middle fork 0001

[Tinamelbourne]

I agree highwoodmts. They allowed the calf to suffer for an additional six minutes, if not longer, so they could document that the animal was still alive when being eaten by wolves. Wolves eat to survive.... but a human, who is suppose to have decency and compassion, allows the animal to sit there and suffer for a fn video.

[highwoodmts]

I think it is disgusting that you leave this calf suffering for over 6 minutes besides the time it had already suffered while you went to get your video camera, just so you could 'document' the predation. Yes, it happened, by why allow the poor thing to continue to suffer. Seems cruel to me.

[Mont556n]

Wolves are bad news. In every state they are now found in, the are destroying game herds and domestic livestock at an ever increasing rate. Do not EVER let those environmentalists plant wolves in your area. You will be sorry in the wrong run.

[BruceH59]

It takes a Michael Vic wannabe to support wolves.

[NocturnalAngel77]

@coyotedust I have just made a formal complaint with Youtube and sent every message you have sent subsequent to my asking you to discontinue contact with me. You should receive a message shortly. Have a nice day and enjoy finding something better to do with your time. Good bye.

[coyotedust]

This is the typical way a wolf kills by consumption. They eat their victims alive, and don't kill them outfight like cougars and bears. It's a horrific way to die. Many books including The Wolves of North America document 19th Century accounts of bison survivors roaming the plains with hindquarters eaten out of them.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 My god. Did you listen to the entire report? The heifer or steer was killed by consumption, by having his anus eaten out, that's how wolves kill. They take down a 6-point bull elk, chew off it's noce, eat it's anus, and many of them have been photographed without being eaten. Your groups are not the only ones documenting this disaster. We have people like one older gentleman with arthritis snowshoeing into take pictures of the sport-killing. Yes they do kill for fun!

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 Do you approve of habituated Mexican Wolves, raised in captivity by Ted Turner at his Ladder Ranch for example, as being a scientific way to use the ESA? You do know that Ted Turner wants to end all ranching, open grazing, along with DOW, and the USFWS? Undue Burden would be a good DVD for you to watch, since I don't think you will look up the links I provided.

There's a lot of research out there.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 I've been paying close attention to that program. The Mexican Wolves have been studied extensively and many were found to have their gene pool diluted with coyotes, even feral dogs.

I'm talking about the Occidenitalius sub-species you probably were involved in tagging, and monitoring with DOW.

[NocturnalAngel77]

@coyotedust You sound like a conspiracy theorist. I have done my homework and know almost everything there is to know about wolves, their habitats and the people who want them dead. Not even the most left wing liberal would want wolves in every state as it would disrupt their precious Eco-system. Perhaps you should do *your* homework and take a look at it from another point of view so as not to seem so pedantic.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 How are they benefiing the ecosystems?

[NocturnalAngel77]

@coyotedust How do wolves benefit the Ecosystem? If that is your question then it is painfully obvious that it is not I that hasn't done my homework. However, if you are referring to how Conservationists are trying to benefit the Ecosystem by introducing wolves into unfamiliar environments, then you misunderstood my reply. What I stated in my previous comment was that I can not imagine anyone who values themselves a lover of animals pushing wolves into every state where they would be threatened.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 So how do they help the ecosystem? I already know what your answer is going to be.

[NocturnalAngel77]

@coyotedust You already know the answer because it is stone cold FACT. That begs the question, why ask it in the first place? You are going to argue that they do not help the ecosystem and quite frankly, that is one of the most ludicrous things I have seen written/asked on this board. You can can to justify the slaughter of an animal that is doing nothing but what you and I do, surviving. But if one of the two of you is a monster...guess what my answer is going to be to this one...

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 Answer the question? How? How do they benefit other wildlife?

[NocturnalAngel77]

@coyotedust You didn't know the answer. First of all, ALL wildlife balances the ecosystem. Any grade school child is privy to that. Even those pesky mosquitoes that we wish that we could eradicate from the Earth, we can not because it would greatly depreciate the bat population and in turn many other animals would suffer. Wolf extinction would shatter the population of nearly all large ungulates. Deer, elk, bison, caribou etc. Small animals - rabbits hares, raccoons, mice etc - if hunting alone.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 okay. Sounds like the generic propoganda. You left out the riparian habitats, song birds, willows, and beavers in Yellowstone. What would your opinion be if you knew that 2/3 of the wolves dumped illegally into your state are infected with the deadly Echinococcus Granulosus parasitic tapeworm? How would you feel, if your OWN State Fish and Game Agency hid this information from the public, knowing it can spread to humans?

Have you heard of Will Graves?

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 How are these wolves being threatened with extinction. Did you learn that from DOW also. In the elementary schools, who is providing this information to the children?

[NocturnalAngel77]

@coyotedust Oh this is getting almost laughable. If there is one thing I am not guilty of, it is "general propaganda". Those are factual, monitored hunting eating habits of wolves in the wild. As for "leaving out" a few of the wolves prey, you may want to take into consideration the character limit of the comment box.

As for your comment on the wolves being "dumped" and "infected"; if I am guilty of propaganda, are guilty of spewing conspiracy theories. As for that, we can agree to disagree.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 You were probably working for DOW. If you were involved in tagging I would like to know. This is important to our legislatures.

[NocturnalAngel77]

@coyotedust There are other organisations not affiliated with Defenders of Wildlife. You are clearly ignorant of anything but ONE single organisation and yet you claim that others are getting their information from Wikipedia? I find that to be both a win a my column and an end to the discussion considering you have just proven that you are no longer a worthy conservationist. 

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 DOW is the one that I'm interested in since they were working with USFWS, prior to Wolf Introduction, and our IDFG. That's why I'm interested in your experience, years, and what state you were conducting research in.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 You didn't win the discussion, you chose to quit. There is a difference.

[NocturnalAngel77]

@coyotedust I fear that I may have given you a bit too much attention. The difference is, I have a husband and children whom, for the rest of my day needed more of my attention than a pedantic know-it-all who begs for attention to his conspiracy theories. I made my point and since you can not see things from another side, I do not wish to converse with you as I have a family that is infinitely more important to me. Good day.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 Have you ever heard of the Constitution?

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 I feel like I have given you a "bit" too much homework. You haven't answered one of my questions concerning your involvement with perpetuating this disaster. All of us that live here work endless hours, with NO pay to help our friends and neighbors. Do you realize that children in Catron County where habituated cross bred Mexican wolves are raised, are suffereing from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder?

How would you feel as a "mother?"

[NocturnalAngel77]

@coyotedust If the children are suffering from ANY disorder, it is the parents fault for speaking about whatever livestock might have been killed or whatever "disaster" the parents think is going on, if front of the children. How disgusting of the parents to abuse their children in such a way. It takes a very selfish person to bring a child into this just to prove their point because they didn't like the way something was done. I am done with your kind. You are hereby blocked.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 These are children that have seen their "pets" killed in their front yards!!! One little 6 year old girl came home and her beloved horse was chased in the corral by their house and consumed. These are "kids" that SEE the blood and guts.

[coyotedust]

@coyotedust Typical example of a perons who can't stand up to the FACTS!

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 Typical City Girl. Ranch kids TAKE CARE of their livestock, and pets. They are outside, and often are the ones that see the attacks, heal the injured, and mourne the dead.

Notice she blames parents for abusing their "kids." from wolves she herself got probably PAID to dump on rancher's children. Who's attitude is disgusting???

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 Sounds like you were heavily involved in the tagging, and monitoring work here. The wolves were dumped illegally without 3-177 Forms, which is against the Lacey Act. Read Jim Beers.

Ed Bangs didn't have Congressional Approval, nor did he have Idaho Legislative approval to trap wolves in Canada, and relocate them into the Frank Church, and YNP.

Start with the Outdoorsman, George Dovel bulletin I gave you before. That will help you understand the history.

[coyotedust]

@coyotedust I still would be very interested in what organization, state, and county you conducted your research work in? What experiences and education did you have that qualified you for this work? Were you chosen because you were a supporter of a certain organization? We are working hard to collect information on these monitoring efforts, who conducted them, and if DOW were involved? You can help us this way.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 You left out the Riparian Habitat and Trophic Cascade Effects.

Do you really believe wolves are in danger of becoming extinct?

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 So if it's all about ecoysytems, and "wolves" are mandatory. Why are is the informtion taught to the children that wolves are going extinct, which is what they said about the Occidenitialius sub-species? Why did they teach our kids there has never been a documented case of a healthy wild wolf killng anyone in North America? Why do they teach that wolves kill only the sick, weak, and old?

[NocturnalAngel77]

@coyotedust Wolves were one of the few species that survived the Ice Age for good reason.

But it matters very little about how many times I tell you how and why we would all suffer if wolves didn't exist because pedantic people such as yourself will listen to no one. You are right and everyone else is wrong. The typical pompous Republican to give them all a bad name. Feel free to kill all the wolves on Earth and see what kind of lives our children live in the future.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 Do you know how many wolves live in Canada and Alaska, not to mention world wide. They are not even close to going extinct.

The Yellowstone Elk Herd is in big trouble. The moose in Yellowstone are almost gone. Have you been there?

[NocturnalAngel77]

@coyotedust If they have done the aforementioned introduction into states that are not native to the wolves, then I must also state that I believe (from a *middle* ground POV) that there is a much more diplomatic way to handle these animals. It is not - after all - their fault that some ignorant do-gooder has pushed them into an unfamiliar environment.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 In Idaho we had "resident wolf packs" documented. We have many people that brought this information forward to the USFWS, and all "data" was compromised.  The native wolf we had here, was very secretive, smaller, and less aggessive. They lived in small packs or pairs. After dropping the transported larger subspecies Occidentialius into Yellowstone and the Frank Church, the wolves were killing cattle within days. Read Cat's book.

[NocturnalAngel77]

@coyotedust People write books based on their opinions. Does that make them fact? I think not. You can write a book about all of the "facts" that you know about wolves and how terrible you think they are on our ecosystem but unless you have done your own personal, extensive research in the wild monitoring these animals for a number of years, your "facts" are nothing but hearsay.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 So how do they benefit the ecoysystem? What groups did you work with during your "monitoring efforts?" Cat Urbigkit documented native wolves, lives in Wyoming at Ground Zero. You haven't even read her book, and you are already "writing your review," based on EMOTION!

I'm interested in what extensive research you were involved in. Sounds like you were working with DOW. What states did you do your telemetry monitoring? We're you hired as an employee by any agency?

[coyotedust]

@coyotedust If you were monitoring for our State Fish and Game Agency, were you working as a volunteer, or hired as a temp.? Who were your superviors? Who was the District or Regional Supervisor? How many years were you involved in this monitoring research? I would like to know even the name of the County.

[NocturnalAngel77]

@coyotedust It is no one's business who I work or worked for and yes I studied as a Conservationist and I was part of the monitoring and tagging systems for wildlife. But as I've stated before, it matters little what experience and proof I have of wolf habits - you will try anything to justify your killing of an innocent creature so as not to feel guilty for assuming blame which may or may not be warranted.

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 It matters because I would like to know if you were hired as a Conservationist Biologist work in Idaho, and for what agency?

[coyotedust]

@NocturnalAngel77 Do your homework. You-tube: The Killing Sport. Google: Idaho for Wildlife, Save Western Wildlife, Black Bear Blog, Wolf Crossing, where this came from. Read Outdoorsman articles on Idaho for Wildlife. Go to Save Our Elk. com,

Read: Yellowstone Wolves, A Chronicle of the Animal, the People, and the Politics.

I would suggest getting educated quickly, because DOW and all the Animal Environmental Radical Groups want wolves in every state of the Nation.

[Eaglecreekbrewer]

I have to seriously disagree with your warning. This is the very sight so many, including children are subjected to on a regular basis since the introduction of these illegal wolves. Why the protection of city kids from reality?

If half the people witnessed this, perhaps they would lose a little of their delusional beliefs.

[Mont556n]

They should have been shot. End of problem. Why the govt. is taking this stand is beyond me. Allowing these wolves to be transplanted into these areas is pure insanity.......

[NocturnalAngel77]

I agree Dianna!! My whole thought process here is "how do you know 100% that this was a wolf attack?" Coyotes attack like this as well. Not to mention, if it were a person accused of murder, would you immediately put them on death row with nothing but circumstantial evidence? "Well, now see here, only white men with brown hair and eyes, between 5'6" and 5'10" kill like this so it must be them." No, you wouldn't. Rabies could be factoring in and other animals could also be a factor.

[jinxd009]

2002Dianna your stupid.

This is a wolf attack, duh. They are SPECIALISTS who know their jobs. NOt someone on the internet. And the reason wolf dog hybrids kill more is because THERE IS WOLF IN THEM! Jesus.

I agree with Holybiosurvivor

[dsrtdady]

"NOt someone on the internet" -- now that explains why he's on the internet. brilliant.

[Holybiosurvivor]

People dont believe what goes on. All they think about is how the wolves are sweet and kind and would never do this. - chuckel chuckle - My grandparents own a farm up in Effie Minnesota where there live stock are being slaughtered by wolves i have witnessed a wolve kill a cow giving birth to her calf eating both her and the unborn calf. I have seen them take lambs and you would never find anything. Sure the wolves are graceful and beuatiful animals but people put money into there livestock.

[wolfcrossing]

This is a confirmed attack by Fish and Wildlife Service, nothing else in NM kills like this.

[JessCarey1]

mexwolfsupporter,

Again, you lie because you dislike the folks that live in Catron County. Your credability is suspect! The general public can see right through your smoke and BS.

Rabies outbreak spurs Flagstaff pet quarantine

Associated Press - April 8, 2009 11:54 AM ET

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. (AP) - Coconino County Supervisors have approved a pet quarantine across parts of Flagstaff while the county health department battles a rabies outbreak in the local wild animal population.

[wolfcrossing]

Rabies at this point is throughout the entire Az regional area and most of SW New Mexico. You are right, it is an attempt to smear certain communities and ignore that same issue in others.

[JessCarey1]

mexwolfsupporter,

Again you are missleading the public. You want the public to think "Wolves" do not kill and eat people. Kenton Carnegie, age 22 was killed and eaten by 4 wolves in Canada on November 8th 2005. It took 2 years before the "cause of death" was determined. Paul Paquet (another self proclaimed wolf expert) stated a black bear killed Kenton, he also tried to undermine others that testified who were present at the scene. The wolves in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming are "Canadian Wolves".

[wolfcrossing]

Jess, the person who commented made sure to use the comment no wolves have killed people in the US, they didn't say in the America's. We know there have been people killed by wolves on our continent probably more than Mr. Carnegie. But once he was victimized the claim became "none in the US" no longer "none in America" Big difference and still waffling.

[letthegoodtimesrol]

@JessCarey1

but you have to understand. The wolves in canada are 100 plus pound beasts that kill all the time. These mexican wolves are different than their much larger, more feroicous northern cousin

[JessCarey1]

mexwolfsupporter,

I read your post and you sound just like Robinson "a self proclaimed wolf expert" from the center biological diversity. You are telling lies to the public when you list Lions as feeding on prey alive. I have investigated, documented and confirmed lion kills, both mule deer and livestock and they were killed outright before feeding. You are citing carnivore biology out of a book with no "on the ground education". You prevaricate to champion your Federal wolves at any cost.

[Eaglecreekbrewer]

Actually pal, you are the one that is wrong, cats kill their prey, mainly through suffocation before they eat it. You seem to have little to no actual knowledge of predators beyond what you think you managed to gleen from animal planet. Coyotes rarely kill animals large enough that they are not dead before consumption, same with foxes.

[mexwolfsupporter]

reality check: no human being has been killed by wolves in the u.s. in 50 yrs. in the 1990s 18 were killed by dogs. recently catron cty had an outbreak of rabies in dogs. why? catron cty residence irresponsibly neglect to vaccine their dogs. if catron cty is worried about kids being killed they need to focus on their dogs not the wolves. catron cty is irrationally paranoid of fantasies they create in their mind about wolves with no hard data or facts to back up their igorant behavior.

[nowolves]

Reality check: You shouldn't lie. Catron County had a rabies outbread from foxes, not dogs. The one dog that had to be put down belonged to a man from Grant County who had visited the Catwalk. Now, who needs to have hard data & facts to back up their ignorant behavior and poor spelling ability?

[JessCarey1]

reality check:

I have investigated 300 wolf incidents, 140 were on private property. These wolves are flawed, they are extremly "Habituated" to humans and human use areas. Habituated wolves lack wild wolf characteristics.

Children have observed wolves killing their family pets in their yards, and at their front pourches.

Psycological trauma, PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) has been documented in our children from wolves interactions.

"irrationally paranoid"? "ignorant behavior"???????

[wolfcrossing]

Let us not forget though that Silver City NM, home of many extemists environmentalists wolf supporters also had a massive rabies outbreak. So if we are going to paint dog owners in Catron county with the old demon brush, let's be fair about it.

[BIGSKYHAL50]

I think he is educated enough. When peoples livihoods are at stake, there should be no issue, get rid of those wolves! Sooner or later, someone will be missing a child.  The point is PEOPLE live there now, and, obviously, introducing wolves into their mist was a mistake.

[Rockholm66]

Unbelievable!

It is sickening, the wolves are allowed to have an almost god like status. This animal, and thousands of others, have to endure a gruesome death. The public is completely ignorant of events like this, and the media fails at best, getting the truth out. Great video post. I will share it with everyone I know.

[BIGSKYHAL50]

I cannot see how the government can allow this to happen.......what a shame.....shoot the damm things!

[Rockholm66]

Shoot every last mangy mutt!

[BruceH59]

The public needs to see the truth on how wolves eat the animals alive. It is sick.

[wolfcrossing]

I think I need to clarify that we all hate this suffering but the only way to stop it or minimize it to tolerable levels is to show it when it happens. Most people think wolves are humane bite the jugular killers. This is a public program and the public should have to see the truth. We have to, our children have to, our families are impacted. Our animals are brutalized. This is the truth and we all hate seeing it.

[Eaglecreekbrewer]

The one thing I disagree with is this, all these children should be made to watch this, especially these walt disney city kids . Why do they keep protecting these wolves image and then promoting them as some wonderful humane prestigious animal. They are anything but. I feel for new Mexico, it's unbelievable how bad it has to get before any progress is made in getting this mistake corrected.

[wolfcrossing]

The animal was found after two days roaming around like this. 6 more minutes didn't make much difference. ALL of the animals killed suffer like this and just because you finally saw it doesn't mean it doesn't happen all the time. Yes immediately after the filming the yearling was humanely put down.

[mskay2789]

I understand and whole heartedly support the effort.

However.....the point was made in the first 10-20 seconds. I see NO Humanity in the of suffering this animal endured for the 6:06 minutes of repetative taping for the shock factor. The audience forgets the "wolf factor" and just goes away only thinking of the suffering.

[meflyfish]

This is hard to watch but necessary to make the point. However, why not put the poor yearling out of it's misery with a shot to the head.