PC Simon Harwood and Why You Should Throw Discarded Litter at Him

[007RoyalFlush]

Aside from the fact that it's likely that the police officer's actions had nothing to do with his death, he should NEVER have been publicly identified. A lot of you are incredibly hypocritical, whining and moaning about potential infingement on your own basic human rights, when PC Harwoods have been blatantly and obviously taken away from him.

[Starman117]

@007RoyalFlush Sorry mate the doctors say it did kill him. I actually agree that no one should have their names revealed before they're found guilty with the obvious exceptions of people who go on the run. But at the moment us mere mortals get our names revealed by the police, who shouldn't technically be doing it, so I fail to see why they should be the exception. he's suffered no more than anyone accused of a crime, in fact much less as he's gonna have had 3 years paid leave before the trail.

[007RoyalFlush]

@Starman117 The medical opinion of different experts is conflicting, which is why there is to be a trial. The Police NEVER reveal names, the people who do are the media. They are the ones who are taking away people fundamental human rights. He has suffered a great deal more than anyone else for the sole reason of the the job he does and the public reaction to it being substantially greater than any other incident.

[Starman117]

@007RoyalFlush Only one doctor says it wasn't that. Three doctors say it was. the one doctor who disagreed has been struck off for gross misconduct after a string of incidents culminating in him ruling a woman found dead covered in bite marks and knife wounds had died of... natural causes! So he is what you and I would call a total idiot not the best defence expert. The media print the names, the police give it to them you see it on the news all the time amoungst other places.

[Starman117]

@007RoyalFlush He's suffered a lot less as he's out on bail on full pay and the pro police crowd is out in force to defend him. Anyone else would have been found guilty by now, even if he is convicted which I doubt his sentence will be a joke.

[007RoyalFlush]

@Starman117 The level of support he is receiving is entirely irrelevent. Is it OK to torture a man if he has a pillow to keep him comfortable? You seem to think that some people are more entitle to fundamental human rights than others. Regardless of your perception of what he has done, he has an absolute right to a fair trial, which the media have taken away from him by broadcasting the incident, and more importantly identifying him. Completely and utterly unacceptable!

[Starman117]

@007RoyalFlush You do realsie the Jury would have seen the video in the court room anyway so i fail too see how seeing it 3 years before the rial will affect the verdict. if the vid hadn't been broadcast we might never have heard the truth. And the Met told the media who he was, there was no way to tell from the vid. Actually police are rarely convicted so the whole thing probably balances itself out. PS I maintain no one should be identified pre trial but as they are now police can't be exempt.

[007RoyalFlush]

@Starman117 Yes they would have see it, the thing you fail to understand is that the video shown in a court room will be unbiased. It will also have no commentary, and the jurors will have no prior opinion on the matter. The jurors will enter the courtroom already knowing if they're going to convict him or not, which is completely wrong. The media have already tainted the trial by releasing the video and creating a public opinion before the trial.

[Starman117]

@007RoyalFlush The media commentary says things like this is the point where Harwood appears to throw him to the ground Tomlinson later died". They would see it and then immediately afterwards the prosecutor would be far less neutral. Harwood pushing over Tomlinson isn't in doubt neither is that it killed him. Harwoods defense will probably be that it was all an accident.

[007RoyalFlush]

@Starman117 The push is not in doubt, but whether it caused his death is the main dispute of the trial, that's why the trial has been postponed. The substance of his defence is not the point of my argument, it is that the media have no right whatsoever to identify him unless he has been found guilty.

[Starman117]

@007RoyalFlush Like I said as long as the media is allowed to identify people then he has to be identified as well. When and if they stop I'm with you, but we're not there yet.

[BigSkimmo]

The fact that he ended up dying is, of course, a tragedy, but should a police officer go to jail for simply doing his job? What if it was less severe? What if he had just taken him by the arm and moved him off the road, and then he had later died? The fact is that the guy shouldn't have been in the way of police. It's terrible that he died but it's a freak accident, not murder. I wish PC Simon Harwood all the best and hope that he continues his career with the police.

[C2TheMizzle]

@BigSkimmo That's assuming he would've just died anyway, which the evidence suggests he would not have. And taking him by the arm and moving him off the road would've been proper procedure, so we wouldn't even be here. Accident, sure. Avoidable, definitely. And for that he belongs in jail. Roll on the trial in June.

[BigSkimmo]

@C2TheMizzle Somehow I think we would still be here. Any involvement with the police that leads to a death has an inquest. I don't agree with your suggestion that just because it was avoidable that he belongs in jail. Many car accidents are avoidable but they are just that: accidents, and drivers regularly avoid punishment. It boils down to whether you consider being shoved like that an acceptable use of force. If it's unreasonable force then it's manslaughter, but I don't think it is.

[Starman117]

@BigSkimmo You're right it's not murder it's manslaughter, when you accidently kil someone people often go to jail, people go to jail for car accidents why not this? Especially as it's so preventable.

[BigSkimmo]

@Starman117: If you read my further comments below I actually mention that it's only manslaughter if you consider it unreasonable force. If the force applied was reasonable then it's simply a tragic accident. There is no way that being pushed out of the way in a riot situation can be considered unreasonable force. You can't, as C2 suggests, just lead him away by the arm. It's a riot situation. You need to put some responsibility on Tomlinson for being part of the disturbance.

[Starman117]

@BigSkimmo It's not a riot situation, the police had the area locked down anyway and Tomlinson took no part in the riots, kindly refrain from making libelous statements,

[BigSkimmo]

@Starman117: Interesting that you say it wasn't a riot situation, then on the next line refer to the riots. Riot police and a hostile crowd certainly looks like a riot situation to me, and from the video Tomlinson is clearly taking part in a resistance by obstructing the police line by moving very slowly ahead it.

Kindly look up the word 'libel' before you start accusing me of it. My comments weren't slanderous nor were they non-factual -they are my opinion- and therefore can't be libellous.

[Starman117]

@BigSkimmo A few windows got smashed a few hours earlier, if you're going to eb picky and call a few smashed windows a riot then that's what Tomlinson wasn't involved in. A hostile crowd doesn't mean it;s a riot situation they have to be you know actually rioting. And just because the riot police have been deployed doesn't mean that it's a riot. Heis not obstructing the police just walking normally, it was their decision to push up, as far as he was concerned he had his back to a stationary line

[Starman117]

@BigSkimmo .. of officers. Also walking slowly does not mean you're taking part in a riot, that's there was one on that that time which there wasn't, U print that in a paper you're in trouble. Saying he's part of the disturbance is not your opinion, saying I don't think he was is your opinion. Nice of you to acknowledge your statements are non factual tho.

[BigSkimmo]

@Starman117: Well, I actually said my statements WEREN'T non-factual, that's what the word 'nor' means in that sentence. Please, I've already asked you once, READ my comments before replying. As far as it being a riot situation, that would depend on the local definition of a riot but where I am (Sydney) a riot is any group of 12 or more people acting in a manner that can cause fear. A large group of hostile people, as you say 'smashing windows' certainly falls into that category.

[BigSkimmo]

@Starman117: ... and the argument that he was just walking normally is just ridiculous. If there's a hostile crowd and a line of riot police are advancing on them, do you consider it 'normal' to be within a few feet of that police line, slowly trundling along? No - A reasonable person would simply leave by the fastest means possible. He was intentionally walking slowly to obstruct police.

[BigSkimmo]

@Starman117... Lastly, there would be no problem with me printing any of this in a paper because I'm simply giving my observations of recorded events. I'm not making anything up or presenting any falsehoods. So unless you've got something relevant to contribute rather than attacking points I didn't make and inventing your own definitions then I'm probably not going to respond again. I don't have the time or the inclination to debate you on a topic that I clearly have to educate you on first.

[Starman117]

@BigSkimmo 3 or 4 people smashed windows, the rest of the crowd just watched,. so not a riot situation. And this was HOURS before Tomlinson was on the scene. You said it's Tomlinson's fault for begin part of the disturbance, can you see him committing a disturbance, because I can't? He was trying to go home and the police kettled and killed him.

[BigSkimmo]

@Starman117: No, he wasn't just trying to go home. If he was trying to go home, he would have left. Plain and simple. 'Sorry officers! I'm out of here!'. The fact that he put his hands in his pockets and walked very slowly directly in front of a police line showed that he was trying to hinder the officers, and play himself off as a victim if they moved him physically. It's a very standard tactic by protesters. He got shoved (reasonable force) and it was a freak accident that he died.

[Starman117]

@BigSkimmo Why is he walking away from this police line? Because he walked up to them and said "sorry officer's I'm out here" and they said "no you're not mate get back in." Watch G20 death: new Tomlinson video by channel 4 it's the 5th vid down on the right, it shows him trying to leave. Btw he's not a protestor he's a newspaper vendor trying to commute home.

[BigSkimmo]

@Starman117: and on that note I'm out of this 'debate'. You're not reading my points and now you're just inventing material that can't be gleaned from the video. Enjoy your life of ignorance, I'm glad that there are more educated people to make the real decisions.

[Starman117]

@BigSkimmo I am using material that's not from this video, I got it by watching another one, like I advised you to do which you obvs can't be bothered to do. Also I read the papers. Goodbye.

[BigSkimmo]

Mate it's good to see that someone actually has a decent level of intelligence making these sorts of videos on YouTube. The only thing that I have to say is that you seem to make it important that the footage was made public (went viral). Realistically, this should not alter the proceedings at all, and it should be based on pure evidence. From my perspective, Tomlinson was acting like a dick by walking slowly in front of a police line and he got shoved. Perfectly reasonable.

[1dantom]

This is nice! a wee video for dope smoking pre pubescent twats. How quaint! TWATS!!!!

[C2TheMizzle]

@1dantom Fair play, you seem a bit prepubescent yourself. Tomlinson's a scumbag, and so are you buddy. Go eat a dick.

[1dantom]

@C2TheMizzle when your balls have dropped....try again with the witty comeback....its a wee bit pathetic currently!

[C2TheMizzle]

@1dantom I'm 19, you moron. As for the "witty comeback", that wasn't meant to be witty or a comeback; I was making an honest and clear point. While we're here, I think you should use more exclamation marks in your comments. It makes it so much easier to take you seriously.

[1dantom]

@C2TheMizzle 19 or not, your balls still havent dropped twat!

[C2TheMizzle]

@1dantom These are all very valid and relevant arguments. I'll tell ya what, you make a video explaining that you're not a fucking moron. As soon as I'm done laughing, I'll get in the comments and disagree with you.

[1dantom]

@C2TheMizzle hmm..fail! no coherant argument so....back to stepmoms apron strings and ......shooooooosh!

[C2TheMizzle]

@1dantom Mate... what the fuck are you talking about? And you can't really criticise the coherence of my arguments when you can't even spell "coherent". Let's back up; you've called some people twats, made a pretty juvenile comment about my balls, and now you claim to have won the argument - if you can call it that. Well no, man, all you've accomplished is proven quite spectacularly that you are a dickhead who can't spell. And no amount of exclamation marks is gonna change that I'm afraid.

[1dantom]

@C2TheMizzle errr fail puberty boy!

[C2TheMizzle]

@1dantom Haha xD You're really running out of ideas, aren't you. You're pretty shit at witty comebacks yourself.

[1dantom]

@C2TheMizzle hmmm...backing a losing argument...using profanity.....hmmmm? Twat much?

[C2TheMizzle]

@1dantom Yes, mate. That's exactly what you're doing. Good obeservation, dumbass.

[joinusinsong]

NEXT CUTS PROTEST JUNE 30TH LICOLNS INN FIELDS TO PARLIAMENT SQ 11:30 ASSEMBLY

[hackneydemon08]

I will bet You more than a tenner 'moosh'! Obama will benefit from this lie... due to his upcoming re-election!

[C2TheMizzle]

@hackneydemon08 Hmm... I dunno man :P If "Pretend to Kill Bin Laden" was a trump card to boost approval ratings, don't you think Bush would've used that one back in the day when the hunt for Bin Laden was a bigger deal? His approval ratings weren't exactly top notch on the runup to the 2004 election...

[29649ron]

This cop needs a good 20 years in jail, let the other prisoners deal with this scum.

[AnnoyingTypoSyndrome]

@29649ron:

even if they did put him in nick (which they wont), he would go to an open prison, especially made for pigs.

Basically, you could call it a health farm.