The Ninja Sword - real or fake? Shinobi Soldiers Ep 4

[TheTokugawaShinobi]

Excellent!

[FAUN99]

hi im back i couldnt find a good comedy website so i thought i would watch yours

[SokaSua]

Oh and they usually average about 37 inches in length

[SokaSua]

the "Ninja sword" is quite frankly just a usual katana maybe with some tribal designs on the handle and markings on the blade.

[OMFGHUGEWOLF]

Most of what I have read etc, mostly what I see says the straight sword ("ninja sword") is from artist pictation of ninja's using straighter swords then samuria and that is where the main belief came from.

Nothing more then artistic inturpritation. With the japanese the straight sword was "obsolete" rather early on.

[Ozzy2817]

What about post 1603? To me, the most logic would be that the shinobi used katanas/wakazashis picked up from defeated samurais. But I dont know rly :S

[jin54363]

the so called ninja swords, where actually katana used by samurais

[BuffonMusa]

Good research.

But don't flatly believe Shoninki and Bansenshukai, those were written for praise their ninja ancestors and the time those were written, there was "Hyoho boom" 兵法ブーム (yoshie-san may explain better). Shinobi didn't limit their katana, they used both daito and wakizashi when they needed. And when you research historical facts, you should interview professor instead of dojo master though i have a big respect katori shinto ryu. Oral history is also effected by myth oftenlly.

[TSOAS2008]

mainly the shoninki and bansenshukai, i understand that you do not trust them but they tend to match parts of teh ninpiden and its strange that most real manuals refelct the same skills. the bits in the manuals you have to watch out for are not the skills but the ethics. i see what you are saying but the main "false" bits are how noble the shinobi were.

[MrDildoSmith]

you should put on a video about the raping of the sword and how shinobi they tie up there swords

[xbuki]

Hey Jay Kane, you could have come up with at least one illustration couldnt you?

[TSOAS2008]

hahah do you know jay? but well done. yes he could. he is a lazy mofo who does not do his job properly.

[hian]

No, the disarming the Japanese peasants started before the Tokugawa regime, in the momoyama period(which overlaps the sengoku jidai, and pretty much ends it), and was enforced by Toyotomi Hideyoshi in 1588.

Just for the sake of clarity.

[TSOAS2008]

hahah, sorry for being too simplistic. the point stands but you are correct. what date did it start? do we know that. and what are you thoughts on its enforcment?

[hian]

@TSOAS2008

No problem mate,

As for dates, I cannot pin-point it to days or month, although there might be Japanese sources that does - But, one source I have states 1587-1588, and another simply states 1588.

As for how well it was enforced; Japan's penal system seems to have consisted of death penalty, and incarceration pending death penalty, so I would imagine it being enforced just like that. How well they managed controlled the armament of individuals is questionable though.

[hian]

continue:

Another source I found refers to "the sword hunt" of 1593. How this links to the disarming, if it was done in several waves, or in one long continuous effort is hard to say, but the latter seems likely to the social order, and large population of Japan.

Toyotomi also enforced nation-wide surveys, a complete census, and finally restricted people to their fiefs, which probably all contributed to making the nation easier to disarm and surveil.

[TSOAS2008]

I have heard, and this is not authenticated that at times within this period the law was lacks. Also, i was uder the impression that people could carry a shortsword for protection? the main sword laws were against wear daishio or massing weapons. To be honest it not somthing i know much about. i just know it supports the points in the vid. Any thoughts?

[hian]

@TSOAS2008 I cannot verify whether that is true, but based on the structure of medieval societies, it is indeed hard to imagine how such a law could be completely enforced.

As for what weapons were allowed or not, one sources states:

"In the "Sword Hunt" of 1593, Toyotomi Hideyoshi forbade the peasant class from possessing weapons including swords, guns, and knives."

[5T0RML0RD]

hehe i'd just rob some samurais expensive sword

[TSOAS2008]

oh yeh, down with that. just nick em!

[lordtains]

I also read that straight swords were practically impossible to forge. The sword bends because of the forging process. But it's common knowledge that because of the big sword ban they started using many other tools to be used as weapons.

[BuffonMusa]

@lordtains

???Is that common knowledge outside of Japan? The big sword ban is Hideyoshi's katanagari刀狩り, right? The main purpose of the sword ban was to separate samurai and other lower social rank. So the lower rank people temporary lost swords but soon they got it back. In Edo period, ordinary people carried wakizashi but they had daito or spear or whatever at home. Real sword ban was 廃刀令 in 1876 Meiji period.

[Raposamandinga]

@nivenheim Also the straight sword was a symbolic tool in Shinto temples, if I remember right. The problem of the ninja sword is that techniques, tools and skills wasnt codified. The tech you described was only an example of creativity, like using the scabbard to breath under wather, adapting to necessity. Probably, each Ryu teached different tricks and had different tools, like the shuko for Togakure. This way maybe one Ryu used straight swords, who knows, and the folklore made it a rule.

[Creationsofmyown]

from what i have heard, Dean, aka Scottbaioisdead here on YT, has said that the straight bladed ninjato came from Hayes... so its about as ninja as hatsumi...

[Raposamandinga]

I have read somewere, that the ninjas, atleast the low ranked ones, who couldnt buy an expensive sword, went on battle fields and collected the broken swords of dead warriors. So these sword were recycled and repaired, thus being shorter and less curved. Also this way, the sheath being longer than the sword, in a suddent extraction they could had advantage. I think this is only a legend, but sometimes legends have a base of truth in them. Bye.

[TSOAS2008]

that is a good theory! i like it, but it would also mean that common people would have been famous for short blades and long scabards? not just the ninja? just a thought? are you on facebook? join the shinobi Soldiers group and put this theory in there?

[Raposamandinga]

@TSOAS2008 Hi, thank you, that was probably an old story, but I think the character of the Ninja had a special place in immagination of common peoples, thus being the center of legends and storyes. Please read my other comment up here. I ll' search for the Shinobi group, but I have to tell you I'm not very often on Face Book. Glad you liked my comment. Bye.

[painsey]

i said it doesnt matter if a modern ninjato is not historically accurate ninjutsu evolves, at what rank was you after the ten years? (just asking)

[Creationsofmyown]

painsey, as usual your argument is halfbaked at best...

the fundemental aspect of evolution is shared descent. there is no shared descent between any practitioner alive and feudal japan... not 1....

it such a descendent/ practitioner were to exist they would be recognized by atleast 1 of the koryu societies...

so how can something evolve from something it isnt related to?

slapping modern in front of a term doesnt mean its accurate. it just means you dont know much about classification

[painsey]

oh ok my argument as usual is half baked, are you talking about ninjato swords or the right to carry a firearm for protection?

[Creationsofmyown]

uh i quite clearly destroyed your weak attempt to argue that ninjutsu evolves...

the problem with this "evolving ninjutsu" nonsense is that it totally defeats the purpose of naming things...

[painsey]

what is your point? stop trying to troll

[painsey]

it doesnt matter if a modern ninjato is not historically acurate, ninjutsu evolves

[TSOAS2008]

Painsey, i have removed your comment on the Shinobi Soldier warring: this was by acciden, i hit the wrong button can you write it again?

[TSOAS2008]

you asked how long have i trained for? i trained about 10 years in the bujinkan. then i started to question it, not the skills but its origin. your question is redundant. A it does not matter how long i trained, as there are possibly no ninjutsu teachers in the world that teach historical ninjutsu. so really no one trains in it? but i have translated with my Japanese partner 4 ninja scrolls. i think that gives me some authority?

[TSOAS2008]

plus the first of those scrolls will be out for the first time in english,

[painsey]

@TSOAS2008 of course we cant get training e.g. in explosives etc with what the ninja knew about, what about Hatsumi with his knowledge would you say he is the closest link to ninjutsu of today, i also sense a vibration of dislike from you to me with my comment, if not i appologise

[TSOAS2008]

Hi,

i have a slight dislike, me ad hatsumi had a bit of a fall out (his kicked me out for questioning!) but the point is this. Hatsumi claims to teach Ninjutsu but in all of the historical scrolls there is zero martial arts. explain? he makes alot of money from teaching ninja secrets and about 80% is martial arts. i agree he has lots of ninja infomation and a good link.

[TSOAS2008]

but its all research in my opinion and he is not a direct ninja master. all the clues scream that his ninja line is fake. his martial arts is good, his knowledge is ok but historicaly it is out of place

[TSOAS2008]

sorry bout that. i did meet im, just my northen accent!

[scottbaioisdead]

otake not otaka.