@dkurmanov I would be careful if I were you.. lol, wouldn't wanna be called a dumbass now would you? and YOU'RE NOT, so watch what you say cuz it's just logic not to call people names at the age of however old you and I are.
@missylapian06 Okay fair enough - however, I do not retract what I said because this man causes a lot of harm and doesn't understand what neither pantheism or panentheism are. As a panentheist, I guess I should know. And I've met Mark and he was quite rude about my being gay and having a different opinion than he- AND-for telling me I was going to Hell. So no thanks to Mark. But yes, I said harsh words and I'm sorry, but he's just..ugh. -.-
The Christians are out busy making a difference in whatever big or small way they can, the homos sit here and cry against some man insulting them. As a Satanist I just sit back and laugh.
Electrons and photons make up everything, so yeah All is God. How we uses these instruments,these elements, are our choice. OUr perception is the line between good and evil. And since they are subjective neither can be validated. Getting people to look to the vanity, arrogance and ego of their own desires justifies nothing and helps no one.
@8osiris God as a concept and nothing related to morals and human glorifying and that's the thing. The thing is most of the bad outweighs the good in humans, not just in human minds but the type of sentient enviroment we exist in.
All that it is is replicating a DNA molecule through sadism, addiction, reproduction and consumption and nothing is really good out of a system like that since it has no concept of it. What the hell is so "beautiful, meaningful, purposeful" about that? There's so much horror associated with that as you see many times in nature? And it's not just living things.
There's nothing benevolent as a God in this existence, but some if not many spiritualists, pantheists, and panentheists that I have seen think there's something more to be appriciated of when there rarely isn't - it's all nothing but an illusion of a psychology just to glorify our petty existence, another pervertion of what we really are as animals.
The only thing that would mean something is sentience besides that, anything else is nothing regardless if there is nothing after death or such. And even sentience can be "corrupted" by negatives and it mostly is in humans based on themselves and what the enviroment induces.
Even if humans have a bias towards negative and positive feelings and that there isn't likely a God or that life is meaningless in the end, I don't think it's invalid to say we can make a judgement and percieve what they are at it's fundamental or conceptual basis, especially in terms of sentience.
Not with draconic labels like good and evil, even though they can be as real in terms of a judgement on pain and pleasure, but with labels of positive and negative and how it affects a sentient being of itself and to another sentient being. It's still real and even if we die it's still going to be there.
Whether one believes a God doesn't exist or not, the very thing that stays and is fundamental to the development of religion is glorifying our petty existence or something else's in a stupid universe that doesn't need to exist, in a stupid, very delusional/illusional manner and regard it as something of artificial merit. And that's a joke. This is coming from an atheist.
@Tetzukai First line: huh? Glorifying? The seven deadly sins at its best. The precurser to war. Never mind that warring in heaven requires hate and thus denying the whole concept of what your gods stands for. Never mind we as a people take gods name in vain everyday. nothing to do with saying Goddamn. But the fact that the name of God, the breath of God, is written on all things. Ether, electron and Photon. But your confort is worth every thing you destroy and call holy. I know vain, and one
@8osiris My God? I don't believe in one, I have no reason to even in an agnostic perspective. I'm just accepting what reality is through a sentient mind. It's mostly a crude, brutal existence of rarely no relief of positives and it's all at the purpose of replicating a DNA molecule - a mechine in terms of life. I should had proof read that.
What I mean is no one can't glorifying nature with theistic beliefs, especially if those theistic beliefs are related strongly on conforting emotions that are irrational and the carnage from human emotions are obvious because of the horrible mechanics of life. Humans generally glorify their pain through theistic means, and it's ridiculous.
That's not what God is if you're talking about benevolence, which even in the bible contradicts thats. We don't even know that a creator exists or not. Besides that, it's just an archaic metaphor which science doesn't need to describe life and it's origins as we know of now and that that kind of god apprently doesn't exist, so we're somewhat stuck with the agnostic perspective.
2:49 The holocaust... soooooo. Nazis went to hell because they were wrong and evil. So did the Jews because they didn't believe in Christ? Wheres the justice in that? Oh right sorry. I thought we were talkin logic. He makes sense now. hehehe
To a pantheist or any intelligent person, Pastor Mark Driscoll is like most clerics, he's merely a con man who HAS to try and disconnect people from God so that he can then "Bring them back to God'" and thus exploit the spiritually ignorant to make a living. Because if he really thought about what he's saying here. he would see that he sounds like a simple street hustler and nothing else. To most Pantheist (As well as atheists and others), he's merely another clown, peddling a lie
I feel he is really condescending on this topic. I don't think my notebook is God, or that my cell phone is God. I feel that the universe and natural world is my higher being, or "God." It comes down to respecting the world and universe, and the creatures within it.
good an evil dont exist. Whats good to others, is evil to others. all there is, is respect, or a lack of respect. I say the christian bible has alot of evil in it. especially the Old testament. Why doesnt god heal amputees? hell, suicide isnt even a sin. the church declared it a sin in 364 AD so their followers wouldnt die, and they could pay them more taxes
@WorldMilitia But positive and negative emotions and how the affect the world exist and have real consequnces based on a merit, intention or unreasonable behaviour and we can make a judgement on it based on what sentience typically is. We all have it, regardless of bias and that we fundamentally would feel and know what pleasure and pain is.
he doesnt understand pantheism. He took it way too far. hell, the christian god gives people cancer a part of his plan....then we go against it by trying to cure it
@WorldMilitia or they ask people to pray for them. Which if it's according to God plan for someone to have cancer, then wouldn't it be a sacrilege to ask God to change his mind? Gotta love Christian hypocrisy
Depression, self-mediaction and suicide are also part of the lives of those who believe in "God and the Devil" and in justice at the end..... When approaching spirituality and divinity one must be careful not to generalize, stereotype or attack/judge. We all hold a piece of the big puzzle, the key is to listen to each other. Please remember that things that seem not to make sense at a certain point in time will make sense later :-)
The Pastor is just like I was as a Christian: sure of the Bible, sure of his understanding of other religions, and loud. I am an Aletheist, a seeker of the Truth, and that is why I no longer follow the "God" of the Bible. Problem for this fellow is, I do not fit into any of his 5 categories. Now I see the Bible is an old book put together by politically-oriented churchmen in the 3rd century. There is no reason to believe it is the word of any God, any more than the Qur'an.
Mark Driscoll on panentheism: “You have no hope of a final judgment in the end. If they got away with it, tough.” Evangelical Christianity doesn’t provide any hope for justice, and generates grave injustices. Killer Ted Bundy accepted the vicarious death of Jesus for the forgiveness of his sins hours before his execution. He's therefore forgiven and in heaven. If any one of his victims had failed to do the same, she’s unforgiven and in hell no matter how moral and giving she was.
what a superficial turd...waste of time. it always comes back to the fact that christians gloat in that they are going to be "rewarded" and others punished, for doing nothing. or wasting everyones time with triviality. ..and patting each others back. since it first started and to this very day. wheres the poetry, wheres the deeper meaning?
The problem about the Christian God is that this god fore-saw the fall of the angels and the fall of man and allllllllllll the pain that will come after. Yet he still decided to make it and let billions of people suffer through something Adam and Eve did.
I ask any who does not believe in Panetheism because they believe that God is separate from evil; " HOW CAN A PERFECT NON EVIL CREATOR (GOD) CREATE SOMETHING THAT IS CAPABLE OF BECOMING EVIL (SATAN).
I must say that Panetheism sounds must more realistic than the other views. The only argument against it is that there is no justice. Basicly fear the reason why people can't believe it. Instead the say that "This loving God is allowing all these things to happen for a reason buy he'll come soon and end it all". However, there are facts that cannot be denied.
You reap what u sow
The spirits of people cry out and has tremendous effects.
@ctsfinestjon If you're looking for justice on a spiritual level, which pantheism doesn't address, then look at karma where we do indeed "Reap what u sow." Also think of the spirit of God and the spirit of people as one single SPIRIT, not separate from one another as we're constantly taught by most religions today. Imagine the power that we as a species would (Do) have. Imagine what would happen to most of those religions once we all understood that, poof...GONE.
@coyoteself Amen, i totally agree with that statement. I am still looking into this stuff. I just came out of Christianity and im searching for truth. I am starting to believe that Our spirits and Gods spirit are ONE!! I believe Karma as well. I just dont know where to turn to know !!! I need to be taught truth and i feel religion is the first place to stay away from
@ctsfinestjon I know what you mean. I'm a Recovering Christian, who saw all the incongruities of the Bible 40 years ago and began my search for the "Truth" when I was in my early teens. Since then, it's been a very enlightening path and over those years I learned that the Truth is a lot like an incredible diamond that no one can tell you about . But instead should be seen from as many different perspectives as possible to be appreciated.
@ctsfinestjon My search lead me to look at Greek & American Indian philosophies, paganism (Not the Occult) Taoism & finally Zen Buddhism. All of them gave me a hint to how spirituality & science can actually coexist comfortably. But for that to happen, I first had to let go of the ancient concepts of a Divine Deity. Once I did that, it was like a light went on and it all made sense, even Jesus, but not the Jesus of the Bible.
Pantheism is nothing more than respect, love and wonder towards the Universe and everything that is part of it(including humans). I don't know where you got those ideas from. But I must remind you that, love, spirituality, respect and all other feelings and qualities are part of our humanity. Not part of a religion or heaven sent, we learned the hard way if you look at our history.
@TheSelfaware So you're saying the raping of a child is only "culturally evil"? So if YOU were raped then what do you have to say? "Its only relative so it doesn't matter that my humanity was taken from me. If I think its wrong its only my opinion. I'll just have to get on with my life while being emotionally disturbed." So being tortured against your will is not "wrong" its just "different"? And how does that make the world a better place or make life any easier?
Here is what God actually is to a pantheist: God is a synonym the universe and universe is a synonym for god. God isn't actually a being but rather an idea. This idea that something divine is out there. Out there meaning the universe. When a pantheist uses the word divine he means it as something that is amazing. Something that is beautiful. When you look up at a starry night we would say that that is divine, but only in a sense that it is amazing.
I think I have finally figured out why a lot of Christians annoy me so much. It is like a toddler with low self-confidence/esteem that constantly crys and wants to be spoon-fed and wants mommy and daddy to take care of them. Couple this with an unnatural desire to be with mommy and daddy and think that everyone else's mommies and daddies suck. "Oh no mommy i stubbed my toe and I have no idea how to make it better, please come and blow it a kiss"
lHe doesnt understand pantheism, if you feel god in all living things you do not need to build a temple or a church and tell people to come to your masonary structure with superior accustics to get you point across -- Authorative and dominant ideologies will be defeated and the truth (not the corrupted truth) will set our spirituality free
I get so excited when I hear people discussing the big questions of existence and God, the highest topics of philosophy. And then get very disappointed when I realize they are just dogmatic evangelizers who have formed an immovable opinion before they have even begun to seriously examine the issues.
It's so frustrating to see religious scholars, like this man, not fully exploring these issues with the depth and seriousness they deserve. The questions regarding the existence of God used to be looked at with the utmost seriousness and sincerity by the greatest living philosophers. Today the biggest questions humans can ask are left to hack religious teachers who don't give the topics the attention they deserve. Soooo sad.
This is a poor explanation of pantheism and panentheism. The distinction he made between the two is that pantheism views everything as God, and panentheism is in everything. This is not correct. Pantheism views the universe and God as two terms for the same thing. God does not exist outside of the universe, the universe does not exist outside of God. Panentheism suggests that the universe exists as a manifestation of God, but God exists INDEPENDENTLY from the universe.
Yessir, good and evil are shades of gray, there is no genocidal maniac coming to punish the bullys who take your lunch money, cancer and cigarette butts are equal to you on the universal level. Sorry about the blow to your ego. Take some therapy?
@MrCartoonguy I just want to say that there are records in history that prove Jesus existed... It's in the Bible and if you say the bible isn't true, there are record in history that the people who wrote the bible really did exist. If you're not sure look it up. Please.
Well, if he can say my Panentheistic views are lies I can say his Christian view are lies. I can also proudly say that my faith and fellow Panentheists haven't brutally murdered millions of people over the years.
The religion he preaches against is exactly what he is selling but with a shiny cover.
You can't appeal to anyone? Can people not talk to each other? Do you go to God for news on the weather or the weather man? This guy is giving multiple narrow views and making people think that suicide is at the end of anything but Christianity. This guy is a sick fuck who only wants your money.
all of you whom are offended at his message and accuse him of ignorance and bigotry, by your condemnation you're doing exaclty what Jesus said would happen. proving yet again that the gospel is truth
Modern science has came across a fascinating discovery of the membrane, based upon M Theory. That everything conceivable, yourself, water, the cigarette you just threw away and even the cancer cells you get are all made of an interconnected existence called the membrane. People have various opinions of what's good and what's evil, it's not uniformed worldwide. However, as we experience our own lives we often a blinded by the individualistic self perseverance and materialistic embrace.
Justice then? What happened to forgiveness? If this particular God were really so forgiving, he would forgive those who don't even ask to be forgiven, and there would be no judgement. With true forgiveness, there is no judgement.
What an awful man. He has no right to judge other views of life that he himself has not experienced. I'm not a pantheist and such, but I do think the idea is rather interesting, and simply another fine and innocent way of seeing the world.
good job making straw men of other worldviews. To be fair, monotheism is only the hope of a fearful immature person that somewhere in the sky is a big caring daddy, surfing in the clouds somewhere. Duality is for simpletons. Evolve and transcend, then see g0d was all pretend.
They put chemicals inside cigerrates, tard. Pantheism is the belief that all that is natural and living is apart of God. It is more of a philosophy. All things unnatural have caused the diseases and malfunctions in the human body and it's escalating every day. Seeing the Circle of Life as a energy of God is waaay much more believable than a sky daddy or someone i've never met in my life. Have you met your God? I have.
Bishop Berkeley's -a Catholic Christian- view was a kind of Christian Panentheism.
As for the issue with evil. This is a misunderstanding of the nature of evil. Evil is not a part of God because evil is like a "hole" so to speak. Whenever evil manifests it is not a thing in itself but an absence of Good/God.
Before and after the Gospel of John 10:31, and in 1 Corinthians 6 this issue is discussed in detail without using the misleading, arbitrary modern definitions of the terms atheism, deism, pantheism/panentheism, theism, christianity. Even the word "christianity" is a modern word with modern definitions, none of which agree with each other. God explained after I got a poor man to pray for understanding for me: "You are not your own" (1 Corinthians 6:19).
I would much rather believe that god in in everything, or everything is god, than to believe in bipolar, sociopath which the Bible calls "God." Seriously, think about it. If that god were a human, he would be serving several life sentences in prison for all the atrocities he has committed against his very own children, Besides Pantheism/Panentheism shows how even we are a part of god, and not separate from god like most Theistic/Deistic religions would have us believe
We're not saying that the mosquito or potato chip or your ugly necklace is god. That is plain shallow, and pantheism is definitely not shallow. You need to do more research and reading on this. On people like Osho and Alan Watts. We believe that we are all children of the universe. That divinity lies within the depths of the cosmos. It's a unity of ying and yang, because everything cannot exist without nothing, and vice versa. "Heaven and I were created together, and all things and I are one."
@xxxscenes pantheism does not state that "nothing" exists...we believe that everything is all there is...the concept of "nothing"...is more a concept of religion.."ex nihilo"...nothing does not exist...something is all there is to a pantheist..."nothing" is venturing into the supernatural...which most pantheists have no belief in
Without the contrast of positive and negative that's pre-built into this universe, neither the performer in the video or anyone else would have been able to discern one action from another. We would not have even recognized light from dark. I do believe the over-all universe is on a path of positive direction but we still had to see and know that contrast to even have or make a map. Negative actions get negative reactions and vice versa. So the idea of Pantheism and Panentheism is logical.
If you get cancer from smoking its your own fault. Pantheism offers a lot of hope, in Pantheism you are immortal. Your matter, will always exist. It will constantly be recycled into new things. I understand how you could interpret Pantheism this way but I assure you that death is just as natural as birth, and that you are without a doubt immortal. Go Pantheism and Panentheism!
By giving "it" human traits and assuming that "it" is limited, by saying that they know what "it" wants and likes... these Christian morons are bringing a huge insult to GOD. And all for the sake of carrying on living in their little bubble of false security and complete denial of responsibility. Fear and cowardice, that is what I see in this man and that is what I see in all religious folk. Snap out of it, people, and learn to deal with the reality around you.
Yes, Mr. ChristianDude, you understand it all perfectly: there is no "justice" in the sense that you wish for. There is no place made of puffy clouds waiting for you after you die. There is no man up in the sky giving directives and frowning on your actions. There is no "good" and "evil" in the World and if you paid any attention to the cycles of life and death in Nature, you'd see that death and disease are also necessary to entertain LIFE. To say that God cannot be those things is an insult
I agree with MariusDemocratius: this guy understands Pantheism but is too afraid to accept it. Instead of seeing the beauty and the freedom than Pantheism brings, he reacts like a small child on his first day of school: cried out for mummy and daddy, who are already far off on their way to work. Instead of playing with the other kids and enjoying his time there, all the new toys and games, he's afraid of this new situation where he's starting to become responsible for his own deeds.
If there is anything that is not God, then God is limited. If God is necessarily unlimited then there would, in this case, have to be a still greater God that contains the first and all the things which are not God.
well there is no absolute justice and there is no one you can blame for bad things, misfortune, your inferiority complex or your ignorant incompetence. get over it and start taking responsibility.
btw. kudos to the many intelligent and thoughtful comments, quite rare to see in a discussion about religion.
Wow. I'm sick of "cool" preachers. These douchebags just talk and talk about shit that they don't even know about. He obviously didn't do any kind of research on pantheism. If he did e probably just read the thesis statement at the start of the wiki page or just left out the parts he didn't like.
In their minds, its alright to go around enslaving and killing organsims they view as being "lesser" or "submissive" like cattle and poultry and others, as long as its not their own two hands doing the dirty work. And how convenient, isn't it... that Jehovah would set us up in a place of power and dominion. Aren't we lucky? What a coincidence for us to be God's chosen species. Its a good thing we have such strong imaginations, otherwise we might be as mundane as the beasts, eh?
Being eaten may be wrong in the eyes of a gazelle, but starvation is wrong in the eyes of a lion. Humans are no different. If it comes down to it, you kill or starve. Christians like to eat God's tasty animals, but they don't like to envision the slaughter of each cow or the grinding of flesh through a thresher.
More importantly, christianity assumes there is only one divine Judge. But pantheism teaches there are trillions upon trillions of judges, every sentient organsim that has ever achieved consciousness in a physical body. And what if they disagree? Well, how do we resolve it? Force. Strength. Speed. Intelligence. Dexterity. Be the best at the competition for life that you take part in. Its your life or mine, pal. That's how every single species in the world solves problems.
This may not apply to all pantheists, but as far as I am concerned I determine right and wrong by whether or not harm is being brought upon any piece of the universe that is capable of feeling, like most animals for example, and whether there is any benefit to such a harmful action. Once an organism is dead it feels no pain. But while it is alive, pain is an indicator of right and wrong.
Ive always said, if there truly is a Christian God then he sure as hell picked some real fruit cakes to spread his will. I sure hope this guy makes some more videos, I could use a laugh.
@p4gs You twisted what he said, and you make absolotely no sense. I cant beleive you actually got thumbs up for that. Shows how much ignorant and "logical people " there are in the world. Such a dang pity.
@Ridikai First of all, I'm not sure what I was doing when I posted that since it seems pretty sloppy. For instance, the definition of pantheism that I provided is off a bit. Pantheism: God is everything (in a holistic sense). Mark tries to say that parts of everything, such as a human's cancer cells/tumor or a cigarette butt, is God Himself; however, Pantheism doesn't really say that. In fact, Mark's "definition" of Panentheism is actually closer to what Pantheism really is.
@Ridikai Second of all, how did I twist anything that he said? I was clarifying certain facts that he didn't seem to remember correctly, such as the definitions of certain terms or the origins of concepts and practices such as meditation, yoga, etc.
Third of all, after watching this video again, it's pretty apparent that Mark is scaring people to believe/disbelieve certain things rather than provide any sort of logic whether or not he is doing it intentionally. Seriously, all of these different belief systems are going to lead you to depression or suicide? They are all wrong because they don't sound nice and happy in the long run? Talk about ignorance and logical people.
@Ridikai Third of all, after watching this video again, it's pretty apparent that Mark is scaring people to believe/disbelieve certain things rather than provide any sort of logic whether or not he is doing it intentionally. Seriously, all of these different belief systems are going to lead you to depression or suicide? They are all wrong because they don't sound nice and happy in the long run? Talk about ignorance and logical people.
You can't do math without doing math. This means you can't have optimality without searching for it first. While you are searching, you will turn up a lot of unoptimal things. So, even the universe can't have what it wants all of the time because it has to search for it to find it. That is a mathematical law. This knucklehead has no math, or consistency or universality in his thought processes. He's a waste of your time.
This dope has an extremely limited and ridiculous viewpoint on reality. The reason poop stinks is because its not healthy for you. Flies love it. Reality has to be a complete and balanced process. It can't just cater to the values of one organism. Any God that is God knows this. This idiot on the video obviously has no concept of complete process.
Icky little maggots don't mind being maggots. Remember, God is universal. He/she/it powers all processes. The processes balance against each other as optimality is reached. Without maggots and bacteria, the earth would be piled high with stinking shit. And no trees could grow because all of the nutrients would be locked up in that shit. Why doesn't this knucklehead grow out of his anthropocentricity which is obviously making his thought processes dysfunctional.
@mgshightech Also, allow me to note that if no trees existed (for lack of the aforementioned nutrients) there would be little to no Oxygen, and thus no LIFE at all! Just because rotting corpses and poop make us feel disgusted doesn't mean they're "bad". Yes, we are scared of disease, because it's so closely related to Death, and we don't understand Death - and thus fear it. But Death is not evil. Death is necessary.
@mgshightech Once you understand that there is no cauldron of fire waiting for you on the other side of Death - and that the process itself is really just a return to the ALL that is "God" (for lack of a better, properly respectful term), you start to loose your fear of it, of dying. And you begin to have new respect for all that is around you, because the blindfold has been lifted, you are now free of dogma and prejudice - but most importantly, you're free of FEAR.
@mgshightech Pantheism (and sometimes Atheism as well, but not always) gives the individual the power to surpass ego-centrism and narcissism. No fear of Death means you have the courage to go out and do whatever you feel is right. And you judge "right" and "wrong" by observing the cause and effect of our actions (not the religious prejudice), so by that, you are capable of making better decisions - ones that create less pain, but ease the suffering and help the other. No judging, just helping.
There is little that is universal about human values. The idea that a cigarette butt is icky and therefore can't be God is just keying off of human instinct. It passes the test of appeal to emotion but fails the test of appeal to logic. Hint.. the best truthes deal with both emotion and logic. A cigarette butt is doing its job just like we, and if God shared most peoples values, then we would have a million world presidents. Obviously, human values don't equal Gods.
this fellow has really lousy arguments. Lets take for example if pantheism, then oh dear, good = evil = god . I guess he forgot that any two human beings have a hard time agreeing on just what things are good and evil. And it gets more complicated when you consider the values of the fly under the swatter. The universe is more universal than human values. It powers all real values, and the competition between values is a process of seeking balance. Anthropocentrism generates cognitive error.
I'll give him props for nailing the jest of it. i can see why people would fear it, but like most actions born out of fear; they are of the wrong path.
Also, every medication not administered unconsciously or via hospital administered I.V. is self medication. For one we have the choice of not following the doctors suggestions when it comes to prescribed medications, but even in prescribed medication there is an element of placebo, giving all medication an element of self-induced therapy.
@nightdeath4 you assume i don't know christians? i grew up Christian, a methodist baptist actually. my whole family is christian. and i changed my route. you really should think of all the possibilities before assuming things.
on another note, to say "Christianity is admitting to the fact that we need a God to live" is defining not just Christianity, but Catholicism, Judaism, and so many other religions. if you want to make a point about christianity, please be less vauge.
You see like every belief system or topic that seems interesting, sparking curiosity in our hearts sometimes we say "Why not give it a try"? Well thats what happened with me. Many people validate that there was a certain Jesus of Nazareth. That he was alive and he was crucified. Thats what I heard in History class one day. So interested in who this Jesus guy was I thought I'd get to know HIM better. Everyday I wake up, its a step closer to knowing him more.
WHAT A FUCKING WAY TO END IT. gigantic ignorant ass. i have been debating weather i would want to join an abrahamic sect with the absence of an anthropomorphic personal god because i like the middle eastern philosophy but then i would be associated with blatantly uneducated people who will smear anything different from their belief with their ad ridiculum opinions they pass as "facts" and demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge about the subject they talk about. Thank you
This person has not followed the logic of Pantheism / Panentheism to its logical conclusion : by accepting that ALL is God - that every speck of existence is an aspect of the Divine - we accept our true place in the universe as walking, breathing Gods, here to experience that of which we are made (creation) in order to learn and to grow - to live the life of God in myriad forms.
Right on Mark Driscoll! Very relevant for today, this whole Pantheism belief. God says there is divisions, divisions between right and wrong, truth and false-ness, left and right we will be divided, the wheat will be seperated from the chaff.
though I might add.. I don`t see how this belief will lead to killing yourself?..or to depression. I know a lot of atheists, pantheists and they aren`t depressed, suicidal. Everyone is capable of suicude Christian, jew, catholic, atheist, new age.
for a christian this guy did pretty good explaining pantheism. He flexed his mind pretty well to think how we think. Most people can not do that and he has earned my respect even if we disagree with religion.
Stop spreading your ignorance! You obviously do NOT know what Pantheism is! Pantheists do not actually believe in god! Yes, everything is one! Rape, murder, cancer are part of the universe, not god! God is used as a metaphorical term. You really dont understand what Pantheism is. As Christians die out, the world can begin again. This time without the fear of death. With respect and reverence for Nature. With LOVE. Not your bullshit religion that is fueled by HATE and FEAR!
@JacobLovesNina ...Jesus never taught hatred ...or fear. According to him, God will destroy this world ...again, for the very same reason he flooded it the first time. Pantheism....a counter religious view that has it's roots in psycho-active drugs...that go all the way back to Sumeria. The Romans were pantheists and hi-jacked Christianity with their ideas, it was exposed 500 years ago during the Protestant Reformation. The goal was to corrupt Christianity so people would turn from it.
@JacobLovesNina Really? Because of all the love I feel from this comment you really make me want to be a panthiest... that was sarcasm. Just so we're all on the same page.
@JacobLovesNina Wow, you want to have a world with peace, respect and without fear; yet you write a hateful comment. "Until all Christians die out" That's as bad as saying "until homosexuals or minorties die out".
Not all Christians are close-minded and bigoted as this pastor. There are Christians that tolerate different beliefs and are open-minded (way more than you). You're no any better than this idiot man by saying that comment. You're just the same as him, a prejudiced fool.
"Not your bull**** religion that is fuled by HATE and FEAR!" "As Christian's DIE OUT, the world can begin again." just a hunch but it doesn't really seem like you're filled with "LOVE" my friend, sounds like you're more filled with HATE.
@JacobLovesNina funny how the top two comments have different definitions for pantheism. If both hate and love are part of the universe, why favor one over the other? Why should one respect and not rape others?
Look who's talking. You claim that Driscoll is being ignorant, but then you claim Christianity is fueled by hate and fear. Christianity is fueled by the love of God.
Everything is summed up in these two: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind & strength" and "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Your problem is that you think telling people the truth is hateful. Know this: without truth there is no love. Jesus Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life.
Just wanted to comment and get your take on pantheism again, now I'm not a pantheist just want to see where you are coming from. The description you gave of pantheism is correct, but just because you don't like it to be that way, does not mean its not true, I saw you dismiss the idea, just because you "didn't like it" is that correct?
One seriously important detail that he does not understand is this: there is justice and time is the judge. If we fail to act, in this life, then we can expect no justice. There will be no effect to the future of our universe. However, find the strength to act today and there will be change tomorrow. It is the building upon of this that is critical to the future. This is the power of influence - as control is an illusion. Peace.
i refuse to walk blindly toward a physical "God" of which is uncertain to exists.
i love what i was given, and love what i will give to the earth when i die.
whenever that may be, i am not scared because i know my body will bring forth new life or at least new knowledge, whether i believe in a physical God or not.
@TheCrackerGram The thing with mankind and looking at our history is that we've been living primarily for ourselves and in hindsight what we could see in front of us. Christianity is admitting to the fact that we need a God to live. Christianity is a documentation, the part of history where a group of people actually said they saw a God and that he exists. The only thing I can say to you is this, expose yourself, get to know Christians (not just a group), it actually might be worth the time.
Lets worship jesus because the truth (that there is no god) offers no good news when we die... what a gay reason to praise jesus for? Because he offers paradise? Theres no proof or evidence for it but your accept it anyway because the alternative sounds too bad.
Yes, its quite difficult to reconcile the belief of a God and the lack of any moral codes in panentheism. But I think thats just people thinking they are significant. We are extremely small in the long view. How would one the solace of final judgment in the panentheist worldview?
Actually, pantheism leads to a better conception of justice. If everything is one, then hurting others hurts you. Karma is a much better judge then some cosmic Fuhrer.
@vaguelyhumanoid If everything is one, than if you were murdered... then that would be alright? Because under that logic, good and evil are the same thing, which concludes to "Nothing is wrong or right, it just is." In human mindset, we each believe that something is right and something is wrong... and would not lead to a better conception of justice, but a grand injustice to those who've been wronged.
@EPTechCompany You are displaying an ignorance of pantheist and pandeist conceptions of the universe. Everything being connected doesn't mean everything is identical. Also, divine command theory rejects justice, because under divine command theory, if God tells you to kill your family, it would be immoral not to.
@vaguelyhumanoid 1. Jesus wouldn't tell me that, and 2. I never said they were identical, there is just no comparison to the terms of right and wrong. A pantheist site informed me there's "no concept of sin and no Satan. So there is no fiery hell to worry about either. They have their own values and ethics and are responsible for their own actions." So I guess the best word that can replace identical, is "One".
@EPTechCompany There's a difference between "no concept of sin and no Satan" and "no right or wrong". I recommend you read up on actual, philosophical ethics. As for everything being one, that refers to everything being interconnected, not to everything being the same. Also, how do you know Jesus is God? You also don't understand that I'm giving a hypothetical scenario. If God directly, undeniably, and unambiguous told you that you had to kill your family, would you do it?
@vaguelyhumanoid The Bible tells me Jesus is Lord, so through that and my faith, that's how I know. Assume God does tell me to kill my family, then I would do it by divine command theory. However, God would not tell me to kill my family because that is not of God's character, so there is a contradiction. Because God commanding me to kill my family is false and not in the character of God, God would not tell me to kill my family.
@vaguelyhumanoid Also, it said "They have their own values and ethics", meaning that rape, murder, and SIN in general have no way of being determined whether they are right or wrong. Pantheism, Panentheism, and Paganism are just a flip of the coin, one side being right... the other wrong. Back in med-evil times, men would joust against each other to determine what was truth. The man who won was "obviously" telling the truth. In this ideal, there's no right and wrong but a decision made by fools.
@EPTechCompany I'm not against Jesus. Jesus was an interesting guy, and I respect how he challenged the authorities of the day in favor of a more just society. Also, I was a Christian for a while. Don't make snap judgments about someone you don't even know.
@vaguelyhumanoid Hey I read that you were a Christian for a while. The thing is just how you ask how our Bible is real, how do you know Karma itself is real? How do you know that it isn't just God working a little justice into each of our lives for the thing we did a couple of seconds or days ago(working behind the scenes)? I kind of understand where you're coming from and the thing about mankind is that we love accepting things at face value.
@vaguelyhumanoid When a group of intellectuals see things our way, or in our perspective then we'll be content with what we know and say ya what I know and believe is concrete and real now. The thing is the truth is the same and real everywhere, if God is the living God that people say exists then he would prove himself to be real. All I am really saying is this, expose yourself to whats out there not to the little you might know. That was the first step I took when I choose to become Christian.
@boxingaddict25 Quickest way to become an Atheist is to reject God. Religion will not save you! Jesus is the only being that can save us! Not religion!
...this guy is so ignorant lol.
LedOutMan 1 week ago
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If you could put all the stars in a cup, where would that cup be? So where is a "god" then? The Universe is the God! Just relax man!
deniro1a 1 week ago
Biggest dumbass ever.
dkurmanov 2 weeks ago
@dkurmanov I would be careful if I were you.. lol, wouldn't wanna be called a dumbass now would you? and YOU'RE NOT, so watch what you say cuz it's just logic not to call people names at the age of however old you and I are.
missylapian06 2 weeks ago
@missylapian06 Okay fair enough - however, I do not retract what I said because this man causes a lot of harm and doesn't understand what neither pantheism or panentheism are. As a panentheist, I guess I should know. And I've met Mark and he was quite rude about my being gay and having a different opinion than he- AND-for telling me I was going to Hell. So no thanks to Mark. But yes, I said harsh words and I'm sorry, but he's just..ugh. -.-
dkurmanov 2 weeks ago
@dkurmanov
The Christians are out busy making a difference in whatever big or small way they can, the homos sit here and cry against some man insulting them. As a Satanist I just sit back and laugh.
v01741r31 3 days ago
Electrons and photons make up everything, so yeah All is God. How we uses these instruments,these elements, are our choice. OUr perception is the line between good and evil. And since they are subjective neither can be validated. Getting people to look to the vanity, arrogance and ego of their own desires justifies nothing and helps no one.
8osiris 3 weeks ago
@8osiris God as a concept and nothing related to morals and human glorifying and that's the thing. The thing is most of the bad outweighs the good in humans, not just in human minds but the type of sentient enviroment we exist in.
Tetzukai 2 weeks ago
All that it is is replicating a DNA molecule through sadism, addiction, reproduction and consumption and nothing is really good out of a system like that since it has no concept of it. What the hell is so "beautiful, meaningful, purposeful" about that? There's so much horror associated with that as you see many times in nature? And it's not just living things.
Tetzukai 2 weeks ago
There's nothing benevolent as a God in this existence, but some if not many spiritualists, pantheists, and panentheists that I have seen think there's something more to be appriciated of when there rarely isn't - it's all nothing but an illusion of a psychology just to glorify our petty existence, another pervertion of what we really are as animals.
Tetzukai 2 weeks ago
The only thing that would mean something is sentience besides that, anything else is nothing regardless if there is nothing after death or such. And even sentience can be "corrupted" by negatives and it mostly is in humans based on themselves and what the enviroment induces.
Tetzukai 2 weeks ago
Even if humans have a bias towards negative and positive feelings and that there isn't likely a God or that life is meaningless in the end, I don't think it's invalid to say we can make a judgement and percieve what they are at it's fundamental or conceptual basis, especially in terms of sentience.
Tetzukai 2 weeks ago
Not with draconic labels like good and evil, even though they can be as real in terms of a judgement on pain and pleasure, but with labels of positive and negative and how it affects a sentient being of itself and to another sentient being. It's still real and even if we die it's still going to be there.
Tetzukai 2 weeks ago
Whether one believes a God doesn't exist or not, the very thing that stays and is fundamental to the development of religion is glorifying our petty existence or something else's in a stupid universe that doesn't need to exist, in a stupid, very delusional/illusional manner and regard it as something of artificial merit. And that's a joke. This is coming from an atheist.
Tetzukai 2 weeks ago
@Tetzukai First line: huh? Glorifying? The seven deadly sins at its best. The precurser to war. Never mind that warring in heaven requires hate and thus denying the whole concept of what your gods stands for. Never mind we as a people take gods name in vain everyday. nothing to do with saying Goddamn. But the fact that the name of God, the breath of God, is written on all things. Ether, electron and Photon. But your confort is worth every thing you destroy and call holy. I know vain, and one
8osiris 2 weeks ago
@8osiris My God? I don't believe in one, I have no reason to even in an agnostic perspective. I'm just accepting what reality is through a sentient mind. It's mostly a crude, brutal existence of rarely no relief of positives and it's all at the purpose of replicating a DNA molecule - a mechine in terms of life. I should had proof read that.
Tetzukai 2 weeks ago
What I mean is no one can't glorifying nature with theistic beliefs, especially if those theistic beliefs are related strongly on conforting emotions that are irrational and the carnage from human emotions are obvious because of the horrible mechanics of life. Humans generally glorify their pain through theistic means, and it's ridiculous.
Tetzukai 2 weeks ago
That's not what God is if you're talking about benevolence, which even in the bible contradicts thats. We don't even know that a creator exists or not. Besides that, it's just an archaic metaphor which science doesn't need to describe life and it's origins as we know of now and that that kind of god apprently doesn't exist, so we're somewhat stuck with the agnostic perspective.
Tetzukai 2 weeks ago
2:49 The holocaust... soooooo. Nazis went to hell because they were wrong and evil. So did the Jews because they didn't believe in Christ? Wheres the justice in that? Oh right sorry. I thought we were talkin logic. He makes sense now. hehehe
TheTylerwalkermusic 3 weeks ago
To a pantheist or any intelligent person, Pastor Mark Driscoll is like most clerics, he's merely a con man who HAS to try and disconnect people from God so that he can then "Bring them back to God'" and thus exploit the spiritually ignorant to make a living. Because if he really thought about what he's saying here. he would see that he sounds like a simple street hustler and nothing else. To most Pantheist (As well as atheists and others), he's merely another clown, peddling a lie
coyoteself 3 weeks ago
I feel he is really condescending on this topic. I don't think my notebook is God, or that my cell phone is God. I feel that the universe and natural world is my higher being, or "God." It comes down to respecting the world and universe, and the creatures within it.
FrauStormm 3 weeks ago
good an evil dont exist. Whats good to others, is evil to others. all there is, is respect, or a lack of respect. I say the christian bible has alot of evil in it. especially the Old testament. Why doesnt god heal amputees? hell, suicide isnt even a sin. the church declared it a sin in 364 AD so their followers wouldnt die, and they could pay them more taxes
WorldMilitia 4 weeks ago
@WorldMilitia But positive and negative emotions and how the affect the world exist and have real consequnces based on a merit, intention or unreasonable behaviour and we can make a judgement on it based on what sentience typically is. We all have it, regardless of bias and that we fundamentally would feel and know what pleasure and pain is.
Tetzukai 2 weeks ago
he doesnt understand pantheism. He took it way too far. hell, the christian god gives people cancer a part of his plan....then we go against it by trying to cure it
WorldMilitia 4 weeks ago
@WorldMilitia or they ask people to pray for them. Which if it's according to God plan for someone to have cancer, then wouldn't it be a sacrilege to ask God to change his mind? Gotta love Christian hypocrisy
coyoteself 3 weeks ago
Depression, self-mediaction and suicide are also part of the lives of those who believe in "God and the Devil" and in justice at the end..... When approaching spirituality and divinity one must be careful not to generalize, stereotype or attack/judge. We all hold a piece of the big puzzle, the key is to listen to each other. Please remember that things that seem not to make sense at a certain point in time will make sense later :-)
sharonpanda 1 month ago
This dude's approach is mad unsophisticated.
RyanMatthias 1 month ago
Completely dumb video.
acidstars9 1 month ago
The Pastor is just like I was as a Christian: sure of the Bible, sure of his understanding of other religions, and loud. I am an Aletheist, a seeker of the Truth, and that is why I no longer follow the "God" of the Bible. Problem for this fellow is, I do not fit into any of his 5 categories. Now I see the Bible is an old book put together by politically-oriented churchmen in the 3rd century. There is no reason to believe it is the word of any God, any more than the Qur'an.
JohnFreethinker 1 month ago
Mark Driscoll on panentheism: “You have no hope of a final judgment in the end. If they got away with it, tough.” Evangelical Christianity doesn’t provide any hope for justice, and generates grave injustices. Killer Ted Bundy accepted the vicarious death of Jesus for the forgiveness of his sins hours before his execution. He's therefore forgiven and in heaven. If any one of his victims had failed to do the same, she’s unforgiven and in hell no matter how moral and giving she was.
Cathmoytura 1 month ago
what a superficial turd...waste of time. it always comes back to the fact that christians gloat in that they are going to be "rewarded" and others punished, for doing nothing. or wasting everyones time with triviality. ..and patting each others back. since it first started and to this very day. wheres the poetry, wheres the deeper meaning?
frilansspion 2 months ago
The problem about the Christian God is that this god fore-saw the fall of the angels and the fall of man and allllllllllll the pain that will come after. Yet he still decided to make it and let billions of people suffer through something Adam and Eve did.
I ask any who does not believe in Panetheism because they believe that God is separate from evil; " HOW CAN A PERFECT NON EVIL CREATOR (GOD) CREATE SOMETHING THAT IS CAPABLE OF BECOMING EVIL (SATAN).
ctsfinestjon 2 months ago
I must say that Panetheism sounds must more realistic than the other views. The only argument against it is that there is no justice. Basicly fear the reason why people can't believe it. Instead the say that "This loving God is allowing all these things to happen for a reason buy he'll come soon and end it all". However, there are facts that cannot be denied.
You reap what u sow
The spirits of people cry out and has tremendous effects.
The spirit of God is powerful.We all have it
ctsfinestjon 2 months ago
@ctsfinestjon If you're looking for justice on a spiritual level, which pantheism doesn't address, then look at karma where we do indeed "Reap what u sow." Also think of the spirit of God and the spirit of people as one single SPIRIT, not separate from one another as we're constantly taught by most religions today. Imagine the power that we as a species would (Do) have. Imagine what would happen to most of those religions once we all understood that, poof...GONE.
Namaste'
coyoteself 2 months ago
@coyoteself Amen, i totally agree with that statement. I am still looking into this stuff. I just came out of Christianity and im searching for truth. I am starting to believe that Our spirits and Gods spirit are ONE!! I believe Karma as well. I just dont know where to turn to know !!! I need to be taught truth and i feel religion is the first place to stay away from
ctsfinestjon 2 months ago
@ctsfinestjon I know what you mean. I'm a Recovering Christian, who saw all the incongruities of the Bible 40 years ago and began my search for the "Truth" when I was in my early teens. Since then, it's been a very enlightening path and over those years I learned that the Truth is a lot like an incredible diamond that no one can tell you about . But instead should be seen from as many different perspectives as possible to be appreciated.
coyoteself 2 months ago
@ctsfinestjon My search lead me to look at Greek & American Indian philosophies, paganism (Not the Occult) Taoism & finally Zen Buddhism. All of them gave me a hint to how spirituality & science can actually coexist comfortably. But for that to happen, I first had to let go of the ancient concepts of a Divine Deity. Once I did that, it was like a light went on and it all made sense, even Jesus, but not the Jesus of the Bible.
coyoteself 2 months ago
@ctsfinestjon ohhh and good luck : )
coyoteself 2 months ago
Pantheism is nothing more than respect, love and wonder towards the Universe and everything that is part of it(including humans). I don't know where you got those ideas from. But I must remind you that, love, spirituality, respect and all other feelings and qualities are part of our humanity. Not part of a religion or heaven sent, we learned the hard way if you look at our history.
ipilincoln1515 2 months ago
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ipilincoln1515 2 months ago
you butchered this idea..
ShockyPillar19 2 months ago
@TheSelfaware So you're saying the raping of a child is only "culturally evil"? So if YOU were raped then what do you have to say? "Its only relative so it doesn't matter that my humanity was taken from me. If I think its wrong its only my opinion. I'll just have to get on with my life while being emotionally disturbed." So being tortured against your will is not "wrong" its just "different"? And how does that make the world a better place or make life any easier?
Diachi26 2 months ago
Here is what God actually is to a pantheist: God is a synonym the universe and universe is a synonym for god. God isn't actually a being but rather an idea. This idea that something divine is out there. Out there meaning the universe. When a pantheist uses the word divine he means it as something that is amazing. Something that is beautiful. When you look up at a starry night we would say that that is divine, but only in a sense that it is amazing.
KDubVideos 3 months ago
I think I have finally figured out why a lot of Christians annoy me so much. It is like a toddler with low self-confidence/esteem that constantly crys and wants to be spoon-fed and wants mommy and daddy to take care of them. Couple this with an unnatural desire to be with mommy and daddy and think that everyone else's mommies and daddies suck. "Oh no mommy i stubbed my toe and I have no idea how to make it better, please come and blow it a kiss"
Master0fPuppets231 3 months ago
lHe doesnt understand pantheism, if you feel god in all living things you do not need to build a temple or a church and tell people to come to your masonary structure with superior accustics to get you point across -- Authorative and dominant ideologies will be defeated and the truth (not the corrupted truth) will set our spirituality free
Tygabone 3 months ago 14
I get so excited when I hear people discussing the big questions of existence and God, the highest topics of philosophy. And then get very disappointed when I realize they are just dogmatic evangelizers who have formed an immovable opinion before they have even begun to seriously examine the issues.
newmancbn 3 months ago
It's so frustrating to see religious scholars, like this man, not fully exploring these issues with the depth and seriousness they deserve. The questions regarding the existence of God used to be looked at with the utmost seriousness and sincerity by the greatest living philosophers. Today the biggest questions humans can ask are left to hack religious teachers who don't give the topics the attention they deserve. Soooo sad.
newmancbn 3 months ago
This is a poor explanation of pantheism and panentheism. The distinction he made between the two is that pantheism views everything as God, and panentheism is in everything. This is not correct. Pantheism views the universe and God as two terms for the same thing. God does not exist outside of the universe, the universe does not exist outside of God. Panentheism suggests that the universe exists as a manifestation of God, but God exists INDEPENDENTLY from the universe.
newmancbn 3 months ago
Yessir, good and evil are shades of gray, there is no genocidal maniac coming to punish the bullys who take your lunch money, cancer and cigarette butts are equal to you on the universal level. Sorry about the blow to your ego. Take some therapy?
LiveInTheTao 3 months ago
@LiveInTheTao
he could as well have said "there's no comfort for me in pan(en)theism. i can't handle this, it makes me cry" what a pathetic simpleton.
Ensiferu 3 months ago
Jesus wasn't even real
MrCartoonguy 3 months ago 2
@MrCartoonguy I just want to say that there are records in history that prove Jesus existed... It's in the Bible and if you say the bible isn't true, there are record in history that the people who wrote the bible really did exist. If you're not sure look it up. Please.
missylapian06 2 weeks ago
what a buttface
TheOldBeef 3 months ago
Well, if he can say my Panentheistic views are lies I can say his Christian view are lies. I can also proudly say that my faith and fellow Panentheists haven't brutally murdered millions of people over the years.
The religion he preaches against is exactly what he is selling but with a shiny cover.
MrCartoonguy 3 months ago
Research for this sermon included:
Wikipedia,
... that is all.
PoisonedOath 4 months ago
You can't appeal to anyone? Can people not talk to each other? Do you go to God for news on the weather or the weather man? This guy is giving multiple narrow views and making people think that suicide is at the end of anything but Christianity. This guy is a sick fuck who only wants your money.
deistforever2001 4 months ago
Christian Justice:
Even if you're a good person, if you do no accept Jesus, you will burn forever in hell.
Even if you're a bad person, if you do accept Jesus, you will live forever in heaven.
Evil can't exist without God's approval, making him ultimately responsible for all evil.
politicsthatmatter 4 months ago 2
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zelda0521 4 months ago
@politicsthatmatter
WRONG!!
Christian Justice: If you're an innocent person, you go to heaven If you're a guilty person, Jesus can cover for you or you can go to hell.
God allows evil to exists but does not approve of it.
God created free thinking minds so he's not responsible for what the minds choose to do.
zelda0521 4 months ago
ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
TWITfromURANUS 4 months ago
all of you whom are offended at his message and accuse him of ignorance and bigotry, by your condemnation you're doing exaclty what Jesus said would happen. proving yet again that the gospel is truth
praise god ^.^
mhouk2 4 months ago
@mhouk2
Amen.
Besides, if everything is one, as they say, and it's all the same, they don't have the right to get angry. :)
Jerkwad152 4 months ago
lol pretty pathetic this guy needs a system with a "judge". looks like he never left the public school, "teacher may i speak?" type mentality
alistairproductions 5 months ago
Modern science has came across a fascinating discovery of the membrane, based upon M Theory. That everything conceivable, yourself, water, the cigarette you just threw away and even the cancer cells you get are all made of an interconnected existence called the membrane. People have various opinions of what's good and what's evil, it's not uniformed worldwide. However, as we experience our own lives we often a blinded by the individualistic self perseverance and materialistic embrace.
VerseInfinitum 5 months ago
this guy is so full of shit lol
RBatteate 5 months ago
Justice then? What happened to forgiveness? If this particular God were really so forgiving, he would forgive those who don't even ask to be forgiven, and there would be no judgement. With true forgiveness, there is no judgement.
TranscendCircle 5 months ago
What an awful man. He has no right to judge other views of life that he himself has not experienced. I'm not a pantheist and such, but I do think the idea is rather interesting, and simply another fine and innocent way of seeing the world.
Xreaper2070 5 months ago
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saltersego 5 months ago
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saltersego 5 months ago
This is ....Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin......This is Albert Einstein...This is you ...me ...and the cigarette...
We are spiritual beings having a human experience, not human beings having a spiritual experience -Chardin
saltersego 5 months ago
You're all trolling because you're afraid to admit Mark's right.
Jerkwad152 5 months ago
good job making straw men of other worldviews. To be fair, monotheism is only the hope of a fearful immature person that somewhere in the sky is a big caring daddy, surfing in the clouds somewhere. Duality is for simpletons. Evolve and transcend, then see g0d was all pretend.
SilenceTheMachine 6 months ago
Mark Driscoll is a douchebag puppet of idiot demons.
SilenceTheMachine 6 months ago
are you serious? really people come to listen what that man talk about?
good and evil ARE different sides of the same coin! you should get it too.
to Pantheists,we do justice. we are able to do laws and live in harmony,God has nothing to do about justice.
where do you see justice in what christians have done to non-christian people through the centuries?
there is no oppression or suicide in pantheist life,we live in harmony with the All,not believing in a sort of unsure-nowhere living-God...
Elessidil91 6 months ago
They put chemicals inside cigerrates, tard. Pantheism is the belief that all that is natural and living is apart of God. It is more of a philosophy. All things unnatural have caused the diseases and malfunctions in the human body and it's escalating every day. Seeing the Circle of Life as a energy of God is waaay much more believable than a sky daddy or someone i've never met in my life. Have you met your God? I have.
captivesparrow 6 months ago
misunderstanding ;(
TheVis18 6 months ago
this is too god damn funny.
little666wing 6 months ago
Panentheism is compatible with Christianity.
"In Him we live and move and have our being."
Bishop Berkeley's -a Catholic Christian- view was a kind of Christian Panentheism.
As for the issue with evil. This is a misunderstanding of the nature of evil. Evil is not a part of God because evil is like a "hole" so to speak. Whenever evil manifests it is not a thing in itself but an absence of Good/God.
JohananRaatz 6 months ago
Before and after the Gospel of John 10:31, and in 1 Corinthians 6 this issue is discussed in detail without using the misleading, arbitrary modern definitions of the terms atheism, deism, pantheism/panentheism, theism, christianity. Even the word "christianity" is a modern word with modern definitions, none of which agree with each other. God explained after I got a poor man to pray for understanding for me: "You are not your own" (1 Corinthians 6:19).
1emanres 6 months ago
i dont know about you guys...but im gonna get me a pack of camels...get down on my knees ...and pray!lmao
arkee71 6 months ago
I would much rather believe that god in in everything, or everything is god, than to believe in bipolar, sociopath which the Bible calls "God." Seriously, think about it. If that god were a human, he would be serving several life sentences in prison for all the atrocities he has committed against his very own children, Besides Pantheism/Panentheism shows how even we are a part of god, and not separate from god like most Theistic/Deistic religions would have us believe
coyoteself 7 months ago
We're not saying that the mosquito or potato chip or your ugly necklace is god. That is plain shallow, and pantheism is definitely not shallow. You need to do more research and reading on this. On people like Osho and Alan Watts. We believe that we are all children of the universe. That divinity lies within the depths of the cosmos. It's a unity of ying and yang, because everything cannot exist without nothing, and vice versa. "Heaven and I were created together, and all things and I are one."
xxxscenes 7 months ago
@xxxscenes pantheism does not state that "nothing" exists...we believe that everything is all there is...the concept of "nothing"...is more a concept of religion.."ex nihilo"...nothing does not exist...something is all there is to a pantheist..."nothing" is venturing into the supernatural...which most pantheists have no belief in
arkee71 6 months ago
God is all. The guy preaching this is a complete moron. I would love to own him in debate.
captivesparrow 7 months ago
Without the contrast of positive and negative that's pre-built into this universe, neither the performer in the video or anyone else would have been able to discern one action from another. We would not have even recognized light from dark. I do believe the over-all universe is on a path of positive direction but we still had to see and know that contrast to even have or make a map. Negative actions get negative reactions and vice versa. So the idea of Pantheism and Panentheism is logical.
lllwindrunner 7 months ago
If you get cancer from smoking its your own fault. Pantheism offers a lot of hope, in Pantheism you are immortal. Your matter, will always exist. It will constantly be recycled into new things. I understand how you could interpret Pantheism this way but I assure you that death is just as natural as birth, and that you are without a doubt immortal. Go Pantheism and Panentheism!
BrianPSTJ 7 months ago
God bless you MarK!! and Good PLease help those who clearly are uncapable of understanding your devine power. Open their eyes!
bloodsoldier 7 months ago
this is rediculous... has he even studied pantheism??? what a prick...
TheCurriefamily09 7 months ago
This is with respect: BULLSHIT!
Alexsuper15 7 months ago
This clown proves that a preacher is a beggar, self-appointed as dignified & informed. Pass the plate!
SIMKINETICS 7 months ago
By giving "it" human traits and assuming that "it" is limited, by saying that they know what "it" wants and likes... these Christian morons are bringing a huge insult to GOD. And all for the sake of carrying on living in their little bubble of false security and complete denial of responsibility. Fear and cowardice, that is what I see in this man and that is what I see in all religious folk. Snap out of it, people, and learn to deal with the reality around you.
CaramidaCaramizie 8 months ago
Yes, Mr. ChristianDude, you understand it all perfectly: there is no "justice" in the sense that you wish for. There is no place made of puffy clouds waiting for you after you die. There is no man up in the sky giving directives and frowning on your actions. There is no "good" and "evil" in the World and if you paid any attention to the cycles of life and death in Nature, you'd see that death and disease are also necessary to entertain LIFE. To say that God cannot be those things is an insult
CaramidaCaramizie 8 months ago 5
I agree with MariusDemocratius: this guy understands Pantheism but is too afraid to accept it. Instead of seeing the beauty and the freedom than Pantheism brings, he reacts like a small child on his first day of school: cried out for mummy and daddy, who are already far off on their way to work. Instead of playing with the other kids and enjoying his time there, all the new toys and games, he's afraid of this new situation where he's starting to become responsible for his own deeds.
CaramidaCaramizie 8 months ago
If there is anything that is not God, then God is limited. If God is necessarily unlimited then there would, in this case, have to be a still greater God that contains the first and all the things which are not God.
biffin62 8 months ago
"where's the justice?"
well there is no absolute justice and there is no one you can blame for bad things, misfortune, your inferiority complex or your ignorant incompetence. get over it and start taking responsibility.
btw. kudos to the many intelligent and thoughtful comments, quite rare to see in a discussion about religion.
Ensiferu 8 months ago
Wow. I'm sick of "cool" preachers. These douchebags just talk and talk about shit that they don't even know about. He obviously didn't do any kind of research on pantheism. If he did e probably just read the thesis statement at the start of the wiki page or just left out the parts he didn't like.
madamatv 8 months ago
Panenthiesm: Use The Force, Luke.
That should put it in perspective. :3
Jerkwad152 8 months ago
Pantheists do not worship creation, or any created thing. The Universe was not created, & it is not a thing.
NeoPsiTom 8 months ago
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ItsAllChaos 8 months ago
In their minds, its alright to go around enslaving and killing organsims they view as being "lesser" or "submissive" like cattle and poultry and others, as long as its not their own two hands doing the dirty work. And how convenient, isn't it... that Jehovah would set us up in a place of power and dominion. Aren't we lucky? What a coincidence for us to be God's chosen species. Its a good thing we have such strong imaginations, otherwise we might be as mundane as the beasts, eh?
Devidedistand 8 months ago
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ItsAllChaos 8 months ago
Being eaten may be wrong in the eyes of a gazelle, but starvation is wrong in the eyes of a lion. Humans are no different. If it comes down to it, you kill or starve. Christians like to eat God's tasty animals, but they don't like to envision the slaughter of each cow or the grinding of flesh through a thresher.
Devidedistand 8 months ago
More importantly, christianity assumes there is only one divine Judge. But pantheism teaches there are trillions upon trillions of judges, every sentient organsim that has ever achieved consciousness in a physical body. And what if they disagree? Well, how do we resolve it? Force. Strength. Speed. Intelligence. Dexterity. Be the best at the competition for life that you take part in. Its your life or mine, pal. That's how every single species in the world solves problems.
Devidedistand 8 months ago
This may not apply to all pantheists, but as far as I am concerned I determine right and wrong by whether or not harm is being brought upon any piece of the universe that is capable of feeling, like most animals for example, and whether there is any benefit to such a harmful action. Once an organism is dead it feels no pain. But while it is alive, pain is an indicator of right and wrong.
Devidedistand 8 months ago
@Devidedistand You put it very nicely. :)
CaramidaCaramizie 8 months ago
Ive always said, if there truly is a Christian God then he sure as hell picked some real fruit cakes to spread his will. I sure hope this guy makes some more videos, I could use a laugh.
DogWed 9 months ago
He failed to define these terms properly.
Pantheism: God is in everything
Panentheism: Everything is in God, is a part of God
Good and evil are just words tied to ideas that are developed by humans. There is no objectivity to them.
Meditation, yoga, consciousness spirituality, et cetera are really Eastern ideas originating from Eastern spirituality.
p4gs 9 months ago 13
@p4gs You twisted what he said, and you make absolotely no sense. I cant beleive you actually got thumbs up for that. Shows how much ignorant and "logical people " there are in the world. Such a dang pity.
Ridikai 4 months ago
@Ridikai First of all, I'm not sure what I was doing when I posted that since it seems pretty sloppy. For instance, the definition of pantheism that I provided is off a bit. Pantheism: God is everything (in a holistic sense). Mark tries to say that parts of everything, such as a human's cancer cells/tumor or a cigarette butt, is God Himself; however, Pantheism doesn't really say that. In fact, Mark's "definition" of Panentheism is actually closer to what Pantheism really is.
p4gs 4 months ago
@Ridikai Second of all, how did I twist anything that he said? I was clarifying certain facts that he didn't seem to remember correctly, such as the definitions of certain terms or the origins of concepts and practices such as meditation, yoga, etc.
p4gs 4 months ago
Third of all, after watching this video again, it's pretty apparent that Mark is scaring people to believe/disbelieve certain things rather than provide any sort of logic whether or not he is doing it intentionally. Seriously, all of these different belief systems are going to lead you to depression or suicide? They are all wrong because they don't sound nice and happy in the long run? Talk about ignorance and logical people.
p4gs 4 months ago
@Ridikai Third of all, after watching this video again, it's pretty apparent that Mark is scaring people to believe/disbelieve certain things rather than provide any sort of logic whether or not he is doing it intentionally. Seriously, all of these different belief systems are going to lead you to depression or suicide? They are all wrong because they don't sound nice and happy in the long run? Talk about ignorance and logical people.
p4gs 4 months ago
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ItsAllChaos 9 months ago
You can't do math without doing math. This means you can't have optimality without searching for it first. While you are searching, you will turn up a lot of unoptimal things. So, even the universe can't have what it wants all of the time because it has to search for it to find it. That is a mathematical law. This knucklehead has no math, or consistency or universality in his thought processes. He's a waste of your time.
mgshightech 9 months ago
This dope has an extremely limited and ridiculous viewpoint on reality. The reason poop stinks is because its not healthy for you. Flies love it. Reality has to be a complete and balanced process. It can't just cater to the values of one organism. Any God that is God knows this. This idiot on the video obviously has no concept of complete process.
mgshightech 9 months ago
Icky little maggots don't mind being maggots. Remember, God is universal. He/she/it powers all processes. The processes balance against each other as optimality is reached. Without maggots and bacteria, the earth would be piled high with stinking shit. And no trees could grow because all of the nutrients would be locked up in that shit. Why doesn't this knucklehead grow out of his anthropocentricity which is obviously making his thought processes dysfunctional.
mgshightech 9 months ago
@mgshightech Also, allow me to note that if no trees existed (for lack of the aforementioned nutrients) there would be little to no Oxygen, and thus no LIFE at all! Just because rotting corpses and poop make us feel disgusted doesn't mean they're "bad". Yes, we are scared of disease, because it's so closely related to Death, and we don't understand Death - and thus fear it. But Death is not evil. Death is necessary.
CaramidaCaramizie 8 months ago
@mgshightech Once you understand that there is no cauldron of fire waiting for you on the other side of Death - and that the process itself is really just a return to the ALL that is "God" (for lack of a better, properly respectful term), you start to loose your fear of it, of dying. And you begin to have new respect for all that is around you, because the blindfold has been lifted, you are now free of dogma and prejudice - but most importantly, you're free of FEAR.
CaramidaCaramizie 8 months ago
@mgshightech Pantheism (and sometimes Atheism as well, but not always) gives the individual the power to surpass ego-centrism and narcissism. No fear of Death means you have the courage to go out and do whatever you feel is right. And you judge "right" and "wrong" by observing the cause and effect of our actions (not the religious prejudice), so by that, you are capable of making better decisions - ones that create less pain, but ease the suffering and help the other. No judging, just helping.
CaramidaCaramizie 8 months ago
There is little that is universal about human values. The idea that a cigarette butt is icky and therefore can't be God is just keying off of human instinct. It passes the test of appeal to emotion but fails the test of appeal to logic. Hint.. the best truthes deal with both emotion and logic. A cigarette butt is doing its job just like we, and if God shared most peoples values, then we would have a million world presidents. Obviously, human values don't equal Gods.
mgshightech 9 months ago
this fellow has really lousy arguments. Lets take for example if pantheism, then oh dear, good = evil = god . I guess he forgot that any two human beings have a hard time agreeing on just what things are good and evil. And it gets more complicated when you consider the values of the fly under the swatter. The universe is more universal than human values. It powers all real values, and the competition between values is a process of seeking balance. Anthropocentrism generates cognitive error.
mgshightech 9 months ago
I'll give him props for nailing the jest of it. i can see why people would fear it, but like most actions born out of fear; they are of the wrong path.
AromaticDogwood 9 months ago
Also, every medication not administered unconsciously or via hospital administered I.V. is self medication. For one we have the choice of not following the doctors suggestions when it comes to prescribed medications, but even in prescribed medication there is an element of placebo, giving all medication an element of self-induced therapy.
ZacksEnder 10 months ago
@nightdeath4 you assume i don't know christians? i grew up Christian, a methodist baptist actually. my whole family is christian. and i changed my route. you really should think of all the possibilities before assuming things.
on another note, to say "Christianity is admitting to the fact that we need a God to live" is defining not just Christianity, but Catholicism, Judaism, and so many other religions. if you want to make a point about christianity, please be less vauge.
TheCrackerGram 10 months ago
You see like every belief system or topic that seems interesting, sparking curiosity in our hearts sometimes we say "Why not give it a try"? Well thats what happened with me. Many people validate that there was a certain Jesus of Nazareth. That he was alive and he was crucified. Thats what I heard in History class one day. So interested in who this Jesus guy was I thought I'd get to know HIM better. Everyday I wake up, its a step closer to knowing him more.
nightdeath4 10 months ago
WHAT A FUCKING WAY TO END IT. gigantic ignorant ass. i have been debating weather i would want to join an abrahamic sect with the absence of an anthropomorphic personal god because i like the middle eastern philosophy but then i would be associated with blatantly uneducated people who will smear anything different from their belief with their ad ridiculum opinions they pass as "facts" and demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge about the subject they talk about. Thank you
dudeonthasopha 10 months ago
This person has not followed the logic of Pantheism / Panentheism to its logical conclusion : by accepting that ALL is God - that every speck of existence is an aspect of the Divine - we accept our true place in the universe as walking, breathing Gods, here to experience that of which we are made (creation) in order to learn and to grow - to live the life of God in myriad forms.
FreedomJunkie 10 months ago
doesn`t mean they will put an end to their own life in the end. False assumption Mark on your part. Other then that, good sermon.
MistyLove7 10 months ago
Right on Mark Driscoll! Very relevant for today, this whole Pantheism belief. God says there is divisions, divisions between right and wrong, truth and false-ness, left and right we will be divided, the wheat will be seperated from the chaff.
though I might add.. I don`t see how this belief will lead to killing yourself?..or to depression. I know a lot of atheists, pantheists and they aren`t depressed, suicidal. Everyone is capable of suicude Christian, jew, catholic, atheist, new age.
MistyLove7 10 months ago
for a christian this guy did pretty good explaining pantheism. He flexed his mind pretty well to think how we think. Most people can not do that and he has earned my respect even if we disagree with religion.
TheRedWolf080 11 months ago
Stop spreading your ignorance! You obviously do NOT know what Pantheism is! Pantheists do not actually believe in god! Yes, everything is one! Rape, murder, cancer are part of the universe, not god! God is used as a metaphorical term. You really dont understand what Pantheism is. As Christians die out, the world can begin again. This time without the fear of death. With respect and reverence for Nature. With LOVE. Not your bullshit religion that is fueled by HATE and FEAR!
JacobLovesNina 11 months ago 14
@JacobLovesNina ...Jesus never taught hatred ...or fear. According to him, God will destroy this world ...again, for the very same reason he flooded it the first time. Pantheism....a counter religious view that has it's roots in psycho-active drugs...that go all the way back to Sumeria. The Romans were pantheists and hi-jacked Christianity with their ideas, it was exposed 500 years ago during the Protestant Reformation. The goal was to corrupt Christianity so people would turn from it.
vachief 10 months ago
@JacobLovesNina I appreciate your Pantheist views. We really do need more people like you in this world..
imnotgivingmynametou 10 months ago
@JacobLovesNina Ironical. What a hate-fueled comment.
DrZpankz 7 months ago
@JacobLovesNina Really? Because of all the love I feel from this comment you really make me want to be a panthiest... that was sarcasm. Just so we're all on the same page.
taylordrake4 7 months ago 5
@taylordrake4 that was a fair and unbiased explanation of pantheism.
This was also sarcasm.
BggProductions 3 months ago
@JacobLovesNina you're awesome
little666wing 6 months ago
@JacobLovesNina Wow, you want to have a world with peace, respect and without fear; yet you write a hateful comment. "Until all Christians die out" That's as bad as saying "until homosexuals or minorties die out".
Not all Christians are close-minded and bigoted as this pastor. There are Christians that tolerate different beliefs and are open-minded (way more than you). You're no any better than this idiot man by saying that comment. You're just the same as him, a prejudiced fool.
Antiquenette 5 months ago
"Not your bull**** religion that is fuled by HATE and FEAR!" "As Christian's DIE OUT, the world can begin again." just a hunch but it doesn't really seem like you're filled with "LOVE" my friend, sounds like you're more filled with HATE.
budmanguy 5 months ago
@budmanguy They are probably speaking from a hatred of the amounting ignorance of how some people sees pantheism as. And I don't blame them.
Graymoths 4 months ago
@JacobLovesNina funny how the top two comments have different definitions for pantheism. If both hate and love are part of the universe, why favor one over the other? Why should one respect and not rape others?
zelda0521 4 months ago
@JacobLovesNina
Look who's talking. You claim that Driscoll is being ignorant, but then you claim Christianity is fueled by hate and fear. Christianity is fueled by the love of God.
Everything is summed up in these two: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind & strength" and "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Your problem is that you think telling people the truth is hateful. Know this: without truth there is no love. Jesus Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life.
JuzziBurnsRed 4 months ago
This guy's constant condescending tone is really annoying.
AgowTisro 11 months ago 2
Just wanted to comment and get your take on pantheism again, now I'm not a pantheist just want to see where you are coming from. The description you gave of pantheism is correct, but just because you don't like it to be that way, does not mean its not true, I saw you dismiss the idea, just because you "didn't like it" is that correct?
vanityvideo 11 months ago
One seriously important detail that he does not understand is this: there is justice and time is the judge. If we fail to act, in this life, then we can expect no justice. There will be no effect to the future of our universe. However, find the strength to act today and there will be change tomorrow. It is the building upon of this that is critical to the future. This is the power of influence - as control is an illusion. Peace.
MercuryReliance 11 months ago
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bringonthewrath 11 months ago
This guy doesn't understand Pantheism. He gets it wrong in under 60 seconds.
SaganAppreciationSoc 1 year ago
and what you just said was "here's the problem with it- it has no HOPE"
Christianity is hopeful, but they scare it into you first.
TheCrackerGram 1 year ago
i refuse to walk blindly toward a physical "God" of which is uncertain to exists.
i love what i was given, and love what i will give to the earth when i die.
whenever that may be, i am not scared because i know my body will bring forth new life or at least new knowledge, whether i believe in a physical God or not.
TheCrackerGram 1 year ago
@TheCrackerGram The thing with mankind and looking at our history is that we've been living primarily for ourselves and in hindsight what we could see in front of us. Christianity is admitting to the fact that we need a God to live. Christianity is a documentation, the part of history where a group of people actually said they saw a God and that he exists. The only thing I can say to you is this, expose yourself, get to know Christians (not just a group), it actually might be worth the time.
nightdeath4 10 months ago
Lets worship jesus because the truth (that there is no god) offers no good news when we die... what a gay reason to praise jesus for? Because he offers paradise? Theres no proof or evidence for it but your accept it anyway because the alternative sounds too bad.
Sevenfold120 1 year ago
Yes, its quite difficult to reconcile the belief of a God and the lack of any moral codes in panentheism. But I think thats just people thinking they are significant. We are extremely small in the long view. How would one the solace of final judgment in the panentheist worldview?
Vegemighty 1 year ago
God, what an idiot.
In pantheism, the universe makes no distinction beetween positive and negative actions.
NewDimacartoons 1 year ago
Actually, pantheism leads to a better conception of justice. If everything is one, then hurting others hurts you. Karma is a much better judge then some cosmic Fuhrer.
vaguelyhumanoid 1 year ago
@vaguelyhumanoid If everything is one, than if you were murdered... then that would be alright? Because under that logic, good and evil are the same thing, which concludes to "Nothing is wrong or right, it just is." In human mindset, we each believe that something is right and something is wrong... and would not lead to a better conception of justice, but a grand injustice to those who've been wronged.
EPTechCompany 1 year ago
@EPTechCompany You are displaying an ignorance of pantheist and pandeist conceptions of the universe. Everything being connected doesn't mean everything is identical. Also, divine command theory rejects justice, because under divine command theory, if God tells you to kill your family, it would be immoral not to.
vaguelyhumanoid 1 year ago
@vaguelyhumanoid 1. Jesus wouldn't tell me that, and 2. I never said they were identical, there is just no comparison to the terms of right and wrong. A pantheist site informed me there's "no concept of sin and no Satan. So there is no fiery hell to worry about either. They have their own values and ethics and are responsible for their own actions." So I guess the best word that can replace identical, is "One".
EPTechCompany 1 year ago
@EPTechCompany There's a difference between "no concept of sin and no Satan" and "no right or wrong". I recommend you read up on actual, philosophical ethics. As for everything being one, that refers to everything being interconnected, not to everything being the same. Also, how do you know Jesus is God? You also don't understand that I'm giving a hypothetical scenario. If God directly, undeniably, and unambiguous told you that you had to kill your family, would you do it?
vaguelyhumanoid 1 year ago
@vaguelyhumanoid The Bible tells me Jesus is Lord, so through that and my faith, that's how I know. Assume God does tell me to kill my family, then I would do it by divine command theory. However, God would not tell me to kill my family because that is not of God's character, so there is a contradiction. Because God commanding me to kill my family is false and not in the character of God, God would not tell me to kill my family.
EPTechCompany 1 year ago
@vaguelyhumanoid Also, it said "They have their own values and ethics", meaning that rape, murder, and SIN in general have no way of being determined whether they are right or wrong. Pantheism, Panentheism, and Paganism are just a flip of the coin, one side being right... the other wrong. Back in med-evil times, men would joust against each other to determine what was truth. The man who won was "obviously" telling the truth. In this ideal, there's no right and wrong but a decision made by fools.
EPTechCompany 1 year ago
@EPTechCompany
1. How do you know whether the Bible is true?
2. How do you know God's character? No resorting to the Bible without giving a satisfactory answer to question 1.
3. I don't think "they have their own values and ethics" means "moral nihilism is true".
vaguelyhumanoid 1 year ago
@vaguelyhumanoid you'll never be satisfied because you've never given Jesus a second-thought
EPTechCompany 1 year ago
@EPTechCompany I'm not against Jesus. Jesus was an interesting guy, and I respect how he challenged the authorities of the day in favor of a more just society. Also, I was a Christian for a while. Don't make snap judgments about someone you don't even know.
vaguelyhumanoid 1 year ago
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vaguelyhumanoid 1 year ago
@vaguelyhumanoid Hey I read that you were a Christian for a while. The thing is just how you ask how our Bible is real, how do you know Karma itself is real? How do you know that it isn't just God working a little justice into each of our lives for the thing we did a couple of seconds or days ago(working behind the scenes)? I kind of understand where you're coming from and the thing about mankind is that we love accepting things at face value.
nightdeath4 10 months ago
@vaguelyhumanoid When a group of intellectuals see things our way, or in our perspective then we'll be content with what we know and say ya what I know and believe is concrete and real now. The thing is the truth is the same and real everywhere, if God is the living God that people say exists then he would prove himself to be real. All I am really saying is this, expose yourself to whats out there not to the little you might know. That was the first step I took when I choose to become Christian.
nightdeath4 10 months ago
Jesus saves, haters. Stop hating start loving.
EPTechCompany 1 year ago
@EPTechCompany - The quickest way to become an Atheist is by reading the Bible.
boxingaddict25 1 year ago
@boxingaddict25 Quickest way to become an Atheist is to reject God. Religion will not save you! Jesus is the only being that can save us! Not religion!
EPTechCompany 1 year ago
@EPTechCompany - The difference between you and me is that I actually care about truth.
boxingaddict25 1 year ago
@boxingaddict25 than you should watch the True U series