AAI Copenhagen 2010: P.Z. Myers - Speaking truth to absurdity [1/4]

[JMcH]

@AlessioDAlessandro - Considering that there recently was yet another archaeological find which has once again confirmed the historical accuracy of the Bible, I think I'll stick with the side I'm on now. See, after many years of being a hardcore atheist who spouted the same inane babble as you, I actually took a look at history and compared it to the Bible. The Bible matches history because the Bible IS history.

[TaylorThaHick]

@JMcH The bible is occasionally accurate because some of the towns and a few of the people mentioned in the bble actually existed. How you get from this to Jesus walking on water stretches the bounds of credulity. When you find noah's ark, or jesus's crown of thorns, or a herd of pig bones drowned in some lake, get back to me.

[JMcH]

@TaylorThaHick - "Occasionally?" Quite the straw man you have burning there. The Bible has been accurate on far, far more than just "some... towns and a few people." It literally has been responsible for more archaeological finds than any other source from antiquity. Even when the historical record of the Bible was doubted and even vehemently refuted, later findings vindicated the biblical record and new findings continue to do so.

[JMcH]

@AlessioDAlessandro - Let me know when you have something other than unoriginal atheistic memes to throw around, m'kay?

[JMcH]

@AlessioDAlessandro - Which explains Christians' attitude towards atheists.

[JMcH]

@AlessioDAlessandro - Ah, tolerance. A trait that atheists are completely lacking.

[TaylorThaHick]

@JMcH I don't tolerate insanity. It is not like the difference between republicans and democrats, this is about solipsism vs reality.

[JMcH]

@TaylorThaHick - True insanity is rare. You're labeling billions of people in the world as insane. Is that really the position you wish to take? Is the human race truly that bad off according to you?

[JMcH]

@AlessioDAlessandro - You digress? Exactly how do you digress from the lowest common denominator? I'm through with your nonsense.

[JMcH]

@AlessioDAlessandro - BTW, it was God -- via prayer -- and not science that healed my wife's painful neuroma condition in her foot. Her doctor was advising her to have surgery to cut out the nerve, which would've left a good portion of her foot numb and probably paralyzed.

[TaylorThaHick]

@JMcH I am curious what the doctor would have made of your cause analysis - would they say "that was impossible, its a miracle" or "neuromas often fix themselves" or something to that effect.

[JMcH]

@TaylorThaHick - Morton's neuromas do not fix themselves. The only man-made permanent "solution" to them is surgery to sever/remove or otherwise disable (through alcohol injections or a cryogenic treatment) the affected part of the nerve. We researched this. As I said, though, such "solutions" have serious negative side effects. My wife's pain was a daily struggle for her. We're now several years past her healing and she has never complained once about neuroma pain in her feet.

[JMcH]

@AlessioDAlessandro - If you think 99% of the churches in the world are "ostentatious," then yes, you actually are the deluded one. Heck, even if you were right and lots of money went into making the church buildings "ostentatious," then exactly how is anyone getting rich off of all this imaginary money rolling in? Most churches stand empty most of the week. Do you honestly believe people build expensive churches for the sake of having expensive churches?

[JMcH]

@AlessioDAlessandro - Oh, so the fact that churches need money to pay for things (water, sewer, garbage, heat, etc.) means that they are greedy and only exist to make money. Talk about which one of us is deluded! You really, REALLY need to get out more. The vast majority of churches around the world are not swimming in money as you are falsely portraying.

[JMcH]

@AlessioDAlessandro - No, it actually doesn't represent the interest of 99% of churches. If you honestly think churches outside of the 1% of the truly money-loving mega-churches are making oodles of cash, you are either ignorant or stupid.  But perhaps you actually do know this, which would make you a liar.

[JMcH]

@AlessioDAlessandro - Oh, right. Because all preachers are con artists like that guy and they need to start new churches to get more money.  Am I close to your point? 100% right on, I'm sure.

An ancient film about a small group of people who do not represent the whole of Christianity. Sorry, but I'll take reality over your asinine, juvenile, simple-minded fantasy.

[JMcH]

His assertion that churches disagree with each other is silly and quite a bit hypocritical. Most churches do not disagree on the core issues of Christianity. Disagreeing on secondary issues is a non-subject. Evolutionists agree on the core issue that evolution happened, but they do not agree on exactly how. Some say many slow changes over lots of time. Some say punctuated equilibrium. Some say life originated here on Earth. Others say it came from space. Do these disagreements discredit them?

[AteistiskSelskab]

@JMcH Oh, so they do not disagree on "core issues of Christianity"... So why do they make new churches, rituals, ceremonies, liturgy, bible interpretations and congregations? If it's not that big a deal, then why even bother? Please explain!

[JMcH]

@AteistiskSelskab - The things you mention are not core issues.

[AteistiskSelskab]

@JMcH And I didn't say they are core issues! I asked you WHY these funny little people think it's necessary to create new churches etc. when YOU say they do not disagree on "core issues of Christianity"... Then why create a new church professor?

[JMcH]

@AteistiskSelskab - Why do you think new churches are created because of differences in core issues?

[Zilent2000]

@JMcH @JMcH If you think I use the word "church" as in "building" you are wrong. I use the word as in "christian denominations".

What I'm saying is: people don't create their own kind of christianity (or any other superstition) because of minor details. They do it because they think the difference between their own belief system and the former is essential and very important! You say it really doesn't matter, but their action alone tells us something else!

[JMcH]

@Zilent2000 - Fine. Why do you think new Christian denominations are created because of difference in core issues?

[Zilent2000]

@JMcH Why wouldn't it be because of differences in what THEY consider to be core issues - and not what YOU consider to be core issues?

[JMcH]

@Zilent2000 - New churches are started all the time for various reasons other than differences in core issues.

As far as core vs. secondary issues, if you are happy to be willfully ignorant about that, then there's not much I can do to educate you.

[Zilent2000]

@JMcH I'm sure you would never be able to educate anyone.

[JMcH]

@Zilent2000 - Anyone like you, yes. You're too closed-minded.

[TaylorThaHick]

@JMcH @JMcH I'd like you to watch a video on open mindedness. You may use the terms open and closed minded in a different way after watching the video. youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqX­I



[JMcH]

@TaylorThaHick - Ah, a clever little video. I love how they start out defining what open-mindedness is in a way that favors their position, but which is without any sort of neutral source. "This is what open-mindedness is because we say that's what it is." And it just degenerates from there on in.

[rrpostalagain]

@AteistiskSelskab I call shenanigans. Churches disagree on core doctrine often and deeply. Do you believe in hell? What type of hell? How do you gain entrance to heaven? Do good works matter? Those are major points and you are very likely to disagree with the christian next to you no matter how you answer.

[ddarklighter]

@JMcH Some say that you can lose your salvation, others say that you can not. Some say that you must believe and confess your sins and you are saved, some say that you must believe, be baptized in the name of Jesus, confess and repent your sins and do good works to be saved. Some say that women can teach alongside men, some say that women must be silent. This isn't a matter of simple disagreement over which color tablecloth they should use, these are very basic, 'core' beliefs.

[JMcH]

@ddarklighter - No, actually, absolutely none of those are core beliefs. The fact that you do not know this does not surprise me. Very few atheists display anything other than profound ignorance of the Christian beliefs they constantly criticize.

[ddarklighter]

@JMcH What, seriously? How you 'get to heaven' isn't a core belief? What, then, is the purpose of Jesus?

[JMcH]

@ddarklighter - You'll notice that there is an overlap in the parts you listed about "how you get to Heaven." Both include believing and confessing/repenting. That part, when presented alone, would be a core belief. Anything beyond that -- baptism and works -- are not core beliefs, however.

[ddarklighter]

@JMcH That is absolutely ridiculous, and my simple examples are NOT the only ones (and I think you well know that).

[JMcH]

@ddarklighter - Your examples, as presented, represent nothing more than debatable and non-critical secondary issues, not core ones.

[JMcH]

@ddarklighter - You'll forgive me for reading and replying a little fast before and not addressing that overlap issue specifically.  I thought my point would be understood nonetheless.

[ddarklighter]

@JMcH Also, why do you assume that I was never a Christian, or that I didn't participate in more than one denomination in my life?

[JMcH]

@ddarklighter - Define how you were a Christian. Simply going to church doesn't make you a Christian.

[ddarklighter]

@JMcH I read the Bible, I prayed, I hosted bible readings/discussions, etc - I was as much a Christian as any other, by any reasonable standards.

[JMcH]

@ddarklighter - Reading the Bible, praying and hosting Bible studies does not make you a Christian. It may make you one "by any reasonable standards" according to human beings, but it doesn't make you one according to the standards of God's Word. The fact that you are a former Christian evidences that fact. If you are a Christian, you will always remain a Christian.

[ddarklighter]

@JMcH OH of course! Because we have some way of determining who the 'real Christians' are. Some kind of C-Meter, I guess?

[JMcH]

@ddarklighter - Yes, it's called "the Bible." Perhaps you've heard of it.

[MultiUniv3rsal]

@JMcH So scientists can't pinpoint whether life arose on earth due to abiogenesis or panspermia. OK, at least they have a logical approach to get us to that point. What does Christianity offer to this discussion? Nothing but skipping all the actual work. GREAT SUCCESS!

[JMcH]

@MultiUniv3rsal - Exactly what logical approach is that? And what work has any scientist done regarding verifying whether abiogenesis or panspermia brought forth life on this planet? The only work I'm aware of was an experiment 30-40 years ago in which a scientist got some proteins to form in a bottle of goo. Unfortunately, that experiment has long since been debunked. Forming life from non-life is the "holy grail" of evolutionary biology, but scientists know it will never be found.

[MultiUniv3rsal]

@JMcH Actually they already have. But keep clinging to Jesus like a brain-dead dingleberry. I'm sure there will always be lying ass priests out there to convince you that science doesn't work.

You are a dying breed, I'm glad to say. I hope you get polio, since 'goo from a bottle' turns you off so much, I'm sure we can spare vaccines for people that have working minds.

Your wife's painful neuroma condition in her foot? Whatever that is, I hope it comes back and offs her for marrying a dumbass.

[JMcH]

@MultiUniv3rsal - Thanks for that. Just another typical load of hate-filled insults from a typical neo-atheist. You obviously have no rational and valid arguments to make, so I'm done with you. Perhaps you can find discussions more on your level at the local schoolyard playground.

[MultiUniv3rsal]

@JMcH Does making up a word like neo-atheist make you feel smart?

It shouldn't. You should kill yourself ASAP.

[JMcH]

@MultiUniv3rsal - Actually, the word "neo-atheist" has been around for a while and is often used in the atheist community. Does lying about me and telling me to kill myself make you feel smart?

[MultiUniv3rsal]

@JMcH No, no it isn't. Making shit up doesn't help you. Crying about it sure don't help, either.

[Woland440]

@JMcH "but scientists know it will never be found." Hmmmmmm..........check out Mycoplasma laboratorium. And don't make affirmations which'll end up causing you to shoot yourself in the foot. The adverb "never" isn't used by scientists all that much.

[JMcH]

@Woland440 - Mycoplasma laboratorium is not life from non-life. The chromosome sequence was (1) based on already existing bacterial chromosomes, (2) created using already existing DNA bases and (3) inserted into an already existing, albeit emptied, cell. This is not life creation -- abiogenesis -- but life manipulation. Your "holy grail" remains undiscovered and you're the one who just shot himself in the foot.

[Woland440]

@JMcH Good point. I'm still optimistic though since science has a future and religion, by definition, has a past.

[JMcH]

@Woland440 - A lot of science gave up its future when it chose to embrace and dogmatically cling to the ideas of abiogenesis, evolution, and a universe created from nothing.

[MultiUniv3rsal]

@JMcH Guess what science never ever does? Choose to embrace or dogmatically cling to ideas.

That's your job, asshole.

[JMcH]

"You do not want to see me when I'm angry."

Does he turn big and green and have his clothes ripped to shreds?

[JMcH]

"Loud and militant atheist."

I think the words he was looking for were "obnoxious" and "vulgar."

[AteistiskSelskab]

@JMcH And I think the words you were looking for were: "I'm a loonatic writing crazy comments on Youtube channels!"

[JMcH]

@AteistiskSelskab - You obviously have not read PZ's blog. The guy is a nutcase.

[AteistiskSelskab]

@JMcH I've read his blog with great interest and I'm pretty sure the only nutcase around here is you. Have a nice day!

[JMcH]

@AteistiskSelskab - If you agree with everything that nutcase writes, I guess we then know which snack aisle you're located in.

[AteistiskSelskab]

@JMcH Be more specific and I'll try to think of you as an intelligent person - and not just the Youtube channel troll you are at the moment...

[JMcH]

@AteistiskSelskab - PZ Myers: Nutcase - watch?v=bQQl2TMrgbM

[Zilent2000]

@JMcH You completely fail to see the big picture. The guy has a sense of humor - don't blame him that. He's at a crazy-creationist museum for people who seriously believe, that dinos and human beings have actually lived together (becuase they read it in a stupid book). If you wanna talk nutcases - and it seems you really do - then let's start with those deluded people!

[JMcH]

@Zilent2000 - That's not a sense of humor. That's infantile behavior, which is a really good sign that he's gone off the deep end (as if his rantings on his blog weren't enough to convince you). His "Yes, I do." at the very beginning (presumably his answer to if he wanted to climb aboard the children's toy) is just plain creepy.

Thanks for trying to change the subject away from what is obviously so uncomfortable for you.

[Zilent2000]

@JMcH I didn't change the subject, I showed you what we are all up against: loonatics who thinks dinos has ever had saddles for humans to ride them, loonatics who thinks the earth is around 6000 years old. That's why it's funny to get some pictures riding it. I'm not using the word "nutcase" for such a funny little act - I'm using the words for creationist, young earth and flat earth believers, homeopaths and other real nutcase potential. People who seriously think they are gonna live forever!

[JMcH]

@Zilent2000 - Yes, you actually did change the subject. You asked for an example proving PZ Myers' to be a nutcase. I provided the example of him eagerly climbing aboard a children's toy. You decided to dismiss that bizarre behavior as "a sense of humor" and then immediately started attacking Creationism.

(And no, the Creation Museum does not promote the idea that people rode dinosaurs with saddles. That is a CHILDREN'S TOY and nothing more. Not surprised you believe the lies about it.)

[Zilent2000]

@JMcH I did not change the subject - I told you that the word "nutcase" is reserved for other kinds of being, like crazy-creationists, who seriously believe, that human beings and dinoaurs have ever coexisted (now that's stupidity and nutcase material for you). I'm very willing to admit, that the saddle is not part of the actual exhibition, but it's not much crazier than believing in biblical mythology! Nutcase-alarm!!!

[JMcH]

@Zilent2000 - You have difficulty following conversations, don't you?

[UrsoDaCortesia]

Inbred rednecks (aka creationists) are amusing

[ridelo]

If the only beasts I knew where a horse and a zebra I still would be an evolutionist. What could be a better explanation?

[Swamoez0rs]

Sound isn't great :< My hearing isn't either and makes it quite difficult to follow. Could subs be added in future?

[mcdermottpeter]

Lol @nocturas. You obviously didn't listen to a word of this. Or is your attention span damaged by watching too many televangelists?

[mirthstrike]

@nocturas: You don't think religious institutions can infringe on people's lives without their consent? Tell that to the places in the US where you can't buy alcohol or cars for some mysterious reason on Sundays (google "blue laws"). Tell that to Ireland, where you could be arrested for the crime of Blasphemy. Tell that to the villagers in Africa, who the Pope has decided should persist in the superstition that raping a virgin will cure AIDS, rather than tell the truth about how condoms stop it.

[nocturas]

@mirthstrike "can't buy alcohol or cars for some mysterious reason on Sundays " is at the consent of the public.

"arrested for the crime of Blasphemy." Not enforcible.

"villagers in Africa..." Are you retarded? Say that out loud so you can hear yourself. Skewing some semblance of the truth doesnt count as the truth.

I'll help you out here: In Alabama it is illegal to wear a fake moustache that causes laughter in church. Poor Alabamans. The church controls their lives and they dont know

[raizr]

@nocturas No.

[nocturas]

@raizr just, no?

[mirthstrike]

@nocturas "the consent of the public"? what is that even supposed to mean? They'll open up the liquor stores for anyone who "does not consent" to the silly law?

As for the part about Africa, do you have anything to contribute other than name-calling? Catholic organizations have been lying for years about condoms not working on HIV, for no other apparent reason than the idea of birth control being more vile than the AIDS epidemic.

Your comment about AL further proves you've got no point here.

[nocturas]

@759009946576

Yeah I agree. It's just amazing that these ones are so pompous that they think they're above all that.

The dude refers to himself as a "militant" atheist. Aren't militants supposed to be passionate and unboring? I'd like to see crying over being punched in the nuts. That would make me feel less harassed by his pompous self-important attitude

[mirthstrike]

@nocturas

"The dude refers to himself as a "militant" atheist. Aren't militants supposed to be passionate and unboring?"

That depends. Militant Muslims, Christians, and Buddhists only have to bomb embassies, murder doctors, or gas subways. To become a militant atheist you have to commit the far greater trespass of Hurting Someone's Feelings.

[nocturas]

@mirthstrike Yeah and my point s: He isnt that. He's a soft fat professor type.

[nocturas]

NOT ONLY THAT:

But *this* type of movement is what is stigmatizing people with different religious creeds. Regardless of your wordsmithing, this is stigmatizing those who have theistic views. Which is most of the world. It's all very similar to Nazism and white supremicism. Are you that too?

[nocturas]

.. wasting energy combating religious institutions which have no power or authority over anything. Unless you live in Vatican City.

I don't think religious institutions have the capability to infringe on anything that could possibly affect anything other than those who choose to let it affect them.

So why waste time, energy and money promoting NOT believing in something. If this were 400 years ago, I might think he had a position. But it isnt. The church has no power. And he's still boring

[tsrhodes1]

I would pay good money to hear a conversation between PZ Myers and Stephen Fry.

[nocturas]

why dedicate energy into NOT believing something. I am A-theistic. Period. I cant believe you people have conferences. It's redundant. Education doesnt need your views. Education teaches people to think critically.

"proselytizing for atheism is more important than teaching science" says the preacher man.

Redundant . Also, you're a terrible and boring speaker. Im glad for you that you have the money/ authority to organize such an event. Im sad you waste it on this crap..

[tsrhodes1]

@nocturas I don't believe he is "dedicating energy into not believing in something." I think he is dedicating energy into combating religious institutions, among others, who would stigmatize people for not conforming to a particular religious creed.

[759009946576]

@nocturas Blah, whether it be religionists or non-religionists, there are always idiot extremists around. You can count on that.

[nocturas]

Super lame. So why dedicate energy into NOT believing something. I am a theistic. Period. I cant believe you people have conferences. It's redundant. Education doesnt need your views. Education teaches people to think critically.

"proselytizing for atheism is more important than teaching science" says the preacher man.

Redundant . Also, you're a terrible and boring speaker. Im glad for you that you have the money/ authority to organize such an event. Im sad you waste it on this crap..

[nothingnesswithouten]

Michael Ruse is a good example of a philosopher gone wrong.

[YourXavier]

Just so it's here, in case someone drop by that doesn't know it.

PZ Myers' blog:

scienceblogs(dot)com/pharyngul­a

[tooyjfwn]

I wish more teachers were like Myers

[THEHARMONIKZ]

If you don't know about Pharygula go there and be entertained.Mr Myers your fucking great.

[wubbadubdub]

where are all the comments? haha