 9 months ago
So let's see, Ryan's argument is that the public option would more efficient and cost effective than any private company, and therefore it would be unfair force private companies to compete with it. Sorry Ryan, that's the opposite of capitalism. He's more interested in the welfare of the insurance companies than he is in that of the American people.
(p.s. The only degree Ryan has is a BA from Miami University of Ohio. And he's the Republicans' "smart guy".)
ast453000 10 months ago
@ast453000
How stupid are you? Really. Ryan said nothing of the sort. A private plan cannot compete, idiot, because a public plan has unlimited resources....taxes. Private companies have limited resources, stockholders. The public plan can undercut prices with the taxpayers making up the difference with taxes until the private companies are driven out of business. Where is your degree from , Cracker Jack?
lchrisberg1 10 months ago
@lchrisberg1 1. Taxes are not an unlimited resource. 2. If the public plan cost customers or countries more, then people and countries would prefer private plans. The simple fact is that Healthcare in the US costs roughly twice as much per capita and has some of the worst outcomes compared to every other modern industrialized country. And almost every other modern industrialized country has some form of universal healthcare.
How stupid are you? Idiot. (See I can say that to you too.)
ast453000 10 months ago
@ast453000
Taxes and printing of cash are unlimited for all practical purposes. Ben can always print enough cash and the government can always tax Americans enough to drive private insurers out of business. No doubt there. Point me. Idiot you.
So now let's deal with the next set of idiocy you spew. "If the public plan cost customers or countries more, then people and countries would prefer private plans." Huh? Seriously? Am I arguing with a fifth grader? What is your bedtime?
lchrisberg1 10 months ago
@ast453000 Your point (2) above.
Yes, Americans spend more per capita on healthcare than others. That is because:
1. We are wealthier and have a higher per capita income.
2. We don't ration health care like universal healthcare countries.
People in Canada and Britain wait forever for procedures we walk in an hammer out in a day or two because our system is more efficient. We spend more on it because we have more income and we get more healthcare.
Why do the others come here for healthcare?
lchrisberg1 10 months ago
@lchrisberg1 Nice try. This is really funny, and shows you really haven't done any research on the subject. It seems you get your "information" from Fox news, or some such equivalent. Readers can judge for themselves. Just google "healthcare comparison by country", and look at a few of the studies. They all say roughly the same thing. And it's not because "we're wealthier and have a higher per capita income" - the latter part of which isn't even true in all cases.
ast453000 10 months ago
@ast453000
Direct from the Wiki. Per Capita GDP. I added the %s but go ahead and recalculate them if you like. United States 47,284 100.00% Canada 39,057 82.60% Germany 36,033 76.21% United Kingdom 34,920 73.85% France 34,077 72.07% Spain 29,742 62.90% Italy 29,392 62.16%
Those are the major countries valid to compare. They all have government funded universal healthcare...except when they need good care.
lchrisberg1 10 months ago
@lchrisberg1 You forgot Norway, which has a higher per capita GDP than the US. It also has the highest standard of living in the world. It also has universal, government run healthcare system.
ast453000 10 months ago
@ast453000 it also cost over 20$ for a beer at a bar
danbuck333 10 months ago
@danbuck333 Yeah. It's good beer though.
ast453000 8 months ago
@ast453000 no beer is good at $20 lol......my point was that the government there is a bit of a nanny state...because they have socialised health care the government now tries to cut medical cost by limiting alcohol consumption......to achieve this alcohol is really really expensive.....the unintended consiquence of this is the illeagal drug consumption went up.....creating more problems
danbuck333 7 months ago
@danbuck333 Yea but there can be solutions to this. First of all beer doesn't cost $20 (sorry if you were exaggerating to make a point). If the war on drugs were ended, then drugs were taxed off the open market, it could compensate for w/e increased costs exist, just like they tax cigarettes more now to make smokers pay more of their higher healthcare bill.
13lackLight 6 months ago
@13lackLight I actually wasnt exaggerating to make a point...beer cost $20 at a bar...alcohol in norway is really fucken expensive....I agree we should end the war on drugs and tax those appropriately ...but that isnt going to happen ever!
danbuck333 6 months ago
@ast453000
Norway has private clinics as well, owned and operated by doctors. Unlike Obamacare, their public healthcare system is merely meant to supplement their comparitively low population's access to care, not price the free market out of the system entirely and put us all under the government thumb.
The Canadian health minister opened an illegal for-profit clinic for christ's sake, what more evidence do people need that this doesn't work?
pimpdalyrical 9 months ago
@lchrisberg1 p.s. the public option is not subsidized by taxes, so your point is moot.
ast453000 10 months ago
@ast453000
The public option isn't subsidized by taxes? Now I know I am arguing with a fifth grader. That's what makes it a "public" option. In one sense you are right. Since we are now taking in only about 60 cents in taxes for every dollar we spend, a public option would be subsidized 40% by more debt and only 60% in taxes. That is until the economy crashes from the looming Greek/Irish/Portuguese like collapses.
Oh yeah, those 3 and the others about to crash all have universal healthcare.
lchrisberg1 10 months ago
Respond to this video...
You are right the public option is not subsidized by taxes - there is no public option. As proposed, how was it going to be funded? If you say taxes or printing more money, you get a cookie. The people in any public option would not be able to fund it with their premiums. That's why they are in the public option to begin with. To drive out private insurers, the gov't could simply lower premiums and subsidize it enough. That's Ryan's point.
lchrisberg1 10 months ago
@lchrisberg1 The public option was always supposed to be funded by premiums, without gvmnt subsidies. Even so, private insurance cos were scared to death about it bc they all knew they wouldn't be able to compete with it in open, fair competition. But even if the competition wasn't fair, why should we care? If a public option can provide equal or better care to the American ppl for less cost to them and the country as a whole, why shld we prioritize the interests of private cos over the ppl?
ast453000 10 months ago
@ast453000
"But even if the competition wasn't fair, why should we care?"
Why SHOULDN'T we care? Can you provide any examples where a lack of competition (ie: monopoly) has benefited consumers?
"If a public option can provide equal or better care to the American ppl for less cost"
Please explain how you can provide equal or better quality for less cost in any industry? That's right you can't because it is fundamentally impossible. Cost & quality are directly proportional.
cvict6 10 months ago
Comment removed
ast453000 8 months ago
@cvict6 "Cost & quality are directly proportional" HAHAHA That's one of the funniest things I've ever heard... Tell that to all those people who invested in Bernard Madoff's funds, Enron, Lehman Brothers, etc. etc. Do you know anything about the real marketplace? As for your other question, ask any veteran whether he wants to drop his socialized healthcare for a private healthcare plan. VA is socialized healthcare. Stop watching Fox News, and find out what the facts are.
ast453000 8 months ago
@ast453000
Which car is better quality: a Ferrari or a Honda civic?
Which car costs more: a Ferrari or a Honda civic?
Do YOU know anything about the real marketplace?
cvict6 8 months ago
Comment removed
ast453000 8 months ago
@cvict6 It depends what Ferrari you are talking about. There are some (old) Ferraries which are of much inferior quality to a Honda civic, and yet still cost more. (Pwned again.) The point is: your claim that "Cost & quality are directly proportional" is laughably false. All you have to do is think about it for about five seconds, and you can come up with any number of counter-examples. It's going to be tough to live that down. Better admit that you suck, and crawl back into your hole.
ast453000 8 months ago
@ast453000 This is like arguing with someone who doesn't believe in gravity.
Here's another example: Rolex vs. Swatch watch.
Which is more expensive?
Which is better quality?
More examples:
Blu-ray player vs. DVD player
5 star restaurant vs. McDonalds
1st class vs. coach
Harvard vs. community college
If its so easy to think up dozens of counter examples where lower price = higher quality, why don't you go ahead and list dozens of counter examples. I'm done with this. Please don't have kids.
cvict6 8 months ago
@cvict6 I've already listed several counter-examples to your "clown-theory". The fact that you haven't answered a single one of my counter-examples is evidence of your limited intellectual capacity. You keep on pointing to white swans to support your theory that "all swans are white". All I have to do is demonstrate that there is one black swan, which I have done several times already, and you are blown out of the water. I am honestly surprised that you don't have the intelligence to see this.
ast453000 8 months ago
Comment removed
ast453000 8 months ago
@ast453000
The unlimited resource of printing money and taxing is the unfair advantage he was referring to. You should stop posting such ignorance. At least you were smart enough not to use your real name...
lchrisberg1 10 months ago
@lchrisberg1 Printing money simply leads to inflation. So it's no resource at all, let alone an "unlimited resource".
You should stop posting such ignorance. At least you were smart enough not to use your real name... (See I can say that too. Insults are easy, but the problem is people can say them right back to you. So there's really no point. There's no net gain.)
ast453000 10 months ago
@ast453000
My name is L Chris Berg. Hah! Printing money does not always lead to inflation. Have you been here the last two years. Uncle Ben has printed an extraordinary amount of money without causing significant inflation because the economy has crashed which normally causes deflation. Look at the history of the depression.
lchrisberg1 10 months ago
@ast453000
Saying that a private option can compete with a public option which can just increase the government subsidies by taking on more debt or raising taxes - which was the original argument - is just nonsense and idiocy.
You lied or misunderstood what he originally said and have countered with idiotic arguing points since. You are simply no longer worth my time...
lchrisberg1 10 months ago
@lchrisberg1 The fact that you think the public option relies on taxes does not show that you are stupid. Rather it shows that you are misinformed. The public option does not rely on taxes. Everyone knows this. What shows that you are stupid is that you continue to engage in name-calling. Most people have learned in kindergarden that name-calling is pointless because anyone can name-call right back. It's elementary game-theory, but it seems quite beyond your grasp.
ast453000 10 months ago
Ryan wants to give MORE tax breaks to the rich so they can build more factories overseas. This is a continuation of the Bush years where 8 million jobs were
outsourced. If this nigger has his way none of us will have jobs, health care, or social security! America deserves better!
Vetwolf13 10 months ago
Sp a public option would be SO POPULAR AND EFFECTIVE THAT IT IS TOO DAMN GOOD FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE? i thought the goal of a docter was to help people not make money off them being sick?
Im glad you agree Mr. Ryan
bryarcole4 10 months ago
I hate msnbc..they are worse than cnn. As a matter of fact, this is so bad it makes me like cnn. At least on cnn they don't blabber like a bunch of idiots like these stupid msnbc reporters.
daconqueror101 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ryan and the GOP believe in choices!! That's right-if they have their way senior citizens will have to make lots of choices - one choice they'll have to make will be between health care and food! SUCKERS!!!
Vetwolf13 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I pray to God that the republicans have their way. It will give me great pleasure to see all you inbred right wingers lose your jobs, homes, pensions and social security!
The GOP will privatize everything and that means you'll lose it- all of it! And that goes for your inbred kids too! Just PLEASE, PLEASE thinks of me and how happy I'll be when it happens! SUCKERS!
Vetwolf13 10 months ago
Is he telling us that Obamacare is actually better than private-healthcare at 0:34?
darwincity 11 months ago
@darwincity
No. Read my earlier post. You must have gone to CJU as well.
lchrisberg1 10 months ago
What happened to the rest of the video??? typical republicans can't show the entire story...
xxGizmo05xx 11 months ago
@xxGizmo05xx
what do you mean what happened to the rest of the video ? It was over. Jesus dude are you that incoherent ?
cathrasher1974 11 months ago
@cathrasher1974
there is more to this story, but you fox news viewers wouldn't know anything on that now would you.. bunch of goons...
xxGizmo05xx 11 months ago
@cathrasher1974
The private sector has not done a good job with healthcare ever since it became a monopoly... that was established years ago all of these wall street imbeciles have denied thousands if not millions of people who were paying for their coverage I could care less if they can't compete with each other all they care about is money not people so they can all go out of business... FUCK THEM....
xxGizmo05xx 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Here is the dirty little SECRETE! MONEY GOES TO DEMOCRAT PARTY WE TAXPAYERS ARE FUNDING THIS BS!
Employees and political action committees of organizations that make up the big four special interests that own the Democratic Party contributed hundreds of millions of dollars in campaign contributions to the party's federal candidates in 2010.The top 20 labor unions, for example, gave more than $68 million in 2010, with 94 percent of the total going to Democrats and just 4 percent to Republicans.
republicansrule 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Here's the real deal on the State of the Union speech
State of the Union -- Let's hear it Mr President
wolfpass4 1 year ago
I love that they try to cut off Rep Ryan while he's in the middle of destroying their spurious argument, but he talks right through them.
tgoyer 1 year ago
Paul Ryan is always spot on, an excellent commentator, cutting straight through all the liberal bias BS.
jimbad05 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If you have that simplistic of a thought in what I wrote, you lack the proper intelligence level to have an opinion. How do you come up with a "higher value placed on a car then someones health"? That's just asinine. You even acknowledged you "never said driving was a right". Well, living is and Americans shouldn't have to pay if we choose not to buy into a product just because we breathe. If that's the kind of government you want, move to England.
zeewaker 1 year ago
its about not paying a three hundred dollar co-pay for someone to tell me the milk is in aisle four. If you are required to have car insurance you should be required to have health insurance. Health care, and teeth that aren't rotten should be a right. not a privilege reserved for those with the means to pay. and if you dont want to pay extra taxes so that a guy making eight dollars an hour doesnt get mouth rot. then you are a messed individual.
jbeihl1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
That is a completely bogus analogy. First, the only auto insurance you are required to have is liability, and thats because some people can't drive for crap and cause accidents. So that is a guarantee that if you damage someone's property, THEY won't have to foot the bill or go through the trouble of filing a lawsuit. Second, driving is a privilage. If you want to drive, get insurance. Someone's health is soley his or her own business, not the governments.
zeewaker 1 year ago 3
ok so what your telling me is that there is a higher value placed on a car then someones health. and i never said driving was a right.
jbeihl1 1 year ago
Ron Paul/ Paul Ryan 2012. 'nuff said.
cliffy827 1 year ago
Let's look at some government run monopoly's out there:
Public Mass Transit - expensive, inefficient, union-dominated, not user friendly.
Post Office: decent service, cost of stamps keep rising in the face of competition from email, texting, online banking etc. (gee I wonder why).
IRS: need anything more be said? If you like these guys, you're a glutton for punishment.
With most everything else, market-based solutions work best and control costs. When the Gov't interferes, cost go up.
divisioneight 1 year ago
@divisioneight Ryan's Roadmap is only ment to be used as a tool so he can say that we have a plan that makes SS and Medicare solvent. The Roadmap was never ment to actually be passed, if it was Paul Ryan would get thrown out on his ass. Peple do not want Socail Security and Medicare privatized. How many people have actually read his Roadmap? People want Dennis Kucinich's roadmap Medicare for everybody. Something that would actually work.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive: Would you please be so kind as to enlighten us as to exactly how we as a nation, already in debt up to three generations hence, are going to afford Mr. Kucinich's roadmap Medicare "for everybody"? Your kind and lucid explanation is greatly appreciated and welcome. My thanks.
divisioneight 1 year ago
@divisioneight Simply replace all HMOs with Single Payer like what Canada has. Unfoutunatly this crook Paul Ryan loves Insurance Companys so much and hates the American People so much that he wants us to spend twice the money for a system that is half as good. Canada does it better than America. Look at the WHO rankings where America is ranked 37th and Canada is 30th. Case Closed.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive: Did you know that Canada is also facing a budget deficit? Although they did not suffer the housing collapse like we did, their corporate structure is suffering under taxes, and the government has to raise cash to pay for their social services. Single payer is just what it is - you pay the government instead of the HMO's. Do you think that just because the Government's running healthcare, it will necessarily be less costlier than if private enterprise did it?
divisioneight 1 year ago
@divisioneight Canada has also had a budget freez on there system since 1989. There is a simple fix for there shortfall unlike Americas System. Damm right I trust a Gov payer system over a parasite insurance company. Canada is doing very well because of there system they have recovered 81% of the jobs they lost in the recession. There taxes are a little higher but are you trying to say you would rather pay $1400 in premiums than an extra $200 in taxes? I think not.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@divisioneight Lets look at Americas Healthcare system. It is the most expensive in the world. 47 million have no coverage. 63 thousand die each year because insurance companys don't give them coveradge. It is ranked 37th in the world for a reason. THOSE ARE YOUR GODDAM DEATH PANNELS. The bloodsucking HMOs that decide who lives and who dies.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive: Dear sir or madam: Please refrain your emotions for a spell if you would. "Death panels" are a political term - call it what you will, but it's rationing of healthcare. The insurance companies do it now, overseas, the state run governments do it was well. There's no need for hysterics and name calling here. The question is, do you trust your Federal government that much to put your life, and your family's lives in their hands? Thank you.
divisioneight 1 year ago
@divisioneight Do you want me to debunk Ryan's Roadmap point by point and prove to you that it is nothing more than a rehash of Bush's plan to privatize SS? This is very easy for me.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
Comment removed
divisioneight 1 year ago
@genYprogressive: Thank you for your kind offer. Yes, would you please enlighten us with your points that argue against Mr. Ryan's proposal. i am unaware of any convictions or arrests of Mr. Ryan so why do you label him a crook? Is Charlie Rangel not a crook just because he's a Democrat? Let's not degenerate here. I don't agree a lick on Kucinich's policies, but I won't label him an idiot or a crook. He's an American too. Progressive = Enlightened and informed, not bitter and hateful.
divisioneight 1 year ago
What is not heard from the supporters of State Socialized medicine is the cost. Many nations who have centralized health care, are facing larger and larger costs. Socialized medicine does not necessarily reduce the cost of medical care except only by limiting it's use and distribution. The cost of an inoculation won't change under Obama-care, only who will be eligible to receive it. That's not being discussed because that is an inconvenient truth that Democrats hope us dumb Americans miss.
divisioneight 1 year ago
@divisioneight 1. What happened in Greece has everything to to with international bankers and NOTHING to do with there social programs. 2. We spend more on healthcare than any other countrys and tens of thousands are dying every year. THAT IS THE INCONVENIENT TRUTH. The answer is to put the insurance companys out of buisness and replace them with Single Payer.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive: you mean destroy an over-regulated private industry in a aggressive government takeover and create a monopoly run by the Federal Government to administer our health and hospital needs. Look deep into the Constitution sir, and you will not see any writ or precedent that allows the Government to take over an industry entirely as you profess. Unless the Soviet Union of old is a more beneficial government for you than what we have here.
divisioneight 1 year ago
@divisioneight YOU FAIL. Health Insurance is not the whole Health Care Industry. The insurance companys have little if any regulation. The only solution that hucksters like Paul Ryan have offered is to privatize Medicare and SS. Medicare works, for-profit insurance does not. Forget it that debate is over. There is a reson that Paul Ryan's Roadmap has only 13 co-sponsors out of all the Republicans in the house.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive: Health care includes regulating what the doctors can and can't do. Right now it's the insurance companies that limit care - you certainly can agree to that! Next, it'll be the Feds who limit care. Like the old song goes, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss". What makes you think that the Federal Government can handle such a task efficiently or better than folks who have been doing so for years? Where did you hear that health ins. companies aren't regulated? Thanks.
divisioneight 1 year ago
@genYprogressive: Rep. Ryan had only 12 supporters because of the weak and feeble Republican party that is trying to garner popular support by acting like Democrats. Micheal Steele's a moron, and we both can agree on that I believe. What's missing is common-sense moral values, and this guy Ryan has got a pair that the rest of the weenie 'publicans on the Hill don't have because they are too afraid of Pelosi and her gold gavel. You can insult the 'publicans all you want - they deserve it!
divisioneight 1 year ago
lol Notice when in politics or media if you get owned, the line that will save you from further humiliation is "We'll continue this discussion later".
Ramiromasters 1 year ago
Single Payer costs less and covers everybody. Paul Ryan is aginst this but he wants to use tax payer money to pay insurance companys to provide coverage. PAUL RYAN IS A SICK FUCKING JOKE.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive It only costs less if you can ration care. It would cost hundreds of thousands per person to do everything we can at end life, so instead of letting each individual weigh the benefits of care vs. cost, under single payer everyone would demand infinite care and the government would decide where the line is drawn. No thank you.
hintonmj 1 year ago
@hintonmj I lived in the UK and there is no ratioing there. We payed less and everyone was covered and got good care. Under Single Payer in Canada there are only wait times in certian places or if there are people that need care more urgently.
People are getting killed by insurance companys in Canada. Here over 45 thousand are killed by insurance companys per year. By any standard Single Payer beats the shit out of insurance blood suckers.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive I understand you may have had only good experiences under single payer, but the fact is, hospitals are no longer competing for your business. So, you may be lucky and only interact with people who are benevolent enough to give you good service, but everyone doesn't have that service under socialist medicine. There are many horror stories of british and other socialized medicine that just don't happen in America. I prefer not to be one of those people
hintonmj 1 year ago
@hintonmj WRONG. Obviously people do get exellent service under nationalized care. Under the NHS in the UK people live longer and have less of every disease. Are you even aware that in the US 62% of bankrupcys are from medical debt? didn't thinks so. How many medical bankrupcys are there in Britian and Canada? ZERO. Look it up. Americas healthcare system is ranked 37th while Canada is 30 and Britian is 18. Americas healthcare cannot lick the muddy boots of the British NHS.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive : Care to cite where you are getting your data from? What about "terminal" cancer cases?
divisioneight 1 year ago
@divisioneight Many people try to say that US has the highest cancer survival rates in the world are using this as an argument aginst the other countrys healthcare systems like the UK and Canada. The simple truth is that terminal cancer survival is higher in the US. ONLY FOR THE PEOPLE THAT GET TREATMENT. If you are one of the 47 Million that insurance companys do not cover then you are sit out of luck. This means we have the best emergincy care system. Not the best Healthcare system.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive : The 47 million number was generated by the Democrats who rammed this bill through. It is contested by many and includes students in college, 20-somethings who opt not to have insurance, and unemployed without insurance. Look at Greece, and other countries facing economic hardships because they can't foot the bill to insure their citizens so they have to hit up those citizens with high taxes to pay for coverage, or severely limit the coverage. That's an inconvenient truth
divisioneight 1 year ago
@genYprogressive Show the proof, link something, I have a couple counters already prepare so hopefully you get on it soon.
Ramiromasters 1 year ago
@Ramiromasters Do you want me to go through everything that is wrong with Paul Ryan's roadmap? He says that it balances the budget, the problem is that it does it on the backs of the poor. Insurance Companys alredy kill to many people without his roadmap in place. The fact is that Paul Ryan helped create Medicare Part D to destroy Medicare so he could say that Medicare does not work.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
Awwww.... the poor insurance companies won't be able to compete. You mean, they won't be able to drop cancer patients anymore? That's just sad. You mean, they won't be able to drop people if they are short by one penny on their premium? That's even sadder. When is everyone going to realize the insurance companies are there for one reason. TO GOUGE YOU!!!!! Affordable health insurance is a moral question not a free market one.
YesYou123333 1 year ago
@YesYou123333 you should do some of your own research and see how many people really get dropped because they have cancer. Helathcare is the moral question - not insurance coverage. Also, a vast majority of the people pay premiums through payroll deductions - how do you suppose they become pennies short of premiums? C'mon, man. Let's stop the rhetoric and look at the issues for what they are. I agree reform is needed; but the conjecture you offer holds no water.
RedRedOC 1 year ago
@RedRedOC You should experience the Health Insurance Industry more often. The sooner we ride ourselves of these leeches, the better. The financial incentive has to be removed from health care. If not, only more people will suffer. Paul Ryan is nothing but an Health Insurance Industry stooge.
YesYou123333 1 year ago
@YesYou123333 Thnks for the reponse. I experience enough of the health insurance industry. I audit their clinical quality initiatives for a living. Go to NCQA.ORG you'll see how accountable HMOs are when it comes to ensuring healthcare &services quality for their enrollees. I don't mean to be arbitrary; Itjust makes me sad to see the entire industry get generalized into crooked organizations. Not the case at all. There are plenty of healt plans who mean well for their members.
RedRedOC 1 year ago
@RedRedOC Pardon my response. But, BULL!!!! I have been dealing with the Insurance Industry for 10 years taking care of ailing family members. Sure, they offer a good service if you don't get sick. If you do, they will treat you like a pariah. They will look for any excuse to deny you benefits and raise your rates. I don't see them bending over backwards to help you find solutions to your problems. They have one motive and it ain't the care of the consumer but the almighty dollar.
YesYou123333 1 year ago
@YesYou123333 I disagree with you but respect your position. If you feel that way, I can't change it. I'm just curious if you really mean the premiums are going up or your out of pocket costs have increased. It impresses me how doctors and hospitals get none of the blame for the high cost of helath care. I yield to you for last thoughts.
RedRedOC 1 year ago
@RedRedOC My views are:
1) Take the financial incentive out of health care. (Non-Profits)
2) One area where I agree with Republicans- TORT Reform. We can't allow somebody who inadvertently receives 6 stitches instead of 5 to collect 10 million dollars.
YesYou123333 1 year ago
Ryan is right. As usual, the morons at PMSNBC distort the facts
CaliforniaCatholic 1 year ago
I've been saying it for months this man needs to run for president, ranking member of the budget committee, he has a plan for reducing entitlement spending for all you liberal hacks who think he's in the party of no, Paul Ryan 2012!!!!
TheUnitedStatists 1 year ago
what a stupid bitch and she believes what she is saying and thinks she makes sense. What an idiot, talking head.
k1a1t1h1y1 1 year ago
You can almost hear the MSNBC producer screaming "cut him off!!! He's using facts and the truth and he's making what's her name look like a huge clown!!!"
goodgrief198 1 year ago
SPANKED!
sdfkjllshadflhadfshl 1 year ago
Katrina had her bullshit handed right back to her like a pie in the face!
platefullofbacon 1 year ago
To quote motal combat: "Paul Ryan wins. Flawless victory. Fatality."
cano21 1 year ago 28
@cano21 LOL
SobrietySobriquet 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Paul Ryan is so full of shit you have to run for cover every time he opens his mouth.
Why the hell is he eve in office?
genYprogressive 1 year ago
Care to elaborate? \
badger5566 1 year ago
Paul Ryan has said that there should be no Public Option because for profit insurance companys could not compete because a Gov run option. Paul Ryan is basically admitting that the for profit provider system is so costly and inefficient that they have been a miserable failure.
On this video when Paul Ryan says that he has a private provider he doesn't mention that they are non profit prividers. People in his income bracket do not even need insurers.
And he does not even mention medicare.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive @genYprogressive What Paul Ryan is saying is that you 'can't compete when your opponent sets the rules.' When the federal government raises the taxes on private insurance plans by 40% and creates new mandates, it will force them out of business (sound familiar with the housing crisis?: government forces banks to give mortgages to low income families with poor credit=> home owners cannot pay mortgage=> default or subsidy from government run Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac).
badger5566 1 year ago
@ badger5566 No it doesn't.
The rules that were put in place under the public option are that it would cover no more than 10% and the other thing that would go with that would be that the U.S. would do what every other country does which is ether import cheaper drugs or use its purchasing power to lower costs. This is something that drug companys and car administrators have fought.
PRIVATE SECTOR IS NOT THE ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM. THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS THE PROBLEM.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive A "public option" if you want to call it that, is not really an option when government has deliberately taxed and regulated insurance companies out of business. Also, do you have the "Option" to pay taxes? Just ask the IRS. Mr. Ryan does not mention medicare and medicaid (which is being cut by this bill) in this interview, but he has time and time again.
badger5566 1 year ago
@genYprogressive Medicare and Medicaid are bloated beuracracies, DENY people coverage everyday, and are literally trillions in debt. Now, looks like we'll all be on medicaid and have no choice, YAY!!!
badger5566 1 year ago
@badger5566 The big failure that Paul Ryan makes when saying that we cannot have another entitlement program because Medicare is going broke. He will not say why it is going broke because it has to work through it private system. America is the only country that does not use its purchasing power to negotioate lower drug prices or import them.
The administrators have poked even more holes in it. Your average ambulance ride is $1400 here and only $44 in Canada and you want more deregulation.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive America the only country not using purchasing power to negotiate drug prices? U make it up. At least Hong Kong and Japan don't. They have free markets and no insane litigation against drug companies. That's why they are cheaper. They have public health care. Everyone will not be denied for hospital service. But if you want to see specialist, pls wait for 15 months. For medical routines, 90% people pay out of pocket. Our HC system is too generous.
econfkw 1 year ago
@econfkw You are about 50% correct. Yes it is true that Japan's healthcare is much more privatized than ours is. They have more for-profit hospitals than we do and they have over 3000 private insurance payers, but every single one of there payers is non-profit. Also there asministrative costs are heavily regulated. Thats why an MRI costs $98 in Japan insted of $1500 like is does here. It has little to do with regulating drug companys.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
He says the private sector cannot compete because a Gov run option does not have to pay taxes or make a profit.
Also Paul Ryan doesn't even mention that the proposed public option would take in no more than 10% of the people. And these are people in the lowest income gap that for profit insurance companys don't want to cover anyway.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive Actually people still will pay for it poor, middle class, rich because of the tax increase on other commodities, and income. I will have to look again but 9% of a persons income will be taxed on their paycheck with this bill. Also this bill forces a no turn away policy for even private insurance companies. I don't know how much you know about the insurance industry, but 1 month premium vs. 1 month chome/cancer treatment can break a company.
ZeInfiniteEnigma 1 year ago
@ZeInfiniteEnigma I am not sure where you are getting at with this. Do you have the same veiw as me where you think that this bill does not do enough and there should ether be at least a public option or a Medicare Expantion? Or do you not want any change to the status quo at all?
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive I am strongly against this bill, but I do believe there needs to be changes. This bill is a joke, and is going to raise deficit. This bill also contains numerous other items that have absolutely nothing to do with Health Care Reform. There are numerous other options out there but people are too lazy to look. :)
ZeInfiniteEnigma 1 year ago
@ZeInfiniteEnigma The problem are the for-profit insurance companys. This bill still kept them in power and the cancer is still there.
Paul Ryans answer is to turn the goverment payer systems that worked into for profit systems that would make the deficit worse.
genYprogressive 1 year ago
@genYprogressive - "Paul Ryans answer is to turn the goverment payer systems that worked into for profit systems that would make the deficit worse."
That statement you made, about "govt payer systems that worked," is so patently false, misinformed, and inaccurate that it is laughable.
If you honestly think Medicaid & Medicare "work" then you are lost in a fog of either idiocy or cluelessness... no offense, thats just fact. Medicare & Medicaid are expensive epic failures
Zaxxon2008 1 year ago
Ryan gets it....
wonderlnd1 1 year ago 16
Bolgernow, I doubt if you even hold a GED listening to your analysis of how markets work. By definition, any regulation of a market is NOT free market. When the very entity that regulates a market then enters that very same market, it is definitely not free. You say that the Govt Option is fair and competes fairly. Lets apply that lesson to housing. Do Fannie and Freddie ring any bells? Limitlessly subsidized entities bleeding money with no accountability. What's the worst that can happen?
mhrobson 2 years ago
Insults without solutions. You have nothing else to offer this country. You're acting like a small child who didn't get their way in the 2008 elections...
Your views drove this country off a cliff for 8 years by starting two wars, raising government spending by 59%, & responsible for one of the worst economic collapses in American history since the great Depression.
Now you're screaming for the keys back to the car.
No. We need solutions, not lies, insults, & division...
Bolgernow 2 years ago
Obama, Reid and Pelosi have learned nothing from history; they are as blind to their own tyranny as were King George and the British Parliament. They show no comprehension of the moral outrage that will ignite in this country if they ram through ObamaCare, a bill that requires taxpayer funding for abortion, usurps individual rights to choose their own personal health care options, and saddles the nation with a growing flood of debt which will drown our children and grandchildren.
rascal95113 1 year ago 3
@rascal95113, "ram" through? It's been well over one years.
And "saddles a nation" is ALREADY saddled. We are in two wars, had an economic meltdown, owe money to China, & all need to pull together to survive. You solution "fuck em, I got mine". Not a very good place to be IMO. Your blind intolerant hate is your undoing. Good luck...
Bolgernow 1 year ago
Bolgernow
Educate yourself son. You'll be a better person for it.
tommyde8 2 years ago
Hold a BA in Business Administration with a concentration in Marketing & minor in Economics. Very proud of the hard work I put in.
Always willing to listen & learn things. That's the difference between you & me. You use only insults, never addressing the specifics facts I presented. Sad really.
Bolgernow 2 years ago
"Capitalist rhetoric"
*Rubs eyes*
Really? 1st he & every other GOP'er scream Healthcare reform is Socialist. Then Marxist. Then Nazism. Then it's "pull the plug on grandma", then "your coverage will end". All lies. NOW he claims healthcare reform is Anti-market?
He's saying the insurance companies don't want to compete. He only favors a free market that favors insurance companies. That's not a free market then.
This is the same guy at the summit who disagrees with the CBO's #'ers. Insane
Bolgernow 2 years ago
"NOW he claims healthcare reform is Anti-market?"
It doesn't make sense to say "healthcare reform is anti-market". That phrase alone is incoherent. Rather, "Public option is anti-market" is coherent.
It sounds like you're confusing the phrase "healthcare reform" with "single payer/public option". He's arguing against single payer option, deeming IT anti-market.
nuckinfuts31 2 years ago
Incorrect. The Public Option is totally free market. It's putting out a fair product among other products. If the market isn't providing coverage for 35-47 million people by pricing them out of the market, it's broken. Their profit models are insane. Look at Wellpoints balance sheet. The PO keeps the market in check with choice.
What if people took the PO, & didn't like it? The market spoke, big insurance wins. Big insurance knows that might not be the case, & are scared. They should be
Bolgernow 2 years ago