Your accent is a bit thick for me. =/ Sorry, I don't want to be a dick, but can you subtitle your videos because I can't understand what you initially say sometimes. After I rewatch the part I understand it because of the context. It's just a bit inconvenient is all. But excellent work all in all! ^_^
I grew up in a rather 100% catholic village and i had to go to church every thursday during grade school. i also had "religion lessons". But we never talked about any of the immoral rules set in the bible. other than they where ment figuratively. But we had some points in it about social behaviour and i'd have to lie if i told you that these were totally unvaluable. Things like how to solve conflicts peaceful aso. I started becomming an atheist during that time so i'd say it hasn't been that bad
Hard to believe that here we are in the 21st century and while some are sequencing the human genome others are providing all state education funds to indoctrinate children with 2000 year old twisted superstitions.
Imagine the state of human science and knowledge in 2000 years. Now imagine that instead of teaching that, they decide that Harry Potter is actually a better explanation of the world to teach their children. That's what's happening guys.
i've had a similar prob although i'm a believer in god, in my own way,i have recently been tryin to get my son into an after school activity that will allow him to meet people outside school and i have a son who isn't that into sport and only other option in christian groups, who require the kids to march for the church etc i think its about time the government stop funding all theses christians group and fund some that is for children, no matter of religion.
1- I want my kid to be able to socialise freely with other kids in a normal way and don't want her to feel separated from others her own way.
2- I don't feel qualified enough to deliver a full, well rounded education.
3- Simply letting the publicly funded religious schools do their thing without complaint makes it seem as if nobody has an issue with it, which will prolong the problem.
@notinmyname2050 I see, those certainly are important factors. Good luck, i hope the government listens to you and people who feel the same way you do.
@WanderingTaoist101 Oh, I'm aware. Sometimes I wonder which is worse, the overt PRAISE JESUS! fundamentalism of the U.S. or the insipid, always in the background religious practice here.
I'm 100%, unequivocally, totally, & completely in agreement w/ you on this issue. Here in the USA, we're having a bit of a war over keeping the Christians OUT of public schools. I went to a Christian school for 4 yrs (not for the religion, but because of the supposed higher standards) and hated nearly every moment of the brain-washing that went on there. It truly saddened me to see "friends" succumb to the pressures of religion. These same friends ostracized me for my lack of faith. Hypocrites.
@NiccoHel: TELL me about it; when I was a teenager in an ostensibly secular high school, we were required to take a Bible course as a graduation requirement. Not Bible as literature, Biblical history or anything like that; the course could have been retitled "Why Protestant Christianity is the One True Faith". A publicly funded high school shouldn't have required that for graduation--or even taught the Bible that way during school hours. What happened to the Bill of Rights, guys?
@NiccoHel Well I'm lucky in so far that I grew up in a moderate family and moderate community. It is just incredibly frustrating when they need to have it explained to them that forcing other peoples children to learn your religion is not okay.
Also, only something like one third of our schools are privatised. Having said that, yes, they are mostly funded by religious institutions and yes, the government does still provide funding for these schools.
I always watch your videos with slight awe at the disparity of approaches to non-theism between Ireland and Australia. We have religious education in our government funded primary schools but it is a perogative of the faculty and not, as far as I know, part of the curriculum. Parents also have the right to ask their children not participate. Come to Australia. We don't seem to have this problem.
@MissFotini We have the right but not the ability. In many cases the schools' position is that the parent must come and supervise the child if they do not want them to take part in religious instruction.
@notinmyname2050 So parents attempting to free their children's minds of the pigeonholes and limitations a preaching of one "correct" religion impose are (ironically) being painted in to a corner? Resorting to lewdness; that is utter shyte. I'm sorry you and your child face this challenge.
I'm looking for an au pair job atm. Every single Irish family I've found so far describe themselves as "God fearing". That sort of makes me "Irish fearing".
@JulieOfSuburbia It can be annoying. The school situation is prolonging the problem because now parents are feeling pressured into church attendance out of fear that not doing so will negatively affect their chances of getting their child a place in the local school.
Pfft. You need rich, kind people, willing to organize a consortium of private educators willing to offer cut-thoat prices. (Cut throat to religious schools). Naturally, the richness needed is to sustain awesome educators that won't be paid much by the parents of who they teach. - They can suck the children out of the public schools, discredit those schools, then build their own schools. - Err... ...Anyone got Bill Gates' phone number?
@GilesHellier Well these schools are all publicly funded, that's the problem. Taxpayer money being used to propagate magical thinking. Theres an organisation now called Educate Together that has just under 60 schools but I'm hoping if the state takes the catholic schools they may allow this group to administer them.
@notinmyname2050 Shite. I'm not too knowledgable in these matters, I just through I'd give it a go. - Religious education is psycho. Sadly, my best left suggestion is even more of the ball, and far moe silly. - Err... ...Hows about you and me go mug the pope?
Mug the pope anyone?!
Me and notinmyname are going to mug the pope! - Anyone in?!
Society here in the UK tends to view your country as the "Secondary Catholic HQ", the barracks of it if you will, which is of course is dreadful that a nation can typecast another so flippantly (of course I'm sure the UK is typecast for many shit things in Ireland, lol) It sounds ridiculous to mention, but from my country, I think Father Ted did so much for how we here view Ireland, it was one of the few sitcoms to punch the world so hard, that Ireland seeing cracks in Catholicism could be seen.
@GilesHellier (Plus) Sorry if my comment was a bit irrelevant, I saw your description before watching the video, and the bit I just typed popped into my head. - I'll comment after the video.
@GilesHellier I freaking loved that show! It was running while I was in Catholic Secondary School. There was a portrait of one of the diocese's previous Bishops hanging in the corridor of the main building that looked EXACTLY like Bishop Len Brennan off of the show.
Sheeesh, it's a problem. I can only say you're going to have to say to your little girl when she starts school .. "Look darling, .. they're going to tell you lots of stories about god and jesus, .. well, dont believe them". .. or tell her to ask lots and lots and lots of questions.
@bonnie43uk Well, I'll tell her most of the stories myself, along with stories of Zeus, Thor, Krishna, Dagda et cetera. They'll be presented like all other fairy tales.
@Artifactorfiction People have a way of not noticing these things when they're part of the status quo. There's been a lot of cronyism in Irish politics in the last few decades and the populace has only recently began turning on the hierarchy of the church.
@rozeboosje Tubridy has never bothered to even pretend he was impartial in these kinds of questions. Remember what a a mouthy git he was when Dawkins was on to promote "The Greatest Show On Earth"?
The Irish government saved huge amounts of money by letting the catholic church take over the schools. This let them indoctrinate the children for generations and grow enormously influential in the country.
Were it up to me ll faith schools would be abolished The taxpayer has financed the tuition maintenance and capital construction costs of these institutions we have bought them many times over faith schools are incompatible with civil society Look at Northern Ireland We have Apartheid schooling Identity is defined by the Churches disaffiliation is Verboten Even "Integrated Schools" are formally Christian and require pupils to be declared Catholic or Protestant There is no secular option
@belfastfreethinker Agreed, publc funds should only be used in secular institutions. You simply can't claim to be impartial while financially supporting one or two groups at the expense of all others.
Dude! I had no idea this crap was going on in a 21st century European country! You're right: this stuff's gotta go. Let the church hold a yard sale & relinquish the school facilities back to the people of Ireland! The creepiest part? I have a suspicion that the USA is on a slippery slope toward a similar situation; just replace Catholic with fundamentalist evangelical xians. Could you home school???
@rriverstone1 I want my child to have normal social interactions with other children, including being educated alongside them. If I choose to home-school the issue loses it's visibility and people assume there's no problem.
@rriverstone1 Home schooling works if parents are teachers with a lot of spare time - and even then only in one or two subjects. Home schooling with out Pedagogical education would be worse for your kids then letting them go to a religious school.
In Sweden all public school must be secular and everyone has a right to send their kids to just about any school they choose - if it happens to be a private religious school then kids have a right to not participate in the religions activities (§7 Swedish School Law 2010:800).
@notinmyname2050 the nearest Educate Together school is miles away... but I've contacted it... I was aware of them before coming, but immediate pressures prompted a quick decision on where to live.
This is serious stuff. I didn't know that it was that bad - I mean - I heard that what you describe was how things were working in Ireland, but for some reason it was too hard for me to really believe.
Is it an issue at all in the public debate to stop the clerical influence in teaching, or do everybody just ignore it as something insignificant, irrelevant or something which can simply not be changed?
@Darkfirebrand Agreed!!! My wife brought me back some when she stayed with a friend out in Germany, (her friend is an army wife whose husband is on deployment, the American airbase had a load of American foods there). I've been cold turkey ever since >:(
That's what the vote is for. Even at a local level, the exposure of the issue can bring resutls.
Given the recent publicity regarding the Catholic Church and children, and the flagrant traditional disregard of the abuse by the church heirarchy, a Catholic school is not one I would like my own child to attend.
@curlew0609 Our system is quite different from the American one, we don't have individual local Education Boards. It is up to the national Department of Education to set these policies. While it is possible for parents to nominate themselves for a place on a schools board of management it would still be owned by the church and the chance of significantly altering policy would be slim.
Dude Move! Now! I thought it would be OK for my daughter to go to a kindergarten at a very moderate German Protestant church. Now she tells me she believes in Jesus and has a father in heaven who looks out for he and will go to heaven when she dies. Run. Get away. The damage of even a single years exposure to such brainwashing can be irreversible. I wish you could meet Lily. You would be shocked.
@jacobreinvented It is a big worry for me, I think if moving is not possible I shall have to seek out and set up play-dates with non-believing families to counteract the normalisation of magical thinking.
Faith schools are unfortunately a big issue in England now. Thanks to Blair one in three primary schools are now faith schools despite two in three people opposing them, and now we have 'Free' schools but I worry about what they won't be free of.
All faith school results are artificially high due to selection processes, ie. they don't accept those most in need of a good education to keep their success rates up. How very christian of them.
@mystereed72 It is really weird to watch the education system become more religious while the society as a whole becomes less so. You have to give the religious one thing, they are good at kicking up a fuss and getting their way.
I'll give you that, the squeaky wheel (of circular reasoning) gets the most grease. I'd just like to know why my government decided the tax-payers should foot the bill for all this nonsense.
It's so incredibly weird for me, coming from Norway, hearing that the public schools are catholic schools. In Norway, it's not LEGAL for public schools to have a religious bias - they HAVE to be secular. It just seems so...strange.
@steffenml It really is an incredibly strange situation, people have just been very slow to challenge the status quo but now the tide of public opinion has turned against the church there's never been a better time to make them acknowledge what parents want.
It seems the catholic church is unassailable in Ireland.
I am shocked at what I hear in this video. People, especially the young generaton are forced into a faith. (Big Brother?) When faith gets hold of a young brain, it is sometimes difficult to shake it off later in life.
In England 'free schools' are being announced. They seem like tax payer funded terrorist training camps. Publicly funded, privately run, 'free' in terms of curriculum.
@calmreason Yeah, people need to keep an eye on that sort of thing. You have to wonder why the government would choose to continue giving them so much time considering that each new census shows their numbers consistently dropping.
I loathe the fact that I have to send my two kids, 5 and 9, to a catholic school everyday simply for the fact, as you state, that there are a ridiculously low number of secular schools in Ireland. My nearest one is 45 minutes away and full beyond capacity. I for one will gladly stand with any other parent who wants to overturn the current system.
@mlenane100 It is incredibly annoying, did you by any chance see the Late Late show discussion on it last weekend. I've linked this video to it if you didn't. The comfortable obliviousness of the catholics was maddening, they really just don't get why non-catholics would have a problem.
@Levikarose79 Yes, but I would prefer not to. I want my child to interact with other kids in an environment without imposed moral or spiritual homogeny.
Wow. I'm amazed by that. I mean, we have trouble here with Xians trying to take over the public schools, but they're still legally secular (and most of them do their best). I can't believe that, in the 21st century, you guys MUST send your kids to religious schools.
@OgreVI Dude, you have your constitution to keep them in check. Our constitution was drafted with the "advice" of an arch-bishop so it opens with a prayer to the Trinity, demands that all our Judges take an oath to God and asserts that the State recognises that God is due the homage of public worship.
@Brainiac1056 Well the issue is that the Church owns the properties on which the schools are built. The State is in the best position to ix this as they already have the outstanding bill mentioned in the video. Luckily the current Minister of Education has very little time for the Church's nonsense and has himself suggested they hand over 50% of the schools.
i disagree. the parents should not have a right to teach their children what they want in private schools. that is not a fair education for the child. they should be taught facts,not fiction.
I am concerned about this too, thanks for highlighting it. My daughter is 4 next January, but I've no idea where she'll go to school and we're in Dublin!
I have a particular problem with one of my children in that he is quite enamoured with the idea of a god. That in itself is not a problem, however he has learning difficulties, he is 13 with the development age of around a 6 year old. The last thing i need is stupid trumped up god squad trying to influence him in stupid stories... he has enough problems as it is... but they seem to like doing that.
@notinmyname2050 - I really am tempted to ask them to substantiate the shit they are claiming, thus putting them in the position of "proving god".... idiots.
It was religious morning assemblies at school between the ages of 7 to 11 that planted the seeds in my mind that completely screwed me up years later.
Their claims I knew were bullshit, it was the songs that got in because I liked the music and sang along without analysing the words.
If you MUST send your kids to a religious school make sure you teach them all sorts of other religions when they get home so they can see they are incompatible and all bullshit.
I didn't learn comparative religion until I was 11 or 12, but by then it was too late. I heard the stories of these other religions and I can clearly remember myself thinking "All religions are ridiculous....except Christianity"
It wasn't until I was about 30 that I actually realised how equally ridiculous Christianity is.
If religion is getting to them young, get comparative religion to them young too and teach them to be objectively critical.
Wow, no secular schools in your city is weird. In the U.S. you pretty much have to go to the school nearest you. There are some instances where kids are bused in from other areas but not much. Is there a large secular/atheist community in your area? Maybe you guys can start a petition to your local government to open a secular educational facility. Whatever you guys do, good luck.
@luisdez81 Very little, the nearest secular school is about 90 minutes away. There is an organisation called Educate Together which is championing secular education in Ireland and I hope that we can get one of their schools in my area soon.
We have faith schools in the U.K. I hate it. It's just a government cop out so they don't have to pay for education because religious organisations are more than happy to pay.
@biggingeryeti The documentary "Faith School Menace?" showed just how little concern such schools could have for the truth when it conflicted with their doctrine of choice.
@notinmyname2050 Yeah, I've seen it. Richard Dawkins presented it. Very disturbing. Faith schools should not be allowed. I went to a catholic school for both and primary and secondary education and got into a lot of trouble becuase I asked questions my teacher didn't like.
Are you allowed to put your kids in any school you want that is available? In the US, at least from my experience, schools are primarily decided by where you live. We have private schools, but most of them are Christian. To give you an idea how secular our schools are, I didn't learn anything about evolution until after I finished public school. I took biology several times, and not once did evolution even come up.
@anzwertree Within reason, there aren't really set catchment areas like in the American system. However getting to a town with a secular school can involve driving up to two hours for people in less populated areas.
Good vid Shane. The figures don't lie, do they! Oh, how persecuted the Catholics feel now that we want a secular education! Can they hear themselves, you can't help wonder..
@DaithiDublin The martyr complex that many of them are carrying around is pathetic. How can anyone who claims to be reasonable not understand that it is NOT okay to force someone to conform on matters of personal conscience or spiritual belief?
The only connection to christianity in my shool was an optional religion class, and even that got cancelled after a couple of years because only a couple of kids registered for it.
Just want to ask, did you grow up and go to those religiously oriented schools? You seem to have turned out rather well, but, of course, you're exceptional.
@awreslr2 I did and I turned out rather normal in spite of it. But after watching a recent televised discussion (link above) in which a non-catholic parent described having to reassure their child that God wasn't watching him and hell wasn't real I felt a need to voice my opinion.
I never knew this about Ireland. Being from the USA, where Catholic schools are in the minority, and cost $, are totally voluntary, and exist in places with plenty of "public" (sectarian tax-supported) schools, I have to think, well, maybe some things about the USA are still OKAY! I totally agree, private schools are for snobs or the religiously zealous who can pay for that on their own. Using public tax funds to support a religiously founded and oriented school is absurd.
@awreslr2 I would much rather use the community based Finnish model. It has gotten some pretty amazing results in the past few years placing their students in the number one spot in global standards of literacy and mathematics. And yes, the knowledge that public funds is being partially used to propagate magical thinking is absurd.
@notinmyname2050 Thanks for the reply, I will have to learn more about the Finnish model. Nothing is perfect in public secular education here in the states, perhaps there is more for us to learn from Finland.
Your accent is a bit thick for me. =/ Sorry, I don't want to be a dick, but can you subtitle your videos because I can't understand what you initially say sometimes. After I rewatch the part I understand it because of the context. It's just a bit inconvenient is all. But excellent work all in all! ^_^
Austyn0827 4 days ago
do you have the option to home school?
Crystalwolf78 1 month ago
Great keep up the great work
f250superduty76 4 months ago
@notinmyname I had a response from the nearest Educate Together school:
"At present we have 340 names on a list for entry in 2012 – we will be offering 60 places."
Yikes.
drdeveril 5 months ago
I grew up in a rather 100% catholic village and i had to go to church every thursday during grade school. i also had "religion lessons". But we never talked about any of the immoral rules set in the bible. other than they where ment figuratively. But we had some points in it about social behaviour and i'd have to lie if i told you that these were totally unvaluable. Things like how to solve conflicts peaceful aso. I started becomming an atheist during that time so i'd say it hasn't been that bad
BalthazzarCH 5 months ago
Hard to believe that here we are in the 21st century and while some are sequencing the human genome others are providing all state education funds to indoctrinate children with 2000 year old twisted superstitions.
Imagine the state of human science and knowledge in 2000 years. Now imagine that instead of teaching that, they decide that Harry Potter is actually a better explanation of the world to teach their children. That's what's happening guys.
kyebean 5 months ago 2
Good luck . Let us know what happens .
torrid426 5 months ago
So glad you made a video highlighting the importance of a secular education!
M1ssMyr1ad 5 months ago
So glad you made a video highlighting the importance of a secular education!
M1ssMyr1ad 5 months ago
i've had a similar prob although i'm a believer in god, in my own way,i have recently been tryin to get my son into an after school activity that will allow him to meet people outside school and i have a son who isn't that into sport and only other option in christian groups, who require the kids to march for the church etc i think its about time the government stop funding all theses christians group and fund some that is for children, no matter of religion.
TheMrsLunarmonkey 5 months ago
I take it home schooling is not an option for various reasons?
FattyMcFox 5 months ago
@FattyMcFox Indeed.
1- I want my kid to be able to socialise freely with other kids in a normal way and don't want her to feel separated from others her own way.
2- I don't feel qualified enough to deliver a full, well rounded education.
3- Simply letting the publicly funded religious schools do their thing without complaint makes it seem as if nobody has an issue with it, which will prolong the problem.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago 7
@notinmyname2050 I see, those certainly are important factors. Good luck, i hope the government listens to you and people who feel the same way you do.
FattyMcFox 5 months ago
Man every nation has some really fucked up crap. I really feel for you though we have our own BS here in the states.
WanderingTaoist101 5 months ago
@WanderingTaoist101 Oh, I'm aware. Sometimes I wonder which is worse, the overt PRAISE JESUS! fundamentalism of the U.S. or the insipid, always in the background religious practice here.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050 You'd be surprised at the difference between the North and the South, it's almost Night and Day.
NoTroubleMikeG 3 days ago
I'm 100%, unequivocally, totally, & completely in agreement w/ you on this issue. Here in the USA, we're having a bit of a war over keeping the Christians OUT of public schools. I went to a Christian school for 4 yrs (not for the religion, but because of the supposed higher standards) and hated nearly every moment of the brain-washing that went on there. It truly saddened me to see "friends" succumb to the pressures of religion. These same friends ostracized me for my lack of faith. Hypocrites.
NiccoHel 5 months ago
@NiccoHel: TELL me about it; when I was a teenager in an ostensibly secular high school, we were required to take a Bible course as a graduation requirement. Not Bible as literature, Biblical history or anything like that; the course could have been retitled "Why Protestant Christianity is the One True Faith". A publicly funded high school shouldn't have required that for graduation--or even taught the Bible that way during school hours. What happened to the Bill of Rights, guys?
hoopersghost 5 months ago
@NiccoHel Well I'm lucky in so far that I grew up in a moderate family and moderate community. It is just incredibly frustrating when they need to have it explained to them that forcing other peoples children to learn your religion is not okay.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
good god this is fucked up.
kyebean 5 months ago
@kyebean indeed
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Also, only something like one third of our schools are privatised. Having said that, yes, they are mostly funded by religious institutions and yes, the government does still provide funding for these schools.
MissFotini 5 months ago
I always watch your videos with slight awe at the disparity of approaches to non-theism between Ireland and Australia. We have religious education in our government funded primary schools but it is a perogative of the faculty and not, as far as I know, part of the curriculum. Parents also have the right to ask their children not participate. Come to Australia. We don't seem to have this problem.
MissFotini 5 months ago
@MissFotini We have the right but not the ability. In many cases the schools' position is that the parent must come and supervise the child if they do not want them to take part in religious instruction.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050 So parents attempting to free their children's minds of the pigeonholes and limitations a preaching of one "correct" religion impose are (ironically) being painted in to a corner? Resorting to lewdness; that is utter shyte. I'm sorry you and your child face this challenge.
MissFotini 5 months ago
I'm looking for an au pair job atm. Every single Irish family I've found so far describe themselves as "God fearing". That sort of makes me "Irish fearing".
JulieOfSuburbia 5 months ago
@JulieOfSuburbia It can be annoying. The school situation is prolonging the problem because now parents are feeling pressured into church attendance out of fear that not doing so will negatively affect their chances of getting their child a place in the local school.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Pfft. You need rich, kind people, willing to organize a consortium of private educators willing to offer cut-thoat prices. (Cut throat to religious schools). Naturally, the richness needed is to sustain awesome educators that won't be paid much by the parents of who they teach. - They can suck the children out of the public schools, discredit those schools, then build their own schools. - Err... ...Anyone got Bill Gates' phone number?
GilesHellier 5 months ago
@GilesHellier Well these schools are all publicly funded, that's the problem. Taxpayer money being used to propagate magical thinking. Theres an organisation now called Educate Together that has just under 60 schools but I'm hoping if the state takes the catholic schools they may allow this group to administer them.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050 Shite. I'm not too knowledgable in these matters, I just through I'd give it a go. - Religious education is psycho. Sadly, my best left suggestion is even more of the ball, and far moe silly. - Err... ...Hows about you and me go mug the pope?
Mug the pope anyone?!
Me and notinmyname are going to mug the pope! - Anyone in?!
GilesHellier 5 months ago
Society here in the UK tends to view your country as the "Secondary Catholic HQ", the barracks of it if you will, which is of course is dreadful that a nation can typecast another so flippantly (of course I'm sure the UK is typecast for many shit things in Ireland, lol) It sounds ridiculous to mention, but from my country, I think Father Ted did so much for how we here view Ireland, it was one of the few sitcoms to punch the world so hard, that Ireland seeing cracks in Catholicism could be seen.
GilesHellier 5 months ago
@GilesHellier (Plus) Sorry if my comment was a bit irrelevant, I saw your description before watching the video, and the bit I just typed popped into my head. - I'll comment after the video.
GilesHellier 5 months ago
@GilesHellier I freaking loved that show! It was running while I was in Catholic Secondary School. There was a portrait of one of the diocese's previous Bishops hanging in the corridor of the main building that looked EXACTLY like Bishop Len Brennan off of the show.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050 Lol! "He DID kick me up the arse!!"
GilesHellier 5 months ago
Sheeesh, it's a problem. I can only say you're going to have to say to your little girl when she starts school .. "Look darling, .. they're going to tell you lots of stories about god and jesus, .. well, dont believe them". .. or tell her to ask lots and lots and lots of questions.
Good luck my friend.
bonnie43uk 5 months ago
@bonnie43uk Well, I'll tell her most of the stories myself, along with stories of Zeus, Thor, Krishna, Dagda et cetera. They'll be presented like all other fairy tales.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Dark Age Mentality - why are people not protesting in the street especially in this time recession
Artifactorfiction 5 months ago
@Artifactorfiction People have a way of not noticing these things when they're part of the status quo. There's been a lot of cronyism in Irish politics in the last few decades and the populace has only recently began turning on the hierarchy of the church.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
What really sickened me is how Tubridy introduced the couple as "the couple who want to remove the crucifix from the classroom". WTF?
rozeboosje 5 months ago
@rozeboosje Tubridy has never bothered to even pretend he was impartial in these kinds of questions. Remember what a a mouthy git he was when Dawkins was on to promote "The Greatest Show On Earth"?
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Move.
ChaoticSupernova 5 months ago
@ChaoticSupernova I wish
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
The Irish government saved huge amounts of money by letting the catholic church take over the schools. This let them indoctrinate the children for generations and grow enormously influential in the country.
Wordavee1 5 months ago
@Wordavee1 Well the saved money on original land purchases but have since paid it over several times in wages and maintenance costs.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Were it up to me ll faith schools would be abolished The taxpayer has financed the tuition maintenance and capital construction costs of these institutions we have bought them many times over faith schools are incompatible with civil society Look at Northern Ireland We have Apartheid schooling Identity is defined by the Churches disaffiliation is Verboten Even "Integrated Schools" are formally Christian and require pupils to be declared Catholic or Protestant There is no secular option
belfastfreethinker 5 months ago
@belfastfreethinker Agreed, publc funds should only be used in secular institutions. You simply can't claim to be impartial while financially supporting one or two groups at the expense of all others.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
glad to be one of those 5,000 subscribers. keep doing a great work, Salutations all the way from Texas :).
mmmodafoca 5 months ago
@mmmodafoca Thanks
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Dude! I had no idea this crap was going on in a 21st century European country! You're right: this stuff's gotta go. Let the church hold a yard sale & relinquish the school facilities back to the people of Ireland! The creepiest part? I have a suspicion that the USA is on a slippery slope toward a similar situation; just replace Catholic with fundamentalist evangelical xians. Could you home school???
rriverstone1 5 months ago
@rriverstone1 I want my child to have normal social interactions with other children, including being educated alongside them. If I choose to home-school the issue loses it's visibility and people assume there's no problem.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@rriverstone1 Home schooling works if parents are teachers with a lot of spare time - and even then only in one or two subjects. Home schooling with out Pedagogical education would be worse for your kids then letting them go to a religious school.
MrBizak 5 months ago
In Sweden all public school must be secular and everyone has a right to send their kids to just about any school they choose - if it happens to be a private religious school then kids have a right to not participate in the religions activities (§7 Swedish School Law 2010:800).
Conclusion: Move to Sweden =)
MrBizak 5 months ago
@MrBizak If you can find a job for a sarcastic ginger with no knowledge of the Swedish language then sign me up!
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050 Oh, just come on over, we´re almost english speaking now any ways! :)
Brainiac1056 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050 the nearest Educate Together school is miles away... but I've contacted it... I was aware of them before coming, but immediate pressures prompted a quick decision on where to live.
drdeveril 5 months ago
This is serious stuff. I didn't know that it was that bad - I mean - I heard that what you describe was how things were working in Ireland, but for some reason it was too hard for me to really believe.
Is it an issue at all in the public debate to stop the clerical influence in teaching, or do everybody just ignore it as something insignificant, irrelevant or something which can simply not be changed?
Kframke 5 months ago
@Kframke The Catholic Church's influence is being pushed out gradually, a bit too gradually for my liking but its going nonetheless.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Agreed, and they need to lift this strange ban on rootbeer too.
Darkfirebrand 5 months ago
@Darkfirebrand Agreed!!! My wife brought me back some when she stayed with a friend out in Germany, (her friend is an army wife whose husband is on deployment, the American airbase had a load of American foods there). I've been cold turkey ever since >:(
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050 If you ask I'm sure a store could get their hands on it for you, or just order you a stock of bottles from their distributor.
Darkfirebrand 5 months ago
That's what the vote is for. Even at a local level, the exposure of the issue can bring resutls.
Given the recent publicity regarding the Catholic Church and children, and the flagrant traditional disregard of the abuse by the church heirarchy, a Catholic school is not one I would like my own child to attend.
curlew0609 5 months ago
@curlew0609 Our system is quite different from the American one, we don't have individual local Education Boards. It is up to the national Department of Education to set these policies. While it is possible for parents to nominate themselves for a place on a schools board of management it would still be owned by the church and the chance of significantly altering policy would be slim.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Dude Move! Now! I thought it would be OK for my daughter to go to a kindergarten at a very moderate German Protestant church. Now she tells me she believes in Jesus and has a father in heaven who looks out for he and will go to heaven when she dies. Run. Get away. The damage of even a single years exposure to such brainwashing can be irreversible. I wish you could meet Lily. You would be shocked.
jacobreinvented 5 months ago
@jacobreinvented It is a big worry for me, I think if moving is not possible I shall have to seek out and set up play-dates with non-believing families to counteract the normalisation of magical thinking.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050 I wish you the best of luck.
jacobreinvented 5 months ago
Faith schools are unfortunately a big issue in England now. Thanks to Blair one in three primary schools are now faith schools despite two in three people opposing them, and now we have 'Free' schools but I worry about what they won't be free of.
All faith school results are artificially high due to selection processes, ie. they don't accept those most in need of a good education to keep their success rates up. How very christian of them.
mystereed72 5 months ago
@mystereed72 It is really weird to watch the education system become more religious while the society as a whole becomes less so. You have to give the religious one thing, they are good at kicking up a fuss and getting their way.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050
I'll give you that, the squeaky wheel (of circular reasoning) gets the most grease. I'd just like to know why my government decided the tax-payers should foot the bill for all this nonsense.
mystereed72 5 months ago
It's so incredibly weird for me, coming from Norway, hearing that the public schools are catholic schools. In Norway, it's not LEGAL for public schools to have a religious bias - they HAVE to be secular. It just seems so...strange.
steffenml 5 months ago
@steffenml It really is an incredibly strange situation, people have just been very slow to challenge the status quo but now the tide of public opinion has turned against the church there's never been a better time to make them acknowledge what parents want.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
It seems the catholic church is unassailable in Ireland.
I am shocked at what I hear in this video. People, especially the young generaton are forced into a faith. (Big Brother?) When faith gets hold of a young brain, it is sometimes difficult to shake it off later in life.
dewinthemorning 5 months ago
@dewinthemorning Well public opinion has been turning on them in the last decade, even amongst their own members.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
In England 'free schools' are being announced. They seem like tax payer funded terrorist training camps. Publicly funded, privately run, 'free' in terms of curriculum.
calmreason 5 months ago
@calmreason Yeah, people need to keep an eye on that sort of thing. You have to wonder why the government would choose to continue giving them so much time considering that each new census shows their numbers consistently dropping.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
In Luxembourg 100% of public schools are catholic schools!
goxster 5 months ago
@goxster And Americans think us Europeans are so secular!
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
I loathe the fact that I have to send my two kids, 5 and 9, to a catholic school everyday simply for the fact, as you state, that there are a ridiculously low number of secular schools in Ireland. My nearest one is 45 minutes away and full beyond capacity. I for one will gladly stand with any other parent who wants to overturn the current system.
mlenane100 5 months ago
@mlenane100 It is incredibly annoying, did you by any chance see the Late Late show discussion on it last weekend. I've linked this video to it if you didn't. The comfortable obliviousness of the catholics was maddening, they really just don't get why non-catholics would have a problem.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Do you have the option to home school?
Levikarose79 5 months ago
@Levikarose79 Yes, but I would prefer not to. I want my child to interact with other kids in an environment without imposed moral or spiritual homogeny.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050 Of course that would be ideal and I understand the point is the bigger picture here.
Levikarose79 5 months ago
@LeavingOnAJet Hey! Preacher! ...
DaithiDublin 5 months ago
@DaithiDublin Ok, I HAVE to make a parody of that song now, with that phrase as the basis...
steffenml 5 months ago
Wow. I'm amazed by that. I mean, we have trouble here with Xians trying to take over the public schools, but they're still legally secular (and most of them do their best). I can't believe that, in the 21st century, you guys MUST send your kids to religious schools.
OgreVI 5 months ago
@OgreVI Dude, you have your constitution to keep them in check. Our constitution was drafted with the "advice" of an arch-bishop so it opens with a prayer to the Trinity, demands that all our Judges take an oath to God and asserts that the State recognises that God is due the homage of public worship.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050
I LOOOOVE my Bill of Rights. I think everybody should have one.
OgreVI 5 months ago
@OgreVI
oh hello you long time no talk. are you cheating on me with another ginger irish man.lol
TheLunarmonkey 5 months ago
@TheLunarmonkey
Yeah, I'm trying to collect 'em all!
OgreVI 5 months ago
@OgreVI
Well uve a good few to collect.lol
TheLunarmonkey 5 months ago
In Sweden, we have separation of church and state. There are religious PRIVATE schools but very little in the educational system as a total.
I sometimes work as a teacher and I would not last five minutes if I tried to enforce religion on any student.
Is it possible to take the catholic church in Ireland to court? Maybe start a fund for the costs or something?
Brainiac1056 5 months ago
@Brainiac1056 Well the issue is that the Church owns the properties on which the schools are built. The State is in the best position to ix this as they already have the outstanding bill mentioned in the video. Luckily the current Minister of Education has very little time for the Church's nonsense and has himself suggested they hand over 50% of the schools.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050 The same Minister of Education that suggested that the schools should hire soldiers to "bring order" to the class rooms? :)
Brainiac1056 5 months ago
i disagree. the parents should not have a right to teach their children what they want in private schools. that is not a fair education for the child. they should be taught facts,not fiction.
JESUStheATHEIST1 5 months ago
@JESUStheATHEIST1 Well there would still be curriculum standards for the other subjects, but at least the claptrap would be quarantined.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
I'm learning a lot about your country from your blogs. There is so much I don't know!
truvelocity 5 months ago
@truvelocity I'm glad you're enjoying them.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
I am concerned about this too, thanks for highlighting it. My daughter is 4 next January, but I've no idea where she'll go to school and we're in Dublin!
drdeveril 5 months ago
@drdeveril Have you looked at the Educate Together website?
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
I have a particular problem with one of my children in that he is quite enamoured with the idea of a god. That in itself is not a problem, however he has learning difficulties, he is 13 with the development age of around a 6 year old. The last thing i need is stupid trumped up god squad trying to influence him in stupid stories... he has enough problems as it is... but they seem to like doing that.
TheSpankymonkey 5 months ago
@TheSpankymonkey I'm sure they'd love to coo over him and babble their nonsense about "out of the mouths of babes".
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050 - I really am tempted to ask them to substantiate the shit they are claiming, thus putting them in the position of "proving god".... idiots.
TheSpankymonkey 5 months ago
It was religious morning assemblies at school between the ages of 7 to 11 that planted the seeds in my mind that completely screwed me up years later.
Their claims I knew were bullshit, it was the songs that got in because I liked the music and sang along without analysing the words.
If you MUST send your kids to a religious school make sure you teach them all sorts of other religions when they get home so they can see they are incompatible and all bullshit.
TheRationalizer 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer - Either that or send my kid to school with a hammer and proclaim my son as a child of Thor.... ;-)
TheSpankymonkey 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer Indeed, Education is Inoculation against Indoctrination.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050
I didn't learn comparative religion until I was 11 or 12, but by then it was too late. I heard the stories of these other religions and I can clearly remember myself thinking "All religions are ridiculous....except Christianity"
It wasn't until I was about 30 that I actually realised how equally ridiculous Christianity is.
If religion is getting to them young, get comparative religion to them young too and teach them to be objectively critical.
TheRationalizer 5 months ago
@LeavingOnAJet *air guitar solo*
notinmyname2050 5 months ago 2
Wow, no secular schools in your city is weird. In the U.S. you pretty much have to go to the school nearest you. There are some instances where kids are bused in from other areas but not much. Is there a large secular/atheist community in your area? Maybe you guys can start a petition to your local government to open a secular educational facility. Whatever you guys do, good luck.
luisdez81 5 months ago
@luisdez81 Very little, the nearest secular school is about 90 minutes away. There is an organisation called Educate Together which is championing secular education in Ireland and I hope that we can get one of their schools in my area soon.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago 6
We have faith schools in the U.K. I hate it. It's just a government cop out so they don't have to pay for education because religious organisations are more than happy to pay.
biggingeryeti 5 months ago
@biggingeryeti The documentary "Faith School Menace?" showed just how little concern such schools could have for the truth when it conflicted with their doctrine of choice.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050 Yeah, I've seen it. Richard Dawkins presented it. Very disturbing. Faith schools should not be allowed. I went to a catholic school for both and primary and secondary education and got into a lot of trouble becuase I asked questions my teacher didn't like.
biggingeryeti 5 months ago
Fantastic video, comrade! Stand up for what you believe in.
daynebrooks 5 months ago
@daynebrooks Cheers.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Are you allowed to put your kids in any school you want that is available? In the US, at least from my experience, schools are primarily decided by where you live. We have private schools, but most of them are Christian. To give you an idea how secular our schools are, I didn't learn anything about evolution until after I finished public school. I took biology several times, and not once did evolution even come up.
anzwertree 5 months ago
@anzwertree Within reason, there aren't really set catchment areas like in the American system. However getting to a town with a secular school can involve driving up to two hours for people in less populated areas.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Good vid Shane. The figures don't lie, do they! Oh, how persecuted the Catholics feel now that we want a secular education! Can they hear themselves, you can't help wonder..
DaithiDublin 5 months ago
@DaithiDublin The martyr complex that many of them are carrying around is pathetic. How can anyone who claims to be reasonable not understand that it is NOT okay to force someone to conform on matters of personal conscience or spiritual belief?
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Damn never knew it was so brutal over there.
The only connection to christianity in my shool was an optional religion class, and even that got cancelled after a couple of years because only a couple of kids registered for it.
Solidus1086 5 months ago
@Solidus1086 You think that's bad? Our constitution contains a prayer to Jesus and says that the sate recognises that God is due public homage!
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Just want to ask, did you grow up and go to those religiously oriented schools? You seem to have turned out rather well, but, of course, you're exceptional.
awreslr2 5 months ago
@awreslr2 I did and I turned out rather normal in spite of it. But after watching a recent televised discussion (link above) in which a non-catholic parent described having to reassure their child that God wasn't watching him and hell wasn't real I felt a need to voice my opinion.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Public schools are...ugh. Personally, I'd rather teach myself everything instead of wasting my years. That's just me though.
KinguNoKin 5 months ago
@KinguNoKin Not many people would have that as an option though.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
I never knew this about Ireland. Being from the USA, where Catholic schools are in the minority, and cost $, are totally voluntary, and exist in places with plenty of "public" (sectarian tax-supported) schools, I have to think, well, maybe some things about the USA are still OKAY! I totally agree, private schools are for snobs or the religiously zealous who can pay for that on their own. Using public tax funds to support a religiously founded and oriented school is absurd.
awreslr2 5 months ago
@awreslr2 I would much rather use the community based Finnish model. It has gotten some pretty amazing results in the past few years placing their students in the number one spot in global standards of literacy and mathematics. And yes, the knowledge that public funds is being partially used to propagate magical thinking is absurd.
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
@notinmyname2050 Thanks for the reply, I will have to learn more about the Finnish model. Nothing is perfect in public secular education here in the states, perhaps there is more for us to learn from Finland.
awreslr2 5 months ago
I take it you saw the late late show the other day?
TheBlackmeasa 5 months ago
@TheBlackmeasa I did. Come to think of it I should add a link to the video of that segment. Ta for reminding me!
notinmyname2050 5 months ago
Foist and proud
TheHispanicAviator 5 months ago
@TheHispanicAviator Well good for you
notinmyname2050 5 months ago