I remember these debates well. Turner may have been right, but this clip shows the power of charisma--which, Mulroney, unfortunately, had loads of. Mulroney's self confidence beat Turner down really badly, which is sad, because I think that Turner was basically a good guy. It just shows how he who excels at gamesmanship will win--often, for worse.
the true issue at hand. which mulrooney cleverly (though to me it just sounds moronic. the whole ".. i resent the fact that.." so obvious that he's just using patriotic rhetoric to avoid the issue) diverted attention from was that the free trade deal that was signed wasn't really a free trade deal. it gave the US just about all the cards. but mulrooney knew the canadian people were as clueless to that fact as he may have been. and the idea of free trade was good for a lot of votes.
Levi's moves its factory to Mexico along with all the jobs. Workers are paid considerably less with no benefits. Levi's are more expensive now than ever. That is a microcosm of Nafta's flaws.
People, do you realize that all of these political "debates" are just carefully orchestrated skits acted out for the entertainment of the gullible, voting public??
Free trade has proven to be an economic driver for Canada and many other countries, as well. Free trade increases competition and better prices on goods for consumers and also, as a result of increased competition, it also encourages companies to be more efficient and productive; which benefits the companies themselves and consumers who get a greater variety of better quality of products at a lower price; that is what competition does or part of what it does in a marketplace. Mulroney was right.
Turner speaks facts and truth and loses, Mulroney speaks lies with a hint of charisma mixed with superficial charm and a ton of confidence and "wins". It's a common story I see with conservatives. Anti-intellectual, morally disgusting, it's all about how can I earn the trust of as many morons in the country as I can who don't understand the importance of having taxes and being accountable for the whole, rather than a few
Turner was so wrong. He was a good honest man, but he totally got this one wrong. One of the reason that Canada's economy has done so well, the reason that we're doing so much better than the US and the rest of the world, is because of this very deal.
@schnuurtchke Free trade allows Americans to take all of our jobs, and for local business to be replaced by American ones who can sell stuff for cheaper.
Can anyone see the relationship here with the late Jack Layton vs Harper? It's scary how history repeats itself, and yet the bad apples always seem to get the big chair.
You should get your facts straight or educate yourself. Without FreeTrade we would have been worse off.
Listen to Turner again. We have turned into a Colony of the US. Fear mongering is the Liberal trademark.
Canada has one of the best economies in the world, and as a member of the Cdn Mfg Association I will tell you that manufacturing has never been stronger. That is a direct result of Free Trade.
According to Statistics Canada's Labour Force Survey for February released Friday March 7, manufacturing now only accounts for 11.6 per cent of total employment in Canada, which is a record low. In 2002, manufacturing represented 15 per cent of Canadian employment.
Great comment, and tells me a lot about you and what kind of person you are. I usually prefer to spend my time conversing with someone who takes the time to educate themselves on the topic. Get back to me when you actually know what you are talking about "little buddy"
Did Canada become a colony of the US? No, in fact the Chretien Liberals expanded the agreement in 1994. Why? Becasue they saw the postive benefits.
@newtonsnews wow for a 51 year old boy you are just so educated, mature!!!!!!,.relax , i realize 20 years ago you didn't think you would be trolling people on youtube and living in your parent's basement now just relax little one better days ahead, you will get that trailer of your dreams soon.
Well, Turner got it right! Since then we have sent the majority of Our manufacturing base overseas. Things have gotten much much worse since this video. If it wasn't for easy finance money we'd possibly be broke. All those Masons who designed this better repent for what they'be done to their country.
Brian Mulroney and John Turner - both men loved their country - their visions for their country were different - right or wrong - it was a good debate! Canada is a wonderful country and sometimes it survives not because of but in spite of its politicians! I'm Blessed to be a citizen of Canada - God keep our land glorious and free!
Naturally John Turner would want to support the free-trade agreement because it is BETTER for Canada. However, Turner is the main opposition against Mulroney and thus he opposes it.
That's a pretty common problem with politics: I'm not opposed to you because I think the idea is bad; I'm opposed to you because I'm the official opposition.
Look at it this way: if Turner agreed with Mulroney on free-trade, then he wouldn't be able to distinguish himself from Mulroney.
@PlugOutTuneIn yea i know, its the same always with conservatives. dishonest arguments, superficial glib, arrogant, indifferent to helping the country. i find liberals have much more integrity, at least the old liberals lol
@PlugOutTuneIn If it was so bad, why then did the liberals ratify NAFTA after it? I think I've found 20 people with thumbs up to your comment who are brain dead.
Some people are eating shit in the streets, their homes are being foreclosed, Well-paid jobs are non-existent...yet, they still suck the cock of the devil, or in this case Mulroney. There's no doubt when you lose your dignity (and even your Country) you become a cowardly maggot, like a rape victim defending the rapist!. Canada belongs to Big Business thanks to NAFTA, and if you don't like it, I'll send the G20 cops to beat the shit outta you for speaking up!!!. Can u say 3rd World country?!!
@GrifterUno that may have been the most ignorant thing i have ever read in my entire life. its people like you that make me despise youtube comments. You tried, and failed. Go educate yourself before posting such ridiculous comments.
@rydawggggg Bla, bla, bla...what did you say? wasted a lot of space and you didn't say nothing!!!...and what's with this "you tried and failed" nonsense. What are you? 11 years old. Next time you wanna answer a comment directed at no one in particular, better back up your bullshit claims...even though the proof is on TV everyday when you watch the news, but a blind little girl like you wouldn't know it, unless it was part of "Jersey Shore".
75% of Canada's economy was already tied to the US. Trudeau and Pearson had decades to try to diversify our trade. Diefenbaker tried to do so, but Canada turned against him. In 1981 and 1982, the US Congress was beginning to talk about protectionism. Imagine what would happen if they put up massive trade barriers. That's 75% of our economy! NAFTA was the necessary action to make sure the US could not do that to us. Mulroney inherited that condition because of Liberals. He did the right thing.
Seems like Turner here really hyped up the melodrama here, didn't he? Whether or not he was right can be debated till we're all blue in the face but Turner based his arguments on hysteria and failed to include any facts to back up his claims.
As for Mulroney, he seemed to take Turner's accusations of selling out Canada quite personally. In my mind, he may have been crooked but he seemed to actually believe that his move would aid Canada. It's up to us to decide whether or not it did....
This debate is silly - the real story is free trade. For all those here who slam the decision, I've noticed somehow almost none of you slam Jean Chretien for EXPANDING free trade to Mexico after he said he was AGAINST free trade with The United States. The issue is settled. We are not "a colony of The United States" as Turner says. Chretien's revearsal in1993 was right; Turner was lost on this one.
I'm a card-carrying NDPer, I hate the Conservatives, but, I could never bring myself to hate Brian Mulroney like the rest of Canadians do. Or, the majority. I don't know why. Maybe because he was a Red Tory. Maybe because I believe he truly loved his country and wanted the best for it. Stephen Harper, I believe, hates his own country and its people because of what he perceives as an almost innate left-leaning ideology. Stephen Harper loves the USA. I have no problem hating Stephen Harper.
@russellrush101 - did you look at my channel, you fucking moron? We have a lot in common, as far as respecting Canadian soldiers. My great grandfather fought with Louis Riel in the Northwest Rebellion. My father served in WWII with the Royal Canadian Engineers. A lot of my channel is devoted to the Canadian soldier. And you call me a commie because I said I belong to the NDP? You're a fucking idiot, a worthless piece of shit pondscum. Go kill yourself, you fuckwit. 34 years old? Holy fuck.
@ApocalypsePlough well said, that's absolutely correct. stephen harper does not like this country. He's the most american president I've ever seen, and I have a notion that he secretly wants to turn this country into a christian nation.
I know mulroney wasn't perfect and has been corrupt - like most of the politicians(shreiber affair and mining companies) - but he still managed to run Canada as a great leader. I am a sovereignist and I believe that if the negotiations that he tried to conduct in order to resolve the constitutional debate would have worked, I wouldn't need to. He was a real leader, not like Harper who only cares about keeping power without resolving any of the real problems this country faces.
Mulroney tried to avoid legitimate criticism from Turner by playing the Patriotism card....much like Bush was doing when he pushed for his war on Iraq.
@aa0324 Yes but it turned out Bush was a war criminal and a liar while Mulroney obtained what he was looking for : more economical activities. I see a little difference there.
This hatred and fear of our American cousins; the close friends and important trading partners that they are, really seems to be bordering on psychopathy!
mulroney is a traitor and should be hunted down and hung by his genitals for the traitoris acts he commited, now his son should also pay the price for what he did to canada.
I'm puzzled as to why everyone always says that Turner gave Mulroney a run for his money in this debate. His criticisms of free trade bordered on hysteria (and turned out to be false). Mulroney's plea for seriousness is entirely fitting.
Turner was making a political argument that trade agreements undermine sovereign decision making. So how did this criticism turn out to be false? Sure, a lot remains untested, but NAFTA has some pretty radical restrictive mechanisms in it favouring multinational finance over public policy making (Chpt 11 in particular) . For example, would water ever be traded between provinces as a commodity, we would be forced to sell it to buyers in the American market.
This is all an act. I`ll bet they`re good buddies in real life and wanna have people believe the hate each other so they can get inflated salaries as party leaders. Politics is a big scam. Watch hockey instead!
I don't think he is / was a good politician, I think he's ass. "be serious"...ya right...be serious about saying that I've done nothing wrong", and after he says "I made a mistake and took the money and and didn't pay taxes on it". They say he payed taxes on the money he got from the german guy but over 5 years later...?? If I did that I would be in jail...
He's a crook and will always be a crook.
In Iraq there are terrorists, in Canada we hve politicians...:)
Mulroney sold us out!. Free trade is not good for the Americans or the Canadians. It has given up the rights of the people to have ownership of their resources and it put the ownership of resources into the hands of corporations! You are not a country but a numbered commodity!
Brian Mulroney is a reallly good orator. But free trade sucks, Meech Lake was a terrible idea, Mulroney was not a good Prime Minister; but a good politician.
I remember watching this debate on CBC, back then..& it was not a pretty forecast......we ended up with a "bick in the kalls" from Mulroney,..& his scandals...but we are still here!! Whew! I MISS Chretien, myself...
anyone who agrees with Mulroney has NO EDUCATION...just posters who have ZERO education...because of this jackass Mulroney, we are foreign owned...Turner is the one who had it right
not really. Most of our jobs today our because of free trade. Americans buy our wood, our oil..you name it. Were competing on a global free market. Very few economists will tell u protectionism is good.
Boy Turner sure came back fighting after what happened in the 80s. He was so right to and made Mulroney look like a child, all he needed to do though was either accuse Mulroney of believing he didn't love Canada, or make him state an actual opinion.
I will admit that in this clip Turner seems much more convincing and has much better points. I am no economist and I do not know much about whether or not free trade is good or bad for Canada, but Mulroney just kept spouting " I love Canada a lot" and "be serious." Almost child like.
@dwall57, the coward that deletes his stupid and insecure remarks, the truth must surely sting, keep living in unreasonable paranoia about the Americans; it will keep you from focusing on reality and allow you to project outward at a boogeyman of your own devising.
um in1812 both sides invaded one another and held possessions until war's conclusion, a truce that saw Britain relent, the US did not do battle north of Detroit or in the Quebec territories before British invasion.
Sorry revisionist history is taught by paranoid kooks masquerading as historians up north but those "historians" have long been taken to task for their ingenuous rewriting of historical accounts but regardless if living in an alternate 1812 is how you want to justify 2010 go ahead.
@llehman84 its not 1812 anymore, wake up. america got what it wanted out of NAFTA, we are now foreign owned because of that act....its a shame most canadians are stoo stupid to understand its implications
You think less trade with the US would have shielded recession? The US gets a cold and the world gets a flu economically that is just the way it is since half the planet's Fortune 500 companies are in three American states: Texas, New York and California.
Stop trading on Wall Street and participating in NAFTA and permitting American business expansion across the border and maybe you'd have a point but you know that isn't going to happen.
So long as you drink a Coca Cola the US is present.
@mroy88, in the other socialist/communist/marxist CBC vid that i commented on i got 6 thumbs down 4 saying trudeau was a toalitarian, so i dont doubt that people like u who want the government to control their life, often dont agree with things like free trade.
@tonygmilan7 in your world of free trade, foreign interests control us. the majority of all our sectors, gas, oil, manufacturing and so on are owned by foreign companies. do you know how many sectors in the US are owned by foreign interests.....ZERO
@mroy88. we compete for foreign interest to get profit. if we dont have the resources, or people who want to do the jobs, we findthe best matched individuals to do so. y do u think when u call bell u get a station in mumbai. canadians dont want to be in an office talking on phones for long hours, so we outsource it to places lke india where they need the jobs. with free trade, the people win, not the government.
@tonygmilan7 Ya they would rather be flipping burgers or stocking shelves at Wal-Mart! Get real dude. At one time bell had a strong union and people were paid a good wage to talk on phones! Our unions our broken, our standard of living has gone down and who gives a damn if people in Mumbai have jobs. I'm a Canadian first! Let Mumbai look after themselves! Freetrade has destroyed us!
Is that really the pinnacle of Canadian pride? That British loyalists and emissaries living in Canada launched an invasion of the United States from Canada? The preeminent military power of the era and the nation that you are still ceremonially bitch toward versus a brand new rag tag nation that rebelled?
Man, no wonder you guys are paranoid, you live in 1812.
Mulroney was a lying bastard we are still paying off the huge deb he ran up. all you dumb asses who voted for him should pay higher taxes to pay this deb of ad make up for their mistake. Never vote conservatives as they just don't know ow to run the economy It took Chretian and Martin to et the economy back in order and then Harper screws it up again.
Woahhh... what was this? Is this how we used to do debates?
Because this is approximately 1000x better than the retardese bullshit that passes for debates now a days, with the kitchen table, and complete with the 0 Seat Elizabeth May, the Quebec Pandering nothing useful to add Gilles Duceppe, and Jack Layton interrupting the big boys every 10 seconds so he can get some camera time for the first time since the last election.
domtar76,"Our national debt is held in bonds owned by Canadian citizens"?
"You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."
The bulk of our debt is owned by foreigners. Income tax does NOT go to Canada but to the debt. Our labour is the guarantee for that debt. Watch on You Tube 'Oh Canada-Our Bought and Sold Out Land' if you love Canada.
domtar76, Our Debt was $18 Billion in 1974. We paid interest to ourselves via The BOC. Today it's heading toward 800 Billion,anymore Bailouts and we'll be in the Trillion Club[YE-HA!]. Privatizeing the national debt[Trudeau biggest mistake] has created a BIG debt. We pay compound interest to foreigners when we could pay it to ourselves WHY? 5% of our loans are made through the BOC and the rest is with international Banks. Where does the money to go toward the debt come from? The same banks.
Weak answer to 1] A business should make enough money to keep it's doors open [Pay it's employees and owners etc.] If nobody goes to a Fair Trade coffee shop or Planet Organic then they wont stay open.
2] Our exports have trippled thanks to the U.S.A. Since Bush/Clinton/Bush & Obama the U.S. has gone from the No. 1 Creditor nation to the NO. 1 Debtor. 70% of the U.S. economy is consumer driven. Back in 1990 the U.S still made things for themselves.3] Where are the Good Jobs?
'Free trade made Canada more prosperous. Political independence was not compromised.' Tapxin Canada manufactures nothing, we have little farming left [Poison free that is], we spend money on junk we don't need, our education teaches us how to go into debt so that we can stock shelves at Wal-Mart, our national debt is paid to a private foreign controled banking system and we've not been compromised?
Muldooney said it best - 'Please be serious...please...'
Go to Industry Canada's TDO database. If you look at Canada's top 25 exporting industries, 18 of those are manufacturing industries. The big ones include automobile manufacturing, aerospace, pharmaceuticals, paper mills and metal/petroleum smelting/refining.
Our national debt - which is low - is held mostly in bonds owned by Canadian citizens.
Free trade serves to compromise the interests of cartels, not consumers and competitive businesses. Reducing barriers has permitted a free-flow of inexpensive goods and the expansion of our export industry. What exactly is the problem? It is natural for the primary and secondary sectors of the economy of a developed nation to decline, this comes primarily as a result of increases in automation and efficiency.
Like Turner was like so massively wrong DouglasEdward84. Muldooney was like sooo right dude. Since that 'Commercial Document' the lion share of all our manufacturing infrastructure has gone to sweat shop nations. Manufacturing is the life blood of the nation state. He who controls the money makes the rules. A nations true independence derives from it's ability to maintain a strong economic/social infrastructure in manufacturing,farming,education,banking etc.
I remember these debates well. Turner may have been right, but this clip shows the power of charisma--which, Mulroney, unfortunately, had loads of. Mulroney's self confidence beat Turner down really badly, which is sad, because I think that Turner was basically a good guy. It just shows how he who excels at gamesmanship will win--often, for worse.
Coaljet 2 weeks ago
the true issue at hand. which mulrooney cleverly (though to me it just sounds moronic. the whole ".. i resent the fact that.." so obvious that he's just using patriotic rhetoric to avoid the issue) diverted attention from was that the free trade deal that was signed wasn't really a free trade deal. it gave the US just about all the cards. but mulrooney knew the canadian people were as clueless to that fact as he may have been. and the idea of free trade was good for a lot of votes.
jamiejamiejamiejamie 1 month ago
Mulroney was a deeply flawed PM, but this is one that he was definitely on the right side of.
Alsadius 1 month ago
In terms of charisma and passion, Stephen Harper couldn't hold a candle up to these two...
dromeasaur 1 month ago
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dromeasaur 1 month ago
Studies by OECD says canada is worse off after free trade. Look at the numbers and stats you morons.
rTests334 1 month ago
Levi's moves its factory to Mexico along with all the jobs. Workers are paid considerably less with no benefits. Levi's are more expensive now than ever. That is a microcosm of Nafta's flaws.
nevrgreen 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
People, do you realize that all of these political "debates" are just carefully orchestrated skits acted out for the entertainment of the gullible, voting public??
It's all a debacle, a con game.
cheeriosinabowl 2 months ago
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cheeriosinabowl 2 months ago
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cheeriosinabowl 2 months ago
Free trade has proven to be an economic driver for Canada and many other countries, as well. Free trade increases competition and better prices on goods for consumers and also, as a result of increased competition, it also encourages companies to be more efficient and productive; which benefits the companies themselves and consumers who get a greater variety of better quality of products at a lower price; that is what competition does or part of what it does in a marketplace. Mulroney was right.
ementormike 3 months ago
Where's NAFTA now Mulroney? huh?
elo333333333 3 months ago
Turner speaks facts and truth and loses, Mulroney speaks lies with a hint of charisma mixed with superficial charm and a ton of confidence and "wins". It's a common story I see with conservatives. Anti-intellectual, morally disgusting, it's all about how can I earn the trust of as many morons in the country as I can who don't understand the importance of having taxes and being accountable for the whole, rather than a few
Freethinker12341 3 months ago
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Freethinker12341 3 months ago
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Freethinker12341 3 months ago
free trade was right. mulroney wins
teeray12 3 months ago
I heard both are Leafs fans.
leafyutube 4 months ago
John Turner is arguing with Jay Leno's father.....I fucking hate Leno
themooddisorders 4 months ago 2
Turner was right
themooddisorders 4 months ago
Turner was so wrong. He was a good honest man, but he totally got this one wrong. One of the reason that Canada's economy has done so well, the reason that we're doing so much better than the US and the rest of the world, is because of this very deal.
schnuurtchke 4 months ago
@schnuurtchke Free trade allows Americans to take all of our jobs, and for local business to be replaced by American ones who can sell stuff for cheaper.
MajBlood 3 months ago
Mulroney's a prick!
toastichedu 4 months ago
Mulroney was put as prime minister by the americans, same with harper!!!!!!!!
harrisonconstantinou 4 months ago
@YottaPixel I meant the Loonie.
HUTINAK 4 months ago
@YottaPixel oh yes, that's right
HUTINAK 4 months ago
Thanks Bry for the GST and the Toonie
HUTINAK 4 months ago
If only the NDP and the Liberals were only ONE party back then...
sonic2277 4 months ago
Can anyone see the relationship here with the late Jack Layton vs Harper? It's scary how history repeats itself, and yet the bad apples always seem to get the big chair.
PaulGrantDesigns 5 months ago
"subsidy war with the united states on terms of definition" I guess that defines the whole softwood lumber situation.
Kalicranston 5 months ago 12
Conservatives MAKE me sick >:\
canadamatters 5 months ago
@dino33ca
You should get your facts straight or educate yourself. Without FreeTrade we would have been worse off.
Listen to Turner again. We have turned into a Colony of the US. Fear mongering is the Liberal trademark.
Canada has one of the best economies in the world, and as a member of the Cdn Mfg Association I will tell you that manufacturing has never been stronger. That is a direct result of Free Trade.
newtonsnews 5 months ago
@newtonsnews what a joke you are
According to Statistics Canada's Labour Force Survey for February released Friday March 7, manufacturing now only accounts for 11.6 per cent of total employment in Canada, which is a record low. In 2002, manufacturing represented 15 per cent of Canadian employment.
yeah an economy without jobs, sure little buddy
cindyns1 5 months ago
@cindyns1
"what a joke you are"?
Great comment, and tells me a lot about you and what kind of person you are. I usually prefer to spend my time conversing with someone who takes the time to educate themselves on the topic. Get back to me when you actually know what you are talking about "little buddy"
Did Canada become a colony of the US? No, in fact the Chretien Liberals expanded the agreement in 1994. Why? Becasue they saw the postive benefits.
newtonsnews 4 months ago
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@newtonsnews wow for a 51 year old boy you are just so educated, mature!!!!!!,.relax , i realize 20 years ago you didn't think you would be trolling people on youtube and living in your parent's basement now just relax little one better days ahead, you will get that trailer of your dreams soon.
cindyns1 4 months ago
Well, Turner got it right! Since then we have sent the majority of Our manufacturing base overseas. Things have gotten much much worse since this video. If it wasn't for easy finance money we'd possibly be broke. All those Masons who designed this better repent for what they'be done to their country.
dino33ca 5 months ago
Mr. Turner was sooo right. Free trade has cost us countless jobs, countless industries, and has caused us irreparable damage.
rgbrook 5 months ago
Brian Mulroney and John Turner - both men loved their country - their visions for their country were different - right or wrong - it was a good debate! Canada is a wonderful country and sometimes it survives not because of but in spite of its politicians! I'm Blessed to be a citizen of Canada - God keep our land glorious and free!
TimpleTapper 6 months ago
Oscar winning:)
13CIRCLE 6 months ago
"Mr. Turner, with a document that is cancelable on six months notice?" We should call Mulroney's bluff and submit officially such a notice!
My vote would have went to John Turner, I think the Fathers of Confederation would also agree.
NAUresistance 7 months ago
i love old footage.
ReturnOfJackDawson 8 months ago
i want to live in the late 1980's
harrisonconstantinou 8 months ago 2
Too bad politicians aren't as energizing as this any more.
ericleb01 9 months ago 5
wow...stuffy white men debating over 20 years ago....things have really changed huh?
antmlova1 9 months ago
If Mulroney loves Canada so much. Why did he move to live in South Florida after he left politics?
Footballer21 9 months ago 4
@Footballer21 He loved Canada, just not the weather. Oh, and he didn't love the legal investigations, either.
PostmanPat1919 8 months ago
@Footballer21 ah come on fuck off that's a low blow comment.
ReturnOfJackDawson 8 months ago
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BBQFanNo1 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Footballer21 Yeah why did he move to South Florida after he left politics if he loves Canada such much?
BBQFanNo1 5 months ago
If you have a corrupt policy to ram through, just say you love Canada.
legithax0r 9 months ago 3
Turner was so right....
mamba52us 9 months ago 4
Turner wins.
Gshularful 9 months ago
Mulroney was great is this, but the reality was that Turner was right....
PlugOutTuneIn 9 months ago 22
@PlugOutTuneIn No, Turner was wrong. Canada is better off with free trade. Free trade has created prosperity and increased living standards
dingdongpingpong69 7 months ago
@PlugOutTuneIn
Naturally John Turner would want to support the free-trade agreement because it is BETTER for Canada. However, Turner is the main opposition against Mulroney and thus he opposes it.
That's a pretty common problem with politics: I'm not opposed to you because I think the idea is bad; I'm opposed to you because I'm the official opposition.
Look at it this way: if Turner agreed with Mulroney on free-trade, then he wouldn't be able to distinguish himself from Mulroney.
nairblin 6 months ago
@PlugOutTuneIn
Great for a twisted snake he was...people ate that BS up. I didn't.
Rustyshackleford08 4 months ago
Turner was wrong
suitgonewild 4 months ago 2
@PlugOutTuneIn yea i know, its the same always with conservatives. dishonest arguments, superficial glib, arrogant, indifferent to helping the country. i find liberals have much more integrity, at least the old liberals lol
Freethinker12341 4 months ago
@PlugOutTuneIn If it was so bad, why then did the liberals ratify NAFTA after it? I think I've found 20 people with thumbs up to your comment who are brain dead.
DigitalGrotto 3 months ago
ahahah man these guys are lousy actors. freemasonry really should focus on giving these guys better acting classes
suchafool990 9 months ago
Some people are eating shit in the streets, their homes are being foreclosed, Well-paid jobs are non-existent...yet, they still suck the cock of the devil, or in this case Mulroney. There's no doubt when you lose your dignity (and even your Country) you become a cowardly maggot, like a rape victim defending the rapist!. Canada belongs to Big Business thanks to NAFTA, and if you don't like it, I'll send the G20 cops to beat the shit outta you for speaking up!!!. Can u say 3rd World country?!!
GrifterUno 9 months ago
@GrifterUno that may have been the most ignorant thing i have ever read in my entire life. its people like you that make me despise youtube comments. You tried, and failed. Go educate yourself before posting such ridiculous comments.
rydawggggg 9 months ago
@rydawggggg Bla, bla, bla...what did you say? wasted a lot of space and you didn't say nothing!!!...and what's with this "you tried and failed" nonsense. What are you? 11 years old. Next time you wanna answer a comment directed at no one in particular, better back up your bullshit claims...even though the proof is on TV everyday when you watch the news, but a blind little girl like you wouldn't know it, unless it was part of "Jersey Shore".
GrifterUno 9 months ago
23 years later, The Free Trade agreement was the best thing for our country.
It is not even a political issue. The Liberals cried uncle and embraced it.
The liberals even reaped the rewards of free trade in the 90's
Exports have exploded. Thank-You for thinking about the next generation Prime Minister Mulroney! Thank -you for putting Canada first!
newtonbrook 10 months ago
@newtonbrook Free trade was originally Laurier's idea.
Murrison 9 months ago
The War of 1812 was, for the most part, a draw. There were no winners. Just losers, the Aboriginal peoples.
DLPanda 10 months ago
Our economic history since 1988 has been entirely born out by Mulroney's position.
FGN123 10 months ago 2
Turner was right!
dougat 10 months ago
@dougat turner was so right!
meloveicecream24 10 months ago 14
75% of Canada's economy was already tied to the US. Trudeau and Pearson had decades to try to diversify our trade. Diefenbaker tried to do so, but Canada turned against him. In 1981 and 1982, the US Congress was beginning to talk about protectionism. Imagine what would happen if they put up massive trade barriers. That's 75% of our economy! NAFTA was the necessary action to make sure the US could not do that to us. Mulroney inherited that condition because of Liberals. He did the right thing.
jasonfkg 11 months ago 2
ya thanks for NAFTA Brian...douche
badmongo0 11 months ago
Seems like Turner here really hyped up the melodrama here, didn't he? Whether or not he was right can be debated till we're all blue in the face but Turner based his arguments on hysteria and failed to include any facts to back up his claims.
As for Mulroney, he seemed to take Turner's accusations of selling out Canada quite personally. In my mind, he may have been crooked but he seemed to actually believe that his move would aid Canada. It's up to us to decide whether or not it did....
girlgarde 11 months ago
wow so many rational arguments being made in this vid
jbohler33 11 months ago
NAU ALMOST DONE NOW. TIME TO ACT.
LUCA7FOLD 11 months ago
Mulroney sold us out, but it all worked out for him did'nt it. Just take the cash filled envelopes and run like the i[con] of integrity he is ha ha.
nevrgreen 11 months ago
This debate is silly - the real story is free trade. For all those here who slam the decision, I've noticed somehow almost none of you slam Jean Chretien for EXPANDING free trade to Mexico after he said he was AGAINST free trade with The United States. The issue is settled. We are not "a colony of The United States" as Turner says. Chretien's revearsal in1993 was right; Turner was lost on this one.
ocdave99 11 months ago
I love the way Mulroney tries to spin this debate by talking about how patriotic he is. It's disgusting.
koishiou 11 months ago
Turner called it. Mulroney sold us out
Scobo11 1 year ago 2
@Scobo11
he did!
herautdeDieu 11 months ago
John Turner Won this, but Canada lost.
FUCK MULRONEY AND HIS BAND OF US PUPPETS.
AthranZala1988 1 year ago 2
Its too bad we were so stupid and voted Mulrony.
Rustyshackleford08 1 year ago 2
I'm a card-carrying NDPer, I hate the Conservatives, but, I could never bring myself to hate Brian Mulroney like the rest of Canadians do. Or, the majority. I don't know why. Maybe because he was a Red Tory. Maybe because I believe he truly loved his country and wanted the best for it. Stephen Harper, I believe, hates his own country and its people because of what he perceives as an almost innate left-leaning ideology. Stephen Harper loves the USA. I have no problem hating Stephen Harper.
ApocalypsePlough 1 year ago 2
@ApocalypsePlough Fuck you ya commie
russellrush101 1 year ago
@russellrush101 - did you look at my channel, you fucking moron? We have a lot in common, as far as respecting Canadian soldiers. My great grandfather fought with Louis Riel in the Northwest Rebellion. My father served in WWII with the Royal Canadian Engineers. A lot of my channel is devoted to the Canadian soldier. And you call me a commie because I said I belong to the NDP? You're a fucking idiot, a worthless piece of shit pondscum. Go kill yourself, you fuckwit. 34 years old? Holy fuck.
ApocalypsePlough 1 year ago
@ApocalypsePlough haha braaaaa its all jokes man, dont take youtube seriously
russellrush101 1 year ago
@russellrush101 wow ur a friekin douche
Freethinker12341 1 year ago
@ApocalypsePlough well said, that's absolutely correct. stephen harper does not like this country. He's the most american president I've ever seen, and I have a notion that he secretly wants to turn this country into a christian nation.
Freethinker12341 1 year ago
I know mulroney wasn't perfect and has been corrupt - like most of the politicians(shreiber affair and mining companies) - but he still managed to run Canada as a great leader. I am a sovereignist and I believe that if the negotiations that he tried to conduct in order to resolve the constitutional debate would have worked, I wouldn't need to. He was a real leader, not like Harper who only cares about keeping power without resolving any of the real problems this country faces.
sentenced988 1 year ago
Mulroney tried to avoid legitimate criticism from Turner by playing the Patriotism card....much like Bush was doing when he pushed for his war on Iraq.
aa0324 1 year ago 2
@aa0324 Yes but it turned out Bush was a war criminal and a liar while Mulroney obtained what he was looking for : more economical activities. I see a little difference there.
sentenced988 1 year ago
F*** U Mulroney
Picturemyface 1 year ago
This hatred and fear of our American cousins; the close friends and important trading partners that they are, really seems to be bordering on psychopathy!
webberjames 1 year ago
mulroney is a traitor and should be hunted down and hung by his genitals for the traitoris acts he commited, now his son should also pay the price for what he did to canada.
usarocks69 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Time has proven Turner wrong.
pittsky 1 year ago
these guys are neo nazis.
hulkmam3 1 year ago
I'm puzzled as to why everyone always says that Turner gave Mulroney a run for his money in this debate. His criticisms of free trade bordered on hysteria (and turned out to be false). Mulroney's plea for seriousness is entirely fitting.
agorlewski 1 year ago
@agorlewski
Turner was making a political argument that trade agreements undermine sovereign decision making. So how did this criticism turn out to be false? Sure, a lot remains untested, but NAFTA has some pretty radical restrictive mechanisms in it favouring multinational finance over public policy making (Chpt 11 in particular) . For example, would water ever be traded between provinces as a commodity, we would be forced to sell it to buyers in the American market.
OgallalaKnowhow 1 year ago
@agorlewski
No he was right, what happened over the past 23 years is proof, I don't know what country you are living in but we lost most of our industry.
Rustyshackleford08 1 year ago
Be serious....ya right Brian the bullshiter...
fierogt281 1 year ago
@fierogt281 lying brian
mars3750 1 year ago
This is all an act. I`ll bet they`re good buddies in real life and wanna have people believe the hate each other so they can get inflated salaries as party leaders. Politics is a big scam. Watch hockey instead!
leafyutube 1 year ago
I don't think he is / was a good politician, I think he's ass. "be serious"...ya right...be serious about saying that I've done nothing wrong", and after he says "I made a mistake and took the money and and didn't pay taxes on it". They say he payed taxes on the money he got from the german guy but over 5 years later...?? If I did that I would be in jail...
He's a crook and will always be a crook.
In Iraq there are terrorists, in Canada we hve politicians...:)
fierogt281 1 year ago
Mulroney sold us out!. Free trade is not good for the Americans or the Canadians. It has given up the rights of the people to have ownership of their resources and it put the ownership of resources into the hands of corporations! You are not a country but a numbered commodity!
jeremydb71 1 year ago 2
Brian Mulroney is a reallly good orator. But free trade sucks, Meech Lake was a terrible idea, Mulroney was not a good Prime Minister; but a good politician.
MajBlood 1 year ago 2
I had the honour of meeting John Turner in 1984 at a Pointe Claire convention. He is
a gorgeous dude and an extremely intelligent man! He looked me straight in the eye
when he shook hands with me and said hello. He is truly a great Canadian citizen.
GodivaGirl1 1 year ago
@GodivaGirl1 Yes, a great Canadian. Never mind the patting women on the bum, in public view thing.
Nomoreidsleft 1 year ago
ouch Mulroney just DESTROYED turner
wwefreakjon 1 year ago
@wwefreakjon actually Turner won this debate. Mulroney destroyed him in the 1984 election debate..............see ya
gcdcjccc 1 year ago
Good Day...eh???
I remember watching this debate on CBC, back then..& it was not a pretty forecast......we ended up with a "bick in the kalls" from Mulroney,..& his scandals...but we are still here!! Whew! I MISS Chretien, myself...
RetroCaptain 1 year ago
anyone who agrees with Mulroney has NO EDUCATION...just posters who have ZERO education...because of this jackass Mulroney, we are foreign owned...Turner is the one who had it right
mroy88 1 year ago
not really. Most of our jobs today our because of free trade. Americans buy our wood, our oil..you name it. Were competing on a global free market. Very few economists will tell u protectionism is good.
Mulroney was corrupt, but free trade is good.
ZakBrownrigg123 1 year ago
@ZakBrownrigg123 Next time you talk about the positives of the free trade agreement, leave out the "Americans buy our wood" thing.
klextro 1 year ago
Mulroney had it right.
nicoelle01 1 year ago
he dragged Canada kicking and screaming into the 21st century
ZakBrownrigg123 1 year ago
@ZakBrownrigg123 mulroney sold off this country, we are foreign owned now because of this jackass
mroy88 1 year ago
@nicoelle01 unfortunately you are not educated enough to understand what mulroney did to this country...shame on you for your ignorance
mroy88 1 year ago
Comment removed
nicoelle01 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ok, I'll bite. What does this have to do with my Master's degree in law?
I wish people would debate based on facts, instead of personal insults.
Perhaps you can explain to us why protectionism and trade barriers - the option advocated by Turner - would have been the better choice.
nicoelle01 1 year ago
Boy Turner sure came back fighting after what happened in the 80s. He was so right to and made Mulroney look like a child, all he needed to do though was either accuse Mulroney of believing he didn't love Canada, or make him state an actual opinion.
sniperdude12a 1 year ago 2
The Honourable Mr Turner called it!
looking back he is 100 PERCENT RIGHT!
canadastreetmedia 1 year ago 2
I will admit that in this clip Turner seems much more convincing and has much better points. I am no economist and I do not know much about whether or not free trade is good or bad for Canada, but Mulroney just kept spouting " I love Canada a lot" and "be serious." Almost child like.
MajBlood 1 year ago 2
@dwall57, the coward that deletes his stupid and insecure remarks, the truth must surely sting, keep living in unreasonable paranoia about the Americans; it will keep you from focusing on reality and allow you to project outward at a boogeyman of your own devising.
Speegs23 1 year ago
Ergonomics did fall, look, We are Still Here :)
MapleBalls 2 years ago
Also it appears Turner is fear mongering that Canada will be annexed into the US, pretty low tactic.
Speegs23 2 years ago
It's also a pretty legitimate criticism. I don't agree that it's "mere fear mongering".
picarddelta 2 years ago
The US has no interest in annexing Canada, if it did it would've done so 150 years ago.
Speegs23 2 years ago
Comment removed
dwall57 2 years ago
look up Canadian penis envy.
Speegs23 2 years ago
Comment removed
dwall57 1 year ago
@Speegs23 The US failed 200 years ago when it tried...The War of 1812
llehman84 1 year ago 2
um in1812 both sides invaded one another and held possessions until war's conclusion, a truce that saw Britain relent, the US did not do battle north of Detroit or in the Quebec territories before British invasion.
Sorry revisionist history is taught by paranoid kooks masquerading as historians up north but those "historians" have long been taken to task for their ingenuous rewriting of historical accounts but regardless if living in an alternate 1812 is how you want to justify 2010 go ahead.
Speegs23 1 year ago
@llehman84 its not 1812 anymore, wake up. america got what it wanted out of NAFTA, we are now foreign owned because of that act....its a shame most canadians are stoo stupid to understand its implications
mroy88 1 year ago
You think less trade with the US would have shielded recession? The US gets a cold and the world gets a flu economically that is just the way it is since half the planet's Fortune 500 companies are in three American states: Texas, New York and California.
Stop trading on Wall Street and participating in NAFTA and permitting American business expansion across the border and maybe you'd have a point but you know that isn't going to happen.
So long as you drink a Coca Cola the US is present.
Speegs23 2 years ago
INTENSE
meloveicecream24 2 years ago 2
freetrade has lobbied our government into selling off our infrastructure to the USA ..
we have lost The Bay
Labbat
Molsen
and many more of our large businesses
it seems to me just another way to leak money from our economy to theirs ...
mmgregoire1 2 years ago
Labatt isn't American owned. Fail.
RyanMatthewCampbell 2 years ago 2
European owned lol
jay92388 2 years ago
At the same time, you Canadians are investing in mining here in my homestate of Colorado.
lsnows 2 years ago
mr 300 thousands dollar , i am so happy i am not believe in politician
JerryMyersTV 2 years ago
Classic exchange between two of Canada's biggest political foes! Debates these days don't even come close to be as powerful as they used to be.
benmcd2007 2 years ago 6
Free trade made Canada more prosperous.
tonygmilan7 2 years ago 4
Free trade made Canada relevant, without it it wold be a large Denmark.
Speegs23 1 year ago
im canadian and i support free trade.
tonygmilan7 1 year ago
and you will thrive on accord of it.
Speegs23 1 year ago
@tonygmilan7 because you are uneducated...the only reason you support it
mroy88 1 year ago
@mroy88, in the other socialist/communist/marxist CBC vid that i commented on i got 6 thumbs down 4 saying trudeau was a toalitarian, so i dont doubt that people like u who want the government to control their life, often dont agree with things like free trade.
tonygmilan7 1 year ago
@tonygmilan7 in your world of free trade, foreign interests control us. the majority of all our sectors, gas, oil, manufacturing and so on are owned by foreign companies. do you know how many sectors in the US are owned by foreign interests.....ZERO
mroy88 1 year ago
@mroy88. we compete for foreign interest to get profit. if we dont have the resources, or people who want to do the jobs, we findthe best matched individuals to do so. y do u think when u call bell u get a station in mumbai. canadians dont want to be in an office talking on phones for long hours, so we outsource it to places lke india where they need the jobs. with free trade, the people win, not the government.
tonygmilan7 1 year ago
@tonygmilan7 Ya they would rather be flipping burgers or stocking shelves at Wal-Mart! Get real dude. At one time bell had a strong union and people were paid a good wage to talk on phones! Our unions our broken, our standard of living has gone down and who gives a damn if people in Mumbai have jobs. I'm a Canadian first! Let Mumbai look after themselves! Freetrade has destroyed us!
jeremydb71 1 year ago
Comment removed
karakolis 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Canada is not a country....Canada exists because we the glorious USA haven't invaded you......yet
gopconservative78 2 years ago
actually you guys tried to invade and failed, that is why Canada exists.
wonphi 2 years ago 20
Where is Ed Broadbent in this?
gundamWWW 1 year ago
come and invade in january then.
I bet you put on a winter coat and whine like a little school girl on her first period when it gets to 32F. Where ever you live.
ajgolfer1 2 years ago 2
Yeah, you tried that in 1812 - how did that work out for ya?
fishhead06 2 years ago 14
Is that really the pinnacle of Canadian pride? That British loyalists and emissaries living in Canada launched an invasion of the United States from Canada? The preeminent military power of the era and the nation that you are still ceremonially bitch toward versus a brand new rag tag nation that rebelled?
Man, no wonder you guys are paranoid, you live in 1812.
Speegs23 1 year ago
I'm respectfully declining the invitation to your nationalist pissing match, as stimulating as it sounds.
fishhead06 1 year ago
Bless your heart, this whole video is xenophobic pissing, Canadian style.
Speegs23 1 year ago
@fishhead06 we burnt down the red house!
loismustdie432 1 year ago
@fishhead06 u fucking inbread american u dont know anything.
Ryhatch 1 year ago
@Ryhatch "Inbread"? Are you call me a loaf of white sliced? ;-P
And really - American? - haven't you READ this thread? Jeebus.
fishhead06 1 year ago
Mulroney was a lying bastard we are still paying off the huge deb he ran up. all you dumb asses who voted for him should pay higher taxes to pay this deb of ad make up for their mistake. Never vote conservatives as they just don't know ow to run the economy It took Chretian and Martin to et the economy back in order and then Harper screws it up again.
rostant999 2 years ago 4
we should have just listened to Turner
bdurie1198 2 years ago
Canada, a rich counrty run by retards. We should all be living like saudis by birthright, but our leaders have no spine.
ronaldmac 2 years ago
Mulroney sold us out.
scotcandu 2 years ago 2
brian mulroney - perfect example of how absolute power corrupts absolutely even those who were honest at the beginning
FreeHeathen 2 years ago 3
Woahhh... what was this? Is this how we used to do debates?
Because this is approximately 1000x better than the retardese bullshit that passes for debates now a days, with the kitchen table, and complete with the 0 Seat Elizabeth May, the Quebec Pandering nothing useful to add Gilles Duceppe, and Jack Layton interrupting the big boys every 10 seconds so he can get some camera time for the first time since the last election.
We should do it like they did it back then.
jimmyk1111 2 years ago 7
domtar76,"Our national debt is held in bonds owned by Canadian citizens"?
"You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."
The bulk of our debt is owned by foreigners. Income tax does NOT go to Canada but to the debt. Our labour is the guarantee for that debt. Watch on You Tube 'Oh Canada-Our Bought and Sold Out Land' if you love Canada.
scottbuster2000 2 years ago 2
domtar76, Our Debt was $18 Billion in 1974. We paid interest to ourselves via The BOC. Today it's heading toward 800 Billion,anymore Bailouts and we'll be in the Trillion Club[YE-HA!]. Privatizeing the national debt[Trudeau biggest mistake] has created a BIG debt. We pay compound interest to foreigners when we could pay it to ourselves WHY? 5% of our loans are made through the BOC and the rest is with international Banks. Where does the money to go toward the debt come from? The same banks.
scottbuster2000 2 years ago
domtar76,
Weak answer to 1] A business should make enough money to keep it's doors open [Pay it's employees and owners etc.] If nobody goes to a Fair Trade coffee shop or Planet Organic then they wont stay open.
2] Our exports have trippled thanks to the U.S.A. Since Bush/Clinton/Bush & Obama the U.S. has gone from the No. 1 Creditor nation to the NO. 1 Debtor. 70% of the U.S. economy is consumer driven. Back in 1990 the U.S still made things for themselves.3] Where are the Good Jobs?
scottbuster2000 2 years ago
John Turner just sucked on TV. He always seemed 34% constipated. EEEEEEEEEEEEE...
ocdave99 2 years ago 4
In person he appears very very drunk.
domtar76 2 years ago 2
'Free trade made Canada more prosperous. Political independence was not compromised.' Tapxin Canada manufactures nothing, we have little farming left [Poison free that is], we spend money on junk we don't need, our education teaches us how to go into debt so that we can stock shelves at Wal-Mart, our national debt is paid to a private foreign controled banking system and we've not been compromised?
Muldooney said it best - 'Please be serious...please...'
You better Wake up!!!
scottbuster2000 2 years ago
Go to Industry Canada's TDO database. If you look at Canada's top 25 exporting industries, 18 of those are manufacturing industries. The big ones include automobile manufacturing, aerospace, pharmaceuticals, paper mills and metal/petroleum smelting/refining.
Our national debt - which is low - is held mostly in bonds owned by Canadian citizens.
Please, get the facts.
domtar76 2 years ago 2
Free trade serves to compromise the interests of cartels, not consumers and competitive businesses. Reducing barriers has permitted a free-flow of inexpensive goods and the expansion of our export industry. What exactly is the problem? It is natural for the primary and secondary sectors of the economy of a developed nation to decline, this comes primarily as a result of increases in automation and efficiency.
gunman806 2 years ago
Like Turner was like so massively wrong DouglasEdward84. Muldooney was like sooo right dude. Since that 'Commercial Document' the lion share of all our manufacturing infrastructure has gone to sweat shop nations. Manufacturing is the life blood of the nation state. He who controls the money makes the rules. A nations true independence derives from it's ability to maintain a strong economic/social infrastructure in manufacturing,farming,education,banking etc.
scottbuster2000 2 years ago