Stumbling Block to Lutheranism #1: Baptism

[dankdrokush]

you claim to speak the truth, yet you support sprinkling and infant baptism. Catholic church replaced submersion with sprinkling. Also: what sins hath a small, blameless child need remission of? All are born into sin in the sense that we as a race carry the curse of sin (death) BUT Jesus teaches we are to be LIKE the small children to gain entry into God's kingdom.. the bible also states that "the sins of the father are not passed on to the son" meaning your children are born blameless!

[AnHonestChristian]

@dankdrokush As explained in the video, the Greek word "baptizo" does not exclusively mean "immersion"; more broadly, it means "washing" and clearly means "sprinkling" in the context of Acts 2:17. In fact, I can't think of a place in the NT where Baptism is clearly immersion at all, although I could be wrong about that...

Also, all are sinners because of Adam's sin (Romans 5 & 6). That includes children; they're human too. Death is the punishment for their sin as well.

[AnHonestChristian]

@dankdrokush And yes, we are to be "like children" in the sense that children are trusting of their parents as we should be of our Heavenly Father. But the only way to be forgiven is through God's appointed means, beginning with Baptism.

[mansoorfamily]

May I humbly suggest to all - the book Scriptural Baptism

By Uuras Saarnivaara

[gospelgirl1964]

My mother (Lutheran) and I (only attend but am a Believer) argue the point....accept vs. receive Jesus. Whats the difference? I look at it as.....Accepting the fact that Jesus did die on the cross for my sins....rather than receive the information. That's the difference between listening and hearing, respectively. Listening has an active part of hearing plus understanding. Hearing is just your ears doing what they do. No brain needs engagement.

[AnHonestChristian]

@gospelgirl1964 When saying we "accept" Jesus, we have to be careful that we are not implying that we cooperate with God in salvation; it is clear from Scripture that our salvation is by God's gracious will alone (Jn 1:12). In receiving eternal life/forgiveness, we are entirely passive, as God works through His Word to give us saving faith (Ro. 1:16, 10:17, etc.).

[Marksnotebook]

OH yeah...very true. WE must be baptized to be saved along with believing in the Lord and his resurrection!

[AnHonestChristian]

@Marksnotebook I would say rather that the Lord applies the benefits of His resurrection and saving faith to us in Baptism, which is His work alone.

[JamesTheHJProphet]

I probably did misunderstand this video then. The downfall of constant satire is it become unclear of what your position actually is. My understanding from this video was that the weight, and therefore your belief, was against what Lutherans believe. Your title itself puts Lutheran teaching in a negative light.

[AnHonestChristian]

@JamesTheHJProphet Just to clarify, here's what the video description says: "This is the first of a series of videos on some of the problems I initially had with Confessional Lutheranism." I represent the Lutheran side of this discussion, as my channel and other comments reflect.

[JamesTheHJProphet]

If you believe Baptism saves you, then you are a confessional Lutheran. If you do not, then you are not a Confessional Lutheran because you do not follow the Confessions.

Perhaps your position is comingled. I understood that you take the woman's position in this video, and so consider Baptism as law, which you chose not to do, rather than as the saving grace and work of God. Your argument in the dialogue that follows with this video appears to be that faith is in contrast to Baptism.

[JamesTheHJProphet]

Your discouragement of Baptism is based on the fact that you see it as a work of law done by man. Your view is more anabaptist than Baptist. In your video you claim "we need to accept Jesus." Thus your view of faith is law. For you it is all about what we have to do to be saved. You go so far to aruge that Baptism is not important to have faith. Baptism has always been connected to faith. We cannot accept God or come to Him ourselves. God comes to us, He accepts us for Christ's sake in Baptism.

[AnHonestChristian]

@JamesTheHJProphet I am a Confessional Lutheran. I agree that "Baptism has always been connected to faith." I never claimed we accept Jesus by our own free will, nor do I comingle Law and Gospel. Seriously, did you even watch the video?

[JamesTheHJProphet]

"AnHonestChristian" would have Sacraments be works of law done by man.

1Peter 3:21. "Baptism now saves you!" Why not say faith alone saves you? Because the early church always had the understanding that faith and baptism are connected. You don't baptize to prove your faith, as if some work you must do. Baptism saves us, because it is the gift of God, where the Holy Spirit gives us faith. To throw out baptism is to throw out what Jesus says: Mat. 28:18-20. Thow out Baptism=throw out God's word.

[AnHonestChristian]

@JamesTheHJProphet " 'AnHonestChristian' would have Sacraments be works of law done by man."

No, that's what the Baptists believe. I heartily affirm that faith alone saves--the faith God gives us in Baptism, which is entirely His work, and not the one being baptized. I think you must've misunderstood my video.

[mofo34736]

I believe in baptism in the Holy spirit

But i do recommend water baptism but its not need for salvation.

If you read (Acts 10:43-48) you will see a patern.

1st the word is preached

2nd the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles

3rd water baptism

[AnHonestChristian]

@mofo34736 And I believe in the Baptism of water and the Holy Spirit. As I've pointed out in this video, there's only ONE Baptism. The passage from Acts 10 doesn't disprove infant Baptism or even Baptismal Regeneration. It's a simple historical account showing that adults were converted to Christianity and subsequently baptized, which is logical, seeing as how they could not be baptized as infants.

[mofo34736]

Baptism is a work, going to church is a works, many othere thing are works.

what did the thife on the cross do was he babtzed?

No he looked at Jesus and believed and was saved.

[AnHonestChristian]

@mofo34736 Yes, Baptism IS a work. It's God's work in us, but it's not the work of sinful man. I never stated in this video that those who die unbaptized are not Christians with genuine faith in Jesus. As I have demonstrated in this video, Baptism is the application of the benefits of the Atonement secured by Christ.

[ChristianEastern]

Very Good video; what I really liked was that you gave your opposition an intelligent voice. Far to often these animated "dialogues" make the opposition look so irrational that it might as well be mute. You did not do that.

final thoughts:

Luke 1:41 records the unborn John as leaping for joy when exposed the unborn Christ; thus there is no specific 'age' where one is allowed to have faith

[robbourassaguitarist]

People ask, "how a baby can make a decision for Christ?"

No one makes a decision for Christ. Jesus says, "You did not choose me, but I chose you," and, "No one comes to me, lest the Father draw them nigh".

Lazarus ears didn't understand Christ, but his spirit did, when he was called from the grave. A baby is the seed of Adam, and needs the new birth, not a symbol, but life from the Living Word of God, which created the world, and was breathed into the Apostles, who were commanded to baptize.

[Mazinga]

Very good video, bravo! Thumbs up!

[KiraWei1]

Wow, is this why I felt like I had more in common with the Catholics than the Evangelical Protestants when I first started college?

~Former ELCA child.

[AnHonestChristian]

@KiraWei1 Perhaps. :) True, good Confessional Lutheranism is nothing short of Evangelical Catholicism. Whereas Rome adds the meritoriousness of good works and gives extrabiblical roles to our Church family in heaven, Lutheran Christianity emphasizes God's grace and the faith we are given for Christ's sake, through the Word and Sacraments.

[KiraWei1]

@AnHonestChristian I regret going more with Campus Crusade on intellectual doctrinal issues as a Protestant like I thought I was supposed to rather than the Catholic Newman Club.

[tainorebelde1]

The phrase "Confessional Lutheran" is like saying "a true Lutheran..." LOL

[AnHonestChristian]

@tainorebelde1 I would say they're entirely synonymous. :)

[shabrony1591]

This is what turned me away from christainity, fighting and arguing over what we think. Your all divided and worshing the same thing. I beilive in god, but I'd never call myself a christan, because of poeple like you

[AnHonestChristian]

@shabrony1591 Hello. Thanks for your comment. The purpose of this video is not to be divisive (I don't like the divisions in the Church myself). But, if God's Word is truth--and Christians believe that it is--it is best to believe that which God tells us. We should strive for unity, but not at the cost of the truth. I'm sorry you have become disillusioned because of the divisions. But, Christ is not divided. He will not let you down. Find comfort in Him, and not the Church.

[shabrony1591]

@AnHonestChristian yes i agree with your last statement but i'm just saying that you all have different ideas on small things and make a huge deal out of it. its stupid because i know most people almost hate each other over beliefs. Not all but i saw it in my church and a lot of others and i'm just saying that i think its better to have your belief as a personal thing. Sorry if i came off as being a dick. But its the truth

[AnHonestChristian]

@shabrony1591 So, this will sound characteristic of being a divisive Christian, but I don't think that some issues (e.g., Baptism) are small things. I'm sure we won't agree on that, so I'm willing to leave it there. There is definitely hatred and mistrust, and it is a regrettable reality. I can only trust that the Light will dispel the darkness. But, if you do ever want to discuss some of these issues, I'd be glad to, though I'm definitely not the most qualified person.

[shabrony1591]

@AnHonestChristian you have some good points. i don't know maybe I'm just mad because i saw all this fighting in my old church, and i saw it in a lot of them. Ill stop arguing but i was just making a point that there's so much hatred in such a peaceful thing. Its really sad

[themontevi1]

GOod job

[augsburglutheran1]

The question/answer format worked well, especially answering scripture with scripture

[BaronGrackle]

Nice video. Lutherans and Catholics share many of the same teachings, particularly on Baptism. Very nice.

[AnHonestChristian]

Thanks for your comment. Yes, we do share a rich history of theology and liturgy, up to a point. May God bless you.

[AnHonestChristian]

Thank you. :)

Being raised a Baptist, it was very difficult for me to accept the idea that there is one Baptism "for the forgiveness of sins," and to be forgiven, one must be "born of water and of the Spirit" (John 3:5).

[Paleolutheran]

The reply to the difference between the "two baptisms" was great!