@myeyeswontdry2 depends if you overpronate. The Pure Cadence shoe has some stability and would be better for you compared to the Pure Flow. However - if you are looking for a regular training shoe the Brooks Adrenaline would probably be your best bet. Have someone at a speciality running shoe store watch you walk/run. It also depends on your injury history and whether or not you wear orthotics. good luck.
@Vo2maxProductions A Snails Pace is my local shop, and although they've been helpful.. I'm still experimenting/searching for that perfect shoe (for me). I used the Brooks online 'Shoe Advisor' to get their recommended shoes, and PureForm's, Adrenaline's, and Ravenna's were the Top 3 for 'mild/moderate pronation'. I'm definitely picking up a pair of Adrenaline's (or Ravenna's) to run distance events!
@Vo2maxProductions I ended up visiting my local shop and my pronation is moderate, so I picked up a pair of Adrenaline 12s (I also ran/tested the Ravenna's and Adrenaline 11s too). They agreed that running in the Adrenaline's for training/distance, and using the PureForm's on the trail (shorter distances) would be a good balance..
@myeyeswontdry2 variety and moderation is good in training and treating your legs/feet well! I've done many a mile in the Adrenaline and like them as well.
@myeyeswontdry2 also saw from the other vid that you just got a pair of Pure Flows - I would transition slowly into mileage with them. It really depends on how flat your arch is and how much you pronate - on whether or not you are doing to need any stability. Of course if you want all the way to Vibrams (which you know my stance on those) you're not going to get any support and the transition would be harder
@Vo2maxProductions Many thanks for all the feedback! As I mentioned, the 9.5s fit really well.. I'd say pretty much perfect for a running shoe. I have a slight (almost normal arch) which appears flat, but I've only run a few miles in them since they arrived a couple days ago. When you mention transitioning into PureForm's slowly... Would 4 mile (10min p/mi) runs be a fair enough measure for the first week, or 2?
PS I stand with your sentiment on Vibrams. Novelty IMO
Over-striding = Slow cadence, move your feet quicker, around 180bpm like he says, think more ninja, less jogger in sweats people! Overall good video, if it inspires one less person to heel strike it'll of done it's job lol.
@TheLinkMedic Thank you. I'm not saying my form is great by any means (I still overstride a little and have a cadence of about 175 most of the time). The faster cadence = less impact force and it will make you faster because you aren't as likely to get injured!
@AwesomeRants newton's third law. you have to push off in order to lift. How do real elites like Ryan Hall run 2:05?...its because they push off really hard, generate a lot of force and the result is a long stride. His ground contact time is also very minimal and his feet seem to "pop" off the ground. Those are FT fibers. A longer stride at 180 steps per minute = faster speed.
@Vo2maxProductions If you lean slightly from the ankles, gravity will do the work for you and you won't have to use muscle power to get from one spot to another. Pushing off can also lead to a metatarsal injury when wearing minimal shoes. If you want to continue with these sort of bad habits, maybe just wear conventional trainers. It's better to have bad form in traditional shoes than okay form in minimal shoes.
Are theese a good alternative to my asics trainer? some of my toes hurts when i run more midfoot. Btw if it helps, i have a 7 years of runnin on track background
@ltzTim what kind of asics trainer do you have and how old is it? do your toes hurt on the top of your foot? you don't want to force a midfoot strike too fast too soon...let it come to you. could be your toes hurt if your shoes are too small or you are in a stability shoe and you need a neutral shoe...
@chrismartin224 maybe for you. everyone is a little different. compared to the Brooks Defyance we noticed a very significant experience wearing the Brooks Pure Flow. The Pure Connect has even less cushion...really depends on the runner, his/her form, their weight and running experience.
@Vo2maxProductions I would disagree and say none of those things are factors. I have seen far too many overweight people who could not run comfortably... ever... pick up VFF's and it change their running world. The fact is they can now run comfortably because they can get immediate feedback from their feet whereas a shoe with a stack height of 15mm or more dampens the majority of that necessary feedback. I'm sure they have better ground feel than moon shoes too, lol.
@Vo2maxProductions lol, indeed, but I said "stack height" ...not "drop". I'm talking about how much material is masking or dampening one's feet from sensing anything - the amount of material between the foot and the ground. As an example, the new Altra Adam sits just 3.4mm off the ground (and in a zero-drop configuration). Also, the Kinvara boasted a 4mm drop and I personally measured it at a 6mm, so I'm not sold that Brooks honestly dropped all their new line down to a 4mm.
@chrismartin224 In my opinion a couple mm of cushioning here and there isn't going to make much of a difference when it comes to helping (or hurting) your running form. A thin layer of cushioning, however, (such as 4mm) is enough to save your from getting cut due to a sharp rock, nail or piece of glass. And then there is footstrike hemolysis. What kind of "sensory feedback" is occuring when you are barefoot (or in Vibrams) VS a low profile shoe?
@Vo2maxProductions If you are running with your eyes closed then I can see why you would be worried about sharp rocks, nails and glass. Personally, I like to enjoy my scenery when I run, not to mention watch where I put my foot. Apparently my "stack height" term is still being confused with "drop" somehow, so I'm just going to drop that one. Picture this, jumping barefoot off a stair onto a piece of foam... Now picture jumping of the stair onto cement... which will force you to land lighter?
@chrismartin224 no, but I run with other people and we talk and get distracted. also run on some industrial sidewalks with glass, rocks and needles. I get stack height. To answer your question though: you will land with the same amount of force. It is just like with Vibrams vs cushioned shoes. Only if you think about it (and Vibrams/barefoot running promote this) are you going to shorten your stride and land more forefoot - that is what results in less impact force. You can do this in shoes also
@Vo2maxProductions You will land with less actual impact. In a cushioned shoe there is more actual impact because there is less perceived impact, i.e., the less you feel your impact the more your actual impact.
@chrismartin224 Unless you cut your shoe completely in half and measured the drop from the center of the shoe, you're not measuring correctly. Every shoe has walls surrounding the glue/stitching where the upper meets the shoe to hold it together and conform to the foot shape. Simply putting a ruler up to the edge of the shoe will give you inaccurate results.
@andevho I don't remember indicating I use a ruler to measure. I use a digital caliper that measures the center of the heel/forefoot to the center of the outsole. It's quite accurate actually.
@Vo2maxProductions Of course the big brands are following the market rather than the science but at least they are headed in the right direction either way. I have to admit though, at least the connect is closer to a good shoe than anything they've made to date. And by good shoe I mean something that does not restrict the foot from moving naturally, including pronation.
Thanks for posting. This video has really helped me. Focusing on the stepping over part has made a world of difference for me, and who knows why but the achilles issues i have had for a year now have not been felt since working on this, along with the lead with the chest. I run in normal 12mm heel to toe drop shoes and not sure i want to mess with that now that I seem to be healthy, plus have New York Marathon in about a month. Anywhoo, Great vids. Thanks.
@camper19 great to hear! your 12mm shoes are probably fine - no need to change too many variables at once when you are healthy and have a race coming up. best of luck at the NYC marathon!
4mm is too far from 0mm to be "basically nothing".
beergaucho2 1 week ago
Can you recommend a (Brooks model) shoe for a relatively flat arch?
myeyeswontdry2 3 weeks ago
@myeyeswontdry2 depends if you overpronate. The Pure Cadence shoe has some stability and would be better for you compared to the Pure Flow. However - if you are looking for a regular training shoe the Brooks Adrenaline would probably be your best bet. Have someone at a speciality running shoe store watch you walk/run. It also depends on your injury history and whether or not you wear orthotics. good luck.
Vo2maxProductions 2 weeks ago
@Vo2maxProductions A Snails Pace is my local shop, and although they've been helpful.. I'm still experimenting/searching for that perfect shoe (for me). I used the Brooks online 'Shoe Advisor' to get their recommended shoes, and PureForm's, Adrenaline's, and Ravenna's were the Top 3 for 'mild/moderate pronation'. I'm definitely picking up a pair of Adrenaline's (or Ravenna's) to run distance events!
myeyeswontdry2 2 weeks ago
@Vo2maxProductions I ended up visiting my local shop and my pronation is moderate, so I picked up a pair of Adrenaline 12s (I also ran/tested the Ravenna's and Adrenaline 11s too). They agreed that running in the Adrenaline's for training/distance, and using the PureForm's on the trail (shorter distances) would be a good balance..
myeyeswontdry2 1 week ago
@myeyeswontdry2 variety and moderation is good in training and treating your legs/feet well! I've done many a mile in the Adrenaline and like them as well.
Vo2maxProductions 6 days ago
@myeyeswontdry2 also saw from the other vid that you just got a pair of Pure Flows - I would transition slowly into mileage with them. It really depends on how flat your arch is and how much you pronate - on whether or not you are doing to need any stability. Of course if you want all the way to Vibrams (which you know my stance on those) you're not going to get any support and the transition would be harder
Vo2maxProductions 2 weeks ago
@Vo2maxProductions Many thanks for all the feedback! As I mentioned, the 9.5s fit really well.. I'd say pretty much perfect for a running shoe. I have a slight (almost normal arch) which appears flat, but I've only run a few miles in them since they arrived a couple days ago. When you mention transitioning into PureForm's slowly... Would 4 mile (10min p/mi) runs be a fair enough measure for the first week, or 2?
PS I stand with your sentiment on Vibrams. Novelty IMO
myeyeswontdry2 2 weeks ago
Many thanks for this breakdown!
myeyeswontdry2 3 weeks ago
BLA BLA BAL BLAH
ailm96094 3 weeks ago
Is their anyone that should not try minimalistic running? As in pronation, arches, etc. I understand injuries wise who should not try it.
later6 1 month ago
@later6 perhaps if you've run a lot already in your life and never had injury problems
Vo2maxProductions 2 weeks ago
Over-striding = Slow cadence, move your feet quicker, around 180bpm like he says, think more ninja, less jogger in sweats people! Overall good video, if it inspires one less person to heel strike it'll of done it's job lol.
TheLinkMedic 1 month ago
@TheLinkMedic Thank you. I'm not saying my form is great by any means (I still overstride a little and have a cadence of about 175 most of the time). The faster cadence = less impact force and it will make you faster because you aren't as likely to get injured!
Vo2maxProductions 1 month ago
Great illustration on the running form; thanks! Good luck in Houston!
CenteredLiving 1 month ago
@CenteredLiving Thanks!
Vo2maxProductions 1 month ago
A part of your over striding may be a result of pushing off. Lift instead of push.
AwesomeRants 2 months ago
@AwesomeRants newton's third law. you have to push off in order to lift. How do real elites like Ryan Hall run 2:05?...its because they push off really hard, generate a lot of force and the result is a long stride. His ground contact time is also very minimal and his feet seem to "pop" off the ground. Those are FT fibers. A longer stride at 180 steps per minute = faster speed.
Vo2maxProductions 1 month ago
@Vo2maxProductions If you lean slightly from the ankles, gravity will do the work for you and you won't have to use muscle power to get from one spot to another. Pushing off can also lead to a metatarsal injury when wearing minimal shoes. If you want to continue with these sort of bad habits, maybe just wear conventional trainers. It's better to have bad form in traditional shoes than okay form in minimal shoes.
AwesomeRants 1 month ago
Are theese a good alternative to my asics trainer? some of my toes hurts when i run more midfoot. Btw if it helps, i have a 7 years of runnin on track background
ltzTim 4 months ago
@ltzTim what kind of asics trainer do you have and how old is it? do your toes hurt on the top of your foot? you don't want to force a midfoot strike too fast too soon...let it come to you. could be your toes hurt if your shoes are too small or you are in a stability shoe and you need a neutral shoe...
Vo2maxProductions 4 months ago
Nice video... thanks Brooks!
CaptianAwesome 4 months ago
Brooks Pure, Nike Free, Saucony Kinvara.... They're all way too cushioned to get any shred of feedback concerning your form. Inov-8 all the way.
chrismartin224 5 months ago
@chrismartin224 maybe for you. everyone is a little different. compared to the Brooks Defyance we noticed a very significant experience wearing the Brooks Pure Flow. The Pure Connect has even less cushion...really depends on the runner, his/her form, their weight and running experience.
Vo2maxProductions 5 months ago
@Vo2maxProductions I would disagree and say none of those things are factors. I have seen far too many overweight people who could not run comfortably... ever... pick up VFF's and it change their running world. The fact is they can now run comfortably because they can get immediate feedback from their feet whereas a shoe with a stack height of 15mm or more dampens the majority of that necessary feedback. I'm sure they have better ground feel than moon shoes too, lol.
chrismartin224 5 months ago
@chrismartin224 I agree, 15m is quite a bit of cushioning. The Brooks Pure Project shoes all have a 4mm drop...very low profile.
Vo2maxProductions 5 months ago
@Vo2maxProductions *15mm not "15m" that would be a ton!
Vo2maxProductions 5 months ago
@Vo2maxProductions lol, indeed, but I said "stack height" ...not "drop". I'm talking about how much material is masking or dampening one's feet from sensing anything - the amount of material between the foot and the ground. As an example, the new Altra Adam sits just 3.4mm off the ground (and in a zero-drop configuration). Also, the Kinvara boasted a 4mm drop and I personally measured it at a 6mm, so I'm not sold that Brooks honestly dropped all their new line down to a 4mm.
chrismartin224 5 months ago
@chrismartin224 In my opinion a couple mm of cushioning here and there isn't going to make much of a difference when it comes to helping (or hurting) your running form. A thin layer of cushioning, however, (such as 4mm) is enough to save your from getting cut due to a sharp rock, nail or piece of glass. And then there is footstrike hemolysis. What kind of "sensory feedback" is occuring when you are barefoot (or in Vibrams) VS a low profile shoe?
Vo2maxProductions 5 months ago
@Vo2maxProductions If you are running with your eyes closed then I can see why you would be worried about sharp rocks, nails and glass. Personally, I like to enjoy my scenery when I run, not to mention watch where I put my foot. Apparently my "stack height" term is still being confused with "drop" somehow, so I'm just going to drop that one. Picture this, jumping barefoot off a stair onto a piece of foam... Now picture jumping of the stair onto cement... which will force you to land lighter?
chrismartin224 5 months ago
@chrismartin224 no, but I run with other people and we talk and get distracted. also run on some industrial sidewalks with glass, rocks and needles. I get stack height. To answer your question though: you will land with the same amount of force. It is just like with Vibrams vs cushioned shoes. Only if you think about it (and Vibrams/barefoot running promote this) are you going to shorten your stride and land more forefoot - that is what results in less impact force. You can do this in shoes also
Vo2maxProductions 5 months ago
@Vo2maxProductions You will land with less actual impact. In a cushioned shoe there is more actual impact because there is less perceived impact, i.e., the less you feel your impact the more your actual impact.
chrismartin224 5 months ago
@chrismartin224 Unless you cut your shoe completely in half and measured the drop from the center of the shoe, you're not measuring correctly. Every shoe has walls surrounding the glue/stitching where the upper meets the shoe to hold it together and conform to the foot shape. Simply putting a ruler up to the edge of the shoe will give you inaccurate results.
andevho 5 months ago
@andevho I don't remember indicating I use a ruler to measure. I use a digital caliper that measures the center of the heel/forefoot to the center of the outsole. It's quite accurate actually.
chrismartin224 5 months ago
@Vo2maxProductions Of course the big brands are following the market rather than the science but at least they are headed in the right direction either way. I have to admit though, at least the connect is closer to a good shoe than anything they've made to date. And by good shoe I mean something that does not restrict the foot from moving naturally, including pronation.
chrismartin224 5 months ago
Thanks for posting. This video has really helped me. Focusing on the stepping over part has made a world of difference for me, and who knows why but the achilles issues i have had for a year now have not been felt since working on this, along with the lead with the chest. I run in normal 12mm heel to toe drop shoes and not sure i want to mess with that now that I seem to be healthy, plus have New York Marathon in about a month. Anywhoo, Great vids. Thanks.
camper19 5 months ago
@camper19 great to hear! your 12mm shoes are probably fine - no need to change too many variables at once when you are healthy and have a race coming up. best of luck at the NYC marathon!
Vo2maxProductions 5 months ago