Panchen Lama, Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden, China Government

[MrLiberal91]

Tib leader had brain washed layman from generation to generation for their benifit not easily changeble

[MrLiberal91]

How hard u try to explain to this green brain tib dala people never change until die

[MrBuddhaBoi]

Now the Shugdenpa's admit the CCP Link. This website is no different than WSS and the NKT. They hide their hatred of His Holiness the Dalai Lama but pieces of CCP Propaganda pop out.

[groupthinkful]

What a STUPID video. Grow some brain cells for the greater good.

[xeremos]

This picture is photoshopped. You can view it next to the original by doing a Google search for the "A Great Deception" blog.

[Varavaken]

Delhi High Court dismisses Dorje Shugden Devotees´charges.

(April 5, 2010)

[NKTsurvivors]

The 'bigger' issue, beyond the personal, is the terrible pushing in the NKT - if you have problems, get them sorted by meditating, meditating. And if it

doesn't work, it's your problem. It's the most damaging aspect of

meditation in the NKT I think. It makes you ill. Everywhere else I go

it's really really gentle...Loads of Tibetan teachers go on about not

pushing to us, as westerners, they even laugh about it, cos we are

so 'hardcore' and attached to results...

[vinayahoIder]

Wisdomfleeing, RedFlagNiece, KacheMuppet, ZamBlam, yadda yadda yadda, all the same person.

Makes you wonder - what is one person doing only 24/7, posing as different people, just to DISS the Dalai Lama.

Hmm, the only other people doing that are Chinese mainlanders working for the Propaganda Department.

[wisdombeing]

talking about channeling aid by the TGIE.. i dont think it's very Buddhist to deny Tibetan Shugden practitioners from basic amenities - food, medical help, schooling. What have the shugden practitioners done? Im a foreigner and can practice whether the Dalai lama likes it or not, but i dont think it's fair to the Tibetans who are being ostracised and basically blackmailed into giving up the practice.

[Varavaken]

@wisdombeing

Nobody believes in WSS-lies.

[wisdombeing]

@Varavaken the great thing about democracy is that people can believe what they wish to believe. What is lie and what is truth? Only knowledge and wisdom will guide us.

As for the assertion that i am the same person as the list of other people, i can very well assure you that i'm not. I am only three - me, i and myself.

[wisdombeing]

And - if you read my posts carefully, i do not criticise the Dalai Lama - i disagree with his ban on Dorje Shugden, definitely, and will repeat ad nauseum why i disagree - here there and everywhere, but i do not criticise the Dalai Lama because Dorje Shugden said i shouldn't and that's good enough for me.

[TheRedNiece]

@wisdombeing i agree with you that a clear distinction should be made between (a) not agreeing with the ban and (b) going against the dalai lama. There is a huge different between the two.

There are many, many, many, many DS practitioners who do not wish anything negative against dalai lama but just do not agree with the ban and are very much saddened by the actions of the TGIE in discriminating against DS practitioners, ostracising them and denying them welfare.

[Varavaken]

@wisdombeing

It´s perfectly OK to scriticize the Dalai Lama, wisdombeing. You don´t have to agree with him. WSS´s character assassination is something else. The pro-Chinese Trimondi couple is doing the same thing. Trashing the Dalai Lama seems popular these days.

[wisdombeing]

@Varavaken whether it's ok to criticise the DL or not is personal i guess. I respect him and will not criticise him personally - to me, personal means calling him names.. which are really uncalled for when we are all adults. i can disagree with his policies, like i can disagree with any religious or political leader, but i don't agree with trashing anybody.

[TheDharmaKnight]

@wisdombeing not that i m the greatest buddhist...but isn't accusation not a good thing to be doing?

[wisdombeing]

@TheDharmaKnight you lost me at hello... i am really bad at figuring out double negatives but i think you mean that accusations are not good? i agree! :)

[TheDharmaKnight]

@Varavaken anyway, trashing DL by the WSS hasn't brought any success..

[TheRedNiece]

@TheDharmaKnight "thrashing DL by the WSS hasn't brought any success"

I agree with this in that it is important to raise awareness of what is happening and how a community of dharma practitioners are being ostracised and discriminated against, but i do not agree that we should do this by thrashing Dalai Lama, bad-mouthing or criticising him. We have to be careful it doesn't become personal.

[Varavaken]

@wisdombeing

Shugden people talk about democracy but work with the devil. The devil is the Chinese Communist Party.That´s your "wisdom", that`s your "knowledge." The Chinese Communist Party is guiding you.

While political prisoners are being tortured to death in Chinese prisons, the triple murderers have Chinese protection.

Shugden supporters, China apologists - wake up.... What can you teach? You lack moral values.

[wisdombeing]

@Varavaken my wisdom comes from reading what the Tibetan masters say, like HH Trijang Rinpoche. Are you saying that Trijang Rinpoche was a Chinese spy? or that he was guided by the Chinese Communist Party?

[Varavaken]

@wisdombeing

"Kundeling" is not Trijang Rinpoche. DS groups today have connections with China.

A Great Deception is a great deception. You like the content, but you don´t like the style.

[wisdombeing]

@Varavaken I don't know Kundeling or what he preaches. I have only read of what HH Trijang Rinpoche has said. And i do know for SURE that not ALL DS groups have links with China.

Re Great Deception - i didn't say i liked the content :) i said it gives people a different perceptive and people should know all sides of a story, regardless of what the story is.

[Varavaken]

@wisdombeing

The Shugden societies all over the world have connections with the Delhi group. Are you not aware of K:s Chinese connections and his connection with the triple murderers? Have you not heard of the "court case"? (He´s taking the Dalai Lama to court.) I´m sure you know about this.

[wisdombeing]

@Varavaken yes i know about the court case - what i am saying is that in UK for example, we have groups who are Shugden practitioners but not related to India or China. And i've said many times previously - whether people are guilty of murder or not, it doesnt mean that ALLLLL Shugden practitioners are murderers. Like all christians are not all murderers just because there are many convicted murderers who are christian. Why condemn EVERYONE because of a few (who haven't even been found guilty?)

[Varavaken]

@wisdombeing

Shugden LEADERS are involved in criminal activities.

Shugden practitioners support and listen to these leaders (and repeat their lies).

[wisdombeing]

@Varavaken are any Shugden LEADERS proven to be involved in criminal activities? Why are they not prosecuted?

[Varavaken]

@wisdombeing

Yes, the self proclaimed lama "Kundeling" (Delhi group).

No, he is not prosecuted. Not yet.

He has connections with the triple murderers. He is conspireing with China (that makes him a political traitor), he is deceiving people, he tried to bribe local iIndians to take part in demonstations against the Dalai Lama. (Fortunally he did not succeed.) Just a few examples.

[wisdombeing]

@Varavaken i don't support nor criticise WSS.. for example, their book The Great Deception... i don't support their heavy handed criticism of the Dalai Lama BUT i would still recommend people to read it for a different perspective. If we shut off all opposition, then there is no democracy, regardless of which side you are supporting.

[AlexisBall1228]

DharmaDefender, yr arguments are indeed profound and well researched. Commendable. Thank you. I especially appreciate your comment on the TGIEs funds to be used to aid the poor in India and Nepal. I completely agree!!

[vinayahoIder]

@AlexisBall1228

Purdy hilarious for you to be commending your own alterego, DharmaDeblender.

[DharmaDefender]

I'm sorry to hear NKT didn't work out for you, but it doesn't mean they haven't worked out for other people - it's all a matter of karmic affinity :) I guess your experience really points to the importance of having a lama. if there aren't any centres near your area that aren't NKT-based, then perhaps look to centres with strong online links who send out good newsletters, have well-updated websites, etc

[DharmaDefender]

They may not necessarily be in your city (or even in your country!) but through their online work, they may be able to provide you with the guidance you need. Good luck in finding a centre that suits you :)

[DharmaDefender]

And btw, those 6 million people are exactly the same as the hundreds of millions more, whether Chinese or Tibetan. We are all suffering, and we are all living in samsara; we all equally deserve to be happy. Just because some choose Dorje Shugden as the means to liberate their minds, and some people do not, does not mean that it is the wrong choice. I hardly think that Trijang Rinpoche, Zong Rinpoche, Dromo Geshe Rinpoche, Pabongkha Rinpoche all made the wrong choice!

[pathseeker9]

@DharmaDefender

Yes, and if it's the WRONG choice, why did Dalai Lama make an exception for Trijang Rinpoche to practice DS? Why?

[DharmaDefender]

LOL not just for Trijang Rinpoche, but also for his ladrang, his students, etc because you just KNOW that a great lama like Trijang Rinpoche isn't going to keep the practice to himself (how can he, when DS benefits so many)...besides, if he's going to conduct pujas, etc who is going to help him to set up and prepare?

[DharmaDefender]

I think it's funny (and sad) that some cannot see think deeper into the significance of such an exception. Why would the Dalai Lama, who is the embodiment of compassion, ban everyone from practising DS...but not his guru? If DS is spirit worship, why doesn't the Dalai Lama fight harder to stop his guru from engaging in such harmful practices?

[DharmaDefender]

If it's about respect for his guru, and guru devotion, then perhaps His Holiness should continue practising one of the lineages he was given the transmission for...Dorje Shugden!

Having said that, how do we know that HHDL isn't practising secretly? It's not uncommon...the 101st Gaden Tripa practised it secretly the entire time he was on the Gelugpa throne. And I've heard of monks in Chinese prisons continuing with their practices (DS or not) silently, under duress & despite great surveillance.

[DharmaDefender]

If the Dalai Lama was really against Dorje Shugden, he would stop talking. Once he stops talking, there is no controversy of a monk suppressing religious freedom. Once there is no controversy, the media loses interest and Dorje Shugden's name goes out of the limelight.

[DharmaDefender]

Last legs? Funny that...last time I checked, Dorje Shugden's name was growing bigger and bigger outside the tiny Tibetan community (come on - save 6 million people, or benefit hundreds of millions more). And that this started when the ban was implemented. Before that, there was never any reason for Dorje Shugden's name to be splashed all over the news. In fact, these days, wherever the Dalai Lama's name is mentioned, Dorje Shugden's name is also mentioned.

[NorthernDancer1111]

Yeah sure and nxt thing you know you'll be gettin chips implanted in yr right hand....caveat emptor. These are evil times, don't b fooled or lured by material or monetary gains worshipping demons on their last legs struggling to survive.

[pathseeker9]

@NorthernDancer1111 Too many chips, too expensive , hehehee....

[DharmaDefender]

LOL pathseeker9, what on earth are you on about...!!!

[pathseeker9]

@DharmaDefender About " you'll be gettin chips implanted in yr right hand....caveat emptor. "

Hehe, simply too many people if they want to implement, and how are they going to implement it, hehe... Just a casual remark, don't take it too seriously, hehehe

[dragonthunder2010]

BILLIONS OF PEOPLE WILL WORSHIP DORJE SHUGDEN. CHINA will PROPAGATE the practice in their COUNTRY and eventually THE WORLD. WATCH HISTORY IN THE MAKING. It has already BEGUN. DORJE SHUGDEN THE PROTECTOR OF DHARMA WHOSE TIME HAS COME! Rejoice!!!

P.s: Dharma is for EVERYONE!

[Varavaken]

I can´t read the text.

[zamzam24388]

HHDL has allowed himself to be scrutinsed with a fine-toothed comb by the media and people concerning the Dorje Shugden issue.

Do you think that HHDL and Dorje Shugden are in cahoots? Well, whichever it may, it sure has garnered enough world wide interest and made DS famous. Very good marketing strategy.

[closerelative]

I believe that the photo with the Panchen Lama bearing a thangka of Dorje Shugden speaks loudly of the plans the Dalai Lama has for the Dharma to spread in China. There is far-reaching implications of how Panchen Lama being in China will be able to spread the Dharma through Dorje Shugden's practice far and wide.

[dragonthunder2010]

OH NO HE WILL HARM AND KILL YOU IF YOU PRACTICE OTHER SECT. RUBBISH! WHY? WELL Isn't HH still alive darlings? What happened to DS Harming him and all other schools are still teaching and spreading their tradition. Wonder What's the next excuse to justify the ban?

I LOVE THIS SITE dorjeshugden(dot)com where DS PRACTITIONERS CONGREGATE!

[dragonthunder2010]

YES IT's a DAMN OBVIOUS CONSPIRACY ALRIGHT! YOU KNOW WE'D BE THE FOOLS IN THE END IF WE THINK DALAI LAMA IS SO STUPID. C'MON WHICH LEADER IS SO STUPID TO DRAG THEIR NAME INTO THE MUD FOR A BAD NOT EVEN LOGICAL EXCUSE THAT DORJE SHUGDEN IS A SPIRIT!

[Sunny62Day]

It is a DIVINE conspiracy by the Buddhas to help promote Dharma in this world and to make Shugden practise grow, just like how it was supposed to be/ predicted to be as stated in the "Oracles & Demons of Tibet" book.

[KacheMarp0]

When all the criticism started, Kache Marpo once said that we would never be able to find the financial resources to propagate the DS throughout the world to an extent as it is happening now with the controversy. So he seemed quite happy about the publicity. So what do you think? Is it all a conspiracy?

[kokoliam59]

Whether you like it or not, they are still millions of DS practitioner in China now and growing. DS will be the king anyways. Since millions still believe in the great king, then with no doubt that this deity is definitely the protector!!!

[1985damaha]

do waterners really believe that dalai is a

buddha？hahha

[closerelative]

@1985damaha Well, if you are not a practitioner, it is fine to see him as just a normal person. However given the circumstances, he has achieved amazing things for just an ordinary monk and has single-handedly raised Buddhism from a cult-like status to a respectable status.

[TheRedNiece]

btw, I'm getting so sick of these silly "accusations" that just because you're a DS practitioner, you're working for China.

I for one don't even know anyone in China. There are so many pple around the world who practise DS who don't have anything to do with China! they just want to practise. Why is that such a hard thing to understand?

BTW, there's a gd discussion on the dorjeshugden ( dot) com forum about this very issue. Go read the logic behind WHY DS PRACTITIONERS AREN'T CHINESE SPIES!

[DharmaDefender]

It's just easy to accuse DS practitioners of being Chinese spies isn't it? Because anti-DS people can't come up with anything else. It's just easier to resort to personal insults.

Just look at the difference between the forums. On Phayul, all the DS people ever get is abuse and insults, and no evidence whatsoever that DS is a spirit. On dorjeshugden{DOT}com, there is debate, exchange of opinions, and friendly discussion even if people disagree with your opinion. So so different...

[Varavaken]

@DharmaDefender

Shugden leaders (like "Kundeling" and his followers) are working with the Chinese Government. It started 1999. Political traitors are your "heroes".

[DharmaDefender]

Besides, I'm not so sure what is wrong with being Chinese. Like everyone else (except for the tulkus!), the Chinese didn't choose what nationality they were going to be reborn as. Is it fair to penalise them, and use their nationality as an insult when they didn't choose it?

Simply because someone is Chinese doesn't mean they do not deserve to be happy!

So stupid using 'Chinese' as an insult! Or Communist for that matter! Personally, I like the idea of equality for all...and so does Buddhism!

[pathseeker9]

@DharmaDefender I agree with you totally. Beside, the people who harm the Tibetans or caused the Tibetans in exile are not the same people who are the young people of China today.

We cannot be RACIST!

[DharmaDefender]

Not just that, but today it is the Tibetans harming the Tibetans. It is the Tibetans ostracising members of their own community due to their religious practice. I read on dorjeshugden{DOT}com that one of the prophecies of the Tsangpa Oracle is that Tibet will not be free if her people cannot live in harmony; it is in-fighting that will damage the independence cause...so if Tibetans really want independence, why not just let DS practitioners be DS practitioners, and accept them for who they are?

[DharmaDefender]

If it's spirit practice, let them deal with their own karma...why create karma for yourself from ostracising them and from criticising DS lineage lamas? Did you know that from criticising those lamas, you create the causes to move further away from YOUR own lama (if not physically, then spiritually)? Just look at what happened to FPMT and Lama Osel...when they renounced Dorje Shugden practice, later Lama Osel left them.

[DharmaDefender]

I read about this on dorjeshugden{DOT}com...it's so sad that they lost their lama's reincarnation but you know what I immediately thought? Lama Yeshe was a great master, and I have no doubt that Lama Osel is too...and when the time is right, Lama Osel can quite easily pick up from where he left off in his previous life, resume his studies and leadership of FPMT. It's such a common story, that the reincarnations of highly attained being always seem to remember things very easily and quickly.

[DharmaDefender]

One last thing to add - my practice is my personal choice, and there's no way my practice can affect a matter which politicians should tend to (i.e. the cause of an independent Tibet). It's precisely why I think the TGIE are so ineffectual, because after decades they still cannot regain Tibet. They have the help of so many deities, and surely karma should be on their side now...I mean, they lost their country, isn't that purification enough?!

[DharmaDefender]

At the same time, look at East Timor for example, they didn't have protectors on their side and they're free! It's funny that despite the TGIE's inefficacy, they still choose to focus on suppressing DS rather than focus on getting their country back...they still choose to spend their GDP on suppressing DS, instead of ploughing it into schools, roads, hospitals, etc for Tibetans.

[DharmaDefender]

In fact, If I were the TGIE, I'd use some of the aid I get, to help Indians and Nepalese who so kindly host Tibetans in their countries, despite not being very well-off themselves and having their own problems.

Perhaps this DS hullabaloo is a distraction tactic by the TGIE over their failure to gain independence!

[Varavaken]

@pathseeker9

It´s the same oppressive regime.

And you are supporting it.

[TheRedNiece]

HAHAHA I like this: Bad Publicity is still Publicity!

Look at all the hollywood stars - they make billions of money by the "bad press" on them - their sex scandals, the drugs, the drinking etc.

The reason is that many people see the "publicity", become curious and are incited to find out more. That's human nature.

And so, the same is happening with DS now. How many more people are now searching DS on google & finding out about the practise? becos it's a "familiar" name all round d world now!

[thepurpleaster]

AMAZING! AMAZING!

Bad Publicity is still Publicity! In the end Dorje Shugden is getting more mainstream. Imagine if the China embraces Dorje Shugden, that is like a billion people practicing Dharma! What's so wrong about that?!

If the Panchen Lama are perfectly fine with other Lama's who are practicing Dorje Shugden, then why is there a problem for the Dalai Lama? Check out dorjeshugden(dot)com/wp/?p=205

[harrynephew]

there's always a dispute to which Panchen Lama is real and which isn't.

I've always have a belief that if the Buddhas are here to really help, their help is not constrained to only one individual.

in times of this controversy, indeed HHDL is using another powerful source of power (Panchen Lama) as a tool to enable him to promote something on a larger scale in China.

HHDL is so compassionate as to using himself, the Panchen Lama and his opponent power - China to spread the sacred Dharma of DS

[TheRedNiece]

How kind the Dalai Lama is to put himself through global scrutiny, go to court, be criticised. If we believe him to be Avalokiteshvara, then would Avalokiteshvara be SO STUPID to make this mistake? Or it is for the larger picture of bringing this practice to more people after all, this ban has brought more attention to Dorje Shugden than ANY OTHER PROTECTOR at this time. If Dalai Lama really wanted to stop the practice, then why is he drawing so much attention to it? THINK!

[vinayaholder]

dalai lama going against shugden just means all China will support it! And China is fast becoming THE world superpower. DIVINE PLAN or DIVINE FOLLY? You think...

[wisdombeing]

If you think the Dalai Lama is a Buddha, do you think he doesnt know that Shugden practice will spread to the 1.2 billion Chinese in China and then to the Chinese outside China... and other races and cultures outside of Asia?

Fascinating! (but quality of this video sucks anyone know where theres a clearer one I gave up half way!) jeez...

[NorthernDancer1111]

This Shugden is a malevolent spirit folks,,,,run fools run!!! Most will not comprehend the complexity of the level of deceit inherent in this issue as it is only during the last decade that it has been confirmed without doubt this spirit is harmful, deceitful and malevolent. Caveat Emptor. A pound of flesh to b extracted. LLHHDL!!!

[nostra120]

NDancer, wheres the proof? Proof he's not a spirit, DS was taught to HHDL by his guru H.H.Trijang Rinpoche. As HH Trijang Rinpoche is back again and is the only person on this planet the ban doesn't apply to means that DS is not as bad as HHDL says he is. Also the threat to HHDL life has been threatening for over 30 years already so that also doesn't add up. Have DS strong and people practising "religiously" all over China? or have China continue growing up led by a bunch of control freaks?

[AzerChristians]

Can anyone read the shit in this video???

[TheMightyGuri]

why bothering? its just bullshit

[matthewtyh]

FreeTibet Made In China.  Freed from centuries-old serfdom and slavery.

[1freeTibet1]

tibetwillbfree - silly!! China loves wt HHDL is doing - bannin of shugden. obviously the chinese will favor anything that the DL forbids...n a few not-so-intellegent ppl like you, believe that shugden ppl r chinese spies under their payroll..lol. people like you make the situation worse actually.

sincerely,

a true tibetan n a faithful shugden devotee :)

Free Tibet!!!

[harrybvr]

China has a long way to go before 'everything Chinese is valued, prized and desired'. Melamine, Sudan Red Dye, pesticides in the food, lead paint on its manufactured goods...the world is finding out that the bitterness of poor quality outlasts the sweetness of a cheap price! But you ARE RIGHT...the reason Shugden is spreading in China is because he is a wrathful deity, like CCP itself!

[lionheart3724]

Dorje Shugden practitioners (including HHDL) formed the mass of the purest of Buddhists in Tibet in the 20th Century. The other schools are or were also pure of course. The Shugden people were the backbone of the Gelug school. Now they have been smashed by a jealous and power hungry Dalai Lama.

When will he be satisfied by his persecution I wonder?

[nicolatwo]

Dorje Shugden is a deity. Dorje Yudronma is a deity as well.

[Akhutonpa]

Shugdenists are said to enjoy temporary success because he is an active and jealous god. But because it is not Buddha dharma to harm nonbelievers or use spiritual power to make money, Shugdenist lamas are said to have committed one ofthe cardinal sins--degenerating the dharma. Normally high lamas are said to die ina meditative posture, the body gets lighter and no foul odor of rotting corpse and the body remains upright and warm for days: Shugdenists are said to have died in the opposite way.

[21perusal]

What a lot of superstitious twaddle!

Dorje Shugden is a Dharma Protector. His job is to protect the Dharma practice of his faithful followers. That is why I have prayed to him for 30yrs because I am a Dharma practitioner of Je Tsongkhapa's tradition.

The result has been that all my good qualities have improved - faith, view, intention, discipline and wisdom. You are just following the superstitious view, the worldly view. Please stop slandering Duldzin, King of the Dharma.

[Akhutonpa]

Shugdenists opposed the 13th Dalai Lama's social reforms and closed down modern schools. Shugdenists scare followers into not studying other Buddhist viewpoints. Shugden lamas have placed guru worship over social welfare to help the poor and the needy. The Buddha called himself the Shower of the Path. Yet johnny come lately calls himself the King of Dharma? What balderdash! Minion of delusion sounds more like it? Voodooism is not Buddhism. The deathbed signs are real and hopefully will b utubed

[karmamic1]

i find it a great pity that people pertaining to be buddhist can demonstrate such an uncompassionate attitude to there fellows, one can only hope that political dogma will eventually subside and that true dharma will prevail.

[YAPONLUQ]

This kind of "internal troble" will favor China.

[bakergorden123]

This Panchen is found by the official processes, while Dalai's one is based on whatever processes that no one knows. And Dalai does not have the right to say who is the new Panchen because their holyness is the same. In the history, Dalai and Panchen did not have a good relaionship. So AoEHere, have a look history before actually say something. And how can Panchen's followers agree with the Panchen that Dalai said in 1995?

[AoEHere]

He is not Panchen Lama!!

The real Panchen Lama, was abducted by the Chinese state in May 1995 at the age of six and still missing!!

[dorjeshugdenrules]

Did all the high lamas for the last 350 years of the existence of the Dorje Shugden practice to get a salary from the Chinese govt to disturb the Tibetan communities in exile?? Isnt exile for just the last 40+ years??

Did they not practice Dorje Shugden for Spiritual reasons? Are they all wrong. Are they all mistaken? Can so many high lamas and lineage holders all be wrong. Can Dorje Shugden fool all of them?

[TIBETWILLBFREE]

The Chinese love Dorje Shugden - you must be stupid if you dont realise that the forces which put forward the phony son of a CCP official and pretend he is the panchen are the same forces which promote Shugden - the 5th Dalai Lama tried to ban Shugden practice as have the heads of all the major schools the shugden promoters are naieve western people and pro China forces who want to undermine tibetan culture its so sad how many are sucked into this negitive practice! wake up you people!

[hilleire]

The 5th Dalai Lama retracted his ban after he fell ill. He practiced D.S. until his death. The Chinese love D.S. because it creates a deeper schism within the Buddhist community. This schism (which is breaking a Bodhisattva Vow) was created only by the Dali Lama. He is creating his own lineage separate from his lineage Gurus. If you say the practice is negative then your Gelug lineage has been destroyed. It is not up to one Lama to decide what is practiced it is the blessing of the lineage Gurus

[TIBETWILLBFREE]

All the great teachers have spoken against Dorje shugden the heads of all the major schools are not supporting this practice it has been promoted by a lama in the UK who has made many false claims about his training and been rejected by his own root guru the supporters in UK are all misguided white people it was so sad the see them all abusing HH - Buddhism is a wonderful religion its sad that so many people get attracted to its worst elelments

[hilleire]

Other teachers have spoken against this practice because of the ban by the H.H. Many of the old Tibetan teachers including HH practiced the Protector. It has not been promoted by G.K.G., it is the lineage from his root Guru! He is not inventing a new lineage like the Dalai Lama. Trijang did not reject G.K.G whatsoever. At the request of Lama Yeshe and then Trijang Rinpoche, Geshe Kelsang was sent to England. You say "white people", you should not discriminate against mother sentient beings

[TIBETWILLBFREE]

when I saw a big row of white people screaming at Tibetans who are there to welcome HHin London I feel sad for the dharma and sad for the people who think creating this kind is abusive disturbance is valid - The Chinese love your work as it helps with their agenda of destroying Tibetan culture

[dorjeshugdenrules]

Did following high lamas who are great devotees of Dorje Shugden practice for a salary from china also?? HH Kyabje Serkong Dorje Chang, Regent of Tibet Taktra Rinpoche, HE Domo Geshe Rinpoche, HE Kyabje Zong Rinpoche,HH Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche, Sakyapa Kunkhyen Ngawang Kungo Lodro, His Holiness the 9th and 10th Panchen lama of Tibet, Lama Yeshe,Kyabje Rato Rinpoche, Kyabje Kensur Lati Rinpoche,Sera Kensur Ngawang Thekchok..etc etc. Are all these great lamas on China's payroll also?

[dorjeshugdenrules]

Why does Tibetan Govt twist the situation and say that Dorje Shugden practitioners are connected with China. That China is paying them to create disturbances within the Tibetan community. Did the Chinese Govt pay H.H. Trijang Rinpoche a salary to create disturbances?? This practice has been active and sacred for over 350 years, none of the practitioners engaged in this practice in relations to China ever. Why suddenly this excuse is made to supress the practice?

[Tendagami]

Why did Gangchen Rinpoche of Italy went to China to recognize Chinese Panchen Lama when no one in Tibet give damn to Chinese Panchen lama except for Beijing

[lookwithin2007]

The state oracle Nechung was and is consulted for all Tibetan Govt decisions by Dalai Lama. The loss of Tibet in 1959 was on Nechung's 'watch'. Currently the regaining of Tibet is under Nechung also since Dalai Lama consults him, so shouldnt Tibetan loss of sovereignty be blamed on nechung and not Dorje Shugden. After all Dorje Shugden was never consulted before 1959 or after for it's state affairs. If nechung cannot advise correctly, why does Shugden have to be the scapegoat?? Think carefully.

[lookwithin2007]

The ban the Tibetan Govt has on Dorje Shugden is making him bigger in the world. Ironically, if they want to slow his practice down, they must lift the ban. Chinese govt backed up by 1.2 billion citizens is promoting the practice vehemently. For whatever reasons, doesnt matter, the fact is that they are promoting. It all started because Tibetan Govt said the practice should be stopped. So it can only get bigger and now backed up by Tibet's 2nd highest lama, the panchen rinpoche.

[lookwithin2007]

This picture with Dorje Shugden behind Panchen Lama is very significant. It has nothing to do with Panchen Lama, as he is currently being used as a pawn to control Tibetans. But the fact is that he will proliferate the Dorje Shugden practice to the 1.2 billion Chinese that do not think he is a pawn. From that many Chinese, the practice will reach to many corners of the globe. Just think, all this arose due to Dalai Lama's so called ban on Shugden practice, in fact he is directly making it big!!

[lookwithin2007]

Can you imagine that China is fully backing the Dorje Shugden practice. Prior to Dalai Lama speaking about Dorje Shugden so publicly, China could care less. Now China, even being socialist and purportedly against religion is actually promoting Dorje Shugden to their own ppl, to the Tibetans and eventually the world. This is all thanks to the Dalai Lama. After the dalai Lama passes away, there'll be no one strong enough to say anything, so it will continue to grow bigger and bigger.

[lookwithin2007]

This is an incredible picture of the China Sanctioned Panchen Lama with a thangka of Dorje Shugden as his backdrop.Wow!That is a powerful message the Chinese Govt is sending to the world. Just think,the more the Dalai Lama bans the practice of Dorje Shugden, the more China will promote it. Who will 'win' in the end? The Govt of China backed up by 1.2 billion Chinese or The Dalai Lama? If we think, Dalai Lama is really bringing Dorje Shugden to global high profile and China promoting it. Wow!!