PSALM 50 What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? Seeing thou HATEst instruction, and casteth my words behind thee.
...These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.
Christ. If Joseph ever said that he would break the leg he stands on. Otherwise how can a person be a prophet if they teach not of Christ? Joseph taught alot about Christ as well did the prophets in the Bible. Just because some people do not believe the Joseph Smith story doesn't make it not true either. Their were many that saw him, talked with, and saw the Savior do many miracles but yet they denied him. Because they denied him does it make Christ any less than what he was?
@1MoNoMo It also says in the scriptures not to judge evil of people and what is of those who do James 4:11-12. If Joseph truly is an evil man. Then why can a person earnestly praying to know if the Book of Mormon is true. Find the truth. But you say they shouldn't do this and find out for themselves. Isn't that for them to choose not I or you?
I told you to read D&C 121. That explains why exemplary behavior is important in a man holding the "Holy Priesthood". Your argument is with D&C 121, not with me.
Where did I say "they shouldn't"? Of course they should--but not at the expense of applying rational thought and reason and study to the issue, too.
In what way am I "choosing for them"? There are at LEAST 2 sides to every claim and every story. All I'm suggesting is that one examine with a critical eye EVERY CLAIM made by men, both FOR and AGAINST. IOW, be FULLY INFORMED.
After the apostasy, Joseph Smith received a vision in the sacred grove and reorganized the church. This is the same church that existed before but it is the second time its on the earth. Just like if a product were sold in a store many years ago, and hadn't been around for many years, then suddenly it came out again, you would see "NEW" on the package, and everyone would be making a big deal about it because they remember having it before and are rejoicing that it is back again.
@bbradfordp Very good answer we all like the scripture in the New Testament Paul talks of that a prophet will bring back the Gospel because of the loss of the Gospel on the Earth. Acts 3:20-24.
Stay in school, bradford. You won't be serving Christ in the missionfield. You'll be serving the LDS Corporation, a business that pretends to be a "church".
Actually, we only have Joseph's word on that. No "2 or 3 witnesses" to establish the truth of his claim.
LDS, Inc IS NOT the same as the early church. It had no "presidents", no "tax-exempt, government approved corporation". It had no melchizedek priesthood.
No temples and no temple rituals and no "eternal marriage", etc, etc.
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was ONCE DELIVERED unto the saints.
@bdplist Which was once delivered that is past tense. Meaning whatever he is talking about he has told them about before but he has to send it again. Where does it say he wrote to Jude again?
@bdplist I know that Christ will only come once in the flesh to make salvation possible, but he will always declare salvation unto the righteous because he seeks to bring all men unto him. Question where does it say God will quit calling prophets? Where does it say that God will not declare his Gospel unto them again?
@BOON70 question 1) 1 Co 13 "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."
question 2) never says God will not declare His gospel
@bdplist What is charity? Charity is the purest of love or the love of Christ. Everything else will fail but the love of Christ never will. Your answer is wrong prophesied of what look at verse 12. Your like all the other Anti Mormons taking the scriptures out of context to make it mean what you want. Luke 16:16 ever wonder why were is italicized? Probably because that word was added by the translator because the word were is not in Greek.
@bdplist Mark 16:19 Hmm you make it sound as though he stayed their in his throne their is evidence in the Bible that isn't true. Who did Paul see? Yeah Christ went to go sit on his throne but also says other sheep I have that are not of this fold them also I must visit. John 10:16
@bdplist Where does it say in the scriptures that he didn't? About the scriptures you mean like quoting one verse and then saying whatever I want it to mean like you? If you want I can quote you an example where you did exactly this.
@BOON70 ACTS 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
@bdplist Well if you read on in the scriptures you find that its referring to the 2nd coming. Question why is that ever vision spoken of by the Mormon Church Christ floating in the air never standing on the Earth? But you still haven't taken not of Paul seeing Christ either. You may wonder why I ask you all these questions. Its to make your read about Mormonism and actually read something that is true about it for once.
@bdplist Acts 1:9 doesn't say he went all it says is he was taken up but doesn't say he stayed their forever. Where does it say Christ will no longer be seen by people till the 2nd coming? I will say again Paul saw Christ.
ACTS 1:9 while they beheld, he was taken up; and a CLOUD received him out of their sight.
11 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so COME IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN him go into heaven.
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Rev1:7 Behold, he cometh with CLOUDS; and EVERY EYE shall SEE him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
@bdplist Another question I have for you were does it say Christ work is done? As far as I know it will not be done till every person has an equal opportunity to learn of Christ.
The jesus of m0rm0nISM is a fraud He is the son of His own sister, He is the brother of His own mother, He is the uncle of His own brothers and sisters, and twice the son of his father.
@bdplist If what your trying to state is true the Jesus Stephan and Paul saw was a fraud. The whole world knew that Christ had left to be received into the heavens. When he comes back in a like manner the whole shall know then. No where does it say Christ will not come back and visit people like Paul and Stephan.
You know I went and found the answer but I am not going to tell you the answer. All this time you have been asking me questions but if I ask you a question you just ignore it. Why do you believe your religion is the true religion obviously preaching against Mormonism you feel you have more truth than Mormons.
@bdplist So what is revelation? Define religion - it is system of beliefs. Everyone has beliefs even those are not Christian. Everyone believes in right or wrong. Even saying you don't believe in anything that is a belief. So everyone has a religion wither they acknowledge that or not.
So do you think ppl will want to learn about your religion when you say "AFA LDS it is easy to see the Errors, the Fabrications & the Fraud." I bet alot of ppl from other religions like to talk to you.
will of the Father. I know that Brigham Young is a true prophet too. He wasn't perfect but out of the weak has the Lord called people because they are humble and rely not on their own strength but the Lord for help.
the truths that we find to be true and assure it by asking God about it. If we ignore them who else do we ignore? Remember Christ said I am the way the "truth" and the life. I know that man can get to know God personally because he wants us all to know him because this is life eternal (John 17:3). I know that their is a Prophet today Thomas S. Monson that he is our leader but the head of the church and who directs the Prophet is Jesus Christ. Through Jesus Christ are is revealed to us the
to your views by your misunderstanding of another persons religion or the scriptures. I wonder if you well ever look for the actual truth rather than babble on about different stuff. If you were truly a seeker of the truth you would of investigated more on Acts 7:55-56, accepted that Stephen saw the right hand of God literally, and maybe even discussed it with me. Instead you go on babbling about something else. You have quoted the scripture to me that Christ is the truth. So if we ignore
As I take only probably about 10 mins I find that you have only told half the story. You must take in mind that Moses was called God to in the Old Testament (Ex 4:16, 7:1) What is to be meant by this? Adam is the leader of the whole human race not that he is the Eternal God. What is also meant by this is Adam is the father of the whole human race (or any person that has ever received a mortal body) this includes Jesus. But is Adam the literal Father of Jesus? No. Again you try to bend people
@bdplist So are you willing to say that Moses is God it is plainly written in the Bible? So it can not be broken nor taken away that Moses was called God. (Ex 4:16, 7:1)
@bdplist Question what website our you pulling this off of. Obviously something that is Anti Mormon. I have sat here talking to you for 2 1/2 months. Your gonna have to give me some time to find all the stuff that you have stated. But as usual I know I am gonna find you only gave half the story as usual.
"we can say that to us there is but ONE living and TRUE God, and he is the FATHER OF OUR Lord Jesus Christ AND OF OUR SPIRITS. And when we get back to him and learn that he is actually our father...I tell you this as my belief about that personage who is called the Ancient of Days [ADAM] so on...To my mind and to my feelings those matters are all plain and easy to be understood. (Brigham Young, April 25, 1855 at the Deseret Theological Institute
The Lord answers on his time not our time. If you know much of the story Wilford Woodruff he had a friend that was praying to find the true church of Christ. He never saw it nor did he ever get to join it but he told Wilford that he would.
"At meeting of school of the prophets, President Young said Adam was Michael the Archangel and he was the father of Jesus Christ and was our God, and Joseph taught this principle." Journal of Wilford Woodruff, December 16, 1867
"At meeting of School of Prophets: President Young said Adam was Michael the Archangel, and he was the Father of Jesus Christ and was our God and that Joseph taught this principle." Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, Dec. 16, 1867
"I wish to refer to the first doctrine preached that ADAM was our Father and God. In the revelation called the Olive Leaf it says that the Devil gathered together the hosts of Hell, and Michael the Archangel gathered together the hosts of Heaven and he overcame the Devil and his angels, and this is the battle of the great God."
@BaurakAle7 I don't know the answer to every question nor do I claim to be the fountain of youth either. What Marten Luther started out I do feel is inspired but what it became I don't think he would of liked it. If you read about Martin Luther he was still seeking for the truth and looking for the true church of Christ. Its like he opened the eyes of the world to whole new place for what he did. All I know God didn't think the time was right. Just like when looking for answers for prayers.
evidence that it was Christ), then said Christ, "Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." (John 20:29)
Just awhile ago you accused someone of not staying on topic but "babbling on" about something else. Seems to me that is what YOU are doing here. Is it okay for you to divert from the topic, but it's a major sin if we do so?
of the Holy Spirit testifying of Christ, then that person's testimony is not a true one. The critics will often say we must have "faith in evidence." What kind of faith is that? It's not the kind of faith that Peter had, which Jesus said he was blessed because of his faith without evidence. It's not the kind of faith that Christ talked about to Thomas, when, after His resurrection, Christ showed himself unto the apostles and after Thomas had felt the nail marks in his hands, etc (after he had
@bdplist Just like people saying there is evidence to prove the Bible you will find those who will say there is evidence to prove the Bible false? Is that what you mean? Another question who do know which translation of the Bible to use there is 60 of them how do you know which is true? How do you know which religion to believe in there is more than a dozen mainstream Christian religions? Where does the Bible prove itself? No where. All it ask is for you to find if its true 1 Thes 5:21
from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" (John 15:26) The Holy Spirit testifies of truth. This is the standard we should use; it is the standard Christ said to use and it is the standard that the earliest Christians used. Paul even went so far as to say that no one can truly say, with real meaning, that Jesus is the Christ, without a witness of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3). In other words, if one has never felt the witness
See, it is the Holy Spirit that truly teaches us truth. And yes, we find truth in the Bible, but how do we know which interpretation is true? We must rely on the "Spirit of Truth," the Holy Ghost. Read the words of Christ on this topic:
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:26) "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
there was two men walking to Emmaus (Luke 24) they did not recognize Christ because their eyes were holden. They were talking about the Christ and sad because the Lord was gone. He spoke with them after they were gone. They said "Did not our hearts "burn" within us" I don't know maybe it was bad bread.
@BaurakAle7 Why doesn't God show himself to everyone that prays? Why doesn't Christ come down here and show himself to everyone? Why do you think he chose Joseph Smith? God prepared Joseph Smith for what he was to do. Thats also when Joseph found out about the plates the Lord didn't let him take them away right away but had come back for several years to help prepare him for the work he was going to do. The Lord even prepared the family Joseph was going to be in his life to help support him
God prepared Edgar Casey as a Christian Prophet. He had more integrity in his pinkie fingernail than Josephhad in his whole being.
Your own D&C states that the "powers of the priesthood are predicated on principles of righteousness and that if a man were NOT righteous (like JS WAS NOT) amen to the priesthood of that man".
BOO70 IF JS had "the power" in the first instance, this D&C script ensures that after lying to the world (as well as his WIFE) about his practise of polygamy, his "powers" would have been terminated, FORTHWITH!
@1MoNoMo Well as according to your saying I feel as you saying though you have to perfect or prophets are perfect. If that is try why do so many of them make mistakes in the Bible? I don't know how many times I have posted that prophets make mistakes there not perfect people. There is also evidence to show that not just the prophets and Christ had the priesthood.
I have no problem knowing prophets are not perfect. What I don't understand is why you would follow an imperfect MAN? Were you not told to follow Christ and NOT the "arm of flesh"? Why put your eternal future in the hands of fallible, and totally UNworthy men?
Show me where the membs of Christ's early church had to swear allegiance
to Paul or Peter in order to be saved? LDS DO THAT.
Several of those LDS "prophets" have instructed members to follow them and their judgement--that the "thinking had been done" (by them). No need to study or pray about anything. Just follow them and they would never "lead members astray".
We KNOW that's not true with respect to polygamy, women, blacks and now gays!
@1MoNoMo Maybe I said what I said their is two stories to everything. Just like they say their is two stories to the Bible one saying its true and one saying it is not. So how do you know the Bible is true? Because you have read it many times? Do take in mind though even though I am saying this Mormons believe the Bible to be the word of God too (Do take note that this was said by Joseph Smith as well). Question why would Joseph say Christ isn't a prophet? Because Joseph taught alot about
@1MoNoMo Sorry I have a job, a family, school, and whatever else beyond youtube. Oh and yes you tend to go off topic alot and go on babbling espically when you get mad.
@BaurakAle7 Yes there were others but only one was chosen by God and was prepared to be bring forth the restitution of all things as Paul spoke of. (Acts 3:20-23)
Just like there is two claims to the Bible. Just like there is two claims to Christ. Just like there is two claims to everything. Question how do you know the Bible is true?
Because I've read it many times (NT). The teachings as well as the physical circumstances of the time can be verified--VERY unlike that "other" strange "witness", the Book of Mormon.
BTW, I was talking about JS's claim to being god's prophet, and NOT the "bible" or "Christ". There you go, off babbling in yet another direction.
I know that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God, even though he was not perfect. In the scriptures it says that God will call the weak. I know the Book of Mormon was translated from off of Gold Plates from reformed Egyptian. In that record it contained the gospel of Christ and it come forth by the power and hand of God. Men shall call for armies, mob may combine, but the truth of God will go forth because it is not the work of men it is the work of God.
So you call putting a "PEEP" seer stone in a hat burrying your face in that hat & receiving the letters illustrated & illuminated is equal to " the power and hand of God"?
Sounds rather like the occult practice of automatic spirit channeling!
@bdplist So we are not to trust are subjective feelings? Acts 2:37 They were pricked in their hearts. I guess they should of demanded more proof or more evidence. How do you know the Bible is true? Does the Bible say it is? No where does it say this. But if you know the Bible is true. How do you know which translation is right? (There is 60 translations alone in the English language) But then again it begs the first question how do you know the Bible is true? What about the story when
I bet I could list off more places this error was perpetuated than you can. But I should also say you should quit looking to Anti Mormon literature for information on the Mormon Church. I have always found that information a bunch of lies. Just as I have proved here.
@bdplist Why was Moses not to see the promised land? Because he made a mistake. So does that make Moses not a prophet? Numbers 20. Joshua was deceived by the inhabitants of Gibeon Joshua 9. Gideon repeatedly asked the Lord for signs even though the Lord has said, "An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign." (Jud. 7:; Matt. 12:39) Nathan told David that the Lord approved of his desire to build a temple, and that he should commence the project. The Lord later told Nathan that
@bdplist such was not His desire, and that he was to tell David that the temple would be built by another. (2 _Sam. 7:) Prophets are not perfect people nor our the members of the church. Again I will say he proofread the pages that had this error on it? Orson Pratt not Joseph Smith. I even went through the trouble of showing of statements Joseph Smith made before this document was written that stated it was Moroni not Nephi.
trouble of finding the place, name of the person who was in charge of the printing press, even the very street and press number. So who do you think Franklin D. Richards is? He was an apostle of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon Church). Again I tell you its no secret this happened. Again you try and pose something that is secret and its not. I can tell you about a secret what is the history of the Baptist Church? Like who is its founder?
Again you try and say something that is secret and its not that this error was made, but also note it says not yet canonized, why do you think that would mean? This error was noted it was ready to go the printing presses, but for some reason it never was printed publically. But its also noted by people in the church about this error Franklin D. Richards (publisher), The Pearl of Great Price, 1st edition (Liverpool: R. James, South Castle Street, 1851), 4041. Take in mind I went into the
The Pearl of Great Price, published in England in 1851 (but not yet canonized), identified its source for the story as "Times & Seasons, vol. iii, p. 726, &c." On page 41 it is said, He called me by name and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi.
Again you pose something as some secret but it is none pubically and even publicized by the church. As I said before your a fraud just like all other Anti Mormons.
Again you pose something as some secret but it is none pubically and even publicized by the church. As I said before your a fraud just like all other Anti Mormons.
much History of the Church Vol 1 pages 11 and 12 footnote 2 mentions this error that you speak of for some reason you think the hide the face this error was made but we do not.
Can you find one before 1840? No. Like I said is perpetuation of the mistake and it was an error. Take in mind were the mistake originated started in 1840. Joseph Smith was one man not superman. He had only so much time in the day to go over stuff. Like I said on the Times and Season you look at the bottom it says OP not JS OP stand for Orson Pratt not Joseph Smith but then again I know there is people in the world who can't read or spell. History of the Church that you like to quote so
the Mormon History or wait Anti Mormon websites. It says the works and designs of God can not be frustrated, neither can they come to naught. Remember, remember that it is not the work of God that is frustrated, but the works of men.
Again I find you as a person who tries to make a fraud and lies. My question is now that I went to such lengths to find original copies that our posted up on the internet for everyone to read. What are you gonna do when I am not the only one that says your a fraud? Its just like Christ said the light shineth in the dark and darkness has no power to overtake it. Its kinda like what is said in the Doc and Cov You should be able to find the section and verse since you seem to know so much about
Messenger and Advocate 1:7 (April 1835) pg 112 says Moroni, Elder's Journal 1:3 (July 1838) pg 42 even says Moroni (see also Millennial Star 1:126), Elders Journal 1:3 (July 1838)pgs 4243 even says Moroni, and should I go on. There is tons of evidence this was a error and it was supposed to say the angel Moroni.
But how is it possible that Joes own mother was confused?
Life of Joseph Smith by Lucy Mack Smith - 1844 (printed in 1853). In this account, by Joseph Smith's own mother, we are again informed that the messenger was Nephi.
If it was just a printers error why so many members believed it?
"I have heard my grandmother say on several occasions that she was shown the plates of the Book of Mormon by an holy angel, whom she always called Brother Nephi." (John C. Whitmer, "The Eight Witnesses", The Historical Record, Volume 7, October, 1888, p. 621)
LDS apologists argue that the references cited above may propagate a transcription error omitted during the 1838 manuscript recitation. It is claimed that Joseph or his scribe perhaps tangled the names in the process. While this is possible, it defies credibility that the error would then go undetected for four years, pass review for inclusion in the Times & Seasons, not be corrected in any subsequent issue, and then recur in 1851 in the printing of the Pearl of Great Price.
How is it that Joe did not know? The orginal handwritten manuscript dictated by Joseph Smith reveals that the name was originally written as "Nephi," but that someone at a later date has written the word "Moroni" above the line.
Joseph Smith not only changed his stories concerning his visitations from deity and angels, but he also went so far as to alter the revelations which he claimed he received directly from the Lord and dictated to his scribes
I went to such great lengths I even found a internet resource that has scanned in the originals. So you can read the original copies that were 1st printed like 1st edition Book of Mormon or Book of Commandments and so on. They even made it so you can do word searches on it which is great. Doc and Cov 27:5 (1830 to 1835 edition) says Moroni, Mormonism Unvailed - 1834, reprinted as History of Mormonism in 1840 (an anti-Mormon book) page 277 even says it was Moroni (written in 1834),
You mean Times and Season Vol 3 Ch 12 Sabbath Scene in Navoo Pg 753 Take in mind I want into great lengths to find about what you have brought up yes it does say that. But who's initials are on the end of the page? OP or Orson Pratt, Joseph didn't go over these documents himself. You do remember talking about revision having to be done. This is the very reason why. Any future instance of this was just a ripple effect of this same error.
Again I ask you what angel visited Joseph Smith in his bedroom what was his name? Take in mind you can't tell me word about John Smyth who is of your own history not mine. So do believe John Smyth was a prophet of God because he did start up his own church.
Manuscript History of the Church - 1838 (Joseph Smith). In Joseph Smiths Manuscript History, which he dictated to scribes (the particular scribe to whom was dictated the story of this vision was James Mulholland), we are told that the messenger, who appeared in his bedroom just prior to his seeing the Plates of the Book of Mormon for the first time, was NEPHI
Times and Seasons - April 1842 (Joseph Smith). The second published account of the angelic visitation was printed in Times and Seasons 3:753. This account, which was published while Joseph Smith was the editor, also says that the angelic messenger was NEPHI
Take in mind you try to quote from the History of the Church and Journal Discourses. I want to ask how much is written about the founder of the baptist church?
Eventually you have to clean it out. Do Mormons have dust under the rug I wouldn't think so. How do you suppose the Journal Discourses come about? How do you suppose the History of the Church came about? Why do you think in the scriptures is there so much documented history about the prophets and the apostles? So the people could know for themselves they were true? Why do you think the Mormon Church has so much documented history about the Prophet Joseph Smith and the other prophets?
That is why I check these sources out & I found that they have been extensivelt TAMPERED with and or they do not contain the cuurent teachings of the church
Historians have long wrestled with the statements that Joseph had not been visited by the Father and the Son, but rather by angels. Joseph himself said, "I received the first visitation of angels, which was when I was about fourteen years old...." (Deseret News, 29 May 1852)
Dialogue journal of mormon thought Vol 17 no1 spring 1984
search I gave you? Obviously your a person that will not take the facts and you will not see that till you actually go to a place that gives factual information. To be honest all you do is tire me with your lies. To be honest I even think your boring. The only reason I answer your questions because I want people to hear the truth not lies from someone that studied about Anti Mormonism in his church. Then tries to hide the truth about his own. You can't hide the dust under the rug forever.
Folks without the colored glasses of mormonism will clearly see that the LDS religion has morphed into something it never was during Jo's time or Brighams
The LIES & PREVARICATIONS that are required to be LDS illustrate that LDS are NOT Christian they are mormon
The evidence couldn't be true from the Anti Mormons I have read the journals of people who lived in that time that knew the Prophet Joseph Smith. They even wrote about the things he said from what I read I know Joseph Smith had a strong testimony or witness of Jesus Christ.
"The ANGEL again forbade Joseph to join any of these churches, and he promised that the true and everlasting Gospel should be revealed to him at some future time. Joseph continues: 'Many other things did he (the angel) say unto me which I cannot write at this time'." (Church Historical Record, Vol. 7, January, 1888)
[Note the first reference to "the angel" was later "REVISED" (lol) to "the Holy Being" and the second reference to "the angel" was "REVISED" (lol) to "the Christ"]
Like I said all you do is spread lies like the rest of the Anti Mormons or take something out of context. Do take in mind I have proven that you have copied and pasted stuff and taken stuff out of context to change its meaning. I have even told you what the word revision means. Any revisions done have been recorded that we know all about them, you make it appear as this is secret when its not. Take in mind I told you to go to website that gives real answers about Mormonism what was word
religion called Mormonism. Many will accuse Joseph Smith and the Mormon church for many things but will be found false on all accounts. All you have done is clouded your mind with those who hate Mormons. It does say in the scriptures to love your enemies. I am guessing that's what you look at me as.
What is the Atonement of Christ about anyways? Is it not that if we try our best to follow the commandments that if we keep striving for what God would want us to be we will continue on that stride until we become perfect even as he is (Matt 5:48)?
John Taylor - "How did the state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith" Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 127 (1863)
LOOKS LIKE THESE TESTIMONIES HAVE BEEN TAMPERED WITH!
Orson Hyde - "Some one may say, 'If this work of the last days be true, why did not the Saviour come himself to communicate this intelligence to the world?' Because to the angels was committed the power of reaping the earth, and it was committed to none else." Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 335 (1854)
George A. Smith - "[Joseph] was enlightened by the vision of an holy angel. When this personage appeared to him, one of the first inquiries was 'Which of the denominations of Christians in the vicinity was right?' " Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 78 (1869)
Wilford Woodruff - "How did it [Mormonism] commence? It commenced by an angel of God flying through the midst of heaven and visiting a young man named Joseph Smith in the year 1827. ... The Lord heard his prayer and sent His angel to him, who informed him that all the sects were wrong" Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 324 (1869)
Vol 13 pg 324 that is taken way out of context with the Wilford Woodroof quote like for example where the ... is your missing over 100 words what are you gonna do next skip paragraphs, no wait pages. ... is supposed to be like a few words not the whole the book.
The Bible doesnt suggest that prophets are infallible. Writing about the Old Testament prophet Elijah, James said that he was a man subject to like passions as we are (James 5:17). Jeremiah got so mad at God that he claimed the Lord had deceived him and he swore he would never speak in the name of the Lord again (see Jeremiah 20:7, 9.) Even Peter and Paul had disagreements (see Galatians 2:11-14).
John Taylor - "None of them was right, just as it was when the Prophet Joseph asked the angel which of the sects was right that he might join it. The answer was that none of them are right." Journal of Discourses, vol. 20, p. 167 (1879)
Journal Discourses vol 20 Do you have any idea why I am having to do a word search? Maybe because your John Taylor quote doesn't exist. It says the word "sects" 5x on pages 17, 18, 76, 80, 93. But the quote you gave doesn't exist. Take in mind I also have the real books too not just the internet for reference. So like I said before you should quit posting from websites that are Anti and just say anything they want with no valid information and some of them don't begin to know about the
So you keep trying even tho in every instance you claimed it was u who was wrong
suppose that this quote is a problem are you going to pin everything on just this quote and ignore the massive amount of evidence that indicates the first vision story started out as a ANGEL & was later embellished to Jesus & still later to father & Son?
I notice you say page 167 were? In the Bible, in some manual somewhere. To be honest I don't like your ring around the rosey methods. I have showed you time and time again you have taken stuff out of context or changed what was said. The website you have been using needs to be revised. Take in mind I have real copies of History of the Church and Journal Discourses.
I will admit no prophet is perfect and they all make mistakes. Many of Josephs mistakes he made our recorded in history some of them even in the Doc and Cov. What is great to know that even though these men God looking upon them to call them as prophets if they can make it to heaven shows that even I not being perfect can make it to heaven.
Brigham Young wasn't referring to the the Sacred Grove as you implied. So tell me what the name of the angel and were did this appear to Joseph first? Again you don't know anything about John Symth or your own history.
ones I give. Like who is John Smyth? The Mormons never hid their history. They even have told the Saints since the beginning to keep journals to verify the history. You like others make up stuff as you go. Go about and try to say its in our history but yet it can't be found. When you first talked to me you talked about false prophets. If what I say is true wouldn't that mean you are the false prophets, priest, teachers, and so on that Christ taught about?
You know I have looked up all these passages you have given me in Journal Discourses all I have to say is the website your using needs some revising (updating) because most of what was said was either taken out of context or didn't say that at all. Like I said your like a monkey on a stage playing the same act over and over but when no one pays attention you throw bananas right now your throwing the bananas. Your like the common Anti Mormon you ask a bunch of questions but you don't answer the
This guys fight scene in the Karate kid against Mr Miagge is epic. I wonder if he still practices karate?
mikemarco76 4 months ago
DISPOSE vs CAST?
PSALM 50 What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? Seeing thou HATEst instruction, and casteth my words behind thee.
...These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.
bdplist 1 year ago
Christ. If Joseph ever said that he would break the leg he stands on. Otherwise how can a person be a prophet if they teach not of Christ? Joseph taught alot about Christ as well did the prophets in the Bible. Just because some people do not believe the Joseph Smith story doesn't make it not true either. Their were many that saw him, talked with, and saw the Savior do many miracles but yet they denied him. Because they denied him does it make Christ any less than what he was?
BOON70 1 year ago
Comment removed
BOON70 1 year ago
@1MoNoMo It also says in the scriptures not to judge evil of people and what is of those who do James 4:11-12. If Joseph truly is an evil man. Then why can a person earnestly praying to know if the Book of Mormon is true. Find the truth. But you say they shouldn't do this and find out for themselves. Isn't that for them to choose not I or you?
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
I told you to read D&C 121. That explains why exemplary behavior is important in a man holding the "Holy Priesthood". Your argument is with D&C 121, not with me.
Where did I say "they shouldn't"? Of course they should--but not at the expense of applying rational thought and reason and study to the issue, too.
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
@BOON70
In what way am I "choosing for them"? There are at LEAST 2 sides to every claim and every story. All I'm suggesting is that one examine with a critical eye EVERY CLAIM made by men, both FOR and AGAINST. IOW, be FULLY INFORMED.
THat's what REAL "investigators" DO.
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
After the apostasy, Joseph Smith received a vision in the sacred grove and reorganized the church. This is the same church that existed before but it is the second time its on the earth. Just like if a product were sold in a store many years ago, and hadn't been around for many years, then suddenly it came out again, you would see "NEW" on the package, and everyone would be making a big deal about it because they remember having it before and are rejoicing that it is back again.
bbradfordp 1 year ago
@bbradfordp Very good answer we all like the scripture in the New Testament Paul talks of that a prophet will bring back the Gospel because of the loss of the Gospel on the Earth. Acts 3:20-24.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70 Hey You're welcome. Let me know if I can help with anything. I'm going on my mission in a few months. So helping you will help me.
bbradfordp 1 year ago
@bbradfordp
Stay in school, bradford. You won't be serving Christ in the missionfield. You'll be serving the LDS Corporation, a business that pretends to be a "church".
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
@bbradfordp
Actually, we only have Joseph's word on that. No "2 or 3 witnesses" to establish the truth of his claim.
LDS, Inc IS NOT the same as the early church. It had no "presidents", no "tax-exempt, government approved corporation". It had no melchizedek priesthood.
No temples and no temple rituals and no "eternal marriage", etc, etc.
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
@bbradfordp
Somebody is selling swamp land
.
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was ONCE DELIVERED unto the saints.
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist Which was once delivered that is past tense. Meaning whatever he is talking about he has told them about before but he has to send it again. Where does it say he wrote to Jude again?
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70 Point is it (the faith) was ONCE DELIVERED not twice deliverered as mormonISM would have you believe.
It is clear in the scriptures that Jesus did not come to NY
Jesus delievered salvation (the faith) ONCE not twice
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist I know that Christ will only come once in the flesh to make salvation possible, but he will always declare salvation unto the righteous because he seeks to bring all men unto him. Question where does it say God will quit calling prophets? Where does it say that God will not declare his Gospel unto them again?
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70 question 1) 1 Co 13 "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."
question 2) never says God will not declare His gospel
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist What is charity? Charity is the purest of love or the love of Christ. Everything else will fail but the love of Christ never will. Your answer is wrong prophesied of what look at verse 12. Your like all the other Anti Mormons taking the scriptures out of context to make it mean what you want. Luke 16:16 ever wonder why were is italicized? Probably because that word was added by the translator because the word were is not in Greek.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
1) If you knew GREEK you would KNOW WHY
The other greek word endings carry that meaning, so no need for the word "were"
2) how do you propose to DISPOSE of MT 11:13?
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
Answer #1 SIMPLE if you KNOW your Bible & have ears to hear!
Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied UNTIL John.
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70 Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were UNTIL John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70 Jesus went directly to HEAVEN after he left the disciples.
He did not go to NY!
Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist Mark 16:19 Hmm you make it sound as though he stayed their in his throne their is evidence in the Bible that isn't true. Who did Paul see? Yeah Christ went to go sit on his throne but also says other sheep I have that are not of this fold them also I must visit. John 10:16
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70 Point is he did not go to Palmyra - DUH
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist Where does it say in the scriptures that he didn't? About the scriptures you mean like quoting one verse and then saying whatever I want it to mean like you? If you want I can quote you an example where you did exactly this.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
The scriptures tell us that he went from the midst of the disciples into heaven
Mark 16 "AFTER he had spoken he was received UP into heaven"
Luke 24 "And it came to pass, WHILE HE BLESSED THEM, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven."
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70 ACTS 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist Well if you read on in the scriptures you find that its referring to the 2nd coming. Question why is that ever vision spoken of by the Mormon Church Christ floating in the air never standing on the Earth? But you still haven't taken not of Paul seeing Christ either. You may wonder why I ask you all these questions. Its to make your read about Mormonism and actually read something that is true about it for once.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70 NOTICE
it says "out of their sight" not into!
it says as "he went"
it takes a mormon to make he went into he comes
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist Acts 1:9 doesn't say he went all it says is he was taken up but doesn't say he stayed their forever. Where does it say Christ will no longer be seen by people till the 2nd coming? I will say again Paul saw Christ.
BOON70 1 year ago
Where?
ACTS 1:9 while they beheld, he was taken up; and a CLOUD received him out of their sight.
11 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so COME IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN him go into heaven.
.
Rev1:7 Behold, he cometh with CLOUDS; and EVERY EYE shall SEE him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist Another question I have for you were does it say Christ work is done? As far as I know it will not be done till every person has an equal opportunity to learn of Christ.
BOON70 1 year ago
The jesus of m0rm0nISM is a fraud He is the son of His own sister, He is the brother of His own mother, He is the uncle of His own brothers and sisters, and twice the son of his father.
CTRight - Jesus!
CTReal- Jesus!
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist If what your trying to state is true the Jesus Stephan and Paul saw was a fraud. The whole world knew that Christ had left to be received into the heavens. When he comes back in a like manner the whole shall know then. No where does it say Christ will not come back and visit people like Paul and Stephan.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70 I dont make it "sound" anything
There are multiple scriptures (God's Holy Word) that you must disp[ose of in some way in order to foist your 19th century fiction on others
bdplist 1 year ago
You know I went and found the answer but I am not going to tell you the answer. All this time you have been asking me questions but if I ask you a question you just ignore it. Why do you believe your religion is the true religion obviously preaching against Mormonism you feel you have more truth than Mormons.
BOON70 1 year ago 2
@BOON70
God has given His Revelation in the Holy Scriptures.
Jesus told us to "Search the scriptures" & that they "Testify" of Him
Christianity is not a "religion" it is a relationship with Him.
AFA LDS it is easy to see the Errors, the Fabrications & the Fraud.
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist So what is revelation? Define religion - it is system of beliefs. Everyone has beliefs even those are not Christian. Everyone believes in right or wrong. Even saying you don't believe in anything that is a belief. So everyone has a religion wither they acknowledge that or not.
So do you think ppl will want to learn about your religion when you say "AFA LDS it is easy to see the Errors, the Fabrications & the Fraud." I bet alot of ppl from other religions like to talk to you.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70 Of course I have more Truth
LDS have their church & their "prophet"
I have the Lord Jesus Christ & He is the Truth personified see JN 14:6
bdplist 1 year ago
will of the Father. I know that Brigham Young is a true prophet too. He wasn't perfect but out of the weak has the Lord called people because they are humble and rely not on their own strength but the Lord for help.
BOON70 1 year ago
the truths that we find to be true and assure it by asking God about it. If we ignore them who else do we ignore? Remember Christ said I am the way the "truth" and the life. I know that man can get to know God personally because he wants us all to know him because this is life eternal (John 17:3). I know that their is a Prophet today Thomas S. Monson that he is our leader but the head of the church and who directs the Prophet is Jesus Christ. Through Jesus Christ are is revealed to us the
BOON70 1 year ago
to your views by your misunderstanding of another persons religion or the scriptures. I wonder if you well ever look for the actual truth rather than babble on about different stuff. If you were truly a seeker of the truth you would of investigated more on Acts 7:55-56, accepted that Stephen saw the right hand of God literally, and maybe even discussed it with me. Instead you go on babbling about something else. You have quoted the scripture to me that Christ is the truth. So if we ignore
BOON70 1 year ago
As I take only probably about 10 mins I find that you have only told half the story. You must take in mind that Moses was called God to in the Old Testament (Ex 4:16, 7:1) What is to be meant by this? Adam is the leader of the whole human race not that he is the Eternal God. What is also meant by this is Adam is the father of the whole human race (or any person that has ever received a mortal body) this includes Jesus. But is Adam the literal Father of Jesus? No. Again you try to bend people
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
Multiple past General Authorities of your church have stated in Clear English that ADAM is God.
ADAM God can also be found everywhere in the years 1852 till 1915 when it was replaced by jehovah/Elohim doctrine at Gen Conf (see Penrose session)
ADAM God can be found in Personal Journals of Apostles & Elders alike.
Found in Church periodicals & publlications, church hymnals & personal correspondance
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist So are you willing to say that Moses is God it is plainly written in the Bible? So it can not be broken nor taken away that Moses was called God. (Ex 4:16, 7:1)
BOON70 1 year ago
@bdplist Question what website our you pulling this off of. Obviously something that is Anti Mormon. I have sat here talking to you for 2 1/2 months. Your gonna have to give me some time to find all the stuff that you have stated. But as usual I know I am gonna find you only gave half the story as usual.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
I got this from LDS materials NOT ANTI "websites"
WELL have at it I look foward to reading the other HALF!
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
Wilford Woodruffs journal can be purchaed from any bookseller
I encourage you to check for yourself.
I would not post these things if they were not so & I surely would not list the sources, if they were NOt LDS!
# Hardcover: 5362 pages
# Publisher: Signature Books (December 1984)
# Language: English
# ISBN-10: 0941214133
# ISBN-13: 978-0941214131
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
The statements could not be CLEARER!
Are you contending that LDS "prophets" do not know how to say "Adam is the father of the whole human race"
There are MULTIPLE statements even at General Conference that ADAM was Father of all our SPIRITS!
"Adam is the father of our spirits" Brigham Young Addresses, 1850-1854, Vol. 2
Only those that are Bamboozeled by the cult can miss the Obvious!
Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth
bdplist 1 year ago
"we can say that to us there is but ONE living and TRUE God, and he is the FATHER OF OUR Lord Jesus Christ AND OF OUR SPIRITS. And when we get back to him and learn that he is actually our father...I tell you this as my belief about that personage who is called the Ancient of Days [ADAM] so on...To my mind and to my feelings those matters are all plain and easy to be understood. (Brigham Young, April 25, 1855 at the Deseret Theological Institute
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist So why do you feel this way?
BOON70 1 year ago
Doc & Cov 9:7-9 Use your brain to make decision then ask God if it be right.
BOON70 1 year ago
The Lord answers on his time not our time. If you know much of the story Wilford Woodruff he had a friend that was praying to find the true church of Christ. He never saw it nor did he ever get to join it but he told Wilford that he would.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
O Yeah Woodruff - who worshipped ADAM GOD
"At meeting of school of the prophets, President Young said Adam was Michael the Archangel and he was the father of Jesus Christ and was our God, and Joseph taught this principle." Journal of Wilford Woodruff, December 16, 1867
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist Seems to me your quoting something wrong again. Just like last time.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
NOPE the only thing WRONG about it is that it can be found in the annals of MormonISM
Why dont you like me quouting your own so called "prophets"?
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist Maybe because like I have showed in the past you only tell half of the story just like you cherry pick the scriptures.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
"At meeting of School of Prophets: President Young said Adam was Michael the Archangel, and he was the Father of Jesus Christ and was our God and that Joseph taught this principle." Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, Dec. 16, 1867
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
He even had personal revelation that Adam was the father of Jesus!
"The Lord told me that Jesus Christ was the son of Adam." Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Heber C. Kimball, v. 20, p. 17
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
God gave us brains he expects us to use them
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
"I wish to refer to the first doctrine preached that ADAM was our Father and God. In the revelation called the Olive Leaf it says that the Devil gathered together the hosts of Hell, and Michael the Archangel gathered together the hosts of Heaven and he overcame the Devil and his angels, and this is the battle of the great God."
Journal of Wilford Woodruff, January 24, 1868
bdplist 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 I don't know the answer to every question nor do I claim to be the fountain of youth either. What Marten Luther started out I do feel is inspired but what it became I don't think he would of liked it. If you read about Martin Luther he was still seeking for the truth and looking for the true church of Christ. Its like he opened the eyes of the world to whole new place for what he did. All I know God didn't think the time was right. Just like when looking for answers for prayers.
BOON70 1 year ago
Comment removed
BOON70 1 year ago
evidence that it was Christ), then said Christ, "Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." (John 20:29)
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
Just awhile ago you accused someone of not staying on topic but "babbling on" about something else. Seems to me that is what YOU are doing here. Is it okay for you to divert from the topic, but it's a major sin if we do so?
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
of the Holy Spirit testifying of Christ, then that person's testimony is not a true one. The critics will often say we must have "faith in evidence." What kind of faith is that? It's not the kind of faith that Peter had, which Jesus said he was blessed because of his faith without evidence. It's not the kind of faith that Christ talked about to Thomas, when, after His resurrection, Christ showed himself unto the apostles and after Thomas had felt the nail marks in his hands, etc (after he had
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
Peter did not have faith in spite of the evidence (like LDS do)
Should Peter have had faith If there was no evidence of Christianity?
Why have faith in the BoM in which there is NO EVIDENCE?
In fact there is much evidence against the BoM. Like the fraud perpetrated withi its pages.
God commands us to PROVE all things not believe all things
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist Just like people saying there is evidence to prove the Bible you will find those who will say there is evidence to prove the Bible false? Is that what you mean? Another question who do know which translation of the Bible to use there is 60 of them how do you know which is true? How do you know which religion to believe in there is more than a dozen mainstream Christian religions? Where does the Bible prove itself? No where. All it ask is for you to find if its true 1 Thes 5:21
BOON70 1 year ago
from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:" (John 15:26) The Holy Spirit testifies of truth. This is the standard we should use; it is the standard Christ said to use and it is the standard that the earliest Christians used. Paul even went so far as to say that no one can truly say, with real meaning, that Jesus is the Christ, without a witness of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3). In other words, if one has never felt the witness
BOON70 1 year ago
See, it is the Holy Spirit that truly teaches us truth. And yes, we find truth in the Bible, but how do we know which interpretation is true? We must rely on the "Spirit of Truth," the Holy Ghost. Read the words of Christ on this topic:
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:26) "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you
BOON70 1 year ago
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
BOON70 1 year ago
there was two men walking to Emmaus (Luke 24) they did not recognize Christ because their eyes were holden. They were talking about the Christ and sad because the Lord was gone. He spoke with them after they were gone. They said "Did not our hearts "burn" within us" I don't know maybe it was bad bread.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Why doesn't God show himself to everyone that prays? Why doesn't Christ come down here and show himself to everyone? Why do you think he chose Joseph Smith? God prepared Joseph Smith for what he was to do. Thats also when Joseph found out about the plates the Lord didn't let him take them away right away but had come back for several years to help prepare him for the work he was going to do. The Lord even prepared the family Joseph was going to be in his life to help support him
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
God prepared Edgar Casey as a Christian Prophet. He had more integrity in his pinkie fingernail than Josephhad in his whole being.
Your own D&C states that the "powers of the priesthood are predicated on principles of righteousness and that if a man were NOT righteous (like JS WAS NOT) amen to the priesthood of that man".
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
BOO70 IF JS had "the power" in the first instance, this D&C script ensures that after lying to the world (as well as his WIFE) about his practise of polygamy, his "powers" would have been terminated, FORTHWITH!
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
BOO70.
The cite for the above D&C reference is section 121. I suggest you read the whole of it--just so you won't read it "out of context".
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
@1MoNoMo There is no evidence Joseph Smith practice polygamy while he was alive.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
If you were to go to the :LDS site "Family Search", you'd have the evidence.
I can certainly understand disagreeing with the "bretheren" who allowed that
lie to be published for public consumption. Doing so paints you as an apostate--like I AM (at least on that issue).
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
@1MoNoMo Well as according to your saying I feel as you saying though you have to perfect or prophets are perfect. If that is try why do so many of them make mistakes in the Bible? I don't know how many times I have posted that prophets make mistakes there not perfect people. There is also evidence to show that not just the prophets and Christ had the priesthood.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
I have no problem knowing prophets are not perfect. What I don't understand is why you would follow an imperfect MAN? Were you not told to follow Christ and NOT the "arm of flesh"? Why put your eternal future in the hands of fallible, and totally UNworthy men?
Show me where the membs of Christ's early church had to swear allegiance
to Paul or Peter in order to be saved? LDS DO THAT.
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
@BOON70
Several of those LDS "prophets" have instructed members to follow them and their judgement--that the "thinking had been done" (by them). No need to study or pray about anything. Just follow them and they would never "lead members astray".
We KNOW that's not true with respect to polygamy, women, blacks and now gays!
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
@BOON70
So. It's been 3 days now and no response to my below points about following fallible men as opposed to following Christ. So........?
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
@1MoNoMo Maybe I said what I said their is two stories to everything. Just like they say their is two stories to the Bible one saying its true and one saying it is not. So how do you know the Bible is true? Because you have read it many times? Do take in mind though even though I am saying this Mormons believe the Bible to be the word of God too (Do take note that this was said by Joseph Smith as well). Question why would Joseph say Christ isn't a prophet? Because Joseph taught alot about
BOON70 1 year ago
@1MoNoMo Sorry I have a job, a family, school, and whatever else beyond youtube. Oh and yes you tend to go off topic alot and go on babbling espically when you get mad.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Yes there were others but only one was chosen by God and was prepared to be bring forth the restitution of all things as Paul spoke of. (Acts 3:20-23)
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
And, of course, who was it that claimed he was the "chosen one"?
Joseph Smith.
How many times have we heard THAT claim?
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
Just like there is two claims to the Bible. Just like there is two claims to Christ. Just like there is two claims to everything. Question how do you know the Bible is true?
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
Because I've read it many times (NT). The teachings as well as the physical circumstances of the time can be verified--VERY unlike that "other" strange "witness", the Book of Mormon.
BTW, I was talking about JS's claim to being god's prophet, and NOT the "bible" or "Christ". There you go, off babbling in yet another direction.
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
Mitt Will be the Next PresiDent of the U S A.......
FireYourJOB 1 year ago
I know that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God, even though he was not perfect. In the scriptures it says that God will call the weak. I know the Book of Mormon was translated from off of Gold Plates from reformed Egyptian. In that record it contained the gospel of Christ and it come forth by the power and hand of God. Men shall call for armies, mob may combine, but the truth of God will go forth because it is not the work of men it is the work of God.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
So you call putting a "PEEP" seer stone in a hat burrying your face in that hat & receiving the letters illustrated & illuminated is equal to " the power and hand of God"?
Sounds rather like the occult practice of automatic spirit channeling!
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist Well you guys always like to babble about stuff I have already answered too.
BOON70 1 year ago
@bdplist Seems to me like you babble like usual and don't look to see if the answer you asking has already been answered.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
Joseph was wicked
Other than a Burnt BAzoom, how do you actually "KNOW" the BoM was translated off golden plates of reformed egyptian?
You dont know you feel
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist So we are not to trust are subjective feelings? Acts 2:37 They were pricked in their hearts. I guess they should of demanded more proof or more evidence. How do you know the Bible is true? Does the Bible say it is? No where does it say this. But if you know the Bible is true. How do you know which translation is right? (There is 60 translations alone in the English language) But then again it begs the first question how do you know the Bible is true? What about the story when
BOON70 1 year ago
I bet I could list off more places this error was perpetuated than you can. But I should also say you should quit looking to Anti Mormon literature for information on the Mormon Church. I have always found that information a bunch of lies. Just as I have proved here.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
So you admit that mormonISM is full of ERROR?
bdplist 1 year ago
@bdplist Why was Moses not to see the promised land? Because he made a mistake. So does that make Moses not a prophet? Numbers 20. Joshua was deceived by the inhabitants of Gibeon Joshua 9. Gideon repeatedly asked the Lord for signs even though the Lord has said, "An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign." (Jud. 7:; Matt. 12:39) Nathan told David that the Lord approved of his desire to build a temple, and that he should commence the project. The Lord later told Nathan that
BOON70 1 year ago
@bdplist such was not His desire, and that he was to tell David that the temple would be built by another. (2 _Sam. 7:) Prophets are not perfect people nor our the members of the church. Again I will say he proofread the pages that had this error on it? Orson Pratt not Joseph Smith. I even went through the trouble of showing of statements Joseph Smith made before this document was written that stated it was Moroni not Nephi.
BOON70 1 year ago
trouble of finding the place, name of the person who was in charge of the printing press, even the very street and press number. So who do you think Franklin D. Richards is? He was an apostle of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon Church). Again I tell you its no secret this happened. Again you try and pose something that is secret and its not. I can tell you about a secret what is the history of the Baptist Church? Like who is its founder?
BOON70 1 year ago
Again you try and say something that is secret and its not that this error was made, but also note it says not yet canonized, why do you think that would mean? This error was noted it was ready to go the printing presses, but for some reason it never was printed publically. But its also noted by people in the church about this error Franklin D. Richards (publisher), The Pearl of Great Price, 1st edition (Liverpool: R. James, South Castle Street, 1851), 4041. Take in mind I went into the
BOON70 1 year ago
The Pearl of Great Price, published in England in 1851 (but not yet canonized), identified its source for the story as "Times & Seasons, vol. iii, p. 726, &c." On page 41 it is said, He called me by name and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
NEPHI
Exactly just like all the examples I showed you before it was printed in a mormon periodical and had to be later doctored.
So tell me how did this ERROR in 1851 propagate into the first printing of the STANDARD WORK PGP also in 1851?
Was this a demonstration of the "POWER & HAND of " your god?
bdplist 1 year ago
Again you pose something as some secret but it is none pubically and even publicized by the church. As I said before your a fraud just like all other Anti Mormons.
BOON70 1 year ago
Again you pose something as some secret but it is none pubically and even publicized by the church. As I said before your a fraud just like all other Anti Mormons.
BOON70 1 year ago
much History of the Church Vol 1 pages 11 and 12 footnote 2 mentions this error that you speak of for some reason you think the hide the face this error was made but we do not.
BOON70 1 year ago
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BOON70 1 year ago
Can you find one before 1840? No. Like I said is perpetuation of the mistake and it was an error. Take in mind were the mistake originated started in 1840. Joseph Smith was one man not superman. He had only so much time in the day to go over stuff. Like I said on the Times and Season you look at the bottom it says OP not JS OP stand for Orson Pratt not Joseph Smith but then again I know there is people in the world who can't read or spell. History of the Church that you like to quote so
BOON70 1 year ago
How did the ERROR that was "ELIMINATED" creep back into the STANDARD WORKS (no less) in 1851? (PGP)
bdplist 1 year ago
the Mormon History or wait Anti Mormon websites. It says the works and designs of God can not be frustrated, neither can they come to naught. Remember, remember that it is not the work of God that is frustrated, but the works of men.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
How did the NEPHI (error) creep back out into Pearl of Great price in 1851?
bdplist 1 year ago
Again I find you as a person who tries to make a fraud and lies. My question is now that I went to such lengths to find original copies that our posted up on the internet for everyone to read. What are you gonna do when I am not the only one that says your a fraud? Its just like Christ said the light shineth in the dark and darkness has no power to overtake it. Its kinda like what is said in the Doc and Cov You should be able to find the section and verse since you seem to know so much about
BOON70 1 year ago
Messenger and Advocate 1:7 (April 1835) pg 112 says Moroni, Elder's Journal 1:3 (July 1838) pg 42 even says Moroni (see also Millennial Star 1:126), Elders Journal 1:3 (July 1838)pgs 4243 even says Moroni, and should I go on. There is tons of evidence this was a error and it was supposed to say the angel Moroni.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
But how is it possible that Joes own mother was confused?
Life of Joseph Smith by Lucy Mack Smith - 1844 (printed in 1853). In this account, by Joseph Smith's own mother, we are again informed that the messenger was Nephi.
When did LDS discover this "ERROR"?
Why did they continue to publish it?
Over 10 YEARS CMON go kid a kiddie
Manuscript History of the Church - 1838
Millennial Star, vol. 3, p. 71 (1842)
1851 Pearl of Great Price
Life of Joseph Smith (printed in 1853)
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
TILL 1853?
What a LOOOOOOONG time period to be publishing this error sounds FISHY to me
Just another Tall tale needs revising
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
If it was just a printers error why so many members believed it?
"I have heard my grandmother say on several occasions that she was shown the plates of the Book of Mormon by an holy angel, whom she always called Brother Nephi." (John C. Whitmer, "The Eight Witnesses", The Historical Record, Volume 7, October, 1888, p. 621)
bdplist 1 year ago
LDS apologists argue that the references cited above may propagate a transcription error omitted during the 1838 manuscript recitation. It is claimed that Joseph or his scribe perhaps tangled the names in the process. While this is possible, it defies credibility that the error would then go undetected for four years, pass review for inclusion in the Times & Seasons, not be corrected in any subsequent issue, and then recur in 1851 in the printing of the Pearl of Great Price.
bdplist 1 year ago
How is it that Joe did not know? The orginal handwritten manuscript dictated by Joseph Smith reveals that the name was originally written as "Nephi," but that someone at a later date has written the word "Moroni" above the line.
Just needed some of that Fish Story Revising
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
Joseph Smith not only changed his stories concerning his visitations from deity and angels, but he also went so far as to alter the revelations which he claimed he received directly from the Lord and dictated to his scribes
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
Thomas Bullock Journal - In a journal entry Thomas Bullock claims that the name of the messenger was Nephi.
Not a good foundation
MT 7 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
bdplist 1 year ago
I went to such great lengths I even found a internet resource that has scanned in the originals. So you can read the original copies that were 1st printed like 1st edition Book of Mormon or Book of Commandments and so on. They even made it so you can do word searches on it which is great. Doc and Cov 27:5 (1830 to 1835 edition) says Moroni, Mormonism Unvailed - 1834, reprinted as History of Mormonism in 1840 (an anti-Mormon book) page 277 even says it was Moroni (written in 1834),
BOON70 1 year ago
You mean Times and Season Vol 3 Ch 12 Sabbath Scene in Navoo Pg 753 Take in mind I want into great lengths to find about what you have brought up yes it does say that. But who's initials are on the end of the page? OP or Orson Pratt, Joseph didn't go over these documents himself. You do remember talking about revision having to be done. This is the very reason why. Any future instance of this was just a ripple effect of this same error.
BOON70 1 year ago
BOY LDS sure have a time of it keeping the Fish stories staright
bdplist 1 year ago
About your Deseret News quote I went for the trouble of Googling the phrase you quoted can't be found.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
DUH
Google did not exist in the 19th Century!
bdplist 1 year ago
Again I ask you what angel visited Joseph Smith in his bedroom what was his name? Take in mind you can't tell me word about John Smyth who is of your own history not mine. So do believe John Smyth was a prophet of God because he did start up his own church.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
What was His name?
I dunno even that had to be changed
was it NEPHI or was it Moroni?
At first it was NEPHI name later "REVISED" to Mormoni
bdplist 1 year ago
Manuscript History of the Church - 1838 (Joseph Smith). In Joseph Smiths Manuscript History, which he dictated to scribes (the particular scribe to whom was dictated the story of this vision was James Mulholland), we are told that the messenger, who appeared in his bedroom just prior to his seeing the Plates of the Book of Mormon for the first time, was NEPHI
bdplist 1 year ago
Times and Seasons - April 1842 (Joseph Smith). The second published account of the angelic visitation was printed in Times and Seasons 3:753. This account, which was published while Joseph Smith was the editor, also says that the angelic messenger was NEPHI
bdplist 1 year ago
Take in mind you try to quote from the History of the Church and Journal Discourses. I want to ask how much is written about the founder of the baptist church?
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
I do not know
What is it you do not understand?
Is it the n, the o, or the t?
bdplist 1 year ago
Eventually you have to clean it out. Do Mormons have dust under the rug I wouldn't think so. How do you suppose the Journal Discourses come about? How do you suppose the History of the Church came about? Why do you think in the scriptures is there so much documented history about the prophets and the apostles? So the people could know for themselves they were true? Why do you think the Mormon Church has so much documented history about the Prophet Joseph Smith and the other prophets?
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
That is why I check these sources out & I found that they have been extensivelt TAMPERED with and or they do not contain the cuurent teachings of the church
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
Historians have long wrestled with the statements that Joseph had not been visited by the Father and the Son, but rather by angels. Joseph himself said, "I received the first visitation of angels, which was when I was about fourteen years old...." (Deseret News, 29 May 1852)
Dialogue journal of mormon thought Vol 17 no1 spring 1984
bdplist 1 year ago
search I gave you? Obviously your a person that will not take the facts and you will not see that till you actually go to a place that gives factual information. To be honest all you do is tire me with your lies. To be honest I even think your boring. The only reason I answer your questions because I want people to hear the truth not lies from someone that studied about Anti Mormonism in his church. Then tries to hide the truth about his own. You can't hide the dust under the rug forever.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
The problem is I have the evidence on my side
Folks without the colored glasses of mormonism will clearly see that the LDS religion has morphed into something it never was during Jo's time or Brighams
The LIES & PREVARICATIONS that are required to be LDS illustrate that LDS are NOT Christian they are mormon
bdplist 1 year ago
The evidence couldn't be true from the Anti Mormons I have read the journals of people who lived in that time that knew the Prophet Joseph Smith. They even wrote about the things he said from what I read I know Joseph Smith had a strong testimony or witness of Jesus Christ.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
"The ANGEL again forbade Joseph to join any of these churches, and he promised that the true and everlasting Gospel should be revealed to him at some future time. Joseph continues: 'Many other things did he (the angel) say unto me which I cannot write at this time'." (Church Historical Record, Vol. 7, January, 1888)
[Note the first reference to "the angel" was later "REVISED" (lol) to "the Holy Being" and the second reference to "the angel" was "REVISED" (lol) to "the Christ"]
bdplist 1 year ago
Like I said all you do is spread lies like the rest of the Anti Mormons or take something out of context. Do take in mind I have proven that you have copied and pasted stuff and taken stuff out of context to change its meaning. I have even told you what the word revision means. Any revisions done have been recorded that we know all about them, you make it appear as this is secret when its not. Take in mind I told you to go to website that gives real answers about Mormonism what was word
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
Where when how?
You have proven?
bdplist 1 year ago
religion called Mormonism. Many will accuse Joseph Smith and the Mormon church for many things but will be found false on all accounts. All you have done is clouded your mind with those who hate Mormons. It does say in the scriptures to love your enemies. I am guessing that's what you look at me as.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
Dont be silly you are NOT my enemy
The Apostle said:
Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
bdplist 1 year ago
What is the Atonement of Christ about anyways? Is it not that if we try our best to follow the commandments that if we keep striving for what God would want us to be we will continue on that stride until we become perfect even as he is (Matt 5:48)?
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
John Taylor - "How did the state of things called Mormonism originate? We read that an angel came down and revealed himself to Joseph Smith" Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 127 (1863)
bdplist 1 year ago
LOOKS LIKE THESE TESTIMONIES HAVE BEEN TAMPERED WITH!
Orson Hyde - "Some one may say, 'If this work of the last days be true, why did not the Saviour come himself to communicate this intelligence to the world?' Because to the angels was committed the power of reaping the earth, and it was committed to none else." Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 335 (1854)
bdplist 1 year ago
George A. Smith - "[Joseph] was enlightened by the vision of an holy angel. When this personage appeared to him, one of the first inquiries was 'Which of the denominations of Christians in the vicinity was right?' " Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 78 (1869)
HELP must be another of those problem "Contexts"
bdplist 1 year ago
WHAT HAPPENED in 1827?????
Wilford Woodruff - "How did it [Mormonism] commence? It commenced by an angel of God flying through the midst of heaven and visiting a young man named Joseph Smith in the year 1827. ... The Lord heard his prayer and sent His angel to him, who informed him that all the sects were wrong" Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 324 (1869)
bdplist 1 year ago
Vol 13 pg 324 that is taken way out of context with the Wilford Woodroof quote like for example where the ... is your missing over 100 words what are you gonna do next skip paragraphs, no wait pages. ... is supposed to be like a few words not the whole the book.
BOON70 1 year ago
The Bible doesnt suggest that prophets are infallible. Writing about the Old Testament prophet Elijah, James said that he was a man subject to like passions as we are (James 5:17). Jeremiah got so mad at God that he claimed the Lord had deceived him and he swore he would never speak in the name of the Lord again (see Jeremiah 20:7, 9.) Even Peter and Paul had disagreements (see Galatians 2:11-14).
BOON70 1 year ago
John Taylor - "None of them was right, just as it was when the Prophet Joseph asked the angel which of the sects was right that he might join it. The answer was that none of them are right." Journal of Discourses, vol. 20, p. 167 (1879)
bdplist 1 year ago
Journal Discourses vol 20 Do you have any idea why I am having to do a word search? Maybe because your John Taylor quote doesn't exist. It says the word "sects" 5x on pages 17, 18, 76, 80, 93. But the quote you gave doesn't exist. Take in mind I also have the real books too not just the internet for reference. So like I said before you should quit posting from websites that are Anti and just say anything they want with no valid information and some of them don't begin to know about the
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
You have not shown one time when I was wrong yet?
So you keep trying even tho in every instance you claimed it was u who was wrong
suppose that this quote is a problem are you going to pin everything on just this quote and ignore the massive amount of evidence that indicates the first vision story started out as a ANGEL & was later embellished to Jesus & still later to father & Son?
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
SILLY try p 167 like it says in the post
bdplist 1 year ago
I notice you say page 167 were? In the Bible, in some manual somewhere. To be honest I don't like your ring around the rosey methods. I have showed you time and time again you have taken stuff out of context or changed what was said. The website you have been using needs to be revised. Take in mind I have real copies of History of the Church and Journal Discourses.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
Right were I said b4 JoD v20 p 167
Taylor said an ANGEL told Joe that all sects were corrupt
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
Maybe you should look at those copies
I only use the best LDS sources
If you think that your LDS "historical record" is ANTI that is not my problem
bdplist 1 year ago
How come all these LDS Apostles & Prophets did not know Joe asked the father which sect? They say ANGEL!!!!
bdplist 1 year ago
I will admit no prophet is perfect and they all make mistakes. Many of Josephs mistakes he made our recorded in history some of them even in the Doc and Cov. What is great to know that even though these men God looking upon them to call them as prophets if they can make it to heaven shows that even I not being perfect can make it to heaven.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
Who was this ANGEL that came to Joe in the SACRED GROVE?
Why didnt the Father come there?
bdplist 1 year ago
Brigham Young wasn't referring to the the Sacred Grove as you implied. So tell me what the name of the angel and were did this appear to Joseph first? Again you don't know anything about John Symth or your own history.
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
O I see all these Apostles were WRONG
bdplist 1 year ago
@BOON70
Where was it that Joe asked which sects were right?
A In his bedroom?
B In the sacred grove?
A or B?
bdplist 1 year ago
ones I give. Like who is John Smyth? The Mormons never hid their history. They even have told the Saints since the beginning to keep journals to verify the history. You like others make up stuff as you go. Go about and try to say its in our history but yet it can't be found. When you first talked to me you talked about false prophets. If what I say is true wouldn't that mean you are the false prophets, priest, teachers, and so on that Christ taught about?
BOON70 1 year ago
@BOON70
I answered you already why do you keep asking what I told you I know nothing about?
bdplist 1 year ago
You know I have looked up all these passages you have given me in Journal Discourses all I have to say is the website your using needs some revising (updating) because most of what was said was either taken out of context or didn't say that at all. Like I said your like a monkey on a stage playing the same act over and over but when no one pays attention you throw bananas right now your throwing the bananas. Your like the common Anti Mormon you ask a bunch of questions but you don't answer the
BOON70 1 year ago