Crank your amp: how power tube saturation affect tone and dynamics

[zaviere]

very informative video. thanks,

[rafport]

@zaviere thank you for nice comment

[GregoryJohnsonJr]

the guitar store in town has a few new ones for 399. i may go buy one. i have an Epiphone Socal50 but id like to have this so i dont have to lug my half stack around i really like it.

[rafport]

@GregoryJohnsonJr the socal is a very nice head, this one is sweeter and bluesier (if you crank, if not is crystal clean one of better cleans i ever eard) but for rock and heavier tones, maybe socal50 is much better. speaker and brand are same, but tone is quite different

[waytooslow]

@GregoryJohnsonJr - dang that is a killer deal - - where???

[waytooslow]

@rafport sorry 

[ersemola]

friends i need help..wich sound can give an el84 compated to el34?? thx!

[rafport]

@ersemola they're totally different tubes. EL34 are powerful and bigger respect EL84. EL34 are mid oriented, typical of several Marshall heads. EL84 are smaller and saturate easily and in a gradual way, and generate lots of overtones. It really depends from the amp too obviously. Usually you can find in very different products and in different numbers (single tube amp with EL84 are 4-5w with EL34 10-15w for example)

[ersemola]

@rafport ok thx for the info.. i have peavey classic 50 50 el84, what do you think about this power amp?

[rafport]

@ersemola i never tried your amp, i tried a classic 30 that should be similar in a guitar shop. I can't turn high the volume and at very low volume played nice on clean but not so nice on the lead channel. Anyway it is difficult understand an amp at so low volume so this is not a review. You are satisfied on your amp? I seek for your amp specs, i don't find speaker but i've spend some time with a Peavey Blue Marvel speaker in the past. You can think about work on this side for improvements

[Guppy915]

I love the sound of these Epiphone Amps. I got a Valve Jr., it's real nice, I use a Dr. Z Brake Lite and a Ibanez Tubescreamer, and it rocks like AC/DC stuff. Put in my guitar with active EMG's and it rules, best tone I have ever found. I like this Blues Custom, thinking about getting one foe more headroom in sound.

[rafport]

@Guppy915 my bro own a blues senior, a very nice head despite the incredible low price

[juanpa1979X]

this one does not goes to 11??? LOL

[rafport]

@juanpa1979X :) you know van halen use a variac to overwhelm the tube power much over their limit right? so he can run the amp at 20 :P

saturation is carring more power than it should, now is more controlled but is a natural expression when hardware is pushing to their limit (more than exagerate gain stage in preamp)

[juanpa1979X]

@rafport van halen went to 20? oh my god I did't know that! I was just kidding with the Spinal Tap joke :P thanks for the tip! :D

[TheGlucksOfficial]

Being honest this was the vid making me want to search this amp out. Have had one for about half a year now. Have peaked into its guts.. This is one hell of an amp man.. for this price, it's ridiculous. It has given me tons of great sounds and is built like a tank. only issue being: the speakers are wired out of phase, is this stock?

just want to say thanks ; )

[rafport]

@TheGlucksOfficial thank you for kind words. it is a great amp, despite for their price... if it was double or triple of costs, it remains a great amp. my speaker was wired normally, your speaker are out of phase one respect to the second? this is for sure an error assemblying, the waveform trend to be annihilated in this way

[kdyt6]

So the only thing you're increasing is the master volume, no gain is being added throughout the video?

[rafport]

@kdyt6 no, i just increase the volume of clean channel (this amp miss the master volume and this usually give a better power tube overdrive). So most of saturation (not all) is from the power tube stage. The amp was attenuated, so it miss the speaker distortion which can improve and contribute to the typical tube tone as well. Consider any amp saturate in power stage in different way, not all pleasant (especially modern tube amp)

[LukeSniper]

Great vid!

I was trying to explain the difference between preamp distortion and power tube saturation to somebody, and I didn't have the capability of just showing them. Your vid showed exactly what I would have done. It was perfect.

[rafport]

@LukeSniper Thanks :) It was a my study because i read and eard lot about this argument, but in practics is not easy distinguish (and people use 100w head at 1/18 of their wattage so they dont know what power tube saturation is) so i needed to try for myself. I hope this can be helpful, way of saturate on an amp is one of more important things about tone but in the shop you cant crank and can be a sad surprise (not all tube amp play nice cranked, some will broke if you crank seriously!)

[bsabbath55]

Nice vid, I love these amps and power tube saturation makes me feel funny in the pants.

[rafport]

@bsabbath55 ahah thanks

[delosss]

great video man...!!!

[rafport]

@delosss thank you for apreciating :)

[cjdavda]

you can tell he's using fingers!

[rafport]

@cjdavda thanks!

[maxigoodvibes]

Thanks for this video...

Do you turn down your guitar volume each time you turn up the amp volume???

When the amp volume is really high, how do you keep a low sound?

[rafport]

@maxigoodvibes the amp was connected to a power attenuator, so i can reduce volume depending on power used leaving the tone almost costant. consider that usually a tube amp increase seriously volume almost in the first half of knob, after that an increase in volume has little increase in volume and an heavy increase in power tube saturation

[rafport]

@KJGordon05 i dont' remember, i've the stock one for rectifier. i'm using electro harmonix 6l6 power tube, i change the stock one because was quite microphonic after a year of use (the stock one... sovtek... im not sure i changed time ago!)

[SrGreeneyed]

Great video, very helpful!

[rafport]

@SrGreeneyed thank you!

[Taygoo15]

this isnt all power tube distortion. The single volume knobs distort the pre amp too

[rafport]

@Taygoo15 it is on the clean channel, distortion on this stage is very few on this amp (even on the lead channel, tone is quite clean on gain to midnight with an addedd preamp tube, imagine in the clean one...). and power tube saturation is quite distinctive from preamp. most of tone here come from 6l6 cranked

[Taygoo15]

@rafport ok that makes sense thanks

[jinma2]

Dude i got this amp, and its cool but god i live in an apartment, and its so fucking loud.. To get it to sond good you need to crank it up and i cant even play it, till i get an attenuator, what a about a THD, hot plate? I dont know what size to get, this is my first tube amp, please help?

[rafport]

@jinma2 yes it is very loud! there are a lot of different attenuator of various prices, hot plate should be ok or anything else, mini mass for example. it would be better an attenuator with impedance selector, so you can use on other amp or on other cabs. if you can solder you can think about built for yourself, saving a lot of money (attenuator are expensive), there are kits and step to step guide on the web

[chincheto]

Very informative. Great demo.

[rafport]

@chincheto thank you

[betogudino]

Hey friend, I have the exact same amp, do you recomend any specific brand or type of atenuation device?? is there any settings you recommend for the atenuation device? Nice playing!

[rafport]

@betogudino this new youtube is quite strange, i spend some time for catch your comment, i prefer for sure old version :) there are a lot of attenuator, i try just few. degrading of signal is usually connected about how much you need to suck power, so i fear you can never have room volume with a powerful amp mantain the tone. the blues custom with max attenuation in 15w is quite loud, with my attenuator. i build from a tubetown kit, cheap and very effectrive. price of

[rafport]

attenuators are steal! costs sometime more than the amp!! :D components cost 1/10 or less than a price of an expensive attenuator (this can be true for a lot of musical stuff, but attenuators really costs too much for his value). l-pads are very cheap and not so bad, absolutely easy to build, suck a lot of highs but are quite decent if you wont exagerate in attenuation. mine is resistive, play very good but has a max attenuation who is not extreme. seek for one with ohm selector

[delfo7]

saturation forever.

[rafport]

forever ;)

[TruckyNiggets]

One of the best guitar/amp vids I have seen in a long time. Sweet tone, bro.

[rafport]

@TruckyNiggets thank you for your words :)

[trevinor3]

amen!

[Obelix5150]

Man, epiphone gets such a bad rap since all they're known for is copying Gibson. their archtop guitars are awesome, and the les paul classic (made in korea) is a quality instrument.

[GuillermoSmyser]

@Obelix5150 I agree. I actually prefer the feel of the epiphone les paul neck to the gibson.  And with some new pickups it sounds better to me and for my style than a Gibson.

[Obelix5150]

Yeah, guitars aren't all identical, even within the same series of same brand of guitar. I play Les Paul Classics, a Goldtop from 2002 made in korea, and a black beauty styled one. The GoldTop feels as comfortable as a gibson, but the black beauty is a little awkward. Also epi's pickups are horrible. I put in '57 classic/'57 classic pluses and now it sounds awesome.

[cibrao]

Great demo. I've got one myself and the minus part has to be some lack of wideness in terms of eq. As for the weight issue it does break my back when i'm on the road!

[rafport]

mine works fine and has a great response to all range, from deep bass from highs and overtones frequencies. i'm satisfied from eq section too, work better than some other eq in much expensive amps i got. a great strenght is needed for transport :)

[StangLX718]

Do you gig with this? I heard it is crazy heavy. Sounds great though.

[rafport]

yes it is heavy... like any tube amp with 2x12 speaker (who is several kilograms each). you need some aid or very strong arms :)

[callthemall]

so I have a Traynor YCV 40 tube amp, so is it safe for the amp (speaker mainly) to run it at 10?

[rafport]

it is an hard question, it really depends. some amp play wonderfully at 10, others one are going to fuse transformer or damage something (vintage style amp and easy circuitation or hand wiring are usually more resistent than modern amps "full of knobs"). some speaker are resistent than others, greenback or alnico blue broke easily and vintage 30 are quite hard to broke for example. you should notice before broke earing the tone of the speaker, but can be difficult with a group.

[callthemall]

Ok, the YCV 40 has two separate channels, with (gain), volume, treble, mid, and bass for the separate channels. I've mainly been using the gain channel, with the gain up to just where it distorts... I've been experimenting with the clean channel, trying to push it into distortion, which is past 5, and really loud... I just don't want to break anything to get distortion out of the clean channel.

[rafport]

it is very important to know if amp has a master volume (one for both channel) or miss, it is usually much better if miss this feature for crank the power stage. if at 5 it start to crank, your volume should not increase much more turning more the volume, you should get more ditortion with almost same volume (try and verify) so for speaker risk is almost same at 6 or at 10 if just increase distortion. you can attenuate a bit the volume with a power attenuator, i'm using one on this video

[callthemall]

The amp doesn't have a Master volume, and I'll try the volume at 10 sometime then, Thank you very much for your time.

[rafport]

i'm here, happy to be useful :) let me know hot it play cranked

[callthemall]

It played nicely, I have a couple videos of it, except the camera couldn't fully handle the sound.

[GuitarGerwin]

hello there! I have this amp to and did you do any tube swapping or other mods on this amp?

[rafport]

i just change power tubes as i consumed the original ones, i put electro harmonix 6l6. no other change :)

[GuitarGerwin]

@rafport OKay thank you for the quick response!!

[FingerLickinGravy67]

this thing will have more compression then other amps too cuz it has a tube rectifire

[NickoLps]

yeah,cool amp

nice sample

[EuphorbusBTB]

jesus' this was a boring 5 minutes

[alohastewie]

how big of a gig can this thing stand up to un-miced on the 30 watt settin?

[rafport]

it is very loud, i guess enough loud for most of uses

[alohastewie]

wow that was the fastest reply i have ever seen! cool beans, anyway thx man and right on with the whole power tube saturationy goodness, it really is the only way to get THE tone

[rafport]

i'm one of the fastest guitarist in all over the world... in replying messages ;)

almost all tone is in power tubes, so amp should be eard like this. is quite easy find the quailty (or missing of quality) of an amp when cranked. at low volume, results can be very confusing and unrealistic

[mukkezz]

But does it stay clean than? Or does it start to break up very soon at the clean channel?

[rafport]

@mukkezz it start to crank the final stage aroun 4 o clock of the clean, like most of fender and vintage amps

[mukkezz]

Allright thanks for your fast repley ;)

[rafport]

i'm here :) happy to be useful!

[gorillagorilla13]

hey great tone man! i have a blues custom 30 myself and i love it but I have a couple questions for you. Is yours stock? did you change speakers or tubes? also, what settings do you have the amp set to? I've found that the BC30 gets a little ice-picky if you don't turn down the mids

[rafport]

my amp is all stock, i just changed power tubes because the original one was old (i used a lot) with 6l6 eh, tone is almost identical. if you had icepick i guess you're using single coils (strat ot teles?). i use almost all to midnight, highs little lower and bass little higher, you can see in video too. if you crank volume, icepickings and too high headroom trend to plain anyway :) i use ever in class A mode. thank you for compliment for the tone :)

[nmcclure79]

Can you play a very loud clean tone also or does it always distort a little?

[rafport]

any tube amp when heavily cranked distort, it is tube nature. how it does depends on amp. consider who you need lot of wattage to have very clean amp and loud volume (so you can avoid to crank it)

[messermithz]

RAFPORT, what do you prefeer, epiphone or peavey windsor?

[rafport]

no match really, the blues custom is some thousend time better than windsor :) the first is one of the better amp i ever tried (and i tried several of any price) the other just a nice amp for this price.

[Obelix5150]

I'd say it depends on style. If you play heavier music (from 70s hard rock to classic metal) then the windsor. the epiphone is great for blues and clean though. Keep in mind that the windsor is 100 watts, so you won' be able to get power tube saturation in most instances w/o an attenuator.

[kantefier]

Cool review! Thanks a lot, man :)

Nice playing, by the way

[rafport]

thank you for visit me :)

[12345678ix]

great tone

[rafport]

thank you

[TanzanianPeaberry]

Fantastic review and demo!

[rafport]

thank you my friend :)

[bloodySunday77]

I also had this amp. I liked it a lot. Anyway, when you're on a clean channel of an amp (any amp), you never get your satruration only from the power stage. There is always at least one preamp tube involved in this, and in some cases maybe more. You need to make this correction in the video description.

Also, the richness and warmth of a tube amp are just fine even if you're only using preamp saturation, as you say... Great playing and sound, by the way!

[rafport]

i like a lot saturation on power stage, in many amp i avoid to distort the preamp (i have some single channel amp) and use just power tubes and some external overdrive. anyone has his taste on guitar :)

thank you for kind words anyway!

[bloodySunday77]

Υοu're welcome, I wouldn't write them if I didn't believe them!

About the saturation: that's what I am trying to say to you, there is absolutely no possible way that the preamp won't get distorted, no matter if you're using the clean channel on a multichannel amp or even if you have a single channel amp. The signal always goes through at least one preamp tube (usually the one at V1), and this distorts at high volumes as well. Try a different preamp tube at V1 and you'll realise it.

[bloodySunday77]

("different" meaning a lower gain type)

[rafport]

saturation is present in tubes in his own nature, depending on signal strenght and circuit design. but you can get saturation in different ways depending on gear you use, and every stage has is own differenct effect and different contiribution in tone, compression and dynamic. as i build some of amp i use, i've quite an idea on how it works... i like a minimal staturation on preamp, with a simplier preamp circuit with no drive/gain tube, and an heavy driven power stage. is just a matter of taste

[ManshedTV]

Bar none, the best demo for this amp I have seen since looking into purchasing one. Thank you,

[rafport]

thank you for kind words :) it is a very good buy in my opinion

[mikkowood]

The sound is haunting me ! i need to know more about the sound! i love the clean sound, but i play more like rock with blues riffs, and i would like to hear more crunch! i was wondering if this amp takes feedback without any pedals?

[rafport]

no, has not enough saturation by himself to feedback without pedals to drive in. almost any vintage style amp did like that. it is more saturation on power stage tube than pre, here (without cranking you cant obtain hi gain with just channel 2 pre). with an overdrive or a distortion pedal, you can easily obtain hard rock tone (you need to crank anyway to ear his real tone)

[JolliQ]

Great video!

[efunkelist]

This is indeed a very good demonstration about "the thing about tube-amps"

[rafport]

thanks :)

[domdabombabc]

I was surprised to hear that good of a tone coming from an Epiphone.

[rafport]

it is always unuseful think in instruments by brand... you should try with an open mind, without think about price or name. this amp is great, some epi guitar are great, some good and some quite terrible. but not for the brand. there are good and poor stuff from any brand of any price, some are better than other but is in any case a guarantee... is not the write who does the tone :) and is neither coulur, pearl keyboard, finishing... better using just ears and finger to judge :)

[plpicher]

agreed

I don't think that epi isnt good

its ok. but you need to try lots of thing to find the right one for you

but what i think is that epi sell stuff at expensive prices but its not as good as the price

i think that for most of the epi stuff its too expensive for the quality that you get

[rafport]

you should not think by brands, epiphone make 2-3000 dollars jazz guitars user by greatest guitarists and 200 dollars clone of les paus. fashon is guided by brands :) just try and use the ears, without reading brands and reading prices. there are a lot of surprise, starting for this amp that really is one of best sounding i ever tried at a very affordable price

[mikkowood]

Amazing blues sounds, especially on the clean channel ! Awesome playing, seriously well done. I just want to ask one thing.

I play in a band and im looking for a good blues tube amp, and i fell in love with this amp, but i was wondering if it is loud enough to play live concerts.

thank you.

[rafport]

thank you for the complments :) i can assure this amp is loud, and is a great sounding tube amp (the price is low too, but dont consider it... is a great amp and stop, not great for his price! great respect any price blues amp). cranked, from 4 in volume knob, become alive. the only problem is the weight, 2x12" cab and tube amp is HEAVY. but you can't obtain this tone with a smaller cab. it is a great buy

[asianaxeman]

one of the few good videos about power amp saturation- well done mate

[rafport]

thank you :)

[DAVESCOUNTRYSONGS]

Im buying one now that sound like a blues amp, great demo man hope youe getting paid from Epipehone as your demo helped to make my mind up, cheers Dave

[rafport]

ah ah ah very good, but i doubt Epiphone would give me a buck or just a pick to show their amp :D i just did because it is a great amp, and i'm "fighting" for musicians to be less posers, as they seek for brand, for special edition and for all sort of expensive stuff like showgirls. musical instruments are supposed to play good, not to have a fashon brand on it... use fingers and ears. i dont like some epiphone guitars, but this amp rock!

[animalboy71]

I just got an Epiphone Blues Custom 30. I played Marshall half stack all my life but I'm tired of lugging around the huge amp. The Blues 30 sounds great & the dynamics you can do with just your picking, like you show in the video, are great.

I've been having a few problems with the reverb chamber & have read that this is common & easy to fix. Has any one else had the reverb problem? It just turns off on me sometimes.

I paid $600.00 Canadian. Your playing is fantastic Thanks for the video!!!

[rafport]

thank you :) i'm happy you're satisfied about this amp, for me is one of best i've played. i dont know how much are your price in canada, here i payed less than an half than a similiar fender amp that it seem really nosense (here people buy instruments reading brands... maybe not just here).

to be honest i had a problem in reverb after some months :) for me it was just the reverb tube broken. you should open back and check your preamp tubes. tell me better the problem and we'll find a solution

[gazzaboy2531977]

dont attenuators fuck your valves quicker?

[rafport]

mmmmmm no. attenuators just reduce volume, dont affect other. valves consume quicker just because instead use volume at 1 or 2 you use seriously your amp. if your amp is a crap maybe something will damage, but not for attenuator but just because is not thinked to be used at serious volume. well made amps will work without problem... i never had problem with any of my amps with attenuators

[ruffles272]

not if its a powersoaker

[carlosayalapaz]

Excellent video!!

I play on fender blues deluxe reissue and can buy an attenuator. Is too loud

witch attenuator suggest?

This self made power attenuator?

How made this device?

[rafport]

thank you :) i suggest attenuator in any case, you lost some high frequencies (but if attenuation is not extreme, loss is quite small) but you gain a great increase in responsiveness of power tube. the one i use is a self made, i buy the kit on tube town online shop and i make the attenuator to myself. there are several on market, but they're exagerated in price... mine cost with shipping a reasonable price and work very well. it depends also on watts, big amps and heads are harder to attenuate

[jp6l6]

My opinion about that great amp is it 's an excellent base to reproduce a more modern and featuring two channels Marshall Bluesbreaker at a low cost. I'm sure it is technically possible and musically interesting.

[rafport]

this amp is great, and has a sweet voicing speakers, first class reverb. is not just as godd for their price, is one of my favourite of any price. to have a bluesbreaker tone i see somewhere about some mod for change power tubes (mine are 6l6, i read others has 5881: i try both and prefer 6l6 here). kt66 should play different even if the epi can be use in same class (A but has got A/B too). for sure break up in a real sexy way ;)

[eyevybe21]

Very well done. I was just considering pulling out some old 7 watt tube amps for cranking purposes. best demo I've seen in a while. Thanks

[rafport]

it is a great idea. i've used several low wattage single power tube amps, and some cranked are gorgeus (listen my ac4 video, the sounds is beautiful and it has just a el84 power tube). it's much better a small amp cranked than a big one, to improve touch and dynamic of the instrument

[philphie]

have you got this on A or AB?

[rafport]

i'm in 15w class A mode, it is too loud even on this way with attenuator (and is not good exceed in attenuation in general). unfortunately i've very old tubes, i should change them soon, so i expect the sounds will improve more