I belief in Post Trib due to Matt 24, and 2 Thessalonians 2. At the last trumpet 1st Corinthians 15:52,53 are clear. matt 24:9 says that Christians will be hated by all nations not one not 5, not 10 but all nations. This is the ultimate test and the truth that we must confess by our mouths, that we must stand at that time and give testimony of our love to God. Rev. 20:4 is very strong to the Pre Trib believer. Don't be deceive, and know that we must see the abomination and the control of people
Please see the link that I sent you at biblocality forums for my full response under the Partial Rapture forums with the title "Overassuming Nature of Pretribulation Rapture Onlyists". Thanks to Watchman Nee.
In 11:7-8 the 2 witnesses are martyred in Jerusalem. In Rev 12:6, the woman that flees into the wilderness for 1260 days represents Israel in the great tribulation. These are just a few reasons we know Israel is at the center of God's plan. The present, predominantly Gentile church & the doctrines concerning it were a mystery unknown to the Jews throughout the first 69 weeks. We therefore must be removed prior to the beginning of 70th week, which is determined upon nation of Israel (Dan. 9:24)
Within the Church, there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. During the tribulation however, God's focus will be on the nation of Israel. God will deal with Israel as Gabriel said in Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks (of years) are determined upon thy people..." That is, Daniel's people, Israel. As discussed under the amillennial topic, the first 69 weeks have passed and one remains. In Revelation chapter 7, the 144,000 are all chosen from the people of Israel, and their tribes are listed...
If you assume you are going to be raptured before the Tribulation, pridefully, and it not be according to readiness like Revelation 3.10 then you will enter the Tribulation and assume the several million that are taken up are not Christians, even accuse the brethren (Rev. 12.10), because if they were Christians you assume you would have been received up also, thus deceived and may take the mark of the beast as well. Pretribulation onlyists are in a troubling state of mind.
@Parture My friend, pre-trib makes more sense. There are many reasons why the true Christians of this dispensation cannot be on the earth during the tribulation! One has to understand the language that was being used during that time. There are many reasons why there will be a pre-trib rapture, my friend. One reason is because Israel is the focus of the end times, not the present church: During the Church age there are three classes of people: Jews, Gentiles, and the Church (1 Cor. 10:32)...
@Parture Another reason: Jesus sd in Matt 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; & then shall the end come." The gospel of the kingdom was "...Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matt 4:17). But, Paul preached the gospel of grace which is: Jesus Christ, the Son of God, freely gave His life as a sacrifice for our sins. He was crucified, buried, & rose from the dead on the third day (1 Cor 15:1-4).
@Parture Paul wrote in Galatians 1:8 that if anyone "preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Thus we know that this present predominantly Gentile church must be removed to allow the worldwide preaching of the gospel of the kingdom that Paul did not preach to us.
@Parture Another reason: The tabernacle of David: Referring to Peter's visit to the house of Cornelius, James sd, "God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. & to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, & will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down..." (Acts 15:14-16). After what? After God takes out of the Gentiles "a people for his name" (Christians).
Of course there're some Jews mixed in, for there's no difference within the present Church. Thus the filling of the Church must be completed prior to rebuilding of the temple, which is prior to the midpoint of the tribulation (Dan 9:27 & 2Thess2:4). Once God is through calling out a people for His name from among the Gentiles, He'll return His attention back to Israel, rebuildng the temple. Prior to this, the believers in this age must be removed from the scene, being caught up into heaven.
Anthr reason: The fulness of the Gentiles! After discussing the analogy of the good olive tree & the wild olive tree, Paul reveals the mystery in Rom 11:25-26, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved."
@Parture Once again we see that it's not until after the last Gentile becomes a Christian that God resumes his program with the nation of Israel. Another reason: We don't know the day of the rapture. We will not know the date, but we are told to watch & know the general time of the end. There's no warning for the rapture, as you know. However, Dan 9:27 tells us that the 2nd coming is seven years AFTER the Antichrist makes his covenant with Israel & 3-1/2 yrs after he breaks the covenant.
@Parture Therefore . . . Christians cannot be left on earth during the whole tribulation or even the first half, because we'd know the exact date of the rapture, contradicting scripture. If the post-tribulationists or mid-tribulationists were correct, we would have a seven year or three & one half year notification before the rapture...
Revelation 3.10 says "Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that [hour] which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." This is a condition. Do all Christians do this? Of course not, so not all believers are raptured before the Tribulation. The same is true of Luke 21.36, Matt. 24.40-41,42.
My Aunt was asked during a visit to her Dr. what religion she is? Not by the Dr. but by the administators for redords! It had nothing to do with treatment. I can kind of understand that if something critical happens they may want to know what type of clergy to contact for you but still this is creepy.
I belief in Post Trib due to Matt 24, and 2 Thessalonians 2. At the last trumpet 1st Corinthians 15:52,53 are clear. matt 24:9 says that Christians will be hated by all nations not one not 5, not 10 but all nations. This is the ultimate test and the truth that we must confess by our mouths, that we must stand at that time and give testimony of our love to God. Rev. 20:4 is very strong to the Pre Trib believer. Don't be deceive, and know that we must see the abomination and the control of people
delmaroeb 1 year ago
Please see the link that I sent you at biblocality forums for my full response under the Partial Rapture forums with the title "Overassuming Nature of Pretribulation Rapture Onlyists". Thanks to Watchman Nee.
Parture 1 year ago
You must prove your claim, yet still have not presented any challenge to Matt. 24.40-41,42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10 and 12.5 with 7.9.
Parture 1 year ago
In 11:7-8 the 2 witnesses are martyred in Jerusalem. In Rev 12:6, the woman that flees into the wilderness for 1260 days represents Israel in the great tribulation. These are just a few reasons we know Israel is at the center of God's plan. The present, predominantly Gentile church & the doctrines concerning it were a mystery unknown to the Jews throughout the first 69 weeks. We therefore must be removed prior to the beginning of 70th week, which is determined upon nation of Israel (Dan. 9:24)
DerrickthePinecone 1 year ago
Within the Church, there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. During the tribulation however, God's focus will be on the nation of Israel. God will deal with Israel as Gabriel said in Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks (of years) are determined upon thy people..." That is, Daniel's people, Israel. As discussed under the amillennial topic, the first 69 weeks have passed and one remains. In Revelation chapter 7, the 144,000 are all chosen from the people of Israel, and their tribes are listed...
DerrickthePinecone 1 year ago
If you assume you are going to be raptured before the Tribulation, pridefully, and it not be according to readiness like Revelation 3.10 then you will enter the Tribulation and assume the several million that are taken up are not Christians, even accuse the brethren (Rev. 12.10), because if they were Christians you assume you would have been received up also, thus deceived and may take the mark of the beast as well. Pretribulation onlyists are in a troubling state of mind.
Parture 1 year ago
@Parture My friend, pre-trib makes more sense. There are many reasons why the true Christians of this dispensation cannot be on the earth during the tribulation! One has to understand the language that was being used during that time. There are many reasons why there will be a pre-trib rapture, my friend. One reason is because Israel is the focus of the end times, not the present church: During the Church age there are three classes of people: Jews, Gentiles, and the Church (1 Cor. 10:32)...
DerrickthePinecone 1 year ago
@Parture Another reason: Jesus sd in Matt 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; & then shall the end come." The gospel of the kingdom was "...Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matt 4:17). But, Paul preached the gospel of grace which is: Jesus Christ, the Son of God, freely gave His life as a sacrifice for our sins. He was crucified, buried, & rose from the dead on the third day (1 Cor 15:1-4).
DerrickthePinecone 1 year ago
@Parture Paul wrote in Galatians 1:8 that if anyone "preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Thus we know that this present predominantly Gentile church must be removed to allow the worldwide preaching of the gospel of the kingdom that Paul did not preach to us.
DerrickthePinecone 1 year ago
@Parture Another reason: The tabernacle of David: Referring to Peter's visit to the house of Cornelius, James sd, "God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. & to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, & will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down..." (Acts 15:14-16). After what? After God takes out of the Gentiles "a people for his name" (Christians).
DerrickthePinecone 1 year ago
Of course there're some Jews mixed in, for there's no difference within the present Church. Thus the filling of the Church must be completed prior to rebuilding of the temple, which is prior to the midpoint of the tribulation (Dan 9:27 & 2Thess2:4). Once God is through calling out a people for His name from among the Gentiles, He'll return His attention back to Israel, rebuildng the temple. Prior to this, the believers in this age must be removed from the scene, being caught up into heaven.
DerrickthePinecone 1 year ago
Anthr reason: The fulness of the Gentiles! After discussing the analogy of the good olive tree & the wild olive tree, Paul reveals the mystery in Rom 11:25-26, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved."
DerrickthePinecone 1 year ago
@Parture Once again we see that it's not until after the last Gentile becomes a Christian that God resumes his program with the nation of Israel. Another reason: We don't know the day of the rapture. We will not know the date, but we are told to watch & know the general time of the end. There's no warning for the rapture, as you know. However, Dan 9:27 tells us that the 2nd coming is seven years AFTER the Antichrist makes his covenant with Israel & 3-1/2 yrs after he breaks the covenant.
DerrickthePinecone 1 year ago
@Parture Therefore . . . Christians cannot be left on earth during the whole tribulation or even the first half, because we'd know the exact date of the rapture, contradicting scripture. If the post-tribulationists or mid-tribulationists were correct, we would have a seven year or three & one half year notification before the rapture...
DerrickthePinecone 1 year ago
Revelation 3.10 says "Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that [hour] which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." This is a condition. Do all Christians do this? Of course not, so not all believers are raptured before the Tribulation. The same is true of Luke 21.36, Matt. 24.40-41,42.
Parture 1 year ago
All the debt problems can go away if they print tonnes of money.
Parture 1 year ago
My Aunt was asked during a visit to her Dr. what religion she is? Not by the Dr. but by the administators for redords! It had nothing to do with treatment. I can kind of understand that if something critical happens they may want to know what type of clergy to contact for you but still this is creepy.
KamilahAngel 1 year ago
It's so close, I believe they are setting the table right now for the marriage supper of the lamb.
southerngent253 1 year ago
Right on message! Don't be of the world!
hiyosilver100 1 year ago
I am SO GLAD you guys are telling people to prepare!!!
ALL Christians need to be ready for the difficult days ahead.
shoeman3434 1 year ago 3
The clock is ticking!
DerrickthePinecone 1 year ago 3