This is what Ezekiel prophecies against Tyre in 26:14, "I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will NEVER be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD."
If one goes to Google Earth today one can see that Tyre is very much rebuilt and is a city of over 120,000 people.
jesus is a swindler, he's absolutely fake, theres no god, god is fake just for comfortable human heart, who created god, if god exist, what make you think he only one,
jesus is a faker, who make many false miracle to trick people
ok, ok, i believe. you've convinced me. god likes the smell of burning flesh:
Numbers 28:
1 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Give this command to the Israelites. Tell them: ‘Bring me food offerings made by fire, for a smell that is pleasing to me, and be sure to bring them at the right time.’ 3 Say to them, ‘These are the offerings you must bring to the Lord: two male lambs, a year old, as a burnt offering each day.
@castelgandalf you do realise in this text god is referring to the scent of sacrafice right? the food and meat offerings of the best of the israelites produce... today we only require jesus blood on our hearts as he is the ultimate lamb of god sacraficed for our sins... please dont read the bible like a 5 year old have some decentcy to extend yr wider knowlegde...
@6gunwalker yes, i do realize he is refering to the scent of burning flesh offered as sacrifice. does that make god's liking it any less bizarre?
do you realize i'm responding to a video entitled: "The Bible Can Be Trusted."
i try to take people's claims and respond to them at face value, nonetheless, it's hard to set aside your willing suspension of disbelief when discussing a book of fairytales.
@castelgandalf lol its funny how quickly you turn from understanding the biblical context from a 5 year old point of view to rationalist view lol im not gonna even attempt to try and explain the truthful relevence the bible holds to our lives, future and universe because you would rather see it as a hobbit book... good luck to you sir
good call: don't even attempt it. the bible has about as much truth and relevance as the hobbit. well, not exactly. at least the hobbit had a well defined good guy and bad guy. in the bible, the homicidal psychopathic superbeing is yahweh, LOL!
tolkien gives us better moral guidelines than god:
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."
he says he has a muslim friend lol muslims dont consider non muslims friends , period..as for them both debating , its kinda like ' my dad can kick your dads ass'
I advise my friends to read the book by Maurice Bucaille: translated into Arabic and English: the Bible, Qur'a, and Science. U will understand what the Bible is and what the Qur'an is and to what extent they agree with scince.
I highly doubt he has a muslim friend with whom he debates the credibility of the bible as opposed to the Quran. And what eyewitness accounts? The ones in the bible? Or ones that, like the bible, have been rewritten, misinterpreted, and translated time and time again for thousands of years? Sounds fishy.
To everyone who does not believe that God is real, or that Jesus is the Son of God who was crucified, died, buried and rose for our sins..how do u
explain the filling of the holy spirit that Christians TODAY as myself have experienced and that is recorded in the bible? The filling of the Holy Spirit is a language that is a gift from God give 2 Christians. I received this gift over 10
@SuperLoveofGod Do you realize how easy it is to trick the human mind? Speaking as a former creationist, I once was so moved by "God's love" that I openly wept and thought my diabetes had been healed. Despite my unshakable faith and my insistence on not taking insulin, I got sick and almost had to go to the hospital by the next day. Turns out I wasn't healed and my "experience" was all in my head. Just be careful, I used to sound just like you.
@emotimeroski345 How can a man be an eye witness when he wasn't even born when Jesus died. If a Jesus did exist, he was believed to have died on the cross in the year 30 to 32 AD, Josephus wasn't even born until 37 AD.
Oh sure, the fact that the church hand picked out verses from many books and most likely edited them (rather poorly, count the contridictions) is a VALID reason you can trust something from the same people who shove their nose into homosexual's lives and rights.
@DiscoRByrno Really I can't continue having this conversation with you, you clearly don't respect my beliefs. I have plenty to say about this topic, but not if it's a fight, so I'd rather not. Please, let's just leave it at that.
@DiscoRByrno Well for you it is the absolute default position. But for me the fact of 12 people dying for their faith and writing about it is plenty of proof. Also hearing about non- heresy claims of people seeing Jesus after he died just reassures it. (Emphasis on the hearing.) So my default is that Jesus is the son of God. I'd like to leave off on that note before this might turn on into a full on brawl.
@DiscoRByrno Ok, when I get the motivation to research all this I will lol. I've looked up some stuff about this topic before, but not enough to be able to site ALL of my facts. I can respect the fact your default is to reject ,I can understand. Thanks for your input :)
@DiscoRByrno Please show me the facts that 515 in fact did not see Jesus, and show me the documents that are lies. All I can do is give you my word that I watched a documentary listing the documents of the 515 accounts, though I do not know how to find it again. Including the evidence I just gave you in the previous posts that is all I can give for now.
@DiscoRByrno Mormonism was created by Joeseph Smith who was the only witness to these events. Many other ancient religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism don't have any evidence that they are the true religion. (Though I do respect them and find them culturally interesting.) But if you look at Christianity New and Old Testament there is evidence EVERYWHERE. Read next post ---->
@DiscoRByrno I haven't researched this topic as thoroughly as Lee Strobel, but I do understand that the New Testament books in the Bible were written by people who were direct witness of Jesus's miracles. Then they ALL died for their faith. Why would they die for something they knew was false? And on top of that other religions don't have eye witnesses. The last prophet of Islam was Muhammad, and he was the only one who witnessed everything. Read next post ----->
@DiscoRByrno It's a proven fact that Jesus simply existed, even in public schools they teach that o.0 And I think we can all agree about the fact that the body is dead after you die, so let's keep this argument about if Jesus existed or not, instead of me being too stupid to comprehend what I believe in. It's about the soul being alive after your body has died. And frankly even if you look up common sense you won't have a definite answer about your soul. Anyways, read next post --->
@DiscoRByrno For Christianity it comes down to if Jesus existed and rose from the dead. It is proven he existed, but did he rise from the dead? If you research, you'll find there are 515 accounts of people seeing him alive after he died, and there are also several documents stating this. On top of that all the 12 disciples who are also historical figures and direct witnesses died for their faith.12 people would not die for something they didn't believe in.If that's not fact I don't know what is.
@TheDarvus I have Zero evidence for U. U may be just a nasty programmed robot spewing out comments from a data bank. So where is your evidence? It is easy to say to others, "let me see your evidence: Your problem may be that your bias does not allow you to hear the evidence. Regarding the patriarchs or any Biblical writings you obviously do not understand that the scrollwriters making one mistake means the whole scroll was thrown out. That is more accurate than the evening news.
@DiscoRByrno There is internal evidence in the Bible which is borne up by historians like Flavius Josephus. I have no evidence that you are not simply a nasty little robot programmed to make comments on YouTube on various topics. So I rest my case and myself. I am going to bed. Happy NoDay!
@7777reasons if u are still struggling with the Josephus "evidence" then I suggest you go and do some honest research instead of making derogatory comments to others. Are you being paid to be a twit? haha - your words not mine. Or are you one of these sad individuals who thinks he is doing gods work by being a twat to the unbelievers? No skin off your nose hey coz YOU are RIGHT and you aint gonna burn, so may as well stick your middle finger up at those who are
I doubt Lee Strobel has any Muslim friends over to his house to debate religion; but whatever. If promoting the accuracy of scripture is his ultimate goal then Strobel needs to promote his message to the bible translators and publishers who commonly discredit verses and scriptures throughout the bible.
On the other hand, if the goal is to make a buck or two off of book sales and speaking fees then he should just keep making this sales pitch to non-scientific, non-academic church audiences.
@gsschoenfeld Oh please, you don't even know him. I've heard him talk live, and believe me he's sincere. Why don't you go shove a stick up your ass. It's people like you that take the most kindest and sincere people I know and in a couple of paragraphs make them look like shit because you don't know what the fuck your talking about. People like you literally make me feel sick.
@cottoncandy113 Listen, there is nothing wrong with making a living on book sales and speaking fees. Nor is their anything wrong with promoting the accuracy of the scriptures. But ultimately I wish Strobel and others would carry their message back to the bible publishers at times. Perhaps he could start a petition to bring attention to some of the unsavory practices, or bring to attention that many of the people who translate the bible don't actually believe in it themselves.
@gsschoenfeld You really made making a living off of book sales and speaking fees sound crude. I understand that you want Bible publishers to know about God, but Lee Strobel is making a HUGE difference in Atheists, Christians, and many other people's lives. If YOU don't like the fact that the Bible publishers don't know about Christ, then YOU should take the action instead of complaining about it on someone's video who has drastically and positively changed MANY people's lives.
@cottoncandy113 I am taking action, by commenting on videos like these. I hope my comments help a lot of people who are searching for the truth. Once I build my army, then we will proceed to march on the publishers, demanding full disclosure of their theories and determine if they changed any of the wording in the bible at the request of their respective marketing departments. I've got to start somewhere, so I'm starting here. Sorry if that's inconvenient.
@gsschoenfeld Taking action by posting comments on Youtube isn't much of a start. Why not blog or vlog about it maybe? People post comments here all the time, and honestly it usually only effects a few. I highly doubt that people are changing what the Bible says, first off just because they're not Christian doesn't mean they're not professional. And second, even if they do change words in the Bible which I highly doubt they will, Scholars and educated people will CLEARLY be able to tell.
@cottoncandy113 Thanks for your concern regarding my methodology. It is the proverbial slow boat to china. But the one thing I've learned in life, is that the most effective way to change the world is one person at a time as they are willing to listen.
Words in the bible have changed, and yes the scholars can tell, but that doesn't mean they care. The bible used to promote the existence of dragons and unicorns. But modern scholars and ministry seems embarrassed to mention any of that today.
@gsschoenfeld My point is really, I don't think you should be wasting your energy on people who change the Bible. I understand that there are different versions, but no ones trying to trick anybody. Do you have any proof even of people wrongfully changing the Bible?
@cottoncandy113 Then let me ask you this. Do you believe the New World Translation published primarily for the Jehovah's Witnesses is an accurate and reliable translation? Or is it more likely that it has been tweaked and altered to support.
By their own legally binding testimony most modern bible publishers ADMIT they made non-factual changes to the text. They admit this when they claim a copyright, because you cannot copyright facts, true stories, or public information.
@gsschoenfeld Though I do know what Jehova's Witnesses is, I've never read the New World Translation.Do you have any specific verses showing that they're outrageously untrue? Also can you show me a RELIABLE article or even video saying people are wrongfully changing the Bible?
@cottoncandy113 Well can you show me a RELIABLE article or video saying people are rightfully changing the bible?
None of this is rocket science. All a person needs to do is take a little extra time to check the footnotes while reading their bible. They will soon discover they translators and publishers discredit many verses in the footnotes. Some even gerrymander entire verses in to the footnotes. See Luke 17:35 in an NIV, ESV, or NLT.
@cottoncandy113 If it's ok to move verses in to the footnotes it should be perfectly fine for anyone else to just cross-out whatever verses they don't agree with. Maybe you're ultimately ok with that. But if it's not ok to cross-out verses then the publishers have some detaled explaintions to give. And churches should quit turning a blind-eye to that practice.
@gsschoenfeld To me, it's not ok for people to do that, I'm just asking for an example of it. Anyways I don't think you should be yelling at publishers or Lee Strobel, but Jehova's Witnesses for doing this if they really are to an extreme extent that you're claiming. ( I really don't know if they are, that's why I'm asking you.)
@cottoncandy113 You must be hyper-sensitive or something because I've not been yelling at anybody. But I have given you numerous examples. Let me enumerate them. A) How dragons and unicorns have been removed from the bible. B) The copyright which is subtly used by publishers to indicate their translation has been altered and now legally qualifies as fiction. and C) the methods of eliminating verses through the use of footnotes. You have yet to give any evidence to the contrary.
@gsschoenfeld Oh my goodness you're an ass. When I say EXAMPLE I mean a LITERAL example. For EXAMPLE: Take a verse out of the Jehova's Witnesses Bible, and COMPARE it to one in the actual Bible. I can't just take your word for it, that's what I mean by EXAMPLE. I wasn't trying to prove you wrong, I was simply sharing my opinions and giving you a chance to state why you're right.
@cottoncandy113 Despite some abusive things you've said to me, I've given reasonable answers to your questions. Maybe you don't agree with them, but if I'm grossly wrong you should be able to bring a reasonable challenge to the floor for conversation. Instead you've given me further abuse in the form of passive-aggressive dismissals and insults.
It appears you do not wish to have a conversation about apologetic evidences or share a message of genuine faith. You're just a punk. I've given you ample room to demonstrate otherwise, but your true colors are evident. I hope someday you learn the humility you need to grow as a person and behave as an adult.
@gsschoenfeld I'm not being passive aggressive, just flat out aggressive, you're the one being passive. I really hope you don't act this way in real life because you come off as a self-righteous ass. I'm not trying to prove you wrong in that area, I sincerely would just like to know. That's why I'm asking you to take a literal verse from the Jehova's Witnesses Bible, and compare to one in a non Jehova's Witnesses Bible. Read next post----> Or read previous post if you read this first <---
@gsschoenfeld I'm not trying to abuse you, you but you are simply BEGGING for it.You come off as an ass hole. If you don't want to be treated like one then don't make comments like the one you said that started this whole conversation, or don't say rude and persnickety comments that make the person you're talking with lower than you. If you don't want to be treated like an ass, it's simple, don't act like one.
@gsschoenfeld I'm sorry for cussing at you. It seems when I'm polite about controversial things, people just walk all over me, but the one time I just lost it and cussed you out, you didn't cuss back at me. Thank you for still being polite :)
@gsschoenfeld I think you should stick to the issue which is about Lee Strobel and what he discovered. Your broken violin regarding scriptures gets boring and is not relevant.
@7777reasons The correct terminology is a "broken record", or a "tiny violin". Next time you think about challenging me don't. You appear to be lacking the required intellectual bandwidth to engage these conversations.
@gsschoenfeld So oh mighty one I am not to question you? Are you the almighty I have heard about or should I look for another? Your arrogant attitude of superiority trumps your civility. If you make such snap judgements about people could you perhaps have done the same about Lee Strobel & perhaps atheism? It seems like a trait that you have from the evidence you have given me. And by the way, intellect doesn't fit in bandwidths. If yours does, go to another supplier who gives more. I have.
@Treyb3yond Perhaps Judge Judy could help you with this? In a court of law, you are way off the mark. IN the court of evidence yes they are. Those who have seen a place or an event can testify about it.
YET AGAIN Peter Joseph is proved to be a LIAR with a "Scientific Method" of LYING!
SHITEGEIST AGAINDUMB is NWO disinfo claiming to be NON-religious yet PJs' main sources are from renowned Satanist authors using distorted 'MYTHS' from1000+yrs AFTER Jesus!
IM NOTreligious
JESUS IS NOT RELIGION. - He's a HISTORICAL ANTI-BANKER, REVOLUTIONARY MAN!
SHITEtHEIST takes religion of Satanism VERY seriously! Venus=Star of Satan Bankers quest for CONTROL isNOT helped if people know of a REVOLUTIONARY!
@isaacmannion my bad -- u believe in the same book, guess ur right im the idiot -- dear god please dont sling poop in my face, I know ur older than time, and since u like to sling human poop, It would have to be a just and righteous act, but please learn slinging poop is stupid, and you dont want to be known as the stupid, poop slinging god, do you????
excuse me guys, but...may i cut in? I'd like to point you to walter veith's video series "a spade unearths the truth", since most of you here seems to be seekers of historic-archeological facts that would validate/disprove the bible. well...there you have it.
Okay you're not being logical, You are just insulting the man without telling everyone why you think what he said was *Bull* Did you even sit down and really watch *The case for christ* and listen, instead of just hearing him and judging constantly. You should be more open to other opinions from people and doing your own research to prove it wrong or to know more.
@EternalServant71 what he said would only NOT be seen as bull by someone with a biased opinion.
And I did listen to what he had to say. The entire lot of "evidence" in the "Case for Christ" is based on biblical writings. Nothing he mentioned in his documentary can be proven without a doubt so he DOES NOT have the right to say that Christians have an "unfair advantage" or should play the "truth" card.
@xBlackSeedxghost You are incorrect when you say "everything is based on Biblical writings" which have been shown to be very accurate and internally consistent. Read about the dead sea scrolls. Can you prove that he is wrong without a doubt? My friend you are asking the impossible. Do any of us know anything without a doubt? Even illusionists can trick your eyes, and your other senses are sometimes fooled. It is the preponderance of evidence as in a court of law. God loves you.
@EternalServant71 ALSO Archeology has proven that some places mentioned in the bible existed at a point in time, but that does not provide merit to ALL biblical writings. That's like saying the north pole is real so Santa MUST be real. ALSO I do not need to prove ANYTHING wrong but people who say they are right need to provide something valid to prove they are indeed so.
@xBlackSeedxghost Of course not. But it provides merit for that one does it not? Your example about the North Pole has gone south I am afraid. So since you say you are right, then what evidence do you have? Let us use your own standards.
@7777reasons Ugh seeing you missed every single point I made AND put words in my mouth by saying that I "said I was right" (about what? Where did I say I was right?) I am not going to even entertain you. Go get a book on reading and comprehension, then attempt to respond to my statements.
@xBlackSeedxghost Your ludicrous comments which lack any credulity or truth are simply common insults rather than a comment about anything to be taken serious. If you think he should be quiet, have you ever thought of NOT being a hypocrite and being quiet yourself? Your emotional reactions suggest you should see an MD rather soon. Why don't you come back when you have something intelligent to say?
"he proved it by returning from the dead" "documentary evidence" lol!! strobel certainly found his way to make money - "we have truth on our side" my god, he should feel ashamed
@cattlexing So how do you make yours? Are you being paid to be a twit? Your obnoxious insults are just that. Your mockery perhaps deserves to be mocked. You present no evidence just biased beliefs which your programming has told your brain was sufficient. But there are those of us who want evidence not just easy mockery which is childish.
no other book is like the bible? What about all that mythology before it that pretty much has similar or exactly similar stories? sorry, but i'm not buying what your selling mr.stroebel.
@7777reasons He is clearly trying to sell it, just like most evangelists. Ah yes it's free to ignore evidence and reason, and who needs money anyway when you can become a robot and give 10% of your earnings to a church :D. One more thing if it's free why would I not have enough money to buy it if it was for sale? see how stupid that sounds?
@enternalinferno Perhaps you have been living on the farm too long and can only use vulgar common language with no evidence just mockery. Get a life. There IS life beyond your BULL*
@cattlexing That is your biased opinion to avoid discussing the issues he raises. Look up the definition of logical fallacy and you will see your name on it. God loves you anyway.
@gregrutz Where did the Bible ever say there was a global flood? You have to understand that we each have a world which revolves around us. You may not know the world of the Pygmy or the Aboriginal of Australia and you obviously do not know the WORLD of the ancients. It was the part of the world which they knew. You swallowed the camel.
Eyewitness accounts are the least reliable form of evidence. We know this from modern day court trials and all the eyewitnesses who have seen ghosts and aliens.
It hasn't been confirmed by archeology at all, so thats just a lie.
It contradicts reality, science, itself, full of mistakes and inaccuracies, has been edited throughout the years and has many different versions.
@sports444life For a start its not 500+ eyewitnesses, its a book written by someone that is attesting that there were 500 eyewitnesses.
Secondly, i can think of loads of real life examples where large groups of people are constantly 'tricked' or fooled. All the people that think statues of the virgin mary are really crying anyone?
@BeforeTheNoose I'll believe the historical evidence I see. And besides all these 500 people weren't together, they were in separate places at separate times. Yup all tricked into believing he rose from the dead. And then a Church springs up right after as Strobel stated, ya definitely just coincidence or a fraud.
@sports444life Errr, you contradicted yourself in your own post. So the 500 people weren't together...but they all saw him rise from the dead? Which is it? Are they all eyewitnesses, or are they all in separate places at separate times? It can't be both.
If you are willing to believe that a dead body rose again and became alive based on the writings in a book that thinks the earth is flat you'll believe anything.
@BeforeTheNoose Lol, it's funny how you try to instantly prove me wrong by saying i'm contradicting myself. There were 500 eyewitnesses who saw him, many of them talking and touching him after his resurrection, this doesn't mean they were all at the same place. Jesus visited many people and places before he went back to Heaven. No contradiction. It believes the Earth is flat eh? Isaiah 40:22: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth"... That means it's definitely flat!
@sports444life Oh you foolish, foolish person. The earth isn't a circle, its a sphere. Circles are flat.
Oh so these 500 people didn't see him rise from the dead then? So whats your point?
Whatever it is its still meaningless. We don't have 500 eyewitnesses we have a book claiming there were once 500 eyewitnesses. And as said, there are 1000's of people who think they saw statues of virgin mary crying blood. Eyewitnesses are poor forms of evidence.
@BeforeTheNoose Secular sources also claim Jesus' death and resurrection. His tomb was empty. And to say the Bible is basically a fairy tale is laughable. It's the most accurate historical book we have to date. Keep calling me foolish though, it's okay, I can deal with that =). So eyewitnesses who saw something and then decided to live their life for that thing that wasn't real isn't miraculous? People won't just go die for something that they don't fully believe to be real.
@sports444life You've said so many silly things! Firstly what people believe to be real has no bearing on what is real. Secondly people dying for their beliefs provides NO evidence for anything. Muslims die for their beliefs, by your logic that makes their religion correct!
What are these secular sources for the resurrection? A tomb being empty isn't evidence of this. Really, if you went into the grave yard and saw an empty tomb would you conclude some rose from the dead and walked out!?
@BeforeTheNoose Yes, if it was heavily guarded by Roman guards and a huge freakin' stone was put in front of the tomb I think that's pretty miraculous that the tomb was empty. Celsus (178 A.D.), did not deny Jesus' existence. Mara Bar-Serapion (Post 70 A.D), claims Jews killed their wise King and were punished and driven from their land. Flavius Josephus (37 - 100 A.D.), claimed that Jesus rose on the third day. If you don't put context to any work it will contradict itself. Contradiction cant..
@sports444life Yeah but you're using the bible to prove the bible, so again you provide no evidence. At least no where near enough to believe someone rose from the dead. What evidence would you require to believe that someone did that today? It would have to be alot of water tight evidence.
Instead what you have is a book with loads of mistakes in it, barbaric rituals and editing, with clear motivation to control people. Very weak evidence.
@BeforeTheNoose I didn't use the Bible to prove itself... I gave you 3 sources outside the Bible. Most conservative scholars? Can I have some names please, and the percentages of what "most" means. Also, we have manuscripts and writings that date back to 20-30 years of Jesus' death. The manuscripts haven't been changed. "Clear motivation to control people" maybe God's will for us... not to control us. Who is trying to "control" us besides God? I'm not tied to the Church. "No two Christians...
@sports444life Firstly they weren't evidence lines for the resurrection. Secondly, don't use a red herring and start just trying to sight people who thought a person called jesus existed. You have to be able to provide evidence for the existence of the jesus of the bible - the one that apparently did miracles.
Thirdly, saying "celsus did not deny jesus" is hardly compelling evidence for either jesus or the resurrection, and all he said was that if people are going to believe in the pagan..
@BeforeTheNoose So we are supposed to believe what you say on Faith but a book that millions of people have believed and has changed their lives for the better we are supposed to believe is Sesame Street? Try some logic.
@BeforeTheNoose be proved in the Bible. Sure you can try to be bring about contradictions, but that's most likely because you aren't reading it in context. Context is key. You completely deny anything supernatural to ever being able to happen so you are already setting limits. If you already have pre-conceived ideas it is impossible to reason.
@sports444life Oh its the good ol' out of context argument. Its a shame no two christians can ever decide what is in context and out - hence why we have 1000000's of demoniations, and no two christians believing the same thing.
There is very little historical evidence for the resurrection outside the bible itself. There for you are reliant on the bible to prove itself. The first problem with that is obvious i'm sure. You can use Lord of the Rings to prove itself.
@BeforeTheNoose can ever decide what is in context and out"... Another generalization. Sure, many different denominations exist, but many of the churches are just set up differently and do not teach an altered message. If you go to any Christian church, they will teach that Jesus' died and rose again on the 3rd day, the trinity, love and honor God and love your neighbor. If they teach these things they are a Christian church. It's no question that Jesus existed... the claim is that he never...
@sports444life literal hell and those who don't....guess what? They can't both be right. I always find the context argument a barrel of lols. Its funny that people get to choose the context of a passage, which just so happens to fit with their personal world view. You'd think God would make it clearer.
PSA 92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
ISA 57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."
@BeforeTheNoose rose from the dead. It's a fact that he was a real person, people just refuse to believe he rose from the dead because it was "impossible". Also, as far as the authenticity of the Bible is concerned, there is no reason for all these different authors to compose a mass conspiracy. Did you know there were around 40 authors of the Bible who lived on 3 different continents? It would be the largest conspiracy on Earth. It just wouldn't make sense.
@sports444life ..mythology then its no more stupid to believe in jesus. Again with Mara, like i've already said - being a martyr does not mean there is evidence. Islam has martyrs as well you know. His 'evidence' is basically just heresy again.
But as said, lets not move the goal posts. You need to provide evidence that someone rose from the dead! Please do so. Even if you actually had 500 people now who said they saw this happen, it would still not be sufficient...
@BeforeTheNoose Haha, what is sufficient for you? YOU have to see him rise? Or would you just say he wasn't dead. As far as i'm concerned, the Bible is trustworthy, there is no reason for the disciples to tell lies and then write these things down and make billions of people follow them. They wanted to spread the truth. Yes, there are martyrs in Islam... Because they truly believe it, however Islam is just like every other religion besides christianity. As long as you do more good works...
@sports444life Well, as we know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The nay say of some sheep herders, which was then written in a book long after the event is hardly evidence at all - we don't even know if anyone did see the event.
Its really very simple and i'm not sure why you are getting confused. Someone tells you they saw a man rise from the dead, do you:
@BeforeTheNoose However, yes people may have thought this but does it explain how peoples lives were changed a whole 180 degrees? Complete skeptics turned into fervent believers?
Okay, number of people doesn't matter, but you still reject eyewitness accounts because you believe the Bible to be inaccurate?
No, definitely not ignorant of it's contents, I just don't know where you are pulling these things from...
Yes, I have actually thought about that, and no there was no motive...
@sports444life "Complete skeptics turned into fervent believers?" Firstly evidence of this is needed, and secondly they were obviously not skeptics if they were convinced by such weak evidence. Its like Kirk Cammeron saying he was a devout atheist. Nonsense.
"reject eyewitness accounts because you believe the Bible to be inaccurate?" No. I reject eye witness accounts alone in many case, such as alien sightings, loc ness monster, etc. And as said they are not considered reliable in a court of
@sports444life "No, definitely not ignorant of it's contents, I just don't know where you are pulling these things from..." from the bible dude. You should read it without the rose glasses. It promotes slavery, stoning of children and women, rape, human sacrifice and mindless killing. Also jesus believed in infinite punishment for finite crimes, which is morally bankrupt.
Right, please try to think about this logically and open minded. I doubt it was some massive conspiracy involving..
@BeforeTheNoose the time that we have. He gives us plenty of time to accept or reject him. If we don't accept him in 5 years, or 50 years, why would we accept him in 1000 years? And say you die and are judged and go to Hell and then wish you were in Heaven, why would you wish you were in Heaven, to stop the pain or to be close to God? Most likely just to stop the pain. God wants people who love him, not people who are selfish.
@BeforeTheNoose Seriously though, what would be the motive behind some sheepherders and fishermen to all conspire together to make as many people follow them as they could? There is no motive, it makes no sense. So, to say that the N.T. writers just made up Jesus' and his fulfilled prophecies is laughable. Almost everyone acknowledges Jesus' was a real person, I can't remember if you said he was or not.
@sports444life law. People lie, people get tricked, people's mind tricks them especially when they want to believe something really badly and some people are delusional. This is why.
Also i'd like to note that you are again using the bible as prove of jesus, who was only known from....the bible. You can't use the bible to prove the bible. Also its likely that the accounts were not written by eyewitnesses.
But anyway the discussions on whether a man called Jesus existed are a red herring.
@BeforeTheNoose I don't think someone dying and people seeing him dead and then seeing him alive later is weak evidence. Yes, eye witness accounts can be faulty, however, what makes an eyewitness account valid? Saying that eye witness accounts are inaccurate just because something seems unlikely or impossible is already counting God out. A lot of people in the Bible must have been delusional =) and they definitely must have been delusional if they started a church!
@BeforeTheNoose How is that a red herring? He existed, it's not diverting the attention lol. The Bible already proves itself because it's the word of God. But, I guess that is my opinion. The Bible is an extraordinary book, it's one of a kind and is definitely the most controversial. I wonder why that is. "Likely", that's speculation. They were written by men who were close to Jesus and the disciples. You are already claiming that nothing "magical" can happen. I don't like the word magic so...
@BeforeTheNoose lets use the word supernatural. You can't count the supernatural out and you can't have the same way of looking at something supernatural as you would something ordinary. It doesn't work. And Jesus was God so of course he could do these things. The evidence is the Bible. What evidence would you like, photographs? Maybe some video? Even then you would still be skeptical. The point is we have the Bible which is the word of God and makes claims that were fulfilled. I can say this...
@BeforeTheNoose because it hasn't been changed and is accurate in it's dates. Also, we also have the most evidence of it due to archaelogical finds. Just because there are harsh judgments and bad things in a book does not mean the author of that book is an evil person. He is an author describing what happens and how things should be. You are referring to O.T. tradition and law which was very strict and much different than today's society. Infinite punishment is only fair if we reject him in...
@sports444life Because i can fully believe that someone called jesus existed, probably alot of people called jesus. And i can believe that some people may have considered one of them to be a messiah. But you're arguing on whether a man magically came back from the dead, walked on water etc, for which there is pretty much no evidence for outside the bible.
@sports444life everyone in the entire world. People will just believe this stuff with out much evidence or thinking about it, just like today with the likes of johnothan edwards etc. There is no massive conspiracy that every one who believes in that prat are in on. They genuinely believe it, its just their reasons for believing it are bad.
However back then it was even worse, because people knew less about reality, science was conceived, and there was no access to information like
@BeforeTheNoose Definitely not a conspiracy lol. I don't think my reasons for believing are bad. I have evidence for it, and that's enough for me. If the Bible is the word of God then it wouldn't lie right? Sure i'm using the Bible to prove the Bible however if the book is right can't in stand on it's own?
..we have today, such as the internet. I mean when i was young i used to believe this as well, and day to day people wouldn't question anything, i wouldn't think too much about it and if something seemed illogical or stupid i'd try and justify it. That would have probably continued throughout my life if it wasn't for the internet and books, although it started to become obvious when i was 12 and realised not every religion can be right
@sports444life No, not every acknowledges jesus was real at all - not jesus of the bible anyway. Infact the largest proportion of the world don't. And the ones who do don't possess any convincing evidence.
Honestly mate, even you must see what you're saying is grasping at straws? You have a book which claims things will happen...then much later another book is written that says these things have, and the first answer you go to is it was magic? Not that the second book was written in
@sports444life Going by your logic then Islam is right because you have many extremists blowing themselves up and killing tons of people and hundreds of thousands or more following it. Just because people follow something and are willing to die for it does not make it true.
@sports444life Billions of people following this belief is not evidence. How many tiimes! The same argument can be applied to other religions, Hinduism must be true as it has loads of followers. Argumentum ad populum. Stupid argument. Everyone used to believe the world was flat as well....you're point?
In fact we can just use your silly argument back at you, only around 33% of the world are Christians, so that means that over 60% don't believe in that fairy tale, ergo its not real.
@sports444life What are you on about regards islam? You can't just refute that point be saying "islam is like every other religion beside christianity" and claim thats the point answered.
Yeah islam has bad teachings, but your bible has just as many awful ones - and in many ways some of the verses about the inferiority of women are worse. Have you even read your bible?! U seems very ignorant of its contents..like most christians
@sports444life ..why? Because so far we've witnessed no one rise from the grave, and we know people are tricked and are delusional all the time. Magic shows, alien sightings, people who think that god has appeared in a cheese sandwich etc. So its far more likely that the event didn't happen, and a load of people were just lead to believe it did.
You think that all the denominations believe the same thing?! Please, that is an outright lie. Straight away i can think of ones who believe in a
@BeforeTheNoose So Jesus' resurrection was a magic trick? And it's tricked billions of people over the years? It was all a conspiracy for some fishermen to become famous. Hardly likely. Besides if you want to explain the O.T. prophecies of Jesus' and then Jesus' fulfillment of them in the N.T. then please do.
Why do you denounce context? It's the most important thing. If you don't have context you have nothing. Literal Hell and figurative Hell? Explain.
@sports444life LOLOLOL at the old O.T prophecies and the NT fulfillment. That is SUCH a bad argument it proper made me lol. Honestly, i'm trying not to be rude but do you think about any of this critically.
So the OT was written with prophecies, and then the NT said they were fulfilled. Now lets try this again, which is the most likely:
A: these prophecies were fulfilled magically
b: That the people who wrote the NT had read the OT
@sports444life Second, most conservative scholars today admit that the gospels are not eyewitness accounts, but anonymous compositions written decades after the alleged events. As hearsay they are almost entirely worthless.
Before this you have to show that jesus even existed as well. If he did then there are many more sane and likely explanations to the resurrection. Swoon theory, hallucinations (such as with alien abducties) and fraud. You need to apply the same level of skepticism to
@sports444life To call the bible a fairy tale is laughable? But it is! Talking donkeys and snakes, global floods, people rising from the dead...these are fairy tale ideas and childish beliefs that people need to grow out of.
The bible is inaccurate and contradicts itself, coupled with the nonsense outlined in my former paragraph and that its been rehashed many times, doesn't make it very accurate.
@BeforeTheNoose REad the Bible. No one saw him rise from the dead! They saw he was gone and later saw him in bodily form. That is what the Bible says.
@BeforeTheNoose And how do you know that? Were you there? What is your evidence? Sorry I cannot have faith in your sayings since you don't seem to have any evidence.
@BeforeTheNoose Would you like to prove your "lies"? What evidence do you have? Do you expect us to believe you who may be much less qualified than Lee on faith? Sorry I cannot swallow your religion based on nothing. "Where's the beef?" as Clara said.
@BeforeTheNoose Also eyewitness accounts which are internally consistent ARE very good evidence. On top of that are the writings of Flavius Josephus who wrote about the times of Jesus as an outsider. There are over 1500 manuscripts which are externally consistent with each other written over different periods of time. That speaks to consistency. From TV example, if a person keeps the same story, they are probably telling truth but if it changes, then probably lying. Story is the same.
your comment is one of a childs mind frame.. i could easily comment back, because like you said in your comment, a Christian should do whatever it takes to save ones life if they truly believe he/she is going to hell.. in the Bible it tells us, if one is ignorant of the truth and closes his mind to your words, do not force it, it is there free will that chooses there destination.. so judging from your comment, and the youtube page were talking on, it looks like you already chose
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the WHOLE CREATION.
Eze 3:18 GOD SAID " When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require of your hand.
@JusJuiceIt You don't need to know anything about the bible see how its logically impossible to have free will when there is an omniscient god that knows the future. It only requires a basic understanding of logic and a minimal education...
Altho a survey in the US just showed that atheists know more about the Bible than christians in general...so i'm reasonably confident i know as much about the bible as you.
in response to your first paragraph, your very wrong, im not going to debate you though! not worth the time
in response to your second paragraph
"Altho a survey in the US just showed that atheists know more about the Bible than christians in general...so i'm reasonably confident i know as much about the bible as you."
just take 2 minutes to read that over again and try and understand how stupid that really is.. you dont even no me, and you assume you no more about the BIble
@JusJuiceIt "your very wrong, im not going to debate you though! not worth the time"
reads: you're wrong but i'm not going to say why, cos i can't.
I didn't need to take 2 minutes to read one paragraph believe it or not. Maybe you should read it again, as you clearly didn't understand it. Where did i assume i knew more about the bible than you? I didn't.
Its a fact tho, that most atheists do know more about the bible than Christians. Its why most of them lost their faith.
@BeforeTheNoose Jesus was an ANTI-church, ANTI-banker, kick-ass REVOLUTIONARY! He annoyed 'authorities' so much that they KILLED him. NOTHING'S changed!
Youre probably a Shiteheist sheep being led to the slaughter by BANKER-owned Peter Joseph, the history re-writer
PJ claims to be NON-religious like me! But PJ FORGOT to say he takes Satanism VERY seriously,- just like his BANKER pals- to the point where ALL his sources for 'AGAINDUMB' are satanist authors
@IdaSputum What the hell are you on about?! The only information i got from that last comment is that you have a problem with the functionality of the caps button.
then me because some pole in the states was taken.. if it takes you more then 2 mins to understand, just stop thinking about it and continue with something else..
i apologize, i worded something wrong.. i didnt mean to say "you dont even no me and you assume you no MORE about the Bible then me".. i mean to say "you dont even no me, and you assume you no AS MUCH as i do about the Bible"... once again, sorry
@JusJuiceIt ...because the bible is filled with contradictions, absurdities, brutal and barbaric promotion of killing, falsehoods, promotion of slavery and just the plain ridiculous.
You only have to watch an episode of the AE when a Christian phones in and the host points out a passage where God has commanded Jephthah to kill his daughter. The Christian, 9 times out of 10, will refuse to believe that is in the bible, even when it was pointed out to that silly bint on fox news...
i find this very interesting as we have talked in my Bible class all about "Is the Bible reliable?" We looked at several articles, people etc. and we talked about how the Bible has eyewitnesses to prove it's reliable. The Bible is reliable due to details, history, Dead Sea Scrolls' history etc. Our God is a God who doesn't make errors or mistakes. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
@gregrutz scientists admit there was a global flood, they just say it was a long long long time ago, so you gotta throw that one out, centre of the universe, does the bible say this, i've never seen it, if it does can you tell me where? and also the bible doesnt say the earth is 6 thousand years old genesis says in the begining god created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was without form, this is before day 1 of the creation, no where in the bible does it say the earths 6000 yrs old
again well done Lee Strobel...
6gunwalker 2 weeks ago
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This is what Ezekiel prophecies against Tyre in 26:14, "I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will NEVER be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD."
If one goes to Google Earth today one can see that Tyre is very much rebuilt and is a city of over 120,000 people.
This is an apparent prophecy fail.
wlemusic 1 month ago
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jesus is a swindler, he's absolutely fake, theres no god, god is fake just for comfortable human heart, who created god, if god exist, what make you think he only one,
jesus is a faker, who make many false miracle to trick people
JHON41696 1 month ago
ok, ok, i believe. you've convinced me. god likes the smell of burning flesh:
Numbers 28:
1 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Give this command to the Israelites. Tell them: ‘Bring me food offerings made by fire, for a smell that is pleasing to me, and be sure to bring them at the right time.’ 3 Say to them, ‘These are the offerings you must bring to the Lord: two male lambs, a year old, as a burnt offering each day.
castelgandalf 1 month ago
@castelgandalf you do realise in this text god is referring to the scent of sacrafice right? the food and meat offerings of the best of the israelites produce... today we only require jesus blood on our hearts as he is the ultimate lamb of god sacraficed for our sins... please dont read the bible like a 5 year old have some decentcy to extend yr wider knowlegde...
6gunwalker 2 weeks ago
@6gunwalker yes, i do realize he is refering to the scent of burning flesh offered as sacrifice. does that make god's liking it any less bizarre?
do you realize i'm responding to a video entitled: "The Bible Can Be Trusted."
i try to take people's claims and respond to them at face value, nonetheless, it's hard to set aside your willing suspension of disbelief when discussing a book of fairytales.
castelgandalf 2 weeks ago
@castelgandalf lol its funny how quickly you turn from understanding the biblical context from a 5 year old point of view to rationalist view lol im not gonna even attempt to try and explain the truthful relevence the bible holds to our lives, future and universe because you would rather see it as a hobbit book... good luck to you sir
6gunwalker 2 weeks ago
@6gunwalker
good call: don't even attempt it. the bible has about as much truth and relevance as the hobbit. well, not exactly. at least the hobbit had a well defined good guy and bad guy. in the bible, the homicidal psychopathic superbeing is yahweh, LOL!
tolkien gives us better moral guidelines than god:
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."
good luck with your wrathful god!
castelgandalf 2 weeks ago
he says he has a muslim friend lol muslims dont consider non muslims friends , period..as for them both debating , its kinda like ' my dad can kick your dads ass'
grumpyguts1967 3 months ago
I advise my friends to read the book by Maurice Bucaille: translated into Arabic and English: the Bible, Qur'a, and Science. U will understand what the Bible is and what the Qur'an is and to what extent they agree with scince.
Islamislawful 4 months ago
I highly doubt he has a muslim friend with whom he debates the credibility of the bible as opposed to the Quran. And what eyewitness accounts? The ones in the bible? Or ones that, like the bible, have been rewritten, misinterpreted, and translated time and time again for thousands of years? Sounds fishy.
Andromedonian 4 months ago
To everyone who does not believe that God is real, or that Jesus is the Son of God who was crucified, died, buried and rose for our sins..how do u
explain the filling of the holy spirit that Christians TODAY as myself have experienced and that is recorded in the bible? The filling of the Holy Spirit is a language that is a gift from God give 2 Christians. I received this gift over 10
SuperLoveofGod 4 months ago
@SuperLoveofGod Do you realize how easy it is to trick the human mind? Speaking as a former creationist, I once was so moved by "God's love" that I openly wept and thought my diabetes had been healed. Despite my unshakable faith and my insistence on not taking insulin, I got sick and almost had to go to the hospital by the next day. Turns out I wasn't healed and my "experience" was all in my head. Just be careful, I used to sound just like you.
RisqueRooster 1 month ago
@SuperLoveofGod It is all in your mind. Simple as that.
TheLawlbringer 3 weeks ago
Can someone tell me where I can find the eye witness accounts of God that he is talking about or is he just talking about the Bible?
Redrgon25 4 months ago 2
@Redrgon25 Josephus
emotimeroski345 3 months ago
@emotimeroski345 How can a man be an eye witness when he wasn't even born when Jesus died. If a Jesus did exist, he was believed to have died on the cross in the year 30 to 32 AD, Josephus wasn't even born until 37 AD.
Redrgon25 2 months ago
documentary evidence? like...
cattlexing 5 months ago
Oh sure, the fact that the church hand picked out verses from many books and most likely edited them (rather poorly, count the contridictions) is a VALID reason you can trust something from the same people who shove their nose into homosexual's lives and rights.
QuestionRenee 5 months ago
@DiscoRByrno Really I can't continue having this conversation with you, you clearly don't respect my beliefs. I have plenty to say about this topic, but not if it's a fight, so I'd rather not. Please, let's just leave it at that.
cottoncandy113 5 months ago
@DiscoRByrno Well for you it is the absolute default position. But for me the fact of 12 people dying for their faith and writing about it is plenty of proof. Also hearing about non- heresy claims of people seeing Jesus after he died just reassures it. (Emphasis on the hearing.) So my default is that Jesus is the son of God. I'd like to leave off on that note before this might turn on into a full on brawl.
cottoncandy113 5 months ago
@DiscoRByrno Ok, when I get the motivation to research all this I will lol. I've looked up some stuff about this topic before, but not enough to be able to site ALL of my facts. I can respect the fact your default is to reject ,I can understand. Thanks for your input :)
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@DiscoRByrno Please show me the facts that 515 in fact did not see Jesus, and show me the documents that are lies. All I can do is give you my word that I watched a documentary listing the documents of the 515 accounts, though I do not know how to find it again. Including the evidence I just gave you in the previous posts that is all I can give for now.
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@DiscoRByrno Mormonism was created by Joeseph Smith who was the only witness to these events. Many other ancient religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism don't have any evidence that they are the true religion. (Though I do respect them and find them culturally interesting.) But if you look at Christianity New and Old Testament there is evidence EVERYWHERE. Read next post ---->
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@DiscoRByrno I haven't researched this topic as thoroughly as Lee Strobel, but I do understand that the New Testament books in the Bible were written by people who were direct witness of Jesus's miracles. Then they ALL died for their faith. Why would they die for something they knew was false? And on top of that other religions don't have eye witnesses. The last prophet of Islam was Muhammad, and he was the only one who witnessed everything. Read next post ----->
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@DiscoRByrno It's a proven fact that Jesus simply existed, even in public schools they teach that o.0 And I think we can all agree about the fact that the body is dead after you die, so let's keep this argument about if Jesus existed or not, instead of me being too stupid to comprehend what I believe in. It's about the soul being alive after your body has died. And frankly even if you look up common sense you won't have a definite answer about your soul. Anyways, read next post --->
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@DiscoRByrno For Christianity it comes down to if Jesus existed and rose from the dead. It is proven he existed, but did he rise from the dead? If you research, you'll find there are 515 accounts of people seeing him alive after he died, and there are also several documents stating this. On top of that all the 12 disciples who are also historical figures and direct witnesses died for their faith.12 people would not die for something they didn't believe in.If that's not fact I don't know what is.
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
MY BOOK IS BETTER THAN YOUR BOOK !! Silly.
gregrutz 6 months ago
@TheDarvus I have Zero evidence for U. U may be just a nasty programmed robot spewing out comments from a data bank. So where is your evidence? It is easy to say to others, "let me see your evidence: Your problem may be that your bias does not allow you to hear the evidence. Regarding the patriarchs or any Biblical writings you obviously do not understand that the scrollwriters making one mistake means the whole scroll was thrown out. That is more accurate than the evening news.
7777reasons 6 months ago
@DiscoRByrno There is internal evidence in the Bible which is borne up by historians like Flavius Josephus. I have no evidence that you are not simply a nasty little robot programmed to make comments on YouTube on various topics. So I rest my case and myself. I am going to bed. Happy NoDay!
7777reasons 6 months ago
@7777reasons if u are still struggling with the Josephus "evidence" then I suggest you go and do some honest research instead of making derogatory comments to others. Are you being paid to be a twit? haha - your words not mine. Or are you one of these sad individuals who thinks he is doing gods work by being a twat to the unbelievers? No skin off your nose hey coz YOU are RIGHT and you aint gonna burn, so may as well stick your middle finger up at those who are
cattlexing 5 months ago
I doubt Lee Strobel has any Muslim friends over to his house to debate religion; but whatever. If promoting the accuracy of scripture is his ultimate goal then Strobel needs to promote his message to the bible translators and publishers who commonly discredit verses and scriptures throughout the bible.
On the other hand, if the goal is to make a buck or two off of book sales and speaking fees then he should just keep making this sales pitch to non-scientific, non-academic church audiences.
gsschoenfeld 6 months ago
@gsschoenfeld Oh please, you don't even know him. I've heard him talk live, and believe me he's sincere. Why don't you go shove a stick up your ass. It's people like you that take the most kindest and sincere people I know and in a couple of paragraphs make them look like shit because you don't know what the fuck your talking about. People like you literally make me feel sick.
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@cottoncandy113 Listen, there is nothing wrong with making a living on book sales and speaking fees. Nor is their anything wrong with promoting the accuracy of the scriptures. But ultimately I wish Strobel and others would carry their message back to the bible publishers at times. Perhaps he could start a petition to bring attention to some of the unsavory practices, or bring to attention that many of the people who translate the bible don't actually believe in it themselves.
gsschoenfeld 6 months ago
@gsschoenfeld You really made making a living off of book sales and speaking fees sound crude. I understand that you want Bible publishers to know about God, but Lee Strobel is making a HUGE difference in Atheists, Christians, and many other people's lives. If YOU don't like the fact that the Bible publishers don't know about Christ, then YOU should take the action instead of complaining about it on someone's video who has drastically and positively changed MANY people's lives.
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@cottoncandy113 I am taking action, by commenting on videos like these. I hope my comments help a lot of people who are searching for the truth. Once I build my army, then we will proceed to march on the publishers, demanding full disclosure of their theories and determine if they changed any of the wording in the bible at the request of their respective marketing departments. I've got to start somewhere, so I'm starting here. Sorry if that's inconvenient.
gsschoenfeld 6 months ago
@gsschoenfeld Taking action by posting comments on Youtube isn't much of a start. Why not blog or vlog about it maybe? People post comments here all the time, and honestly it usually only effects a few. I highly doubt that people are changing what the Bible says, first off just because they're not Christian doesn't mean they're not professional. And second, even if they do change words in the Bible which I highly doubt they will, Scholars and educated people will CLEARLY be able to tell.
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@cottoncandy113 Thanks for your concern regarding my methodology. It is the proverbial slow boat to china. But the one thing I've learned in life, is that the most effective way to change the world is one person at a time as they are willing to listen.
Words in the bible have changed, and yes the scholars can tell, but that doesn't mean they care. The bible used to promote the existence of dragons and unicorns. But modern scholars and ministry seems embarrassed to mention any of that today.
gsschoenfeld 6 months ago
@gsschoenfeld My point is really, I don't think you should be wasting your energy on people who change the Bible. I understand that there are different versions, but no ones trying to trick anybody. Do you have any proof even of people wrongfully changing the Bible?
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@cottoncandy113 Then let me ask you this. Do you believe the New World Translation published primarily for the Jehovah's Witnesses is an accurate and reliable translation? Or is it more likely that it has been tweaked and altered to support.
By their own legally binding testimony most modern bible publishers ADMIT they made non-factual changes to the text. They admit this when they claim a copyright, because you cannot copyright facts, true stories, or public information.
gsschoenfeld 6 months ago
@gsschoenfeld Though I do know what Jehova's Witnesses is, I've never read the New World Translation.Do you have any specific verses showing that they're outrageously untrue? Also can you show me a RELIABLE article or even video saying people are wrongfully changing the Bible?
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@cottoncandy113 Well can you show me a RELIABLE article or video saying people are rightfully changing the bible?
None of this is rocket science. All a person needs to do is take a little extra time to check the footnotes while reading their bible. They will soon discover they translators and publishers discredit many verses in the footnotes. Some even gerrymander entire verses in to the footnotes. See Luke 17:35 in an NIV, ESV, or NLT.
gsschoenfeld 6 months ago
@cottoncandy113 If it's ok to move verses in to the footnotes it should be perfectly fine for anyone else to just cross-out whatever verses they don't agree with. Maybe you're ultimately ok with that. But if it's not ok to cross-out verses then the publishers have some detaled explaintions to give. And churches should quit turning a blind-eye to that practice.
gsschoenfeld 6 months ago
@gsschoenfeld To me, it's not ok for people to do that, I'm just asking for an example of it. Anyways I don't think you should be yelling at publishers or Lee Strobel, but Jehova's Witnesses for doing this if they really are to an extreme extent that you're claiming. ( I really don't know if they are, that's why I'm asking you.)
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@cottoncandy113 You must be hyper-sensitive or something because I've not been yelling at anybody. But I have given you numerous examples. Let me enumerate them. A) How dragons and unicorns have been removed from the bible. B) The copyright which is subtly used by publishers to indicate their translation has been altered and now legally qualifies as fiction. and C) the methods of eliminating verses through the use of footnotes. You have yet to give any evidence to the contrary.
gsschoenfeld 6 months ago
@gsschoenfeld Oh my goodness you're an ass. When I say EXAMPLE I mean a LITERAL example. For EXAMPLE: Take a verse out of the Jehova's Witnesses Bible, and COMPARE it to one in the actual Bible. I can't just take your word for it, that's what I mean by EXAMPLE. I wasn't trying to prove you wrong, I was simply sharing my opinions and giving you a chance to state why you're right.
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@cottoncandy113 Despite some abusive things you've said to me, I've given reasonable answers to your questions. Maybe you don't agree with them, but if I'm grossly wrong you should be able to bring a reasonable challenge to the floor for conversation. Instead you've given me further abuse in the form of passive-aggressive dismissals and insults.
gsschoenfeld 6 months ago
@cottoncandy113 cont.
It appears you do not wish to have a conversation about apologetic evidences or share a message of genuine faith. You're just a punk. I've given you ample room to demonstrate otherwise, but your true colors are evident. I hope someday you learn the humility you need to grow as a person and behave as an adult.
gsschoenfeld 6 months ago
@gsschoenfeld I'm not being passive aggressive, just flat out aggressive, you're the one being passive. I really hope you don't act this way in real life because you come off as a self-righteous ass. I'm not trying to prove you wrong in that area, I sincerely would just like to know. That's why I'm asking you to take a literal verse from the Jehova's Witnesses Bible, and compare to one in a non Jehova's Witnesses Bible. Read next post----> Or read previous post if you read this first <---
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@gsschoenfeld I'm not trying to abuse you, you but you are simply BEGGING for it.You come off as an ass hole. If you don't want to be treated like one then don't make comments like the one you said that started this whole conversation, or don't say rude and persnickety comments that make the person you're talking with lower than you. If you don't want to be treated like an ass, it's simple, don't act like one.
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@gsschoenfeld I'm sorry for cussing at you. It seems when I'm polite about controversial things, people just walk all over me, but the one time I just lost it and cussed you out, you didn't cuss back at me. Thank you for still being polite :)
cottoncandy113 6 months ago
@gsschoenfeld You may doubt but you have NO EVIDENCE. Or do you?
7777reasons 6 months ago
@gsschoenfeld I think you should stick to the issue which is about Lee Strobel and what he discovered. Your broken violin regarding scriptures gets boring and is not relevant.
7777reasons 6 months ago
@7777reasons The correct terminology is a "broken record", or a "tiny violin". Next time you think about challenging me don't. You appear to be lacking the required intellectual bandwidth to engage these conversations.
gsschoenfeld 6 months ago
@gsschoenfeld So oh mighty one I am not to question you? Are you the almighty I have heard about or should I look for another? Your arrogant attitude of superiority trumps your civility. If you make such snap judgements about people could you perhaps have done the same about Lee Strobel & perhaps atheism? It seems like a trait that you have from the evidence you have given me. And by the way, intellect doesn't fit in bandwidths. If yours does, go to another supplier who gives more. I have.
7777reasons 6 months ago
Pro tip: eye witnesses are not evidence.
Treyb3yond 6 months ago
@Treyb3yond Perhaps Judge Judy could help you with this? In a court of law, you are way off the mark. IN the court of evidence yes they are. Those who have seen a place or an event can testify about it.
7777reasons 6 months ago
@7777reasons Someone testifying on a major event or happening is not enough for a conviction.
Treyb3yond 6 months ago
YET AGAIN Peter Joseph is proved to be a LIAR with a "Scientific Method" of LYING!
SHITEGEIST AGAINDUMB is NWO disinfo claiming to be NON-religious yet PJs' main sources are from renowned Satanist authors using distorted 'MYTHS' from1000+yrs AFTER Jesus!
IM NOTreligious
JESUS IS NOT RELIGION. - He's a HISTORICAL ANTI-BANKER, REVOLUTIONARY MAN!
SHITEtHEIST takes religion of Satanism VERY seriously! Venus=Star of Satan Bankers quest for CONTROL isNOT helped if people know of a REVOLUTIONARY!
IdaSputum 7 months ago
I think this guy is full of S**T
paulypooper2 8 months ago
OMG u believe in a book, good for u -- keep it to urself
MrTattooConnection 9 months ago
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isaacmannion 9 months ago
@isaacmannion my bad -- u believe in the same book, guess ur right im the idiot -- dear god please dont sling poop in my face, I know ur older than time, and since u like to sling human poop, It would have to be a just and righteous act, but please learn slinging poop is stupid, and you dont want to be known as the stupid, poop slinging god, do you????
MrTattooConnection 9 months ago
@MrTattooConnection well he wasnt knocking on your door,hes allowed to put up a video if he wants
lilbeaveymac 9 months ago
excuse me guys, but...may i cut in? I'd like to point you to walter veith's video series "a spade unearths the truth", since most of you here seems to be seekers of historic-archeological facts that would validate/disprove the bible. well...there you have it.
Peace!
MichaelSparkz 9 months ago
Lee Strobel is blind and arrogant, and he ought to stop spreading lies.
I watched the Case for Christ and almost had a freaking stress related stroke.
This guy has so much horse shit spewing from his lips it is a tad ridiculous.
xBlackSeedxghost 10 months ago
@xBlackSeedxghost
Okay you're not being logical, You are just insulting the man without telling everyone why you think what he said was *Bull* Did you even sit down and really watch *The case for christ* and listen, instead of just hearing him and judging constantly. You should be more open to other opinions from people and doing your own research to prove it wrong or to know more.
EternalServant71 10 months ago
@EternalServant71 what he said would only NOT be seen as bull by someone with a biased opinion.
And I did listen to what he had to say. The entire lot of "evidence" in the "Case for Christ" is based on biblical writings. Nothing he mentioned in his documentary can be proven without a doubt so he DOES NOT have the right to say that Christians have an "unfair advantage" or should play the "truth" card.
xBlackSeedxghost 10 months ago
@xBlackSeedxghost You are incorrect when you say "everything is based on Biblical writings" which have been shown to be very accurate and internally consistent. Read about the dead sea scrolls. Can you prove that he is wrong without a doubt? My friend you are asking the impossible. Do any of us know anything without a doubt? Even illusionists can trick your eyes, and your other senses are sometimes fooled. It is the preponderance of evidence as in a court of law. God loves you.
7777reasons 6 months ago
@EternalServant71 ALSO Archeology has proven that some places mentioned in the bible existed at a point in time, but that does not provide merit to ALL biblical writings. That's like saying the north pole is real so Santa MUST be real. ALSO I do not need to prove ANYTHING wrong but people who say they are right need to provide something valid to prove they are indeed so.
xBlackSeedxghost 10 months ago
@xBlackSeedxghost Of course not. But it provides merit for that one does it not? Your example about the North Pole has gone south I am afraid. So since you say you are right, then what evidence do you have? Let us use your own standards.
7777reasons 6 months ago
@7777reasons Ugh seeing you missed every single point I made AND put words in my mouth by saying that I "said I was right" (about what? Where did I say I was right?) I am not going to even entertain you. Go get a book on reading and comprehension, then attempt to respond to my statements.
xBlackSeedxghost 6 months ago
@xBlackSeedxghost Your ludicrous comments which lack any credulity or truth are simply common insults rather than a comment about anything to be taken serious. If you think he should be quiet, have you ever thought of NOT being a hypocrite and being quiet yourself? Your emotional reactions suggest you should see an MD rather soon. Why don't you come back when you have something intelligent to say?
7777reasons 6 months ago
"he proved it by returning from the dead" "documentary evidence" lol!! strobel certainly found his way to make money - "we have truth on our side" my god, he should feel ashamed
cattlexing 11 months ago
@cattlexing So how do you make yours? Are you being paid to be a twit? Your obnoxious insults are just that. Your mockery perhaps deserves to be mocked. You present no evidence just biased beliefs which your programming has told your brain was sufficient. But there are those of us who want evidence not just easy mockery which is childish.
7777reasons 6 months ago
no other book is like the bible? What about all that mythology before it that pretty much has similar or exactly similar stories? sorry, but i'm not buying what your selling mr.stroebel.
Requiemxtoxinnocence 1 year ago
@Requiemxtoxinnocence No problem. He isn't selling. It's free! And you wouldn't have enough money to buy even if it was for sale.
7777reasons 6 months ago
@7777reasons He is clearly trying to sell it, just like most evangelists. Ah yes it's free to ignore evidence and reason, and who needs money anyway when you can become a robot and give 10% of your earnings to a church :D. One more thing if it's free why would I not have enough money to buy it if it was for sale? see how stupid that sounds?
Requiemxtoxinnocence 6 months ago
this is the biggest peice of brainwashing bullshit that exists
enternalinferno 1 year ago
@enternalinferno Genius!
CALICOTV301 11 months ago 5
@CALICOTV301 thanks man! :D go athiests!
enternalinferno 11 months ago
@enternalinferno Perhaps you have been living on the farm too long and can only use vulgar common language with no evidence just mockery. Get a life. There IS life beyond your BULL*
7777reasons 6 months ago
@hyru99 Unless you go hiking and a bear eats your face off! I bet you forgot all about this post from 2 years ago. Silly youtuber.
armbar21 1 year ago
Truth? ok if you "believe" so...I love the Strobmister hes funny!
wachnathan 1 year ago
strobel is selling a product, which will sell, coz people want to buy it - logic and reason be damned
cattlexing 1 year ago
@cattlexing That is your biased opinion to avoid discussing the issues he raises. Look up the definition of logical fallacy and you will see your name on it. God loves you anyway.
7777reasons 6 months ago
The bible is wrong about a global flood, what else?
gregrutz 1 year ago
@gregrutz Where did the Bible ever say there was a global flood? You have to understand that we each have a world which revolves around us. You may not know the world of the Pygmy or the Aboriginal of Australia and you obviously do not know the WORLD of the ancients. It was the part of the world which they knew. You swallowed the camel.
7777reasons 6 months ago
@7777reasons Look up ''NOAH'' dummy.
gregrutz 6 months ago
Eyewitness accounts are the least reliable form of evidence. We know this from modern day court trials and all the eyewitnesses who have seen ghosts and aliens.
It hasn't been confirmed by archeology at all, so thats just a lie.
It contradicts reality, science, itself, full of mistakes and inaccuracies, has been edited throughout the years and has many different versions.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose 500+ eyewitnesses in groups. Yup that's not reliable.
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life For a start its not 500+ eyewitnesses, its a book written by someone that is attesting that there were 500 eyewitnesses.
Secondly, i can think of loads of real life examples where large groups of people are constantly 'tricked' or fooled. All the people that think statues of the virgin mary are really crying anyone?
Try again dude.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose I'll believe the historical evidence I see. And besides all these 500 people weren't together, they were in separate places at separate times. Yup all tricked into believing he rose from the dead. And then a Church springs up right after as Strobel stated, ya definitely just coincidence or a fraud.
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life Errr, you contradicted yourself in your own post. So the 500 people weren't together...but they all saw him rise from the dead? Which is it? Are they all eyewitnesses, or are they all in separate places at separate times? It can't be both.
If you are willing to believe that a dead body rose again and became alive based on the writings in a book that thinks the earth is flat you'll believe anything.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose Lol, it's funny how you try to instantly prove me wrong by saying i'm contradicting myself. There were 500 eyewitnesses who saw him, many of them talking and touching him after his resurrection, this doesn't mean they were all at the same place. Jesus visited many people and places before he went back to Heaven. No contradiction. It believes the Earth is flat eh? Isaiah 40:22: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth"... That means it's definitely flat!
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life Oh you foolish, foolish person. The earth isn't a circle, its a sphere. Circles are flat.
Oh so these 500 people didn't see him rise from the dead then? So whats your point?
Whatever it is its still meaningless. We don't have 500 eyewitnesses we have a book claiming there were once 500 eyewitnesses. And as said, there are 1000's of people who think they saw statues of virgin mary crying blood. Eyewitnesses are poor forms of evidence.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose Secular sources also claim Jesus' death and resurrection. His tomb was empty. And to say the Bible is basically a fairy tale is laughable. It's the most accurate historical book we have to date. Keep calling me foolish though, it's okay, I can deal with that =). So eyewitnesses who saw something and then decided to live their life for that thing that wasn't real isn't miraculous? People won't just go die for something that they don't fully believe to be real.
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life You've said so many silly things! Firstly what people believe to be real has no bearing on what is real. Secondly people dying for their beliefs provides NO evidence for anything. Muslims die for their beliefs, by your logic that makes their religion correct!
What are these secular sources for the resurrection? A tomb being empty isn't evidence of this. Really, if you went into the grave yard and saw an empty tomb would you conclude some rose from the dead and walked out!?
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose Yes, if it was heavily guarded by Roman guards and a huge freakin' stone was put in front of the tomb I think that's pretty miraculous that the tomb was empty. Celsus (178 A.D.), did not deny Jesus' existence. Mara Bar-Serapion (Post 70 A.D), claims Jews killed their wise King and were punished and driven from their land. Flavius Josephus (37 - 100 A.D.), claimed that Jesus rose on the third day. If you don't put context to any work it will contradict itself. Contradiction cant..
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life Yeah but you're using the bible to prove the bible, so again you provide no evidence. At least no where near enough to believe someone rose from the dead. What evidence would you require to believe that someone did that today? It would have to be alot of water tight evidence.
Instead what you have is a book with loads of mistakes in it, barbaric rituals and editing, with clear motivation to control people. Very weak evidence.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose I didn't use the Bible to prove itself... I gave you 3 sources outside the Bible. Most conservative scholars? Can I have some names please, and the percentages of what "most" means. Also, we have manuscripts and writings that date back to 20-30 years of Jesus' death. The manuscripts haven't been changed. "Clear motivation to control people" maybe God's will for us... not to control us. Who is trying to "control" us besides God? I'm not tied to the Church. "No two Christians...
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life Firstly they weren't evidence lines for the resurrection. Secondly, don't use a red herring and start just trying to sight people who thought a person called jesus existed. You have to be able to provide evidence for the existence of the jesus of the bible - the one that apparently did miracles.
Thirdly, saying "celsus did not deny jesus" is hardly compelling evidence for either jesus or the resurrection, and all he said was that if people are going to believe in the pagan..
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose So we are supposed to believe what you say on Faith but a book that millions of people have believed and has changed their lives for the better we are supposed to believe is Sesame Street? Try some logic.
7777reasons 6 months ago
@BeforeTheNoose be proved in the Bible. Sure you can try to be bring about contradictions, but that's most likely because you aren't reading it in context. Context is key. You completely deny anything supernatural to ever being able to happen so you are already setting limits. If you already have pre-conceived ideas it is impossible to reason.
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life Oh its the good ol' out of context argument. Its a shame no two christians can ever decide what is in context and out - hence why we have 1000000's of demoniations, and no two christians believing the same thing.
There is very little historical evidence for the resurrection outside the bible itself. There for you are reliant on the bible to prove itself. The first problem with that is obvious i'm sure. You can use Lord of the Rings to prove itself.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose can ever decide what is in context and out"... Another generalization. Sure, many different denominations exist, but many of the churches are just set up differently and do not teach an altered message. If you go to any Christian church, they will teach that Jesus' died and rose again on the 3rd day, the trinity, love and honor God and love your neighbor. If they teach these things they are a Christian church. It's no question that Jesus existed... the claim is that he never...
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life literal hell and those who don't....guess what? They can't both be right. I always find the context argument a barrel of lols. Its funny that people get to choose the context of a passage, which just so happens to fit with their personal world view. You'd think God would make it clearer.
PSA 92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
ISA 57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."
^picked a random contradiction
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose rose from the dead. It's a fact that he was a real person, people just refuse to believe he rose from the dead because it was "impossible". Also, as far as the authenticity of the Bible is concerned, there is no reason for all these different authors to compose a mass conspiracy. Did you know there were around 40 authors of the Bible who lived on 3 different continents? It would be the largest conspiracy on Earth. It just wouldn't make sense.
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life ..mythology then its no more stupid to believe in jesus. Again with Mara, like i've already said - being a martyr does not mean there is evidence. Islam has martyrs as well you know. His 'evidence' is basically just heresy again.
But as said, lets not move the goal posts. You need to provide evidence that someone rose from the dead! Please do so. Even if you actually had 500 people now who said they saw this happen, it would still not be sufficient...
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose Haha, what is sufficient for you? YOU have to see him rise? Or would you just say he wasn't dead. As far as i'm concerned, the Bible is trustworthy, there is no reason for the disciples to tell lies and then write these things down and make billions of people follow them. They wanted to spread the truth. Yes, there are martyrs in Islam... Because they truly believe it, however Islam is just like every other religion besides christianity. As long as you do more good works...
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life Well, as we know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The nay say of some sheep herders, which was then written in a book long after the event is hardly evidence at all - we don't even know if anyone did see the event.
Its really very simple and i'm not sure why you are getting confused. Someone tells you they saw a man rise from the dead, do you:
A: Think he is mad
B: Think he was trick/delusional
C: It actually happened
C is clearly the least likely.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose However, yes people may have thought this but does it explain how peoples lives were changed a whole 180 degrees? Complete skeptics turned into fervent believers?
Okay, number of people doesn't matter, but you still reject eyewitness accounts because you believe the Bible to be inaccurate?
No, definitely not ignorant of it's contents, I just don't know where you are pulling these things from...
Yes, I have actually thought about that, and no there was no motive...
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life "Complete skeptics turned into fervent believers?" Firstly evidence of this is needed, and secondly they were obviously not skeptics if they were convinced by such weak evidence. Its like Kirk Cammeron saying he was a devout atheist. Nonsense.
"reject eyewitness accounts because you believe the Bible to be inaccurate?" No. I reject eye witness accounts alone in many case, such as alien sightings, loc ness monster, etc. And as said they are not considered reliable in a court of
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@sports444life "No, definitely not ignorant of it's contents, I just don't know where you are pulling these things from..." from the bible dude. You should read it without the rose glasses. It promotes slavery, stoning of children and women, rape, human sacrifice and mindless killing. Also jesus believed in infinite punishment for finite crimes, which is morally bankrupt.
Right, please try to think about this logically and open minded. I doubt it was some massive conspiracy involving..
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose the time that we have. He gives us plenty of time to accept or reject him. If we don't accept him in 5 years, or 50 years, why would we accept him in 1000 years? And say you die and are judged and go to Hell and then wish you were in Heaven, why would you wish you were in Heaven, to stop the pain or to be close to God? Most likely just to stop the pain. God wants people who love him, not people who are selfish.
sports444life 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose Seriously though, what would be the motive behind some sheepherders and fishermen to all conspire together to make as many people follow them as they could? There is no motive, it makes no sense. So, to say that the N.T. writers just made up Jesus' and his fulfilled prophecies is laughable. Almost everyone acknowledges Jesus' was a real person, I can't remember if you said he was or not.
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life law. People lie, people get tricked, people's mind tricks them especially when they want to believe something really badly and some people are delusional. This is why.
Also i'd like to note that you are again using the bible as prove of jesus, who was only known from....the bible. You can't use the bible to prove the bible. Also its likely that the accounts were not written by eyewitnesses.
But anyway the discussions on whether a man called Jesus existed are a red herring.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose I don't think someone dying and people seeing him dead and then seeing him alive later is weak evidence. Yes, eye witness accounts can be faulty, however, what makes an eyewitness account valid? Saying that eye witness accounts are inaccurate just because something seems unlikely or impossible is already counting God out. A lot of people in the Bible must have been delusional =) and they definitely must have been delusional if they started a church!
sports444life 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose How is that a red herring? He existed, it's not diverting the attention lol. The Bible already proves itself because it's the word of God. But, I guess that is my opinion. The Bible is an extraordinary book, it's one of a kind and is definitely the most controversial. I wonder why that is. "Likely", that's speculation. They were written by men who were close to Jesus and the disciples. You are already claiming that nothing "magical" can happen. I don't like the word magic so...
sports444life 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose lets use the word supernatural. You can't count the supernatural out and you can't have the same way of looking at something supernatural as you would something ordinary. It doesn't work. And Jesus was God so of course he could do these things. The evidence is the Bible. What evidence would you like, photographs? Maybe some video? Even then you would still be skeptical. The point is we have the Bible which is the word of God and makes claims that were fulfilled. I can say this...
sports444life 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose because it hasn't been changed and is accurate in it's dates. Also, we also have the most evidence of it due to archaelogical finds. Just because there are harsh judgments and bad things in a book does not mean the author of that book is an evil person. He is an author describing what happens and how things should be. You are referring to O.T. tradition and law which was very strict and much different than today's society. Infinite punishment is only fair if we reject him in...
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life Because i can fully believe that someone called jesus existed, probably alot of people called jesus. And i can believe that some people may have considered one of them to be a messiah. But you're arguing on whether a man magically came back from the dead, walked on water etc, for which there is pretty much no evidence for outside the bible.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@sports444life everyone in the entire world. People will just believe this stuff with out much evidence or thinking about it, just like today with the likes of johnothan edwards etc. There is no massive conspiracy that every one who believes in that prat are in on. They genuinely believe it, its just their reasons for believing it are bad.
However back then it was even worse, because people knew less about reality, science was conceived, and there was no access to information like
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose Definitely not a conspiracy lol. I don't think my reasons for believing are bad. I have evidence for it, and that's enough for me. If the Bible is the word of God then it wouldn't lie right? Sure i'm using the Bible to prove the Bible however if the book is right can't in stand on it's own?
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life *science WASN'T conceived* - in previous
..we have today, such as the internet. I mean when i was young i used to believe this as well, and day to day people wouldn't question anything, i wouldn't think too much about it and if something seemed illogical or stupid i'd try and justify it. That would have probably continued throughout my life if it wasn't for the internet and books, although it started to become obvious when i was 12 and realised not every religion can be right
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@sports444life No, not every acknowledges jesus was real at all - not jesus of the bible anyway. Infact the largest proportion of the world don't. And the ones who do don't possess any convincing evidence.
Honestly mate, even you must see what you're saying is grasping at straws? You have a book which claims things will happen...then much later another book is written that says these things have, and the first answer you go to is it was magic? Not that the second book was written in
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@sports444life in light of the first? You've just thrown logical and reason right out the window there.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@sports444life Going by your logic then Islam is right because you have many extremists blowing themselves up and killing tons of people and hundreds of thousands or more following it. Just because people follow something and are willing to die for it does not make it true.
slickwick45 1 year ago
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@slickwick45 Good point. However how many Christians do you see blowing themselves up?
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life Billions of people following this belief is not evidence. How many tiimes! The same argument can be applied to other religions, Hinduism must be true as it has loads of followers. Argumentum ad populum. Stupid argument. Everyone used to believe the world was flat as well....you're point?
In fact we can just use your silly argument back at you, only around 33% of the world are Christians, so that means that over 60% don't believe in that fairy tale, ergo its not real.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose Than bad, you will get to Heaven. And then 72 virgins. I wonder what happens to women?
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life What are you on about regards islam? You can't just refute that point be saying "islam is like every other religion beside christianity" and claim thats the point answered.
Yeah islam has bad teachings, but your bible has just as many awful ones - and in many ways some of the verses about the inferiority of women are worse. Have you even read your bible?! U seems very ignorant of its contents..like most christians
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@sports444life ..why? Because so far we've witnessed no one rise from the grave, and we know people are tricked and are delusional all the time. Magic shows, alien sightings, people who think that god has appeared in a cheese sandwich etc. So its far more likely that the event didn't happen, and a load of people were just lead to believe it did.
You think that all the denominations believe the same thing?! Please, that is an outright lie. Straight away i can think of ones who believe in a
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose So Jesus' resurrection was a magic trick? And it's tricked billions of people over the years? It was all a conspiracy for some fishermen to become famous. Hardly likely. Besides if you want to explain the O.T. prophecies of Jesus' and then Jesus' fulfillment of them in the N.T. then please do.
Why do you denounce context? It's the most important thing. If you don't have context you have nothing. Literal Hell and figurative Hell? Explain.
sports444life 1 year ago
@sports444life LOLOLOL at the old O.T prophecies and the NT fulfillment. That is SUCH a bad argument it proper made me lol. Honestly, i'm trying not to be rude but do you think about any of this critically.
So the OT was written with prophecies, and then the NT said they were fulfilled. Now lets try this again, which is the most likely:
A: these prophecies were fulfilled magically
b: That the people who wrote the NT had read the OT
mmmmmm....difficult one.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@sports444life Second, most conservative scholars today admit that the gospels are not eyewitness accounts, but anonymous compositions written decades after the alleged events. As hearsay they are almost entirely worthless.
Before this you have to show that jesus even existed as well. If he did then there are many more sane and likely explanations to the resurrection. Swoon theory, hallucinations (such as with alien abducties) and fraud. You need to apply the same level of skepticism to
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@sports444life your bible that you do to all the other religious texts.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@sports444life To call the bible a fairy tale is laughable? But it is! Talking donkeys and snakes, global floods, people rising from the dead...these are fairy tale ideas and childish beliefs that people need to grow out of.
The bible is inaccurate and contradicts itself, coupled with the nonsense outlined in my former paragraph and that its been rehashed many times, doesn't make it very accurate.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose REad the Bible. No one saw him rise from the dead! They saw he was gone and later saw him in bodily form. That is what the Bible says.
7777reasons 6 months ago
@BeforeTheNoose And how do you know that? Were you there? What is your evidence? Sorry I cannot have faith in your sayings since you don't seem to have any evidence.
7777reasons 6 months ago
@BeforeTheNoose Would you like to prove your "lies"? What evidence do you have? Do you expect us to believe you who may be much less qualified than Lee on faith? Sorry I cannot swallow your religion based on nothing. "Where's the beef?" as Clara said.
7777reasons 6 months ago
@BeforeTheNoose Also eyewitness accounts which are internally consistent ARE very good evidence. On top of that are the writings of Flavius Josephus who wrote about the times of Jesus as an outsider. There are over 1500 manuscripts which are externally consistent with each other written over different periods of time. That speaks to consistency. From TV example, if a person keeps the same story, they are probably telling truth but if it changes, then probably lying. Story is the same.
7777reasons 6 months ago
IF you really believed that hell was real then you would be out preaching 24/7 with no sleep !!!
if you really look at every sinner as someone who is headed to hell then you would have an adrenaline rush to find out the quickest way to save them
the only problem is NO christian truly believes in hell because they life testifies that they don't
do you look and speak to unsaved people like this?
you soon force your self to forget that I said this
Dwrancho144 1 year ago
@Dwrancho144
your comment is one of a childs mind frame.. i could easily comment back, because like you said in your comment, a Christian should do whatever it takes to save ones life if they truly believe he/she is going to hell.. in the Bible it tells us, if one is ignorant of the truth and closes his mind to your words, do not force it, it is there free will that chooses there destination.. so judging from your comment, and the youtube page were talking on, it looks like you already chose
JusJuiceIt 1 year ago
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@JusJuiceIt
Matthew 16:25
For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.
If there is a bomb in the building then why dont you tell all the people in the building ?
stop trying to save your own life and lose your life for the sake of the gospel
Dwrancho144 1 year ago
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@JusJuiceIt
Mark 16:15
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the WHOLE CREATION.
Eze 3:18 GOD SAID " When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require of your hand.
Dwrancho144 1 year ago
@JusJuiceIt You can't have free will if the god of the bible exists...sorry.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose
you no nothing about the Bible, if you did you wouldn't of said something as stupid as that, wow.. ahaha
JusJuiceIt 1 year ago
@JusJuiceIt You don't need to know anything about the bible see how its logically impossible to have free will when there is an omniscient god that knows the future. It only requires a basic understanding of logic and a minimal education...
Altho a survey in the US just showed that atheists know more about the Bible than christians in general...so i'm reasonably confident i know as much about the bible as you.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose
in response to your first paragraph, your very wrong, im not going to debate you though! not worth the time
in response to your second paragraph
"Altho a survey in the US just showed that atheists know more about the Bible than christians in general...so i'm reasonably confident i know as much about the bible as you."
just take 2 minutes to read that over again and try and understand how stupid that really is.. you dont even no me, and you assume you no more about the BIble
JusJuiceIt 1 year ago
@JusJuiceIt "your very wrong, im not going to debate you though! not worth the time"
reads: you're wrong but i'm not going to say why, cos i can't.
I didn't need to take 2 minutes to read one paragraph believe it or not. Maybe you should read it again, as you clearly didn't understand it. Where did i assume i knew more about the bible than you? I didn't.
Its a fact tho, that most atheists do know more about the bible than Christians. Its why most of them lost their faith.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose amen brother!
cattlexing 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose Jesus was an ANTI-church, ANTI-banker, kick-ass REVOLUTIONARY! He annoyed 'authorities' so much that they KILLED him. NOTHING'S changed!
Youre probably a Shiteheist sheep being led to the slaughter by BANKER-owned Peter Joseph, the history re-writer
PJ claims to be NON-religious like me! But PJ FORGOT to say he takes Satanism VERY seriously,- just like his BANKER pals- to the point where ALL his sources for 'AGAINDUMB' are satanist authors
PJs 'Scientific Method of LYING'!
IdaSputum 7 months ago
@IdaSputum What the hell are you on about?! The only information i got from that last comment is that you have a problem with the functionality of the caps button.
BeforeTheNoose 7 months ago
@BeforeTheNoose
then me because some pole in the states was taken.. if it takes you more then 2 mins to understand, just stop thinking about it and continue with something else..
JusJuiceIt 1 year ago
@BeforeTheNoose
i apologize, i worded something wrong.. i didnt mean to say "you dont even no me and you assume you no MORE about the Bible then me".. i mean to say "you dont even no me, and you assume you no AS MUCH as i do about the Bible"... once again, sorry
JusJuiceIt 1 year ago
@JusJuiceIt ...because the bible is filled with contradictions, absurdities, brutal and barbaric promotion of killing, falsehoods, promotion of slavery and just the plain ridiculous.
You only have to watch an episode of the AE when a Christian phones in and the host points out a passage where God has commanded Jephthah to kill his daughter. The Christian, 9 times out of 10, will refuse to believe that is in the bible, even when it was pointed out to that silly bint on fox news...
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
@JusJuiceIt ... that killing, murder, rape and slavery are in the bible she just responds with "not in my bible!"
Congratulations Ingram, you've just made a complete prat of yourself on national TV, cos it is in your bible, you just ain't read it.
BeforeTheNoose 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Dwrancho144
so i care less what you think, i dont need to do whatever it takes to save you from hell
JusJuiceIt 1 year ago
i find this very interesting as we have talked in my Bible class all about "Is the Bible reliable?" We looked at several articles, people etc. and we talked about how the Bible has eyewitnesses to prove it's reliable. The Bible is reliable due to details, history, Dead Sea Scrolls' history etc. Our God is a God who doesn't make errors or mistakes. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Sarah93656 1 year ago
How many times does science have to prove the bible wrong?
gregrutz 1 year ago
@gregrutz Name me one time this happened please.
soulja3001 1 year ago
@soulja3001 Geology proves there was no global flood.
Galileo proved the earth was not the center of the universe.
Astronomey proves the earth is not 6000 years old.
gregrutz 1 year ago
@gregrutz scientists admit there was a global flood, they just say it was a long long long time ago, so you gotta throw that one out, centre of the universe, does the bible say this, i've never seen it, if it does can you tell me where? and also the bible doesnt say the earth is 6 thousand years old genesis says in the begining god created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was without form, this is before day 1 of the creation, no where in the bible does it say the earths 6000 yrs old
soulja3001 1 year ago
@soulja3001 We did not all come off a boat. The church put Galileo under house arrest for showing the earth is not the center of anything.
''the earth was without form'' What does that mean?
gregrutz 1 year ago