"Morality Without Gods" Massimo Pigliucci Pt.1

[dbes02]

The Dilemma is not saying that morality can't come from a god, surely it's about the problem of saying thst its ABSOLUTE morality.

[SelfAware1]

if jesus died for our sins then why do we still have original sin? why do we still need to baptize babies? any christian want to take this on? i would love to hear you explain away this haunting contradiction in your silly belief system.

[mashmiles]

Massimo just went ham in this mothafucka

[AThagoras]

Pigliucci for Pope!

[Donnievil]

Wow, that is such a deep argument...against gods who are based entirely on human standards and (as he mentioned) regularly fickle.

It does nothing to establish any foundation for morality or ethics, or to deal with an absolute and immutable deity such as God.

[SelfAware1]

@Donnievil what are you saying? you disagree with his argument? cuz im willing to argue on his behalf if you feel he hasnt adequetly answered the question... but maybe i misunderstood your comment.

[Donnievil]

@SelfAware1 The comment is quite simple. he argues against theistic morality based solely on someone else's arguments regarding gods who are based on human beings; then uses the argument that since the gods are fickle they are not adequate for a moral foundation. I agree with that last line because those gods are based on humans and the human are just as fickle as the gods they invented, so what the argument really boils down to is that humans are inadequate for morality without God.

[Pandamanrr]

There is no such thing as universal standards for good and wrong. What we as humans should be concerned with is. Is it good for us and our sovereignty? Everyone should strive towards their own indepedence.Let that serve as a guiding principle when dealing with others.

[SelfAware1]

@Pandamanrr the guiding principle for dealing with others should be like the social contract by hobbes, where basically he says (even tho im taking it a little further i think) that you should treat others how you would like to be treated so a society can be stable. i dont want my daughter raped or my mom killed or my car stolen, so i dont do those things to others, its a mutually reinforcing type of situation. ones own indepence can lead to very unethical things if taken too far.

[SelfAware1]

@Pandamanrr basically, if people want to live in a stable and peaceful society there are certain rules we all have to play by, and these are the grounds for morality, that stem from evolution as social primates. the subtleties of morality go deeper, but i beleive this is solid ground to stand on. with out a god, we need some solid ground to stand on obvioulsy. im totally cool with naturalistic morality.

[buddybleau]

Before god created the universe, what was he doing? I know. For eons god was in the dark, sitting on his ass, picking his nose, and farting. Then he got a brilliant idea. God said: (to himself) I know what I'll do! I'll create some little people that look just like me. I will make them adore me like crazy, and those that don't, well, I'll just burn their asses in a pit of flames. That should do it. (Sounds like an ego problem to me.)

[SelfAware1]

@buddybleau haha well said.... proving that man made god in his image, not the other way around...

[Imaginefree69]

Evolution supplies all that is needed for the development

of codes of conduct that preserve and facilitate

survival and co-operation,

which is precisely what these "laws" do.

Such sensitivities in no way support your particular god.

In fact, as Christians believe that their most heinous acts

will be magically vanished and forgotten via human sacrifice,

they actually have very little incentive to act in a moral manner.

Hmmm..

That just might explain a hell of a lot.

[buddybleau]

God created Adam and then later realized Adam was lonely because he had no mate. Only then did he create Eve. Do you know why? He fucked up! God said he was sorry that he brought on the great flood. Do you know why? He fucked up! Don't tell me God doesn't fuck up!

[Imaginefree69]

@buddybleau God repents regularly! Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. 2 Samuel 24:16 the LORD repented him of the evil Joel 2:13 the LORD your God... repenteth him of the evil Amos 7:3 The LORD repented for this Amos 7:6 The LORD repented for this 1 Chronicles 21:15 the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil Jeremiah 15:6 saith the LORD...I am weary with repenting

[juan7321]

GOds??? maybe, possibly....but a monotheistic god ( Christian god ) is not applicable to either one of those questions..#1)god doesn't have to chose, the thing about omnipotency is you already have all information, nay you are all the information. So theres no deciding theres just acting.#2)God is not limited by his own law or creation, the lord is not separate from the laws of which he made this universe run off of. Laws & morality derive from god, it (god) being perfect doesn't fuck up.

[SelfAware1]

@juan7321 haha terrible argument. if god is all knowing then how can we have free will? if god is all good AND all powerful then why do we have so much evil? and dont say free will, because then you have to explain away why god supposedly knows everything, so he knows that you will rape little girls before you actually do, so there is no free will. and if god is all good and all powerful then how can he create a place with so much evil in it? it would be impossible from a god who only knows good

[FuzzyDuck]

Good stuff!

[mjr256]

Massimo's awesome!