I carry a .357, must of the time I'm carrying .38 special +p rounds in it. Just for the one handed times you talk about. I agree on the "knock Down" theory. You have some Good information in your videos.
In my opinion we have been killing people with .38spl, 9mm, .45acp for years. I feel with .38spl, .357 magnum, if you like big bore in a revolver .44spl, for pistols 9mm, .40cal, .45acp with one of these you will be fine. Again my opinion if you are the law abiding citizen just going about your daily business for your personal protection a 9mm is just fine.
Let me first off say I carry a 9mm, and its marksmanship and tactics that win gunfights not the larger bullet. You must hit what you are shooting at in order to solve your immendiate problem and reduce your liablilty. Not hitting what you are shooting puts innocent people at risk. Bigger bullets will track better in the body. If I am shooting a 124gr 9mm and you are shooting a 230gr .45acp your putting 50% more bullet down range than me. This is not an attack on Brain47374 its FYI.
I see so much controversy over calibers.... different agencies using different guns...
I appreciate your answer sir... I will be breaking out my Glock 26 with a 15 round mag for my personal carry...Thank you... You are doing a great job in your videos... All the best of luck to you...
I see your point... I don't want to disagree with you, but why have the FBI,
U.S. Marshals, and recently most police forces have switched from the 9mm and now use the Glock S&W 40 cal, which in effect have 2 rounds less in the mags than the 9mm?
@TampaCary The question is, does the .40 have the power to knock someone down? No. Is it "more effective", I don't think so. Why hasn't the Military switched over to .40 cal? Actually, our PD switched to .45's. There is not a lot of difference in a 9mm and a .40 cal. Bottom line is this really and this is what people miss... You are unlikely to immediately neutralize the threat with a handgun in a life or death confrontation.
@brian47374 You have evaded my question rather nicely...Sadly our military is using the NATO 9mm in support of Europe with the Italian Barretta, even tho our troops admit that the 9mm Barretta is a joke as far as reliability. I do not know your police department, but I have a good deal of trust in our FBI and U.S. Marshall's Service. So I ask you again, if the 9mm is as effective a round, is more accurate, and you can carry more of them, why would they bother switching to the.40 cal S&W?
@TampaCary WHO CARES what they are carrying? Just a couple of years ago the US MARSHALS were using .357 SIG. Do your research on the caliber that is. You see, it is really all about marketing. Ballistics tests can show whatever they want them to show. Okay, so, a .45 wasn’t getting the job done like “they” wanted, so now a .40 is the hot new thing. And we know how people like to have the latest & greatest thing. It is how our society is…
And, just because government agencies go to it doesn’t mean anything to me. Since when has our government started making smart decisions?! Last time I checked, it is a messed up machine!!! Fact is, with a very small hit ratio percentage, is that .40 REALLY going to make a difference? AND, with a VERY LOW immediate incapacitation rate is that .40 REALLY going to make a difference? NO! If you can’t hit your target
WHERE you need to in order to immediately incapacitate them, caliber is truly irrelevant. Buy into whatever hype you want, it’s YOUR life. Shot placement is EXTREMELY difficult to obtain, so what is there to discuss? The bullet went deep into a part of the body that has no bearing on immediately incapacitatiDrink the kool-aid all you want, a handgun is a poor tool to get the job done the way most people teach. on. Wow, that’s a great point to talk about.
"I have a good deal of trust in our FBI and U.S. Marshall's Service. " Obviously they know best, right? Couldn't be that they want the latest & greatest toys paid for by YOUR tax dollars. I don't know if you are aware of this, but the government has a history of irresponsible spending habits with the tax payers money. Funny thing, I haven't seen an updated version of the FBI's Handgun Wounding Factors & Effectiveness report.
I wonder why that is... Maybe because in the grand scheme of things nothing has changed because their original report was pretty much on the money. Point is, no one has PROVEN that this round can allow you to obtain better shot placement & is better for immediately incapacitating the threat or threats. Shot placement is theory at best because in a dynamic situation it is very difficult to obtain. So, what good is the caliber if you can't hit what you need to in order to take the threat out?
A .460 XVR with 10.5 inch barrel I believe would do some extreme destruction on the human body. It would definitely severe the spinal column. These revolvers such as Super Redhawks and the one I just mentioned are known to severe limbs. They are very scary rounds to fire and to watch impact. You just can't compare anything with these Magnum rounds for power from a handgun. I agree that the recoil can be extreme and hard to handle. So I will say they are not practical weapons for the average.
I agree with the science debunking, "Knockdown power", but, I have always heard and used the term "Stopping power". A 9mm may take several rounds to "Stop" an attack. A .45 may also take more than one round, but, it leaves a bigger hole. While a bullet can't physically "knock" someone down, the right round can stop them in their tracks. On a larger scale, a 9mm won't stop a charging grizzly. A .454 Casull with will. Awesome vids all around though! Good advice for novice and expert alike!
@Thor42013 It's all about penetration and shot placement. However, on human targets that are dynamic, getting shot placement is very difficult. I would count it taking multiple rounds to "stop" someone immediately regarding of the caliber. .45 is not what it is cracked up to be. In fact, no round is. As Americans, we just think that bigger is always better. Sometimes it is...
I have seen a video (don't remember the name) where a cop was doing a routine traffic stop when the guy he stopped went berserk on him. The guy was almost twice the cop's size and threw him around the place like a rag doll. The cop tried pepper spray and even discharged his pistol at close range and missed! It just goes to show that if you panic in a situation, all of your training goes out the window.
the .45 because the 9mm just isn't puttign guys down. But the .45 has a pretty well proven track record of killing the enemy. From ww1,ww2, Korea, Vietnam....I mean that is what I have heard anyways. Like to get your opinion, on that if you have the time.
@GBlues1 The only round that has true knockdown power is a .50. IT is important to note that most people, if not everyone who shoots a .50 cal is laying down or it is mounted to a vehicle, etc. There’s a reason for this other than the size of the gun. Also, the size and weight of the gun does help. Understand that rifle rounds are generally moving at least twice as fast as pistol rounds. If a .45, 9mm, etc. were moving as fast as a rifle round, well then,
, knockdown power MIGHT be possible with a “pistol” round. There is probably a reason that they don’t move as fast and that is recoil management. I’m sure that with the technology in powders it would be possible to get a pistol round moving 2,600+ fps, but it would be next to impossible to shoot it even with two hands without knocking you over. As far as .45’s go, war stories are like fishing stories to some extent.
However, the only way to truly know is to be shot with one. But, the basic concept of physics is enough for me to go on and it makes sense. Would I want to get shot with a .45? Absolutely not! However, I don’t think that it would knock me down. Buy into whatever you want. I don’t believe that anything is for sure regardless of who says it. I sure won’t bank my life on anything other than my skills.
@brian47374 THanks for the information man. Never thought of those things, and does make some sense. Appreciate that. The cavity wound, I still have some doubts on only because of the size difference between say, 9mm and .45. It is considerable when you look at the two side by side. But I will concede to your knoweledge, as it is considerably more than my own, and say this, "I guess it just depends on what your comfortable with. WHatever gives you that warm fuzzy feeling right?" LOL! Great info
Hey man, what about these videos that were coming out of Afghanistan and Iraq of snipers shooting people with .50 caliber rifles, and you see guys getting thrown all over the place, from that round. It has a lot of kinetic energy to it. And the recoil while massive on that rifle, isn't tossing the shooter around like a rag doll. But the guy getting hit looks like he just got blasted with a mini missile. I think there maybe some truth to knockdown power. And a lot of soldiers are switching to
@GBlues1 It isenergy dispersion and perception. The shooter end of the equation has energy mitigated by suppressors, muzzle brakes, rifle action, weight, bi-pod/rest resistance, large butt contact area against the shooter's shoulder and, often, recoil reduction built into the buttstock, Many items combine to reduce recoil energy, reduce recoil velocity, extend the recoil impulse and dissipate it over a large area compared to 720 grains of pointy lead and copper in one small spot at 2800 fps.
@N31373 MAYBE you do know more than the FBI people who do the reports and the physics involved in a handgun round. MAYBE you are somewhat correct. But, MAYBE you are not... I would go with the latter personally. If you "count" on any round getting the job done that isn't a .50 cal, you are drinking the kool-aid my friend. That's just reality.
@brian47374 uh, are we on the same page? Maybe you thought I was talking about handgun terminal ballistics.
I was not.
I was trying to answer the guy's question as to why a .50 BMG didn't do as much damage on the back end as "the out" there end.
This is pretty much pure physics and easily calculated via readily available ballistics software. The tricks, as always, are spreading it over area and time so the shooter perceives it as tolerable.
@brian47374 Nada Problem. I don't disagree with anything I've seen from you so far... but, I'm just a cranky old engineer who has been shooting more than 60 years.... I'm certainly not an Internet Expert.
@brian47374 Actually, reality is that anybody with big game hunting experience should have absolutely no doubt what you say is absolutely correct. If a high power rifle won't knock down a 100 pound deer, why expect a fraction of that energy to do better on a 230 pound druggie? BTW: My doc told me the same as your doctor told you.
He also mentioned the amazing number of attempted suicides where the victim missed everything vital. Kinda supports the Bureau numbers too.
@GBlues1 Again, I was responding to a comment on the .50 BMG rifle recoil. I did not intend to comment on handguns. Sorry if I confused many of you... which I obviously did. :(
Why is it that most of these tactical instructors are cut from the same cloth. Training you get from anyone else is substandard and only my training will save your life... Truely opinions are a dime a dozen, the one common thread is that all of these guys are salesman and are trying to sell you there product. I'm fairly certain that this gentlemans training will be valuable, but no more so than just about any range that provides this kind of training.
@Leavon I will agree with you to an extent. MOST instructors are teaching the same thing, which btw, is NOT life saving stuff. Where I disagree with your statement is that to date, I am not aware of anyone who teaches things the way we do. That is, realistic & practical + simple & effective. I will tell you that I do believe that most other training is inferior simply bc it is BS. If "you" train realistically then you would realize what I'm saying is true.
the best channel on all around info on personal defense, trng, etc. in the web. thanks for sharing this info. keep up the good work, this video series of yours will open a lot of minds on responsible and realistic defensive trng. you are sharing valuable info, this is priceless.
CRAP! I wish I would have watched this video before the shot placement videos! Sorry brian, please dis regard my questions on the shot placement video 2! They got answered here. THanks bro. Now this to me made a lot of sense, and really tied the shotplacement together for me. Thanks man!
Excellent points and great series of videos, solid information to counter the gun myths that are so often repeated on the internet as "facts". Thanks for a good job, hope to see more of your contributions to further the cause of responsible fire arms owners in the USA.
@bgm136 Thanks for your encouraging words. You can EXPECT more things like this & that will "rock the boat". We are about getting the truths out regarding typical firearms training & how things really take place as opposed to what people THINK will happen.
I carry a .357, must of the time I'm carrying .38 special +p rounds in it. Just for the one handed times you talk about. I agree on the "knock Down" theory. You have some Good information in your videos.
averagejoetactical1 1 month ago
In my opinion we have been killing people with .38spl, 9mm, .45acp for years. I feel with .38spl, .357 magnum, if you like big bore in a revolver .44spl, for pistols 9mm, .40cal, .45acp with one of these you will be fine. Again my opinion if you are the law abiding citizen just going about your daily business for your personal protection a 9mm is just fine.
9mmParabellum0321 2 months ago
Let me first off say I carry a 9mm, and its marksmanship and tactics that win gunfights not the larger bullet. You must hit what you are shooting at in order to solve your immendiate problem and reduce your liablilty. Not hitting what you are shooting puts innocent people at risk. Bigger bullets will track better in the body. If I am shooting a 124gr 9mm and you are shooting a 230gr .45acp your putting 50% more bullet down range than me. This is not an attack on Brain47374 its FYI.
9mmParabellum0321 2 months ago
Nicely done.
ZombieTactics 3 months ago
Agree with most all said here...
sbd45acp 3 months ago
I see so much controversy over calibers.... different agencies using different guns...
I appreciate your answer sir... I will be breaking out my Glock 26 with a 15 round mag for my personal carry...Thank you... You are doing a great job in your videos... All the best of luck to you...
TampaCary 5 months ago
I see your point... I don't want to disagree with you, but why have the FBI,
U.S. Marshals, and recently most police forces have switched from the 9mm and now use the Glock S&W 40 cal, which in effect have 2 rounds less in the mags than the 9mm?
TampaCary 5 months ago
@TampaCary The question is, does the .40 have the power to knock someone down? No. Is it "more effective", I don't think so. Why hasn't the Military switched over to .40 cal? Actually, our PD switched to .45's. There is not a lot of difference in a 9mm and a .40 cal. Bottom line is this really and this is what people miss... You are unlikely to immediately neutralize the threat with a handgun in a life or death confrontation.
brian47374 5 months ago
@brian47374 You have evaded my question rather nicely...Sadly our military is using the NATO 9mm in support of Europe with the Italian Barretta, even tho our troops admit that the 9mm Barretta is a joke as far as reliability. I do not know your police department, but I have a good deal of trust in our FBI and U.S. Marshall's Service. So I ask you again, if the 9mm is as effective a round, is more accurate, and you can carry more of them, why would they bother switching to the.40 cal S&W?
TampaCary 5 months ago
@TampaCary WHO CARES what they are carrying? Just a couple of years ago the US MARSHALS were using .357 SIG. Do your research on the caliber that is. You see, it is really all about marketing. Ballistics tests can show whatever they want them to show. Okay, so, a .45 wasn’t getting the job done like “they” wanted, so now a .40 is the hot new thing. And we know how people like to have the latest & greatest thing. It is how our society is…
brian47374 5 months ago
And, just because government agencies go to it doesn’t mean anything to me. Since when has our government started making smart decisions?! Last time I checked, it is a messed up machine!!! Fact is, with a very small hit ratio percentage, is that .40 REALLY going to make a difference? AND, with a VERY LOW immediate incapacitation rate is that .40 REALLY going to make a difference? NO! If you can’t hit your target
brian47374 5 months ago
WHERE you need to in order to immediately incapacitate them, caliber is truly irrelevant. Buy into whatever hype you want, it’s YOUR life. Shot placement is EXTREMELY difficult to obtain, so what is there to discuss? The bullet went deep into a part of the body that has no bearing on immediately incapacitatiDrink the kool-aid all you want, a handgun is a poor tool to get the job done the way most people teach. on. Wow, that’s a great point to talk about.
brian47374 5 months ago
"I have a good deal of trust in our FBI and U.S. Marshall's Service. " Obviously they know best, right? Couldn't be that they want the latest & greatest toys paid for by YOUR tax dollars. I don't know if you are aware of this, but the government has a history of irresponsible spending habits with the tax payers money. Funny thing, I haven't seen an updated version of the FBI's Handgun Wounding Factors & Effectiveness report.
brian47374 5 months ago
I wonder why that is... Maybe because in the grand scheme of things nothing has changed because their original report was pretty much on the money. Point is, no one has PROVEN that this round can allow you to obtain better shot placement & is better for immediately incapacitating the threat or threats. Shot placement is theory at best because in a dynamic situation it is very difficult to obtain. So, what good is the caliber if you can't hit what you need to in order to take the threat out?
brian47374 5 months ago
Essentially what you're saying is that my girlfriend's .22 Derringer will have the same effect as my .50 Desert Eagle?
TitanTony407 5 months ago
A .460 XVR with 10.5 inch barrel I believe would do some extreme destruction on the human body. It would definitely severe the spinal column. These revolvers such as Super Redhawks and the one I just mentioned are known to severe limbs. They are very scary rounds to fire and to watch impact. You just can't compare anything with these Magnum rounds for power from a handgun. I agree that the recoil can be extreme and hard to handle. So I will say they are not practical weapons for the average.
Wrothpestilence 6 months ago
I agree with the science debunking, "Knockdown power", but, I have always heard and used the term "Stopping power". A 9mm may take several rounds to "Stop" an attack. A .45 may also take more than one round, but, it leaves a bigger hole. While a bullet can't physically "knock" someone down, the right round can stop them in their tracks. On a larger scale, a 9mm won't stop a charging grizzly. A .454 Casull with will. Awesome vids all around though! Good advice for novice and expert alike!
Thor42013 6 months ago
@Thor42013 It's all about penetration and shot placement. However, on human targets that are dynamic, getting shot placement is very difficult. I would count it taking multiple rounds to "stop" someone immediately regarding of the caliber. .45 is not what it is cracked up to be. In fact, no round is. As Americans, we just think that bigger is always better. Sometimes it is...
brian47374 6 months ago
I have seen a video (don't remember the name) where a cop was doing a routine traffic stop when the guy he stopped went berserk on him. The guy was almost twice the cop's size and threw him around the place like a rag doll. The cop tried pepper spray and even discharged his pistol at close range and missed! It just goes to show that if you panic in a situation, all of your training goes out the window.
Haseeb2 8 months ago
the .45 because the 9mm just isn't puttign guys down. But the .45 has a pretty well proven track record of killing the enemy. From ww1,ww2, Korea, Vietnam....I mean that is what I have heard anyways. Like to get your opinion, on that if you have the time.
GBlues1 10 months ago
@GBlues1 The only round that has true knockdown power is a .50. IT is important to note that most people, if not everyone who shoots a .50 cal is laying down or it is mounted to a vehicle, etc. There’s a reason for this other than the size of the gun. Also, the size and weight of the gun does help. Understand that rifle rounds are generally moving at least twice as fast as pistol rounds. If a .45, 9mm, etc. were moving as fast as a rifle round, well then,
brian47374 10 months ago
, knockdown power MIGHT be possible with a “pistol” round. There is probably a reason that they don’t move as fast and that is recoil management. I’m sure that with the technology in powders it would be possible to get a pistol round moving 2,600+ fps, but it would be next to impossible to shoot it even with two hands without knocking you over. As far as .45’s go, war stories are like fishing stories to some extent.
brian47374 10 months ago
However, the only way to truly know is to be shot with one. But, the basic concept of physics is enough for me to go on and it makes sense. Would I want to get shot with a .45? Absolutely not! However, I don’t think that it would knock me down. Buy into whatever you want. I don’t believe that anything is for sure regardless of who says it. I sure won’t bank my life on anything other than my skills.
brian47374 10 months ago
@brian47374 THanks for the information man. Never thought of those things, and does make some sense. Appreciate that. The cavity wound, I still have some doubts on only because of the size difference between say, 9mm and .45. It is considerable when you look at the two side by side. But I will concede to your knoweledge, as it is considerably more than my own, and say this, "I guess it just depends on what your comfortable with. WHatever gives you that warm fuzzy feeling right?" LOL! Great info
GBlues1 10 months ago
Hey man, what about these videos that were coming out of Afghanistan and Iraq of snipers shooting people with .50 caliber rifles, and you see guys getting thrown all over the place, from that round. It has a lot of kinetic energy to it. And the recoil while massive on that rifle, isn't tossing the shooter around like a rag doll. But the guy getting hit looks like he just got blasted with a mini missile. I think there maybe some truth to knockdown power. And a lot of soldiers are switching to
GBlues1 10 months ago
@GBlues1 It isenergy dispersion and perception. The shooter end of the equation has energy mitigated by suppressors, muzzle brakes, rifle action, weight, bi-pod/rest resistance, large butt contact area against the shooter's shoulder and, often, recoil reduction built into the buttstock, Many items combine to reduce recoil energy, reduce recoil velocity, extend the recoil impulse and dissipate it over a large area compared to 720 grains of pointy lead and copper in one small spot at 2800 fps.
N31373 7 months ago
@N31373 MAYBE you do know more than the FBI people who do the reports and the physics involved in a handgun round. MAYBE you are somewhat correct. But, MAYBE you are not... I would go with the latter personally. If you "count" on any round getting the job done that isn't a .50 cal, you are drinking the kool-aid my friend. That's just reality.
brian47374 7 months ago
@brian47374 uh, are we on the same page? Maybe you thought I was talking about handgun terminal ballistics.
I was not.
I was trying to answer the guy's question as to why a .50 BMG didn't do as much damage on the back end as "the out" there end.
This is pretty much pure physics and easily calculated via readily available ballistics software. The tricks, as always, are spreading it over area and time so the shooter perceives it as tolerable.
I'll happily leave what happens last for others.
N31373 7 months ago
@N31373 My bad. :)
brian47374 7 months ago
@brian47374 Nada Problem. I don't disagree with anything I've seen from you so far... but, I'm just a cranky old engineer who has been shooting more than 60 years.... I'm certainly not an Internet Expert.
Keep 'em honest!
W.D. Smith
N31373 7 months ago
@brian47374 Actually, reality is that anybody with big game hunting experience should have absolutely no doubt what you say is absolutely correct. If a high power rifle won't knock down a 100 pound deer, why expect a fraction of that energy to do better on a 230 pound druggie? BTW: My doc told me the same as your doctor told you.
He also mentioned the amazing number of attempted suicides where the victim missed everything vital. Kinda supports the Bureau numbers too.
N31373 7 months ago
@N31373 Oh cool information. Thank you for that. But, doesn't the slide take up some of that recoil as well from the pistol?
GBlues1 7 months ago
@GBlues1 Again, I was responding to a comment on the .50 BMG rifle recoil. I did not intend to comment on handguns. Sorry if I confused many of you... which I obviously did. :(
N31373 7 months ago
Excellent material and good presentation. Thumbs up.
cosmicdingo 10 months ago
Why is it that most of these tactical instructors are cut from the same cloth. Training you get from anyone else is substandard and only my training will save your life... Truely opinions are a dime a dozen, the one common thread is that all of these guys are salesman and are trying to sell you there product. I'm fairly certain that this gentlemans training will be valuable, but no more so than just about any range that provides this kind of training.
Leavon 1 year ago
@Leavon I will agree with you to an extent. MOST instructors are teaching the same thing, which btw, is NOT life saving stuff. Where I disagree with your statement is that to date, I am not aware of anyone who teaches things the way we do. That is, realistic & practical + simple & effective. I will tell you that I do believe that most other training is inferior simply bc it is BS. If "you" train realistically then you would realize what I'm saying is true.
brian47374 1 year ago
the best channel on all around info on personal defense, trng, etc. in the web. thanks for sharing this info. keep up the good work, this video series of yours will open a lot of minds on responsible and realistic defensive trng. you are sharing valuable info, this is priceless.
frederickfrenchjr08 1 year ago
CRAP! I wish I would have watched this video before the shot placement videos! Sorry brian, please dis regard my questions on the shot placement video 2! They got answered here. THanks bro. Now this to me made a lot of sense, and really tied the shotplacement together for me. Thanks man!
GBlues1 1 year ago
Excellent points and great series of videos, solid information to counter the gun myths that are so often repeated on the internet as "facts". Thanks for a good job, hope to see more of your contributions to further the cause of responsible fire arms owners in the USA.
bgm136 1 year ago
@bgm136 Thanks for your encouraging words. You can EXPECT more things like this & that will "rock the boat". We are about getting the truths out regarding typical firearms training & how things really take place as opposed to what people THINK will happen.
brian47374 1 year ago