You are the most gullible person on earth if you believe Silverstein's follow up explanation. If you watch the interview, which is on Youtube, it is very clear to anyone thinking clearly that Silverstein is referring to the building collapsing, not getting firefighters out (which reports say non were in the building) Not to mention that is impossible for WTC 7 to fall due to "fire" when the fire damage was minimal and it is clear it falls exactly like a controlled demolition.
look thng is straight i dont beleive that some hijackers entered the plane and the plane hits the building and it falls vertically down.we r not watching a scifii movie. cmon guys america has gr8 amount of tecnology and power,and even this doesnt help then we r insulting our nation. this was a inside job.. no one can ignore all these evidence..........plz i know it is hard to accept but this is d truth..take it...it was all done by bush and his rich friends.......thank u..
"still not hot enough to reach the melting point of steel"
So fucking what?
Melting point is irrelevant, since anyone who can use Google knows that the FAILURE POINT of steel -- when it softens enough to lose its strength -- begins at 1000F.
Office fires commonly reach 1800F.
Even a lame-ass Truther should be able to do that math.
What this idiot forgot is that they were the largest OFFICE buildings in the world, There are large quantities of highly flammable material(s) in office buildings. New York high rises have natural gas and thousands of gallons of diesel fuel for there generators that are usually located in a sub-basement to alleviate noise. follow the old equation Fuel+spark+oxidizer= heat/fire.
Once that kind of load is added to a structure it was never intended to hold a sheering effect occurs as the next level fails thus adding weight to the equation as well as laminar distance. since gravity has a constant acceleration this would very quickly (as in 8-10 floors) leads to forces equal to that not of C4 but closer in relation to a medium grade nuclear explosion.
Thus concrete feasibly could be flung several miles. it would take much for a single floor to fail.
Steel reinforced concrete has whats known as compressive strength as well as tensile strength produced by the steel reinforcement. This means when pushed or pulled it will not break. However should you twist it the concrete will crack thus putting more load on the now open steel. the over whelm steel would over time deform and eventually fail. Now the equation Force=Weight x Gravity x Distance give you how much pressure the first collapsing floor would have put on the next.
Why don't you just say you believe the official story and leave it at that because you obviously don't have much of a clue about the architecture of building seven & are trying to guess your way out with bad science.
r u serious? wind doesnt make buildings fall for 1 thing a plane going into a building wouldmake part of the building break and other parts of it become weak and loose obviously it wasnt just jet fuel but it wasnt a conspiracy
the planes were not made of solid steel aliminuim so they would have disintegrated on impact and the fule would have burned almost immidietly so how could this all happen????plus wtc 7???how did that collapse because of a fire in the lobby????
A good question would be what causes a building to collapse? totally forgeting 9/11..Im not heartless and may those victims rest in peace but people should be asking this..
has a maximum size. You need to get the fuck over your self and look at the present, not the past. 3,000 people died and all you care about is a stupid conspiracy? It doesn't even matter anymore, because it happened, and there is nothing you can undo. You lack a lot of proof. Go to hell.
Shut the hell up douchebag! This guy has a good point and I too believe the government did it! And he only lacks proof because he has other videos that give more! Stupid. He just didnt want to make an hour long video! God! Don't ever talk again!
Absolutely ridiculous .. how can you watch the videos of the buildings falling and actually believe that there is no conspiracy behind it? You lack intelligence and if anybody is going to hell it will be you for being a traitor.
First of all, that building that burned for 19 hours could have been made with other elements such as titanium. Second of all, it was far smaller than the world trade center buildings which were 1000 ft tall plus or minus 10 ft. They weighed much much more than the other building, and the aircrafts impact had severely damaged the steel structure at that point in the first place. The steel doesnt have to melt, it was the stress of the size. If you study physics, you will learn that *continued*
how dare you say in memory, your killing there memory. you are a horrible person for actually believing this shit. you have the same stupid mind as al gore..HEY EVERYBODY, THE WORLD IS FLAT!!!! wait isn't it, it must be because i dont believe in global warming
and what if you were wrong, and they had a way to see that. how disgusted they would be at you. it's always better to question and risk being wrong than never questioning at all.
i agree, you should always question everything, i myself live by that...but there are just some things you know you shouldn't question because there so illogical. And no, they wouldn't be disappointed, they'd be glad at least one person knows that they didn't die to go to war, they died because they believed in freedom, and some people just can't accept that.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
yea dude sometimes i question if im a human, i seriously believe that questioning everything is the rigt thing. ur a fuckin fag. 3,000 people died and all u can say is that it was a conspiracy. burn in hell
"Your claim is spurious office fires dont have a set temprature"
No, he's right. University of Manchester's Fire Engineering site says temps commonly reach 1600-1800F in office fires. Unlike WTC, most office fires are able to be fought, and usually don't have the automatic sprinkler systems destroyed by planes. WTC was probably the only high rise fire that was completely unable to be fought at all, and whose water supply & lines were wiped out on impact.
Yes, but irrelevant since office fires burn hotter than that, and the main function of the jet fuel in this case was to initiate/accelerate the office fires. Some truthers harp on an NIST comment that certain beams didn't show burns consistent with temps hotter than 250C. Also irrelevant, but they're trying to have it both ways.
All these conspiracy theorists make me fucking sick! This was an act of terrorism!! It wasn't staged or planned out by our own government. Show me solid evidence that missiles were fired into those building. I said SOLID EVIDENCE! Not some crackpot government hater who thinks everything that happens in this Country is a conspiracy. If these were military planes as some have suggested then where are the hijacked planes and what happened to all the people on board those flights???
People like andyk369 never bother with facts or proof, since they get in the way of their wild-ass fantasies. As soon as someone proves that one of his fantasies is pure bullshit, he just turns around and lays another steaming pile, hoping no one will remember that he made a complete fool of himself.
No fact at all, and any red-glowing remains were more likely aluminum, since the whole bldg esterior was clad in it, not to mention the huge airliner that exploded into it.
Might help if you did a little basic research on the web instead of hanging around loony websites that spoon-feed you morons.
metal was found at the bases of both buildings 1 and 2,in excess of 1500 degrees SIX weeks later,i don't know if it started out as molten,but it'd have to be pretty damned hot,even if it was as insulated as it would have been,to stay 1500+ degrees for more than a month
Thanks for the sane, obvious explanation backed up by the laws of physics, and common sense, which there is a lack of among these mentally deficient losers who are desperate for self-worth and meaning in their lives by means of the same visceral hate they claim to despise.
Yeah the other buildings they show that haven't fallen while on fire were no where near the size of the towers. Nor were they struck by such a massive object that COULD have damaged the internal structures. Think about that.
heres another idea,no steel frame building,under any circumstances,at any temperature,has EVER fallen due to fire,i'm to believe that for just one day,the laws of physics were suspended,and three buildings fell on the same day,on the same block,one without even sustaining any damage,all in a neat pile...bullshit
"no steel frame building,under any circumstances,at any temperature,has EVER fallen due to fire"
Bullshit. If you pathetic little conspiracy freaks were smart enough to use Google you could find plenty of steel-framed bldgs that collapsed due to fire.
But you'd rather swallow Alex Jones' conspiratorial sperm rather than actually check anything.
it seems to me,that you're awfully aggressive about something that you don't know anything about. generally insults are a tool of people who lack facts,as it turns out,you didn't use any big words,you just used a lot of insults to disguise the fact that you presented no facts,and you also seem to have a fixation with swallowing sperm,whats that about?
Maybe the big words confused you, too, but he pointed out that the "no steel bldg has ever collapsed due to fire" claim was pure, unadulterated bullshit. And that's a fact, whether you truther fruits like it or not.
high rise controled demolition; first you must get down to raw steel remove dry wall and fire proofing cut center of beem with torch(shape charges wont work on center and outside at same time on i beem)set charges wire charges 2pr beem 47 beams pr floor 55 floors(every other floor)x2=10,340 charges 5170 beems twins t's only with out being seen..write it down i am geting kicked off ct sites mabe last time u c me
Ever notice that when a building is imploded the charges go off first then the building drops. I've never seen footage where the charges go off during the fall. Who ever post this needs to get their head out of the a$-$ and get a fuçking education.
thats funny. youre the one who needs an education. you CAN see evidence of controlled demo by looking at the 'squibs' which are tufts of smoke that jet out from the building - those are characteristics of a controlled demolition.
Really? Wow so when they strap the dynamite to the load bearing members of a building they don't wrap the dynamite in fencing and the cover that with planks of wood to prevent chunks of concrete from blowing outward and the dynamite from blowing away from the pilones. (If you believe that then try holding an M80 in your closed fist.) I didn't know that.
...Continued Or the fact that the WTC towers have only 8 load bearing members and that they're located in the four corners of the and in the center of the building and the structural supports that made the building so strong were the trusses. ...To be Continued...
Oh and then the trusses are paved over in concrete. HMMM really. So I guess that the colapsing of those trusses paved in concrete and materials between them(like air, dirt and concrete dust) would never have been blown (let's say) outward through the windows. Windows being so strong and all. It's sort of like running your head over with a car, the air that fills it would be blown out, like a WTC.
There are videos which clearly show small amounts of dirt and dust blown out from at least 10 different windows, BEFORE the falling debris even reaches them.
If you've ever seen any videos of buildings being demolished, the explosions aren't that huge. The thing is, when there's a couple of floors falling down, it's likely to draw your attention from those small explosions.
... Continued. Oh and by the way I'm sure that thousands of people just happened to overlook that thousands and thousands of pounds of TNT being carried into the WTC.I'm sure that they thought, "Hmm I wonder why they're strapping Dynamite to those pillars? Must be a new Stockmarket tactic."
You seem very passionate about this, yet you havent said anything fact-based. There were 47 support collumns in the center of each building. These columns were the main weight-bearing support for each of the towers.
The weeks before 911 2001 there were numerous evacuations of the building done in order of section. They were said to be "security drills". This is the time we believe the demolitions were placed but it is also theorized that there were several maintanance workers who were on the job constantly that could have been doing it over at least a 2 month stretch.The only concrete in the building was the center of each floor level and covered by carpet.
If the building followed the "pancake theory" (which ppl like yourself believe) these floors would remain in partial tact, considering the fact it should look like a stack of floors on the ground where the building was. Instead, they were pulverized into a pyroclastic cloud. Pyroclastic clouds can only be made by explsions.
None of the steel support was paved in concrete like you say it was because the steel was coated in a foam of asbestos. The WTC was waivered for containing the asbestos and the owner, Larry Silverstein, was told to remove it somehow which was virtually impossible.
The same thousands and thousands of people happened to overlook the fact that almost half of the security staff and all the dogs used for detecting explosives were removed from the building just a day before the accident.
oh, and why don't you conspirators provide actual scientific proof instead of providing your conclusions without evidence and the stuff you pull out of context?
here's proof it wasn't a conspiracy (and read the whole article, i give you conspiracy morons the courtesy of sitting through your bullshit, so do the same if you believe yourselves to be correct): google "9/11 debunking the myths" and click on the popular mechanics link
I am saying that it is not possible to have office equipment acheive high enough temps to melt steel! As melted steel was found at the site of WTC7 this is of high importance i would think!!
Directional explosive devices are used in conjunction with Thermate, Who are you trying to convince ME????
Please do not apply spin to my comments, Leave that to the politicians!!!!!!!
"I am saying that it is not possible to have office equipment acheive high enough temps to melt steel"
You're right, but there was no steel melted and no thermographic scans showed the debris piles got hot enough to melt steel. The office materials and fuel oil were hot enough to melt other metals.
There are no such directional devices that are used in conjunction with thermate. Jones suggested that but he is not a demo expert & apparently didn't check with demo experts.
We are talking about a much bigger plan here "New world order" which Bush senior proposed while he was in office, The towers were simply a tool to bring a fighting spirit to the US citizens so the US could declare war! It worked too as hardly anyone complained about the war against terror.
The people that died in 9-11 were an acceptable loss to a government with a much higher agenda
people waste so much time trying to convince people of the truth when they "CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH" nor do they want to know it. It's like the scene in the "MATRIX" when Morpheus says most of these people couldn't accept the truth. What would happen to America if it's highest ranking leaders were found to be guilty of such high treason? Life as we know it would have to end, and world wide war would have to erupt.
There is a conspiracy and the Shadow Government (USA) is presently paying off 32,786 co-conspirators. Among them are firefighters, policemen, news personnel, Hare Krishna chanters and—
Did you SEE THAT??? The controlled demolition of the freeway interchange approach to the SF Bay Bridge? Do you actually think that the flames from a mere tanker truck of petrol could generate enough heat to soften steel encased in concrete? HAH!!! Did you see the evidence of the Thermite and shaped charges bringing down that overpass? Look at the drape of that collapsed slab of freeway. CLEARLY the result of intentional demolition!
hehe you conspiracy people are nuts!! why dont you examine the facts before you snort some coke and smoke some dope?...what happened to the countless people that must have been involved in this conspiracy?...why havent they spoken?...and if im part of this conspiracy, how come i havent killed you yet? ooooooohhh look out im tapping your phone and im probably going to get killed for doing it
I don't see how this proof can be disproved. Obviously YOU'RE the nut if you believe planes actually did this, you simply can't trust the media, you're INSANE!!!
WTC7 was defiantly a controlled explosion. Any idiot can see that. I know it should have taken hundreds of men and weeks of preparation to blow up the WTC, and it would have been impossible to do with out being noticed, but our government contracted aliens to do the work. They have a device that renders them invisible. Wake up people. We can't trust our government. They lie to us. Just like when they said the world was round. It's not! Just look out your window. Flat as a pancake.
During the controlled demolition of the Hudson building in Detroit (439 feet), a 21-man crew needed three months to investigate and four months to complete preparations. It took a 12-person crew 24 days to place 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations. They used over 36,000 feet of detonating chord and 4,512 non-electric delay elements. For a building less than a third the size of one of the WTC towers.
Tell me why the steel framing at the bottom of the debris was cut with a razor sharp diagonal shape? I guess your explination for that is that the shear weight of the um falling building ripped a perfect cut on several of the main supports right? Do you work for the government? Stop trying to misinform the people who really see whats going on. Many instances of government/military cover ups that harmed citizens for the want to change have been revealed. Even presidents revealed it in shame.
Poetryhound you are quite well informed on the subject which is obvious but i think that you are finding your information from sources that (If the CTs are right) could have been tampered with!
Why dont the government let independent reports be compiled then the truth would be known!
bazrippa, scientists & engineers greatly value their reputations. If a gov't official tried to manipulate their findings, that tampering would be leaked pretty quickly. Still,
I wouldn't mind if another investigation were undertaken. But who would fund it? Who would be the chairman and which structural engineers, metallurgists, seismologists, etc. would be the investigators? The NIST investigators were some of the most highly regarded engineers in the country, so who would be better?
PoetryHound, Many skilled and highly regarded scientists have already put their reputations on the line and stepped up to discount the NIST reports and state that the report is not satisfactory.
An independent investigation was scheduled but the government intervened, deeming it un necessary. WHY?
I've read all the criticism and in not one case do they ever cite a specific finding or calculation that the NIST engineers got wrong. They say make general statements and in the case of some of them, like Rice and Ross, they make incorrect statements.
I don't know about any scheduled investigation. How could the gov't intervene if it was independent?
No one has all the answers. But we have the most likely answers. The reports of molten metal are anecdotal. No one anaylzed the hot spots to determine their composition but there was a lot of aluminum and other metals with low melting points relative to steel. There's no explosive or incentiary that would keep metal in a molten form over time. BTW, NIST did not overlook WTC 7.
You say that "no one analysed the hot spots to determine their composition" Should this not have been an important place for NIST to start???
This is an example of NIST overlooking WTC7 which you claimed in the same sentence that they didnt do!!
AMAZING
The truth is the metal was analysed and if you opened your mind to the possibility that their may have been a cover up you would have already known that the hallmarks of Thermate were present!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There were higher priorities at Ground Zero than studying the composition of the hot spots. In any event, NIST only examined what led to the point where global collapse was inevitable, not subsequent reactions under the debris. NIST did not overlook WTC 7. Why would you claim that? Jones made the thermate claim but no scientists or engineers in relevant fields concur.
bazrippa, I suggest you stop relying on conspiracy sites for all your "information." They are accountable to no one and post whatever rumor or untruth they feel like. NIST examined what caused the collapses, nothing else. The hotspots happened AFTER the collapses & were caused by fires, not by explosives or incendiaries. Structural engineers had all the time they wanted to examine the steel before it was sold.
The other thing to remember is that thermate reacts fast and cools quickly. It would not keep metal in a molten form for 5 minutes, let alone for the weeks the hotspots existed.
If i am to avoid conspiracy sites then how would i find any information at all as the official reports and debunking sites are all full of holes.
Thermate is not what was found, it was molten metal with evidence of Thermate in it! While it is true that thermate cools quickly the metal that it comes in contact with does not. Fires cannot cause molten metal.
You should stop giving me advice and start studying the situation with an OPEN mind my friend!!!!!!
Oxidation & sulfidation of steel was found - intergranular melting is not the same as melting from thermate. No "thermate" was found. Jones alleges the byproducts of a thermate residue were found. Do you know what those byproducts would be?
"thermate cools quickly the metal that it comes in contact with does not."
If the thermate reaction has already cooled, what would keep the metal in a molten form?
I am trying to keep this simple so that the average person can be involved! If you insist on testing my knowledge.
The Thermate compound would be Thermite with a small amount of sulfur and a large amount of barium nitrate.
The molten metal would form pools at the lowest point of the basements of the buildings and as One cubic meter of iron weighs about 8.5 tons and this would take a lot longer than 5 minutes to cool.
Sorry, I'm not trying to test your knowledge. But if you're going to claim evidence of thermite or thermate was found, you need to know what the byproducts of these reactions are. Even Jones is not upfront about that. Thermite isn't something that would be found. Sulfur is, but that could come from many different sources. Jones found no barium nitrate in the steel samples.
Without a heat source, steel (no matter how much) would not remain in molten form for more than minutes.
"So how could molten metal be found 6 weeks later?
We have well documented and publicised evidence of this!"
The temps were hot enough to melt metal but not steel. The fires in the rubble had a lot of fuel from the office materials in the buidlings. Possibly some fuel oil as well. Nothing else explains it.
Sure, more steel would mean some more minutes to cool. But not weeks.
The other thing to remember is that even if thermate had been used, a relatively small part of each steel piece would be "molten" in the first place - only the place on each column where the thermate cuts were made. After that place is finished being cut, it immediatly starts solidifying.
"So you are admitting that it is a possibility that cuts could have been made then"
You must have misunderstood me. Even in a hypothetical situation in which thermate could have been used, it wouldn't result in much motlen steel. How come you didn't understand that?
Again, the high temps were not hot enough to melt steel. The fires were fueled by office materials and possibly by fuel oil as well. No other explanation makes sense. Who says they couldn't achieve high temps?
joder, se ve claramente que es una explosion controlada.
Solo recuerden como empezo la guerra entre USA y España. Con la auto-explosion del acorazado Maine, que sirvio para justificarla de cara a la opinion publica americana, y quedarse con Cuba,Puerto Rico y Filipinas.
No engañan a nadie. Y encima despues las mentiras para justificar la guerra de Irak... Como pueden tener un presidente asi?.
I gonna trow a million of tons of rubble nearby your house so you will see what happens with the foundations and the groud beneath it do the experiment and you will find out waht happened with tower 7 you idiot Sincerely: A Civil Engineering Student.
only retars can sek jesuses help in times like theese, cant u see that great evil rules the word, where was jesus to stop it .. reasonale people are now on their own .. we must unite if we wanna live!
KOHVERSOHER i work around planes everyday for the past 15 years and i can tell you from personal experience that the planes didnt have any extra tanks
FUCK man its clear its a conspiracy,there are photos of the jets flying into the towers have extra fuel tanks under them,even tho they did not have those on take off,the pentagon crash is so pathetic cause the biggest airplane part found there was 1.7m large,bush just wanted a reason to blame iraq and take theyre oil wells
i dont give a shit how fast a plane crashes into something... an engine will not disappear. its bullshit to say a plane disappears after crashing and bodies also.
Nothing "disappeared" and no one claims it did. The FL 77 plane was largely shredded. Only a few larger pieces were found. Of course bodies were destroyed, but human fragments were indeed found. How come you didn't know this? Are you only reading unaccountable conspiracy web sites?
I watched the Fox footage of FL 93 exactly after it had been reported. There was what could be considered a very small hole for a plane slamming into it. 10x15ft . Also there was nothing around the area that even ressembled a part of a plane. Where does tons and tons of frame and body and engine along with people go?
Yes, CTers constantly claim the entry hole was too small and the misinformation seems to have reached you too. Sometimes they point to the wrong hole. The real hole was plenty big enough. There are scores of witnesses with real names and identities who witnessed the crash. There was a lot of debris. Maybe you just can't see it in the videos or photos. Like I said, the plane was largely shredded.
So Poetryhound are you satisfied that all questions regarding buildings 1-2-7 and the pentagon have been answered satisfactorily?? If so i would love to know where you have found this evidence?, i am not a conspiracy theorist but i would like find an accurate explanation of these events, which the US Government obviously does not want to give!! BUT WHY?
A good starting point to explaining why WTC 1&2 collapsed is the NIST report, prepared by a team of 200 of some of the top government, private, and university engineers and metallurgists. Their interim report on WTC 7 gives a good start at explaining WTC 7's collapse. Plus there are a number of independent analyses. Meanwhile, I have found the CTer explanations to consist of unsubstantiated assertions, misinterpretations, misrepresentations, & speculation.
But the official report stated that they had no explanation for the collapse of building 7! Putting the most important buildings aside for now EG 1 and 2 please point me to somewhere that i could find some sort of satisfactory evidence that the falling of building 7 was an accident!!!!!!!!!
I dont want to hear what the government heard i want hard evidence or i will beleive the conspiracists story!!!! SIMPLE
"But the official report stated that they had no explanation for the collapse of building 7!"
That's incorrect. If you're interested in the scientific & factual analysis of WTC 7 & not unsubstantiated conspiracy speculation, read NIST's interim report by googling NIST appendix L.
Here's an article by a physicist and mechanical engineer:
w w w*counterpunch*org (slash) darkfire11282006.html
The thing that bothers me about these reports is the amount of detail that they go into!
Where is the simple explanation to the amount of molten metal found under WTC7? Qualified professionals have put their reputations on the line in pursuit of the facts. If conspiracy theorists have gone to the effort of finding evidence which requires explanation then surely the government with all of their resources can knock up a report that makes sense to the average person???
Explain what the "flash" of light was on the front of both planes that was recorded by several sources Mr All Knowing Poetry Hound. I guess that is natural for a plane to flash before impact right? Explain Silverstein's response to pulling it. Explain why the govrnment wants a NWO. Several presidents mentioned NWO and that is a sale out of the people of the USA
This is truth, I can't beleive you don't trust your own eyes!! I am swiss and an enginner and believe me I don't like conspiracy theories but I see what I see and it was a demolition whoever done it!
Unfortunately, opening one's eyes is not enough. One also needs understanding. For example, one needs to understand that not a single demolition expert says the twin towers came down in a controlled demolition. Not one. In the world.
do your research loser. work for the rest of you life knowing half of that is taxes for the death of your own people. everything is not peaches and cream blind fool
--why are you afraid to do so?--what are you afraid you might find? Do some studying of Bush's past, Cheney's power, the PNAC report, who was in charge of security at the WTC, the $ made on the stock market from moves made just before 911, the dilemma of Peak Oil, the $ trail for
it seems to me that you are making excuses for the government, the real terrorists, and one should never have to make an excuse for government--remember, the way our Declaration of Independence was written, the fore fathers were EXPLICITLY defining the contract that government makes with the people, and if that responsibility is ever breeched in any way, it is not only the right of the people, but also the responsibility of the people to challenge their government
It's strange what your government does.It is owned.All governments are. Some do good.Few. Many evil.Owned but not by the people. Even with the Democrats, they too shall fold before the power unleashed.The Democrats are going to be more useful to them than the Republicans. America is on its way down.Every nation has a rise and then, a fall.We won't last as long as Rome.In fact our end as a nation is soon to be.The ink is dry.It is what your government doesn't say you should fear.
WTC was built different than any other skyscraper of its day- pre-fab floors dropped in place on top of little clips attached to the supports. Little clips held the floors- floors held the steel supports in place. Many steel supports were severed- see pix. Steel can bend when warmed- it doesn't have to "melt" or liquify. Clips warmed and bent, the floors came down.
Due to the Bldgs design, basically a hollow tube, it had only one way to fall- in upon itself.
The vid cites accurately cites the call of one firefighter inside calling to say there were no fires we can't control. Well, obviously he didn't see the full extent of the fires. Why were people jumping if the fires were so small? The vid's claim that the towers were in a freefall is impossible to verify because the whole last part of their collapse is obscured by the clouds of dust and ash.
do your research loser. work for the rest of you life knowing half of that is taxes for the death of your own people. everything is not peaches and cream blind fool
Another sleight of hand is the citation of the "Fire Engineering" magazine editorial complaining about the fraudulent 9-11 investigation. What the video conveniently omits is the fact that the article came out BEFORE the FEMA report, 9-11 Commission report, and NIST report were issued. Two subsequent articles, while expressing criticism, agreed with the finding that the combination of the cataclysmic plane impacts and fires weakened the structures on those floors & led to the collapse.
Claim: There was "molten steel" and only C4 explosive can cause that. It's difficult to find the source of this claim, but it was clearly anecdotal. There was not "molten steel," and even if there was, even C4 wouldn't keep it in a molten state for weeks, as is claimed. Molten metal would be more plausible, but even "molten" as in "liquid" is problematic. All we know for sure is that the rubble field was very hot and that the fires underneath burned for weeks.
So many misrepresentations in this video, so little space to debunk them, although they've all been dubunked elsewhere. Tower 7 was severely damaged by the collapse of Tower 1. Fires burned for 6 hours with no suppression efforts, possibly exacerbated by the diesel storage and fuel lines in the building. After the bldg started leaning and creaking, NYFD officials pulled people from the site, expecting the collapse. No explosions seen or heard at time of collapse.
if it was really a fire that caused the fall, the fire sure did a spectacular job of evenly distributing its heat to all four angles on both buildings. most buildings that collapse without help fall sideways. that is why they hire people to blow up buildings.
So you can't compare a fire, where all columns and girders are undamaged with an incident like this. The structure starts to lead the loads on different way into the ground - but when some of this elemts (beams, girders and columns) are already gone, the building collapses.
As a civil engineer, who spent a lot of time in construction and later calculating destructions with explosives, it's very obvious, why the towers collapsed.
lol thank u!! i was gunna say somthing back to him but i didnt even wanna waste my time..i just shook my head and scrolled down...but ur comment pretty much sumed it all up...wut an idiot...lol
oh also, I kind of cracked up when he brought up the whole "speed possible thing" for why the building collapsed. All it takes is one floor to grow too weak, collapse, the other weakened floors above it collapse as well, etc, then the rest of the floors underneath collapse cause the whole friggin building is smashing into it full force.
ok ur stupid..listen.lets say about 87 floors collapsed right..give each floor about a sec to collapse, it should have taken the building 87 secs to fall. even if u give each floor a half a sec..then that would mean it would fall in about 40 sumthing secs..somehow it managed to fall in 10. that mean about 1,000 bolts on each floor would have to pop simultaneously for it to fall the way it did. cmon b serious wake up
@clctah
You are the most gullible person on earth if you believe Silverstein's follow up explanation. If you watch the interview, which is on Youtube, it is very clear to anyone thinking clearly that Silverstein is referring to the building collapsing, not getting firefighters out (which reports say non were in the building) Not to mention that is impossible for WTC 7 to fall due to "fire" when the fire damage was minimal and it is clear it falls exactly like a controlled demolition.
rmccay88 1 year ago
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SCIENTIFIC METHOD AND POLITICAL METHOD.
SCIENTIFIC METHOD:
-HERE ARE THE FACTS. WHAT CONCLUSIONS CAN WE
DRAW FOR THEM?
POLITICAL METHOD:
-HERE'S THE CONCLUSION.
WHAT FACTS CAN WE FIND TO SUPORT IT?
WTC: A POLITICAL METHOD... 0:30
WawsestilL 1 year ago
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WawsestilL 1 year ago
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WawsestilL 1 year ago
the fire actually being not enough still leaves a lot of unanswered questions. why free fall speed etc?
A total idiot can see the bottom floors were undamaged and expected to put up resistance and slow the collapse but apparently they didnt.
m1pete 2 years ago
look thng is straight i dont beleive that some hijackers entered the plane and the plane hits the building and it falls vertically down.we r not watching a scifii movie. cmon guys america has gr8 amount of tecnology and power,and even this doesnt help then we r insulting our nation. this was a inside job.. no one can ignore all these evidence..........plz i know it is hard to accept but this is d truth..take it...it was all done by bush and his rich friends.......thank u..
ziaansari2 2 years ago
"still not hot enough to reach the melting point of steel"
So fucking what?
Melting point is irrelevant, since anyone who can use Google knows that the FAILURE POINT of steel -- when it softens enough to lose its strength -- begins at 1000F.
Office fires commonly reach 1800F.
Even a lame-ass Truther should be able to do that math.
LancedeBoil 2 years ago
What this idiot forgot is that they were the largest OFFICE buildings in the world, There are large quantities of highly flammable material(s) in office buildings. New York high rises have natural gas and thousands of gallons of diesel fuel for there generators that are usually located in a sub-basement to alleviate noise. follow the old equation Fuel+spark+oxidizer= heat/fire.
wire4001 2 years ago
yeah dumbfuck it's still not hot enough to reach the melting point of steel, GOD I HATE ppl who have "eliticism"
Cyberphreak135 2 years ago
Once that kind of load is added to a structure it was never intended to hold a sheering effect occurs as the next level fails thus adding weight to the equation as well as laminar distance. since gravity has a constant acceleration this would very quickly (as in 8-10 floors) leads to forces equal to that not of C4 but closer in relation to a medium grade nuclear explosion.
Thus concrete feasibly could be flung several miles. it would take much for a single floor to fail.
wire4001 2 years ago
Edit: It wouldn't take much for a single floor to fail. especially if two supporting walls had been compromised by oh say a plane hitting them.
wire4001 2 years ago
Steel reinforced concrete has whats known as compressive strength as well as tensile strength produced by the steel reinforcement. This means when pushed or pulled it will not break. However should you twist it the concrete will crack thus putting more load on the now open steel. the over whelm steel would over time deform and eventually fail. Now the equation Force=Weight x Gravity x Distance give you how much pressure the first collapsing floor would have put on the next.
wire4001 2 years ago
Why don't you just say you believe the official story and leave it at that because you obviously don't have much of a clue about the architecture of building seven & are trying to guess your way out with bad science.
Slim1945 2 years ago
7 was hit badly by the north tower, look it up
billstandley32 2 years ago
there were no exposives u moron
palkintokaappi 2 years ago
r u serious? wind doesnt make buildings fall for 1 thing a plane going into a building wouldmake part of the building break and other parts of it become weak and loose obviously it wasnt just jet fuel but it wasnt a conspiracy
unbeatable24 2 years ago
the planes were not made of solid steel aliminuim so they would have disintegrated on impact and the fule would have burned almost immidietly so how could this all happen????plus wtc 7???how did that collapse because of a fire in the lobby????
steveranio76 2 years ago
A good question would be what causes a building to collapse? totally forgeting 9/11..Im not heartless and may those victims rest in peace but people should be asking this..
zaphad1 2 years ago
The only thing I know is that the official explanation is a load of bullshit.
People need to keep researching this.
The first most obvious alternative explanation isn't necessarily the right one and nor is the second possibly..
You need to think devious maybe and think beyond that.
zaphad1 2 years ago
has a maximum size. You need to get the fuck over your self and look at the present, not the past. 3,000 people died and all you care about is a stupid conspiracy? It doesn't even matter anymore, because it happened, and there is nothing you can undo. You lack a lot of proof. Go to hell.
xXBuccinOXx 2 years ago
Shut the hell up douchebag! This guy has a good point and I too believe the government did it! And he only lacks proof because he has other videos that give more! Stupid. He just didnt want to make an hour long video! God! Don't ever talk again!
horakr10 2 years ago 3
No, terrorists did it. Don't be stupid.
ZShadow 2 years ago
Absolutely ridiculous .. how can you watch the videos of the buildings falling and actually believe that there is no conspiracy behind it? You lack intelligence and if anybody is going to hell it will be you for being a traitor.
jaekent 2 years ago
First of all, that building that burned for 19 hours could have been made with other elements such as titanium. Second of all, it was far smaller than the world trade center buildings which were 1000 ft tall plus or minus 10 ft. They weighed much much more than the other building, and the aircrafts impact had severely damaged the steel structure at that point in the first place. The steel doesnt have to melt, it was the stress of the size. If you study physics, you will learn that *continued*
xXBuccinOXx 2 years ago
how dare you say in memory, your killing there memory. you are a horrible person for actually believing this shit. you have the same stupid mind as al gore..HEY EVERYBODY, THE WORLD IS FLAT!!!! wait isn't it, it must be because i dont believe in global warming
daniels4ever 3 years ago
and what if you were wrong, and they had a way to see that. how disgusted they would be at you. it's always better to question and risk being wrong than never questioning at all.
dabuddha669 3 years ago
i agree, you should always question everything, i myself live by that...but there are just some things you know you shouldn't question because there so illogical. And no, they wouldn't be disappointed, they'd be glad at least one person knows that they didn't die to go to war, they died because they believed in freedom, and some people just can't accept that.
daniels4ever 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
yea dude sometimes i question if im a human, i seriously believe that questioning everything is the rigt thing. ur a fuckin fag. 3,000 people died and all u can say is that it was a conspiracy. burn in hell
lfscouts24 3 years ago
so what you think it was planned, you think our government brought down the towers?
daniels4ever 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
me? i dont believe this shit. this stuff is complete muslim poop
lfscouts24 3 years ago
"you are claiming office fires burn hotter than jet fuel? Your claim is spurious"
Well, dipshit? You've already been proven dead wrong, so what the fuck are you hiding for? Not man enough to admit when you screw up?
And we're still waiting for your proof that NASA found temperatures hot enough to MELT steel.
ReemYakrevice 4 years ago
"Your claim is spurious office fires dont have a set temprature"
No, he's right. University of Manchester's Fire Engineering site says temps commonly reach 1600-1800F in office fires. Unlike WTC, most office fires are able to be fought, and usually don't have the automatic sprinkler systems destroyed by planes. WTC was probably the only high rise fire that was completely unable to be fought at all, and whose water supply & lines were wiped out on impact.
SonsOfAzazel 4 years ago
"nasa thermal images show tempratures high enough to be associated with molten steel"
Speaking of idiots who don't do research --
The highest temperature NASA recorded was 1377F, which is a hell of a lot cooler than steel melts.
Maybe in some weird Truther parallel universe, perhaps....
Not to mention that reports of molten metal are hardly indicative of steel, considering the amount of aluminum in the buildings & planes.
Pay attention.
blueshark69 4 years ago
"would have all burnt off pretty much on impact"
Yes, but irrelevant since office fires burn hotter than that, and the main function of the jet fuel in this case was to initiate/accelerate the office fires. Some truthers harp on an NIST comment that certain beams didn't show burns consistent with temps hotter than 250C. Also irrelevant, but they're trying to have it both ways.
blueshark69 4 years ago
All these conspiracy theorists make me fucking sick! This was an act of terrorism!! It wasn't staged or planned out by our own government. Show me solid evidence that missiles were fired into those building. I said SOLID EVIDENCE! Not some crackpot government hater who thinks everything that happens in this Country is a conspiracy. If these were military planes as some have suggested then where are the hijacked planes and what happened to all the people on board those flights???
klk2112 4 years ago
People like andyk369 never bother with facts or proof, since they get in the way of their wild-ass fantasies. As soon as someone proves that one of his fantasies is pure bullshit, he just turns around and lays another steaming pile, hoping no one will remember that he made a complete fool of himself.
BlazingFerret 4 years ago
So you think that hot spots must be molten steel rather than molten aluminum ... ??
Any good reason, since there was no shortage of aluminum in that wreckage. The entire outside of the bldg, in fact.
makes little difference which it was, but either one jerks a knot in the usual truther claims that temperatures didn't exceed 250C.
The other half of the truthers claim the opposite, but consistency has never been their strong suit.
ReemYoranus 4 years ago
can anyone explain the molten steel.. this fact?"
No fact at all, and any red-glowing remains were more likely aluminum, since the whole bldg esterior was clad in it, not to mention the huge airliner that exploded into it.
Might help if you did a little basic research on the web instead of hanging around loony websites that spoon-feed you morons.
HaidDeSalaami 4 years ago
metal was found at the bases of both buildings 1 and 2,in excess of 1500 degrees SIX weeks later,i don't know if it started out as molten,but it'd have to be pretty damned hot,even if it was as insulated as it would have been,to stay 1500+ degrees for more than a month
ViralMessiah 4 years ago
last comment replied to veevolution.
jeffdtmpls 4 years ago
Thanks for the sane, obvious explanation backed up by the laws of physics, and common sense, which there is a lack of among these mentally deficient losers who are desperate for self-worth and meaning in their lives by means of the same visceral hate they claim to despise.
jeffdtmpls 4 years ago
Yeah the other buildings they show that haven't fallen while on fire were no where near the size of the towers. Nor were they struck by such a massive object that COULD have damaged the internal structures. Think about that.
cgerken44 4 years ago
heres another idea,no steel frame building,under any circumstances,at any temperature,has EVER fallen due to fire,i'm to believe that for just one day,the laws of physics were suspended,and three buildings fell on the same day,on the same block,one without even sustaining any damage,all in a neat pile...bullshit
ViralMessiah 4 years ago
"no steel frame building,under any circumstances,at any temperature,has EVER fallen due to fire"
Bullshit. If you pathetic little conspiracy freaks were smart enough to use Google you could find plenty of steel-framed bldgs that collapsed due to fire.
But you'd rather swallow Alex Jones' conspiratorial sperm rather than actually check anything.
Too many big words confuse you?
HaidDeSalaami 4 years ago
it seems to me,that you're awfully aggressive about something that you don't know anything about. generally insults are a tool of people who lack facts,as it turns out,you didn't use any big words,you just used a lot of insults to disguise the fact that you presented no facts,and you also seem to have a fixation with swallowing sperm,whats that about?
ViralMessiah 4 years ago
"you presented no facts"
Maybe the big words confused you, too, but he pointed out that the "no steel bldg has ever collapsed due to fire" claim was pure, unadulterated bullshit. And that's a fact, whether you truther fruits like it or not.
blueshark69 4 years ago
maybe the wtc project says that it was made of steal but the constructor built it in cheap materials and kept the rest of the money
AndreCbrito 4 years ago
The awnsers to all your questions is.... YOUR A FUCKING IGNORANT DUMBASS!!
Maxunlimited2 4 years ago
I completely agree with this video. The government has too much power. We need a new government. It's that simple.
SmoovDrift 4 years ago
thats kinda the point of the government. If they didn't have power, our country would probably be controlled by some crazy ass dictator.
bippnblast 4 years ago
More self-deluded liberal propaganda. Traitors all.
GrandPrix55 4 years ago
high rise controled demolition; first you must get down to raw steel remove dry wall and fire proofing cut center of beem with torch(shape charges wont work on center and outside at same time on i beem)set charges wire charges 2pr beem 47 beams pr floor 55 floors(every other floor)x2=10,340 charges 5170 beems twins t's only with out being seen..write it down i am geting kicked off ct sites mabe last time u c me
GSpocK1 4 years ago
Ever notice that when a building is imploded the charges go off first then the building drops. I've never seen footage where the charges go off during the fall. Who ever post this needs to get their head out of the a$-$ and get a fuçking education.
You're a moron.
siriusdesigner 4 years ago
amen to that
ilyearer 4 years ago
thats funny. youre the one who needs an education. you CAN see evidence of controlled demo by looking at the 'squibs' which are tufts of smoke that jet out from the building - those are characteristics of a controlled demolition.
KingRamzes 4 years ago
Really? Wow so when they strap the dynamite to the load bearing members of a building they don't wrap the dynamite in fencing and the cover that with planks of wood to prevent chunks of concrete from blowing outward and the dynamite from blowing away from the pilones. (If you believe that then try holding an M80 in your closed fist.) I didn't know that.
siriusdesigner 4 years ago
...Continued Or the fact that the WTC towers have only 8 load bearing members and that they're located in the four corners of the and in the center of the building and the structural supports that made the building so strong were the trusses. ...To be Continued...
siriusdesigner 4 years ago
... Continued
Oh and then the trusses are paved over in concrete. HMMM really. So I guess that the colapsing of those trusses paved in concrete and materials between them(like air, dirt and concrete dust) would never have been blown (let's say) outward through the windows. Windows being so strong and all. It's sort of like running your head over with a car, the air that fills it would be blown out, like a WTC.
... To Be continued
siriusdesigner 4 years ago
There are videos which clearly show small amounts of dirt and dust blown out from at least 10 different windows, BEFORE the falling debris even reaches them.
If you've ever seen any videos of buildings being demolished, the explosions aren't that huge. The thing is, when there's a couple of floors falling down, it's likely to draw your attention from those small explosions.
CountAbel 4 years ago
... Continued. Oh and by the way I'm sure that thousands of people just happened to overlook that thousands and thousands of pounds of TNT being carried into the WTC.I'm sure that they thought, "Hmm I wonder why they're strapping Dynamite to those pillars? Must be a new Stockmarket tactic."
To be Continued...
siriusdesigner 4 years ago
You seem very passionate about this, yet you havent said anything fact-based. There were 47 support collumns in the center of each building. These columns were the main weight-bearing support for each of the towers.
KingRamzes 4 years ago
The weeks before 911 2001 there were numerous evacuations of the building done in order of section. They were said to be "security drills". This is the time we believe the demolitions were placed but it is also theorized that there were several maintanance workers who were on the job constantly that could have been doing it over at least a 2 month stretch.The only concrete in the building was the center of each floor level and covered by carpet.
KingRamzes 4 years ago
If the building followed the "pancake theory" (which ppl like yourself believe) these floors would remain in partial tact, considering the fact it should look like a stack of floors on the ground where the building was. Instead, they were pulverized into a pyroclastic cloud. Pyroclastic clouds can only be made by explsions.
KingRamzes 4 years ago
None of the steel support was paved in concrete like you say it was because the steel was coated in a foam of asbestos. The WTC was waivered for containing the asbestos and the owner, Larry Silverstein, was told to remove it somehow which was virtually impossible.
KingRamzes 4 years ago
It would have cost 1 billion+ to get all the asbestos from The Towers.
RexNunc 4 years ago
The same thousands and thousands of people happened to overlook the fact that almost half of the security staff and all the dogs used for detecting explosives were removed from the building just a day before the accident.
CountAbel 4 years ago
oh, and why don't you conspirators provide actual scientific proof instead of providing your conclusions without evidence and the stuff you pull out of context?
ilyearer 4 years ago
here's proof it wasn't a conspiracy (and read the whole article, i give you conspiracy morons the courtesy of sitting through your bullshit, so do the same if you believe yourselves to be correct): google "9/11 debunking the myths" and click on the popular mechanics link
ilyearer 4 years ago
xXdreadnautXx, get your head out of your ass and take a real look at the evidence. DUNBASSSSSSS!!!!!!
hugeen 4 years ago
sorry DUMBASSSSSSS!!!!!!!
hugeen 4 years ago
Look at this link regarding Thermate
Search thermite vs car
The second vid shows what happens to an engine block!
And this is the less effective compound!!!!
bazrippa 4 years ago
That's exactly what thermite / thermate used for - vertical cuts. Not demolitions of structures.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
I am saying that it is not possible to have office equipment acheive high enough temps to melt steel! As melted steel was found at the site of WTC7 this is of high importance i would think!!
Directional explosive devices are used in conjunction with Thermate, Who are you trying to convince ME????
Please do not apply spin to my comments, Leave that to the politicians!!!!!!!
bazrippa 4 years ago
"I am saying that it is not possible to have office equipment acheive high enough temps to melt steel"
You're right, but there was no steel melted and no thermographic scans showed the debris piles got hot enough to melt steel. The office materials and fuel oil were hot enough to melt other metals.
There are no such directional devices that are used in conjunction with thermate. Jones suggested that but he is not a demo expert & apparently didn't check with demo experts.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
Google Earth and maps are snapshots of physical places. They don't find people.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
We are talking about a much bigger plan here "New world order" which Bush senior proposed while he was in office, The towers were simply a tool to bring a fighting spirit to the US citizens so the US could declare war! It worked too as hardly anyone complained about the war against terror.
The people that died in 9-11 were an acceptable loss to a government with a much higher agenda
bazrippa 4 years ago
people waste so much time trying to convince people of the truth when they "CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH" nor do they want to know it. It's like the scene in the "MATRIX" when Morpheus says most of these people couldn't accept the truth. What would happen to America if it's highest ranking leaders were found to be guilty of such high treason? Life as we know it would have to end, and world wide war would have to erupt.
72jamminjimmy 4 years ago
exactly what they want u to think
drillahmon 4 years ago
uhhh How about the fucking world trade center 7? seriously guys...... think about it. That is the most suspicious evidence.
hero121212 4 years ago
PoetryHound is a government spook here to sway the opinion of others. Like a psyop.
OperationMockingbird 4 years ago
yah. i had lunch with elvis last week, right after my fishing trip with tupac.
fdakis 4 years ago
There is a conspiracy and the Shadow Government (USA) is presently paying off 32,786 co-conspirators. Among them are firefighters, policemen, news personnel, Hare Krishna chanters and—
Oops. Make that 32,785.
WindowOpportunity 4 years ago
Did you SEE THAT??? The controlled demolition of the freeway interchange approach to the SF Bay Bridge? Do you actually think that the flames from a mere tanker truck of petrol could generate enough heat to soften steel encased in concrete? HAH!!! Did you see the evidence of the Thermite and shaped charges bringing down that overpass? Look at the drape of that collapsed slab of freeway. CLEARLY the result of intentional demolition!
satweavers 4 years ago
hehe you conspiracy people are nuts!! why dont you examine the facts before you snort some coke and smoke some dope?...what happened to the countless people that must have been involved in this conspiracy?...why havent they spoken?...and if im part of this conspiracy, how come i havent killed you yet? ooooooohhh look out im tapping your phone and im probably going to get killed for doing it
roastbeefdinner 4 years ago
I don't see how this proof can be disproved. Obviously YOU'RE the nut if you believe planes actually did this, you simply can't trust the media, you're INSANE!!!
alexavier2012 4 years ago
WTC7 was defiantly a controlled explosion. Any idiot can see that. I know it should have taken hundreds of men and weeks of preparation to blow up the WTC, and it would have been impossible to do with out being noticed, but our government contracted aliens to do the work. They have a device that renders them invisible. Wake up people. We can't trust our government. They lie to us. Just like when they said the world was round. It's not! Just look out your window. Flat as a pancake.
eddie167 5 years ago
I know that 9/11 was conspiracy along with JKF's assassination but come on! Aliens? The world being round?
I am not saying that aliens aren't out there, but do you realize how crazy you sound? And There is more than enough evidence that the world is round!
UltimoDestructo94 4 years ago
It's all crazy. I was making fun it. 9/11 wasn't a conspiracy. Believing it was is what is crazy!
eddie167 4 years ago
Sure you were... You didn't sound like you were joking until you cam to the part about aliens.
UltimoDestructo94 4 years ago
no it doesnt a professional demolition team can prep a building to be demolished in 3 hours.
LeoZM1 4 years ago
During the controlled demolition of the Hudson building in Detroit (439 feet), a 21-man crew needed three months to investigate and four months to complete preparations. It took a 12-person crew 24 days to place 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations. They used over 36,000 feet of detonating chord and 4,512 non-electric delay elements. For a building less than a third the size of one of the WTC towers.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
Tell me why the steel framing at the bottom of the debris was cut with a razor sharp diagonal shape? I guess your explination for that is that the shear weight of the um falling building ripped a perfect cut on several of the main supports right? Do you work for the government? Stop trying to misinform the people who really see whats going on. Many instances of government/military cover ups that harmed citizens for the want to change have been revealed. Even presidents revealed it in shame.
krax12982 4 years ago
Cuts were made by ironworkers at Ground Zero.
I do not work for the government. I believe the CTers are the ones engaged in spreading misinformation.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
Poetryhound you are quite well informed on the subject which is obvious but i think that you are finding your information from sources that (If the CTs are right) could have been tampered with!
Why dont the government let independent reports be compiled then the truth would be known!
THAT is what they are afraid of.
bazrippa 4 years ago
bazrippa, scientists & engineers greatly value their reputations. If a gov't official tried to manipulate their findings, that tampering would be leaked pretty quickly. Still,
I wouldn't mind if another investigation were undertaken. But who would fund it? Who would be the chairman and which structural engineers, metallurgists, seismologists, etc. would be the investigators? The NIST investigators were some of the most highly regarded engineers in the country, so who would be better?
PoetryHound 4 years ago
PoetryHound, Many skilled and highly regarded scientists have already put their reputations on the line and stepped up to discount the NIST reports and state that the report is not satisfactory.
An independent investigation was scheduled but the government intervened, deeming it un necessary. WHY?
bazrippa 4 years ago
I've read all the criticism and in not one case do they ever cite a specific finding or calculation that the NIST engineers got wrong. They say make general statements and in the case of some of them, like Rice and Ross, they make incorrect statements.
I don't know about any scheduled investigation. How could the gov't intervene if it was independent?
PoetryHound 4 years ago
It is not that they made any incorrect calculations!
It is that they missed out some very important facts, things were overlooked and the reports while they may be factual, are not complete.
If no Thermate was used under building 7 then why were there molten pools of metal under the structure after it fell?????
bazrippa 4 years ago
Molten debris was also reported under WTC 6, which no one claims had any explosives or incendiaries placed in it.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
Poetryhound may be well informed but it seems that he doesnt have all the answers eh?
Building 7? Molten metal? WHY?
bazrippa 4 years ago
No one has all the answers. But we have the most likely answers. The reports of molten metal are anecdotal. No one anaylzed the hot spots to determine their composition but there was a lot of aluminum and other metals with low melting points relative to steel. There's no explosive or incentiary that would keep metal in a molten form over time. BTW, NIST did not overlook WTC 7.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
You say that "no one analysed the hot spots to determine their composition" Should this not have been an important place for NIST to start???
This is an example of NIST overlooking WTC7 which you claimed in the same sentence that they didnt do!!
AMAZING
The truth is the metal was analysed and if you opened your mind to the possibility that their may have been a cover up you would have already known that the hallmarks of Thermate were present!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bazrippa 4 years ago
There were higher priorities at Ground Zero than studying the composition of the hot spots. In any event, NIST only examined what led to the point where global collapse was inevitable, not subsequent reactions under the debris. NIST did not overlook WTC 7. Why would you claim that? Jones made the thermate claim but no scientists or engineers in relevant fields concur.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
Poetryhound, Please search John Grost confronted.
He denied all knowledge of the hotspots and this is a NIST Scientist!
How could they reach any conclusions without all the facts???
We are talking about a MURDER scene here and the scene was cleared like a demolition site!!
The steel structure was even shipped abroad to be melted down...
bazrippa 4 years ago
bazrippa, I suggest you stop relying on conspiracy sites for all your "information." They are accountable to no one and post whatever rumor or untruth they feel like. NIST examined what caused the collapses, nothing else. The hotspots happened AFTER the collapses & were caused by fires, not by explosives or incendiaries. Structural engineers had all the time they wanted to examine the steel before it was sold.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
The other thing to remember is that thermate reacts fast and cools quickly. It would not keep metal in a molten form for 5 minutes, let alone for the weeks the hotspots existed.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
If i am to avoid conspiracy sites then how would i find any information at all as the official reports and debunking sites are all full of holes.
Thermate is not what was found, it was molten metal with evidence of Thermate in it! While it is true that thermate cools quickly the metal that it comes in contact with does not. Fires cannot cause molten metal.
You should stop giving me advice and start studying the situation with an OPEN mind my friend!!!!!!
bazrippa 4 years ago
"molten metal with evidence of Thermate in it!"
Oxidation & sulfidation of steel was found - intergranular melting is not the same as melting from thermate. No "thermate" was found. Jones alleges the byproducts of a thermate residue were found. Do you know what those byproducts would be?
"thermate cools quickly the metal that it comes in contact with does not."
If the thermate reaction has already cooled, what would keep the metal in a molten form?
PoetryHound 4 years ago
I am trying to keep this simple so that the average person can be involved! If you insist on testing my knowledge.
The Thermate compound would be Thermite with a small amount of sulfur and a large amount of barium nitrate.
The molten metal would form pools at the lowest point of the basements of the buildings and as One cubic meter of iron weighs about 8.5 tons and this would take a lot longer than 5 minutes to cool.
bazrippa 4 years ago
Sorry, I'm not trying to test your knowledge. But if you're going to claim evidence of thermite or thermate was found, you need to know what the byproducts of these reactions are. Even Jones is not upfront about that. Thermite isn't something that would be found. Sulfur is, but that could come from many different sources. Jones found no barium nitrate in the steel samples.
Without a heat source, steel (no matter how much) would not remain in molten form for more than minutes.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
So how could molten metal be found 6 weeks later?
We have well documented and publicised evidence of this!
The truth is that the larger the mass of the steel, the longer it takes to cool!
Eg if you heated 1kg of steel to 1000deg and 1000kg of steel to the same temperature then which would cool sooner?
The more molten steel you have then the longer it would take to cool.....
bazrippa 4 years ago
"So how could molten metal be found 6 weeks later?
We have well documented and publicised evidence of this!"
The temps were hot enough to melt metal but not steel. The fires in the rubble had a lot of fuel from the office materials in the buidlings. Possibly some fuel oil as well. Nothing else explains it.
Sure, more steel would mean some more minutes to cool. But not weeks.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
The other thing to remember is that even if thermate had been used, a relatively small part of each steel piece would be "molten" in the first place - only the place on each column where the thermate cuts were made. After that place is finished being cut, it immediatly starts solidifying.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
So you are admitting that it is a possibility that cuts could have been made then???????
If not then how could the high temperatures shown by the NASA thermal imaging be acheived???????
Office equipment or Diesel fuel could not achieve these temperatures so please do not use this as an explanation!!!!
bazrippa 4 years ago
"So you are admitting that it is a possibility that cuts could have been made then"
You must have misunderstood me. Even in a hypothetical situation in which thermate could have been used, it wouldn't result in much motlen steel. How come you didn't understand that?
Again, the high temps were not hot enough to melt steel. The fires were fueled by office materials and possibly by fuel oil as well. No other explanation makes sense. Who says they couldn't achieve high temps?
PoetryHound 4 years ago
joder, se ve claramente que es una explosion controlada.
Solo recuerden como empezo la guerra entre USA y España. Con la auto-explosion del acorazado Maine, que sirvio para justificarla de cara a la opinion publica americana, y quedarse con Cuba,Puerto Rico y Filipinas.
No engañan a nadie. Y encima despues las mentiras para justificar la guerra de Irak... Como pueden tener un presidente asi?.
Galicianceibe 5 years ago
I gonna trow a million of tons of rubble nearby your house so you will see what happens with the foundations and the groud beneath it do the experiment and you will find out waht happened with tower 7 you idiot Sincerely: A Civil Engineering Student.
franciscojavierm 5 years ago
go back to bed amerika your government is in control
kirrielass 5 years ago
lol! That's retarded! Sincerity will get you nowhere! Especially when your freedom is at stake!
themiln 5 years ago
You forgot one thing, before the attacks a truck with gold was transported away from the tower just 1 day before the attack happened
Ministock85h 5 years ago
Ministock85h, what's the significance of that and how do you know it's true?
PoetryHound 5 years ago
only retars can sek jesuses help in times like theese, cant u see that great evil rules the word, where was jesus to stop it .. reasonale people are now on their own .. we must unite if we wanna live!
lacollll 5 years ago
KOHVERSOHER i work around planes everyday for the past 15 years and i can tell you from personal experience that the planes didnt have any extra tanks
johnhunt70 5 years ago
FUCK man its clear its a conspiracy,there are photos of the jets flying into the towers have extra fuel tanks under them,even tho they did not have those on take off,the pentagon crash is so pathetic cause the biggest airplane part found there was 1.7m large,bush just wanted a reason to blame iraq and take theyre oil wells
kohversohver 5 years ago
Are you an expert on airplane crashes? Tell us how big you think the airplane parts should have been.
PoetryHound 5 years ago
i dont give a shit how fast a plane crashes into something... an engine will not disappear. its bullshit to say a plane disappears after crashing and bodies also.
krax12982 4 years ago
Nothing "disappeared" and no one claims it did. The FL 77 plane was largely shredded. Only a few larger pieces were found. Of course bodies were destroyed, but human fragments were indeed found. How come you didn't know this? Are you only reading unaccountable conspiracy web sites?
PoetryHound 4 years ago
I watched the Fox footage of FL 93 exactly after it had been reported. There was what could be considered a very small hole for a plane slamming into it. 10x15ft . Also there was nothing around the area that even ressembled a part of a plane. Where does tons and tons of frame and body and engine along with people go?
krax12982 4 years ago
Yes, CTers constantly claim the entry hole was too small and the misinformation seems to have reached you too. Sometimes they point to the wrong hole. The real hole was plenty big enough. There are scores of witnesses with real names and identities who witnessed the crash. There was a lot of debris. Maybe you just can't see it in the videos or photos. Like I said, the plane was largely shredded.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
So Poetryhound are you satisfied that all questions regarding buildings 1-2-7 and the pentagon have been answered satisfactorily?? If so i would love to know where you have found this evidence?, i am not a conspiracy theorist but i would like find an accurate explanation of these events, which the US Government obviously does not want to give!! BUT WHY?
bazrippa 4 years ago
A good starting point to explaining why WTC 1&2 collapsed is the NIST report, prepared by a team of 200 of some of the top government, private, and university engineers and metallurgists. Their interim report on WTC 7 gives a good start at explaining WTC 7's collapse. Plus there are a number of independent analyses. Meanwhile, I have found the CTer explanations to consist of unsubstantiated assertions, misinterpretations, misrepresentations, & speculation.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
But the official report stated that they had no explanation for the collapse of building 7! Putting the most important buildings aside for now EG 1 and 2 please point me to somewhere that i could find some sort of satisfactory evidence that the falling of building 7 was an accident!!!!!!!!!
I dont want to hear what the government heard i want hard evidence or i will beleive the conspiracists story!!!! SIMPLE
bazrippa 4 years ago
"But the official report stated that they had no explanation for the collapse of building 7!"
That's incorrect. If you're interested in the scientific & factual analysis of WTC 7 & not unsubstantiated conspiracy speculation, read NIST's interim report by googling NIST appendix L.
Here's an article by a physicist and mechanical engineer:
w w w*counterpunch*org (slash) darkfire11282006.html
Here's a paper that debunks all the WTC 7 myths:
w w w*911myths*com (slash) WTC7_Lies.doc
PoetryHound 4 years ago
Thank you hopefully i can find some explanations here.
I will post when i finish reading them!
bazrippa 4 years ago
The thing that bothers me about these reports is the amount of detail that they go into!
Where is the simple explanation to the amount of molten metal found under WTC7? Qualified professionals have put their reputations on the line in pursuit of the facts. If conspiracy theorists have gone to the effort of finding evidence which requires explanation then surely the government with all of their resources can knock up a report that makes sense to the average person???
bazrippa 4 years ago
Yes, lots of details. Sorry if it's too much for you. In summary:
WTC7 suffered serious damage from falling debris from WTC 1.
It was leaning before it fell.
Fires burned for six hours.
The FDNY feared it would collapse 2 hours before it did.
No demolition charges were seen or heard.
No seismographs picked up any demo charges.
There still is no logical reason for a) blowing it up, and b) waiting until 5:20 pm to do it.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
Explain what the "flash" of light was on the front of both planes that was recorded by several sources Mr All Knowing Poetry Hound. I guess that is natural for a plane to flash before impact right? Explain Silverstein's response to pulling it. Explain why the govrnment wants a NWO. Several presidents mentioned NWO and that is a sale out of the people of the USA
krax12982 4 years ago
Flashes occur at point of collision, not before.
"Pull it" doesn't mean "blow up" & there was no reason for him to blow up his building.
NWO had nothing to do with 911.
PoetryHound 4 years ago
This is truth, I can't beleive you don't trust your own eyes!! I am swiss and an enginner and believe me I don't like conspiracy theories but I see what I see and it was a demolition whoever done it!
Wake up and open your eyes.
sydbourne 5 years ago
Unfortunately, opening one's eyes is not enough. One also needs understanding. For example, one needs to understand that not a single demolition expert says the twin towers came down in a controlled demolition. Not one. In the world.
PoetryHound 5 years ago
portland DOT indymedia DOT org/en/2006/06/341238.shtml
do your research loser. work for the rest of you life knowing half of that is taxes for the death of your own people. everything is not peaches and cream blind fool
krax12982 4 years ago
"do your research loser."
I've done more than you.
"everything is not peaches and cream"
Correct.
"blind fool"
Incorrect
PoetryHound 4 years ago
--why are you afraid to do so?--what are you afraid you might find? Do some studying of Bush's past, Cheney's power, the PNAC report, who was in charge of security at the WTC, the $ made on the stock market from moves made just before 911, the dilemma of Peak Oil, the $ trail for
dbrigham6 5 years ago
it seems to me that you are making excuses for the government, the real terrorists, and one should never have to make an excuse for government--remember, the way our Declaration of Independence was written, the fore fathers were EXPLICITLY defining the contract that government makes with the people, and if that responsibility is ever breeched in any way, it is not only the right of the people, but also the responsibility of the people to challenge their government
dbrigham6 5 years ago
It's strange what your government does.It is owned.All governments are. Some do good.Few. Many evil.Owned but not by the people. Even with the Democrats, they too shall fold before the power unleashed.The Democrats are going to be more useful to them than the Republicans. America is on its way down.Every nation has a rise and then, a fall.We won't last as long as Rome.In fact our end as a nation is soon to be.The ink is dry.It is what your government doesn't say you should fear.
BradW59 5 years ago
WTC was built different than any other skyscraper of its day- pre-fab floors dropped in place on top of little clips attached to the supports. Little clips held the floors- floors held the steel supports in place. Many steel supports were severed- see pix. Steel can bend when warmed- it doesn't have to "melt" or liquify. Clips warmed and bent, the floors came down.
Due to the Bldgs design, basically a hollow tube, it had only one way to fall- in upon itself.
SWSimpson 5 years ago
The vid cites accurately cites the call of one firefighter inside calling to say there were no fires we can't control. Well, obviously he didn't see the full extent of the fires. Why were people jumping if the fires were so small? The vid's claim that the towers were in a freefall is impossible to verify because the whole last part of their collapse is obscured by the clouds of dust and ash.
PoetryHound 5 years ago
portland DOT indymedia DOT org/en/2006/06/341238.shtml
do your research loser. work for the rest of you life knowing half of that is taxes for the death of your own people. everything is not peaches and cream blind fool
krax12982 4 years ago
Another sleight of hand is the citation of the "Fire Engineering" magazine editorial complaining about the fraudulent 9-11 investigation. What the video conveniently omits is the fact that the article came out BEFORE the FEMA report, 9-11 Commission report, and NIST report were issued. Two subsequent articles, while expressing criticism, agreed with the finding that the combination of the cataclysmic plane impacts and fires weakened the structures on those floors & led to the collapse.
PoetryHound 5 years ago
Claim: There was "molten steel" and only C4 explosive can cause that. It's difficult to find the source of this claim, but it was clearly anecdotal. There was not "molten steel," and even if there was, even C4 wouldn't keep it in a molten state for weeks, as is claimed. Molten metal would be more plausible, but even "molten" as in "liquid" is problematic. All we know for sure is that the rubble field was very hot and that the fires underneath burned for weeks.
PoetryHound 5 years ago
So many misrepresentations in this video, so little space to debunk them, although they've all been dubunked elsewhere. Tower 7 was severely damaged by the collapse of Tower 1. Fires burned for 6 hours with no suppression efforts, possibly exacerbated by the diesel storage and fuel lines in the building. After the bldg started leaning and creaking, NYFD officials pulled people from the site, expecting the collapse. No explosions seen or heard at time of collapse.
PoetryHound 5 years ago
omg ur just as stupid as bush
knice87 5 years ago
the harsh truth about 911
garvaggio 5 years ago
if it was really a fire that caused the fall, the fire sure did a spectacular job of evenly distributing its heat to all four angles on both buildings. most buildings that collapse without help fall sideways. that is why they hire people to blow up buildings.
Smokey1424 5 years ago
America(n)! You DESERVE it!!!
gurelin 5 years ago
Another thing - gravity is constand, but the velocity is increasing more and more during the fall. That's simple physics and mechanics.
If you like, you can check ot my video of one of our projects - the building (22 stories) is starting slowly, getting faster through the fall.
keyboarddancer 5 years ago
So you can't compare a fire, where all columns and girders are undamaged with an incident like this. The structure starts to lead the loads on different way into the ground - but when some of this elemts (beams, girders and columns) are already gone, the building collapses.
keyboarddancer 5 years ago
As a civil engineer, who spent a lot of time in construction and later calculating destructions with explosives, it's very obvious, why the towers collapsed.
They could resist an impact of an airliner (707)
They could resist fire
But not both damages at a time.
keyboarddancer 5 years ago
u r a civil engeneer? i dont think u have a highschool diploma
garvaggio 5 years ago
You don't think? Better say, that you try to think. I have a diploma and can proove it. But show me a proove, that you are able to think. :-) :-) :-)
keyboarddancer 5 years ago
r u off ur medication?
garvaggio 5 years ago
lol thank u!! i was gunna say somthing back to him but i didnt even wanna waste my time..i just shook my head and scrolled down...but ur comment pretty much sumed it all up...wut an idiot...lol
knice87 5 years ago
oh also, I kind of cracked up when he brought up the whole "speed possible thing" for why the building collapsed. All it takes is one floor to grow too weak, collapse, the other weakened floors above it collapse as well, etc, then the rest of the floors underneath collapse cause the whole friggin building is smashing into it full force.
thmnetwork 5 years ago
ok ur stupid..listen.lets say about 87 floors collapsed right..give each floor about a sec to collapse, it should have taken the building 87 secs to fall. even if u give each floor a half a sec..then that would mean it would fall in about 40 sumthing secs..somehow it managed to fall in 10. that mean about 1,000 bolts on each floor would have to pop simultaneously for it to fall the way it did. cmon b serious wake up
knice87 5 years ago
yaaaa
infidel4life 5 years ago
This is some pretty hard evidence, but what if the terrorist brought a bunch of like C4 onto the plane? anyone ever think of that?
Tpiglet 5 years ago