Schoenberg a composé cette oeuvre lorsqu'il était sourd. Les mesures 8-14-47-86 et 212 sont allemandes sans le consentement de l'Empereur. Les crescendos sont avares. Mesures 211-239 les staccatos n'ont pas le droit d'être interprétés en do bémol. Enfin, Schoenberg aurait dit à Richard Strauss que cette oeuvre était un faux, une blague.
"Le côté trouble de Arnold Schoenberg", Ernst Froelich, Plon, 1966, page 329.
hey people, whatever happened to just liking something for what it is and not picking at whether or not the composer is conforming ot this or that particular style. i think when a composer ristricts hisself/herself to one narrow view they diminish their true quality and leave put so many great possibilities. the same can be said for listening to music. don't knock it 'til you really give it a chance.
im currently writing an essay at uni about his 12 tone technique and in short terms he broke the rules and devised a system in composing music that was not in modern or off its times functional tonality but worked. this method of composing is not mainly for pleasure but for the way it makes you feel. i personally think it only works in filmes
unfortunately the legacy of the romantic period has taught the listener to interpret emotions from the music which It attempts to evoke. Even though 20th century music like this was attempting to break away from that conventional association, it is difficult to not feel as though Shoenberg was communicating some kind of fear, pain, unease, desolation or insanity through the harmonic colours.
@SmackUp7778888 He was born towards the end of the romantic period, if not after that period, and his style was slapping traditional music in the face. This is not romantic music, just like he was not a romantic composer.
@alanjknig that's the thing with music from the 'modernism' era.. is it hyper romantic.. or is it the exact opposite and flying in the face of the romantic traditions...many critics and 'historians' still cant agree on that
@MitellProductions Well, I hear Romantic, clear and simple, because Romantic was Schoenberg's world, of his time. Listen to the violin concerto b. 1874, d. 1951. Atonal maybe, bit still Romantic. Beethoven was a Classical composer. Schoenberg was widely known early in his career for his success in simultaneously extending the traditionally opposed German Romantic styles of Brahms and Wagner.
@alanjknig Nice copy/paste there. Beethoven was a crucial figure that helped the transition between classical and romanticism, so he was both. Schoenberg was a similar figure, in the sense that he helped transition from the romanticist period to the modern period (developing the 12 tone structure that was adopted by many modern composers). His style of music may have borrowed some fundamentals of romanticism, but he altered it with his 12 tone structure to create something incredibly different.
@MitellProductions and I can't sit here and listen to you try and compare this song with a true romanticist song by Brahms, Chopin or Beethoven, they're incredibly different composers with incredibly different styles when compared to Schoenberg
Read Levitan's book "This is your brain on music" and you will understand why most people will never listen to or understand this music. Musical tastes are set by about the age of 19 and because music is very analogous to a language, people not exposed to an musical idiom early in their life will not understand it.
@raa4566 Thanks. Try listening to traditional eastern music sometime. You might as well try to understand Mandarin without ever having studied it. Most people come to music with very preconceived notions of what music is based often upon the simple garbage we hear such as that talentless group the Black Eyed Peas. Non of the members of that band can even sing well.
Schoenberg has taught me that all music is the same. I no longer hear any difference between Schoenberg, Copland's solo piano music, or Jazz of the 20th and 21st century. They're all the same intervals. Once the hear is familiar with all possible tone relationships, the entire world of music opens before your very ears.
Sorry, but anyone who thinks there is no normal harmonic motion in this must be deaf. What's a "traditional" chord, anyway, a triad? If by "traditional" we mean traditional folk music, you'd be surprised how little of it actually has root chords. Most music in the world doesn't have chords at all, so acting as if all music has to use only certain chords is silly.
Quite an interesting reading of this piece, thanks for posting it!
@2300skiddo What I meant was that so many 20th century composers were obsessed with dispelling the well-known sounds of 'western' music up until that point (which I DO commend them for) but presenting a case for the advancement of music which leaves me, personally, cold in Shoenberg's case. The composers I really commend are those who were/are willing and able to just consider music as the composition of sound and feel completely unrestircted by tonality OR atonality. like how I see Brahms music
It is all well and good to say that this type of music explores a greater spectrum, but do you realise just by listening to it the great lengths that Schoenberg and others go to to try and avoid ANY tradiditional chords or chord series. In that way, the music is actually quite limiting. Without a tonal centre of some kind, the music can't actually move anywhere (or at least sound as though it is moving somewhere) it remains in the limbo of mystery; and ALL atonal music sounds the same.
@MrArchimarky Many composers have felt that music that does not go anywhere can, by its very stasis lead the listener into deeper places within a given sound environment. On the other hand, other composers have discovered a way to achieve a sense of directionality using means other than tonality, as for example Xenakis's stochiastic music.
Sorry, not 12-tone; ‘free atonal.’ Seven note motif (G#-E-C-D-Bb-C#-G, one note for each letter in Pierrot’s name) it premiered in 1912 after 40 rehearsals. Schoenberg’s first 12-tone work, officially, came in 1924 (Suite for Piano, Op. 25.) Btw ‘atonal’ was used as an epithet in 1912 by critics; the term has been appropriated positively to describe pieces that don’t have a key center...
Thanks for taking the time to upload and share this wonderful video .Always a part of my collection everywhere . So nice of you . I will have to explore your other uploads . Thanks again, Bob
Ummmm, just to clarify his 'six little piano pieces' weren't considered 12 tone. He doesn't ever use an actual 12 tone row, instead he's using something called pitch set class theory. Look it up, if you care to, oglox. You should at least know what 12 tone music is before you call something "12 tone crap". This is some of the most complex music ever written. You should at least care to know what it's about before you poo-poo it.
Ummmm, just to clarify his 'six little piano pieces' weren't considered 12 tone. He doesn't ever use an actual 12 tone row, instead he's using something called pitch set class theory. Look it up, if you care to, oglox. You should at least know what 12 tone music is before you call something "12 tone crap". This is some of the most complex music ever written. You should at least care to know what it's about before you poo-poo it.
el estilo propio de composicion de schoenberg es dificil de tragar...... pero considero que es una forma de ver la realidad y de trasmitirla por medio de la musica; carece de repeticiones todo lo contrario a como lo hacian sus antiguos amigos, pero indiscutiblemente por personas como el es que nacen cosas nuevas...
i think what i like most about this type of music so far is that i've seen more violently different opinions and arguments about it on here than i have about even hardcore punk. that, to me, is an indicator of good art!
I can,t beleive that people are still strugling to understand this music. listen to it like any other music by starting with the atmoshpere, and then as in contrapunctal music, select a them and follow it through the tone colors this style provides. The message this language is providing is different than traditionnal music because it explores a different spectrum. The listener can thus experince a broader sounscape, and isn't it the purpose of art to open the mind?
@rossignolmusic, lol...open mind doesn't mean stating that every piece is beautiful. Open mind means opening your mind to sensitive, clear, truthful perceptions. It's not that people who don't like atonal music don't understand it - it's that they usually understand it and DON'T like it. It is possible to dislike something and yet comprehend it, you know. For example, the Holocaust.
@KhagarBalugrak good point.But I don't recall menssioning anything about an aesthetic prevalence in art. Art doesn't have to be beautifull. Like you said, ''sensisitve, truthfull,...' Obviously, or I should say, truthfully, life isn't all pretty and modern art has decided to express a very honest perseption of it's time by ALSO stating all that hurts. but since it comes from artists who denounce rather than proclame, shoudn't we consider it a legitimate act?
@rossignolmusic, Certainly, music has a right to attempt to effect political change. However, the emotions expressed shouldn't be the kind of music that just doesn't resonate within the heart due to the "wrong" kind ugliness, for lack of a better word (the kind found in atonal music). Ordinary emotions like sympathetic sadness, righteous anger, etc. will do just fine, since they are emotions everyone can relate to, and are capable of fully expressing the "human condition".
@rossignolmusic, If atonal music could be scientifically proven to be wholesome and good for people, animals and plants to listen to it, I'd eat my words. But as it does destroy life, and isn't necessary or even very capable of effecting political change, due to the fact that the emotions expressed in atonal music don't really "resonate" with the heart or mind, and don't really relate to feelings that people generally feel when they want to evoke political change, as opposed to simply die.
@KhagarBalugrak I would hate to think that science would venture on proving anything in art as it is not a very lasting reference in most if not all domains. But I see that our correspondance is not groing constructivaly so I suggest that we go on listening to whatever we like and can relate to.
@AlexanderDaniels, if something kills plants within a few weeks of exposure, one should seriously ask why and be very cautious. Don't you agree? Hell if I'd just let myself be exposed to something that kills all my rose bushes and petunias...it's probably, at the very least, bad for me, and possibly far worse than that.
@KhagarBalugrak This isn't my favourite music. I am using it to push myself a little, and to learn. That said your rose bushes would die if exposed to Orange juice, Cranberry juice, a nice vinaigrette, a bottle of expensive red wine, a beer etc... if this is your metric for good and bad you will be missing out on a lot of things.
@MichaelnChristine , that is not a valid analogy and you know it. The differences in nutritional requirements are biologically rooted. Music, on the other hand, is something universal; since it's not a chemical, it pretty much affects all creatures the same way. For example, rock music kills plants and also drastically lowers test scores in both children and adults. Atonal music kills plants...and definitely kills brain cells as well.
@KhagarBalugrak You are a ding-bat aren't you? By what mechanism do you claim Atonal music kills plants and brain cells? Is it ok to listen if we wear foil hats? Your understanding of biology is on par with your understanding of music.
@AlexanderDaniels I only kill the babies when I am hungry. :) I love minimalists like Glass and Reich! I love it all. The phase shifting ideas are fascinating but they are, for me, just one tool in a box of tools. Same with 12 tone. NOTHING does mysterious and dream-like like a well written 12 tone-row. Think 'Moon Drunk' from Pierrot Luniare! :)
@MichaelnChristine "just one tool in a box of tools." That is really true, and that's the way people should think about various music theories; they're all useful for different effects. Everyone has their favorite flavor of course. I'd like to see a lengthy symphony that includes some of traditional Western theory, Indian raga theory, Debussian theory, atonal theory, and minimalism. There's probably something like that out there. Just gotta find it. :)
@rossignolmusic I understand works of "Michel van der Aa" (afterlife/memo), I admire late Scriabin (op.65), Some work of Schoenberg I enjoy, I can get along with some Webern if I'm really open to it, but I find this piece too simplistic. I don't enjoy it casually, I don't enjoy the results of analysing it. I really feel Schoenberg was just messing around for this piece.
I see what there is to enjoy, but it's done better, even by himself.
@rossignolmusic I love Schoenberg's music and play these often, but I understand why people have difficulty listening to it. He was revolutionary, and revolutions are not for the faint-of-heart. In an interview with Uchida on her performance of Schoenberg Concerto, the interviewer asks "Can you imagine that quite a lot of people still have difficulty listening to his music?" Her reply, "Of course you would!" The harmonic series and Western tonality are not so easily trifled with.
awesome performance. I don't think I've heard these pieces sound so natural in their weirdness. (like what the heck is that chord at the end of IV? I love it . . )
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no it isnt is disfunctional that´s why is no music and besides you call me a faggot when all the nights i fuck your mother and your sister think ashole
haha, geez your like a little kid, you obviously no nout about music, so why dont you fuck off and listen to your faggot rnb or something you fanny, one of the shittest come backs ever I'll have you know.
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jajaja it´s so funny you dont even know how to write jajajaja this music sucks hear the great composers like bach or chopin also hear rachmaninov and then tell me if this music is great
@oglox27 i've got to wonder why you've taken the time to watch this video if you really hate this music. fair play if you don't get it but if you want to listen to bach etc then typ that into your search bar instead of schoenberg
@Fuglebolle i think u cannot say that it was invented exactly 10 years later...Schönberg always had the wish that the dissonances are getting on the same position as the consonances. And he wrote it for a friend who passed away - Gustav Mahler. Its said that they are one of the first music pieces who aren't based on a fundamental tone. So it kinda shows his idea of 12-tone-music.
This is Schoenberg in free atonality, not yet Serialism, thou weird as well! :-P
Really enjoyable version, fluently and lively played. Shame the last piece was not filled with that much concentration, but I don't know how long the concert had been till then. ;-)
Very well played, IMO. It was a feat to play IV and V almost as a single piece. As an amateur I try to approach these pieces, and find this video most helpful. I love the detachment of the music, but after some time there are intervals which begin to frighten me because they sound so lonely and pathetic.
With respect (and even empathy) for those who are befuddled by the sounds here, this music is NOT drunken slamming of keys, but rather a very precise, and even often delicate music that Schoenberg wrote with a great deal of care. If you listen long and hard enough, you will hear patterns that betray his love for his 19th century predecessors, and showcase a Romantic soul at heart. But you HAVE to listen to this more than once, and try to follow where the music's really going.
honestly, i want to say it's brilliant, but if i heard a guy playing this in a lounge i would wonder if he was drunk and just slamming the keys. that's what it sounds like. but i know to play that well takes decades of practice and is beyond difficult. classical is weird.
Don't call it classical - its too modern for classical music - its NEO Classical, otherwise known as Serialism. This particular type of music avoids the standard type of classical composition methods. So therefore classical is NOT weird. Serialism is weird. I would think a guy was drunk too. Its quite weird actually. Listen to Steve Reich's music. He is the main minimalism composer. Then, and only then, will you change your mind about classical music.
it's not just classical music. there's a lot of that in jazz as well. ornette coleman, john coltrane, they all did it... in different ways, of course.
It comes out seeming so complex when in fact, at its very core, it is a simple twelve note sequence, inverted, flipped and manipulated several times over itself to create something unique.
That's the really beautiful thing about music like this, It's so very open to the musicians interpretation, even from the slightest differences in the way it's played. Thanks for sharing this, it was truly beautiful.
That's because most atonal music has found it's way into the mainstream as movie score music (it is typically paired with horror movies). This is largely because the general public would not listen and appreciate it otherwise. It's dismal but it's probably kept Schoenberg, Webern, Berg and others from fading into musical obscurity (at least beyond the circle of educated musicians)
i somewhat agree with you, but don't underestimate the quantity of people out there who appreciate it. i went to see yussef lateef play some free jazz last summer, which is as dissonant as this video, and it was filled with people. we all loved it. but yeah, it's definitely not mainstream, unless it's in a horror movie :P. just watched one called "joshua" in which a boy plays a very atonal, beautiful version of twinkle twinkle little star. pretty awesome.
It's not mathematical at all, except indirectly. Schoenberg's twelve tone system is simply a way of using a motif, or melodic idea, as the basis for an entire piece, the motif is manipulated in order to produce the musical material, much like a fugue, but without the tonal structure. There is nothing exceptionally complicated or difficult to understand about this, it's actually simpler than traditional classical theory.
ich hörte beroff häufig-zuletzt in flensburg 1980-berg sonte,liszt sonate,dann debussy etüden 2 band und petrouchka.dannach habe ich mich beim essen gut mit ihm unterhalten.1975 spielte er bach partita 7,schumann humoreke,debussy preludes II-großartig.dann kam er mal mit beethoven konzert 5.beroff war einer der besten pianisten seiner zeit.dann kam die fokale dystonie in der rechten hand...nun spielt er wieder,aber wo?der mann hat klasse!!
ja, er hat auch das debussy-werk erneut auf denon aufgenommen - vor ca 15 jahren - aber spielt er live? dann war er auch einige zeit in saarbrücken prof . das hat er nicht lange ausgehalten
Καλημέρα Όμηρε! Είμαι απρόβλεπτος! Μπορεί να ανεβάσω καμιά τσόντα! Προσέξτε με! Όσο μού ρίχνει χυλόπιτες η Κίρκη, δεν ξέρω πως θα αντιδράσω! Όταν λέμε τσόντα, μιλάμε για άγρια πράγματα..Μέχρι και τον Μιτσοτάκη Πρωθυπουργό μπορεί να δείξω! Θα αντέξετε;
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Schoenberg a composé cette oeuvre lorsqu'il était sourd. Les mesures 8-14-47-86 et 212 sont allemandes sans le consentement de l'Empereur. Les crescendos sont avares. Mesures 211-239 les staccatos n'ont pas le droit d'être interprétés en do bémol. Enfin, Schoenberg aurait dit à Richard Strauss que cette oeuvre était un faux, une blague.
"Le côté trouble de Arnold Schoenberg", Ernst Froelich, Plon, 1966, page 329.
TheAlonetogether 10 hours ago
Heureusement il n´a pas repassé sa chemise 0:50. C´est parfâit pour faire du Schoemberg.
Gygatanz52 3 days ago
hey people, whatever happened to just liking something for what it is and not picking at whether or not the composer is conforming ot this or that particular style. i think when a composer ristricts hisself/herself to one narrow view they diminish their true quality and leave put so many great possibilities. the same can be said for listening to music. don't knock it 'til you really give it a chance.
scgammon 3 months ago in playlist listening examm
im currently writing an essay at uni about his 12 tone technique and in short terms he broke the rules and devised a system in composing music that was not in modern or off its times functional tonality but worked. this method of composing is not mainly for pleasure but for the way it makes you feel. i personally think it only works in filmes
chrisjohnjohnson 3 months ago
I just can't understand it, if you get what I mean. I appreciate its brilliance, but I don't feel engaged by it.
An0n3mu55 4 months ago
I would totally hit that.
zenhighwayman 5 months ago
On this page is the violin concerto. Listen to it. Isn't it Romantic, if atonal?
alanjknig 6 months ago
Pure poetry and beautifully played. Thank you.
Scriabin28 6 months ago
Great piece.. I usually don't like this kind of music, but I must say that this piece is very nice.
EnigmasourcePiano 11 months ago
seriously emotional - I like it.
iheartnaturesbeauty 11 months ago
This is what happens when the original and amazing music has been overdone. its sad that great things must come to an end
loofascraper 11 months ago
Wow! Very nice. It so connects the dots between 19th C and really modern music.
dobiegee 11 months ago
unfortunately the legacy of the romantic period has taught the listener to interpret emotions from the music which It attempts to evoke. Even though 20th century music like this was attempting to break away from that conventional association, it is difficult to not feel as though Shoenberg was communicating some kind of fear, pain, unease, desolation or insanity through the harmonic colours.
MrArchimarky 1 year ago
@MrArchimarky Well put.
Hyardacil 1 year ago
I'm not discrediting this style of music, but I'm def more of a romanticist and this sounds horrendous to my ears... lol
MitellProductions 1 year ago
@MitellProductions Believe it or not, Schoenberg was a Romantic composer.
SmackUp7778888 10 months ago
@SmackUp7778888 He was born towards the end of the romantic period, if not after that period, and his style was slapping traditional music in the face. This is not romantic music, just like he was not a romantic composer.
MitellProductions 9 months ago
@MitellProductions Schoenberg was a Romantic composer.
alanjknig 7 months ago 2
@alanjknig that's the thing with music from the 'modernism' era.. is it hyper romantic.. or is it the exact opposite and flying in the face of the romantic traditions...many critics and 'historians' still cant agree on that
seenmelately 7 months ago
@alanjknig I view this piece more as Modern than Romantic. Compare this to Beethoven or Chopin (true Romanticists) and you'll notice the differences
MitellProductions 6 months ago
@MitellProductions Well, I hear Romantic, clear and simple, because Romantic was Schoenberg's world, of his time. Listen to the violin concerto b. 1874, d. 1951. Atonal maybe, bit still Romantic. Beethoven was a Classical composer. Schoenberg was widely known early in his career for his success in simultaneously extending the traditionally opposed German Romantic styles of Brahms and Wagner.
alanjknig 6 months ago
@alanjknig Nice copy/paste there. Beethoven was a crucial figure that helped the transition between classical and romanticism, so he was both. Schoenberg was a similar figure, in the sense that he helped transition from the romanticist period to the modern period (developing the 12 tone structure that was adopted by many modern composers). His style of music may have borrowed some fundamentals of romanticism, but he altered it with his 12 tone structure to create something incredibly different.
MitellProductions 6 months ago
@MitellProductions and I can't sit here and listen to you try and compare this song with a true romanticist song by Brahms, Chopin or Beethoven, they're incredibly different composers with incredibly different styles when compared to Schoenberg
MitellProductions 6 months ago
It`s so beautiful!
Это так красиво
imju2q 1 year ago
It is amazing to believe that Schoenberg wrote most of these in just one day. What genious. I love playing these!
wonderlasting 1 year ago
Read Levitan's book "This is your brain on music" and you will understand why most people will never listen to or understand this music. Musical tastes are set by about the age of 19 and because music is very analogous to a language, people not exposed to an musical idiom early in their life will not understand it.
ALTERED13TH 1 year ago
@ALTERED13TH
nicely put!
raa4566 1 year ago
@raa4566 Thanks. Try listening to traditional eastern music sometime. You might as well try to understand Mandarin without ever having studied it. Most people come to music with very preconceived notions of what music is based often upon the simple garbage we hear such as that talentless group the Black Eyed Peas. Non of the members of that band can even sing well.
ALTERED13TH 1 year ago
@ALTERED13TH
age of 19? How come I enjoy more modern music over the years eventhough I hated it at the age of 20?
Gulzt 1 year ago
This sounds as if someone with large fingernails is scraping a chalkboard
Grondorn 1 year ago
Schoenberg has taught me that all music is the same. I no longer hear any difference between Schoenberg, Copland's solo piano music, or Jazz of the 20th and 21st century. They're all the same intervals. Once the hear is familiar with all possible tone relationships, the entire world of music opens before your very ears.
JosephMalicke 1 year ago
Sorry, but anyone who thinks there is no normal harmonic motion in this must be deaf. What's a "traditional" chord, anyway, a triad? If by "traditional" we mean traditional folk music, you'd be surprised how little of it actually has root chords. Most music in the world doesn't have chords at all, so acting as if all music has to use only certain chords is silly.
Quite an interesting reading of this piece, thanks for posting it!
2300skiddo 1 year ago
@2300skiddo What I meant was that so many 20th century composers were obsessed with dispelling the well-known sounds of 'western' music up until that point (which I DO commend them for) but presenting a case for the advancement of music which leaves me, personally, cold in Shoenberg's case. The composers I really commend are those who were/are willing and able to just consider music as the composition of sound and feel completely unrestircted by tonality OR atonality. like how I see Brahms music
MrArchimarky 1 year ago
if you have to ask you'll never know
thenamesfrancisco 1 year ago
It is all well and good to say that this type of music explores a greater spectrum, but do you realise just by listening to it the great lengths that Schoenberg and others go to to try and avoid ANY tradiditional chords or chord series. In that way, the music is actually quite limiting. Without a tonal centre of some kind, the music can't actually move anywhere (or at least sound as though it is moving somewhere) it remains in the limbo of mystery; and ALL atonal music sounds the same.
MrArchimarky 1 year ago
@MrArchimarky Many composers have felt that music that does not go anywhere can, by its very stasis lead the listener into deeper places within a given sound environment. On the other hand, other composers have discovered a way to achieve a sense of directionality using means other than tonality, as for example Xenakis's stochiastic music.
nobodady1 1 year ago
Wonderful performance!
bsdml 1 year ago
Sorry, not 12-tone; ‘free atonal.’ Seven note motif (G#-E-C-D-Bb-C#-G, one note for each letter in Pierrot’s name) it premiered in 1912 after 40 rehearsals. Schoenberg’s first 12-tone work, officially, came in 1924 (Suite for Piano, Op. 25.) Btw ‘atonal’ was used as an epithet in 1912 by critics; the term has been appropriated positively to describe pieces that don’t have a key center...
rickypix 1 year ago
thumbs up if you're listening to this for music homework! :D
theunitedspeed 1 year ago
1:52 cuts me to the core of my being
drmplaya34 1 year ago
@drmplaya34 Yeah! And it happens after the sweetest moment!
AlexanderDaniels 1 year ago
Thanks for taking the time to upload and share this wonderful video .Always a part of my collection everywhere . So nice of you . I will have to explore your other uploads . Thanks again, Bob
robertmbruno 1 year ago
Not bad for a 12 tone piece. I don't usually like Shoenberg but that was interesting.
dragonreborn888 1 year ago
tone row =ish haha... i hate how i have to listen to this for music haha
islandraro123 1 year ago
I've just started to listen to atonal music, and all tracks I eared sound really gloomy.
surpreendido 1 year ago
Ummmm, just to clarify his 'six little piano pieces' weren't considered 12 tone. He doesn't ever use an actual 12 tone row, instead he's using something called pitch set class theory. Look it up, if you care to, oglox. You should at least know what 12 tone music is before you call something "12 tone crap". This is some of the most complex music ever written. You should at least care to know what it's about before you poo-poo it.
resolutionrevolution 1 year ago
Ummmm, just to clarify his 'six little piano pieces' weren't considered 12 tone. He doesn't ever use an actual 12 tone row, instead he's using something called pitch set class theory. Look it up, if you care to, oglox. You should at least know what 12 tone music is before you call something "12 tone crap". This is some of the most complex music ever written. You should at least care to know what it's about before you poo-poo it.
resolutionrevolution 1 year ago
1:15 ... This piece is like a really weird dream. Not a bad dream but not a good one either... a dream with wich you just don't know what to think^^
I really like those pieces.
The last piece starting at 3:17 is wonderful... it's like the whole principle of musical tension and loosing stipped down to the core.
bassmajor 1 year ago
Delicious.
Is there a performance of op. 25 that isn't the bloody Gould version anywhere online? Or am I going to have to do the damn thing myself?
hexachordal 1 year ago
el estilo propio de composicion de schoenberg es dificil de tragar...... pero considero que es una forma de ver la realidad y de trasmitirla por medio de la musica; carece de repeticiones todo lo contrario a como lo hacian sus antiguos amigos, pero indiscutiblemente por personas como el es que nacen cosas nuevas...
gracias por el video¡¡¡
daicarjim 2 years ago
I played this once :D ... I remember, the first of the six pieces is the most difficult, and longest aswell ...
Astraios91 2 years ago
i think what i like most about this type of music so far is that i've seen more violently different opinions and arguments about it on here than i have about even hardcore punk. that, to me, is an indicator of good art!
nihilism80 2 years ago 3
I think this performance is excellent
dmitrinsmirnov 2 years ago 6
please excuse my English, I rarely write in this language. But I'm sure you all understand and can look a bit further.
rossignolmusic 2 years ago
I can,t beleive that people are still strugling to understand this music. listen to it like any other music by starting with the atmoshpere, and then as in contrapunctal music, select a them and follow it through the tone colors this style provides. The message this language is providing is different than traditionnal music because it explores a different spectrum. The listener can thus experince a broader sounscape, and isn't it the purpose of art to open the mind?
rossignolmusic 2 years ago 29
@rossignolmusic, lol...open mind doesn't mean stating that every piece is beautiful. Open mind means opening your mind to sensitive, clear, truthful perceptions. It's not that people who don't like atonal music don't understand it - it's that they usually understand it and DON'T like it. It is possible to dislike something and yet comprehend it, you know. For example, the Holocaust.
KhagarBalugrak 1 year ago
Comment removed
rossignolmusic 1 year ago
@KhagarBalugrak good point.But I don't recall menssioning anything about an aesthetic prevalence in art. Art doesn't have to be beautifull. Like you said, ''sensisitve, truthfull,...' Obviously, or I should say, truthfully, life isn't all pretty and modern art has decided to express a very honest perseption of it's time by ALSO stating all that hurts. but since it comes from artists who denounce rather than proclame, shoudn't we consider it a legitimate act?
rossignolmusic 1 year ago
@rossignolmusic, Certainly, music has a right to attempt to effect political change. However, the emotions expressed shouldn't be the kind of music that just doesn't resonate within the heart due to the "wrong" kind ugliness, for lack of a better word (the kind found in atonal music). Ordinary emotions like sympathetic sadness, righteous anger, etc. will do just fine, since they are emotions everyone can relate to, and are capable of fully expressing the "human condition".
KhagarBalugrak 1 year ago
@rossignolmusic, If atonal music could be scientifically proven to be wholesome and good for people, animals and plants to listen to it, I'd eat my words. But as it does destroy life, and isn't necessary or even very capable of effecting political change, due to the fact that the emotions expressed in atonal music don't really "resonate" with the heart or mind, and don't really relate to feelings that people generally feel when they want to evoke political change, as opposed to simply die.
KhagarBalugrak 1 year ago
@KhagarBalugrak I would hate to think that science would venture on proving anything in art as it is not a very lasting reference in most if not all domains. But I see that our correspondance is not groing constructivaly so I suggest that we go on listening to whatever we like and can relate to.
rossignolmusic 1 year ago
@KhagarBalugrak LOL Be careful kids, atonal music destroys lives!
AlexanderDaniels 1 year ago
@AlexanderDaniels, if something kills plants within a few weeks of exposure, one should seriously ask why and be very cautious. Don't you agree? Hell if I'd just let myself be exposed to something that kills all my rose bushes and petunias...it's probably, at the very least, bad for me, and possibly far worse than that.
KhagarBalugrak 1 year ago
@KhagarBalugrak This isn't my favourite music. I am using it to push myself a little, and to learn. That said your rose bushes would die if exposed to Orange juice, Cranberry juice, a nice vinaigrette, a bottle of expensive red wine, a beer etc... if this is your metric for good and bad you will be missing out on a lot of things.
MichaelnChristine 1 year ago
@MichaelnChristine , that is not a valid analogy and you know it. The differences in nutritional requirements are biologically rooted. Music, on the other hand, is something universal; since it's not a chemical, it pretty much affects all creatures the same way. For example, rock music kills plants and also drastically lowers test scores in both children and adults. Atonal music kills plants...and definitely kills brain cells as well.
KhagarBalugrak 1 year ago
@KhagarBalugrak You are a ding-bat aren't you? By what mechanism do you claim Atonal music kills plants and brain cells? Is it ok to listen if we wear foil hats? Your understanding of biology is on par with your understanding of music.
MichaelnChristine 1 year ago
@AlexanderDaniels So we can use all 12 tones of music in order, as a run on the piano, but if we use them any other way we die? LOL Who is this guy?
MichaelnChristine 1 year ago
@MichaelnChristine NO NO NO! You must not use 12! Use only the white keys! Like those minimalists.....
oh .... wait ......
minimalists also kill babies :(
AlexanderDaniels 1 year ago
@AlexanderDaniels I only kill the babies when I am hungry. :) I love minimalists like Glass and Reich! I love it all. The phase shifting ideas are fascinating but they are, for me, just one tool in a box of tools. Same with 12 tone. NOTHING does mysterious and dream-like like a well written 12 tone-row. Think 'Moon Drunk' from Pierrot Luniare! :)
MichaelnChristine 1 year ago
@MichaelnChristine "just one tool in a box of tools." That is really true, and that's the way people should think about various music theories; they're all useful for different effects. Everyone has their favorite flavor of course. I'd like to see a lengthy symphony that includes some of traditional Western theory, Indian raga theory, Debussian theory, atonal theory, and minimalism. There's probably something like that out there. Just gotta find it. :)
aquasheep2 1 year ago
@aquasheep2 Try writing a 12-tone piece with the idea of a 12-bar blues underneath....that's fun.
MichaelnChristine 1 year ago
@MichaelnChristine That sounds pretty fun actually. I'll give that a shot. Thanks.
aquasheep2 1 year ago
@aquasheep2 I've also been experimenting with applying 12-tone ideas to the pentatonic or octotonic scale.
MichaelnChristine 1 year ago
@MichaelnChristine I'd like to hear 12-tone with an underlying octotonic. That would be an interesting one. The octotonic is a pretty sweet scale.
aquasheep2 1 year ago
@rossignolmusic I understand works of "Michel van der Aa" (afterlife/memo), I admire late Scriabin (op.65), Some work of Schoenberg I enjoy, I can get along with some Webern if I'm really open to it, but I find this piece too simplistic. I don't enjoy it casually, I don't enjoy the results of analysing it. I really feel Schoenberg was just messing around for this piece.
I see what there is to enjoy, but it's done better, even by himself.
Gulzt 1 year ago
@rossignolmusic Excellent formulation.
TheEnthe0s 10 months ago
@rossignolmusic I love Schoenberg's music and play these often, but I understand why people have difficulty listening to it. He was revolutionary, and revolutions are not for the faint-of-heart. In an interview with Uchida on her performance of Schoenberg Concerto, the interviewer asks "Can you imagine that quite a lot of people still have difficulty listening to his music?" Her reply, "Of course you would!" The harmonic series and Western tonality are not so easily trifled with.
xgianpatrick 5 months ago
@xgianpatrick Ha, culture...the last frontière!
rossignolmusic 5 months ago
fantastic
mogueyou 2 years ago
awesome performance. I don't think I've heard these pieces sound so natural in their weirdness. (like what the heck is that chord at the end of IV? I love it . . )
zipzappoozoo 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
boooo what a piece of shit we want mozart, bach, hayden, shubert or chopin not this piece of shit
oglox27 2 years ago
Stfu you ass pump, you obviously have no real understanding of musical expression
danhatechav 2 years ago
this is no music
oglox27 2 years ago
Um yes it is, its 12 tone serialism, and you're not making yourself look any better, you're just proving my point.
danhatechav 2 years ago
no its 12 tone crap that what is it
oglox27 2 years ago
And 12 tone is music. Just because your small mind cannot understand it, doesnt mean its not music. Faggot
danhatechav 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
no it isnt is disfunctional that´s why is no music and besides you call me a faggot when all the nights i fuck your mother and your sister think ashole
oglox27 2 years ago
haha, geez your like a little kid, you obviously no nout about music, so why dont you fuck off and listen to your faggot rnb or something you fanny, one of the shittest come backs ever I'll have you know.
danhatechav 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
jajaja it´s so funny you dont even know how to write jajajaja this music sucks hear the great composers like bach or chopin also hear rachmaninov and then tell me if this music is great
oglox27 2 years ago
@oglox27 i've got to wonder why you've taken the time to watch this video if you really hate this music. fair play if you don't get it but if you want to listen to bach etc then typ that into your search bar instead of schoenberg
mogueyou 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i search schoenberg beacuse i wanted to know his work and then i discover that all his pieces were a shit
oglox27 2 years ago
@oglox27 this is great. learn a bit about music. schoenberg was a friggin genius.
mence2socity 2 years ago
why? and besides that is not music
oglox27 2 years ago
Actually, this is not "12 tone crap".
The twelve-tone technique was not invented before 1921, and these pieces were written in 1911.
Fuglebolle 2 years ago 25
@Fuglebolle mmmm....... crap
oglox27 2 years ago
@Fuglebolle i think u cannot say that it was invented exactly 10 years later...Schönberg always had the wish that the dissonances are getting on the same position as the consonances. And he wrote it for a friend who passed away - Gustav Mahler. Its said that they are one of the first music pieces who aren't based on a fundamental tone. So it kinda shows his idea of 12-tone-music.
AnnaH1990 1 year ago
@Fuglebolle in that opinion's defense, this was with an early form of the 12 tone stuff.
slaytesics 5 months ago
This is Schoenberg in free atonality, not yet Serialism, thou weird as well! :-P
Really enjoyable version, fluently and lively played. Shame the last piece was not filled with that much concentration, but I don't know how long the concert had been till then. ;-)
Congratulations!
Gunnar2006 2 years ago
Oh God
Generic1987 2 years ago 2
Very well played, IMO. It was a feat to play IV and V almost as a single piece. As an amateur I try to approach these pieces, and find this video most helpful. I love the detachment of the music, but after some time there are intervals which begin to frighten me because they sound so lonely and pathetic.
BuckshotLaFunke 2 years ago
With respect (and even empathy) for those who are befuddled by the sounds here, this music is NOT drunken slamming of keys, but rather a very precise, and even often delicate music that Schoenberg wrote with a great deal of care. If you listen long and hard enough, you will hear patterns that betray his love for his 19th century predecessors, and showcase a Romantic soul at heart. But you HAVE to listen to this more than once, and try to follow where the music's really going.
bsdml 2 years ago 4
Play Brahms, Chopin, Bach, Beethoven, Mendellsohn, Dvorak, etc and we can tell the difference between good and bad.
rodriguezclassical 2 years ago
uhhh
BenadrylAnnug 2 years ago
honestly, i want to say it's brilliant, but if i heard a guy playing this in a lounge i would wonder if he was drunk and just slamming the keys. that's what it sounds like. but i know to play that well takes decades of practice and is beyond difficult. classical is weird.
zakfmt 2 years ago
Don't call it classical - its too modern for classical music - its NEO Classical, otherwise known as Serialism. This particular type of music avoids the standard type of classical composition methods. So therefore classical is NOT weird. Serialism is weird. I would think a guy was drunk too. Its quite weird actually. Listen to Steve Reich's music. He is the main minimalism composer. Then, and only then, will you change your mind about classical music.
amistrymister 2 years ago
it's not just classical music. there's a lot of that in jazz as well. ornette coleman, john coltrane, they all did it... in different ways, of course.
rsinatra 2 years ago
It comes out seeming so complex when in fact, at its very core, it is a simple twelve note sequence, inverted, flipped and manipulated several times over itself to create something unique.
ProgWill91 2 years ago 2
In fact, in these six little pieces, Schoenberg does not use a twelve-tone row. He uses partial rows.
Ffllicck 2 years ago 4
very good
sommaarturo 2 years ago
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fj5a017 2 years ago
Wow, this guy plays Schoenberg really well... He really knows how to control his dynamics! Props to you man! well done!
PickUpYourLighters 2 years ago 4
That's the really beautiful thing about music like this, It's so very open to the musicians interpretation, even from the slightest differences in the way it's played. Thanks for sharing this, it was truly beautiful.
PickUpYourLighters 2 years ago
Its sounds like horror to me.
cborg87 2 years ago
That's because most atonal music has found it's way into the mainstream as movie score music (it is typically paired with horror movies). This is largely because the general public would not listen and appreciate it otherwise. It's dismal but it's probably kept Schoenberg, Webern, Berg and others from fading into musical obscurity (at least beyond the circle of educated musicians)
ProgWill91 2 years ago
i somewhat agree with you, but don't underestimate the quantity of people out there who appreciate it. i went to see yussef lateef play some free jazz last summer, which is as dissonant as this video, and it was filled with people. we all loved it. but yeah, it's definitely not mainstream, unless it's in a horror movie :P. just watched one called "joshua" in which a boy plays a very atonal, beautiful version of twinkle twinkle little star. pretty awesome.
rsinatra 2 years ago
well, he's from austriaaa. and there is a structuree, it just gets inverted etc.
tRinaKiddo 2 years ago
is there any structure in the music of shoenberg?:p
cborg87 2 years ago
yes
superdude13 2 years ago 3
A mathematical one... very complicated and therefore hard to understand ;)
StevnMareksson 2 years ago
It's not mathematical at all, except indirectly. Schoenberg's twelve tone system is simply a way of using a motif, or melodic idea, as the basis for an entire piece, the motif is manipulated in order to produce the musical material, much like a fugue, but without the tonal structure. There is nothing exceptionally complicated or difficult to understand about this, it's actually simpler than traditional classical theory.
moses2792796 2 years ago 7
Yo toqué todas esas piezas y son una maravilla.
isaacdelaconcha 2 years ago
O 4 SCHO!
ovonijemojeime 2 years ago
I LOVE SHOENBERG!!! i love his work the music is so amazing you can feel the stroy in it and wow i LOVE it
thatsme92 3 years ago 2
Whoa! Greek and German!! What is this?!?!?!?!
j3sskady 3 years ago
यह कुछ हिप नहीं है
agarika 3 years ago
ich hörte beroff häufig-zuletzt in flensburg 1980-berg sonte,liszt sonate,dann debussy etüden 2 band und petrouchka.dannach habe ich mich beim essen gut mit ihm unterhalten.1975 spielte er bach partita 7,schumann humoreke,debussy preludes II-großartig.dann kam er mal mit beethoven konzert 5.beroff war einer der besten pianisten seiner zeit.dann kam die fokale dystonie in der rechten hand...nun spielt er wieder,aber wo?der mann hat klasse!!
mandyschulz 3 years ago
@ mandy
er scheint jetzt vornehmlich zu dirigieren, und aufzunehmen?
CaptainBluebear08 3 years ago
ja, er hat auch das debussy-werk erneut auf denon aufgenommen - vor ca 15 jahren - aber spielt er live? dann war er auch einige zeit in saarbrücken prof . das hat er nicht lange ausgehalten
mandyschulz 3 years ago
...??? Δωδεκάφθογγο σύστημα ;;; Πω, πω.. περιμένω και το κουαρτέτο εγχόρδων με ελικόπτερα του Stockhausen, έτσι όπως πας!!
Να'σαι καλά.. Δεν είναι πάντως εύκολο να τα προσεγγίσεις αυτά τα έργα.
xmilenako 3 years ago
Μή μιλάς για Ελικόπτερα! Δεν το έχω σε τίποτα να ανεβάσω όλα τα Κάμοφ και τα Μιλλ της ΕΣΣΔ και να τα αφιερώσω στο Δημήτρη!
nikolaos333 3 years ago
Καλημέρα Όμηρε! Είμαι απρόβλεπτος! Μπορεί να ανεβάσω καμιά τσόντα! Προσέξτε με! Όσο μού ρίχνει χυλόπιτες η Κίρκη, δεν ξέρω πως θα αντιδράσω! Όταν λέμε τσόντα, μιλάμε για άγρια πράγματα..Μέχρι και τον Μιτσοτάκη Πρωθυπουργό μπορεί να δείξω! Θα αντέξετε;
nikolaos333 3 years ago
Καλημέρα μου αρέσει ο καταιγιδα κλασσικής μουσικής που εξαπέλυσες, συνέχισε μεγάλε Νικόλαε,
OMIROS2 3 years ago