Basically, we really just need to implement common sense. Reward good workers, no bailouts, stop unnecessary occupations/wars, stop firing our own people and employing someone who live across the ocean, unions stop asking for an unreasonable amount of money. Less government involvement (less bureaucracy), use taxes toward projects that better the population, allow people to develop technology freely/start own businesses. Work toward moving mankind forward, not back into the stone age!
[...]NO MORALITY! The fact that you saw the picture of Abu Ghriab proves we are different. In China, that person would be dead.
Hahahah, xDDDD I mean, I cannot quote this much enough, i mean it is alwazys obvious that conservative Americans suck at hide their lies and propaganda but how obvious does their hypocrisy need to get. xD
"[...]NO MORALITY! The fact that you saw the picture of Abu Ghriab proves we are different. In China, that person would be dead."
Hahahah, xDDDD I mean, I cannot quote this much enough, i mean it is alwazys obvious that conservative Americans suck at hide their lies and propaganda but how obvious does their hypocrisy need to get. xD
SenselessJoe will probably be happy with the news that police shot rioting textile workers protesting that their minimum salaries of equal to 30 dollars a month is not payed by the multinational corporations who own the factories.
Ofcourse according to SenselessJoe, most of these poor walk around with iPhones and computers, just waiting for the Bangladeshi govt to provide for them with food and education.
And as they are rioting with risk of smashing a shop window, police ought to shoot them.
@underbjorn If you break the law, then you suffer the punishment. If the company did not pay, then you take them to court. This is why we have laws. It is not that hard to understand.
You know I was NOT talking about Bangladesh workers. If you cannot keep the argument straight, take notes. Still, violence will not solve their problem either. No one should be waiting on the government to provide them anything except equal protection under the law. As I said, protesting is fine.
You wanting to shoot off the legs of people becauset he happen to be in the same demonsrtation as a coupe of percent trouble-makers IN CASE they would touch your property is what I was talking about. And that "equal protection under law" is just utopian bullshit, I think you know it as well, the ocmpanies will hire the best barristers versus small people who probably can't even write and read. To the litter bin with their equal rights. And no, the employer should do somethin
@underbjorn Nothing is perfect. Nothing is solved by rioting. It just spreads the misery to innocent people who did nothing wrong. In LA, they burned down the stores that cashed their checks and sold them food, Then they complained they had no where to cash their checks and buy food.
Right, big companies are only out there to destroy people's lives and make an "evil" profit. Yet, those profits are what grows people retirement accounts. Kill Wall street and complain your 401K tanks.
I've got no idea what LA example you are talking about, so I won't contest that but there are always a right to demonstrate dissatisfacxtion with authorities, at least I believe so.
Then, the longer the authorities take to respond, ofcourse the more unsettling it will become.
@underbjorn It was after the first Rodney King verdict. Again, I support the right to legal protest. I also support the police to enforce the law, maintain order, and protect people's life and property.
Also service jobs= professors, scientists, managers, financiers, journalists, social workers etc. etc. A country does not necessarily need manufacturing to be successful - just as it doesn't need agriculture to be successful. This is only the most basic economics. Otherwise Cenk is right, but holding onto manufacturing jobs is stupid.
If your getting an unemployment check at 400.00 a week. Why would you take a job at a local convenience store or some where else making 230.00 a week. Now if unemployment was set up, so i could take this job at the local convinence store for 230.00 a week and still get a check for unemployment of 400.00 minus the 230.00. I could save the tax payers 170.00 a week or appoxinantly half the amount i was orginally getting from unemployment.
Juan Williams is saying this crap to get paid,he's not that stupid. Most of the fake @ss staff at Fox News doesn't believe the crap they spew everyday. People seem to forget, these folks are primarily considered in the entertainment industry. Bill Oreilly, Geraldo and others like them would have been considered very "liberals" 20 years ago. They are just trying to get paid.
The problem is that it is CHEAPER to manufacture something else where and ship it here, than to built it here. You need to address the reasons that COSTS are higher here, like government regulation, unions, lawsuits, etc, etc. Raising taxes on businesses just INCREASES the cost of the doing business here.
@CommonSenseJoe The reason that it is cheaper to manufacture o/sea's is because they have low wage economy's. There don't have home's or car's like you do, and work for $2 an hour and are treated like slaves. Is that what is needed in America. CommonSenseJoe you are right, cut regulation's, the tax's, the union's, the lawsuits, the laws, even better CommonSenseJoe you should move o/sea's and you will have it all.
@Mailman1fb We have other advantages. Wages are only one small component in the overall cost problem. I love your idea though. Stop employing them completely and let them starve to death.
@CommonSenseJoe You missed the point CommonSenseJoe YOU should move o/sea's and you will have it all. See if you move o/sea's the IQ of America will go up and that's got to be good for everyone. You must be a Republican, the real problem is the money the Govt pays the contractors. The tax payer's of America support private enterprise.That's were your money going
@Mailman1fb No, you missed the point. We don't want to be a socialist European democracy. If the problem is the government, why do you want more of it? I would rather support a company creating jobs than a jobless person doing nothing.
@CommonSenseJoe, With less Govt you get a place like Angola. Have you ever left America and traveled. try it see how things a done else were. See if you make the middle and lower class richer then the rich get richer. The manufactures would produce more goods wich will produce more jobs. it's called money go round.Your idea of . Stop employing them completely and let them starve to death sounds very right wing.I think they tryed that in the WW 2.Make sure you take your med's and go to bed.
@Mailman1fb No, and I have been to other nations. Everyone prospers more when they have FREEDOM. When the market is allowed to work, everyone prospers. As for my comment, I was talking to those who say we should NEVER manufacture anything overseas. Better to let them starve I guess than work for a dollar a day.
@CommonSenseJoe I don't think you know what you are saying.The free market does't work, because of the mess the economy is in. Like I've already said breath in slowly, take your meds and go and lay down. There is another way, you need to open your mind. You keep going on about the market will decide, Well the market decided to wreck the economy through greed.
Dude, his religion is capitalism and even the dayv the Western civilization will collapse because of overconsumption of luxury goods the way the Roman Empire's elite did he will still blame communist influences. :P
@underbjorn You keep thinking that, and yet it is Europe that is imploding from the overgrown welfare programs. The EU is swirling the bowl right now and if America does not step in YET AGAIN to save the day, it is gone.
Yet another of your bullshit hypothesis without any background or any conenction to reality. If it weren't for the globalized economy and our ties to the instable greed of American bankers and corrupt politicans Europe would never have to go through the 1920s result of deregulations. Luckily, all EU countries have now acted against the banks and money lenders and ofc, my own country has already fully recovered since the recession with pre-2008 growth, not "imploded", xD
@Mailman1fb Actually, it did not cause the problem. It was the government who forced the market to give loans to people who could not afford them or face lengthy investigations by the Justice Department. You also have government backed companies like Freddy and Fanny that where NOT subject to market forces. You have the government threatening to tax Carbon, taking over GM, giving part of the company to UAW for nothing, and then making those people who loaned money to take NOTHING.
@CommonSenseJoe Wingnut that's what you are. A wingnut is someone on the far right wing or far left wing of the political spectrum. The professional partisans, the unhinged activists and the paranoid conspiracy theorists.They're the people who always try to divide ,rather than unite.One tell-tale sign of a wingnut: they confuse partisanship with patriotism.
@CommonSenseJoe I believe that the far-right and the far left can be equally insane.
But there's no question that in the first year's of the Obama Administration, the far right has been far crazier. In part, this comes from parties being out of power- without the responsibility of governing to ground them, the activists and the ideologues take over.It's important to remember that Bush Derangement Syndrome on the left comparing him to Hitler- tyrant- terrorist preceded Obama Derangement Syndrome
Oh, so what is there? There is the Go to the insurance companies, Go to the street and what? Actually the insurance companies in Europe act the same way, they don't pay out insurance for those who run a high risk of getting in hospital because of some illness or whatever, it is disgusting, greedy and ofc: Capitalist rationality. It makes it all come down to some Survival of the richest.
@underbjorn As I said before, you obviously do not understand the purpose of insurance. It is to transfer SOME of the risk for a big medical expense. No one is turned away because of an inability to pay at any hospital. Again, the young simply do not buy health insurance because they don't think they will need it. They would rather have nicer cars, newer cellphones, and party with their friends.
Again, I doubt you have ever visited a harbourage for exposed and poor. You think people in debt or who just loss hoem and car will go and buy iPhones? Are you fucking stupid? Well, wonder why people in Africa starve but walk around with luxury articles.
Wait...they don't, the conservative is once again spewing baseless lies.
Yay for him, :D
Shoot people because I believe my fantasy world shall dictate their lives.
@underbjorn Are you comparing poor people in Africa with these English students who are rioting of paying more for an education? Trust me, the people in Africa would switch places with them in HEARTBEAT.
No one wants people to starve, liberal or conservative, or loss their homes. However, I want people to work and earn what they get instead living off the government and my money. No one has the right to destroy my property or threaten the safety of my family. I will protect them.
Where did I compare Africans and Brits, I just said that was strange and poverty is relative, the exact opposite then.
If you think I have ever been proposing giving people luxury objects for nothing, then you are completely wrong, or just imaginign again. And by the looks of it, you think the riots are all hooligans and thugs out for killing people. There are always troublemakers in major demonstrations, doesn't mean all are supporting it.
@underbjorn No, You said I was comparing people in Haiti to those in Britain who were rioting. I was correcting your assessment of what I said. I am all for helping those in need. It is the way in which the help is given that I have trouble with. Creating in people a sense of entitlement instead a sense of responsibility is wrong. No one is "owe" a cheap college education. Raising the cap is not a denying them an education, but increasing the cost they must pay.
I disagree, I think the two are interacting and should be weighed out carefully, with entitlements come responsibility, not only one of them.
For example, I believe in such perhaps abstract and farfecthed stuff as being entitled to a long and healthy life, perhaps you disagree and think the UN just spews bullshit like Fox News, I dont know.
@underbjorn What makes you think you are entitled to a "long and healthy life"? Who gets to define what a "healthy life" is for you and me? I love a great beef steak. Should the UN determine that it is unhealthy and make it illegal to eat steak? How about I am entitled to the freedom to do with MY life what I want to do? How I am responsible for my own "healthy life" rather than someone else? Try watch Fox with an open mind once and while, you might just learn something worth knowing.
Who gets to decide you are entitled to own property or live at all, huh?
Shall the dominant corporations who employ a majority of the inhabitants where I live get to decide every aspect of their life through threats of getting sacked else?
How about I sacrifice some unnecessary rights, some unnecessary money, to the redistributive mechanism to assist those in absolute need in our society.
Not that I can brag about this country having lots of homeless people tho. =/
@underbjorn In this country, we have a constitutional RIGHT to private property. I cannot speak for other countries and their problems. I just don't want them here.
I have no problem with help the poor and down trodden. I have a problem with the government creating a permanent class of them.
Well according to the UN Convention on Economic and Cultural Rights, I have the right to a long and healthy life. Though the U.S never ratified that, Sweden did, :D
yes yes, we have fundamental laws in this country as well, and I might proudly say, corrupion never is a issue here, the legislation is adhered to, (Democracy Index etc)
I am appreciating you bringing a new aspect on poor as a class created by government definition. It is what we discuss in university too.=)
@underbjorn Is the UN planning paying for everyone to get this "long and healthy life"? If they are, I bet it is with money they GET from the US. There will always be poor people. The issue is should government policy create MORE poor people. When you can get food, shelter, healthcare, and spending money without working, why work?
That is just a stupid assumption once again every poor man is a lazy bastard. With you clining so tight to that imagination, there will not be much to discuss here. Go to Africa or your beloved Haiti and tell them, "Hey its ur own fault or poor, ur fucking lazy".
Noone wants a shit quality shelter and crap food when they can get better, just that this "better" isn't always attainable. And if that UN project was done with US money, I seriously doubt.
That is just a stupid assumption once again every poor man is a lazy bastard. With you clining so tight to that imagination, there will not be much to discuss here. Go to Africa or your beloved Haiti and tell them, "Hey its ur own fault or poor, ur fucking lazy".
Noone wants a shit quality shelter and crap food when they can get better, just that this "better" isn't always attainable. And if that UN project was done with US money, I seriously doubt.
@underbjorn We are talking apples and oranges here. I am talking about poor in AMERICA. Africa and Haiti has lots of serious problems to be addressed. For example, in Haiti, if you try to become independent, own land, and raise food or livestock, the corrupt government comes and confiscates it all. It some cases it IS their fault. Their lack of education and moral and values leads them to make very bad choices. You do not fix that by throwing money at them.
Once again are you hopeless. So just because they have several coups, the U.S has no hand in it? And yes, much facts point at business interests just as with Batista in Cuba. Guess you think that was an "excuse" as well, your deconscending weak nations and ignorance for facts is disappointing.
@underbjorn I am not ignoring facts. I am simply putting them in their proper prospective. I am still unclear why we are debating African politics. I have been speaking about American poor, not African poor. As I said, there is no singular reason for poverty in Africa. Has some of their problems been caused by MEGA-corporations? Yes! The issue is would their countries be any better is left to their own primitive ways? No! If that is condescending, then so be it.
Actually, if they would've been left in their one "primitive" ways, there would be no large, divided and wartorn countries with borders drawn up with a ruler.
But as they now have been forced into the larger world, I think they should be assisted and their vulnerable markets protected from being re-used as commercial backwaters. But that's not really capitalist rationality.
But okay, let us leave Africa to its exploitation.
Those tribal wars were VERY VERY limited and because their lack of modern arms they could not cause even close to that damage the Europeans did when they transported whole generations of work-capable men and women in miserabel, sick conditions to a new continent to work in miserable, sick conditions while preaching all hipocrisy about good Christian values.
@underbjorn Now look who is generalizing. First, tribal wars were NOT limited. Trust me, the ZULUS where just as efficient in their own way of killing as Europeans. Given the right weapons, they would have done just as bad as the Europeans did, maybe worse.
Yes, slavery was bad. I have already agreed to that premise. However, not all slave masters worked their slaves in "miserable, sick conditions". We fought our civil war over this and settle the matter with our own blood.
According to you, but that was what I wanted to hear. i think Britain abolished slavery in 1833. Although proud to say, Sweden forbade slavery in the 14th century.
And ofcourse I know that it is unfair to target the U.S when other European nations such as Portugal contineud long into the 1880s and all of colonialism was about the Social Dual-Mandate hypocrisy, but hey, it's the U.S that's the world police so that's why they must be accountable.
Here you show another ultra ethnocentric narrowmindedness. "Who will".
Who said we need a world police. Okay that you have nukes to brag about and military might, but I'd anytime turn it back into multiple great powers than once arrogant hegemony leeching off of the worlds poorest to keep its own insustainable ways going (for as long as possible).
Yes, I have seen the UN list on consumption patterns and even U.S admitting such.
@underbjorn Yes, we consume a lot because we CAN! We pay for everything we consume. In fact, we spend billions paying for food, medicine, and such to millions of other people in other countries as well. We give more away to charity than the rest of world COMBINED. We are a free people to do as we please. We do not want the government telling us what we can or cannot do. We don't leech off of anyone. In fact, the world leeches off of us. Try imagining a world without the US!
A world without the U.S as of today would see a dramatic decline of pollution, regulation of ravagins corporations such as those I just talked about who get full support of the U.S govt to do as they please abroad.
You consume cus you CAN, that is the apex of recklessness. It doesn't matter how much you pay, you pay exactly to those you so despice, foreign GOVERNMENTS, who are thoroughly corrupted. You think the natives get a share of oil income? Do you?
@underbjorn I don't know. I do know if they were communist, they would not get any either. We have the highest standard of living because we have the greatest system in the world. If their system sucks, then their government should fix it. You want to blame all the corruption in the world on the US and capitalism. Corruption exists in every government to some measure. Yes, even in Sweden!
Actually, another fault. The U.S does not havet he highest standard of living, absolutely not divided on the hwole of your population. I think permanent trailer parks is unheard of in the streets of most European cities.
Capitalism is built on redistribution of wealth too, every economic system is, in some way or another, trade and exchange. But capitalism in particular emphasizes the need of a poor and weak part to exploit, not to trade with as an equal.
@underbjorn We do have the highest standard of living and the greatest amount of personal freedom. I am not sure what trailer parks have to do with anything.
Capitalism is built on the concept of individual freedom and creativity. It allows individuals to benefit from their own hard-work and/or talent. It does not allow the government to define what, where, and who we are. There is no need for poor or weak. There are always the poor and weak, and we take VERY good care of them.
hahah what kind of bullshit was that, not even one true fact, good record, only lies.
Capitalism is built on extraction fro am weak part fo redistribute material factors to the owner of tyhe mans of production.
Do you think those that work and sweat day out and day in at plantations and factories throughout the world benefit as they should do from their own work? No, that does corpulent managers in West. <_<
trailer parks are for the socially excluded and poor.
1. you do not havet he highest standard of living. I am talking from U.N lists, you from your fantasy world.
2. Trailer parks is a phenomena for those whose house got taken by bankers.
3. The greatest amount of freedom? Are you kidding me, even Sweden has more freedom than you, you even censor television.
4. It allows large employers to define who you are, who you shall vote for, what your salary shall be, where you shall live. early 1900s South America is a goodexample.
@underbjorn 1) The UN says Costa Rica has a better healthcare system than we do. I guess everyone will start sneaking in their illegally next. 2) Trailer Parks have nothing to do with banks or houses being lost. They are a low cost and low maintenance form of housing. 3) I guess that is why everyone wants to go to Sweden. 4) No, the corporations do not determine any of that in America. Each individual has the right to determine those things for themselves. You are living in the past.
1. Well I'd rather believe a expert panel in the UN than you and I seriosuly do not have hard to accept that Costa Rica has better health care than you, but you are free to tell me where that came from.
2. Unworthy and disgraceful form of housing for socially excluded, I mean, it's like mobile ghettos. -_-
3. ??? You mean all Iraqis bombed out oft heir homes by the U.S Army?
4. Actually, I am seeing a broader context and not your ultra narrowmindedness.
@underbjorn Expert UN panels? The UN is a political, mostly socialist, organization made up of petty dictators and failing socialist states. We can trust the UN on everything right? Research "Oil for Food".
Mobile home parks are NOT ghettos! Some are very exclusive places, especial in Florida where lots of rich old people go to retire. You really need to do some research.
You have been misinformed again. Yes, we use bombs in a war. Yes, there is collateral damage. Never intentionally
Hahaha, SOCIALIST? xD Why the fuck does U.S and Russia have vetoes then, the most fascist countries there are, leave your veto to a true socialist nation then instead of keeping up the conservative corruption of nations that just want to be left alone.
You know very well I do not speak about your 0,00001% ultra billionares...
Well actually, I could very well imagining at least every person who has even spoken on Fox News (Even the guy that supported car bombing iranian officials) a fascist.
I did look into this Costa Rica deal and ended up on NYTimes about a former Bank of America CEO who went down there as a socalled medical tourist. "85,000 Americans choose to travel abroad for medical procedures each year, according to a recent report by the consulting firm McKinsey & Company. The cost of surgery performed overseas can be as little as 20 percent of the price of the same procedure in the United States." But Costa Rica got universal health care too, communists
@underbjorn It is great if you want a cheap tummy tuck but if they botch the surgery, don't plan on suing anyone.
The cost of medical care is too high in the US. The problem is that the government has screwed up the free market. It fails to pay the full cost of Medicare and Medicaid patients. It fails to regulate the cost of litigation. It restricts competition. This drives up the cost.
Dude that wasn't even 1% reasonable, xD You keep on blaming the govt for somethign that has gone on for yEAQRS (Get it?) even when your ultra rightwing extremists sat in power.
Even when Bush deregulated everything and let the insurance companies fraudulently rob poor citizens of the last you had. Medicare and whatever always has strict requirements you have to reach for you to get part. Ofc it's formed so no poor can ever get help.
@underbjorn President Bush did not deregulate everything. Insurance is HIGHLY regulated. Medicare has rampant fraud and abuse and outrages pricing. You need to learn about the fact before you speak about this country.
How come so many CAN NOT AFFORD insurance then? The only insurance option is private and that Medicare business just show how immature your population is that it fall into corruption on even touching public responsibility issues.
@underbjorn Again, you have fallen victim to propaganda. The reason that insurance is expensive is because healthcare is expensive. Healthcare is expensive because the government promised benefits to the old and to the poor but does not cover the full cost of those benefits. The government reimburses only 80% of cost on Medicare and 60% on Medicaid. This shifts the costs to the rest of us, which increases the prices. The more the government promises, the less they are actually paying for.
"The more the government promises, the less they are actually paying for." Which ofc is either complete nonsense or as a wonder of stupidity a completely isolated situation for America.
Health care IS expensive and that is EXACTLY why the govt should redistribute wealth from those who have it in excess to those who crawl on the pavements.
"There are always the poor and weak, and we take VERY good care of them."
Do you know what this all began with? I don't know how many homeless, criminal, drugabusing, alcoholic and gangsters there are in every major U.S city but the fact is that you don't care a shit for them.
Well ofc, sorry that is relative, i ought to put the U.S in the African leauge. In social politics, you belong in the third world.
@underbjorn You really need to stop watching TV so much. You can hardly compare your nation of 9,259,000 to our country of over 300,000,000 people. As conservatives continue to grow in power, we will deal with the "gangsters" and such. We spend billions ever year caring for these people. We have been doing it in the wrong way.
Hahahahahahah, xD When conservatives come to power, which country will be next to be invaded because you see fit? Fucking immoral hypocrits are what conservatives are. I love when Bill Oreally said "Capitalism is highly moral", immideately came into my mind Nigerians having their fresh water polluted by oil rigs owned by Chevron and Shell. Lovely capitalism is, just lovely.
@underbjorn That's right blame capitalism and Chevron and Shell, but NEVER blame the Nigerians. It is their dam country. Let them do something about it.
Well they can not becauset he U.S-dominated IMF will choke economic assistance ift hey do you fucking hypocrit retard, learn somethign about how the actual world works. They are held hostage in what's called a privatized market owned by a few mega corps.
Okay back to square one becausey ou lack long-term memory.
No they are not all victims you idiot.
The government is complicit and corrupted and works together with whatever outside elements can keep them in power, I mean that's how logical it can get and you still don't get it. xD
But you clearly lack a picture oft he outside world. Most countries actually try to keep in power also by keeping their population satisfactory and the pop needs FOOD on the table, thus IMF loan
@underbjorn Right, and America is the center of all evil in the world because we are so successful. If we did not consume so much then the Big corporations would not need to steal these nations' resources. They could plant food and feed themselves. They would lead such good, natural lives until the next epidemic came through or natural disaster. It is our fault that their government is corrupt because we loan them money to buy food. We should stop that as well.
Actually, everything you just said with an obvious hint of sarcasm is what I mean.
One, you like the propaganda minister oreilly never defiens successful when talking about America as to relate it to actual successful countries such as my own.
Well if you did not consume so much, the Chinese would, so that's not my point. The point is the latter, the way resources are being handled. Shall they be shipped for profit of Chevron at expense of natives or giving natives a share
@underbjorn I don't know how you define success in your country. For Americans, success is whatever I want to do with MY FREEDOM. I don't want the government taking away all of the risks in life because with the risks go the rewards. If you want the natives to get more of the profits, then you need to work to get their governments to think that way.
I define success as the best standard of living and most social and political freedoms to the largest portion of the national population.
And regarding your entrenchment in everything is govt fault in Africa, no, there is no way in getting their govts to "think that way" as long as they get pumped millions of money from f.e oil extractors for profitable land concessions and drilling rights in native areas.
Completely stupid again, it's about removing the incentives for continued corruption which are the complicit foreign elements that robs the local population of their right to use their own resources of nature.
The govt will never change if it benefits from the rich corporations so that is not an issue until they no longer benefits and the corporations take something you never heard of but it is called social responsibility which is not equal to dumping waste in fresh water.
"Deal with these gangsters". Man you sound like Hitler, but hey, he was abit more right-wing than you but maybe he's somekind of idol of yours.
Actually it's all about proportions so yes, I will continue to compare European nations with the U.S, the difference in drug crime, gun crime (Wow surpirse there, xD), murder rates, hate crime and corruption.
We will when we join NATO. Until then we will not let us be corrupted, keep our sovereign independence andu phold the one single reason to have a government: to grant welfare to it's subjects.
Your military presence where? This country has survived for 500 years and I think your filthy war crime-pumed propaganda apparatus will make minimal difference in peace time and maybe even hostile changes in war time, like you thought about diverting resources for an invasion of Sweden during the second world war.
And ofc regardless of what lies you spew out, we will support every people's right to self-determination free of imperialist corruption.
@underbjorn Well, good for you. I guess it is easy to sit out the big wars and then be critical of the small ones. Maybe we should have let Hitler take over your country!
Oh sorry, just watched a show of how Republicans prioritated tax cuts for billionares in front of granting health care to the emergency personell responding to 9/11.
Of course you spend millions on food and medicine, millionares often eat expensive food and take expensive diet medicine, =) Too bad your charity can nto stand against the structures of the status quo, the cold redistribution of underpriced raw material to the west.
@underbjorn Your show was biased and you don't even realize it. We did not give tax cuts to billionaires. We simply maintained our present tax rates for everyone. Our tax system is broken.
Your envy of the rich must be eating your alive. Our charity far exceeds what you little country has ever done. Like I said before, we did not buy our raw materials from them, we would get them somewhere else. We adapt and overcome. That is what makes our system great!
Uhm you exploit and extract, that is what makes your kids overweight and African kids starving to death.
You ever wondered why valuable raw materials are constantly underpriced while it is these raw materials that you can turn into a GREAT MANY things while the end products, cellular phones etc, are valued MUCH higher but these are useful for only one single need. And dumped back in Africa or whatever for them to want but never have.
What makes your kids overweight is McDonalds. How is mega corporate chains liberalism? It's the exact opposite, liberals stand for a "free market", not oligarchy.
@underbjorn I cannot spend my life trying to correct all of your misconceptions about America. Kids are FAT because the government GIVES away food to the "poor" at every turn. They get food stamps, free breakfasts, and free lunches. We don't have time in our school days for gym and recess anymore. Every kid is entitled to bus ride to and from school. They don't mow grass or shovel snow anymore. Blaming McDonalds for kids being overweight is as flawed as blaming the Swiss for chocolate.
<_< If the kids have a choice, do you not think they'd prefer eating at McDonalds? You like choice, that's what they have.
So you'd rather see poor kids starve because rich kids are fat? I mean, you never had any logic, but it's all too obvious as well.
That you don't have gym in school is another surprise, seems to underscore the way your schools goes down the gutter, Bush loves cutting funding to public schools, didn't he, while driving two wars costing trillions.
@underbjorn You miss the whole point. We have POOR fat kids because we give their parents FREE food. I grew up in a family of 8. NONE of us were overweight because we worked hard everyday as well as went to school. My mom and dad housed, clothed, and fed us all on a laborer's wages. Don't presume to lecture me about poor kids starving. The only way a child starves in America is if their parents are idiots.
Again, if you take both sides of the argument, you will win ever time.
I don't care where or in what conditiosn you grow up, I still geus you are like 100 years old and grew up when black people were still deemed mentally inferior etc etc. At least in your country.
get this, you think most poor kids are overweight? There are millionso ve obese persons in the U.S, it's in your culture to eat fastfood and unhealthy food, whenever healthy, ntruient-strong food comes on the agenda, I bet you say that's communist too.
@underbjorn You have no idea what you are talking about. You keep ignoring what I say and invent your own narrative. We have tremendous freedom to choose in this country because of our high standard of living. We make good and bad choices. Being overweight is not McDonald's problem. It is an individual choice made by individuals.
yes so how is it liberals fault then? You are contradicting yourself in each and every comment you make, this is just annoying and you are most probably a troll.
So first it's the liberals fault kids are fat, now it's their fault education is shit.
Is it their fault 9/11 happened too? What more amusing bullshit do you have on Christmas Eve.
Btw if you see some frost-covered hobo seeking for a shelter please be kind to him and do not beat him up because he is negro, it's Christmas after all and he at least deserves to not die outside. =)
@underbjorn Like I said before, I have worked with the poor for three decades. I could care less what a person's skin color is. I have dealt with food programs, shelters, and many other means to help poor people.
No, I blame the parents of the kids. I don't want the government legislating parental responsibilities. If my kid is fat, I will control what he or she eats, not Michelle Obama.
So how then is liberals the fault of kids being obese is they want (But not yet have) legislated a mean of counter obesity, xD
If it's the parents' fault and conservatives want the matter to be in the parents control, then per automatik it's not really about liberals anymroe, now is it.
@underbjorn What you don't realize is that this is the way liberals work. They, through government, create the problem and then determine that MORE government is the answer. They screw up the free market and then determine that ONLY the government can fix it. Housing, healthcare, and yes, obesity are all problems created by government.
So tell me now, how obesity actually is a problem of the big horrendous liberal government. Don't think it's popped up as a new issue the moment Obama was inaugurated.
@underbjorn As I said before, the government GIVES these people free food with no responsibilities. Everyday we hear about children going to bed hungry and then complaints they are too fat. It is nothing more than the liberals seek an excuse to interfere in the FREE MARKET. If you don't like McDonalds or Burger KIng, then DON"T eat there. It is just that simple.
OBVIOUSLY it is not the same peopel who go to bed hungry that are fat, -_- besides, just to point out, "Everyday we hear about children going to bed hungry" <---That really seems like a third world country.
The govt gives free food? Soyou want them to STAVRE so they arent fat? Are you fucking idiotic again, besides you lot want the PARENTS to choose and if they choose McDonalds its their and YOUR fault, not the govt.
Because you defy to see reality and play blind like a child which has been presented with facts it cannot accept:
Yes ofcourse they change governments as they change shoes if they have to have a revolution everytime the CIA doesnt like the president, fucking imperialists.
Well good thing was, a general embargo through the UN against the miltiary leaders. =D
Oh wait, the U.S exempted American corporations from the embargo, feeding the coup leaders and your commerce.
Nope, no outside force can do things in another country without indigenous help of course. So they seek out the most corrupt and easily-influenced elements and make them pawns.
These corrupt elements aren't innocent, but they get backing from interests that they could never otherwise have gotten support from.
Communism is an extreme form of socialism which I do not promote, stop putting your bullshit in my mouth. Besides I clearly define people like Pol Pot and Stalin as a disgrace to even communism as more fascist, although not including such things as nationalism and white supremacism that usually comes with right-wing extremism.
Haha, oh you meant if the project was PAYING for everybody to get al ong and healthy life, xD
No, haha no.
I talk about the 1966 split up of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, of which the first half, granting political rights, supported by the U.S, and the second, granting social and cultural rights, supported bu the USSR. Ofcoursem uch has changed since then, but they are not PAYING for anything, xD The US dont give a damn about the latter rights even.
@underbjorn Yeah, and we all know how well the USSR keeps their word. Lots of the world is socialist. Of course, they want "social rights". We did not become the greatest nation on earth through socialism, but through capitalism. We created the highest standard of living for the greatest number of people without the government trying to control our lives. If you want to living in a government designed house, drive a government designed car, and live a government run life, Fine, not me.
Ands again, you show total ignorance for reality outside the U.S. The U.S isn't much better in keeping it's words, so that "argument" is just empty.
Then your fantasy abour government-designed everything, well, once more, fantasies or remnants from an era which ended 20 years ago. Highest standard? You mean that because the average American consumes more meat, automobiles, fossil fuels, and paper than any other nation per capita that's high standard? xD
@underbjorn I am sure sure what you mean so I cannot answer. America has kept it's promises to me and my family for generations.
If the government controls everything (socialism) then I am absolutely correct. If the government controls healthcare, then they control whatever treatments are available to me. They determine what gets researched and what does not. If the government controls the auto industry, they determine what cars get built and which do not.
Yeeea, well maybe your family and generations beat up blacks, enslaved them, drove away natives and persecuted suspected communists, I don't know. What I do know is that every time America talks about liberty, democracy and freedom, its so full of shit. Yes you might be a constitutional republic and blabla, but you are never, nor have you ever been, a true defender of freedom and liberty. Every single U.S-supported coup in the last century has led to major oppression.
@underbjorn Is Iraq under "major oppression"? No, it has a democratic government. A perfect government? NO, but better than under Saddam. Have we caused coups? Yes, and not every one was the right thing to do, but they were not all bad. Some were necessary to oppose communist expansion.
Yes and was "communist expansion" always bad? NO. They elected a socialist in Chile, ELECTED him, and what did you do? Support one of the most brutal juntas in South America and sent down laissez-faire economists to create a capitalist experiment on the Chilean population. Disgusting.
Necessary? So you DEFEND the Chile coup? Are you fucking retarded, necessary for whom? So if he would raise the minimum wages forcing the American corporations to adhere, it is NECESSRY for you to intervene? You are fucking sick, it is NECESSARY to end U.S world dominance, that is what's necessary.
@underbjorn Did I say that? If you are going to provide both sides of the discussion, I guess I can quit. I was not talking about Chile or the minimum wage. I was talking about defending our nation from Communism.
@underbjorn I did not say he was a communist. I said we needed to prevent the expansion of Communism. Soviet Union was attempting to box us in by interfering in these countries as well. I did not say everything they did was right.
Yes, by that reasoning, the PRC which long has used western encroaching as a conspiratorial theory whenever relations deteriorate has all the right to intervene in neighbouring countries that has implemented a more or less democratic market economy.
The difference is that in the west, the PRC isn't viewed as an acceptable world force in the same manner as the United States sadly is. Ofc this is broad generalization, the anti-U.S factions in Europe has always been strong, Sweden a prime example of that, but still there is a broad consensus of letting American selfinterests guide other nations, such as spending lives in turning Iraq from a stable but harsh dictatorship into carbombers Somalia.
@underbjorn That's because we are different from the PRC. We don't put our political enemies in prison and torture them. We don't make people disappear in the night. We don't invade other countries just because we can. You keep sidestepping the FACT that Saddam invaded Kuwait. He started the fight and we finished it. Iraq is not Somalia. It is funny how you blame the US but not the terrorists who intentional kill women and children. It must be great to be the neutral Swiss.
Uhm yes you put political enemies in prison or persecute them. We learn about McCarthyism in school, Guantanamo Bay and secret CIA prisons in countries like Egypt are well known, how the civil rights movement were branded communist and harassed. I don't care what Saddam did, you responded but the 2003 invasion was NOT because of what Iraq did in 1990, get a grip of time, <_<
Bush spewed shit about mass destruction just to get a reason to spend trillions of dollars somewhere
And please, PLEASE, don't come with more lies about how we are being brainwashed about all this in school or in media. It's just not bringing this anywhere with more conservative bullshit which both of us know are untrue. The U.S has done many brutal things and while China has done so too, theirs has been INSIDE THEIR BORDERS. One war on Vietnam won't count up to all U.S coups and interventions against freedom and democracy during the last century.
@underbjorn Of course it won't because YOU said so. Maybe the next world war we will let them just take over your country and we will just stay home. Yes, the US has done many brutal things. I am not denying it. These were wrong. On balance, we have spilled our blood many times over for other countries and peoples so that they can live free. It is not a question of being brainwashed, but BRAIN-DEAD. Look at Europe today and then try to tell me that socialism works.
Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, all has had socialist governments of some kind during the later half of the last century. Tell me it didn't work, please tell me.
@underbjorn “We’re now in rescue mode,” said Carl Bildt, Sweden’s foreign minister. “But we need to transition to the reform mode very soon. The ‘reform deficit’ is the real problem,” he said, pointing to the need for structural change."
Well when you get your education about the world outside the U.S and your fantasy world, you will see that he was talking about efficiency and no matter how conswervative government we will get here, they will never threaten the welfare state
Carl Bildt is a member of a conservative political party which is now in power, they have done cutdowns, but they will always stand by to defend the social democratic prosperity.
@underbjorn You have been misinformed. We have not had McCarthyism for decades. Guantanamo was NEVER used for political opponents, only for TERRORISTS. Of course you don't care what Saddam did. Your kind never does. The US is always wrong and always evil. Saddam invaded Kuwait and that is what started this WHOLE THING. Saddam was trying to get WMDs. That is a fact. Had he complied with the inspections, there would have been no questions or doubts.
So you say Bush invaded Iraq 13 years after his fathers invasion for the exact same reason, a 13 year old issue that was deemed finished even then?
Jesus Christ, -_-
What you label terrorist is highly subjective, your kind even said they weren't included in the Geneva Convention so you can do as you wish with them. Yes, I have seen the Abu Ghraib pictures and also from Guantanamo. Disgraceful and disgusting, third world dictatorship style.
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"I CANT SAY THAT I LOST MY JOB I KNOW WHERE IT IS"
"THERE'S AN ASSHOLE IN CHINA WHO THINKS THAT ITS HIS"
from the Mears Brothers song FACTORY TOWN check it out on YOUTUBE!!
dddmartin1 7 months ago
good
tmmy773 9 months ago
Basically, we really just need to implement common sense. Reward good workers, no bailouts, stop unnecessary occupations/wars, stop firing our own people and employing someone who live across the ocean, unions stop asking for an unreasonable amount of money. Less government involvement (less bureaucracy), use taxes toward projects that better the population, allow people to develop technology freely/start own businesses. Work toward moving mankind forward, not back into the stone age!
icky8vicky 1 year ago
Legalize pot...period. Fuck what everyone thinks. We need a new source of revenue to tap into while the alternative is air.
GL
EyeConicRed 1 year ago
What happened to this guy? He changed his mind about Obama.
dizhar 1 year ago
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@CommonSenseJoe ---
[...]NO MORALITY! The fact that you saw the picture of Abu Ghriab proves we are different. In China, that person would be dead.
Hahahah, xDDDD I mean, I cannot quote this much enough, i mean it is alwazys obvious that conservative Americans suck at hide their lies and propaganda but how obvious does their hypocrisy need to get. xD
underbjorn 1 year ago
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@CommonSenseJoe ---
"[...]NO MORALITY! The fact that you saw the picture of Abu Ghriab proves we are different. In China, that person would be dead."
Hahahah, xDDDD I mean, I cannot quote this much enough, i mean it is alwazys obvious that conservative Americans suck at hide their lies and propaganda but how obvious does their hypocrisy need to get. xD
underbjorn 1 year ago
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underbjorn 1 year ago
SenselessJoe will probably be happy with the news that police shot rioting textile workers protesting that their minimum salaries of equal to 30 dollars a month is not payed by the multinational corporations who own the factories.
Ofcourse according to SenselessJoe, most of these poor walk around with iPhones and computers, just waiting for the Bangladeshi govt to provide for them with food and education.
And as they are rioting with risk of smashing a shop window, police ought to shoot them.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn If you break the law, then you suffer the punishment. If the company did not pay, then you take them to court. This is why we have laws. It is not that hard to understand.
You know I was NOT talking about Bangladesh workers. If you cannot keep the argument straight, take notes. Still, violence will not solve their problem either. No one should be waiting on the government to provide them anything except equal protection under the law. As I said, protesting is fine.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
You wanting to shoot off the legs of people becauset he happen to be in the same demonsrtation as a coupe of percent trouble-makers IN CASE they would touch your property is what I was talking about. And that "equal protection under law" is just utopian bullshit, I think you know it as well, the ocmpanies will hire the best barristers versus small people who probably can't even write and read. To the litter bin with their equal rights. And no, the employer should do somethin
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Nothing is perfect. Nothing is solved by rioting. It just spreads the misery to innocent people who did nothing wrong. In LA, they burned down the stores that cashed their checks and sold them food, Then they complained they had no where to cash their checks and buy food.
Right, big companies are only out there to destroy people's lives and make an "evil" profit. Yet, those profits are what grows people retirement accounts. Kill Wall street and complain your 401K tanks.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
I've got no idea what LA example you are talking about, so I won't contest that but there are always a right to demonstrate dissatisfacxtion with authorities, at least I believe so.
Then, the longer the authorities take to respond, ofcourse the more unsettling it will become.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn It was after the first Rodney King verdict. Again, I support the right to legal protest. I also support the police to enforce the law, maintain order, and protect people's life and property.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
As do I.
underbjorn 1 year ago
Also service jobs= professors, scientists, managers, financiers, journalists, social workers etc. etc. A country does not necessarily need manufacturing to be successful - just as it doesn't need agriculture to be successful. This is only the most basic economics. Otherwise Cenk is right, but holding onto manufacturing jobs is stupid.
SketchyBack 1 year ago
If your getting an unemployment check at 400.00 a week. Why would you take a job at a local convenience store or some where else making 230.00 a week. Now if unemployment was set up, so i could take this job at the local convinence store for 230.00 a week and still get a check for unemployment of 400.00 minus the 230.00. I could save the tax payers 170.00 a week or appoxinantly half the amount i was orginally getting from unemployment.
greg069222 1 year ago
@greg069222 Very few people make $400.00 in uemployment benefits..
Moionfire 1 year ago
Juan Williams is saying this crap to get paid,he's not that stupid. Most of the fake @ss staff at Fox News doesn't believe the crap they spew everyday. People seem to forget, these folks are primarily considered in the entertainment industry. Bill Oreilly, Geraldo and others like them would have been considered very "liberals" 20 years ago. They are just trying to get paid.
redbonegal 1 year ago
One of your best videos EVER.
electronicoffee 1 year ago
The problem is that it is CHEAPER to manufacture something else where and ship it here, than to built it here. You need to address the reasons that COSTS are higher here, like government regulation, unions, lawsuits, etc, etc. Raising taxes on businesses just INCREASES the cost of the doing business here.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe The reason that it is cheaper to manufacture o/sea's is because they have low wage economy's. There don't have home's or car's like you do, and work for $2 an hour and are treated like slaves. Is that what is needed in America. CommonSenseJoe you are right, cut regulation's, the tax's, the union's, the lawsuits, the laws, even better CommonSenseJoe you should move o/sea's and you will have it all.
Mailman1fb 1 year ago 31
@Mailman1fb We have other advantages. Wages are only one small component in the overall cost problem. I love your idea though. Stop employing them completely and let them starve to death.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe You missed the point CommonSenseJoe YOU should move o/sea's and you will have it all. See if you move o/sea's the IQ of America will go up and that's got to be good for everyone. You must be a Republican, the real problem is the money the Govt pays the contractors. The tax payer's of America support private enterprise.That's were your money going
Mailman1fb 1 year ago 30
@Mailman1fb No, you missed the point. We don't want to be a socialist European democracy. If the problem is the government, why do you want more of it? I would rather support a company creating jobs than a jobless person doing nothing.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe, With less Govt you get a place like Angola. Have you ever left America and traveled. try it see how things a done else were. See if you make the middle and lower class richer then the rich get richer. The manufactures would produce more goods wich will produce more jobs. it's called money go round.Your idea of . Stop employing them completely and let them starve to death sounds very right wing.I think they tryed that in the WW 2.Make sure you take your med's and go to bed.
Mailman1fb 1 year ago 24
@Mailman1fb No, and I have been to other nations. Everyone prospers more when they have FREEDOM. When the market is allowed to work, everyone prospers. As for my comment, I was talking to those who say we should NEVER manufacture anything overseas. Better to let them starve I guess than work for a dollar a day.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe I don't think you know what you are saying.The free market does't work, because of the mess the economy is in. Like I've already said breath in slowly, take your meds and go and lay down. There is another way, you need to open your mind. You keep going on about the market will decide, Well the market decided to wreck the economy through greed.
Mailman1fb 1 year ago 15
@Mailman1fb ---
Dude, his religion is capitalism and even the dayv the Western civilization will collapse because of overconsumption of luxury goods the way the Roman Empire's elite did he will still blame communist influences. :P
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn You keep thinking that, and yet it is Europe that is imploding from the overgrown welfare programs. The EU is swirling the bowl right now and if America does not step in YET AGAIN to save the day, it is gone.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Yet another of your bullshit hypothesis without any background or any conenction to reality. If it weren't for the globalized economy and our ties to the instable greed of American bankers and corrupt politicans Europe would never have to go through the 1920s result of deregulations. Luckily, all EU countries have now acted against the banks and money lenders and ofc, my own country has already fully recovered since the recession with pre-2008 growth, not "imploded", xD
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn And your country is what?
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Sweden.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@Mailman1fb Actually, it did not cause the problem. It was the government who forced the market to give loans to people who could not afford them or face lengthy investigations by the Justice Department. You also have government backed companies like Freddy and Fanny that where NOT subject to market forces. You have the government threatening to tax Carbon, taking over GM, giving part of the company to UAW for nothing, and then making those people who loaned money to take NOTHING.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe Wingnut that's what you are. A wingnut is someone on the far right wing or far left wing of the political spectrum. The professional partisans, the unhinged activists and the paranoid conspiracy theorists.They're the people who always try to divide ,rather than unite.One tell-tale sign of a wingnut: they confuse partisanship with patriotism.
Mailman1fb 1 year ago 16
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@Mailman1fb You do not know what you are talking about.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe I believe that the far-right and the far left can be equally insane.
But there's no question that in the first year's of the Obama Administration, the far right has been far crazier. In part, this comes from parties being out of power- without the responsibility of governing to ground them, the activists and the ideologues take over.It's important to remember that Bush Derangement Syndrome on the left comparing him to Hitler- tyrant- terrorist preceded Obama Derangement Syndrome
Mailman1fb 1 year ago 15
@Mailman1fb Really, How has the Right gone crazier? Did we lie to the American people in order to take over all of healthcare?
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Actually, you do, xD
One, your government is NOT going to take over all health care, just presenting a state-sponsored option to commercial insurance cartels.
So yes, the right does lie to the American people. But I guess all except the fanatics knew that.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn You have your facts wrong. There is no state-sponsored option.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Oh, so what is there? There is the Go to the insurance companies, Go to the street and what? Actually the insurance companies in Europe act the same way, they don't pay out insurance for those who run a high risk of getting in hospital because of some illness or whatever, it is disgusting, greedy and ofc: Capitalist rationality. It makes it all come down to some Survival of the richest.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn As I said before, you obviously do not understand the purpose of insurance. It is to transfer SOME of the risk for a big medical expense. No one is turned away because of an inability to pay at any hospital. Again, the young simply do not buy health insurance because they don't think they will need it. They would rather have nicer cars, newer cellphones, and party with their friends.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Again, I doubt you have ever visited a harbourage for exposed and poor. You think people in debt or who just loss hoem and car will go and buy iPhones? Are you fucking stupid? Well, wonder why people in Africa starve but walk around with luxury articles.
Wait...they don't, the conservative is once again spewing baseless lies.
Yay for him, :D
Shoot people because I believe my fantasy world shall dictate their lives.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Are you comparing poor people in Africa with these English students who are rioting of paying more for an education? Trust me, the people in Africa would switch places with them in HEARTBEAT.
No one wants people to starve, liberal or conservative, or loss their homes. However, I want people to work and earn what they get instead living off the government and my money. No one has the right to destroy my property or threaten the safety of my family. I will protect them.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Where did I compare Africans and Brits, I just said that was strange and poverty is relative, the exact opposite then.
If you think I have ever been proposing giving people luxury objects for nothing, then you are completely wrong, or just imaginign again. And by the looks of it, you think the riots are all hooligans and thugs out for killing people. There are always troublemakers in major demonstrations, doesn't mean all are supporting it.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn No, You said I was comparing people in Haiti to those in Britain who were rioting. I was correcting your assessment of what I said. I am all for helping those in need. It is the way in which the help is given that I have trouble with. Creating in people a sense of entitlement instead a sense of responsibility is wrong. No one is "owe" a cheap college education. Raising the cap is not a denying them an education, but increasing the cost they must pay.
Only shoot the thugs!
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
I disagree, I think the two are interacting and should be weighed out carefully, with entitlements come responsibility, not only one of them.
For example, I believe in such perhaps abstract and farfecthed stuff as being entitled to a long and healthy life, perhaps you disagree and think the UN just spews bullshit like Fox News, I dont know.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn What makes you think you are entitled to a "long and healthy life"? Who gets to define what a "healthy life" is for you and me? I love a great beef steak. Should the UN determine that it is unhealthy and make it illegal to eat steak? How about I am entitled to the freedom to do with MY life what I want to do? How I am responsible for my own "healthy life" rather than someone else? Try watch Fox with an open mind once and while, you might just learn something worth knowing.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Who gets to decide you are entitled to own property or live at all, huh?
Shall the dominant corporations who employ a majority of the inhabitants where I live get to decide every aspect of their life through threats of getting sacked else?
How about I sacrifice some unnecessary rights, some unnecessary money, to the redistributive mechanism to assist those in absolute need in our society.
Not that I can brag about this country having lots of homeless people tho. =/
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn In this country, we have a constitutional RIGHT to private property. I cannot speak for other countries and their problems. I just don't want them here.
I have no problem with help the poor and down trodden. I have a problem with the government creating a permanent class of them.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Well according to the UN Convention on Economic and Cultural Rights, I have the right to a long and healthy life. Though the U.S never ratified that, Sweden did, :D
yes yes, we have fundamental laws in this country as well, and I might proudly say, corrupion never is a issue here, the legislation is adhered to, (Democracy Index etc)
I am appreciating you bringing a new aspect on poor as a class created by government definition. It is what we discuss in university too.=)
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Is the UN planning paying for everyone to get this "long and healthy life"? If they are, I bet it is with money they GET from the US. There will always be poor people. The issue is should government policy create MORE poor people. When you can get food, shelter, healthcare, and spending money without working, why work?
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
That is just a stupid assumption once again every poor man is a lazy bastard. With you clining so tight to that imagination, there will not be much to discuss here. Go to Africa or your beloved Haiti and tell them, "Hey its ur own fault or poor, ur fucking lazy".
Noone wants a shit quality shelter and crap food when they can get better, just that this "better" isn't always attainable. And if that UN project was done with US money, I seriously doubt.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
That is just a stupid assumption once again every poor man is a lazy bastard. With you clining so tight to that imagination, there will not be much to discuss here. Go to Africa or your beloved Haiti and tell them, "Hey its ur own fault or poor, ur fucking lazy".
Noone wants a shit quality shelter and crap food when they can get better, just that this "better" isn't always attainable. And if that UN project was done with US money, I seriously doubt.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn We are talking apples and oranges here. I am talking about poor in AMERICA. Africa and Haiti has lots of serious problems to be addressed. For example, in Haiti, if you try to become independent, own land, and raise food or livestock, the corrupt government comes and confiscates it all. It some cases it IS their fault. Their lack of education and moral and values leads them to make very bad choices. You do not fix that by throwing money at them.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
And you do not fix it by toppling their government when they try to raise minimum wages which applies to major employers, U.S mega corporations.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn They change governments over there like they change shoes. Blaming US corporations is just an excuse.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Once again are you hopeless. So just because they have several coups, the U.S has no hand in it? And yes, much facts point at business interests just as with Batista in Cuba. Guess you think that was an "excuse" as well, your deconscending weak nations and ignorance for facts is disappointing.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn I am not ignoring facts. I am simply putting them in their proper prospective. I am still unclear why we are debating African politics. I have been speaking about American poor, not African poor. As I said, there is no singular reason for poverty in Africa. Has some of their problems been caused by MEGA-corporations? Yes! The issue is would their countries be any better is left to their own primitive ways? No! If that is condescending, then so be it.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Actually, if they would've been left in their one "primitive" ways, there would be no large, divided and wartorn countries with borders drawn up with a ruler.
But as they now have been forced into the larger world, I think they should be assisted and their vulnerable markets protected from being re-used as commercial backwaters. But that's not really capitalist rationality.
But okay, let us leave Africa to its exploitation.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Your assumption is wrong. Africa was ridden with tribal wars for centuries before we got there. Evil is not exclusive to one skin color.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Those tribal wars were VERY VERY limited and because their lack of modern arms they could not cause even close to that damage the Europeans did when they transported whole generations of work-capable men and women in miserabel, sick conditions to a new continent to work in miserable, sick conditions while preaching all hipocrisy about good Christian values.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Now look who is generalizing. First, tribal wars were NOT limited. Trust me, the ZULUS where just as efficient in their own way of killing as Europeans. Given the right weapons, they would have done just as bad as the Europeans did, maybe worse.
Yes, slavery was bad. I have already agreed to that premise. However, not all slave masters worked their slaves in "miserable, sick conditions". We fought our civil war over this and settle the matter with our own blood.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Which you rightly deserved. Although it was decades after abolition in Britain from whom you so righteously self rebelled against.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn We declared our independence from England. It was righteous.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
According to you, but that was what I wanted to hear. i think Britain abolished slavery in 1833. Although proud to say, Sweden forbade slavery in the 14th century.
And ofcourse I know that it is unfair to target the U.S when other European nations such as Portugal contineud long into the 1880s and all of colonialism was about the Social Dual-Mandate hypocrisy, but hey, it's the U.S that's the world police so that's why they must be accountable.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn If we don't police the world who will?
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Here you show another ultra ethnocentric narrowmindedness. "Who will".
Who said we need a world police. Okay that you have nukes to brag about and military might, but I'd anytime turn it back into multiple great powers than once arrogant hegemony leeching off of the worlds poorest to keep its own insustainable ways going (for as long as possible).
Yes, I have seen the UN list on consumption patterns and even U.S admitting such.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Yes, we consume a lot because we CAN! We pay for everything we consume. In fact, we spend billions paying for food, medicine, and such to millions of other people in other countries as well. We give more away to charity than the rest of world COMBINED. We are a free people to do as we please. We do not want the government telling us what we can or cannot do. We don't leech off of anyone. In fact, the world leeches off of us. Try imagining a world without the US!
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
A world without the U.S as of today would see a dramatic decline of pollution, regulation of ravagins corporations such as those I just talked about who get full support of the U.S govt to do as they please abroad.
You consume cus you CAN, that is the apex of recklessness. It doesn't matter how much you pay, you pay exactly to those you so despice, foreign GOVERNMENTS, who are thoroughly corrupted. You think the natives get a share of oil income? Do you?
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn I don't know. I do know if they were communist, they would not get any either. We have the highest standard of living because we have the greatest system in the world. If their system sucks, then their government should fix it. You want to blame all the corruption in the world on the US and capitalism. Corruption exists in every government to some measure. Yes, even in Sweden!
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Actually, another fault. The U.S does not havet he highest standard of living, absolutely not divided on the hwole of your population. I think permanent trailer parks is unheard of in the streets of most European cities.
Capitalism is built on redistribution of wealth too, every economic system is, in some way or another, trade and exchange. But capitalism in particular emphasizes the need of a poor and weak part to exploit, not to trade with as an equal.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn We do have the highest standard of living and the greatest amount of personal freedom. I am not sure what trailer parks have to do with anything.
Capitalism is built on the concept of individual freedom and creativity. It allows individuals to benefit from their own hard-work and/or talent. It does not allow the government to define what, where, and who we are. There is no need for poor or weak. There are always the poor and weak, and we take VERY good care of them.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
hahah what kind of bullshit was that, not even one true fact, good record, only lies.
Capitalism is built on extraction fro am weak part fo redistribute material factors to the owner of tyhe mans of production.
Do you think those that work and sweat day out and day in at plantations and factories throughout the world benefit as they should do from their own work? No, that does corpulent managers in West. <_<
trailer parks are for the socially excluded and poor.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
1. you do not havet he highest standard of living. I am talking from U.N lists, you from your fantasy world.
2. Trailer parks is a phenomena for those whose house got taken by bankers.
3. The greatest amount of freedom? Are you kidding me, even Sweden has more freedom than you, you even censor television.
4. It allows large employers to define who you are, who you shall vote for, what your salary shall be, where you shall live. early 1900s South America is a goodexample.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn 1) The UN says Costa Rica has a better healthcare system than we do. I guess everyone will start sneaking in their illegally next. 2) Trailer Parks have nothing to do with banks or houses being lost. They are a low cost and low maintenance form of housing. 3) I guess that is why everyone wants to go to Sweden. 4) No, the corporations do not determine any of that in America. Each individual has the right to determine those things for themselves. You are living in the past.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
1. Well I'd rather believe a expert panel in the UN than you and I seriosuly do not have hard to accept that Costa Rica has better health care than you, but you are free to tell me where that came from.
2. Unworthy and disgraceful form of housing for socially excluded, I mean, it's like mobile ghettos. -_-
3. ??? You mean all Iraqis bombed out oft heir homes by the U.S Army?
4. Actually, I am seeing a broader context and not your ultra narrowmindedness.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Expert UN panels? The UN is a political, mostly socialist, organization made up of petty dictators and failing socialist states. We can trust the UN on everything right? Research "Oil for Food".
Mobile home parks are NOT ghettos! Some are very exclusive places, especial in Florida where lots of rich old people go to retire. You really need to do some research.
You have been misinformed again. Yes, we use bombs in a war. Yes, there is collateral damage. Never intentionally
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Hahaha, SOCIALIST? xD Why the fuck does U.S and Russia have vetoes then, the most fascist countries there are, leave your veto to a true socialist nation then instead of keeping up the conservative corruption of nations that just want to be left alone.
You know very well I do not speak about your 0,00001% ultra billionares...
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Yeah, right we are fascists?
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Well actually, I could very well imagining at least every person who has even spoken on Fox News (Even the guy that supported car bombing iranian officials) a fascist.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
I did look into this Costa Rica deal and ended up on NYTimes about a former Bank of America CEO who went down there as a socalled medical tourist. "85,000 Americans choose to travel abroad for medical procedures each year, according to a recent report by the consulting firm McKinsey & Company. The cost of surgery performed overseas can be as little as 20 percent of the price of the same procedure in the United States." But Costa Rica got universal health care too, communists
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn It is great if you want a cheap tummy tuck but if they botch the surgery, don't plan on suing anyone.
The cost of medical care is too high in the US. The problem is that the government has screwed up the free market. It fails to pay the full cost of Medicare and Medicaid patients. It fails to regulate the cost of litigation. It restricts competition. This drives up the cost.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Dude that wasn't even 1% reasonable, xD You keep on blaming the govt for somethign that has gone on for yEAQRS (Get it?) even when your ultra rightwing extremists sat in power.
Even when Bush deregulated everything and let the insurance companies fraudulently rob poor citizens of the last you had. Medicare and whatever always has strict requirements you have to reach for you to get part. Ofc it's formed so no poor can ever get help.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn President Bush did not deregulate everything. Insurance is HIGHLY regulated. Medicare has rampant fraud and abuse and outrages pricing. You need to learn about the fact before you speak about this country.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
How come so many CAN NOT AFFORD insurance then? The only insurance option is private and that Medicare business just show how immature your population is that it fall into corruption on even touching public responsibility issues.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Again, you have fallen victim to propaganda. The reason that insurance is expensive is because healthcare is expensive. Healthcare is expensive because the government promised benefits to the old and to the poor but does not cover the full cost of those benefits. The government reimburses only 80% of cost on Medicare and 60% on Medicaid. This shifts the costs to the rest of us, which increases the prices. The more the government promises, the less they are actually paying for.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
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@CommonSenseJoe ---
"The more the government promises, the less they are actually paying for." Which ofc is either complete nonsense or as a wonder of stupidity a completely isolated situation for America.
Health care IS expensive and that is EXACTLY why the govt should redistribute wealth from those who have it in excess to those who crawl on the pavements.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Btw just to comment another baseless lie:
"There are always the poor and weak, and we take VERY good care of them."
Do you know what this all began with? I don't know how many homeless, criminal, drugabusing, alcoholic and gangsters there are in every major U.S city but the fact is that you don't care a shit for them.
Well ofc, sorry that is relative, i ought to put the U.S in the African leauge. In social politics, you belong in the third world.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn You really need to stop watching TV so much. You can hardly compare your nation of 9,259,000 to our country of over 300,000,000 people. As conservatives continue to grow in power, we will deal with the "gangsters" and such. We spend billions ever year caring for these people. We have been doing it in the wrong way.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Hahahahahahah, xD When conservatives come to power, which country will be next to be invaded because you see fit? Fucking immoral hypocrits are what conservatives are. I love when Bill Oreally said "Capitalism is highly moral", immideately came into my mind Nigerians having their fresh water polluted by oil rigs owned by Chevron and Shell. Lovely capitalism is, just lovely.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn That's right blame capitalism and Chevron and Shell, but NEVER blame the Nigerians. It is their dam country. Let them do something about it.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Well they can not becauset he U.S-dominated IMF will choke economic assistance ift hey do you fucking hypocrit retard, learn somethign about how the actual world works. They are held hostage in what's called a privatized market owned by a few mega corps.
underbjorn 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@underbjorn Right, and they have NO control at all. They are just victims.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Okay back to square one becausey ou lack long-term memory.
No they are not all victims you idiot.
The government is complicit and corrupted and works together with whatever outside elements can keep them in power, I mean that's how logical it can get and you still don't get it. xD
But you clearly lack a picture oft he outside world. Most countries actually try to keep in power also by keeping their population satisfactory and the pop needs FOOD on the table, thus IMF loan
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Right, and America is the center of all evil in the world because we are so successful. If we did not consume so much then the Big corporations would not need to steal these nations' resources. They could plant food and feed themselves. They would lead such good, natural lives until the next epidemic came through or natural disaster. It is our fault that their government is corrupt because we loan them money to buy food. We should stop that as well.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Actually, everything you just said with an obvious hint of sarcasm is what I mean.
One, you like the propaganda minister oreilly never defiens successful when talking about America as to relate it to actual successful countries such as my own.
Well if you did not consume so much, the Chinese would, so that's not my point. The point is the latter, the way resources are being handled. Shall they be shipped for profit of Chevron at expense of natives or giving natives a share
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn I don't know how you define success in your country. For Americans, success is whatever I want to do with MY FREEDOM. I don't want the government taking away all of the risks in life because with the risks go the rewards. If you want the natives to get more of the profits, then you need to work to get their governments to think that way.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
I define success as the best standard of living and most social and political freedoms to the largest portion of the national population.
And regarding your entrenchment in everything is govt fault in Africa, no, there is no way in getting their govts to "think that way" as long as they get pumped millions of money from f.e oil extractors for profitable land concessions and drilling rights in native areas.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Then the problem is changing the government, not attacking oil companies.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Completely stupid again, it's about removing the incentives for continued corruption which are the complicit foreign elements that robs the local population of their right to use their own resources of nature.
The govt will never change if it benefits from the rich corporations so that is not an issue until they no longer benefits and the corporations take something you never heard of but it is called social responsibility which is not equal to dumping waste in fresh water.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
"Deal with these gangsters". Man you sound like Hitler, but hey, he was abit more right-wing than you but maybe he's somekind of idol of yours.
Actually it's all about proportions so yes, I will continue to compare European nations with the U.S, the difference in drug crime, gun crime (Wow surpirse there, xD), murder rates, hate crime and corruption.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn When you do that, factor in the fact that WE provide for your protection under NATO!
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
We will when we join NATO. Until then we will not let us be corrupted, keep our sovereign independence andu phold the one single reason to have a government: to grant welfare to it's subjects.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Whether you are in NATO or not, you benefits from our military presence there.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Your military presence where? This country has survived for 500 years and I think your filthy war crime-pumed propaganda apparatus will make minimal difference in peace time and maybe even hostile changes in war time, like you thought about diverting resources for an invasion of Sweden during the second world war.
And ofc regardless of what lies you spew out, we will support every people's right to self-determination free of imperialist corruption.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Well, good for you. I guess it is easy to sit out the big wars and then be critical of the small ones. Maybe we should have let Hitler take over your country!
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Maybe you should have, xD
underbjorn 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
You spend millions of food and medicine?
Oh sorry, just watched a show of how Republicans prioritated tax cuts for billionares in front of granting health care to the emergency personell responding to 9/11.
Of course you spend millions on food and medicine, millionares often eat expensive food and take expensive diet medicine, =) Too bad your charity can nto stand against the structures of the status quo, the cold redistribution of underpriced raw material to the west.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Your show was biased and you don't even realize it. We did not give tax cuts to billionaires. We simply maintained our present tax rates for everyone. Our tax system is broken.
Your envy of the rich must be eating your alive. Our charity far exceeds what you little country has ever done. Like I said before, we did not buy our raw materials from them, we would get them somewhere else. We adapt and overcome. That is what makes our system great!
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Uhm you exploit and extract, that is what makes your kids overweight and African kids starving to death.
You ever wondered why valuable raw materials are constantly underpriced while it is these raw materials that you can turn into a GREAT MANY things while the end products, cellular phones etc, are valued MUCH higher but these are useful for only one single need. And dumped back in Africa or whatever for them to want but never have.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn What makes our kids overweight is liberalism.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Haha, explain fucktard.
What makes your kids overweight is McDonalds. How is mega corporate chains liberalism? It's the exact opposite, liberals stand for a "free market", not oligarchy.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn I cannot spend my life trying to correct all of your misconceptions about America. Kids are FAT because the government GIVES away food to the "poor" at every turn. They get food stamps, free breakfasts, and free lunches. We don't have time in our school days for gym and recess anymore. Every kid is entitled to bus ride to and from school. They don't mow grass or shovel snow anymore. Blaming McDonalds for kids being overweight is as flawed as blaming the Swiss for chocolate.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
<_< If the kids have a choice, do you not think they'd prefer eating at McDonalds? You like choice, that's what they have.
So you'd rather see poor kids starve because rich kids are fat? I mean, you never had any logic, but it's all too obvious as well.
That you don't have gym in school is another surprise, seems to underscore the way your schools goes down the gutter, Bush loves cutting funding to public schools, didn't he, while driving two wars costing trillions.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn You miss the whole point. We have POOR fat kids because we give their parents FREE food. I grew up in a family of 8. NONE of us were overweight because we worked hard everyday as well as went to school. My mom and dad housed, clothed, and fed us all on a laborer's wages. Don't presume to lecture me about poor kids starving. The only way a child starves in America is if their parents are idiots.
Again, if you take both sides of the argument, you will win ever time.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
<_<
I don't care where or in what conditiosn you grow up, I still geus you are like 100 years old and grew up when black people were still deemed mentally inferior etc etc. At least in your country.
get this, you think most poor kids are overweight? There are millionso ve obese persons in the U.S, it's in your culture to eat fastfood and unhealthy food, whenever healthy, ntruient-strong food comes on the agenda, I bet you say that's communist too.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn You have no idea what you are talking about. You keep ignoring what I say and invent your own narrative. We have tremendous freedom to choose in this country because of our high standard of living. We make good and bad choices. Being overweight is not McDonald's problem. It is an individual choice made by individuals.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
yes so how is it liberals fault then? You are contradicting yourself in each and every comment you make, this is just annoying and you are most probably a troll.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn It is the liberals who have run education into the ground.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
So first it's the liberals fault kids are fat, now it's their fault education is shit.
Is it their fault 9/11 happened too? What more amusing bullshit do you have on Christmas Eve.
Btw if you see some frost-covered hobo seeking for a shelter please be kind to him and do not beat him up because he is negro, it's Christmas after all and he at least deserves to not die outside. =)
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Like I said before, I have worked with the poor for three decades. I could care less what a person's skin color is. I have dealt with food programs, shelters, and many other means to help poor people.
No, I blame the parents of the kids. I don't want the government legislating parental responsibilities. If my kid is fat, I will control what he or she eats, not Michelle Obama.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
So how then is liberals the fault of kids being obese is they want (But not yet have) legislated a mean of counter obesity, xD
If it's the parents' fault and conservatives want the matter to be in the parents control, then per automatik it's not really about liberals anymroe, now is it.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn What you don't realize is that this is the way liberals work. They, through government, create the problem and then determine that MORE government is the answer. They screw up the free market and then determine that ONLY the government can fix it. Housing, healthcare, and yes, obesity are all problems created by government.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
So tell me now, how obesity actually is a problem of the big horrendous liberal government. Don't think it's popped up as a new issue the moment Obama was inaugurated.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn As I said before, the government GIVES these people free food with no responsibilities. Everyday we hear about children going to bed hungry and then complaints they are too fat. It is nothing more than the liberals seek an excuse to interfere in the FREE MARKET. If you don't like McDonalds or Burger KIng, then DON"T eat there. It is just that simple.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
You are so incredible, xD
OBVIOUSLY it is not the same peopel who go to bed hungry that are fat, -_- besides, just to point out, "Everyday we hear about children going to bed hungry" <---That really seems like a third world country.
The govt gives free food? Soyou want them to STAVRE so they arent fat? Are you fucking idiotic again, besides you lot want the PARENTS to choose and if they choose McDonalds its their and YOUR fault, not the govt.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Because you defy to see reality and play blind like a child which has been presented with facts it cannot accept:
Yes ofcourse they change governments as they change shoes if they have to have a revolution everytime the CIA doesnt like the president, fucking imperialists.
Well good thing was, a general embargo through the UN against the miltiary leaders. =D
Oh wait, the U.S exempted American corporations from the embargo, feeding the coup leaders and your commerce.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Right, CIA is running the world and everyone else is innocent as the wind driven snow.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Nope, no outside force can do things in another country without indigenous help of course. So they seek out the most corrupt and easily-influenced elements and make them pawns.
These corrupt elements aren't innocent, but they get backing from interests that they could never otherwise have gotten support from.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn True for both sides. Do you think the Communists wanted to help for the good of people? Ask the 100,00's killed in Southeast Asia!
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Communism is an extreme form of socialism which I do not promote, stop putting your bullshit in my mouth. Besides I clearly define people like Pol Pot and Stalin as a disgrace to even communism as more fascist, although not including such things as nationalism and white supremacism that usually comes with right-wing extremism.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn One begins with socialism and works their way towards total government control.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Nope, welcome to reality.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Haha, oh you meant if the project was PAYING for everybody to get al ong and healthy life, xD
No, haha no.
I talk about the 1966 split up of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, of which the first half, granting political rights, supported by the U.S, and the second, granting social and cultural rights, supported bu the USSR. Ofcoursem uch has changed since then, but they are not PAYING for anything, xD The US dont give a damn about the latter rights even.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Yeah, and we all know how well the USSR keeps their word. Lots of the world is socialist. Of course, they want "social rights". We did not become the greatest nation on earth through socialism, but through capitalism. We created the highest standard of living for the greatest number of people without the government trying to control our lives. If you want to living in a government designed house, drive a government designed car, and live a government run life, Fine, not me.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Ands again, you show total ignorance for reality outside the U.S. The U.S isn't much better in keeping it's words, so that "argument" is just empty.
Then your fantasy abour government-designed everything, well, once more, fantasies or remnants from an era which ended 20 years ago. Highest standard? You mean that because the average American consumes more meat, automobiles, fossil fuels, and paper than any other nation per capita that's high standard? xD
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn I am sure sure what you mean so I cannot answer. America has kept it's promises to me and my family for generations.
If the government controls everything (socialism) then I am absolutely correct. If the government controls healthcare, then they control whatever treatments are available to me. They determine what gets researched and what does not. If the government controls the auto industry, they determine what cars get built and which do not.
YES, exactly!
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Yeeea, well maybe your family and generations beat up blacks, enslaved them, drove away natives and persecuted suspected communists, I don't know. What I do know is that every time America talks about liberty, democracy and freedom, its so full of shit. Yes you might be a constitutional republic and blabla, but you are never, nor have you ever been, a true defender of freedom and liberty. Every single U.S-supported coup in the last century has led to major oppression.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Is Iraq under "major oppression"? No, it has a democratic government. A perfect government? NO, but better than under Saddam. Have we caused coups? Yes, and not every one was the right thing to do, but they were not all bad. Some were necessary to oppose communist expansion.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Yes and was "communist expansion" always bad? NO. They elected a socialist in Chile, ELECTED him, and what did you do? Support one of the most brutal juntas in South America and sent down laissez-faire economists to create a capitalist experiment on the Chilean population. Disgusting.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn I like I said, they were not all good. Sometimes, they are necessary.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Necessary? So you DEFEND the Chile coup? Are you fucking retarded, necessary for whom? So if he would raise the minimum wages forcing the American corporations to adhere, it is NECESSRY for you to intervene? You are fucking sick, it is NECESSARY to end U.S world dominance, that is what's necessary.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Did I say that? If you are going to provide both sides of the discussion, I guess I can quit. I was not talking about Chile or the minimum wage. I was talking about defending our nation from Communism.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
And you labeled a workers promoter as communist, is that a reason to support an oppressive dictator...?
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn I did not say he was a communist. I said we needed to prevent the expansion of Communism. Soviet Union was attempting to box us in by interfering in these countries as well. I did not say everything they did was right.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Yes, by that reasoning, the PRC which long has used western encroaching as a conspiratorial theory whenever relations deteriorate has all the right to intervene in neighbouring countries that has implemented a more or less democratic market economy.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn They have always interfered with other nations. This is nothing knew. I guess from your prospective it is the lesser of two evils.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
The difference is that in the west, the PRC isn't viewed as an acceptable world force in the same manner as the United States sadly is. Ofc this is broad generalization, the anti-U.S factions in Europe has always been strong, Sweden a prime example of that, but still there is a broad consensus of letting American selfinterests guide other nations, such as spending lives in turning Iraq from a stable but harsh dictatorship into carbombers Somalia.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn That's because we are different from the PRC. We don't put our political enemies in prison and torture them. We don't make people disappear in the night. We don't invade other countries just because we can. You keep sidestepping the FACT that Saddam invaded Kuwait. He started the fight and we finished it. Iraq is not Somalia. It is funny how you blame the US but not the terrorists who intentional kill women and children. It must be great to be the neutral Swiss.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Uhm yes you put political enemies in prison or persecute them. We learn about McCarthyism in school, Guantanamo Bay and secret CIA prisons in countries like Egypt are well known, how the civil rights movement were branded communist and harassed. I don't care what Saddam did, you responded but the 2003 invasion was NOT because of what Iraq did in 1990, get a grip of time, <_<
Bush spewed shit about mass destruction just to get a reason to spend trillions of dollars somewhere
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn ---
And please, PLEASE, don't come with more lies about how we are being brainwashed about all this in school or in media. It's just not bringing this anywhere with more conservative bullshit which both of us know are untrue. The U.S has done many brutal things and while China has done so too, theirs has been INSIDE THEIR BORDERS. One war on Vietnam won't count up to all U.S coups and interventions against freedom and democracy during the last century.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn Of course it won't because YOU said so. Maybe the next world war we will let them just take over your country and we will just stay home. Yes, the US has done many brutal things. I am not denying it. These were wrong. On balance, we have spilled our blood many times over for other countries and peoples so that they can live free. It is not a question of being brainwashed, but BRAIN-DEAD. Look at Europe today and then try to tell me that socialism works.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, all has had socialist governments of some kind during the later half of the last century. Tell me it didn't work, please tell me.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn “We’re now in rescue mode,” said Carl Bildt, Sweden’s foreign minister. “But we need to transition to the reform mode very soon. The ‘reform deficit’ is the real problem,” he said, pointing to the need for structural change."
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
Well when you get your education about the world outside the U.S and your fantasy world, you will see that he was talking about efficiency and no matter how conswervative government we will get here, they will never threaten the welfare state
Carl Bildt is a member of a conservative political party which is now in power, they have done cutdowns, but they will always stand by to defend the social democratic prosperity.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn You have been misinformed. We have not had McCarthyism for decades. Guantanamo was NEVER used for political opponents, only for TERRORISTS. Of course you don't care what Saddam did. Your kind never does. The US is always wrong and always evil. Saddam invaded Kuwait and that is what started this WHOLE THING. Saddam was trying to get WMDs. That is a fact. Had he complied with the inspections, there would have been no questions or doubts.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe ---
So you say Bush invaded Iraq 13 years after his fathers invasion for the exact same reason, a 13 year old issue that was deemed finished even then?
Jesus Christ, -_-
What you label terrorist is highly subjective, your kind even said they weren't included in the Geneva Convention so you can do as you wish with them. Yes, I have seen the Abu Ghraib pictures and also from Guantanamo. Disgraceful and disgusting, third world dictatorship style.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@underbjorn No, I say P