800 Meters - Steve Cram vs Joachim Cruz - Zurich, 1985.mp4

[TheEctomorph]

[Continuing on from my previous 'post' about the future progression of the 800m world record] away now. Funnily enough, though, the late Ron Pickering thought that the elusive 1:40 barrier would be broken - by at least one athlete - before the end of the 20th century. At any rate, that was what he thought back in the 1970's (It is possible that he may have changed his mind - about the possibility of an 800m runner breaking 1:40 before the millennium - later on in his life.)

[TheEctomorph]

Twenty-seven years after setting his 800 metres PB (1:41.77), big Joaquim Cruz is still one of the fastest half-milers in history. In fact, only three men (David Rushida, Wilson Kipketer and Sebastian Coe] have ever run the 800m in a faster time than Cruz.

Although the 6 foot 2" Brazilian never improved on the personal best time (1:41.77) that he set in 1984 - at just 21 years of age - I think that he deserves to be considered one of the greatest 800 metres runners of the 20th century.

[TheEctomorph]

[Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Joaquim Cruz]: Miller - predicted that the tall, long-striding Brazilian middle-distance star would break Coe's world record (which had been set in June 1981, and stood at 1:43.73). However, Cruz failed, by some distance, to beat or equal Coe's mark during the 1985 season. After '85, he remained a world-class 800 metres runner for several years ..... but for some reason never again returned to the vintage form that he had shown at the LA Olympics.

[TheEctomorph]

It really was surprising that Stevie Cram managed to get the better of big Joaquim Cruz in that 800m race, back in '85. Twelve months earlier, Cruz had triumphed at that distance in the Olympic Games, beating Sebastian Coe by a substantial 4-and-a-half metres. What is more, he came very close to taking away Coe's outstanding world record a couple of weeks after the LA Olympics in 1984.

When the 1985 athletics season began, many knowledgeable pundits - including Coe's biographer, Mr David

[deano27671]

@TheEctomorph Yes, but the Cruz of 84 was a very different animal to the Cruz of 85. The Cruz of LA ran the last 200m in his 1:43.00 in 25.2. In this race in Zurich 85, off a very similar pace (51.0 at 400m here, as opposed to 51.2 in LA) he could only manage 26.2, and he had the inside rail here. This Zurich race was a one off, whereas the Olympic final was at the end of 4 fast races in 4 days. Even a peak Cram (here or from Commonwealths of 86) would NEVER have beaten a Cruz of late 84.

[deano27671]

The thing about Cruz is that like Ryun and Ovett, he had matured physically very early, breaking the junior WR with 1:44.3 in 1981, aged 18. And like Ryun & Ovett, he didn't improve beyond the age of 22. Yes, he had his fair share of injury problems in 86 & 87, but I don't think he would have improved much more.

[deano27671]

The fact that he wasn't as fast as Coe over 400m (45.6 from standing start in relay) and nowhere near Coe in terms of endurance (2:14.09 to Coe's 2:12.18 over 1000m, and 3:34.63 to Coe's 3:29.77 over 1500m), tends to back up my belief that if Cruz could run 1:41.77 with 3 concerted attempts, (with good rabbits and good fields pushing him from behind), then Coe would have been quite a bit faster than his 1:41.73 in 81, had he chased the record later in the season.

[deano27671]

The gap between Cruz & Coe in LA was inflated by about a metre or two by the fact that Coe collided with Jones with about 90m to go, when they clashed elbows. It isn't obvious from the side angle, but the BBC showed a front angle at the time and they definitely collided, just at the point when Coe was about to make his kick. He said at the time that he was knocked off his stride and lost a couple of metres, before recovering and making a surge away from Jones in the last 30m.

[deano27671]

He wouldn't have caught Cruz that day, but it would've been closer; perhaps 1:43.3/1:43.4 for Coe. When one also adds in the fact that Coe ran slightly wide of Cruz on all the bends, then they were actually evenly matched in LA. Coe had to use the rounds of the 8 & 15 to bring himself to a peak (as cyclists do) due to lack of training earlier in year (after illness) & lack of races (Oslo his only race between AAA in June & Olym 6 weeks later). So he wasn't quite at a peak in the 800m final.

[deano27671]

Cruz actually improved after Zurich in 85, running 1:42.54 4 days later in Cologne, and the fastest in the world that year, 1:42.49 in Koblenz 3 days after Cologne.

[WithBACON]

@deano27671 I believe Cruz was capable of running well under 46 for 400 meters based on his best times at 800/1000/1500 and 1 mile. I don't believe he contested the distance while near his best.

[deano27671]

@WithBACON I'm not sure about "well under" 46, but certainly his official pb of 47.17 set as a teenager is not a true reflection of what his 400 ability was in say 1984. We have quite a few televised relay legs to go on for Coe's 400 ability but very little on Cruz. His only recorded outing over 400m in 84 was a 46.9 relay leg in Eugene in the Spring. That equates to c 47.4 from a standing start. I'm sure by the Olympics his 400 speed would have been much faster and probably under 46 flat.

[deano27671]

I still don't think his 400 ability was any faster than Coe's when both were at their peaks. Coe ran a 45.6 relay from a standing start less than 2 hours after front running 1:44.0 in early June 81. Cruz never showed that sort of speed to the world, although I'm sure he was capable of at least 46, and probably did this in training.

[TheEctomorph]

@deano27671 The Joaquim Cruz of 1984 was indeed a very different animal, so to speak, to the Cruz of '85 (and subsequent years). For some reason - I have no idea what that reason was - this gifted Brazilian athlete seemed to lose some of his magic after his superb 1984 season. Back in the winter of '84/85, a considerable number of knowledgeable athletics pundits and statisticians genuinely felt that Cruz was destined to break Sebastian Coe's outstanding world record for the 800 metres,

[TheEctomorph]

@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Joaquim Cruz], which stood at 1:41.73. If my memory serves me correctly, Coe himself predicted that the big Brazilian would set a new world mark (in the two lap event) in the summer of 1985. However, as we now know, Cruz (despite his great talent for 800m running) never managed to run the distance in a time faster than 1:41.77.

To this day, however, the Brazilian still ranks as one of the four fastest 800 metres runners of all time.

[giddo007]

Why didn't Cram run more 800s? He could have won the 1983 World 800m Gold and the 1984 Olympic Gold if he was fit. Coe was so lucky, If Cram and/or Ovett was fit in 1984 he would never have won the 1500m Gold in LA!

[deano27671]

@giddo007 You clearly know nothing. Cram ran quite a few 800's actually and was fastest in the world in 82, 83 & 86. He wouldn't have contemplated the 800 at Worlds 83 as he wasn't strong enough to run both events at the time. There is no way on earth even a prime Cram from 85 or 86 would have beaten Cruz (or even Coe for that matter) in LA. Cruz ran the greatest series of 4 races in 4 days ever. He ran a 1:43.0 with a 25.2 last 200m.

[deano27671]

Compare that to Rudisha's win in this week's World Champs, 1:43.91 with a 26.0 last 200m. Cruz & Coe from LA 84 would have beaten Rudisha this week, and they ran an extra round! Cram tried beating Coe in a major 800m once, in 86 Europeans, when Cram was at his absolute peak and Coe was a few years past his. Cram got beaten. Coe was not lucky to win the 1500 either.

[deano27671]

Cram had only run 1500m faster than Coe's winning time ONCE before in his entire career, and Coe's last 100m (12.7) at that pace (3:32) was unmatched at that stage. Even Cram in 85 form wouldn't have beaten Coe that day. It would be more accurate to say that Cram was somewhat lucky to win titles in 82 & 83 when Coe (and Ovett for 82) was ill and not there.

[TheEctomorph]

@deano27671 Yes, I am inclined to agree with you there, Dean. That said, I do have a great deal of respect for Stevie Cram, the Geordie athlete who won the 1500 metres title at the inaugural World Championships, back in August 1983. Let us not forget that Crammie's world record for 1 mile - which was set two years later, in the summer of 1985 - remained unbeaten for eight long years. No British athlete in history has held the world mile record for longer than Cram - apart from the

[TheEctomorph]

@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about Steve Cram]: legendary 19th century middle-distance star, Mr Walter George (who ran the mile in a time of 4:12.8, way back in the August of 1886). Mr George's highly respected world record remained standing for 29 years, no less -  it wasn't surpassed until 1915 !

[deano27671]

@TheEctomorph By the way, did you get my response to your views re. Juantorena & Coe? I sent it to your inbox!?

[TheEctomorph]

@deano27671 I did receive your email about Mr Coe and Mr Juantorena, yes. It is very well-written and informative.

By the way, Deano, do you think that the world record (for the men's 800 metres) will go below the magic 1:40 (100 seconds) mark before the year 2025? And, if so, what type of athlete will break through that seemingly almost invincible barrier? Will it be a heavily muscled, 'jumped up' 400 metres star, in the mould of Alberto Juantorena - with a lightning quick PB for 400m?

[deano27671]

@TheEctomorph It's possible that someone will break 1:40 by 2025, although I don't think it will be Rudisha who does it. He is very much in the Juantorena mould, with I suspect 44 high 400m speed when he set the current world record last year. It will be interesting to see what he's capable of in the next few years with regards to the 1000 & 1500m. I suspect that he might be close to 2:13 for the 1k, but not as fast as Kaki's (who is more endurance based) 3:31 for 1500m.

[deano27671]

If he CAN run a 3:30 for 1500 and maintain sub 45 400 speed, then it's still a long shot to break 1:40. I am still of the firm opinion that Coe in 81 was the best candidate of running sub 1:41, when he almost certainly had simultaneous 45.6 and 3:28 ability. Without the illnesses of 82 & 83, I believe he'd still be the world record holder under 1:41, although I don't think even he was capable of sub 1:40.

[deano27671]

The man that does break that barrier will either be someone who is able to use PEDS (whether legally by then, or illegally and not get detected!), be the beneficiary of great advancements in the speed of tracks or a complete freak of nature. He will have to have the simultaneous 400 speed of a Juantorena and the 1500 endurance of a Coe at the same time.

[TheEctomorph]

@deano27671 Well, Dean, 800m in less than 1:40 - 100 seconds, in other words - is certainly one of the great athletics barriers, as it were, which is yet to be broken. The person who eventually does crack it will either be a complete freak of nature (as you so eloquently put it) or an athlete "juiced up" on illegal performance enhancing drugs. It is by no means probable that the world record (for the 800m) will be below 1:40 in the year 2025 - which, after all, is only fourteen years

[TheEctomorph]

@deano27671 Dean: From what I understand, David Rudisha's personal best time for 400 metres is 45.93 - which compares somewhat unfavourably with Juantorena's PB for that distance. That said, it is quite possible that the Kenyan athlete has not come close to fulfilling his full potential as a quarter-miler. Interestingly, Rudisha's father was an international 400m runner back in the late 1960s (according to his profile in the curent edition of the International Track & Field Annual).

[deano27671]

@TheEctomorph No. Rudisha ran a 45.50 (electronic) in a 400 flat, in Australia in early 2010. It was February or March. It used to be on Youtube and might still be on here. If he could run 45.5 when he was running 1:43 low on his training spell in OZ, then I'm sure he'd have to have been at least 0.5 faster by the peak of the season in late August, when running 1:41.01.

[TheEctomorph]

@deano27671 Personally, I doubt whether big David Rudisha - who, incidentally, is as tall as Alberto Juantorena - will ever be capable of running a really world class time for the 1500 metres or 1 mile. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that this great Kenyan athlete is, by nature, a 400m/800m runner - rather than an 800m/1500m one. His father, Daniel Rudisha, was a high class quarter miler back in the late 1960's ... and did in fact win a silver medal (in the 4 x 400m relay)

[TheEctomorph]

@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about David Rudisha]: at the Mexico City Olympics in '68.

It is interesting (slightly) to note that David Rudisha's immediate predecessor as world record holder for the 800m - Wilson Kipketer - seemed to avoid the 1500m like the plague, during his lengthy career as a top class international athlete. Yet he certainly LOOKED like a 1500 metres runner - rather than a sprinter-type 800 metres man, in the mould of Juantorena or Harbig.

[TheEctomorph]

@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about the elusive 1:40 barrier for the 800m] I can recall reading an article by the late Ron Pickering about the future of men's 800 metres running. If my memory serves me correctly, it was in 1981 that I read Mr Pickering's article; it had, however, been written some years before that. He was inclined to believe that the first 800 metres runner to break the 'magic' 1:40 barrier would indeed be an athlete of the type that I have just

[TheEctomorph]

@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about the elusive 1:40 barrier for the 800m]: described.

Mr Pickering said (or, rather, wrote) that an athlete capable of running half-a-mile in a time of 1:39.9 seconds (or faster) would need to possess the strength and power of a sprinter. Do you agree with that theory?

I seem to remember that, when Alberto Juantorena competed in - and won - both the 400 metres and the 800 metres at the Montreal Olympics, thirty-five years ago, most

[TheEctomorph]

@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'posts' abot the elusive 1:40 barrier for the 800m] of the leading middle-distance coaches of the day were of the opinion that the big Cuban was a one-off; something of a freak, in athletics terms. The general consensus of opinion - among top coaches and knowledgeable athletics pundits at the time - seemed to be that future world record holders (in the 800 metres) would, for the most part, be endurance-based athletes - as opposed to

[TheEctomorph]

@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'posts' about the elusive 1:40 barrier for the 800m]: super-fast, 'jumped-up' 400 metres men. But, as I mentioned earlier, that view was not shared by the excellent Ron Pickering; the distinguished athletics coach and BBC TV presenter/commentator, who passed away in 1991.

[kozmon0t]

@deano27671 If they had been in that race, Rudisha would have just sat right behind them and let them rabbit him to a 1.42.

[deano27671]

@kozmon0t Not sure if you are referring to Cram and Cruz in this 85 race, or Coe and Cruz in LA 84?

I think a Rudisha from 2011 (as opposed to 2010) would have won this Zurich race from 85. I don't think he would have won the LA 84 final however, based on what he did in Daegu the other month.

[iMaDeMoN2012]

Mack is out! Watch your back Los Angeles. 

[Daz555Daz]

Proof that winning the Olympic Gold does not an all time great make, Steve Cram we salute you,.

[sueyking]

That was a strategic victory, and great positioning. A lot of high school/college athletes could learn from this video. 

[samdobson565]

David Mack- Bank robber and also involved in murder of Biggie Smalls.

[ewaf88]

Cram - great talent. I know he had many calf muscle problems which hindered him.What a terrible shame.

[Daz555Daz]

"The Jarrow Arrow" we salute you. One of the GOATs in middle distance history.

[LiamP77]

Cram was looking good again in 88 with the dream Mile win, a 3.30.97 1500 world leader and a blistering AAAs 800 win. I was gutted when he lost the 1500 in Seoul, what was the reason for the poor performance, was he ill, injured?

[LPCLASSICAL]

@LiamP77 - that makes 2 of us, I was also gutted! I knew with that loss the end of UK dominance in middle distance running was at an end.

[wilfredhui]

@LiamP77 - Cram had an injury which interrupted his training before the Seoul Olympics. He was not in top form there..... pity. 

[rc2869]

Brilliant run 1985 was his year! He beat Cruz, Aoutia, Gray, Gonzalez, Coe over vaious distances. He was best tactical runner we had. Not necessarily the most talented but a competitor - shame we never seen him at 5k v Aoutia in the late 80's

[smooveXXX]

wow Cram WAS just as good as Coe over the 8. Perhaps even better if he had cared?... Nicer and more well liked guy in any case and at the end of the day that's the most important thing

[deano27671]

@smooveXXX There is a world of difference between running a solo 1:41.7 and having Cruz rabbit you to a 1:42.9! Coe and Cram were pretty even at 1500, Coe was about 2 sec faster at 400m. Doesn't take a genius to work out there's no way Cram's potential at 8 was as good as Coe's.

[stonekeeper86]

@deano27671 I agree with you, Cram didn't have the leg speed that Coe possessed. There is no substitute for pure speed!!

[deano27671]

@stonekeeper86 Thanks. Glad to see that there are others with common sense. Coe could run 21 and bits for 200m, there's no way Cram had that basic leg speed. I actually think Cram was a lot closer to reaching his 800 potential than Coe was. I'd give Cram 1:42.3 - 1:42.5 at his peak in 85 and July 86. I'd say Coe was capable of just under 1:41.0 when at his best in 81.

[KingLiopleurodon]

To say the wind would "pretty much even things out by the end" reveals Deano never ran seriously. We all know running into wind is never canceled out by having it behind you. If you haven't run a race on a windy day then first principles math analysis will do (drag prop. to effective wind vel. cubed). I do realize Deano's goal is to glorify Coe, and his 2:12.18 is one of the greatest runs of all time, yes. But Cram's 2:12.88 on a windy night at Gateshead was just as good.

[ollie705]

@KingLiopleurodon Yes, I know about the 'wind-factor' as a former middle-distance runner myself, though my greatest success was a mere county final. It can make 1-2 sec difference in an 800m or 1000m.

[deano27671]

@KingLiopleurodon What does "run seriously" mean!? LOL. Are only ex international athletes allowed to comment on here? For a start the strength of the wind was exaggerated according to people I've spoken to who were there. Secondly, if the wind behind in a 100 or 200m race is over 2m/sec, then the time is not permitted for record purposes. There is a reason for that. The wind behind you will push you on as much as it will slow you down if it's in your face.

[deano27671]

The only time when the wind will have a major effect on a short distance like the 1000m, is if it's a swirling wind which is constantly changing direction and it is more than about 4m/sec.

Cram's rabbits would have drafted him from the wind in the first 600m, then he'd have to run the back straight with the 2m/sec wind behind him, and the home straight with it in his face. When Bolt runs a 100m in 10.0 into a 2m/sec wind (which he has done) it doesn't have an intrinsic value of 9.2!

[KingLiopleurodon]

What's up with you guys? The kilo is a brutal distance. Cram's 2:12.88 at Gateshead '85 was stupendous. Didn't you see the howling homestretch headwind? 1:44.94 at 800 notwithstanding, running into a strong wind at that stage in total fatigue is ultimately challenging. If you think differently, then you guys clearly haven't ever actually run at Gateshead and enjoyed the "favorable conditions." As for this 800, clearly Cram's best-ever 2lap performance. Coe lost to Cruz in 85, Cram didn't.

[deano27671]

The wind in Gateshead that night was exaggerated according to several people there who posted on LetsRun. The rabbit would have drafted him up to 600 & what wind there was would have been behind him in the backstretch, which would pretty much even things out by the end. Neither Cruz or Coe were in the same shape in 85 as 84. Coe had a lot of back problems which interrupted his training throughout 85 & Cruz wasn't as good in 84. Cram was at his career peak here, though his Comm win is as good IMO

[deano27671]

@KingLiopleurodon Yeah, but Cram did lose to Coe at 800m that year and also to Mckean. Your comment has relevance if either Coe or Cruz were in their 84 form. Neither of them were.

[deano27671]

Great run by Cram, probably at his absolute best at 800m. I don't think he'd been capable of much faster- maybe 1:42.5. He simply didn't have any faster than 47 400m speed. Cruz was in good form in 85, but nothing like he'd been in in 84. Cram wouldn't have got past him in Cruz's 84 form. Cram's last 200 here was 25.8, while in an almost identical time race (1:43.00) Cruz had run the last 200m in 25.2 in LA, and that was a championship race (4th in 4 days)!

[acetracking]

That run was worth 1.42,4-5. Cram ran wide second and fourth curve,c.3,5-4m extra. Also his 2.12,88 is worth 1.42,2-3, no matter what ventolin says, because his formulas are wrong as you know. I think Cram could have run sub 47 sec. It was not measured, when he was peaking.

[deano27671]

Hmm. I can see that he runs wide (I'd say mainly in lane 1/on line with lane 2, though) for most of the 2nd curve but only for a small part of the last curve; and even then he's still in lane 1. Overall, he probably does run about an extra 3.5m as you say, which would equate to around 1:42.4-5. I'm not really aware where you get the conversion for his 1000m run (or remember what Ventolin said about it) from, though I agree Ventolin talks a lot of rubbish.

[deano27671]

One thing I do agree with him though is on the issue of drafting. Cram practically had the best pacemaker in the world for this race (Cruz) up to 700m. That probably saved him about 0.75 (based on 1 sec per 400) when compared to say Coe's WR runs, where he was at the front & completely alone for the last lap. Had Coe had the desired pace up to 700m in his Florence run, then he'd have run 1:41.0. I have difficulty believing Cram could run sub 47 either, but you could be right.

[acetracking]

Here are the conversion formulas for 800/1000m. For 800/1500 type runners

1.42.0->2.12,5. Pace/lap 2,0 sec. slower.

For 1500/5000 type runners 1.44,0->

2.14,2-4. Pace/lap c.1,7sec. slower. These estimations are only for world class runners. They are based on my long statistical research(30 years). I am not saying they are exact numbers,but at least very close. Of course they are for Epo free athletes.

[deano27671]

Your conversion formulas seem very reasonable. I think Cram was probably at his absolute limit when running 2:12.88. He had pretty economic pace (25.5, 51.8, 1:18.8, 1:44.94, 27.94). So perhaps it is worth around 1:42.2-1:42.5. Coe's WR run would have been 2:12.00 had he not run wide around the rabbit on the 3rd bend.

[deano27671]

I do feel he was a little too quick at 400 (51.3) & must have been feeling the after effects of his solo 3:31 four nights earlier in the last 100m or so, not to mention the blister which burst during the race. Ngeny had the luxury of pace to 750m in his later record. I think with better pacing (52.0, 1:18.3, 1:44.6) up to say 700m, Coe could have run 2:11.3 to 2:11.5 that summer.

[deano27671]

This would fit in with your conversion formula and my opinion that he could also have run 1:41.0 for 800. However, I dont think Ngeny fits into your conversion formulas at all! His 800pb was only 1:44.49. While I admit he must have been capable of faster, I have great difficulty in imagining he was anywhere near a 1:42.0 man.

[bootymanager]

@acetracking Here's a good formula. Just add 4 seconds per lap as you move up a distance. So, if you run 48, you should aim to run 1.44. If you're a 1500m runner who's run 1.44, you should aim to run 3.30. If you've run 3.30, you should aim for 7.30 for 3km. From there, add 2 seconds for a 12.55 5km. From there, it's 2-3 seconds for a 10km from 26.40-27.05. You look at Aouita and he's pretty close using this equation.

[acetracking]

My theory is that all middle distance and long distance runners can be categorised. My categories are

400/800 type(Juantorena), 600/800 type(D.Sabia,Rudisha likely in this group), 800m specialist group( Kipketer, Cruz), 800/1500 type(Coe,Cram,Ovett etc.), 1500/5000 group(Aouita,Morceli, El G, Lagat etc.), 3000m/5000m group( Moor-

croft), 5000/10000 type( Viren, Bekele, Gebreselassie, Bedford etc.).

[TheEctomorph]

@acetracking Interesting theory ..... but sometimes people don't fit neatly into little boxes, so to speak. Mr Haile Gebresalasie (for instance) has a personal best time for the 10,000 metres of 26:22.75 - yet he was also capable of running 1500 metres (indoors) in 3:31.76.

Let us also consider the case of Said Aouita; the great Moroccan middle/long distance runner of the 1980's. In 1988 - when he was 28 years of age - he won the bronze medal in the Olympic 800 metres. His time was

[TheEctomorph]

@acetracking [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about categorising middle and long-distance runners]: a highly respectable 1:43.86. Yet only one year previously, Mr Aouita had won the 5000 metres title at the World Championships in Rome. What is more, in the same year (1987) he became the first man in history to break the 13 minute barrier for that distance, with a time of 12:58.39.

That said, I am broadly in agreement with the point you make about the categorisation of middle and

[TheEctomorph]

@acetracking [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about categorising middle and long-distance runners]: long-distance runners. I notice that, in your post, you have only mentioned one athlete who excelled at both the 400m and 800m: Mr Alberto Juantorena. I can think of couple of other athletes who came into that category; one of them was a German guy by the name of Rudolf Harbig, whose outstanding career in athletics was cut short by the second World War.

[jhonnyespanadique]

What a good record with this runners'

[ollie705]

How much is left to come David Coleman said. Sadly only one more good year (1986 Commonwealth 2 golds; European gold and bronze).

[newromantic888]

Cram.......he is the greatest . People look at me and laugh.

[jmcd2v]

@newromantic888 Cram did not reach his full potential. His stubbornness in taking care of that calf and ankle problem was ridiculous. Jim Spivey wrote about how he told Cram he should get it taken care of and Cram simply said something like "I've always run like that". All that aside, I don't think Coe, Ovett, Ryun or even Walker reached their full potential. From '77 on for years Walker trained sporadically because of leg problems. That's the way it goes at the World Level I suppose.

[jerquie]

wow thank you very much for bringing this video back this is amazing thank you very much

[markgregamy]

cram took the 2000 metre world record also in that period. unbeatable for a few weeks that year. the jarrow arrow indeed.