Let me ask you guys an honest question that I am genuinely curious about. For those of you that support Gay marriage, would you be opposed to the legalization of polygamous marriage? Suppose there were a proposition in your state that sought to remove the numerical limit of 2 people from the definition of marriage. If the law passes, then groups of any size (up to, lets say, ten or so) can enter into marriage together as a group. Would you vote yes or no for such a proposal? Why or why not?
I've actually thought a lot about that. i would, however there's so much room to abuse that...like, using the rights gained by marriage to gain certain things.
WIth that said, a lot of couples now use marriage to just gain certain benefits...so i don't know. It's a tough one, but if it was all about love, then yes i would vote for it.
Hmm, I have to say I find that response intriguing. I've asked that question a lot and so far everyone I've talked to has been completely against polygamous marriage. At that point I normally try to use that person's own reasons for opposing polygamy to help them understand how someone can be opposed to gay marriage. So here I'm a little taken aback to be honest. But let me take you a step further. What about incestuous relationships? Or a 16 and 30 year old that claim to be in love?
Well, regarding underage relationships, we've decided as a society that a person under the age of 18 isn't developed enough to make the adult decision to enter into a legal relationship...much like driving, drinking, renting a car. I agree with that societal structure, so I would be against any movement to legalize sex/marriage involving anyone under 18.
I don't buy that argument for a second. Remember, what "we've decided as a society" is precisely the question at hand when we put an issue to a vote. But the gay rights movement is all about the idea that marriage rights should NOT be up for a vote, because they are civil rights and should be guaranteed by the state. My question is, if society cannot "decide" to deny marriage to a homosexual couple, why is it ok for society to "decide" to deny marriage to a 17 or 16 year old?
incest is a little different. I think it's interesting because the main argument against it is that it contaminates the gene pool/provides room for mutations or whatever.
it's stupid because while yes, it may do that, we don't have laws on the books making it illegal to drink while pregnant or smoke while pregnant or (get this!) have an abortion.
I don't know why we're so concerned about minor mutations when we're ripping the fetuses out of our bodies anyway.
Furthermore, I think you know as well as I do that there is no sudden burst of insight, wisdom, or decision making ability that one experiences on his or her 18th birthday. Honest question: do you really see that much difference between the ages of 18, 17, and 16? In my experience, its all about the person. I've met 15 year olds that are much more responsible and competent than some 18 year olds, and I've also met 20 year olds that take absolutely no personal responsibility for themselves.
well, in response to the age question, i suppose that if we find a way to accurately measure a person's maturity in all fairness, then we might change the way we decide that factor, but until then, we need something like an age to determine that. I think moreso than anything it's a mindset, and coupled with everything else you can do when you turn 18, it makes sense to me.
With regard to incest, I think you misunderstand the historical social attitude toward these relationships. While its true that an incestuous relationship makes the couple more likely to have birth defects, so do a lot of other activities, as you point out. In fact, many normal couples are at increased risk of these defects simply based on family medical history. We would never question those marriages. So I think for your position to be consistent you would have to support incest marriage.
@jjKickerK Marriage to multiple people does not apply to this argument. Here's why it lies outside the bounds of a conversation about "equality": In the old traditional way, a man has the right to marry a woman. To be equal, a woman should have that right too. (Switch all the genders in that equation, and it works the same.) A man who wants to marry two people can't point to another man with that right and claim inequality. We are fighting for marriage "equality." That's all.
@jjKickerK Marriage to multiple people does not apply to this argument. Here's why it lies outside the bounds of a conversation about "equality": In the old traditional way, a man has the right to marry a woman. To be equal, a woman should have that right too. (Switch all the genders in that equation, and it works the same.) A man who wants to marry two people can't point to another man with that right and claim inequality. We are fighting for marriage "equality." That's all.
this commercial was one of the dumbest to run this election cycle. First of all, what's the matter? Can't show two lesbians trying to get "married" and tripping over soda pop cans? Or two gays?
Obviously that is not honest advertising. Playing on sympathies that don't even apply, because if we had seen the real thing, the ad would not work. Still, it didn't work. That's why it was such a dumb ad.
the message is to target straight people not for gay people.... this commercial is smart.... the reason why they put a male and a female not same sex is so people who r not homosexuals can relate to what the message is saying... what if you can't (regardless if ur a male marrying a female, vice-versa) cannot marry the person you love the most
I've raised two sons who are also straight. They are voting-age and they are also voting against California's prop. 8. I have taught them well. Equality for all! =)
I'm also proud to say that I have raised my sons in such a way that if had in fact been gay, they know that early on they would not have a problem "coming out". That's the way it should be.
This is absolutely unfair. Homosexuals have a long line of lawyers and politicians for them; they always focus on being respected, and if a finger is raised that shows any line of disrespect, i.e not allowing them to be married in a Christian church because it goes against the teachings, homosexuals have both politicians and, again, lawyers, as well as protests backing them up- publicly hanging the group or individual. It is like a form of bullying; and I'm sick of it.
if people didn't use the word "gay" to mean stupid, or shoot us for asking to be our valentine, or go to our marriages and tell us that homosexuality is wrong, we wouldn't need it.
(btw, im not forcing my marriage on any church and neither is anyone else)
im sick of people like you who talk about the gay lobby. YOU KNOW WHY WE HAVE A GAY LOBBY?! because views still haven't changed, ignorance still exists, and we need people to fight for us. DUH
So we are in a paradox, good sir. Perhaps we are two opposite groups that resemble two magnets facing eachother on the same side, and it is impossible for us to connect.
I'm stating it a paradox because it is impossible for people to be kind to those that beat the hammer of rights, yet continue to beat it in places like San Francisco, Connecticut and Massachusetts where they are given the same rights.
but it's a process? maybe i'm not understanding what you're saying, but from now until we have full equality across this country (including acceptance/tolerance from the masses) and don't have to worry about being discriminated against, we're going to have a gay lobby and lawyers etc?
You know that Christians and blacks and everyone else ALSO have lobbies and lawyers that only work for them, right?
Defining gay marriage restricts religious liberty (In Massachusetts Catholic charities can't adopt out as their doctrine is "discriminatory") and restricts parental rights (In Massachusetts, homosexual fairy tales were taught as equal treatment without parental authority). I want to protect my kids against what I, as a parent, feel is morally wrong. What about my rights? Why take over the definition of marriage? Domestic partnerships give gays ALL of the same rights. Marriage isn't a right.
1. Domestic partnerships DO NOT give all the same rights. period.
2. if you think it's wrong, then take your kid out of the school system. it's the same reason white supremicists home school their kids--so they can keep filling their heads with the same ignorance. it's brainwashing. you have to let your kids decide for themselves. By teaching things like that in public school, it is opening up room for discussion. Isn't that what democracy is about?
These "yes on 8" folks and their tactic using the school system to instill fear is reprehensible.
What's wrong with the "King and King" story? It's the truth and it's not going away even if Prop. 8 passes. There will still be children raised by gay couples. There will still be children who are gay. It's about time we start recognizing that and stop the prejudice. Start teaching that it is OK to be who you. This world would be a much better place.
theres nothing in the bible that says homosexuality is wrong. you've been force-fed lies and, as i did earlier in my life, i believed them all.
put yourself in my position. god made me the way i am. all i want is for people to treat me as equal. you and i both know that marriage is what adults view as equal. it is what makes you adult. it legitimizes everything.
I can't believe that the Catholic church shut down their adoption program. How sad.. they would rather see children shuffled between foster homes than being adopted by a loving gay couple. How sad.
the catholic church has unfortunately lost sight of its original mission ..to care fore the needy ...they have just abandoned their duties ,,,i'm catholic and i know that jesus wud hav been horrified.
This ad is a very true representation of the struggle that gay people face every day. If the USA recognized gay marriage it would be a MAJOR step forward for us and the rest of the industrialized world.
we're all entitled to the right to love. if a person is against gay marraige, here's a simple solution, DON'T GET ONE. I don't understand how people can deny a person happiness and love. That's messed up.
I agree with you. According to people against it who think that "marriage is about having a family: man, women, children", a man can't marry a woman who is infertile, or vice-versa. Would you deny their rights too?
What about elderly people who stay single throughout their lives now marry? Are you saying that they can't marry because they are unable to have children?
This is ludicrous. I'm not homosexual, but I don't see what's wrong about gay marriage. They're happy and it doesn't bother me.
Now I am a Christian that goes to church once a week, every week. I really think what people want to do, let them. Would you really want to see someone die unloved and alone? I know I wouldn't. I am not taking a side but really, does it matter what other people choose? Everyone has a choice to make and let themselves make it not the rest of the world. Stand up for what you believe!!!
Can you really put yourself in her shoes. What happens if you couldnt get married, what happened if everyone was against you, even your state or country. It is really sad that countries like Spain and South Africa makes it legal for gay and lesbian couples to marry, but not in the US. Furthermore, California is not the first state to make it legal, Massachussetts made it legal in 2000. We dont want just a wedding. In getting this passed in November, we will have full rights.
There is always going to be hate and there will always be those who use religion as a brainwashing mechanism to spread their hatred. Like in so many ways in history, we all learn to rise above.
I am so proud of California, my former home. What I cannot understand is why so many people from outside California are trying so hard to fight this. The Supreme Court ruled, and that should be it. If you don't like what is legal in California, then don't live there.
How can you make that jump? It is amazing how whenever homosexuality comes up, bestiality is placed in the same category. Sex (excluding rape) or Marriage is something that requires consent. Therefore, your statement makes no sense.
God being 21 years old doesn't make you much mature with the comment you just posted. Did your parents brainwash you to make you believe that a gay person marries an animal, when in reality probably most of those people who have sex with animals might happen to be straight.
Don't compare being gay to something like beastility because its TWO different things. Why don't you post a comment that is a little more mature than what you put here 2 months ago.
Being gay is not unnatural you're just as narrow minded as the people who go around holding signs that say "GOD HATES FAGS". Bestiality is illegal, which means its wrong to have sex with an animal.
If you consider gay marriage as illegal and wrong and unnatural you deserve to be alone in life. Nobody can help being who they are, you don't choose to be gay. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says "I think I'll be gay today and be straight tomorrow" Having sex with an animal is a choice.
1. Gay marriages were illegal at one time now their not. Mentally challenged people were lawfully murdered in Nazi Germany. There is such a thing as a bad law.
2. I consider homosexuality wrong out of a biblical perspective.
3. Our country was founded on Judeo Christian assumptions.
4. Their is no scientific evidence that people are born gay. So I don't classify that behavior different than beastiality.
Right there with the whole biblical perspective shows that you're willing to believe some kind of fairy tale of a book that tells you homosexuality is wrong. Yet nobody knows from God's actual mouth if it was wrong, the bible has been passed down century to century and its been rewritten so many times it's no longer what God said in his true words so it's pretty much a book that is not true at all.
Pretty much religion has made the biggest mistake with electing George W. Bush as our President.
Watch that video as the facts are pretty much straight forward and to the point. There is evidence you just don't realize it because you don't understand what's already been studied.
Again you don't think for yourself because you are allowing religion to make the decisions for you, you're just pushed more into making the decision for yourself.
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Blah, blah, blah religions blinds me same old sound bite. 90 percent of the world believes in God and were all unreasonable. Righhht. Let the 5-10 percent of athiests do all the thinking and decision making because they have incredible insight into humanity and morality and possess logic to match it.
It's just lame to accuse me of being a blind follower of a man made religion. Did it ever occur to you that I may have had some kind of experience with God that reinforces my views?
The whole thing about animals having sex with humans has no similarity between gay men, yet you put both being gay and having sex with animals as the same group. Shows how very little you know about that.
If you think just because gays and lesbians are trying to have the opportunity to get married is the same thing as animals having sex with humans then you are really fucked in the head. Lots of people are already telling you that this has nothing to do with animals having sex with people.
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I did watch that video. I can direct you to videos of former homosexuals who changed and now live heterosexual lifes. I know I know their bias.....much like that video.
I need concrete, factual evidence, not some secular persons OPINION on the matter.
In the hisory of the world marriages among same sex couples never occured. Now all of sudden we are to recognize a healthy practice that was unheard of until now?
I am still waiting for a moral standard suggesting animal sex is wrong?
I don't really believe former homosexuals, that had to be a lot of brainwashing to make them believe that they are straight. They might "THINK" of themselves as straight but those homosexual feelings are always going to be there no matter how much they pretend that it's not.
Also I don't think some religion is going to play any kind of part in if California will determine if same sex people can marry. No matter how high Fred Phelps raises his "Fags Must Die!" sign he will never win.
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1. You don't believe their are former homsexuals...so your denying personal testimonies without any evidence to back up your belief? You seem to know the psychology of gays or former gays so well...I am just curious as to where you get your insight into every individuals brain.
2. The crazy RIGHT supremist groups do not represent Christianity in its entirety. I know its convenient for you to lump everybody together, but you error in doing so.
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As far as California legislature, I agree with you. Religion will not be a factor. The issue is changing the definition of marriage and granting rights that were never spelled out in the constitution.
Just to comment on your second point, I don't think too many people, given the choice, would choose to be gay. The results, depending on where you live, can be dangerous if not deadly. I do believe that people choose to be themselves or live a lie and hopefully we will see a day where gays, lesbians, straight, bisexual, transgendered can all live as themselves without fear of discrimination, reject and so on.
Nobody wants to be persecuted. Nobody wants to be treated like crap. However, we treat pedophiles like outcastes in our society. Should this change? I am not directly relating child molestation and gayness but I am making the point that social pressure on some things MUST always exist.
haha, well pedophilia and child molestation are different things. I think that pedophilia is a natural sexual urge. However, acting on that urge means that you have to molest children, which I am (obviously) completely against and think is disgusting. We as a society have decided that people under the age of 18 are not capable of making their own decisions when it comes to sex, and i think it should stay that way. I dont think that pedophiles should be outcasts, just the ones who act on it.
Also if you believe that people are not born gay and that they CHOOSE to be straight maybe your narrow mind should go and watch this video on YouTube called "Homosexuality: Is It A Choice? [For the Bible Tells Me So]"
Then you'll believe that your so called "Bible" will tell you that people choose to be gay when in reality they can be proven wrong with science, so before you state 4. on your little list is true go do some research before making assumptions.
I feel sorry that you're 28 years old and still believe that being gay is a choice and that its unnatural to be gay, bet your parents fucked you up good to make you believe some bullshit like that.
At 28 years old, a person should be thinking for themselves. Even if my parents screwed me up it is my responsibility to grow up and figure out things for myself. Disagreeing with you doesn't make me a brainwashed, horrible person.
You have no basis of any kind to tell me what I believe is bullcrap.
And you grew up as a homophobe believing that gay people marry animals when someone stated on these comments that animals don't have power of choice.
Plus you never really figured things out for yourself because you're saying the bible is choosing what you need to believe in life.
A person who is to figure things out in their life is someone who is not going to read a book and say "Oh I think homosexuality is wrong because the Bible tells me so" For once think for yourself and not the Bible.
Animals don't have the power of choice. Humans do. You cannot compare a human- gay or straight to an animal. That's just terrible, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
For some reason, all the people who are against gay marriage, come to this conclusion....and they think we're crazy! I have absolutely no desire to marry my dog or gecko, thanks!
I'm so happy that Cali is now allowing same sex marriage. My best friend is gay and he can finally be with the person he loves legally. Marriage is not just about religion it's about being with the one you love and having the civil rights that go along with it. And for all of you who bash gays/lesbians/bis, I feel sorry for you because God wants you to love everyone it is not your place to pass down judgement
First learn how to speak english, then you can argue your point. In my mind you are the waste of oxygen and you don't even deserve to get your voice heard because you don't matter. You're scared and alone and I feel sorry for you....
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In other words, to make this more clear to understand:
Gay people are destined to have one of the greatest spot in hell, being RAPE by the fucking DEVIL!!!! Hahahahahahah, I'm cracking up, bitches. The hatred won't stop, trust me.
I'm sure they can handle pain and suffering by getting fucked, but hell is different.
What good is a car if it won't move? That's exactly what a gay man is.
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What good does it bring fucking another man by the ass?
Kissing your own kind?
Loving your own kind?
When men and womans have always been destined to have childrens, family, love, getting remembered, giving life.
The only thing that will end this is not putting a fucking comment on Youtube expressing your opinion, the only thing that will stop this is fucking annihilating all you fucking waste of life, queers out there.
The best thing you could do in your life is go to jail and get pleasure
your church still prohibits gay marriage i suppose? or is the decision in california affecting the norms of your church?
civil rights have nothing,NOTHING to do with religion. the foundation of society is indeed family, and the face of family is as diverse as my heritage, as the colors in the universe. but mariage isn't the foundation of society. people that use those 2 concepts (family and marriage) interchangeably have no idea what they mean.
it will when God comes down and fixes everything. do you think the world will live in wickedness and evil forever? if my children choose to be gay that is there choice, but for children who dont listen to there parents are unwise children. are you saying parents dont know whats best for there children? if so your not a responsible parent and shouldnt have children
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marriage is most importantly about concieving and raising children. you cant do that in a gay marriage because it is unnatural. marriage is for joining a man and women because only they can be joined properly, gays only shove stuff up there asses.
And what of infertile couples or couples that don't want children......or how about the thousands of children in foster care? And my wife and I are quite happy raising our 7 month old son so yes, gays can raise families.
Yeah but kids deserve a mother and a father. That is the whole point. Redefining marriage is redifining the family unit and structure...it's an unintended consequence. Even the Greeks did not marry their boy lovers and kept their wifes at home. They understood the purpose of marriage.
That's your opinion. I don't understand why people get all up in arms about things that don't concern them. If you don't like same-sex marriages, don't marry someone of the same sex.
Yes that also isn't ideal. But that is a reality. What I am saying is the ideal is being changed. Of course we can lower the standard but why? Marriage has been recognized by all cultures for thousands of years as a bond between a man and wife for the purpose of children and a family. There have always been orphans but that is a problem too.
The point is if marriage is legal all americans are forced to swallow the gay agenda and taught that this is an acceptable lifestyle.
the only good home for a child is a loving home. You can have a mother and a father and be in the most dangerous household in the world. The emphasis on straight, two-parent homes has destroyed the lives of millions of children who would have been better off in a loving, gay or one-parent household (or nontraditional like grandparents etc). We need to come together and realize that the only good home for a kid is a loving one, no matter who the parent(s) is.
"The emphasis on straight, two-parent homes has destroyed the lives of millions of children who would have been better off in a loving, gay or one-parent household "
This needs to be backed up by evidence. I do agree better with a gay good parent than abusive straight parents. Of course those kinda parents aren't really parents at all. Yes kids need love..but they need a male and female role model to model love to them for the maximum benefit. Kids need that. Why is this so hard ?
it was a general statement that only needs common sense. "millions" really isn't that many when u think about.
i agree that role models are important, and that to have different role models is important too. But "maximum benefit" is a stupid way to put it. There's no way to measure "maximum benefit," and i believe that a loving home is a loving home is a loving home. There's no such thing as degrees of loving. If you love 'em, and you raise 'em well, that's all that can be achieved.
Being attracted to a 3 year old undevoloped girl/boy is not normal. That isn't an urge. A teenager is a little different (as they are developing). And you emphasize my point that it is acting on an impulse is not always the best decision. If pedophiles must not act on an impulse gays could do the same. Now is that cruel? Well, is it cruel for a pedophile to not act out on his/her basic urges? Think about it.
haha, it's only not normal b/c most people don't have those urges. I don't and you don't, but just put yourself in the position of someone who does?
also, you missed my point that we regulate decision making. humans under the age of 18 can't make decisions because they're developing. that obviously doesn't apply to two consenting gay adults. it's not about comparing them, it's about taking each case on its own. its cruel to not allow a pedophile to act out, but that's how it has to be.
What is a bigger dilemma is single mothers raising kids on their own. Fatherless homes are a crisis. Sometimes a moms love simply isn't enough. Kids need a strong masculine figure in the home. Women these days think that they alone can do it all. Can't blame them really as their sex partners are losers.
fatherless homes are only a crisis because we don't pay women enough and they can't support their children. If we equalized the pay scales, then women could afford to raise their children.
you can't even see your own sexism. "kids need a strong masculine figure in the home." "strength" has nothing to do with masculinity, and a child can learn strength from anyone, that person doesn't need to be sleeping with the mother/father.
You have no idea. IT isn't sexism. You really don't understand the differences between a male and a female. Please do your studies about fatherless homes and how those kids often have a higher chance of crime. Only a man is gonna be a boys/girls father. A mom can't fill those shoes.
the only difference between male and female is anatomy. Gender is a social construct that has nothing to do with emotional strength/weaknesses, cognitive abilities, morality, nurture, nothing. We've only established those as a society, but when it comes down to it, none of it matters.
the reason fatherless children have a higher chance of crime is because 1) the father's aren't there for a reason (crime?!) and 2) women are paid less.
the new stereotypical single mom (used to be black woman with a ton of kids on welfare) is the white, upper middle class soccer mom who is successful in her job and still manages to raise healthy, well-rounded children.
any parent who is a full-time parent will be equally nurturing, that makes sense.
You can believe what you want. But its your opinion nothing more. I really don't what your sources are. I guess your entitled to your opinion. But its not based in reality I assure you.
I resent that. My mother's love was MORE THAN ENOUGH for me. And my home is NOT a crisis. Don't talk about stuff you obviously have no REAL knowledge about.
why do gays want to marry gays so badly anyways? its not like your already living with eachother. if its just for civil benefits, your way missing the point of what marriage means.
that's the whole point of this fight. we WANT equal rights and legal stuff and all that, but even MORE IMPORTANT to us is the social, religious, and societal implications and burdens of REAL marriage. we dont want unions because separate is not equal. i want to assure you that we more than most understand what marriage means to us because we cant have it (until now)
I will when you stop shoving your sexual orientation down everyones throats. religion and state? This is about keeping the moral foundation of society intact. And that foundation is family, and it has been brought up by heterosexuals not homosexuals. you will not change the foundation of what family means. And society will stay strong as long as the traditional family unit stays intact. IF you dont like it take it up with God! He'll tell you that your wrong. marriage is for man+women=child
stop shoving YOUR sexual orientation down my throat. its disgusting. it's everywhere.
ARE YOU JOKING?! imagine living in a world where you feel like you're the only one. if THIS is shoving it down your throat, i fear what will happen when you find out that 10% of your family and friends are gay.
homosexuals have been raising families since the beginning of time. DUH.
marriage isnt about raisin children at all - that's what BREEDING is. family comes in all different shapes and sizes.
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it has nothing to do with hate, its about keeping the family unit intact, a loving mother and father and children. Thats the way its supposed to be. Im sorry if you came from crap homes. what did you do to help make it work out? deny God, so you can justify gay marriage? by your logic You pretty much have to because God didnt ordain gay marriage, immorel men did. Actually I should say satan did but you wouldnt like hearing that :P
Stop shoving your God or distorted version of God down everyones throat America should be in theory seperation of church and state. Your no better than Taliban
without california, the "union" wouldn't be shit. we are the state supporting the others that aren't worth a penny. sorry, but it's a fact, california is the fifth economic power of the world. we are what really counts of america.
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it would be a sad day if you had to send off your son or daughter if they were gay to be married to another gay. Its sad and wrong. If that happened to me I wouldnt attend. its not right.
explain how it is wrong. explain what kind of parent wouldn't want to see their children happy. if parents are sad, is because they are being selfish, they are thinking of their happiness as supppose to their children's happiness.
well if your son or daughter IS gay, would you rather them just LIVE with their partner for the rest of their life? or get a civil union? or get married? actually think about it. being gay is a fact, lol, it's not going away, and when your son or daughter come out to you, how are you going to react? what kind of world do you want them to live in?
Then why don't you move to the South where there are tons of homophobes like you. We don't need people like you to infect California with its negative aspect of why marriage should only been between a man and a woman and not the same sex.
Seems that you're parents brainwashed you to believe that its wrong to be gay and that it's a choice. Get a life and stop spreading so much hate in the world.
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heh true, it'll happen eventually. that state is so messed up. well maybe all the gays in the US will migrate there to get (fake Married) then God will burry the state into the ocean. only a matter of time.
and I always thought god was already punishing the rest of the country with tornadoes, bad weather and all that shit. here in california, it is beautiful 24/7, 365 days of the year. just keep on hating, I'm sure you will win a nice spot in hell.
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gwynrangeraal 1 year ago
is this the music homosexuals get fisted up the ass to?
1Volans 2 years ago
Let me ask you guys an honest question that I am genuinely curious about. For those of you that support Gay marriage, would you be opposed to the legalization of polygamous marriage? Suppose there were a proposition in your state that sought to remove the numerical limit of 2 people from the definition of marriage. If the law passes, then groups of any size (up to, lets say, ten or so) can enter into marriage together as a group. Would you vote yes or no for such a proposal? Why or why not?
jjKickerK 2 years ago
I've actually thought a lot about that. i would, however there's so much room to abuse that...like, using the rights gained by marriage to gain certain things.
WIth that said, a lot of couples now use marriage to just gain certain benefits...so i don't know. It's a tough one, but if it was all about love, then yes i would vote for it.
SpeiVecordia 2 years ago
Hmm, I have to say I find that response intriguing. I've asked that question a lot and so far everyone I've talked to has been completely against polygamous marriage. At that point I normally try to use that person's own reasons for opposing polygamy to help them understand how someone can be opposed to gay marriage. So here I'm a little taken aback to be honest. But let me take you a step further. What about incestuous relationships? Or a 16 and 30 year old that claim to be in love?
jjKickerK 2 years ago
Well, regarding underage relationships, we've decided as a society that a person under the age of 18 isn't developed enough to make the adult decision to enter into a legal relationship...much like driving, drinking, renting a car. I agree with that societal structure, so I would be against any movement to legalize sex/marriage involving anyone under 18.
SpeiVecordia 2 years ago
I don't buy that argument for a second. Remember, what "we've decided as a society" is precisely the question at hand when we put an issue to a vote. But the gay rights movement is all about the idea that marriage rights should NOT be up for a vote, because they are civil rights and should be guaranteed by the state. My question is, if society cannot "decide" to deny marriage to a homosexual couple, why is it ok for society to "decide" to deny marriage to a 17 or 16 year old?
jjKickerK 2 years ago
incest is a little different. I think it's interesting because the main argument against it is that it contaminates the gene pool/provides room for mutations or whatever.
it's stupid because while yes, it may do that, we don't have laws on the books making it illegal to drink while pregnant or smoke while pregnant or (get this!) have an abortion.
I don't know why we're so concerned about minor mutations when we're ripping the fetuses out of our bodies anyway.
personally, i find it weird.
SpeiVecordia 2 years ago
Furthermore, I think you know as well as I do that there is no sudden burst of insight, wisdom, or decision making ability that one experiences on his or her 18th birthday. Honest question: do you really see that much difference between the ages of 18, 17, and 16? In my experience, its all about the person. I've met 15 year olds that are much more responsible and competent than some 18 year olds, and I've also met 20 year olds that take absolutely no personal responsibility for themselves.
jjKickerK 2 years ago
well, in response to the age question, i suppose that if we find a way to accurately measure a person's maturity in all fairness, then we might change the way we decide that factor, but until then, we need something like an age to determine that. I think moreso than anything it's a mindset, and coupled with everything else you can do when you turn 18, it makes sense to me.
SpeiVecordia 2 years ago
With regard to incest, I think you misunderstand the historical social attitude toward these relationships. While its true that an incestuous relationship makes the couple more likely to have birth defects, so do a lot of other activities, as you point out. In fact, many normal couples are at increased risk of these defects simply based on family medical history. We would never question those marriages. So I think for your position to be consistent you would have to support incest marriage.
jjKickerK 2 years ago
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Ron Paul on gay marriage (Dr. Paul says yes and even wins the Values Summit GOP Straw Poll!)
/watch?v=l1gzs27HswQ on gay marriage statement
/watch?v=ug1nZSI_fsA Values Straw Poll result conservation
Vote Ron Paul, President 2012! -- The anti-war candidate -- and champion of the Constitution!
vechorik 4 months ago
@jjKickerK To be honest, I have no problem with polygamy. It's not for me, but why should I stop someone else from doing it?
GiraffeJumper2008 10 months ago
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billsebas 8 months ago
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billsebas 8 months ago
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billsebas 8 months ago
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@jjKickerK Marriage to multiple people does not apply to this argument. Here's why it lies outside the bounds of a conversation about "equality": In the old traditional way, a man has the right to marry a woman. To be equal, a woman should have that right too. (Switch all the genders in that equation, and it works the same.) A man who wants to marry two people can't point to another man with that right and claim inequality. We are fighting for marriage "equality." That's all.
billsebas 8 months ago
@jjKickerK Marriage to multiple people does not apply to this argument. Here's why it lies outside the bounds of a conversation about "equality": In the old traditional way, a man has the right to marry a woman. To be equal, a woman should have that right too. (Switch all the genders in that equation, and it works the same.) A man who wants to marry two people can't point to another man with that right and claim inequality. We are fighting for marriage "equality." That's all.
billsebas 8 months ago
Bahahahah
k8eeebear 2 years ago
wow, what a powerful msg
prop 8 is insane how come people get to vote on other peoples rights to marry the person they love.. so stupid.
Kayla8090 2 years ago 3
An important and powerful commercial. I know that this ad did a lot to change hearts. Making Prop HATE(8) results as close as it was.
tanyasloan 2 years ago
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haha fags....
sammyjs1983 2 years ago
OMG this is soo cool. The groom is my acting teacher from Cal State University Fullerton. His name is Logan Sledge, exceptional acting teacher.
chunkyFLOVER 2 years ago 2
They need to show a commerical of a man and a little boy trying to get married and see if this has the same affect.
hypermonkey24 3 years ago
what are you saying?
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
this commercial was one of the dumbest to run this election cycle. First of all, what's the matter? Can't show two lesbians trying to get "married" and tripping over soda pop cans? Or two gays?
Obviously that is not honest advertising. Playing on sympathies that don't even apply, because if we had seen the real thing, the ad would not work. Still, it didn't work. That's why it was such a dumb ad.
protestblowback 3 years ago
the message is to target straight people not for gay people.... this commercial is smart.... the reason why they put a male and a female not same sex is so people who r not homosexuals can relate to what the message is saying... what if you can't (regardless if ur a male marrying a female, vice-versa) cannot marry the person you love the most
badluck13b 3 years ago
Enough is enough! Only the facts will answer everyone's questions and opinions. Please view the facts at: .com/watch?v=4JZIJnJWZBQ
P.S. Very nice analogy. Bravo!
LiluBob 3 years ago
I agree with the video.Gays and Lesbians are humans,just like us.We should give everyone the chance to marry and find love.
SkyPirateSweetie 3 years ago
I am proud to say that I am straight-against-8.
I've raised two sons who are also straight. They are voting-age and they are also voting against California's prop. 8. I have taught them well. Equality for all! =)
I'm also proud to say that I have raised my sons in such a way that if had in fact been gay, they know that early on they would not have a problem "coming out". That's the way it should be.
VronRN2 3 years ago 2
thank you. you give me hope and I would be honored to have a parent like you -- Your sons are two very lucky guys!
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
This is absolutely unfair. Homosexuals have a long line of lawyers and politicians for them; they always focus on being respected, and if a finger is raised that shows any line of disrespect, i.e not allowing them to be married in a Christian church because it goes against the teachings, homosexuals have both politicians and, again, lawyers, as well as protests backing them up- publicly hanging the group or individual. It is like a form of bullying; and I'm sick of it.
XaviersSecretary 3 years ago
if we had equality we wouldn't need all that.
if people didn't use the word "gay" to mean stupid, or shoot us for asking to be our valentine, or go to our marriages and tell us that homosexuality is wrong, we wouldn't need it.
(btw, im not forcing my marriage on any church and neither is anyone else)
im sick of people like you who talk about the gay lobby. YOU KNOW WHY WE HAVE A GAY LOBBY?! because views still haven't changed, ignorance still exists, and we need people to fight for us. DUH
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
(reply to SpeiVecordia)
So we are in a paradox, good sir. Perhaps we are two opposite groups that resemble two magnets facing eachother on the same side, and it is impossible for us to connect.
I'm stating it a paradox because it is impossible for people to be kind to those that beat the hammer of rights, yet continue to beat it in places like San Francisco, Connecticut and Massachusetts where they are given the same rights.
XaviersSecretary 3 years ago
but it's a process? maybe i'm not understanding what you're saying, but from now until we have full equality across this country (including acceptance/tolerance from the masses) and don't have to worry about being discriminated against, we're going to have a gay lobby and lawyers etc?
You know that Christians and blacks and everyone else ALSO have lobbies and lawyers that only work for them, right?
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
meaning?
is it not correct to fight for equal rights?
krphl31 3 years ago
Defining gay marriage restricts religious liberty (In Massachusetts Catholic charities can't adopt out as their doctrine is "discriminatory") and restricts parental rights (In Massachusetts, homosexual fairy tales were taught as equal treatment without parental authority). I want to protect my kids against what I, as a parent, feel is morally wrong. What about my rights? Why take over the definition of marriage? Domestic partnerships give gays ALL of the same rights. Marriage isn't a right.
beezers99 3 years ago
1. Domestic partnerships DO NOT give all the same rights. period.
2. if you think it's wrong, then take your kid out of the school system. it's the same reason white supremicists home school their kids--so they can keep filling their heads with the same ignorance. it's brainwashing. you have to let your kids decide for themselves. By teaching things like that in public school, it is opening up room for discussion. Isn't that what democracy is about?
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
These "yes on 8" folks and their tactic using the school system to instill fear is reprehensible.
What's wrong with the "King and King" story? It's the truth and it's not going away even if Prop. 8 passes. There will still be children raised by gay couples. There will still be children who are gay. It's about time we start recognizing that and stop the prejudice. Start teaching that it is OK to be who you. This world would be a much better place.
VronRN2 3 years ago 5
theres nothing in the bible that says homosexuality is wrong. you've been force-fed lies and, as i did earlier in my life, i believed them all.
put yourself in my position. god made me the way i am. all i want is for people to treat me as equal. you and i both know that marriage is what adults view as equal. it is what makes you adult. it legitimizes everything.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
I agree with all of your comments, SpeiVecordia.
Using the Bible is just another tactic from the right-wing bigots to try and justify or excuse their hateful beliefs.
You are correct.. God made you the way you are. You should be treated equally! =)
VronRN2 3 years ago 3
sry (damn character counts!).
also, the catholic church IS being discriminatory. They're putting their own beliefs above the welfare of children?
it would be the same as you saying you shouldnt adopt out to a straight jewish couple or that you shouldn't give to an AIDS organization.
beezers, we all have to live in this world. please don't break my heart, because I will remember you. all i ask is for you to remember me.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
Yes, SpeiVecordia.. excellent point.
I can't believe that the Catholic church shut down their adoption program. How sad.. they would rather see children shuffled between foster homes than being adopted by a loving gay couple. How sad.
VronRN2 3 years ago 2
the catholic church has unfortunately lost sight of its original mission ..to care fore the needy ...they have just abandoned their duties ,,,i'm catholic and i know that jesus wud hav been horrified.
krphl31 3 years ago
Companionship is a necessity for all humans since we are social creatures.
Denying a person the right to love is as inhumane as denying a starving person food. We need it to survive and to live a healthy, happy life.
hungryhungryhipho 3 years ago 3
I love the music!! Is it available commercially?
makemelaf247 3 years ago 2
This is such a moving depiction...........hopefully all the narrow minded will be able to relate
MEVJR1 3 years ago
This ad is a very true representation of the struggle that gay people face every day. If the USA recognized gay marriage it would be a MAJOR step forward for us and the rest of the industrialized world.
Mvalong 3 years ago
oddly, i saw this on nickelodeon! Totally agree with you all.
hungryhungryhipho 3 years ago
we're all entitled to the right to love. if a person is against gay marraige, here's a simple solution, DON'T GET ONE. I don't understand how people can deny a person happiness and love. That's messed up.
hungryhungryhipho 3 years ago 3
To everyone with the "The purpose of marriage is to have children" argument:
Are you saying infertile people shouldn't be able to marry either?
tehdarkcloud 3 years ago 2
I agree with you. According to people against it who think that "marriage is about having a family: man, women, children", a man can't marry a woman who is infertile, or vice-versa. Would you deny their rights too?
What about elderly people who stay single throughout their lives now marry? Are you saying that they can't marry because they are unable to have children?
This is ludicrous. I'm not homosexual, but I don't see what's wrong about gay marriage. They're happy and it doesn't bother me.
horselv261 3 years ago 3
Now I am a Christian that goes to church once a week, every week. I really think what people want to do, let them. Would you really want to see someone die unloved and alone? I know I wouldn't. I am not taking a side but really, does it matter what other people choose? Everyone has a choice to make and let themselves make it not the rest of the world. Stand up for what you believe!!!
PianoMann18 3 years ago 3
Can you really put yourself in her shoes. What happens if you couldnt get married, what happened if everyone was against you, even your state or country. It is really sad that countries like Spain and South Africa makes it legal for gay and lesbian couples to marry, but not in the US. Furthermore, California is not the first state to make it legal, Massachussetts made it legal in 2000. We dont want just a wedding. In getting this passed in November, we will have full rights.
jakethecub 3 years ago 2
There is always going to be hate and there will always be those who use religion as a brainwashing mechanism to spread their hatred. Like in so many ways in history, we all learn to rise above.
I am so proud of California, my former home. What I cannot understand is why so many people from outside California are trying so hard to fight this. The Supreme Court ruled, and that should be it. If you don't like what is legal in California, then don't live there.
n4slyf 3 years ago
yay i am proud of california.
niamtxiv 3 years ago 2
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This ad is gross. Are we going to start letting animals and people marry now?
lukewarmlake 3 years ago
obviously not because animals cannot consent to being married. neither can a 5 year old. thats why those groups will never be able to marry an adult.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
How can you make that jump? It is amazing how whenever homosexuality comes up, bestiality is placed in the same category. Sex (excluding rape) or Marriage is something that requires consent. Therefore, your statement makes no sense.
Candinae01 3 years ago 4
God being 21 years old doesn't make you much mature with the comment you just posted. Did your parents brainwash you to make you believe that a gay person marries an animal, when in reality probably most of those people who have sex with animals might happen to be straight.
Don't compare being gay to something like beastility because its TWO different things. Why don't you post a comment that is a little more mature than what you put here 2 months ago.
VideoGamerJunkie 3 years ago 8
Why not compare it with beastility? Both acts are unnatural. On what moral basis can you say one act is O.K. and the other isn't?
Their have been gays since the beginning of time I'm sure. The Greeks notorious for homosexual relationships. Yet even they were married to women.
hypermonkey26 3 years ago
Being gay is not unnatural you're just as narrow minded as the people who go around holding signs that say "GOD HATES FAGS". Bestiality is illegal, which means its wrong to have sex with an animal.
If you consider gay marriage as illegal and wrong and unnatural you deserve to be alone in life. Nobody can help being who they are, you don't choose to be gay. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says "I think I'll be gay today and be straight tomorrow" Having sex with an animal is a choice.
VideoGamerJunkie 3 years ago 4
1. Gay marriages were illegal at one time now their not. Mentally challenged people were lawfully murdered in Nazi Germany. There is such a thing as a bad law.
2. I consider homosexuality wrong out of a biblical perspective.
3. Our country was founded on Judeo Christian assumptions.
4. Their is no scientific evidence that people are born gay. So I don't classify that behavior different than beastiality.
hypermonkey26 3 years ago
Right there with the whole biblical perspective shows that you're willing to believe some kind of fairy tale of a book that tells you homosexuality is wrong. Yet nobody knows from God's actual mouth if it was wrong, the bible has been passed down century to century and its been rewritten so many times it's no longer what God said in his true words so it's pretty much a book that is not true at all.
VideoGamerJunkie 3 years ago 2
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1. People who believe in God take a moral stance. Religion has had influence on the forming of our country.
2. I ain't narrowminded, I just need objective facts on the matter. Currently, their is no scientific evidence that people are unwillingly gay.
3. I do think for myself. You just don't like my conclusions.
4. By what moral standard do you suggest that because animals can't give consent prohibits them from having sex with humans? I am curious.
hypermonkey26 3 years ago
Pretty much religion has made the biggest mistake with electing George W. Bush as our President.
Watch that video as the facts are pretty much straight forward and to the point. There is evidence you just don't realize it because you don't understand what's already been studied.
Again you don't think for yourself because you are allowing religion to make the decisions for you, you're just pushed more into making the decision for yourself.
VideoGamerJunkie 3 years ago
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Blah, blah, blah religions blinds me same old sound bite. 90 percent of the world believes in God and were all unreasonable. Righhht. Let the 5-10 percent of athiests do all the thinking and decision making because they have incredible insight into humanity and morality and possess logic to match it.
It's just lame to accuse me of being a blind follower of a man made religion. Did it ever occur to you that I may have had some kind of experience with God that reinforces my views?
hypermonkey26 3 years ago
The whole thing about animals having sex with humans has no similarity between gay men, yet you put both being gay and having sex with animals as the same group. Shows how very little you know about that.
If you think just because gays and lesbians are trying to have the opportunity to get married is the same thing as animals having sex with humans then you are really fucked in the head. Lots of people are already telling you that this has nothing to do with animals having sex with people.
VideoGamerJunkie 3 years ago 5
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I did watch that video. I can direct you to videos of former homosexuals who changed and now live heterosexual lifes. I know I know their bias.....much like that video.
I need concrete, factual evidence, not some secular persons OPINION on the matter.
In the hisory of the world marriages among same sex couples never occured. Now all of sudden we are to recognize a healthy practice that was unheard of until now?
I am still waiting for a moral standard suggesting animal sex is wrong?
hypermonkey26 3 years ago
I don't really believe former homosexuals, that had to be a lot of brainwashing to make them believe that they are straight. They might "THINK" of themselves as straight but those homosexual feelings are always going to be there no matter how much they pretend that it's not.
Also I don't think some religion is going to play any kind of part in if California will determine if same sex people can marry. No matter how high Fred Phelps raises his "Fags Must Die!" sign he will never win.
VideoGamerJunkie 3 years ago 3
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1. You don't believe their are former homsexuals...so your denying personal testimonies without any evidence to back up your belief? You seem to know the psychology of gays or former gays so well...I am just curious as to where you get your insight into every individuals brain.
2. The crazy RIGHT supremist groups do not represent Christianity in its entirety. I know its convenient for you to lump everybody together, but you error in doing so.
hypermonkey26 3 years ago
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As far as California legislature, I agree with you. Religion will not be a factor. The issue is changing the definition of marriage and granting rights that were never spelled out in the constitution.
hypermonkey26 3 years ago
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BTW, this bride is hot as hell. Whoever made this commercial chose her wisely.
hypermonkey26 3 years ago
Just to comment on your second point, I don't think too many people, given the choice, would choose to be gay. The results, depending on where you live, can be dangerous if not deadly. I do believe that people choose to be themselves or live a lie and hopefully we will see a day where gays, lesbians, straight, bisexual, transgendered can all live as themselves without fear of discrimination, reject and so on.
binxis2cute 3 years ago
Nobody wants to be persecuted. Nobody wants to be treated like crap. However, we treat pedophiles like outcastes in our society. Should this change? I am not directly relating child molestation and gayness but I am making the point that social pressure on some things MUST always exist.
hypermonkey26 3 years ago
haha, well pedophilia and child molestation are different things. I think that pedophilia is a natural sexual urge. However, acting on that urge means that you have to molest children, which I am (obviously) completely against and think is disgusting. We as a society have decided that people under the age of 18 are not capable of making their own decisions when it comes to sex, and i think it should stay that way. I dont think that pedophiles should be outcasts, just the ones who act on it.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
Also if you believe that people are not born gay and that they CHOOSE to be straight maybe your narrow mind should go and watch this video on YouTube called "Homosexuality: Is It A Choice? [For the Bible Tells Me So]"
Then you'll believe that your so called "Bible" will tell you that people choose to be gay when in reality they can be proven wrong with science, so before you state 4. on your little list is true go do some research before making assumptions.
VideoGamerJunkie 3 years ago 2
I feel sorry that you're 28 years old and still believe that being gay is a choice and that its unnatural to be gay, bet your parents fucked you up good to make you believe some bullshit like that.
VideoGamerJunkie 3 years ago 3
At 28 years old, a person should be thinking for themselves. Even if my parents screwed me up it is my responsibility to grow up and figure out things for myself. Disagreeing with you doesn't make me a brainwashed, horrible person.
You have no basis of any kind to tell me what I believe is bullcrap.
hypermonkey26 3 years ago
And you grew up as a homophobe believing that gay people marry animals when someone stated on these comments that animals don't have power of choice.
Plus you never really figured things out for yourself because you're saying the bible is choosing what you need to believe in life.
A person who is to figure things out in their life is someone who is not going to read a book and say "Oh I think homosexuality is wrong because the Bible tells me so" For once think for yourself and not the Bible.
VideoGamerJunkie 3 years ago 2
Animals don't have the power of choice. Humans do. You cannot compare a human- gay or straight to an animal. That's just terrible, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
mnang86 3 years ago
For some reason, all the people who are against gay marriage, come to this conclusion....and they think we're crazy! I have absolutely no desire to marry my dog or gecko, thanks!
binxis2cute 3 years ago
I'm so happy that Cali is now allowing same sex marriage. My best friend is gay and he can finally be with the person he loves legally. Marriage is not just about religion it's about being with the one you love and having the civil rights that go along with it. And for all of you who bash gays/lesbians/bis, I feel sorry for you because God wants you to love everyone it is not your place to pass down judgement
LadyAmara16 3 years ago 8
i wish everyone thought as you do!!
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
I am sure you do! Heaven forbid people have a difference of opinion.
adlgadfg 3 years ago
The hate being expressed here is not such a bad thing. It shows reasonable people just how ugly hate really is.
Steveningen 3 years ago 4
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All fucking gay's must burn in hell, fucking wasting oxygen.
I agree with elveangels
GreenWoods55 3 years ago
First learn how to speak english, then you can argue your point. In my mind you are the waste of oxygen and you don't even deserve to get your voice heard because you don't matter. You're scared and alone and I feel sorry for you....
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
In other words, to make this more clear to understand:
Gay people are destined to have one of the greatest spot in hell, being RAPE by the fucking DEVIL!!!! Hahahahahahah, I'm cracking up, bitches. The hatred won't stop, trust me.
I'm sure they can handle pain and suffering by getting fucked, but hell is different.
What good is a car if it won't move? That's exactly what a gay man is.
ElveAngels 3 years ago
grow up -- you already know all your counterarguments so i'm not going to waste my time and explain it to you.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
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What good does it bring fucking another man by the ass?
Kissing your own kind?
Loving your own kind?
When men and womans have always been destined to have childrens, family, love, getting remembered, giving life.
The only thing that will end this is not putting a fucking comment on Youtube expressing your opinion, the only thing that will stop this is fucking annihilating all you fucking waste of life, queers out there.
The best thing you could do in your life is go to jail and get pleasure
ElveAngels 3 years ago
your church still prohibits gay marriage i suppose? or is the decision in california affecting the norms of your church?
civil rights have nothing,NOTHING to do with religion. the foundation of society is indeed family, and the face of family is as diverse as my heritage, as the colors in the universe. but mariage isn't the foundation of society. people that use those 2 concepts (family and marriage) interchangeably have no idea what they mean.
ImaSumac4ever 3 years ago 6
it will when God comes down and fixes everything. do you think the world will live in wickedness and evil forever? if my children choose to be gay that is there choice, but for children who dont listen to there parents are unwise children. are you saying parents dont know whats best for there children? if so your not a responsible parent and shouldnt have children
waltherg22 3 years ago
i dont get why you have to be so hateful.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
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marriage is most importantly about concieving and raising children. you cant do that in a gay marriage because it is unnatural. marriage is for joining a man and women because only they can be joined properly, gays only shove stuff up there asses.
waltherg22 3 years ago
And what of infertile couples or couples that don't want children......or how about the thousands of children in foster care? And my wife and I are quite happy raising our 7 month old son so yes, gays can raise families.
binxis2cute 3 years ago 3
Yeah but kids deserve a mother and a father. That is the whole point. Redefining marriage is redifining the family unit and structure...it's an unintended consequence. Even the Greeks did not marry their boy lovers and kept their wifes at home. They understood the purpose of marriage.
hypermonkey26 3 years ago
That's your opinion. I don't understand why people get all up in arms about things that don't concern them. If you don't like same-sex marriages, don't marry someone of the same sex.
binxis2cute 3 years ago 5
Yes that also isn't ideal. But that is a reality. What I am saying is the ideal is being changed. Of course we can lower the standard but why? Marriage has been recognized by all cultures for thousands of years as a bond between a man and wife for the purpose of children and a family. There have always been orphans but that is a problem too.
The point is if marriage is legal all americans are forced to swallow the gay agenda and taught that this is an acceptable lifestyle.
hypermonkey24 3 years ago
the only good home for a child is a loving home. You can have a mother and a father and be in the most dangerous household in the world. The emphasis on straight, two-parent homes has destroyed the lives of millions of children who would have been better off in a loving, gay or one-parent household (or nontraditional like grandparents etc). We need to come together and realize that the only good home for a kid is a loving one, no matter who the parent(s) is.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
"The emphasis on straight, two-parent homes has destroyed the lives of millions of children who would have been better off in a loving, gay or one-parent household "
This needs to be backed up by evidence. I do agree better with a gay good parent than abusive straight parents. Of course those kinda parents aren't really parents at all. Yes kids need love..but they need a male and female role model to model love to them for the maximum benefit. Kids need that. Why is this so hard ?
hypermonkey24 3 years ago
it was a general statement that only needs common sense. "millions" really isn't that many when u think about.
i agree that role models are important, and that to have different role models is important too. But "maximum benefit" is a stupid way to put it. There's no way to measure "maximum benefit," and i believe that a loving home is a loving home is a loving home. There's no such thing as degrees of loving. If you love 'em, and you raise 'em well, that's all that can be achieved.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
(continuing from my 1st post)
Why is that so hard to understand?
Being attracted to a 3 year old undevoloped girl/boy is not normal. That isn't an urge. A teenager is a little different (as they are developing). And you emphasize my point that it is acting on an impulse is not always the best decision. If pedophiles must not act on an impulse gays could do the same. Now is that cruel? Well, is it cruel for a pedophile to not act out on his/her basic urges? Think about it.
hypermonkey24 3 years ago
haha, it's only not normal b/c most people don't have those urges. I don't and you don't, but just put yourself in the position of someone who does?
also, you missed my point that we regulate decision making. humans under the age of 18 can't make decisions because they're developing. that obviously doesn't apply to two consenting gay adults. it's not about comparing them, it's about taking each case on its own. its cruel to not allow a pedophile to act out, but that's how it has to be.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
BTW,
What is a bigger dilemma is single mothers raising kids on their own. Fatherless homes are a crisis. Sometimes a moms love simply isn't enough. Kids need a strong masculine figure in the home. Women these days think that they alone can do it all. Can't blame them really as their sex partners are losers.
hypermonkey24 3 years ago
fatherless homes are only a crisis because we don't pay women enough and they can't support their children. If we equalized the pay scales, then women could afford to raise their children.
you can't even see your own sexism. "kids need a strong masculine figure in the home." "strength" has nothing to do with masculinity, and a child can learn strength from anyone, that person doesn't need to be sleeping with the mother/father.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
You have no idea. IT isn't sexism. You really don't understand the differences between a male and a female. Please do your studies about fatherless homes and how those kids often have a higher chance of crime. Only a man is gonna be a boys/girls father. A mom can't fill those shoes.
hypermonkey24 3 years ago
the only difference between male and female is anatomy. Gender is a social construct that has nothing to do with emotional strength/weaknesses, cognitive abilities, morality, nurture, nothing. We've only established those as a society, but when it comes down to it, none of it matters.
the reason fatherless children have a higher chance of crime is because 1) the father's aren't there for a reason (crime?!) and 2) women are paid less.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
"the only difference between male and female is anatomy"
This is precisely your ignorance. There no longer needs to be a discussion because you have just contradicted the professional world.
Thanks for playing.
hypermonkey24 3 years ago
BTW,
women can be strong too. That has nothing to do with the dynamics of a family.
Yeah, yeah, yeah women need to be payed more...or they can stay home and nurture their kids and be a full time mom. Now theres an idea.
hypermonkey24 3 years ago
the new stereotypical single mom (used to be black woman with a ton of kids on welfare) is the white, upper middle class soccer mom who is successful in her job and still manages to raise healthy, well-rounded children.
any parent who is a full-time parent will be equally nurturing, that makes sense.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
You can believe what you want. But its your opinion nothing more. I really don't what your sources are. I guess your entitled to your opinion. But its not based in reality I assure you.
hypermonkey24 3 years ago
I resent that. My mother's love was MORE THAN ENOUGH for me. And my home is NOT a crisis. Don't talk about stuff you obviously have no REAL knowledge about.
CynicalPuppeteer 2 years ago
For you fine.
Bit the statistics show that single parent homes INCREASES the chances that the kid will be a dilinquent.
I DO KNOW WHAT I"M TALKING ABOUT.
And there are studies to back my claims.
hypermonkey24 2 years ago
sorry you feel that way because we're not going anywhere. if you believe in god you're probably going to hell.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
why do gays want to marry gays so badly anyways? its not like your already living with eachother. if its just for civil benefits, your way missing the point of what marriage means.
waltherg22 3 years ago
i really hope you'll read what I am writing.
that's the whole point of this fight. we WANT equal rights and legal stuff and all that, but even MORE IMPORTANT to us is the social, religious, and societal implications and burdens of REAL marriage. we dont want unions because separate is not equal. i want to assure you that we more than most understand what marriage means to us because we cant have it (until now)
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
I will when you stop shoving your sexual orientation down everyones throats. religion and state? This is about keeping the moral foundation of society intact. And that foundation is family, and it has been brought up by heterosexuals not homosexuals. you will not change the foundation of what family means. And society will stay strong as long as the traditional family unit stays intact. IF you dont like it take it up with God! He'll tell you that your wrong. marriage is for man+women=child
waltherg22 3 years ago
stop shoving YOUR sexual orientation down my throat. its disgusting. it's everywhere.
ARE YOU JOKING?! imagine living in a world where you feel like you're the only one. if THIS is shoving it down your throat, i fear what will happen when you find out that 10% of your family and friends are gay.
homosexuals have been raising families since the beginning of time. DUH.
marriage isnt about raisin children at all - that's what BREEDING is. family comes in all different shapes and sizes.
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
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it has nothing to do with hate, its about keeping the family unit intact, a loving mother and father and children. Thats the way its supposed to be. Im sorry if you came from crap homes. what did you do to help make it work out? deny God, so you can justify gay marriage? by your logic You pretty much have to because God didnt ordain gay marriage, immorel men did. Actually I should say satan did but you wouldnt like hearing that :P
waltherg22 3 years ago
waltherg22
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Stop shoving your God or distorted version of God down everyones throat America should be in theory seperation of church and state. Your no better than Taliban
ArizonaMtKingsnake 3 years ago 4
without california, the "union" wouldn't be shit. we are the state supporting the others that aren't worth a penny. sorry, but it's a fact, california is the fifth economic power of the world. we are what really counts of america.
ImaSumac4ever 3 years ago 2
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it would be a sad day if you had to send off your son or daughter if they were gay to be married to another gay. Its sad and wrong. If that happened to me I wouldnt attend. its not right.
waltherg22 3 years ago
explain how it is wrong. explain what kind of parent wouldn't want to see their children happy. if parents are sad, is because they are being selfish, they are thinking of their happiness as supppose to their children's happiness.
ImaSumac4ever 3 years ago 4
well if your son or daughter IS gay, would you rather them just LIVE with their partner for the rest of their life? or get a civil union? or get married? actually think about it. being gay is a fact, lol, it's not going away, and when your son or daughter come out to you, how are you going to react? what kind of world do you want them to live in?
SpeiVecordia 3 years ago
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God, I'm embarrased to live in California
forestengr 3 years ago
Then why don't you move to the South where there are tons of homophobes like you. We don't need people like you to infect California with its negative aspect of why marriage should only been between a man and a woman and not the same sex.
Seems that you're parents brainwashed you to believe that its wrong to be gay and that it's a choice. Get a life and stop spreading so much hate in the world.
VideoGamerJunkie 3 years ago 11
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Y0urMamaGaveMeHerpez Filthy queers. California should be kicked out of the fucking union and nuked.
DEATH TO ALL FAGGOTS!!!!
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Are you a politician ,judge in Florida?
ArizonaMtKingsnake 3 years ago
lol.
ImaSumac4ever 3 years ago
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It's only a matter of time until California slides into the fucking ocean...
amr857 3 years ago
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heh true, it'll happen eventually. that state is so messed up. well maybe all the gays in the US will migrate there to get (fake Married) then God will burry the state into the ocean. only a matter of time.
waltherg22 3 years ago
and I always thought god was already punishing the rest of the country with tornadoes, bad weather and all that shit. here in california, it is beautiful 24/7, 365 days of the year. just keep on hating, I'm sure you will win a nice spot in hell.
ImaSumac4ever 3 years ago
I'd really like to see you say that to my face, I'll kick the shit out of you
schmeltz 3 years ago 3
Same sex marriage is officially legal in California by the way. =]
The Supreme Court of California overturned the ban TODAY.
saraisskinny 3 years ago 8
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queers suck.... anything
mike1111qq 3 years ago
You ass.you dont care about anyone but yourself,do you?I hope you die a slow painful death!
SkyPirateSweetie 3 years ago
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Everything seemed perfect! A Man, a Woman, whats the problem?
TimothyRed1990 4 years ago
your republican brain..thats the problem!
Abcflc 3 years ago 5
I'm a democrat.
What makes you think I'm republican?
TimothyRed1990 3 years ago
OH I don't know...maybe its the fact that you wont allow other human beings to have the same rights as you just because they are different?
Abcflc 3 years ago
What are you talking about??
TimothyRed1990 3 years ago
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EVERYONE has the same rights. We ALL have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex.
compactc9 3 years ago
Ugh.You Pig!
SkyPirateSweetie 3 years ago