I feel like I've just been transported to the 1900's, as if women need to be told to learn. This dude needs to be told that women have been in education for a while now under secular law. Damn, religion is slow.
@carm95: submissive does not mean inferior. Help-meet does not mean inferior. Equality does not equal sameness, the Bible teaches equality but different roles.
@swartzbryan The problem with view is that Paul taught that women were inferior. 1 Tim 2: 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. I don't know where MD gets this "equality but different roles" stuff. It certainly is not in Paul's writings.
@SamWiseGingy I don't see how that verse portrays women as being inferior in the least, when combined with the rest of Scripture. The fact that Eve was deceived highlights Paul's point that man was created first to be the leader. But Genesis tells us that both were created in the image of God, and I Peter 3:7 calls women 'fellow heirs of the grace of life'. God called Eve a helper suitable for Adam ... he could have created another man if that would have been better
Part 2: Then you have 1st Corinthians 11 where Paul says men are in the image of God and women are in the image of man.
2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
@swartzbryan Part 1: Okay men and women are "equals," then why doesn't Genesis say and God made Eve equal to Adam? If men and women are equal and that's what Paul actually meant to say then why does he bring up the fact that Eve was deceived and that she was made after man.
@SamWiseGingy I Cor. 11 does not say anything about image-bearers. It's talking about the chain of authority, it uses the term head not image of as your quote relates. Genesis: 1:27 "male and female he created them" seems to me to be saying just that. Re: Paul in I Timothy: v. 12 states he is talking about teaching/authority in the church. The creation order/deception is stated afterwards as the reason for this.
@SamWiseGingy The best way I know to think about it is this: the only overt statement about worth/value is being made in the image of God in Genesis. The others discuss roles, not worth, as each gender is uniquely gifted for different things. Whether you agree or not, go in peace
@swartzbryan So let's see your god put women under men in the "chain of authority" because they are equal. I think your brain is a pretzel. Please tell me why is it that many of the very conservative Christians (See this video - John MacArthur - I do not Allow a Woman to Teach... (1Timothy 2:12-15)) until that last fifty years or so with the rise of "feminism?"
The modern new-age Christian interpretation of the Bible is that men and women were created equal. Unbeknownst to many Christians this is a relatively recent development that was influenced by the feminist movement no the Bible. For centuries it was taught that women were created by God as an inferior "help-meet" and many verses reinforce this. There is only one verse in the Bible new-agey Christians love to cite that say men and women are equal. The rest say women are submissive inferiors.
Are women inferior to men. According to Paul they are. I Timothy:1:11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
@NexusCapital If you follow my threads you will see that evidence based answers are very seldom provided. What is typically provided is proclamations, threats, and anecdotes that have no way of being confirmed. These type of anecdotes are in no way unique to Christianity. But I keep looking for a rational believer. Perhaps someday I will find one.
No he does not endorse women elders. He endorses women to teach other women, serve as deconesses, help the church with her gifts. Not the same as being an elder.
This is the same thing Jesus was saying when he told Martha that Mary had chosen a good thing (Mary was sitting at Jesus' feet, he was probably teaching, so she was in the mindset of a student.In those days the men would 'sit at the feet of' a teacher, but not the women. They would go cook and stuff) Deaconesses were in the Bible serving in the early church. Phoebe was a deaconess, as were several others mentioned in the Bible. I would think Pastor Mark would endorse anything the Bible endorses.
I feel like I've just been transported to the 1900's, as if women need to be told to learn. This dude needs to be told that women have been in education for a while now under secular law. Damn, religion is slow.
TheAtheistFuture 2 weeks ago
@carm95: submissive does not mean inferior. Help-meet does not mean inferior. Equality does not equal sameness, the Bible teaches equality but different roles.
swartzbryan 2 weeks ago
@swartzbryan The problem with view is that Paul taught that women were inferior. 1 Tim 2: 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. I don't know where MD gets this "equality but different roles" stuff. It certainly is not in Paul's writings.
SamWiseGingy 2 weeks ago
@SamWiseGingy I don't see how that verse portrays women as being inferior in the least, when combined with the rest of Scripture. The fact that Eve was deceived highlights Paul's point that man was created first to be the leader. But Genesis tells us that both were created in the image of God, and I Peter 3:7 calls women 'fellow heirs of the grace of life'. God called Eve a helper suitable for Adam ... he could have created another man if that would have been better
swartzbryan 2 weeks ago
@swartzbryan
Part 2: Then you have 1st Corinthians 11 where Paul says men are in the image of God and women are in the image of man.
2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
SamWiseGingy 2 weeks ago
@swartzbryan Part 1: Okay men and women are "equals," then why doesn't Genesis say and God made Eve equal to Adam? If men and women are equal and that's what Paul actually meant to say then why does he bring up the fact that Eve was deceived and that she was made after man.
SamWiseGingy 2 weeks ago
@SamWiseGingy I Cor. 11 does not say anything about image-bearers. It's talking about the chain of authority, it uses the term head not image of as your quote relates. Genesis: 1:27 "male and female he created them" seems to me to be saying just that. Re: Paul in I Timothy: v. 12 states he is talking about teaching/authority in the church. The creation order/deception is stated afterwards as the reason for this.
swartzbryan 2 weeks ago
@SamWiseGingy The best way I know to think about it is this: the only overt statement about worth/value is being made in the image of God in Genesis. The others discuss roles, not worth, as each gender is uniquely gifted for different things. Whether you agree or not, go in peace
swartzbryan 2 weeks ago
@swartzbryan So let's see your god put women under men in the "chain of authority" because they are equal. I think your brain is a pretzel. Please tell me why is it that many of the very conservative Christians (See this video - John MacArthur - I do not Allow a Woman to Teach... (1Timothy 2:12-15)) until that last fifty years or so with the rise of "feminism?"
SamWiseGingy 2 weeks ago
The modern new-age Christian interpretation of the Bible is that men and women were created equal. Unbeknownst to many Christians this is a relatively recent development that was influenced by the feminist movement no the Bible. For centuries it was taught that women were created by God as an inferior "help-meet" and many verses reinforce this. There is only one verse in the Bible new-agey Christians love to cite that say men and women are equal. The rest say women are submissive inferiors.
carlsm95 3 weeks ago
Are women inferior to men. According to Paul they are. I Timothy:1:11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
SamWiseGingy 1 month ago
@SamWiseGingy I hope someone answers your question, because Im curious as well.
NexusCapital 2 weeks ago
@NexusCapital If you follow my threads you will see that evidence based answers are very seldom provided. What is typically provided is proclamations, threats, and anecdotes that have no way of being confirmed. These type of anecdotes are in no way unique to Christianity. But I keep looking for a rational believer. Perhaps someday I will find one.
SamWiseGingy 2 weeks ago
I couldn't agree more @wateroflife27
spettee 1 month ago
We must all come together and serve as one in the Body of Christ ! :)
WatersofLife27 2 months ago 3
@WatersofLife27 Sounds kinky.
SeedsOfHatred 3 weeks ago
@adrumos blessings :-)
redrocklove 2 months ago
No he does not endorse women elders. He endorses women to teach other women, serve as deconesses, help the church with her gifts. Not the same as being an elder.
redrocklove 2 months ago
@redrocklove Thanks for clarifying. This is what I thought. There was just one line in this clip that could have been taking to mean that he did.
adrumos 2 months ago
This is the same thing Jesus was saying when he told Martha that Mary had chosen a good thing (Mary was sitting at Jesus' feet, he was probably teaching, so she was in the mindset of a student.In those days the men would 'sit at the feet of' a teacher, but not the women. They would go cook and stuff) Deaconesses were in the Bible serving in the early church. Phoebe was a deaconess, as were several others mentioned in the Bible. I would think Pastor Mark would endorse anything the Bible endorses.
mrspogadaeus 2 months ago 3
Pastor Marc, it sounds like you are endorsing women elders. Is this true?
adrumos 2 months ago
@adrumos Pastor Mark, it sounds like you are calling the men of this generation a bunch of sissy girls. Is this true?
whatsiteverwas 2 months ago
@whatsiteverwas Well, I think that is clearly true. But was your comment directed at me or Pastor Mark?
adrumos 2 months ago
@adrumos Well, I think wallpaper is clearly false. All comments should directed towards the main server.
whatsiteverwas 2 months ago
Comment removed
StephanieKay416 2 months ago
@StephanieKay416 here is your punctuation, guy do you like apples
whatsiteverwas 2 months ago