Pray if you want, don't pray if you don't want. Personally, I don't pray, but if you do, that's fine too! Freedom of choice is another great characteristic of our country.
Here to all the stupid non-christians we don't need you we don't care what you have to say we nare 80% of the country so go back to your occuturd protest and kill your self the less welfare state commie,socialist douch bags the better
@JacobinOfHearts So and so was the most evil people in the world were atheist.The atheist are not out there in third world feeding people and getting them meds.What have your type done to make peoples lifes better "nothing".So take your punk ass some where cause no one want u here
@ugotcatfish And you base that claim on...? The burden of proof here SHOULD be on you for making the claim, but the shortest of Google searches netted me this list of a few atheist charities: Atheist Centre of India, the Foundation Beyond Belief, Earthward Inc, the Fellowship of Freethought, and the International Humanist and Ethical Union. One of my atheist coworkers volunteers to feed the homeless every Thanksgiving.
@JacobinOfHearts Do you really want to compare what christians do for people then your kind thats a joke.i could find thousands of christian groups that have been doing it for 2 300 years so don't try and comape your little shit to what we do.and i have been to third world countrys not only with a chruch but with the marines to feed and give meds among other things so don't give me my friend helps.
@ugotcatfish Yes, I do. Because that's what you did. But I guess the "little shit" of helping other people doesn't matter unless it has a Christian label on it. If I expand the number of non-religious aid organizations to those that simply don't include religion in their mission statement or texts, the number explodes. Your service as a Marine is fantastic, and if your faith inspired you to help people, great. But do you think Buddhists, Jews and Hindis don't have hospitals or charity, too?
@JacobinOfHearts You can put the other religions on my side cause like christians they don't want nothing to do with people that don't have a god.As for your theres more that dose not have a religion in it's title well lets see thats bull shit i just goggled it and found more matches on my side by the way even the ones who don't have a religion attached to them are still fill with people that believe.so you can keep comeing up with shit to make you feel better but the facts iwin
@ugotcatfish Offering help to other people is clearly a human trait, not exclusive to any one religion. Which doesn't matter, because that has nothing to do with the primary thread of this argument: should government align itself with religion? You've brought up the USSR and China as examples of evil atheist countries. Here, we agree on something: a government shouldn't be atheist, for the same reason it shouldn't be Christian: it's forcing a point of view on individuals.
@ugotcatfish There's a wide chasm of difference between a government like China's that bans Bibles, and a country that says "We don't have a say on that. Do what you want."
@ugotcatfish Additionally, I don't know any atheists who tell people to kill themselves. But I don't think that has anything to do with religion, that's just your failure to be a decent human being.
@stutwostep we christians stop looking at the bible to make laws a long time ago.A the US is only about 400 years old yet the dirty ragheads have had 3000 years and still cave people
@ugotcatfish I'm afraid I'm not quite sure what that has to do with anything, and while there are those who are animals who live in caves (Taliban), that certainly isn't a reflection on the entirety of the Middle Eastern region, a place that has contributed greatly to innovations in mathematics, physics and astronomy. Still, just a word of advice, even if you disagree with someone, telling someone to kill themselves isn't the way to go about solving anything ; )
@stutwostep Would you stop with the stupid shit about not all sandpeople arent bad.Your right not all of them are blowing up themselfs but the people that are not should take out the ones that make there religion look bad.Put it this way if there was a group of christians that were bombing inosent people in america we would have no problem turning them in or killing them.And i didn't say you should kill yourself i ment if your a commie or a socialist then yes cause u are a tratior
@ugotcatfish Well, I mean, it's true, they all aren't bad. And most of them hate the terrorists as much as we do because they would force an atrocious way of life on them. As far as socialism, ha, well, our country is far more socialist than one would think upon first glance, and there are more than a few Republicans who helped out with that along the way, so once again, pay caution. I guess all I'm saying is, we let politics get us way too bent out of shape. Just increase the peace.
@stutwostep All the welfare programs were started by the left not the right and yes the gop has continued the welfare programs but they havent pushed to rasie them or make it worse by makeing a socialist healthcare program thats the left.As for u say don't get in to politics cause they get out of control,When you don't get in to it strong we get the very thing that the left wants everyone to be dependent on the goverment to they have a perment voteing block which will kill america
@ec123456789able It matters a lot. The important thing on which to focus isn't whether his religious beliefs are valid (They're not, and no religious beliefs are, but it's still not the important point here). It's that the Christian Nation argument in its structure is such an unsupported-yet-bullheaded point that it's fear-inspiring. When I hear it, I feel the same fear as if someone on the street started yelling that I stole his wallet so that he could mug me without fear of intervention.
4) Find the word "God" once in the Constitution. Not the Declaration of Independence. I'm talking about the actual, legally binding document that forms the basis for our nation. Go ahead, I'll wait.
Couldn't find it? Okay. Try Jesus. No? Why does a legitimately Christian nation's founding document use the word "God" zero times, and only use the generic "religion" to basically say "we're having no say in that?" Our nation is not Christian, nor Muslim, nor Jewish, nor atheist. It is A Nation.
@JacobinOfHearts your a fool to think we are not a christian when 80% of americans are christian.So go back to your ocuppy protest with the rest of the commie,socialist we don't need you
@ugotcatfish Let's see: I'm not an Occupier, I'm not a socialist, and I'm definitely not a communist. So you're pretty much 0 for 3, there. My point isn't that the majority of United States citizens don't follow one of the many, many Christian sects. It's that the nation as a government entity isn't Christian; in other words, it's not a theocracy.
@JacobinOfHearts There is a differnce between a state run by religion "theocracy" and one that is like america that uses the vales of a religion to run the way they do things your so wrong most americans are christian and about 1% is atheist so it really don't matter what you think Plus you can throw out all the no god bull shit cause science don't know how it all started so anyone could be right
@ugotcatfish Non-religious citizens actually make up more than 16 percent of the population, according to the Census Bureau's statistics, if they would break the "Protestant" category up into its individual sects, I wouldn't be surprised if the only group greater than non-religious persons is Roman Catholics at 23.9 percent. You're going to have to better explain your "veils of religion" point because it sounds like inferential bullshit to me. If "anyone could be right," I'll stick to my view.
@ugotcatfish And that was by design. In the 18th century--and the 19th and early 20th--no one identified themselves by the generic term "Christian." They were Lutheran, or Calvinist, or Baptist, or Quaker, or any number of other sects with drastically different philosophies. The Founding Fathers were smart: they had seen the corruption and infighting that happened in Britain when the government got in the religion business. So they created a government in which faith is a citizen's business.
@JacobinOfHearts like i said run your life not the goverment by your religion which is what the founding father did they would not have side with some godless people like you that in the end don't have to anwser to anything when you die which if you look at the nazi,ussr,china.I can go on and on with the evil no religion countrys
2) Even completely ignoring the Treaty of Tripoli, consider the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Seems to be pretty hands-off.
3) "But hey! That means government can't get its hands on religion, not that religion can't influence government!" Glad you brought it up, hypothetical Steven. Even ignoring the 1st amendment, Article VI Paragraph 3 of the Constitution prohibits religious tests for pub. office.
Oh, you hurt my heart Steven. Gay marriage and whether we're a Christian nation are pretty much the two points on which we disagree.
1) Every Christian nation revisionist wants to discredit Jefferson's letter to the Danbury baptists, yet all of them overlook the Treaty of Tripoli: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Doesn't get any clearer than that.
Gosh crowder, you make me hate conseratives to a level of hate I would find really unconfortable to hate someone, kill yourself then, and go meet your "god", we don't need you here!
@katmandewFBA yea and the fact that all but 2 presidents have been protestant and the words "under god" are in the pledge of allegiance, and that people were escaping the tyranny of the catholic and puritan churches in Britain, and that every moral issue is discussed around religion, says your right!...not...
Treaty of Tripoli states that the country was NOT founded on Christianity and was unanimously signed by the us congress who was made of our Founding Fathers. So YES I am right!
@katmandewFBA I never said we were founded on christianity. 2/3 of americans did not want to seperate from Britain. But the government won the revolutionary why? Mainly yes, because of the unfair taxation etc. But at least 1/3 of the reasons why were religious PRINCIPALS. not religion itself. so no. your wrong.
@Zigz15 Please give details, because your answer is very confusing. And it is lower than 2/3 of Americans. We left for a better reason. If they did not want to separate from British rule, they would never have left in the first place, so your reasoning is wrong. Religious principles is just an excuse and the principles were there before religion was ever invented, so you cannot use that at all. The Fact is, our nation never influenced by any religious beliefs what so ever.
@katmandewFBA really? did you REALLY just say that? you must be one of the most ignorant people ive ever talked to...just really???????? i cant even believe you would say that. i dont even know what to say...
@Zigz15 Yes I did say that and I am far from ignorant! The reason you have nothing to say, is because there isn't anything you can say until you research it further and actually come up with viable facts to support what you say. Get your head out of Jesus's ass and think for yourself and research what you do not know, before commenting!
@katmandewFBA Americans were fleeing opression from both Britain AND the Church...like...i just dont know...have you ever been to america??? like i just dont understand how you can say the U.S. had NO basis of religion in its founding.. thats just ridiculous.
@Zigz15 I think it is ridiculous you do? Why do we need religion? We don't! If you have a faith and it makes your life better, that is fine. But even our Founding Fathers knew it was wrong to push it on other people so therefore, you will not find any religious reference in the constitution or the Bill of rights what so ever. Except for the part where no religious test will be given for office.
@katmandewFBA just because its not directly in the constitution or bill of rights doesnt mean it was not part of the founding of the country...lol nice try there buddy.
@Zigz15 Facts are Facts, Not religious Apologetics which you are really good at giving out! Show me some facts to support your claims and this discussion will make you sound better.
@Zigz15 Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Sorry-I do think there is a postmodern ideas about religion. In England and other countries-I really do believe that state religions were started as a buffer-to minamize Catholicism that remained in their countries. Perhaps heresy as high treason? Not too sure on that but I think there might be some relevent ideas on that.
@10com40cal They "rebelled" against him. But his response was vain. That kind of hatred and many of his actions are akin to a tyrant. That isn't much of a choice to give. Worship him or suffer for the rest of time. That's petty. An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent should not have these traits. That is my point. That is why I have turned my back on him.
Seems like the choices for worship are either a malignant narcissist of a god, or human beings that seek to make themselves as gods, or create a religion of the state.
@johnnyboy2537 I would like to simply put out Johnny, that by your statements you should know you never turned your back on him. A very specific text in the Bible would say you never knew him, nor he you. So its rather incorrect to make such a statement as "I turned my back on him" since your back -was- to him all the time.
@johnnyboy2537 Before you make the typical ignorant anti-God statements, read the context of the whole chapter - Hosea 13. What is God saying there? I'll give you a clue. He's talking about how people will suffer when they turn away from Him. It's something they bring on themselves. They're no longer under His protection. They're on their own. They choose to be on their own and it's their choice. They choose death over life when they turn their backs on Him. Like you have.
The that so called monopoly of your is noexistant. The Lutheren and Methodist churchs also matain a standing and if we hated black people we would not go to africa at all
@eques101 now this country is tolerent of most people except for christians. which makes me sad. i believe in equality and not treating people differently on the type of religion they practice or the color of there skin. i wish others would do the same. i mean they make us study evolution in schools (which is very flawed by the way) but we cant even say under god in the pledge of allegiance
@evilmonkey1291 well studying evolution/string theory and creationism isnt bad. My school taught majority of the bigger religion plus other theories not as truth but i find its still important to know because when you graduate youll have to deal with the general pop that dont see things your way. the more you know the better
Let me set things straight, People say why would God allow hunger, war, and death? Well God is Just,He doesn't allow sin into His kingdom nor does he want it on earth. Death is caused by our sin, Life comes from Jesus.Romans 5:12 "Sin came into the world through one man, and his sin brought death with it. As a result, death has spread into the whole human race because everyone has sinned."Romans 5:8 "But God has shown how much he loves us - it was while we were still sinners Christ died for us!"
@simonburbank Take an example of what I stated earlier"-death has spread into the whole human race because everyone has sinned" including myself.One day I will experience physical death, but my personal belief is that I will enter the Kingdom of Heaven because I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior in whom I serve. And for the poverty,do you think they are the only ones who suffer?Being a Christian doesn't always make your life here better,but in the next. I hope this answers your question.
@simonburbank no most of the time if small children are starving, it's the dictators over the country they live in that our sinners. No one is saying starving children starve because they're sinners. There's death because sin exist. Obviously, you can see sin everyday, no one is blaming starving little children. Good thing btw for all those Jesus lovers who've reached and fed millions and millions of starving little children huh?
It's true separation of church and state isn't in the constitution because it's in the bill of rights " congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" also any mention of a god or creator in the declaration of independence, or constitution is from a Deist view point. If you know what a Deist is and know that many prominent founding fathers were Deists you'd you that the US is not a Christian nation
Show me an atheist nation that has ever been tolerant, peaceful, benevolent, or even civil. However, democracy and human rights spread throughout Europe like fire with the Protestant Reformation, when people started having the Bible mass produced in their own language and were able to read it for themselves.
@Virikel "Show me an atheist nation that has ever been tolerant, peaceful, benevolent or even civil." I'm not sure that there's ever been such a thing as an "atheist nation" but the closest thing, I suppose, would be Sweden, in fact many dutch countries could be described as atheistic. However, America is the only country in the world that has godlessness inscribed into it's constitution. Before that, America was just another piece of shit country filled with interreligious warfare.
cont.) killing men, women, and children. Joshua destroyed a lot of cities and people with God's OK. Here's a few: the city of Ai, the Gibeonites, the people of Makkedah, and Lachish. Your "God" approved a lot of massacres. Rats have a higher moral standing than this asshole. "Thou shall not kill" my ass.
Can't forget the eugenics of Karl Marx and Hitler and the forced slavery and executions of religious people of any kind in atheist China and North Korea today. Historically, people killing "in the name of the Bible", coming right down to it, had nothing to do with religious convictions, but rather a vain attempt to justify their crimes. The Bible makes it clear that those who do such things will not get heaven. But those "Christians" you speak of sure leave out a lot of the Bible.
2. Hitler wasn't an atheist. Remember how he did his business in the name of his creator? That would make for a pretty crappy atheist don't you think?
3. (Will comment on eugenics later)
4. People kill out of the morals of their religion. And since Christians are forgiven for anything because of confession they would still go to "heaven". So the 10 commandments are pointless.
@johnnyboy2537 2. Hitlers religious is subjective and pointless to argue over. You never know a mans true faith....only what he says...you can take it for face value or observe behavior and determine the truth. 4. There is a distinct difference between murder and killing, which is accepted by our legal system. Soldiers kill the enemy, Cops kill the bad guys and so fourth. That is not murder, which is what religion is against in most cases. But, killing for justifiable reasons is just life.
@MrBladeCrash 2. Hitler was Catholic. Reading a book should've taught you that.
4. But there are many instances in the bible and many other bits of religious history where it wasn't justified in the slightest. Google Hosea 13:16. It's a rather despicable bit from the Old Testament.
Yes because religion has proved to be the moral high ground. When they don't fly planes into buildings, massacre people for believing in a different invisible man in the sky, slamming a baby into a rock (Whoo Christianity!), the merciless drowning of millions of innocent children (Christians, again), getting stoned to death (What's the point of the commandments?), 24,000 more died from a plague from God (remember he's the good guy!), God approves Joshua's destruction of the city of Jericho(cont.
The words 'under god' were added in the 50's to fight dem evil godless commies. Until then, people were fine with "One nation indivisible." Now that there are more people without a faith, the pledge separates us from each other instead of bringing us together as countrymen.
Also, look at the Treaty of Tripoli. It was officially ratified, unanimously, by the senate, containing the phrase "The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
@finder585 And our founding fathers. If the liberals, and for that matter, those who hate religion, truly studied the founding fathers, I think we would have a lot of people emigrating to a communist nation.
@finder585 So why is it the Bill of Rights instead of the Ten Commandments? The first commandment says "thou shall not have any Gods before me". Doesn't seem like freedom of religion to me.
@simonburbank The commandment was to the Hebrews also known today as Jews.It was for them to know if they had any false gods(sorry if I offend you)that they will not receive The Promised Land or a spiritually happier life.The Founders of This Great Nation(USA)wanted to state that we won't kill or persecute you for your beliefs;unless you cause casualties/victims.And yes it may be arrogant,but I believe Christ is salvation.He wants in return is simply our love and obedience according the Bible.
@thndrknight no it's not arrogant my friend, to know you can't save yourself, so you need Christ. :) Arrogance is thinking you don't need to be forgiven of your sins or need God. Your comment is wonderful though, just thought I'd point out your not arrogant at all for believing that.
Also the "under God" does not belong in the Pledge of Allegiance. You can chant God or whatever all you want in your Churches. I don't care. Don't expect others to say this tainted pledge with you.
Jefferson was not a Christian. He did NOT believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead to save souls. You are completely wrong. Just because he MAY have believed in the same God does not make him a Christian, unless you are going to start including Muslims as Christians, your definition of Christianity is too loose.
@BradleySlavik Why's that? Jefferson was never part of any Deist organization, he attended local churches throughout his life, the fact that he did not choose one denomination specifically does not a deist make. He was anti-clerical, i will give you that much, but keep in mind he referred to himself as a Christian in private letters & used many of Christian moral thought throughout his life and even played a role governing a local Episcopalian Church once--I wrote a college paper on him. :-)
@arivas713 it was a different time then, people expected people to claim a certain denomination and belong to a church. So I just assume some people got the wrong idea,
Mr. "rational" -- perhaps you could please do us the favor of showing how the non-Christian people of our past weren't free. History speaks for itself. Perhaps you could help give it a megaphone.
@Virikel Just scrolling down and noticed this comment. You didn't reply directly to me, perhaps you didn't want me to notice your rather weak response. Anyway, yes let history speak for itself. Why don't you take a glance at the history of Christianity's influence in the world. For example; according to Genesis 9:20-27, black skin is a curse from God, as punishment for Ham's perversions, and black people are to be naturally subservient. Hence the Slave trade. Come back if you need more.
1) Just because you use insults, it doesn't give your comments any more "umph". Opposite, actually. :)
2) Please distinguish between Christianity and frauds. :) Hitler did what he did in the name of atheism and trying to progress evolution. However, it would be immature of me to say that you believe in genocide, wouldn't it? :)
3) About Genesis 9. No it doesn't. You can read it for yourself instead of copying and pasting from bigots. :)
@Virikel 1) Actually I thought I was being polite.
2) If Hitler was an atheist, why was he killing Jews, homosexuals and communists? He was a Catholic. Check the Vatican's attitude towards those three groups, particularly Jews and gays over the last 2000 years. 3) I did read it myself, why don't you? It's not the only example I can give you. Come back if you need more.
@rationalsalvation Hitler claimed to be christian, but played that card to increase his public support. Christians generally have no beef with Jews.....you know....since jesus was a Jew and all. Secondly, half of the christian bible is basically Jewish scripture. I can't recall a mass slaughter of gays under christian authority....and communist are damn good at killing one another so i don't see a big blood loss by christian hands there either
@MrBladeCrash "Christians generally have no beef with Jews" erm, please consult ANY historian before making such a fatuous comment. Does St John's gospel not claim that the Jews called for the blood of Jesus to be on their heads forever? Was the inquisition not specifically created to root out any Jewish converts to Christianity who's faith was wavering? Gays are still being slaughtered in Uganda, Rwanda and Jamaica. Check the history of the Russian Orthodox church and Ivan the Terrible.
@rationalsalvation Inquisition was directed at Jews and Arabs to police new converts. It was most defiantly heavy handed and people died. But it was not against the Jewish people in a direct anti-Semitic / ethnic cleansing kind of way. Contrary to popular belief , in the said 400 years of inquisition the number of people who got mistreated or put to death is rather low.Christians have been getting slaughtered in Africa as well, your point?
@MrBladeCrash Hitler was a Catholic, he never renounced his membership of that church. There are images of him praing in church, priests saluting him, Hitler family Christmas. He lived his life as a Catholic, to say that he was "an atheist just making it seem like he was a Catholic" sounds pretty desperate to me. The Catholic church was preaching anti-semitism and issued pogroms against the Jews after every easter sermon until 1964. Hitler's birthday was celebrated by every church until 1945.
@rationalsalvation I you read what Hitler read it is hard to see him as a Catholic. Also if he himself was Catholic why would he sign a treaty with the Holy See stateing The Church would not try to overthrow him and he would not persicut Catholics. Please reply
@rationalsalvation And may i remind you the last words of Jesus on the cross says it all. People maybe anti-Semitic and use the death of Jesus as a smoking gun to hate another group of people. But the bible never portrays violence toward jews or a anger or hatred for jews.
@MrBladeCrash If you "forgive" them, fine. Tthen I guess you won't be attacking any of them. Personally I find it condescending to "forgive" a group of people for something that YOU believe their ancestors did because your book says so, even though there's no evidence for it.
@rationalsalvation He was talking about forgiving the people personally who crucified him, not "THE JEWS" try reading the Bible, before you try to pass yourself off as an authority on it. If you read just the New Tenement you'd see the love Jesus had for Israel. The Bible is one big love letter to them!
@rationalsalvation No I didn't miss it.And I've read the whole book, not one verse, Matt 17:25, was referring to the people in the crowd. Not every Jews that existed were in the crowd or calling for his death. There were Genitals in the crowd as well. They were giving Pilate an excuse to blame it on them, he he got in trouble. Do you know a lot of them came to believe later, that he was the Christ? Both Romans and Jews. They are with him now, because they repented.
@rationalsalvation you my remind yourself, by reading my other comment, about it not being about the Jews, and you said I must have missed that verse...
@kellymmmbop Hey, I'm not a Christian (just to clarify), I don't have a problem with the Jews. That passage is IN the bible, I DIDN'T WRITE IT! Go and read it again. The Christian dogma is that we were all present at the crucifixion, and that we are all (especially the Jews) responsible for the murder of God (sort of). However, my initial objection is to any Christians who may be pretending that Christians have NEVER persecuted the Jews.
@rationalsalvation You can know the real God, through believing on the cross of Jesus Christ, or you can be overly concerned about Hitler saying he was a catholic.....Some excuse when you meet Him....that you didn't believe because you read Hitler was a catholic? Do you think He'll really buy that? I hope you really consider your soul my friend. It's more precious than any debate you might want to hold on too. God loves you, He sent His Son to die on a cross for you.....
@rationalsalvation he killed them because he was an insane self worshiper, with the need to control the world. I'm not Catholic, but come on, Hitler did all that because he was Catholic? there's no possible way you even believe any of what you've posted on here. If you don't want God, that's your business but don't expect anyone to turn from their own beliefs because Hitler claimed to be a Catholic.
@TheOricul The Catholic church has pretty much planted it's flag in Africa, it runs the monopoly over the so-called charity, which is food and medicine, in exchange they control the education facilities so that there will be ever more people to testify to the greatness of the church. Christianity is taught to children as if it were history rather than religion.
"Christian Nation" in the constitution. FIND IT! Scientific discovery was just getting on it's feet back then, we didn't even have indoor plumbing, of COURSE Jefferson was a deist, no one had any reason to doubt the existence of a creator, however: "Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." ~Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814.
@rationalsalvation Please tell me what the Constitution is and what purpose it serves that would necessitate writing "this is a Christian nation" in it.
@Supermassively Did you watch this video? I'm responding to it. Constitutions are created to remind people what the country stands for, I think that would be a good reason to include "Christian Nation", if America was one. It's not. America is a secular democracy, a free and open republic. If it was a Christian nation, then you'd better remove "Land of the Free" from your national anthem.
@rationalsalvation I asked what THE Constitution is for - not what the dictionary definition of "a constitution" is. So I guess you don't know. In that case, it doesn't surprise me that you'd make such a ridiculous comment.
"Land of the free" contradicts Christian? Are you kidding me? Now I KNOW you're just an irrational Atheist troll here to spew your hateful, bigoted anti-religious venom.
@Supermassively Perhaps you think the American constitution was created for some other purpose? Enlighten me. Assigning a religion to a country DOES contradict freedom. The first amendment was written NOT JUST to keep politics out of religion; Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion. Before the constitution, American Christians were tearing each other apart, hence the wall of separation. They knew what would happen if one denomination took power.
@rationalsalvation Other purpose? It was created for one purpose - to state the limits of the federal government's power. In fact, the only thing it does say about religion is that the government can't force a national religion upon the people like Britain did and like China is doing now (the religion of the state).
There is no logical reason why the Constitution would have to say "This is a Judeo-Christian country" even if it was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.
@Supermassively "In fact, the only thing it does say about religion is that the government can't force a national religion upon the people . . ." - That's the definition of "secular". "Secular" doesn't necessarily mean "Godless", it means that religion may not be imposed. You used the example of Britain, EXACTLY, Britain was a Christian nation until it became a democracy and reduced the royal family to a mere tourist attraction. Notice we don't get beheaded any more.
@guyman117 Riiight, I have a friend who's like a sister to me and she was molested by her step dad. She takes him to court and he never showed up. The court never forced him to appear, or arrested him for not appearing in court. My sister's lawyers had the necessary proof he did it, and yet the asshole is still a free man. Also because of our criminal system, child molesters can still get out on good behavior. Now some are probably rehabilitated, while others would molest some other poor kid.
@Cogitatio023 You can be as sorry as you want. bud.lol I ripped your flimsy argument to shreds, becayse this is a nation founded on Judeo-Christian ethics.Get over it and move on.
@Cogitatio023 Haha "Prove it" that's your rebuttal? Do some research yourself and get educated on your own time buddy, unless you want to pay me to tutor you, which I'm down for...lol
@iamspid3rman You are the one making the claim.That means the Burden of prove is on you. Do you have prove,or like the bible are you just making things up as you go. I am not saying the Christians are not good people,or that someone saying the pledge of allegiance is going to hurt me,or that a kid saying grace before lunch is Violating my rights.
@Cogitatio023 Correction, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff, which is you bud. It's a fact that this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian ethics, therefore, enjoy looking for evidence backing your case, a case that I already destroyed.lol
@iamspid3rman Look, I know I am coming off as a dick,and for that sorry. I am not one of these normal atheist who want to destroy your religion,or to stop Christmas,or to stop you from doing any thing you want. I just have not seen any prove that are country was founded on christian ethics. All I am asking for is letters from the founding fathers that show this,or any other type of text. Again if I have Offended you I do apologies.
@Cogitatio023 Lol I wouldn't care if you were one. All I am saying in response to you asking, is due the damn research. You somehow managed to pull up the half quote from John Adams, and the b_llshit article 11, then you can spend some time in researching the quotes and the facts that lead to this being a nation founded on Judeo-Christian ethic. You haven't seen any because you chose not to, it's called partisanship, and many suffer from it. P.S. You haven't offended anybody.
@Cogitatio023 Article 11 of treaty of tripoli is a forgery which was denounced by congress upon renegotiation as well as by the government printing office in 1931.It's a forgery made by joel barlow who resented Christians vehemently. How about you post the entire John Adams quote in which he states."Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell." Benjamin franklin was deist "i believe in one God, the Creator of the universe" You're a joke
As a libertarian and an atheist I honestly don't give a shit how you practice your religion, it doesn't affect me in the slightest. And I don't care if you teach my kids about "God" or "Allah", doesn't mean they're going to believe that crock of shit. If the ACLU is offended by "one nation under God" - what's their problem? Sure, it's bullshit, but so is government in general. Also, the absence of religious beliefs is not the same as having beliefs in a deity - atheism is not a religion.
This would be the equivalent of saying that lobbyist who draft a bill have the lawmaking authority and not Congress itself. Im not sure how you can logically conclude that the US is christian by its very establishment. Because the word "god" is found in the document? Therefore allowing the Establishment clause to be viewed as an extension of pre-existing religious status? I encourage you to do some more informed ranting.
value. Your approach to constitutional analysis seems to stem from a school of thinking called Originalism, which after three proposed forms(intent, understanding, and public meaning) has ultimately failed among legal scholars. The Founding Father's lives, opinions, and assumed views are not legitimate tools for interpreting law. In fact, the founding fathers themselves didnt have legislative authoirty because the simply drafted the doc. The congress that passed the doc, hasthe authority.
While you video was entertaining, its intellectually invalid. Several legal provision have been established to evalute constitutionality of laws at odds with the Establishment Clause. The Lemon Test, holds one critetion that requires a law to have a secular purpose. National days of prayer (prayer being a purely religious activity) has no secular purpose and is dismissed with legal precedent. Also, this country is secular, regardless of the founding fathers personal beliefs which have no legal
Putting aside your hating on non-christians. You must see why the separation of church and state is actually constitutional. 'Freedom of religion' implies that in order for people to be able to practice their own religions free of pressures from governmental institutions, the institutions themselves must have no affiliation at all with a specific religion.
Thus, atheism, a "religion", is the disliked default that IS government with no religion.
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” (Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11: Written during the Administration of George Washington and signed into law by John Adams.
Noone is stopping you from praying. We just want you to stop using government resources on your religion like it says in the first amendment. ACLU defends everyones civil liberties. Including peoples religious freedoms. The character in this video seems to be based on some completely fictional character based on absolutely nothing from the mind of a person with no knowledge of what ACLU does. It's only funny in a sad way because of how strange it is.
You could argue that Thomas Jefferson said the same as Obama in his Treaty of Tripoli, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".
Just wait until we have a "National Atheist Day", and see how happy you are!
Oh, wait...Atheists understand that the first amendment would make such a day unconstitutional, so they would be against such a thing. Oh well, I guess we'll just spend our days defending your right to practice your religion freely, while you piss all over ours... you're welcome...
@chiachuck You just said : "I guess we'll just spend our days defending your right to practice your religion freely, while you piss all over ours" thereby admitting that atheism is in fact a religion. But we knew that already.
@chiachuck I didn't hurt myself when typing that comment. My hangnail got caught on the X key and ripped my entire fingernail off. It hurt really bad.
@HexI702 It would have been a little more professional to provide a link. But look, if I, a Bible-believer had been polled by Gallup, I would have been among the two-thirds that said Christianity IS losing ground in America. The reason is because over the past fifty years, the churches have begun to put more emphasis on their numbers instead of winning souls to Christ. Just because Christianity is "losing ground" - whatever that means, doesn't change the fact that we're still a Christian nation.
Pray if you want, don't pray if you don't want. Personally, I don't pray, but if you do, that's fine too! Freedom of choice is another great characteristic of our country.
stutwostep 1 week ago
Here to all the stupid non-christians we don't need you we don't care what you have to say we nare 80% of the country so go back to your occuturd protest and kill your self the less welfare state commie,socialist douch bags the better
ugotcatfish 2 weeks ago
@ugotcatfish I'm a card-carrying atheist, but you definitely got a "Jesus Christ" out of me with that comment.
JacobinOfHearts 2 weeks ago
@JacobinOfHearts So and so was the most evil people in the world were atheist.The atheist are not out there in third world feeding people and getting them meds.What have your type done to make peoples lifes better "nothing".So take your punk ass some where cause no one want u here
ugotcatfish 2 weeks ago
@ugotcatfish And you base that claim on...? The burden of proof here SHOULD be on you for making the claim, but the shortest of Google searches netted me this list of a few atheist charities: Atheist Centre of India, the Foundation Beyond Belief, Earthward Inc, the Fellowship of Freethought, and the International Humanist and Ethical Union. One of my atheist coworkers volunteers to feed the homeless every Thanksgiving.
JacobinOfHearts 2 weeks ago
@JacobinOfHearts Do you really want to compare what christians do for people then your kind thats a joke.i could find thousands of christian groups that have been doing it for 2 300 years so don't try and comape your little shit to what we do.and i have been to third world countrys not only with a chruch but with the marines to feed and give meds among other things so don't give me my friend helps.
ugotcatfish 2 weeks ago
@ugotcatfish Yes, I do. Because that's what you did. But I guess the "little shit" of helping other people doesn't matter unless it has a Christian label on it. If I expand the number of non-religious aid organizations to those that simply don't include religion in their mission statement or texts, the number explodes. Your service as a Marine is fantastic, and if your faith inspired you to help people, great. But do you think Buddhists, Jews and Hindis don't have hospitals or charity, too?
JacobinOfHearts 2 weeks ago
@JacobinOfHearts You can put the other religions on my side cause like christians they don't want nothing to do with people that don't have a god.As for your theres more that dose not have a religion in it's title well lets see thats bull shit i just goggled it and found more matches on my side by the way even the ones who don't have a religion attached to them are still fill with people that believe.so you can keep comeing up with shit to make you feel better but the facts iwin
ugotcatfish 2 weeks ago
@ugotcatfish Alright. Have fun with your spiteful little life, buddy.
JacobinOfHearts 2 weeks ago
@JacobinOfHearts Well alright buddy have fun with your godless,spiteful life
ugotcatfish 2 weeks ago
@ugotcatfish Offering help to other people is clearly a human trait, not exclusive to any one religion. Which doesn't matter, because that has nothing to do with the primary thread of this argument: should government align itself with religion? You've brought up the USSR and China as examples of evil atheist countries. Here, we agree on something: a government shouldn't be atheist, for the same reason it shouldn't be Christian: it's forcing a point of view on individuals.
JacobinOfHearts 2 weeks ago
@ugotcatfish There's a wide chasm of difference between a government like China's that bans Bibles, and a country that says "We don't have a say on that. Do what you want."
JacobinOfHearts 2 weeks ago
@ugotcatfish Additionally, I don't know any atheists who tell people to kill themselves. But I don't think that has anything to do with religion, that's just your failure to be a decent human being.
JacobinOfHearts 2 weeks ago
@ugotcatfish Haha, yes, one must ask "who would Jesus ask to kill themselves first?".
stutwostep 1 week ago
@stutwostep we christians stop looking at the bible to make laws a long time ago.A the US is only about 400 years old yet the dirty ragheads have had 3000 years and still cave people
ugotcatfish 1 week ago
@ugotcatfish I'm afraid I'm not quite sure what that has to do with anything, and while there are those who are animals who live in caves (Taliban), that certainly isn't a reflection on the entirety of the Middle Eastern region, a place that has contributed greatly to innovations in mathematics, physics and astronomy. Still, just a word of advice, even if you disagree with someone, telling someone to kill themselves isn't the way to go about solving anything ; )
stutwostep 1 week ago
@stutwostep Would you stop with the stupid shit about not all sandpeople arent bad.Your right not all of them are blowing up themselfs but the people that are not should take out the ones that make there religion look bad.Put it this way if there was a group of christians that were bombing inosent people in america we would have no problem turning them in or killing them.And i didn't say you should kill yourself i ment if your a commie or a socialist then yes cause u are a tratior
ugotcatfish 1 week ago
@ugotcatfish Well, I mean, it's true, they all aren't bad. And most of them hate the terrorists as much as we do because they would force an atrocious way of life on them. As far as socialism, ha, well, our country is far more socialist than one would think upon first glance, and there are more than a few Republicans who helped out with that along the way, so once again, pay caution. I guess all I'm saying is, we let politics get us way too bent out of shape. Just increase the peace.
stutwostep 1 week ago
@stutwostep All the welfare programs were started by the left not the right and yes the gop has continued the welfare programs but they havent pushed to rasie them or make it worse by makeing a socialist healthcare program thats the left.As for u say don't get in to politics cause they get out of control,When you don't get in to it strong we get the very thing that the left wants everyone to be dependent on the goverment to they have a perment voteing block which will kill america
ugotcatfish 1 week ago
Why would it matter how you interpret the constitution anyway.
It doesn't make your religion any more true.
Logic, science, reason, rationality, evidence, and facts FTW!
ec123456789able 2 weeks ago
@ec123456789able It matters a lot. The important thing on which to focus isn't whether his religious beliefs are valid (They're not, and no religious beliefs are, but it's still not the important point here). It's that the Christian Nation argument in its structure is such an unsupported-yet-bullheaded point that it's fear-inspiring. When I hear it, I feel the same fear as if someone on the street started yelling that I stole his wallet so that he could mug me without fear of intervention.
JacobinOfHearts 2 weeks ago
4) Find the word "God" once in the Constitution. Not the Declaration of Independence. I'm talking about the actual, legally binding document that forms the basis for our nation. Go ahead, I'll wait.
Couldn't find it? Okay. Try Jesus. No? Why does a legitimately Christian nation's founding document use the word "God" zero times, and only use the generic "religion" to basically say "we're having no say in that?" Our nation is not Christian, nor Muslim, nor Jewish, nor atheist. It is A Nation.
JacobinOfHearts 3 weeks ago
@JacobinOfHearts your a fool to think we are not a christian when 80% of americans are christian.So go back to your ocuppy protest with the rest of the commie,socialist we don't need you
ugotcatfish 2 weeks ago
@ugotcatfish Let's see: I'm not an Occupier, I'm not a socialist, and I'm definitely not a communist. So you're pretty much 0 for 3, there. My point isn't that the majority of United States citizens don't follow one of the many, many Christian sects. It's that the nation as a government entity isn't Christian; in other words, it's not a theocracy.
JacobinOfHearts 2 weeks ago
@JacobinOfHearts There is a differnce between a state run by religion "theocracy" and one that is like america that uses the vales of a religion to run the way they do things your so wrong most americans are christian and about 1% is atheist so it really don't matter what you think Plus you can throw out all the no god bull shit cause science don't know how it all started so anyone could be right
ugotcatfish 2 weeks ago
@ugotcatfish Non-religious citizens actually make up more than 16 percent of the population, according to the Census Bureau's statistics, if they would break the "Protestant" category up into its individual sects, I wouldn't be surprised if the only group greater than non-religious persons is Roman Catholics at 23.9 percent. You're going to have to better explain your "veils of religion" point because it sounds like inferential bullshit to me. If "anyone could be right," I'll stick to my view.
JacobinOfHearts 2 weeks ago
@ugotcatfish And that was by design. In the 18th century--and the 19th and early 20th--no one identified themselves by the generic term "Christian." They were Lutheran, or Calvinist, or Baptist, or Quaker, or any number of other sects with drastically different philosophies. The Founding Fathers were smart: they had seen the corruption and infighting that happened in Britain when the government got in the religion business. So they created a government in which faith is a citizen's business.
JacobinOfHearts 2 weeks ago
@JacobinOfHearts like i said run your life not the goverment by your religion which is what the founding father did they would not have side with some godless people like you that in the end don't have to anwser to anything when you die which if you look at the nazi,ussr,china.I can go on and on with the evil no religion countrys
ugotcatfish 2 weeks ago
2) Even completely ignoring the Treaty of Tripoli, consider the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Seems to be pretty hands-off.
3) "But hey! That means government can't get its hands on religion, not that religion can't influence government!" Glad you brought it up, hypothetical Steven. Even ignoring the 1st amendment, Article VI Paragraph 3 of the Constitution prohibits religious tests for pub. office.
JacobinOfHearts 3 weeks ago
Oh, you hurt my heart Steven. Gay marriage and whether we're a Christian nation are pretty much the two points on which we disagree.
1) Every Christian nation revisionist wants to discredit Jefferson's letter to the Danbury baptists, yet all of them overlook the Treaty of Tripoli: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Doesn't get any clearer than that.
JacobinOfHearts 3 weeks ago
It seems like a whole lot of arguing in the comments could be settled if those commenting did these two things:
1. Read the Bible, keeping an open mind as to what is actually said and not what you would think is said.
2. Read Mein Kampf, keeping an open mind as to what is actually said and not what you would think is said.
MrLotharofhillpeople 3 weeks ago
This country was based instead on "Enlightenment" principles of The French Revolution
dawgie102 1 month ago
Gosh crowder, you make me hate conseratives to a level of hate I would find really unconfortable to hate someone, kill yourself then, and go meet your "god", we don't need you here!
diegovercesi 1 month ago
Comment removed
noobama20124567 1 month ago
treaty of tripoli
IncoherentCommenter 1 month ago
Our country was not founded on Faith! It was founded on freedom from the British Empire!
katmandewFBA 1 month ago
@katmandewFBA yea and the fact that all but 2 presidents have been protestant and the words "under god" are in the pledge of allegiance, and that people were escaping the tyranny of the catholic and puritan churches in Britain, and that every moral issue is discussed around religion, says your right!...not...
Zigz15 1 month ago
@Zigz15
Treaty of Tripoli states that the country was NOT founded on Christianity and was unanimously signed by the us congress who was made of our Founding Fathers. So YES I am right!
katmandewFBA 1 month ago
@katmandewFBA I never said we were founded on christianity. 2/3 of americans did not want to seperate from Britain. But the government won the revolutionary why? Mainly yes, because of the unfair taxation etc. But at least 1/3 of the reasons why were religious PRINCIPALS. not religion itself. so no. your wrong.
Zigz15 1 month ago
@Zigz15 Please give details, because your answer is very confusing. And it is lower than 2/3 of Americans. We left for a better reason. If they did not want to separate from British rule, they would never have left in the first place, so your reasoning is wrong. Religious principles is just an excuse and the principles were there before religion was ever invented, so you cannot use that at all. The Fact is, our nation never influenced by any religious beliefs what so ever.
katmandewFBA 1 month ago
@katmandewFBA really? did you REALLY just say that? you must be one of the most ignorant people ive ever talked to...just really???????? i cant even believe you would say that. i dont even know what to say...
Zigz15 1 month ago
@Zigz15 Yes I did say that and I am far from ignorant! The reason you have nothing to say, is because there isn't anything you can say until you research it further and actually come up with viable facts to support what you say. Get your head out of Jesus's ass and think for yourself and research what you do not know, before commenting!
katmandewFBA 1 month ago
@katmandewFBA Americans were fleeing opression from both Britain AND the Church...like...i just dont know...have you ever been to america??? like i just dont understand how you can say the U.S. had NO basis of religion in its founding.. thats just ridiculous.
Zigz15 1 month ago
@Zigz15 I think it is ridiculous you do? Why do we need religion? We don't! If you have a faith and it makes your life better, that is fine. But even our Founding Fathers knew it was wrong to push it on other people so therefore, you will not find any religious reference in the constitution or the Bill of rights what so ever. Except for the part where no religious test will be given for office.
katmandewFBA 1 month ago
@katmandewFBA just because its not directly in the constitution or bill of rights doesnt mean it was not part of the founding of the country...lol nice try there buddy.
Zigz15 1 month ago
@Zigz15 Facts are Facts, Not religious Apologetics which you are really good at giving out! Show me some facts to support your claims and this discussion will make you sound better.
katmandewFBA 1 month ago
@Zigz15 Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
katmandewFBA 1 month ago
Sorry-I do think there is a postmodern ideas about religion. In England and other countries-I really do believe that state religions were started as a buffer-to minamize Catholicism that remained in their countries. Perhaps heresy as high treason? Not too sure on that but I think there might be some relevent ideas on that.
daveme7 1 month ago
@10com40cal They "rebelled" against him. But his response was vain. That kind of hatred and many of his actions are akin to a tyrant. That isn't much of a choice to give. Worship him or suffer for the rest of time. That's petty. An omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent should not have these traits. That is my point. That is why I have turned my back on him.
johnnyboy2537 1 month ago
Seems like the choices for worship are either a malignant narcissist of a god, or human beings that seek to make themselves as gods, or create a religion of the state.
TheBabyraper666 1 month ago
@johnnyboy2537 I would like to simply put out Johnny, that by your statements you should know you never turned your back on him. A very specific text in the Bible would say you never knew him, nor he you. So its rather incorrect to make such a statement as "I turned my back on him" since your back -was- to him all the time.
22Inquisitor 1 month ago
Hosea 13:16 God's prolife my ass.
johnnyboy2537 1 month ago in playlist More videos from StevenCrowder
@johnnyboy2537 Before you make the typical ignorant anti-God statements, read the context of the whole chapter - Hosea 13. What is God saying there? I'll give you a clue. He's talking about how people will suffer when they turn away from Him. It's something they bring on themselves. They're no longer under His protection. They're on their own. They choose to be on their own and it's their choice. They choose death over life when they turn their backs on Him. Like you have.
10com40cal 1 month ago
Ever noticed how all the youtube Bible is...fill in the blank, "experts" have obviously never read it?
kellymmmbop 2 months ago
The that so called monopoly of your is noexistant. The Lutheren and Methodist churchs also matain a standing and if we hated black people we would not go to africa at all
TheOricul 2 months ago
now hears my big question, what was your reaction when you found out he held a MUSLIM prayer day
eques101 2 months ago
@eques101 now this country is tolerent of most people except for christians. which makes me sad. i believe in equality and not treating people differently on the type of religion they practice or the color of there skin. i wish others would do the same. i mean they make us study evolution in schools (which is very flawed by the way) but we cant even say under god in the pledge of allegiance
evilmonkey1291 2 months ago
@evilmonkey1291 and i know we arent tolerent of everybody but christians but it seems that way some times.
evilmonkey1291 2 months ago
@evilmonkey1291 well studying evolution/string theory and creationism isnt bad. My school taught majority of the bigger religion plus other theories not as truth but i find its still important to know because when you graduate youll have to deal with the general pop that dont see things your way. the more you know the better
A1pha2R3d 2 months ago
@evilmonkey1291 well studying big bang/string theory* evolution/creationism* HA thats better =D
A1pha2R3d 2 months ago
Love the "Hook" reference
bgoods9956 2 months ago
@bgoods9956 wait where was that?
eques101 2 months ago
@eques101 "the children are screaming etc."
bgoods9956 2 months ago
Let me set things straight, People say why would God allow hunger, war, and death? Well God is Just,He doesn't allow sin into His kingdom nor does he want it on earth. Death is caused by our sin, Life comes from Jesus.Romans 5:12 "Sin came into the world through one man, and his sin brought death with it. As a result, death has spread into the whole human race because everyone has sinned."Romans 5:8 "But God has shown how much he loves us - it was while we were still sinners Christ died for us!"
thndrknight 2 months ago
@thndrknight That's disgusting. So little children die of hunger and malnutrition because they're sinners?
simonburbank 2 months ago
@simonburbank Take an example of what I stated earlier"-death has spread into the whole human race because everyone has sinned" including myself.One day I will experience physical death, but my personal belief is that I will enter the Kingdom of Heaven because I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior in whom I serve. And for the poverty,do you think they are the only ones who suffer?Being a Christian doesn't always make your life here better,but in the next. I hope this answers your question.
thndrknight 2 months ago
@simonburbank no most of the time if small children are starving, it's the dictators over the country they live in that our sinners. No one is saying starving children starve because they're sinners. There's death because sin exist. Obviously, you can see sin everyday, no one is blaming starving little children. Good thing btw for all those Jesus lovers who've reached and fed millions and millions of starving little children huh?
kellymmmbop 2 months ago
Did anyone commenting watch the video?
SHAWNHYMS 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It's true separation of church and state isn't in the constitution because it's in the bill of rights " congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" also any mention of a god or creator in the declaration of independence, or constitution is from a Deist view point. If you know what a Deist is and know that many prominent founding fathers were Deists you'd you that the US is not a Christian nation
Bapes79 3 months ago
Show me an atheist nation that has ever been tolerant, peaceful, benevolent, or even civil. However, democracy and human rights spread throughout Europe like fire with the Protestant Reformation, when people started having the Bible mass produced in their own language and were able to read it for themselves.
Virikel 3 months ago
@Virikel "Show me an atheist nation that has ever been tolerant, peaceful, benevolent or even civil." I'm not sure that there's ever been such a thing as an "atheist nation" but the closest thing, I suppose, would be Sweden, in fact many dutch countries could be described as atheistic. However, America is the only country in the world that has godlessness inscribed into it's constitution. Before that, America was just another piece of shit country filled with interreligious warfare.
rationalsalvation 3 months ago
cont.) killing men, women, and children. Joshua destroyed a lot of cities and people with God's OK. Here's a few: the city of Ai, the Gibeonites, the people of Makkedah, and Lachish. Your "God" approved a lot of massacres. Rats have a higher moral standing than this asshole. "Thou shall not kill" my ass.
johnnyboy2537 3 months ago
@johnnyboy2537
Can't forget the eugenics of Karl Marx and Hitler and the forced slavery and executions of religious people of any kind in atheist China and North Korea today. Historically, people killing "in the name of the Bible", coming right down to it, had nothing to do with religious convictions, but rather a vain attempt to justify their crimes. The Bible makes it clear that those who do such things will not get heaven. But those "Christians" you speak of sure leave out a lot of the Bible.
Virikel 3 months ago
@Virikel
1.My point is religion isn't harmless.
2. Hitler wasn't an atheist. Remember how he did his business in the name of his creator? That would make for a pretty crappy atheist don't you think?
3. (Will comment on eugenics later)
4. People kill out of the morals of their religion. And since Christians are forgiven for anything because of confession they would still go to "heaven". So the 10 commandments are pointless.
johnnyboy2537 3 months ago 2
@johnnyboy2537 2. Hitlers religious is subjective and pointless to argue over. You never know a mans true faith....only what he says...you can take it for face value or observe behavior and determine the truth. 4. There is a distinct difference between murder and killing, which is accepted by our legal system. Soldiers kill the enemy, Cops kill the bad guys and so fourth. That is not murder, which is what religion is against in most cases. But, killing for justifiable reasons is just life.
MrBladeCrash 3 months ago in playlist More videos from StevenCrowder
@MrBladeCrash 2. Hitler was Catholic. Reading a book should've taught you that.
4. But there are many instances in the bible and many other bits of religious history where it wasn't justified in the slightest. Google Hosea 13:16. It's a rather despicable bit from the Old Testament.
johnnyboy2537 2 months ago
Yes because religion has proved to be the moral high ground. When they don't fly planes into buildings, massacre people for believing in a different invisible man in the sky, slamming a baby into a rock (Whoo Christianity!), the merciless drowning of millions of innocent children (Christians, again), getting stoned to death (What's the point of the commandments?), 24,000 more died from a plague from God (remember he's the good guy!), God approves Joshua's destruction of the city of Jericho(cont.
johnnyboy2537 3 months ago
I like the Hook reference...well done.
bgoods9956 3 months ago
The words 'under god' were added in the 50's to fight dem evil godless commies. Until then, people were fine with "One nation indivisible." Now that there are more people without a faith, the pledge separates us from each other instead of bringing us together as countrymen.
Also, look at the Treaty of Tripoli. It was officially ratified, unanimously, by the senate, containing the phrase "The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
Neonite86 3 months ago
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6 NIV)
We are a Christian nation, the founding fathers were deists not atheists.
ProIsraelrepublican 3 months ago
Finally! Funny and smart. Now, if only he could find some wisdom...
Religious people are still scary.
TheDisturbism 3 months ago
This is completely unrepresentative of the ACLU. Completely.
ThatkidwithCP 3 months ago
Freedom of religion is based on Christian Law?!?! What about the first commandment? Does that FORBID freedom of religion?
prometheus314159 4 months ago
WAIT A MINUTE !!!!! a liberal with a gun????
50TNCSA 4 months ago
You're the right wing extreemist
usapegasus007 4 months ago
We're not a christian nation, we're a nation of many religion...
usapegasus007 4 months ago
@usapegasus007 yes we are a christian nation just look at our our ideals...
and also is every one who tells the truth called that now?
finder585 4 months ago
@finder585 And our founding fathers. If the liberals, and for that matter, those who hate religion, truly studied the founding fathers, I think we would have a lot of people emigrating to a communist nation.
Hammergunshipping 4 months ago in playlist Hammergunshipping's Favorited Videos
@finder585 So why is it the Bill of Rights instead of the Ten Commandments? The first commandment says "thou shall not have any Gods before me". Doesn't seem like freedom of religion to me.
simonburbank 2 months ago
@simonburbank The commandment was to the Hebrews also known today as Jews.It was for them to know if they had any false gods(sorry if I offend you)that they will not receive The Promised Land or a spiritually happier life.The Founders of This Great Nation(USA)wanted to state that we won't kill or persecute you for your beliefs;unless you cause casualties/victims.And yes it may be arrogant,but I believe Christ is salvation.He wants in return is simply our love and obedience according the Bible.
thndrknight 2 months ago 2
@thndrknight no it's not arrogant my friend, to know you can't save yourself, so you need Christ. :) Arrogance is thinking you don't need to be forgiven of your sins or need God. Your comment is wonderful though, just thought I'd point out your not arrogant at all for believing that.
kellymmmbop 2 months ago
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@kellymmmbop I agree. no man cometh unto the father but by me (jesus).
evilmonkey1291 2 months ago
@kellymmmbop Thank you, your comment was very nice and thanks for pointing that out to me.
thndrknight 2 months ago
@thndrknight :)
kellymmmbop 2 months ago
Also the "under God" does not belong in the Pledge of Allegiance. You can chant God or whatever all you want in your Churches. I don't care. Don't expect others to say this tainted pledge with you.
BradleySlavik 4 months ago
Jefferson was not a Christian. He did NOT believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead to save souls. You are completely wrong. Just because he MAY have believed in the same God does not make him a Christian, unless you are going to start including Muslims as Christians, your definition of Christianity is too loose.
BradleySlavik 4 months ago
@BradleySlavik Why's that? Jefferson was never part of any Deist organization, he attended local churches throughout his life, the fact that he did not choose one denomination specifically does not a deist make. He was anti-clerical, i will give you that much, but keep in mind he referred to himself as a Christian in private letters & used many of Christian moral thought throughout his life and even played a role governing a local Episcopalian Church once--I wrote a college paper on him. :-)
arivas713 4 months ago
@arivas713 it was a different time then, people expected people to claim a certain denomination and belong to a church. So I just assume some people got the wrong idea,
kellymmmbop 2 months ago
so 5/7 is your day steven 4/20 my day ;)
stonerpunx 5 months ago
Mr. "rational" -- perhaps you could please do us the favor of showing how the non-Christian people of our past weren't free. History speaks for itself. Perhaps you could help give it a megaphone.
Virikel 5 months ago
@Virikel Just scrolling down and noticed this comment. You didn't reply directly to me, perhaps you didn't want me to notice your rather weak response. Anyway, yes let history speak for itself. Why don't you take a glance at the history of Christianity's influence in the world. For example; according to Genesis 9:20-27, black skin is a curse from God, as punishment for Ham's perversions, and black people are to be naturally subservient. Hence the Slave trade. Come back if you need more.
rationalsalvation 5 months ago
@rationalsalvation
1) Just because you use insults, it doesn't give your comments any more "umph". Opposite, actually. :)
2) Please distinguish between Christianity and frauds. :) Hitler did what he did in the name of atheism and trying to progress evolution. However, it would be immature of me to say that you believe in genocide, wouldn't it? :)
3) About Genesis 9. No it doesn't. You can read it for yourself instead of copying and pasting from bigots. :)
Have a good day.
Virikel 3 months ago
@Virikel 1) Actually I thought I was being polite.
2) If Hitler was an atheist, why was he killing Jews, homosexuals and communists? He was a Catholic. Check the Vatican's attitude towards those three groups, particularly Jews and gays over the last 2000 years. 3) I did read it myself, why don't you? It's not the only example I can give you. Come back if you need more.
rationalsalvation 3 months ago
@rationalsalvation Hitler claimed to be christian, but played that card to increase his public support. Christians generally have no beef with Jews.....you know....since jesus was a Jew and all. Secondly, half of the christian bible is basically Jewish scripture. I can't recall a mass slaughter of gays under christian authority....and communist are damn good at killing one another so i don't see a big blood loss by christian hands there either
MrBladeCrash 3 months ago in playlist More videos from StevenCrowder 2
@MrBladeCrash "Christians generally have no beef with Jews" erm, please consult ANY historian before making such a fatuous comment. Does St John's gospel not claim that the Jews called for the blood of Jesus to be on their heads forever? Was the inquisition not specifically created to root out any Jewish converts to Christianity who's faith was wavering? Gays are still being slaughtered in Uganda, Rwanda and Jamaica. Check the history of the Russian Orthodox church and Ivan the Terrible.
rationalsalvation 3 months ago
@rationalsalvation Inquisition was directed at Jews and Arabs to police new converts. It was most defiantly heavy handed and people died. But it was not against the Jewish people in a direct anti-Semitic / ethnic cleansing kind of way. Contrary to popular belief , in the said 400 years of inquisition the number of people who got mistreated or put to death is rather low.Christians have been getting slaughtered in Africa as well, your point?
MrBladeCrash 3 months ago
@MrBladeCrash Hitler was a Catholic, he never renounced his membership of that church. There are images of him praing in church, priests saluting him, Hitler family Christmas. He lived his life as a Catholic, to say that he was "an atheist just making it seem like he was a Catholic" sounds pretty desperate to me. The Catholic church was preaching anti-semitism and issued pogroms against the Jews after every easter sermon until 1964. Hitler's birthday was celebrated by every church until 1945.
rationalsalvation 3 months ago
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VintageJunior 2 months ago
@rationalsalvation I you read what Hitler read it is hard to see him as a Catholic. Also if he himself was Catholic why would he sign a treaty with the Holy See stateing The Church would not try to overthrow him and he would not persicut Catholics. Please reply
TheOricul 2 months ago
@rationalsalvation And may i remind you the last words of Jesus on the cross says it all. People maybe anti-Semitic and use the death of Jesus as a smoking gun to hate another group of people. But the bible never portrays violence toward jews or a anger or hatred for jews.
MrBladeCrash 3 months ago
@MrBladeCrash If you "forgive" them, fine. Tthen I guess you won't be attacking any of them. Personally I find it condescending to "forgive" a group of people for something that YOU believe their ancestors did because your book says so, even though there's no evidence for it.
rationalsalvation 3 months ago
@rationalsalvation He was talking about forgiving the people personally who crucified him, not "THE JEWS" try reading the Bible, before you try to pass yourself off as an authority on it. If you read just the New Tenement you'd see the love Jesus had for Israel. The Bible is one big love letter to them!
kellymmmbop 2 months ago
@kellymmmbop I guess you missed the passage Matthew 27:25? Look it up, Bollocks Almighty!
rationalsalvation 2 months ago
@rationalsalvation No I didn't miss it.And I've read the whole book, not one verse, Matt 17:25, was referring to the people in the crowd. Not every Jews that existed were in the crowd or calling for his death. There were Genitals in the crowd as well. They were giving Pilate an excuse to blame it on them, he he got in trouble. Do you know a lot of them came to believe later, that he was the Christ? Both Romans and Jews. They are with him now, because they repented.
kellymmmbop 1 month ago
@kellymmmbop Yes, I did know that. What's your point?
rationalsalvation 1 month ago
@rationalsalvation you my remind yourself, by reading my other comment, about it not being about the Jews, and you said I must have missed that verse...
kellymmmbop 1 month ago
@kellymmmbop Hey, I'm not a Christian (just to clarify), I don't have a problem with the Jews. That passage is IN the bible, I DIDN'T WRITE IT! Go and read it again. The Christian dogma is that we were all present at the crucifixion, and that we are all (especially the Jews) responsible for the murder of God (sort of). However, my initial objection is to any Christians who may be pretending that Christians have NEVER persecuted the Jews.
rationalsalvation 1 month ago
@rationalsalvation You can know the real God, through believing on the cross of Jesus Christ, or you can be overly concerned about Hitler saying he was a catholic.....Some excuse when you meet Him....that you didn't believe because you read Hitler was a catholic? Do you think He'll really buy that? I hope you really consider your soul my friend. It's more precious than any debate you might want to hold on too. God loves you, He sent His Son to die on a cross for you.....
kellymmmbop 1 month ago
@rationalsalvation he killed them because he was an insane self worshiper, with the need to control the world. I'm not Catholic, but come on, Hitler did all that because he was Catholic? there's no possible way you even believe any of what you've posted on here. If you don't want God, that's your business but don't expect anyone to turn from their own beliefs because Hitler claimed to be a Catholic.
kellymmmbop 2 months ago
@kellymmmbop In his private conversations you can read that Hitler thought that religion was garbage.
LittleSn00py 1 month ago
@rationalsalvation I wil have to look this up, but before i do please explane why Christianity is growing in africa at a very rapid rate
TheOricul 2 months ago
@TheOricul The Catholic church has pretty much planted it's flag in Africa, it runs the monopoly over the so-called charity, which is food and medicine, in exchange they control the education facilities so that there will be ever more people to testify to the greatness of the church. Christianity is taught to children as if it were history rather than religion.
rationalsalvation 2 months ago
@rationalsalvation um no, it said nothing of the color of his skin. what was the person on who told you that?
kellymmmbop 2 months ago
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en . wikipedia . org/wiki/ Separation_of_church_and_state
Kedoshroom 5 months ago
"Christian Nation" in the constitution. FIND IT! Scientific discovery was just getting on it's feet back then, we didn't even have indoor plumbing, of COURSE Jefferson was a deist, no one had any reason to doubt the existence of a creator, however: "Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." ~Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814.
rationalsalvation 5 months ago
@rationalsalvation Please tell me what the Constitution is and what purpose it serves that would necessitate writing "this is a Christian nation" in it.
Supermassively 5 months ago
@Supermassively Did you watch this video? I'm responding to it. Constitutions are created to remind people what the country stands for, I think that would be a good reason to include "Christian Nation", if America was one. It's not. America is a secular democracy, a free and open republic. If it was a Christian nation, then you'd better remove "Land of the Free" from your national anthem.
rationalsalvation 5 months ago
@rationalsalvation I asked what THE Constitution is for - not what the dictionary definition of "a constitution" is. So I guess you don't know. In that case, it doesn't surprise me that you'd make such a ridiculous comment.
"Land of the free" contradicts Christian? Are you kidding me? Now I KNOW you're just an irrational Atheist troll here to spew your hateful, bigoted anti-religious venom.
Supermassively 5 months ago
@Supermassively Perhaps you think the American constitution was created for some other purpose? Enlighten me. Assigning a religion to a country DOES contradict freedom. The first amendment was written NOT JUST to keep politics out of religion; Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion. Before the constitution, American Christians were tearing each other apart, hence the wall of separation. They knew what would happen if one denomination took power.
rationalsalvation 5 months ago
@rationalsalvation Other purpose? It was created for one purpose - to state the limits of the federal government's power. In fact, the only thing it does say about religion is that the government can't force a national religion upon the people like Britain did and like China is doing now (the religion of the state).
There is no logical reason why the Constitution would have to say "This is a Judeo-Christian country" even if it was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.
Supermassively 5 months ago
@Supermassively "In fact, the only thing it does say about religion is that the government can't force a national religion upon the people . . ." - That's the definition of "secular". "Secular" doesn't necessarily mean "Godless", it means that religion may not be imposed. You used the example of Britain, EXACTLY, Britain was a Christian nation until it became a democracy and reduced the royal family to a mere tourist attraction. Notice we don't get beheaded any more.
rationalsalvation 5 months ago
Churches should want nothing to to do with anything as dirty, disgusting, and corrupt as the government...
papapalpatine2008 6 months ago
@papapalpatine2008 At least the government doesnt protect child molesters.
guyman117 5 months ago
@guyman117 Riiight, I have a friend who's like a sister to me and she was molested by her step dad. She takes him to court and he never showed up. The court never forced him to appear, or arrested him for not appearing in court. My sister's lawyers had the necessary proof he did it, and yet the asshole is still a free man. Also because of our criminal system, child molesters can still get out on good behavior. Now some are probably rehabilitated, while others would molest some other poor kid.
Athos523 5 months ago
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Cogitatio023 6 months ago
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Cogitatio023 6 months ago
@Cogitatio023 We are a nation founded upon Judeo-Christian ethics buddy. Deal with it.
iamspid3rman 6 months ago
@iamspid3rman I am sorry,but we are not.We are a nation founded on the rights of the individual. We are in no way a christian nation.
Cogitatio023 6 months ago
@Cogitatio023 You can be as sorry as you want. bud.lol I ripped your flimsy argument to shreds, becayse this is a nation founded on Judeo-Christian ethics.Get over it and move on.
iamspid3rman 6 months ago
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Cogitatio023 6 months ago
@Cogitatio023 Haha "Prove it" that's your rebuttal? Do some research yourself and get educated on your own time buddy, unless you want to pay me to tutor you, which I'm down for...lol
iamspid3rman 6 months ago
@iamspid3rman You are the one making the claim.That means the Burden of prove is on you. Do you have prove,or like the bible are you just making things up as you go. I am not saying the Christians are not good people,or that someone saying the pledge of allegiance is going to hurt me,or that a kid saying grace before lunch is Violating my rights.
Cogitatio023 6 months ago
@Cogitatio023 Correction, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff, which is you bud. It's a fact that this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian ethics, therefore, enjoy looking for evidence backing your case, a case that I already destroyed.lol
iamspid3rman 6 months ago
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Cogitatio023 6 months ago
@iamspid3rman Look, I know I am coming off as a dick,and for that sorry. I am not one of these normal atheist who want to destroy your religion,or to stop Christmas,or to stop you from doing any thing you want. I just have not seen any prove that are country was founded on christian ethics. All I am asking for is letters from the founding fathers that show this,or any other type of text. Again if I have Offended you I do apologies.
Cogitatio023 6 months ago
@Cogitatio023 Lol I wouldn't care if you were one. All I am saying in response to you asking, is due the damn research. You somehow managed to pull up the half quote from John Adams, and the b_llshit article 11, then you can spend some time in researching the quotes and the facts that lead to this being a nation founded on Judeo-Christian ethic. You haven't seen any because you chose not to, it's called partisanship, and many suffer from it. P.S. You haven't offended anybody.
iamspid3rman 6 months ago
@iamspid3rman Were could I find more info on the article 11? Also any website in particular I should go to do do research,or books I should get?
Cogitatio023 6 months ago
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian religion” John Adams quote
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
-Benjamin Franklin
his would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it
-John Adams
Cogitatio023 6 months ago
@Cogitatio023 Article 11 of treaty of tripoli is a forgery which was denounced by congress upon renegotiation as well as by the government printing office in 1931.It's a forgery made by joel barlow who resented Christians vehemently. How about you post the entire John Adams quote in which he states."Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell." Benjamin franklin was deist "i believe in one God, the Creator of the universe" You're a joke
iamspid3rman 6 months ago
This video is genius!
iamspid3rman 6 months ago
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Cogitatio023 6 months ago
As a libertarian and an atheist I honestly don't give a shit how you practice your religion, it doesn't affect me in the slightest. And I don't care if you teach my kids about "God" or "Allah", doesn't mean they're going to believe that crock of shit. If the ACLU is offended by "one nation under God" - what's their problem? Sure, it's bullshit, but so is government in general. Also, the absence of religious beliefs is not the same as having beliefs in a deity - atheism is not a religion.
martymcflea 6 months ago
As an athieist I can gladly say these next well choosen words.... F*** off, ACLU.
Thank you for your time.
hooplablahblahblah 6 months ago
This would be the equivalent of saying that lobbyist who draft a bill have the lawmaking authority and not Congress itself. Im not sure how you can logically conclude that the US is christian by its very establishment. Because the word "god" is found in the document? Therefore allowing the Establishment clause to be viewed as an extension of pre-existing religious status? I encourage you to do some more informed ranting.
brittonvs 6 months ago
value. Your approach to constitutional analysis seems to stem from a school of thinking called Originalism, which after three proposed forms(intent, understanding, and public meaning) has ultimately failed among legal scholars. The Founding Father's lives, opinions, and assumed views are not legitimate tools for interpreting law. In fact, the founding fathers themselves didnt have legislative authoirty because the simply drafted the doc. The congress that passed the doc, hasthe authority.
brittonvs 6 months ago
While you video was entertaining, its intellectually invalid. Several legal provision have been established to evalute constitutionality of laws at odds with the Establishment Clause. The Lemon Test, holds one critetion that requires a law to have a secular purpose. National days of prayer (prayer being a purely religious activity) has no secular purpose and is dismissed with legal precedent. Also, this country is secular, regardless of the founding fathers personal beliefs which have no legal
brittonvs 6 months ago
More specifically, Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11.
Putting aside your hating on non-christians. You must see why the separation of church and state is actually constitutional. 'Freedom of religion' implies that in order for people to be able to practice their own religions free of pressures from governmental institutions, the institutions themselves must have no affiliation at all with a specific religion.
Thus, atheism, a "religion", is the disliked default that IS government with no religion.
ahardycrockett 6 months ago
Treaty of Tripoli, good sir.
ventures58 7 months ago 2
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” (Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11: Written during the Administration of George Washington and signed into law by John Adams.
MagicTellaVision 7 months ago
Noone is stopping you from praying. We just want you to stop using government resources on your religion like it says in the first amendment. ACLU defends everyones civil liberties. Including peoples religious freedoms. The character in this video seems to be based on some completely fictional character based on absolutely nothing from the mind of a person with no knowledge of what ACLU does. It's only funny in a sad way because of how strange it is.
dinex2 7 months ago
wiat sec a liberal with a gun impposible!!!!!!
50TNCSA 7 months ago
You could argue that Thomas Jefferson said the same as Obama in his Treaty of Tripoli, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".
orbital40k 7 months ago
"Happy Prayer Day you liberal heathens!"
Just wait until we have a "National Atheist Day", and see how happy you are!
Oh, wait...Atheists understand that the first amendment would make such a day unconstitutional, so they would be against such a thing. Oh well, I guess we'll just spend our days defending your right to practice your religion freely, while you piss all over ours... you're welcome...
chiachuck 7 months ago 3
@chiachuck this comment is beautiful
ginad17 7 months ago
@chiachuck You just said : "I guess we'll just spend our days defending your right to practice your religion freely, while you piss all over ours" thereby admitting that atheism is in fact a religion. But we knew that already.
Yyyyzyyy 7 months ago
@Yyyyzyyy Please, stop trying to use logic, you're just going to hurt yourself...
chiachuck 7 months ago
@chiachuck I didn't hurt myself when typing that comment. My hangnail got caught on the X key and ripped my entire fingernail off. It hurt really bad.
Yyyyzyyy 7 months ago
He's not part of the ACLU he clearly was holding a gun, which is unethical and everyone owing a firearm should be shot. ;D
ThatHaloGuy117 7 months ago
@HexI702 It would have been a little more professional to provide a link. But look, if I, a Bible-believer had been polled by Gallup, I would have been among the two-thirds that said Christianity IS losing ground in America. The reason is because over the past fifty years, the churches have begun to put more emphasis on their numbers instead of winning souls to Christ. Just because Christianity is "losing ground" - whatever that means, doesn't change the fact that we're still a Christian nation.
Sistarovat 8 months ago