I'm astonished at some of the narrow minded, unintelligent, and completely fabricated comments on this thread. The Avro Arrow was indeed a flop. As a Canadian, a highly educated one at that I can admit that the CF-105 was destined for failure. Often Canadians fantasize about what it could of been, how nicely it could of preformed but the hard facts don't lie, it was an underperforming, over priced, short range piece of crap. The real "gem" in this whole story was the engine designed by Orenda f
The Avro Arrow was a beautiful aircraft by any standard and represents an admirable engineering accomplishment that Canadians should be justifiably proud of. It was, however, not the world-beater that some overzealous enthusiasts claim. Of course, most aerospace projects ultimately fail for one reason or another. Let us admire this aircraft without going to extremes pro or con. We're all friends! The US and Canadian pilots and flight instructors of CanadaPilotdotcom and FAATestdotcom.
Funny how the Americans claim that every (good) aircraft in the 20th century was designed by them.....and funny how the Canadian presence in World Wars 1 & 2 isn't very well known outisde of the Netherlands & Canada.....and even stranger, a lot of U.S. aircraft designs seem to use the 'delta wing' design, which Avro developed fr the Arrow. Anyone who disputed this doesn't know their history, evidently.
@TheLordofError Funny how every thing Canadians ever believe is a lie.
Seriously, delta-wing designs predated the Arrow you moron. The Arrow was not special in anyway, it was completely inferior in every performance aspect compared to the American F-106 Delta Dart... notice the Delta in the name? That's because it had a Delta wing, and was developed BEFORE the Arrow. The Arrow was basically a cheap imitation of a superior American plane that already existed.
@TheLordofError Do you really think the US would copy the design of a Canadian plane that was inferior to American planes that already existed?
Seriously, Delta designs existed before the Arrow. The Arrow was not a good plane, Canadians have mythologized it to create pride. Canadians have completely fabricated the story that the US was jealous of Canada and pressured the Canadian government to cancel it. It was cancelled because nobody on the planet wanted the plane because it sucked.
@MercenarySlick I find it strange that our government would fabricate easily disprovable story that the Brits wanted some for supersonic tests, the French wanted the Iroquois engines for the Mirage fighters, and the plane did not suck otherwise the RCAF wouldn't have been so interested. And another thing was the comment from Yan Zurakowski that he "had never test-flown an aircraft with so few problems." And what proof do you have that the Arrow sucked? I've never seen any.
@TheLordofError Wow, seriously, are you fucking insane? You're just further proving that Canadians completely rewrite history to create pride.
NOBODY was interested in the Arrow, not even your own military. That is why it was cancelled, because it was an inferior aircraft before it even took its maiden flight. And yes, the arrow sucked. Look at the description on this video, click "Sow more". Look at the specs compared to the US F-106. The Arrow was inferior in EVERY SINGLE AREA.
Wow. Never thought this many people would argue over an airplane like the Arrow. The Arrow held a lot of promise on paper, however, complications with the production of it's powerful J75 engines became the root of it's failure. And it's limied range would also ensure that the aircraft be retired from use once the dawn of long ranged missiles were introduced in the mid-sixties. The F-106A Delta Dart was much longer lived due to it's 1800 mile range and impressive speed and payload.
Typical Faculty Lounge Mentality from the UofT - this is a review of the CBC mini series - a typical hollywood production - the aircraft was without a doubt years ahead of anything the American's were producing. Here are just two of many questions that should be answered 1 - why did the American aircraft companies come here and hire so many of the Arrows key people ? & why did almost all aircraft manufactured after the Arrow have the delta wing design - I rest my case
1) The Arrow was NOT ahead of anything Americans were producing. Google the F-106 Delta Dart. It was superior to the Arrow in every way.
2) The engineers at Avro couldn't get jobs in Canada because all your programs were failures. They were hired by the US, but only made up a tiny, tiny contribution to American companies.
3) LOL. Aircraft from BEFORE the Arrow tended to have delta wings. Again, look at the F-106 Delta Dart, an earlier American plane.
It seems MercenarySlick is another typical American who thinks that Canada is dependent on the U.S. We'll I'm a Canadian who thinks that the U.S.A is dependent on China. Your move yank....
@Forlyn0 You're the typical brainwashed, delusional Canadian whose world view resembles mental retardation more than it does any actual legitimate outlook.
90% of Canada's yearly economic output depends directly on US-related business. Fully 1/3rd of your workforce is employed by American companies or their subsidiaries.
You say we're dependent on China. Funny, Chinese business is only 4% of US economic output.
@MercenarySlick 90% dependant on USA? Hahahaha! 65% of all Canadian goods is sold to USA. Canada is buying 28% of USA economic output. And yes...we kicked your US asses in the war of 1812. You lost in Vietnam. You're losing the war on terror. We beat you in hockey. We invented basketball. 32% of all entertainment watched or listened to on earth is Canadian.
@Gordfozzfoster You're a perfect example, demonstrating exactly what I said about Canadians. You're a brainwashed, pathetic moron desperate to have pride despite the fact that Canada is a shitty country that is inferior to the US and dependent on scraps from our table.
@Gordfozzfoster 1) 90% of Canada's GDP depends on the US. Only 5%-6% of US GDP depends on Canada.
2) You didn't kick anyone's ass in the War of 1812. You take credit for what British Redcoats did. The only people who were "Canadian" in that war were the militia that the US defeated at York in the first part of the war. The BRITISH REDCOATS that burned the white house weren't even on the continent at that time your capitol surrendered to the US.
@Gordfozzfoster 4) You say we're losing the war on terror, by that logic you're losing the war on terror. Your country is in Afghanistan. You fucking retarded Canadians like to take credit for your tiny, tiny contribution from your weak, incompetent military. But if the US "loses" you pretend you didn't lose too.
5) HOCKEY? LOL you mean a sport only Canadians care about? We beat you in every single other sport on the planet.
6) HOLY SHIT YOU'RE DUMB. Nobody outside Canada pays attention to you
@MercenarySlick Our troops are in Afghanistan for one reason only, BECAUSE THE LEADERS OF YOUR COUNTRY ASKED US TO JOIN THEM! If our military is so pathetic, then why were we asked, Proportionally, our soldiers have been paying a heavier price with the loss of life there, and you have the audacity, the nerve, the ARROGANCE to say what you have!?!?! You are a perfect example of what so many people and nations find wrong with the US. You soil the reputation of most Americans.
@skatecubed Canadians have a higher casualty rate because they have inferior tactics. Canadians are a weak link in the chain of forces in Afghanistan. Canadian barely see any real combat like US troops do, yet when Canadians are attacked the attacks are more successful because Canadians have inferior training, tactics, and equipment.
It's funny that you're bragging about the fact that your troops have a higher casualty rate.
@Gordfozzfoster Canada isn't a real country. Your entire existence depends on the US. You have no culture, you just imitate ours. Your entire economy depends on the US. You have no technology, only what we give you.
Your country has never contributed anything important to our species. When the US landed man on the moon and mapped the cosmos Canada couldn't even build a vacuum cleaner.
Canada is a weak, pathetic country. Which is why you have to be retarded (like you) to actually have pride.
@MercenarySlick I assume this is why the Canadian Economy is doing so much better than the US, a country suffering the side effects of an economic melt down created by the sub-prime mortgage crisis, within it's own borders? No Technology? Mmmmkay Hane not contributed to humanity? MMmmmkay, Canada is weak? you are aware that Canada, though having a larger land mass, only has 1/10th the population, right? or were you too caught up in beating on your chest to research that?
@skatecubed The Canadian economy is NOT doing better than the US. This is yet another one of the infinitely moronic lies that you Canadians are taught by your media to help you cope with your inferioty.
Canada had a deeper recession. Canada's bailout was larger compared to GDP than the US bail out. Canada has recovered less robustly than the US, growing less than the US since the recession ended.
Your media focuses on problems in the US, ignoring the WORSE problems in Canada.
@skatecubed It's amazing how brainwashed you Canadians are. EVERY SINGLE THING that you base your pride on is a lie. You have the worst inferiority complex in the world, and your country is so weak and pathetic that you are required, as a necessity, to lie to yourselves to feel like you're better than the US when every intelligent person in the world (which obviously excludes the majority of Canadians) knows that Canada is just a weak, irrelevant leech attached to the US and nothing more.
@Gordfozzfoster LOL look at your fucking profile you dumb Canuck.
Your favorite movies are ALL American. Star Wars, Jaws, Kiss Meets the Phantom of the Park. You're a fan of Stephen King, Kiss etc... all American.
And here you are on an American website. You're using an American browser, an American computer, that runs American software. And you're on the internet which was invented by the US military.
All you Canadians are is a leech. You have ZERO contributions, you just use our shit.
@skatecubed It's funny how retarded you Canadians are. You all say the same exact things, and you all never have any idea what you're talking about. You regurgitate utter nonsense over and over again. Everything you believe is a lie.
Canada does NOT supply the majority of oil the US uses. Canada is only the biggest single foreign supplier. The US provides the biggest portion of our own oil. And how can you Canadians even brag about the fact that AMERICAN COMPANIES are taking your oil?
@MercenarySlick U.s. Department of Energy's own statistics tell a different story, %51 of oil used in the US comes from Foreign markets, %23.3 of the imported oil comes from Canada. So the math, that means that approx. %12 of US domestic oil use comes from Canada, Canada is the largest exporter of oil to the US. %11 of the oil produced in the world is from the US, but the US uses %22 of the oil consumed in the world, these are all facts from your own government. My comment was worded badly.
@skatecubed You said the majority of oil used by the US is Canadian. You were wrong. Canada is only the single largest foreign supplier of oil for the US. And what's funny is that you brag about your oil even though it's all American companies, using American technology, who are extracting that oil, and getting it at a cheap price.
We'd get that oil whether or not your nation existed. And again, all business with Canada, including oil, is only 6% of the US GDP. US-business is 90% of Canada's.
@Gordfozzfoster It's funny how all these little claims you make actually mean something.
You invented basketball? You're presenting that fact as if it means you're better than the US. You believe your stupid shit in this weird intellectual void. As if basketball is more important than say the airplane, the internet, the laser, chemotherapy etc... things that the US invented.
"we beat you in hockey"
LOL. We beat you in basketball, football, soccer, MMA, and everything else.
@schlusselmensch Thank you for giving me yet another perfect example to use to demonstrate how retarded Canadians are.
You did not invent insulin. Insulin is a naturally-occurring hormone. The pancreas invented insulin.
And by the way, Canada is also extremely fat... and is getting fatter at a higher rate than the US. In 15 years you'll be fatter. But that won't stop you from calling Americans fat, because you Canadians are the kings of hypocrisy and stupidity.
@schlusselmensch You stupid canuck, Canadians had nothing to do with the discovery of Insulin or the invention of synthetic version. Canadian Dr. Banting who claimed the discovery of insulin stole work from Romanian Nicolae Paulescu, who filed his claim in Paris before Dr. Banting. Dr. Banting acknowledged that Nicolae preceded him and yet Canadians still perpetuate the lie they invented insulin - Canada cowardly stole credit from a poor third world nation. A disgusting and despicable action
@Fooblestheclown There is NO truth behind anything awsomeman said.
The Iroquois engine never even got past the concept stage. Why? Because Canada sucks at buildings things. Canada lacks technological prowess. The entire plane was a disaster, the only parts of it that functioned properly were the ones that the US either helped Canada build or just straight donated to Canada. The radar, avionics, and the engine used in the plane when it actually flew, were all hand-me-downs from the US.
You Canadians are more ignorant of your own history than anyone else, because it's based entirely on lies which your government and society have concocted in order to create pride at the expense of the US and the expense of the truth.
You're nation of little retards who need praise in order to feel pride, because in realty you're INFERIOR to the US and DEPENDENT on the US for everything. The Avro Arrow myth is just one of many lies you believe.
this is bs. canada went from when of the top aviation leaders till like dead lasts its pathetic, the arrow even now could top almost all other fights out there
1) The entire Arrow project showed that Canada COULD NOT build its own military aircraft. Not only did Canada fail at basically every turn, but the few aspects of the project that actually worked were things that the US gave you to help you, most notably the engines.
2) The Arrow COULD NOT top modern fighters. In fact American planes like the F-106 Delta Dart that was OLDER than the arrow, was actually superior in every single aspect.
@MercenarySlick wow i had a whole thing typed up b4 u reponded saying how i see u comment on like ever canadian military thing saying how the usa's is better, so you know what kid stop being a wanna historian okay? and second, one of the reasons the avro did not work out was because the usa felt threatened by it so it made canada dis countinue the project on a protection agreement so stfu. so do your research. americafail
@awsomeman192 Holy shit you're so stupid and brainwashed. EVERY SINGLE THING YOU CANADIANS BELIEVE IS A LIE.
The US never was threatened by the Arrow, the only systems that even worked on the planes were what we gave you. You couldn't even build a jet engine, the ones that were used in the test flights of the Arrow were donated by the US.
You Canadians rewrite history to create pride. The Arrow was a COMPLETE FAILURE, an INFERIOR aircraft that NOBODY IN THE WORLD WANTED.
@MercenarySlick the only systems we had the worked was what the states gave us? haha i know your making shit up now you loser the avro was 100% canadian made, your really bad and trying to make your country look good (which is almost impossible to do anyway)
@awsomeman192 You are a perfect example of what I say about Canadians. You're mindless drones. You're taught lies about your history to help you cope with your TOTAL inferiority and dependence on the US. You defend those lies by lying yourselves when you get your lies proved wrong.
Do 10 seconds of research. The Avro Arrow failed, repeatedly. All the things it was supposed to demonstrate were not achieved by Canadian engineers. You couldn't build an engine for it, you used an American one.
@MercenarySlick There's no debating with MercenarySlick. He's RIGHT! The Iroquois engine was suppose to be something revolutionary and it was never built. Why? was it not built? And yes, Canada does have a huge inferiority complex when it comes to the States. We screwed our nation up even more back in 1982 when we got our Constitution back. Whether it's bilingualism, immigration, and especially our Justice system it's all fucked up. Oh well...at least we still have hockey players.
@awsomeman192@MercenarySlick the only systems we had the worked was what the states gave us? haha i know your making shit up now you loser the avro was 100% canadian made, your really bad and trying to make your country look good (which is almost impossible to do anyway)
@awsomeman192 The US did not make Canada discontinue the Arrow. There is no record of any US meddling with the Arrow program. If anything, the US was helpful with the project. Canada developing an aircraft for the defense of North American airspace was very much in US interests as well as Canadian.
Ok lets say all this crap is true! Why are all the new tech jets like Euro fighter and so on have the same shape as the Arrow? Im a Canadian Mechanical Engineer and I tell you this design is a break through. It cancels the wakes created during the separation of air streams from the surface of the tail wings. Wakes are very turbulent movements created during the separation of of the stream flows off the body of the plane. Wakes cause back pressure and slow the plane. This is why the concord looks
@mmitwaly You're not a mechanical engineer, first off. You're just one of those Canadians that makes shit up off the top of your head and lies about credentials you don't have in order to lend false credibility to your nationalist desperation.
Secondly, you're saying that new fighters are the same shape as the arrow? Really? Because the Arrow itself was based on copying the contours of American planes. Look up the Convair F-106 Delta Dart. The Arrow was not the originator of that style of plane
@MercenarySlick The only thing Americans invented are cars that break down, federal reserve, fake economies, wars and mass murders. Stop watching Hollywood movies or you will believe your lies. BTW your average IQ is less then 99. You elected a reverse evolved president twice that brought the world economy to its knees. Please go pay your debts. Save the world from American BS!!!
@mmitwaly Every single thing that comes out of the diseased minds of you Canadians is a load if hypocritical, ungrateful bullshit.
Every single technology you're using right now was invented by Americans. Canadians are less educated and less intelligent than Americans. Canadians IQ is lower than the average in the US despite the fact the US has tens of millions of illegal immigrants from Mexico and black people.
Canada has contributed ZERO to the world, and is completely dependent on America.
@MercenarySlick right, did u know that canada is americas #1 oil supplyer, or #1 supplyer of lumber, fresh water, or weapons grade uranium... and what do u give the canadians? american movies, american tv shows, and try and give us american filth and moral degeneration... sounds like we need you alot, and americas average citizen IQ is lower then nearly every other industrial country in the world, so get it right before you open your mouth, u just another example of a ignorant dumbass american
@101andrewj Did you know that 90% of your entire economic output is due entirely to the US economy? That almost every single employed person in your country has a job only because of trade and business dealings with the US? Did you know that you have absolutely no technological prowess and that all the technology in your country comes from the US? Including all the tech that is used to extract the resources that your brag about?
The average American IQ is higher than Canadians you moron.
@mmitwaly Here you are, on an American website, using an American browser, on an American computer, that runs an American OS, on the internet which was invented by the US. You live in Canada, a country whose entire economic output is due to American technology and investment, where literally 90% of your work force is employed by American companies or subsidiaries of American companies.
You just said the world copied Canada's shitty Avro Arrow plane, which was actually an inferior copy of F-106
@mmitwaly Every thing you Canadians believe is a lie designed to make you feel better about your country, which has never created the best of anything, which has never contributed to our species in any meaningful way. Your entire country depends on the country that you think you're better than, and you only exist because of our mercy. The US could cross your border and destroy you before breakfast.
@101andrewj Seriously, you are proving how Canadians are so fucking retarded that you need to continue to claim somethign that you were taught that makes you proud despite the fact that it was disproved.
The Avro Arrow was INFERIOR in EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF PERFORMANCE compared to OLDER American planes. The Arrow was not good at anything, it was a complete failure. It was canceled because NOBODY ON THE PLANET wanted it, not even your own government. It never got past the development phase.
your all fucking retarded, at the time the avero was created the liberals were in charge, they burned the designs and assasinated and jailed some of the engineers, fuckk all the americans who hate Canada, the whole world loves us and were one of your only allies but the united states general public is fucking retarded
@SnakesWithGuns 1) The Avro Arrow was a piece of shit. It was a failure. Canadians have mythologized it to create pride. Just like you always do, since Canada is so pathetic and has nothing to be proud of you Canadians make up lies to base your pride on.
2) Nobody loves Canada, only Canadians. Most countries don't even know who you are, you're just that retarded version of the US that thinks it's special.
3) Most Canadians don't eve know who your Prime Minister is. You're dumber than Americans
2.one of the reasons it was canceled (this is a true fact i did reserch) was because the us did not like because they thought that we would use it against them
3. this is around the time were i think it was the democrats went to palrament and they canceled the project
so yeah the avro arrow was not a complete failuer
@sniperguy1995 You're so fucking dumb. You Canadians have NO CLUE what you're talking about.
1) The Arrow was NOT advanced for its time. Older American planes were superior in every way. And Canadians needed American help for almost every part of the plane's development.
2) Complete lie. The US had nothing to do with it. The Arrow was canceled because nobody wanted it, it was a failure, and even the Canadian military didn't want it.
3) The Arrow was a typical Canadian failure. Period.
1) Has has no power and no responsibilkties in this world, of course you haven't started wars. You've also never won a war in your history either, you've only played small roles in wars that the US did the most in.
2) Your crime rate is only lower because you don't border Mexico and you have like 3 black people. The vast majority of the US has the same or lower crime as Canada.
the avro arrow was faster than any american jet when it was built probably was arrow was shut down by americans because they were embaressed, it had problems that could have been fixed. this is a theory this gentleman talking is probably mostly right he is a university professor and he was probably a young teenager when this jet was built
@Heyfirehey Holy shit you Canadians are so stupid.
The Avro Arrow was slower than American planes that were already in service in the US Air Force. The F106 Delta Dart was superior to the Arrow in every single area of performance.
The Arrow was canceled because it was a shitty plane that nobody wanted, even the Canadian military didn't want it. You Canadians mythologize so many things in your country to create pride and help you cope with your jealousy of the US.
The Arrow would have been the best if they were given the chance.
Your historians are a joke. You will do anything to show America is so much better when we all know that the Arrow would have proven to be superior to ANYTHING America could ever hope to put out.
America is a fucking joke, and forever will be.
It still can't win a war with poorly armed insurgents in Iraq. Fucking joke.
Just like this fucker in the video, lying through his teeth.
@snake2006 Seriously, every single thing you Canadians believe in is a lie and a myth designed to help you have pride. You're the most pathetic country in the history of our species.
The Avro Arrow was a failure. It was inferior in every single way to older American planes. It only went on as long as it did because Canadians wanted to have pride in something. And you only think it was a good aircraft because your government has rewritten history and used the story to create nationalism.
@buckbuckaroo1 You're a fucking retard. Canada is a weak, irrelevant country so you Canadians overcompensate by developing these false beliefs you have. Nobody in the world cares about Canada except Canadians.
Nobody would choose Canada over the US. In fact, millions of Canadians move to the US. If Canada is so great why is 1/10th of your people living in the US and why does an entire province almost 1/5th of your population want to break away and create it's own country.
@MercenarySlick funny cause its the exact opposite, the world loves canada especialy europe because we were the ones who liberated most countries, the world fucking hates Head up there ass America
@SnakesWithGuns It's funny because you're a Canadian and you're demonstrating exactly what I say about you and your stupid country. Canada did not liberate a single country, Canada's role was so tiny that you were only given the smallest, most unimportant missions. You have never won a single battle in your entire nation's history by yourself. Not one.
The US liberated Europe from the Nazis and Asia from the Japanese. The US won that war, Canada just had a tiny role that you exaggerate.
@buckbuckaroo1 Nobody cares about Canada, that's the thing. You get no attention because you're irrelevant. Hating you would be like hating some retarded person that never leaves their house on the other side of the planet.
The US is hated because we're the most powerful country in the world. We're running the world and we achieve the most. We landed a man on the moon when most countries couldn't even feed their people.
Being hated comes with the territory. People are jealous.
Too bad you didn't bother to check your facts...the performance data you list is for the initial testbed Arrow with the the J-57 engines: less than 12,000lb static thrust. The Iroquois engines slated for the Arrow in its service form developed 19,250 static and 26,000 lbs of thrust in afterburner...the aircraft was fly-by-wire, and had internal weapons bays. Not only are you a bigot, the interview you quote is from an anti-military failed socialist candidate for parliament--real honest.
@jackalmate It's amazing the mental gymnastics you Canadians resort to in order to perpetuate your own delusions.
The Iroquois engines never got passed the development stage, the program was just completely dogged by setbacks. Your country could not develop a high-performance engine. You're basically disregarding the actual performance aspects of the Arrow and claiming its performance would be better in the event that a hypothetical engine was used... an engine you couldn't build. Hilarious.
@MercenarySlick Like I said, it is too bad you didn't bother to do your research...Iroqouis engines were installed in aircraft #5, and it had already begun testing to exceed Mach 2 when the program was cancelled...as for the engines, they are still being used to initiate the backup programs in CANDU nuclear reactors...btw, the engine design team went to GE after Avro folded--it is the team that designed the engines for the SR-71 and F-18...ignorant fool.
@pontecanis Holy shit you Canadians are ridiculous. Lie after lie, the entire basis of your world view is a gigantic steamy pile of shit.
The Iroquois engines were never flight tested on the Arrow, only an B-52 the US loaned you. It never met its performance requirements and it was plagued by problems. You could not build a jet engine worth shit, and you still can't.
The engine on the SR-71 was a Pratt and Whitney, Canadians had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
I've got your back. I cannot believe some Canadians actually think they desgined the engines to the SR-71, F-18, or much less NASA, which many of them so wrongly claim, Avro engineers launched.
YOU MUST BE JOKING! You actually think "Canadians" designed the engines for the SR-71??? And the F-18??? Provide a source you ignorant fool. Canadians DO NOT design the American military, see ITAR regulations. While you're at it, try to understand that your prcious Avro Arrow was NEVER actually finished and MANY of the technicians and engineers were BRITISH (including the cheif engineer and the cheif designer), thus further deminishing yoor OVERLY patriotic claims. Prick.
Sorry, but not even "Wikipedia" can save your sorry asses from the facts behind this failed aircraft. Canada did not (and currently DOES NOT) possess the engineering corps smart enough and big enough to build a world class military. Good night you "peaceful nation" you.
@JohnQRandom ~ I like you...you're funny...and ignorant...there are far too many films of the aircraft flying, and witnesses to it flying over Toronto, including myself, to lend any credence to your nonsense. You might cite for me regulations that state friendly foreign national resident aliens are unable to be employed by companies such as Pratt & Whitney, GE,Lockheed, etc, especially as they had Canadian subsidiaries. As for NASA, check Jim Chamberlain out...then you may apologise
@jackalmate~ By the way, you might also check out the F-86---the most effective version of the F-86 was the F-86F, with engine designed by Orenda, and built under license by Canadair, Ltd., in the Province of Quebec." The final variant, the Mark 6, is generally rated as having the highest capablities of any Sabre version made any where".Joos, Gerhard W. Canadair Sabre Mk 1-6, Commonwealth Sabre Mk 30-32 in RCAF, RAF, RAAF, SAAF, Luftwaffe & Foreign Service. Osprey PLL, 1971.
PS, your test pilot was Polish. If Canadians couldn't even fly it, how could they have invented it, much less NASA's lunar space program, which on the odd days of the week you claim was filmed in Arizona. Get your shit together my friend, there's a world out there. ; )
Sorry my ignorant Canadian friend, but your precious country is in desperate need of engineers, and always ahas been, which is why your immigrants are hand picked (many Asians) to ramp up your pathetically small engineer corps. Research "Wenher Vonbraun", then you will know which foreigners had a the biggest hand in NASA. There never was a "brain drain" from Canada to the US (as Wiki claims), and the head technicians for the Arrow were "British" (John Hodge, James Floyd).
@JohnQRandom~ I see: Chief Aerodynamicist..."James A. (Jim) Chamberlin (1915-1981) was a Canadian aerodynamicist who contributed to the design of the Canadian Avro Arrow, NASA Gemini space capsule and Apollo Lunar Module (LM).NASA awarded Jim Chamberlin its Exceptional Scientific Achievement, Exceptional Engineering Achievement, Exceptional Service, and Gold medal." wikiped
I guess those NASA guys lie through their teeth...when Armstrong, Aldrin, and Collins rode in the big tickertape parade in NYC, Jim Chamberlain sat in the car directly behind theirs...there were 25 people in the design team that went to NASA---all from AVRO, all worked on the Arrow...guess those NASA guys were real idiots alright...
LOL! That would amount to ONE Canadian "contributed" to a mechanical piece of a lunar mission many people don't even believe happened. Since when does this mean that 25 Canadians "led" the engineer corps for NASA?? The Avro was unfinished and over-hyped by overzealous Canadians like yourself my friend, and the engines of SR-71 were not desgined by incompetent Canadians who failed to deliver for their own aircraft. Editing wiki to your liking doesn't make it true dear.
@JohnQRandom ~~See the vid:" Avro Arrow (CF105) Tribute" by sythewave---it has lots of footage of the aircraft you say never was completed clearly flying and landing--so much for your jingoist claims of noncompletion...Chamberlain and 24 members of his team were the lead engineers for Gemini and LEM programs, not NASA as a whole, stupid---I notice you ignored the Orenda F-86F data, as you tend to ignore much---like the design team at P&W--
BTW, you might want to check out P&W Canada's PT6---In US military use, they are designated as T74 or T101, depending on fixed wing or helicopter...more incompetence and nonexistent products used even by the US military? Or just another example of how jingoist twits ignore work of countries other than US? Time to grow up and develop a mature world view...
I haven't been ignoring the engneering on behalf of other countries my friend, you have. I am simply saying that Canada's contributions to NASA and your ENTIRE military have been small by comparison to the US, Russia, China etc. You are a typical "insecure" Canadian with an identity crisis, screaming for attention by bringing up any little detail that Canadians may have had a hand in, but never were "depended" on. There's a world outside Canada my friend, I suggest you get out and see it.
I am not the jingoist here my friend, it is you. Apparently you are incapable of understanding this video, as it clearly states the truth by a Canadian professor who is well educated on it. I didn't look into the F-86 data, however I did look into the claim that the engines of the F-18 and SR-71 are (were) "Canadian made", which I found no proof supporting it whatsoever. Nor did I find anything supporting your claim that the "design team" of P&W are Canadians. Provide an online source.
@JQR--as previously stated Michael Bliss, quoted in the program, is an antimilitarist socialist --one of his books is called "Towards a One-Party State"--he is neither authoritative nor well-respected in the scientific community, but a professor of History with NO aeronautic credentials at all---his specialties are the history of medicine/medicare and economics--see NASA Space Task Group/Jim Chamberlain/Shutting Down the National Dream--YT does not permit listing urls and won't show
"Michael Bliss' specialties are the history of medicine/medicare and economics"
Which, if it is true, you constantly boast to Americans on the "free health care" threads. Pack it up asshole, and move on to another thread where you might have more luck finding someone who doesn't buy into your bullshit. Your claims are a play on words
"P&W design team is Canadian"
"SR-71 engines are Canadian made"
"25 Avro engineers became *managers* and *lead engineers* of NASA"
As far as the Gemini mission and or others lunar missions, it's funny how when you are desperate to point out the so-called "Canadian think tank" in NASA, you brag that a mere 25 Canadians (some of whom were British, as were the chief designers and engineers of the Arrow) made a contribution. Then of course the next day you're crying out that lunar missions never took place and were filmed in Nevada. It must be horrible being an overly-patrioctic Canadian, so confusing, LOL!
@JohnQRandom Interesting--I never claimed the engines were Canadian made, but that the design team from Orenda went to Pratt&Whitney, both in the USA and Canada, primarily valued for their expertise in designing and working working with titanium and axial-flow turbines; the F-86 Orenda engine was designed and manufactured in Canada: nor did I make any claim the lunar landings never occurred--anyone reading these posts will easily see the distortions you have made.
Who gives a shit if the design team was valued??? Who Isn't?? LOL!! You've been exposed little man, and yor debate amounts to nothing more than the ramblings of a 13 year old dying for attention, as stated earlier. Your "wikipedia" source (which I personally edited) is switched back to the "Canadian version" daily, and your engineer corps is EXTREMELY small. The "F-86, WOW! Welcome back to reality tough guy, like I said, must be diffucult being Canadian, LOL! Congrats on P&W Canada! LOL!
"Prat and Whitney" is a US company and was founded in 1925. "Prat and Whitney Canada" was founded in 1928 and it is a "division" of the US company. Is this what you meant by "Canadians" working for Prat and Whitney?? LOL! There are people now working for both companies all over the world. Please put your flag away, and I still haven't found anything that says the SR-71 engines were designed by Canadians working for Prat and Whitney Canada. You lose again sweetheart.
I don't understand why you hate Canadians so much? And I didn't want to do this, but this "Americans are vastly more educated than Canadians" I don't believe is true...
Average Can. IQ: 103
Average U.S. IQ: 98
1 in 5 American's believe the sun revolves around the earth.
But IQ is about race. The US has blacks and latinos that make up 1/3rd of the population. They have low IQs in every country they live in, it brings down the national average. The average IQ of a white American is 106, which is on par with South Korea and Hong Kong. The average IQ of a black person in the US is 85, so it brings down the national score while having NOTHING to do with the country.
@MercenarySlick you wrote "The average IQ of a black person in the US is 85, so it brings down the national score while having NOTHING to do with the country."
Um ... black people have nothing to do with the country? Would you say this to your president?
@infindebula Not all black people have low IQs, but the average IQ of a black person is significantly lower than other races. The fact that the US has so many black people and Canada does not skews the statistics, you end up comparing two factors that you BELIEVE measure the ability of the country to create intelligent people, but it's really about demographics.
If you look at each race within the US, the IQ on average is higher than people of the same race from other countries.
@infindebula And again, the vast majority of people in Canada are white and the few minorities Canada has are mostly Asians, so Canada should have a huge, huge advantage statistically but that's not the case. So when you adjust for racial factors and actually gauge the ability of a system to create high IQ, the US outperforms Canada by a huge margin.
And Jewish Americans and Japanese Americans have the highest IQs as demographic groups in the world. Higher than Israel/Japan.
@glebzy9 Canada doesn't have free health care you brainwashed retarded Canadian. It is funded in taxes.
And your healthcare sucks. You wait in line for long periods of time and you're less likely to survive from every single treatable disease. That's why your politicians come to the US to get healthcare. Your government thinks shitty Canadian care is ok for sheep like you, but they think they're too good for it so they come to get treated in the US.
"1 in 5 American's believe the sun revolves around the earth."
See the video here on youtube called: "French guy think sun orbits the earth", it's from the show "Who wants to be a Millionare" in France. You can EASILY take a poll in Canada concerning this question, ask 5 people, and wait for ONE idiot to
say the sun orbits the Earth. Think before you post my friend.
"60% of American's didn't know the sun was a star"
See the youtube video: "French guy thinks the Sun orbits the Earth". It's from "Who wants to be a millionare" in France. (Please note what the audience thought). Polls such as these are controversial my friend, and can easily be made to look Canadians look stupid as well.
canadians re-write history? hahahaha lets see....u claim u won the war of 1812- lie, you claim you won WW1 for the allies- lie, America has never won a war without being bailed out by another country- true...for god sakes you had to turn to the french to win your own independence! then again i guess this shows that the country with a shit education and a bunch of fat people can create some pretty good stories
@LiLRuss31 You're an idiot. The US has never been bailed out by another country in a war. The exact opposite is true, the US has regularly had to bail out other countries. And the US did technically win the War of 1812, because the US was the only side to gain anything. The Brits ended their illegal incursions into US territory, they ceased impressment of US sailors and piracy against US shipping.
The British gained nothing, and your country didn't exist so you gained nothing either.
@LiLRuss31 Canada has the most unimportant military history out of pretty much any country. That's why you rewrite history to create pride, claiming you won wars that took place before you existed. You live in a pathetic, feckless country so you've created a false reality in your heads to make your existence more tolerable.
Canada is a nation inhabited by brainwashed, uneducated, mental midgets.
@MercenarySlick Oh yea, Canada just came in for the fuck of it. You tell me I'm a dumb ignorant Canadian, I've seen your stereotypes pussy. So eat a dick, and hop off my scrotum.
@LiLRuss31 Shit education? Americans are vastly more educated than Canadians and our universities are the best in the world.
More proof of how brainwashed Canadians are, you actually believe you're more educated than Americans. Canada... the country that has invented nothing of importance, has people that think they're better than the country that invented the airplane, the internet, and basically every other foundational aspect of modern science and technology.
I completely agree. On every Avro thread there are Canadians who post daily comments about how the US canceled the aircraft. Their identity crisis/inferiority complex has driven many of them to buy into ANYTHING that's remotely anti-American without even checking into the sources to prove its validity. They are taught anti-American jargon in their schools, and have a twisted view of the US all together. Have a look at the video: "No USA flags on Grainville street?".
The Avro Arrow was an inferior aircraft that was worse in every single area of performance compared to older American planes. Your government canceled it because it was expensive and shitty and nobody on the planet wanted to buy it, no even your own government.
You Canadians rewrite history in order to create pride, because your country is such a gigantic piece of shit with zero accomplishments.
@MercenarySlick I'm responding to your post from a month ago, directed toward blacknight56.
"gigantic piece of shit with zero accomplishments" is a bit harsh. Two pretty significant accomplishments that immediately come to mind are insulin and the telephone.
Also: the Arrow would have been merely been cancelled if only "because it was expensive and shitty" - but why was all evidence of it ordered to be destroyed?
1) Canada didn't invention insulin, it's a naturally occuring hormone created by the pancreas.
2) Canada did not invent the telephone, the fact that you all believe you did though is proof of the fact that you have no accomplishments so you have to rewrite history to pretend you do.
The telephone was invented by Alexander Graham Bell. He was a Scottish-American. He invented the telephone in the US, as a US citizen, under a US patent, assisted by Americans. He was NEVER CANADIAN.
@infindebula I'm absolutely amazed that an entire country is entirely retarded. That is Canada. You all believe the same shit, you've never done any research. You claim credit for inventions that your country had literally NOTHING TO DO WITH. You rewrite history to create sources of pride and every single one of you fucktards beliefs it with zero doubt, never checking the facts.
@MercenarySlick"You claim credit for inventions that your country had literally NOTHING TO DO WITH." You obviously need to do some more "research." The 1923 Nobel Prize in medicine went to a Cdn and a Scott, who in turn shared it with a third Cdn. Scientific discoveries are the result of building on previous work, and sharing information and research, just like how rocket science was pioneered and invented in Germany by Nazis who moved to the U.S. & made the moon landings possible.
@stama9 Modern rocket science was pioneered and invented by the US. Robert Goddard invented liquid-fueled rocketry that the Nazis themselves based their designs on.
Having a handful of Germans move to the US does not mean the accomplishments that involved literally tens of thousands of American scientists and engineers is attributable to them, especially when Werner Von Braun himself based his early rocket designs on previous American ones.
@SnakesWithGuns Seriously, Canadian, shut the fuck up. You have no clue what you're talking about, you Canadians always say the dumbest shit., You're a nation of brainwashed morons.
The first liquid fueled rocket was invented by Robert Goddard, an American. The Nazis based their designs on blueprints that he had already created years earlier.
@kinglenny31 Canada is a joke, as evidenced by this video. You take pride in your failures by rewriting history.
Funny you Canadians all think the Avro Arrow was awesome despite the fact it was inferior in every regard compared to American planes. The Arrow had such short range it couldn't even patrol the arctic... the mission it was designed for.
@Vanessatterfly Epic fail...You're obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, eh? This is a CANADIAN journalist interviewing a CANADIAN history professor from the University of Toronto. His answers are accurate, supported by verifiable facts, but even if it were "propaganda", it would be CANADIAN propaganda.
You might want to learn, and live by that great quote by American President Abraham Lincoln: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
A "history professor at the University of Toronto" hardly constitutes as "American propaganda". The Canadian made film depicting Canada's view of the history of this plane is a travesty.
wow the comment thread here is so informative (and entertaining). I had no idea the arrow was so inferior. I remember being so proud about it when I was younger watching that documentary, assuming it was all true. I didn't cross my mind to fact check what was being shown on the CBC..but I guess I know better now
What an idiotic video created by a blatant Anti-Canadian. It's the same story elsewhere, with the TSR2 in the UK. Americans get pushy with the government and the government disrupts military projects - then the whole plan to replace the TSR2 with the shitty F111 goes pear shaped. And as for people saying the Arrow is "the best fighter around", how do you even know that applies to todays standards? Many pilots still regard the MIG-21 as the greatest fighter aircraft ever made.
1:45 - The woman: "Let's go back to the reasons why the Arrow was cancelled" ("At least say it was the Americans behind its cancelation!)
Professor: "The cost was out of control, the company producing the aircraft had a terrible track record of not being able to do things on time or stay on their budget, couldn't meet the governments requirements, no other country wanted to buy this plane not to mention the founders of the project were going to cancel it anyway..."
I'm Canadian and I know that there's nothing amazing about this airplane. Canadians made it; so what? We make one plane and everyone goes crazy. Americans are much better at creating planes because they tend to focus on that topic, whereas Canadians don't really need all these fancy aircrafts because we wouldn't use them! This whole topic on the arrow is annoying just let it die.
Make up lies eh? So not true....the plane was a fine example of the best technology of its time...the first jet to have CNC made parts on ANY jet...which meant precision....but of course your little nerd brain doesn't understand that concept...
The plane was inferior in EVERY SINGLE PERFORMANCE ASPECT compared to American planes that were already flying.
The fact that you're still pretending the Avro Arrow was special is absolute proof of exactly what I insulted you Canadians about. You have to believe lies to feel better about your country. You have to rewrite history and pretend that your SHITTY airplane that had TERRIBLY SHORT RANGE and was SLOWER than other planes was some glorious thing.
@williamandsusie: Advanced technology, sure. The "best technology of it's time", surely not. NC / CNC was invented and developed in the USA, starting in the early 1940's. CNC technology in the 1950's was in it's infancy. The only advantage it would've had at that point in regard to "precision", would be in repeatability of machining hundreds of parts. A single, or handful of parts could be machined and finished manually just as precisely at the time.
Arrow was a failure? At least we didn't have to outsource to make the damn plane.... there were made on our soil, by our own hands....you guys rely on china to make your shit....also your avionics mad in china, lol.
@williamandsusie lol you're a psychotic idiot. The US is THE MOST independent airplane producer in the world, especially in military aircraft. The Avro Arrow itself was based on modified airframes of other planes and you Canadians couldn't even fucking build engines for it, you used American ones.
It's amazing how EVERY SINGLE THING you Canadians brag about is a lie. You're hypocritical idiots.
@Trevor10 The Iroquois-powered Arrow 2 was to be a mach 2+ aircraft. It would not have even approached mach 3. It was airframe heating, not engine power, that was the limiting factor in top speed. Hypothetical mach 3 versions of the Arrow were being conceptualized, but like the F-108 were a long way from becoming a reality.
@LeopoldPlumtree The Iroquois engines were never going to be operational. Canada simply did not have the technological prowess. The Avro Arrow was a turkey, Canadians need pride so they glorify it. It was inferior in every single performance area compared to American planes. And the most notable problem with the Arrow was its cripplingly short range. 400 mile combat, compared to the 1800 mile range of the American Delta Dart. The Arrow was an absolutely abysmal failure, useless.
@MercenarySlick How do we know Canada didn't have the technological prowess to see through the development of the Iroquois? Sure, it had some teething issues (like the uncontained turbine failure that occurred on a B-47/CL-52 test), but there's not much reason to think they wouldn't have been able to iron out those issues.
The F-106 did have greater range, but was the disparity actually 1400 miles? Are you sure you're comparing ranges without external fuel carriage?
@LeopoldPlumtree: I personally believe if the Arrow would have been funded and developed for another couple of years, Avro / Orenda would have worked out the kinks. I think the Arrow had the potential to be developed into an excellent Interceptor for the RCAF that would have equaled, and possibly slightly exceeded the F-106 performance (Mach 2.3). However, the limited range of the Arrow would continue to be problematic. It would be impossible to solve without using large external stores.
@LeopoldPlumtree: Which I believe would be rejected as unacceptable. The other option would have been to build an infrastructure of bases around Canada to support the Arrow. Between 1-3 dozen "mini-bases" with just enough personnel and equipment to fuel and maintain the Arrow to accomplish it's mission would have worked I think. The problem with that proposal of course, is the added expenditure to build all those bases. It would have surely sunk the program even if other cost overruns didn't.
Dude, you're a prime reason as to why people believe that Diefenbaker was a Yankee-lover and canceled the Arrow due to pressure from America. People think it was canceled because America just HAS to be the BEST military power in the world and they can't stand it when they are outdone.
@zeroskater133 Canada never outdid the US. You Canadians ALWAYS base your pride on complete lies. The US never pressured Canada to cancel the arrow. The Canadian government could not afford it, NOBODY wanted the plane, not even the Canadian air force, and the plane had failed to provide any capability that other planes didn't have. The Arrow was a FAILURE.
Look at the video description. The Arrow was INFERIOR in EVERY SINGLE PERFORMANCE ASPECT compared to an older US plane.
If you would read what I said in my other post rather than assuming that you are right, as is typical American fashion, you would notice that I also have information to back up my point of view, only mine is from a much more reputable source than a video description. I don't care what the video description says, you could've put whatever you wanted there. But I will admit, there are other factors that led to the cancelation, like BOMARC. And the RCAF did want the Arrow.
@zeroskater133 Lol you said "wikipedia ftw'. The list of aspects of the Avro Arrow compared to the American F-106 Delta Dart ARE on wikipedia.
You Canadians really need to get a grip on reality. You always rewrite history to your hearts' content because you're desperate for pride. The Arrow was not a good plane, it was a failure in every way. Even if it ever was deployed, it had such terribly short range that it could not have achieved its mission as an interceptor/patrol aircraft.
Sorry about all this, if you'll look at the other comments from EngineerAuronautical, I admit that it wasn't better than those planes. When I was doing my research on the Arrow, the page conveniently didn't mention any aircraft superior to it. Now that I finally know about these planes, I realize that they are better. I'll also raise the same question to you: Since the Arrow wasn't the best plane of its time, why did they destroy everything related to it?
I'm astonished at some of the narrow minded, unintelligent, and completely fabricated comments on this thread. The Avro Arrow was indeed a flop. As a Canadian, a highly educated one at that I can admit that the CF-105 was destined for failure. Often Canadians fantasize about what it could of been, how nicely it could of preformed but the hard facts don't lie, it was an underperforming, over priced, short range piece of crap. The real "gem" in this whole story was the engine designed by Orenda f
9604781 1 week ago
The Avro Arrow was a beautiful aircraft by any standard and represents an admirable engineering accomplishment that Canadians should be justifiably proud of. It was, however, not the world-beater that some overzealous enthusiasts claim. Of course, most aerospace projects ultimately fail for one reason or another. Let us admire this aircraft without going to extremes pro or con. We're all friends! The US and Canadian pilots and flight instructors of CanadaPilotdotcom and FAATestdotcom.
DauntlessAviation 1 month ago
Funny how the Americans claim that every (good) aircraft in the 20th century was designed by them.....and funny how the Canadian presence in World Wars 1 & 2 isn't very well known outisde of the Netherlands & Canada.....and even stranger, a lot of U.S. aircraft designs seem to use the 'delta wing' design, which Avro developed fr the Arrow. Anyone who disputed this doesn't know their history, evidently.
TheLordofError 8 months ago
@TheLordofError Funny how every thing Canadians ever believe is a lie.
Seriously, delta-wing designs predated the Arrow you moron. The Arrow was not special in anyway, it was completely inferior in every performance aspect compared to the American F-106 Delta Dart... notice the Delta in the name? That's because it had a Delta wing, and was developed BEFORE the Arrow. The Arrow was basically a cheap imitation of a superior American plane that already existed.
MercenarySlick 8 months ago
@MercenarySlick "Funny how everything Canadians belive is a lie."
"...you moron."
No need to be snarly or get lippy. I'm not an insanely patriotic Canadian, but what you've just said isn't incorrect, but it's also not correct.
Do you really think the U.S. would display the F-106 to the world? Do you think that Avro Canada knew about the design?
TheLordofError 8 months ago
@TheLordofError Do you really think the US would copy the design of a Canadian plane that was inferior to American planes that already existed?
Seriously, Delta designs existed before the Arrow. The Arrow was not a good plane, Canadians have mythologized it to create pride. Canadians have completely fabricated the story that the US was jealous of Canada and pressured the Canadian government to cancel it. It was cancelled because nobody on the planet wanted the plane because it sucked.
MercenarySlick 8 months ago
@MercenarySlick I find it strange that our government would fabricate easily disprovable story that the Brits wanted some for supersonic tests, the French wanted the Iroquois engines for the Mirage fighters, and the plane did not suck otherwise the RCAF wouldn't have been so interested. And another thing was the comment from Yan Zurakowski that he "had never test-flown an aircraft with so few problems." And what proof do you have that the Arrow sucked? I've never seen any.
TheLordofError 8 months ago
@TheLordofError Wow, seriously, are you fucking insane? You're just further proving that Canadians completely rewrite history to create pride.
NOBODY was interested in the Arrow, not even your own military. That is why it was cancelled, because it was an inferior aircraft before it even took its maiden flight. And yes, the arrow sucked. Look at the description on this video, click "Sow more". Look at the specs compared to the US F-106. The Arrow was inferior in EVERY SINGLE AREA.
MercenarySlick 8 months ago
Wow. Never thought this many people would argue over an airplane like the Arrow. The Arrow held a lot of promise on paper, however, complications with the production of it's powerful J75 engines became the root of it's failure. And it's limied range would also ensure that the aircraft be retired from use once the dawn of long ranged missiles were introduced in the mid-sixties. The F-106A Delta Dart was much longer lived due to it's 1800 mile range and impressive speed and payload.
F15pilots 1 year ago
Typical Faculty Lounge Mentality from the UofT - this is a review of the CBC mini series - a typical hollywood production - the aircraft was without a doubt years ahead of anything the American's were producing. Here are just two of many questions that should be answered 1 - why did the American aircraft companies come here and hire so many of the Arrows key people ? & why did almost all aircraft manufactured after the Arrow have the delta wing design - I rest my case
MacPhee1806 1 year ago
@MacPhee1806 Wow, you Canadians are sad.
1) The Arrow was NOT ahead of anything Americans were producing. Google the F-106 Delta Dart. It was superior to the Arrow in every way.
2) The engineers at Avro couldn't get jobs in Canada because all your programs were failures. They were hired by the US, but only made up a tiny, tiny contribution to American companies.
3) LOL. Aircraft from BEFORE the Arrow tended to have delta wings. Again, look at the F-106 Delta Dart, an earlier American plane.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
It seems MercenarySlick is another typical American who thinks that Canada is dependent on the U.S. We'll I'm a Canadian who thinks that the U.S.A is dependent on China. Your move yank....
Forlyn0 1 year ago
@Forlyn0 You're the typical brainwashed, delusional Canadian whose world view resembles mental retardation more than it does any actual legitimate outlook.
90% of Canada's yearly economic output depends directly on US-related business. Fully 1/3rd of your workforce is employed by American companies or their subsidiaries.
You say we're dependent on China. Funny, Chinese business is only 4% of US economic output.
Checkmate, DumbfuckCanuck. .
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 2
@MercenarySlick 90% dependant on USA? Hahahaha! 65% of all Canadian goods is sold to USA. Canada is buying 28% of USA economic output. And yes...we kicked your US asses in the war of 1812. You lost in Vietnam. You're losing the war on terror. We beat you in hockey. We invented basketball. 32% of all entertainment watched or listened to on earth is Canadian.
Gordfozzfoster 1 year ago
@Gordfozzfoster You're a perfect example, demonstrating exactly what I said about Canadians. You're a brainwashed, pathetic moron desperate to have pride despite the fact that Canada is a shitty country that is inferior to the US and dependent on scraps from our table.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@Gordfozzfoster 1) 90% of Canada's GDP depends on the US. Only 5%-6% of US GDP depends on Canada.
2) You didn't kick anyone's ass in the War of 1812. You take credit for what British Redcoats did. The only people who were "Canadian" in that war were the militia that the US defeated at York in the first part of the war. The BRITISH REDCOATS that burned the white house weren't even on the continent at that time your capitol surrendered to the US.
3) We didn't lost militarily in Vietnam
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@Gordfozzfoster 4) You say we're losing the war on terror, by that logic you're losing the war on terror. Your country is in Afghanistan. You fucking retarded Canadians like to take credit for your tiny, tiny contribution from your weak, incompetent military. But if the US "loses" you pretend you didn't lose too.
5) HOCKEY? LOL you mean a sport only Canadians care about? We beat you in every single other sport on the planet.
6) HOLY SHIT YOU'RE DUMB. Nobody outside Canada pays attention to you
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@MercenarySlick Our troops are in Afghanistan for one reason only, BECAUSE THE LEADERS OF YOUR COUNTRY ASKED US TO JOIN THEM! If our military is so pathetic, then why were we asked, Proportionally, our soldiers have been paying a heavier price with the loss of life there, and you have the audacity, the nerve, the ARROGANCE to say what you have!?!?! You are a perfect example of what so many people and nations find wrong with the US. You soil the reputation of most Americans.
skatecubed 1 year ago
@skatecubed Canadians have a higher casualty rate because they have inferior tactics. Canadians are a weak link in the chain of forces in Afghanistan. Canadian barely see any real combat like US troops do, yet when Canadians are attacked the attacks are more successful because Canadians have inferior training, tactics, and equipment.
It's funny that you're bragging about the fact that your troops have a higher casualty rate.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@Gordfozzfoster Canada isn't a real country. Your entire existence depends on the US. You have no culture, you just imitate ours. Your entire economy depends on the US. You have no technology, only what we give you.
Your country has never contributed anything important to our species. When the US landed man on the moon and mapped the cosmos Canada couldn't even build a vacuum cleaner.
Canada is a weak, pathetic country. Which is why you have to be retarded (like you) to actually have pride.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@MercenarySlick I assume this is why the Canadian Economy is doing so much better than the US, a country suffering the side effects of an economic melt down created by the sub-prime mortgage crisis, within it's own borders? No Technology? Mmmmkay Hane not contributed to humanity? MMmmmkay, Canada is weak? you are aware that Canada, though having a larger land mass, only has 1/10th the population, right? or were you too caught up in beating on your chest to research that?
skatecubed 1 year ago
@skatecubed The Canadian economy is NOT doing better than the US. This is yet another one of the infinitely moronic lies that you Canadians are taught by your media to help you cope with your inferioty.
Canada had a deeper recession. Canada's bailout was larger compared to GDP than the US bail out. Canada has recovered less robustly than the US, growing less than the US since the recession ended.
Your media focuses on problems in the US, ignoring the WORSE problems in Canada.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@skatecubed It's amazing how brainwashed you Canadians are. EVERY SINGLE THING that you base your pride on is a lie. You have the worst inferiority complex in the world, and your country is so weak and pathetic that you are required, as a necessity, to lie to yourselves to feel like you're better than the US when every intelligent person in the world (which obviously excludes the majority of Canadians) knows that Canada is just a weak, irrelevant leech attached to the US and nothing more.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@Gordfozzfoster LOL look at your fucking profile you dumb Canuck.
Your favorite movies are ALL American. Star Wars, Jaws, Kiss Meets the Phantom of the Park. You're a fan of Stephen King, Kiss etc... all American.
And here you are on an American website. You're using an American browser, an American computer, that runs American software. And you're on the internet which was invented by the US military.
All you Canadians are is a leech. You have ZERO contributions, you just use our shit.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@MercenarySlick and in return, the majority of oil used in the Us is Canadian, how novel...
skatecubed 1 year ago
@skatecubed It's funny how retarded you Canadians are. You all say the same exact things, and you all never have any idea what you're talking about. You regurgitate utter nonsense over and over again. Everything you believe is a lie.
Canada does NOT supply the majority of oil the US uses. Canada is only the biggest single foreign supplier. The US provides the biggest portion of our own oil. And how can you Canadians even brag about the fact that AMERICAN COMPANIES are taking your oil?
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@MercenarySlick U.s. Department of Energy's own statistics tell a different story, %51 of oil used in the US comes from Foreign markets, %23.3 of the imported oil comes from Canada. So the math, that means that approx. %12 of US domestic oil use comes from Canada, Canada is the largest exporter of oil to the US. %11 of the oil produced in the world is from the US, but the US uses %22 of the oil consumed in the world, these are all facts from your own government. My comment was worded badly.
skatecubed 1 year ago
@skatecubed You said the majority of oil used by the US is Canadian. You were wrong. Canada is only the single largest foreign supplier of oil for the US. And what's funny is that you brag about your oil even though it's all American companies, using American technology, who are extracting that oil, and getting it at a cheap price.
We'd get that oil whether or not your nation existed. And again, all business with Canada, including oil, is only 6% of the US GDP. US-business is 90% of Canada's.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@Gordfozzfoster It's funny how all these little claims you make actually mean something.
You invented basketball? You're presenting that fact as if it means you're better than the US. You believe your stupid shit in this weird intellectual void. As if basketball is more important than say the airplane, the internet, the laser, chemotherapy etc... things that the US invented.
"we beat you in hockey"
LOL. We beat you in basketball, football, soccer, MMA, and everything else.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@MercenarySlick Well, we invented insulin which is keeping a whole lot of you fat mouthy fuckers alive LOL!
schlusselmensch 1 year ago
@schlusselmensch Thank you for giving me yet another perfect example to use to demonstrate how retarded Canadians are.
You did not invent insulin. Insulin is a naturally-occurring hormone. The pancreas invented insulin.
And by the way, Canada is also extremely fat... and is getting fatter at a higher rate than the US. In 15 years you'll be fatter. But that won't stop you from calling Americans fat, because you Canadians are the kings of hypocrisy and stupidity.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@schlusselmensch You stupid canuck, Canadians had nothing to do with the discovery of Insulin or the invention of synthetic version. Canadian Dr. Banting who claimed the discovery of insulin stole work from Romanian Nicolae Paulescu, who filed his claim in Paris before Dr. Banting. Dr. Banting acknowledged that Nicolae preceded him and yet Canadians still perpetuate the lie they invented insulin - Canada cowardly stole credit from a poor third world nation. A disgusting and despicable action
ShayisWY 1 year ago
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Fooblestheclown 1 year ago
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Fooblestheclown 1 year ago
@Fooblestheclown There is NO truth behind anything awsomeman said.
The Iroquois engine never even got past the concept stage. Why? Because Canada sucks at buildings things. Canada lacks technological prowess. The entire plane was a disaster, the only parts of it that functioned properly were the ones that the US either helped Canada build or just straight donated to Canada. The radar, avionics, and the engine used in the plane when it actually flew, were all hand-me-downs from the US.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 2
@kgmetcalfe Lol you're a fucking retard.
You Canadians are more ignorant of your own history than anyone else, because it's based entirely on lies which your government and society have concocted in order to create pride at the expense of the US and the expense of the truth.
You're nation of little retards who need praise in order to feel pride, because in realty you're INFERIOR to the US and DEPENDENT on the US for everything. The Avro Arrow myth is just one of many lies you believe.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
this is bs. canada went from when of the top aviation leaders till like dead lasts its pathetic, the arrow even now could top almost all other fights out there
awsomeman192 1 year ago
@awsomeman192 OMG YOU'RE SO FUCKING RETARDED.
1) The entire Arrow project showed that Canada COULD NOT build its own military aircraft. Not only did Canada fail at basically every turn, but the few aspects of the project that actually worked were things that the US gave you to help you, most notably the engines.
2) The Arrow COULD NOT top modern fighters. In fact American planes like the F-106 Delta Dart that was OLDER than the arrow, was actually superior in every single aspect.
Canadafail.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@MercenarySlick wow i had a whole thing typed up b4 u reponded saying how i see u comment on like ever canadian military thing saying how the usa's is better, so you know what kid stop being a wanna historian okay? and second, one of the reasons the avro did not work out was because the usa felt threatened by it so it made canada dis countinue the project on a protection agreement so stfu. so do your research. americafail
awsomeman192 1 year ago
@awsomeman192 Holy shit you're so stupid and brainwashed. EVERY SINGLE THING YOU CANADIANS BELIEVE IS A LIE.
The US never was threatened by the Arrow, the only systems that even worked on the planes were what we gave you. You couldn't even build a jet engine, the ones that were used in the test flights of the Arrow were donated by the US.
You Canadians rewrite history to create pride. The Arrow was a COMPLETE FAILURE, an INFERIOR aircraft that NOBODY IN THE WORLD WANTED.
Go lie some more.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@MercenarySlick the only systems we had the worked was what the states gave us? haha i know your making shit up now you loser the avro was 100% canadian made, your really bad and trying to make your country look good (which is almost impossible to do anyway)
awsomeman192 1 year ago
@awsomeman192 You are a perfect example of what I say about Canadians. You're mindless drones. You're taught lies about your history to help you cope with your TOTAL inferiority and dependence on the US. You defend those lies by lying yourselves when you get your lies proved wrong.
Do 10 seconds of research. The Avro Arrow failed, repeatedly. All the things it was supposed to demonstrate were not achieved by Canadian engineers. You couldn't build an engine for it, you used an American one.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@MercenarySlick There's no debating with MercenarySlick. He's RIGHT! The Iroquois engine was suppose to be something revolutionary and it was never built. Why? was it not built? And yes, Canada does have a huge inferiority complex when it comes to the States. We screwed our nation up even more back in 1982 when we got our Constitution back. Whether it's bilingualism, immigration, and especially our Justice system it's all fucked up. Oh well...at least we still have hockey players.
Fooblestheclown 1 year ago
@awsomeman192 @MercenarySlick the only systems we had the worked was what the states gave us? haha i know your making shit up now you loser the avro was 100% canadian made, your really bad and trying to make your country look good (which is almost impossible to do anyway)
awsomeman192 1 year ago
@awsomeman192 The US did not make Canada discontinue the Arrow. There is no record of any US meddling with the Arrow program. If anything, the US was helpful with the project. Canada developing an aircraft for the defense of North American airspace was very much in US interests as well as Canadian.
LeopoldPlumtree 1 year ago 3
Ok lets say all this crap is true! Why are all the new tech jets like Euro fighter and so on have the same shape as the Arrow? Im a Canadian Mechanical Engineer and I tell you this design is a break through. It cancels the wakes created during the separation of air streams from the surface of the tail wings. Wakes are very turbulent movements created during the separation of of the stream flows off the body of the plane. Wakes cause back pressure and slow the plane. This is why the concord looks
mmitwaly 1 year ago
@mmitwaly You're not a mechanical engineer, first off. You're just one of those Canadians that makes shit up off the top of your head and lies about credentials you don't have in order to lend false credibility to your nationalist desperation.
Secondly, you're saying that new fighters are the same shape as the arrow? Really? Because the Arrow itself was based on copying the contours of American planes. Look up the Convair F-106 Delta Dart. The Arrow was not the originator of that style of plane
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 2
@MercenarySlick The only thing Americans invented are cars that break down, federal reserve, fake economies, wars and mass murders. Stop watching Hollywood movies or you will believe your lies. BTW your average IQ is less then 99. You elected a reverse evolved president twice that brought the world economy to its knees. Please go pay your debts. Save the world from American BS!!!
mmitwaly 1 year ago
@mmitwaly Every single thing that comes out of the diseased minds of you Canadians is a load if hypocritical, ungrateful bullshit.
Every single technology you're using right now was invented by Americans. Canadians are less educated and less intelligent than Americans. Canadians IQ is lower than the average in the US despite the fact the US has tens of millions of illegal immigrants from Mexico and black people.
Canada has contributed ZERO to the world, and is completely dependent on America.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 2
@MercenarySlick right, did u know that canada is americas #1 oil supplyer, or #1 supplyer of lumber, fresh water, or weapons grade uranium... and what do u give the canadians? american movies, american tv shows, and try and give us american filth and moral degeneration... sounds like we need you alot, and americas average citizen IQ is lower then nearly every other industrial country in the world, so get it right before you open your mouth, u just another example of a ignorant dumbass american
101andrewj 1 year ago
@101andrewj Did you know that 90% of your entire economic output is due entirely to the US economy? That almost every single employed person in your country has a job only because of trade and business dealings with the US? Did you know that you have absolutely no technological prowess and that all the technology in your country comes from the US? Including all the tech that is used to extract the resources that your brag about?
The average American IQ is higher than Canadians you moron.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@mmitwaly Here you are, on an American website, using an American browser, on an American computer, that runs an American OS, on the internet which was invented by the US. You live in Canada, a country whose entire economic output is due to American technology and investment, where literally 90% of your work force is employed by American companies or subsidiaries of American companies.
You just said the world copied Canada's shitty Avro Arrow plane, which was actually an inferior copy of F-106
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 2
@mmitwaly Every thing you Canadians believe is a lie designed to make you feel better about your country, which has never created the best of anything, which has never contributed to our species in any meaningful way. Your entire country depends on the country that you think you're better than, and you only exist because of our mercy. The US could cross your border and destroy you before breakfast.
USA: Global superpower, lands man on moon.
Canada: Justin Bieber.
Checkmate, Canuck dumbfuck.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@MercenarySlick this plane was better then any american plane at the time, and it was scrapped for POLITICAL reasons
101andrewj 1 year ago
@101andrewj Seriously, you are proving how Canadians are so fucking retarded that you need to continue to claim somethign that you were taught that makes you proud despite the fact that it was disproved.
The Avro Arrow was INFERIOR in EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF PERFORMANCE compared to OLDER American planes. The Arrow was not good at anything, it was a complete failure. It was canceled because NOBODY ON THE PLANET wanted it, not even your own government. It never got past the development phase.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@sniperguy1995 Nothing you said is "the facts". Every single thing you said was wrong. You Canadians base your entire world view on lies.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 2
your all fucking retarded, at the time the avero was created the liberals were in charge, they burned the designs and assasinated and jailed some of the engineers, fuckk all the americans who hate Canada, the whole world loves us and were one of your only allies but the united states general public is fucking retarded
SnakesWithGuns 1 year ago
@SnakesWithGuns 1) The Avro Arrow was a piece of shit. It was a failure. Canadians have mythologized it to create pride. Just like you always do, since Canada is so pathetic and has nothing to be proud of you Canadians make up lies to base your pride on.
2) Nobody loves Canada, only Canadians. Most countries don't even know who you are, you're just that retarded version of the US that thinks it's special.
3) Most Canadians don't eve know who your Prime Minister is. You're dumber than Americans
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@MercenarySlick but what this video fails to menetion was
1.the arrow was 30 years ahead of its time
2.one of the reasons it was canceled (this is a true fact i did reserch) was because the us did not like because they thought that we would use it against them
3. this is around the time were i think it was the democrats went to palrament and they canceled the project
so yeah the avro arrow was not a complete failuer
sniperguy1995 1 year ago
@sniperguy1995 You're so fucking dumb. You Canadians have NO CLUE what you're talking about.
1) The Arrow was NOT advanced for its time. Older American planes were superior in every way. And Canadians needed American help for almost every part of the plane's development.
2) Complete lie. The US had nothing to do with it. The Arrow was canceled because nobody wanted it, it was a failure, and even the Canadian military didn't want it.
3) The Arrow was a typical Canadian failure. Period.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@MercenarySlick you say canadians are in 'inferior dumbest shit brainwashed morons'
well lest go over some of America's flaws that mak Canada better
1. how many wars have canada started 0 how many has th us started
2.Canda's crime wrate is lower than yours
3.we dont go to war unless you need us like ww2 ww1 afghanistan (thats why we have peace keepers)
4.we don't need to carey a gun to protect our selves ifsome one trys to mug us we KO them
sure we have harper but you had bush
sniperguy1995 1 year ago
@sniperguy1995
1) Has has no power and no responsibilkties in this world, of course you haven't started wars. You've also never won a war in your history either, you've only played small roles in wars that the US did the most in.
2) Your crime rate is only lower because you don't border Mexico and you have like 3 black people. The vast majority of the US has the same or lower crime as Canada.
3) You don't even have the ability to start wars.
4) That's childish and stupid.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
The whole world love you? Most of the world doesn't give a shit Canada exists.
njdevil281 1 year ago 2
the avro arrow was faster than any american jet when it was built probably was arrow was shut down by americans because they were embaressed, it had problems that could have been fixed. this is a theory this gentleman talking is probably mostly right he is a university professor and he was probably a young teenager when this jet was built
Heyfirehey 1 year ago
@Heyfirehey Holy shit you Canadians are so stupid.
The Avro Arrow was slower than American planes that were already in service in the US Air Force. The F106 Delta Dart was superior to the Arrow in every single area of performance.
The Arrow was canceled because it was a shitty plane that nobody wanted, even the Canadian military didn't want it. You Canadians mythologize so many things in your country to create pride and help you cope with your jealousy of the US.
Get a clue, Canuck.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 4
@MercenarySlick
Fuck you.
The Arrow would have been the best if they were given the chance.
Your historians are a joke. You will do anything to show America is so much better when we all know that the Arrow would have proven to be superior to ANYTHING America could ever hope to put out.
America is a fucking joke, and forever will be.
It still can't win a war with poorly armed insurgents in Iraq. Fucking joke.
Just like this fucker in the video, lying through his teeth.
snake2006 1 year ago
@snake2006 Seriously, every single thing you Canadians believe in is a lie and a myth designed to help you have pride. You're the most pathetic country in the history of our species.
The Avro Arrow was a failure. It was inferior in every single way to older American planes. It only went on as long as it did because Canadians wanted to have pride in something. And you only think it was a good aircraft because your government has rewritten history and used the story to create nationalism.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@buckbuckaroo1 You're a fucking retard. Canada is a weak, irrelevant country so you Canadians overcompensate by developing these false beliefs you have. Nobody in the world cares about Canada except Canadians.
Nobody would choose Canada over the US. In fact, millions of Canadians move to the US. If Canada is so great why is 1/10th of your people living in the US and why does an entire province almost 1/5th of your population want to break away and create it's own country.
Canada = Fail.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 4
@MercenarySlick funny cause its the exact opposite, the world loves canada especialy europe because we were the ones who liberated most countries, the world fucking hates Head up there ass America
SnakesWithGuns 1 year ago
@SnakesWithGuns It's funny because you're a Canadian and you're demonstrating exactly what I say about you and your stupid country. Canada did not liberate a single country, Canada's role was so tiny that you were only given the smallest, most unimportant missions. You have never won a single battle in your entire nation's history by yourself. Not one.
The US liberated Europe from the Nazis and Asia from the Japanese. The US won that war, Canada just had a tiny role that you exaggerate.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@buckbuckaroo1 Nobody cares about Canada, that's the thing. You get no attention because you're irrelevant. Hating you would be like hating some retarded person that never leaves their house on the other side of the planet.
The US is hated because we're the most powerful country in the world. We're running the world and we achieve the most. We landed a man on the moon when most countries couldn't even feed their people.
Being hated comes with the territory. People are jealous.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
Like the US has never done that? (rewriting history )
racefan32 1 year ago
@racefan32 The US doesn't need to. Canadians need to rewrite history to create pride, the US has actual, logical reasons to have pride.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
Too bad you didn't bother to check your facts...the performance data you list is for the initial testbed Arrow with the the J-57 engines: less than 12,000lb static thrust. The Iroquois engines slated for the Arrow in its service form developed 19,250 static and 26,000 lbs of thrust in afterburner...the aircraft was fly-by-wire, and had internal weapons bays. Not only are you a bigot, the interview you quote is from an anti-military failed socialist candidate for parliament--real honest.
jackalmate 1 year ago
@jackalmate It's amazing the mental gymnastics you Canadians resort to in order to perpetuate your own delusions.
The Iroquois engines never got passed the development stage, the program was just completely dogged by setbacks. Your country could not develop a high-performance engine. You're basically disregarding the actual performance aspects of the Arrow and claiming its performance would be better in the event that a hypothetical engine was used... an engine you couldn't build. Hilarious.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@MercenarySlick Like I said, it is too bad you didn't bother to do your research...Iroqouis engines were installed in aircraft #5, and it had already begun testing to exceed Mach 2 when the program was cancelled...as for the engines, they are still being used to initiate the backup programs in CANDU nuclear reactors...btw, the engine design team went to GE after Avro folded--it is the team that designed the engines for the SR-71 and F-18...ignorant fool.
pontecanis 1 year ago
@pontecanis Holy shit you Canadians are ridiculous. Lie after lie, the entire basis of your world view is a gigantic steamy pile of shit.
The Iroquois engines were never flight tested on the Arrow, only an B-52 the US loaned you. It never met its performance requirements and it was plagued by problems. You could not build a jet engine worth shit, and you still can't.
The engine on the SR-71 was a Pratt and Whitney, Canadians had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Lie more, Canuck. It's all you have.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 2
@MercenarySlick
I've got your back. I cannot believe some Canadians actually think they desgined the engines to the SR-71, F-18, or much less NASA, which many of them so wrongly claim, Avro engineers launched.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 3
@pontecanis
YOU MUST BE JOKING! You actually think "Canadians" designed the engines for the SR-71??? And the F-18??? Provide a source you ignorant fool. Canadians DO NOT design the American military, see ITAR regulations. While you're at it, try to understand that your prcious Avro Arrow was NEVER actually finished and MANY of the technicians and engineers were BRITISH (including the cheif engineer and the cheif designer), thus further deminishing yoor OVERLY patriotic claims. Prick.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 2
@jackalmate
Sorry, but not even "Wikipedia" can save your sorry asses from the facts behind this failed aircraft. Canada did not (and currently DOES NOT) possess the engineering corps smart enough and big enough to build a world class military. Good night you "peaceful nation" you.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 3
@JohnQRandom ~ I like you...you're funny...and ignorant...there are far too many films of the aircraft flying, and witnesses to it flying over Toronto, including myself, to lend any credence to your nonsense. You might cite for me regulations that state friendly foreign national resident aliens are unable to be employed by companies such as Pratt & Whitney, GE,Lockheed, etc, especially as they had Canadian subsidiaries. As for NASA, check Jim Chamberlain out...then you may apologise
jackalmate 1 year ago
@jackalmate~ By the way, you might also check out the F-86---the most effective version of the F-86 was the F-86F, with engine designed by Orenda, and built under license by Canadair, Ltd., in the Province of Quebec." The final variant, the Mark 6, is generally rated as having the highest capablities of any Sabre version made any where".Joos, Gerhard W. Canadair Sabre Mk 1-6, Commonwealth Sabre Mk 30-32 in RCAF, RAF, RAAF, SAAF, Luftwaffe & Foreign Service. Osprey PLL, 1971.
jackalmate 1 year ago
@jackalmate
PS, your test pilot was Polish. If Canadians couldn't even fly it, how could they have invented it, much less NASA's lunar space program, which on the odd days of the week you claim was filmed in Arizona. Get your shit together my friend, there's a world out there. ; )
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 3
Sorry my ignorant Canadian friend, but your precious country is in desperate need of engineers, and always ahas been, which is why your immigrants are hand picked (many Asians) to ramp up your pathetically small engineer corps. Research "Wenher Vonbraun", then you will know which foreigners had a the biggest hand in NASA. There never was a "brain drain" from Canada to the US (as Wiki claims), and the head technicians for the Arrow were "British" (John Hodge, James Floyd).
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 3
@JohnQRandom~ I see: Chief Aerodynamicist..."James A. (Jim) Chamberlin (1915-1981) was a Canadian aerodynamicist who contributed to the design of the Canadian Avro Arrow, NASA Gemini space capsule and Apollo Lunar Module (LM).NASA awarded Jim Chamberlin its Exceptional Scientific Achievement, Exceptional Engineering Achievement, Exceptional Service, and Gold medal." wikiped
jackalmate 1 year ago
I guess those NASA guys lie through their teeth...when Armstrong, Aldrin, and Collins rode in the big tickertape parade in NYC, Jim Chamberlain sat in the car directly behind theirs...there were 25 people in the design team that went to NASA---all from AVRO, all worked on the Arrow...guess those NASA guys were real idiots alright...
jackalmate 1 year ago
@jackalmate
LOL! That would amount to ONE Canadian "contributed" to a mechanical piece of a lunar mission many people don't even believe happened. Since when does this mean that 25 Canadians "led" the engineer corps for NASA?? The Avro was unfinished and over-hyped by overzealous Canadians like yourself my friend, and the engines of SR-71 were not desgined by incompetent Canadians who failed to deliver for their own aircraft. Editing wiki to your liking doesn't make it true dear.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 6
@JohnQRandom ~~See the vid:" Avro Arrow (CF105) Tribute" by sythewave---it has lots of footage of the aircraft you say never was completed clearly flying and landing--so much for your jingoist claims of noncompletion...Chamberlain and 24 members of his team were the lead engineers for Gemini and LEM programs, not NASA as a whole, stupid---I notice you ignored the Orenda F-86F data, as you tend to ignore much---like the design team at P&W--
jackalmate 1 year ago
BTW, you might want to check out P&W Canada's PT6---In US military use, they are designated as T74 or T101, depending on fixed wing or helicopter...more incompetence and nonexistent products used even by the US military? Or just another example of how jingoist twits ignore work of countries other than US? Time to grow up and develop a mature world view...
jackalmate 1 year ago
I haven't been ignoring the engneering on behalf of other countries my friend, you have. I am simply saying that Canada's contributions to NASA and your ENTIRE military have been small by comparison to the US, Russia, China etc. You are a typical "insecure" Canadian with an identity crisis, screaming for attention by bringing up any little detail that Canadians may have had a hand in, but never were "depended" on. There's a world outside Canada my friend, I suggest you get out and see it.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 4
I am not the jingoist here my friend, it is you. Apparently you are incapable of understanding this video, as it clearly states the truth by a Canadian professor who is well educated on it. I didn't look into the F-86 data, however I did look into the claim that the engines of the F-18 and SR-71 are (were) "Canadian made", which I found no proof supporting it whatsoever. Nor did I find anything supporting your claim that the "design team" of P&W are Canadians. Provide an online source.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 4
@JQR--as previously stated Michael Bliss, quoted in the program, is an antimilitarist socialist --one of his books is called "Towards a One-Party State"--he is neither authoritative nor well-respected in the scientific community, but a professor of History with NO aeronautic credentials at all---his specialties are the history of medicine/medicare and economics--see NASA Space Task Group/Jim Chamberlain/Shutting Down the National Dream--YT does not permit listing urls and won't show
jackalmate 1 year ago
@jackalmate
"Michael Bliss is not well respected by the scientific community"
Provide an on line source for your claim.
(Bullshitter!! LOL!)
JohnQRandom 1 year ago
"Michael Bliss' specialties are the history of medicine/medicare and economics"
Which, if it is true, you constantly boast to Americans on the "free health care" threads. Pack it up asshole, and move on to another thread where you might have more luck finding someone who doesn't buy into your bullshit. Your claims are a play on words
"P&W design team is Canadian"
"SR-71 engines are Canadian made"
"25 Avro engineers became *managers* and *lead engineers* of NASA"
Wrong Prick. LOL!
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 5
@jackalmate
As far as the Gemini mission and or others lunar missions, it's funny how when you are desperate to point out the so-called "Canadian think tank" in NASA, you brag that a mere 25 Canadians (some of whom were British, as were the chief designers and engineers of the Arrow) made a contribution. Then of course the next day you're crying out that lunar missions never took place and were filmed in Nevada. It must be horrible being an overly-patrioctic Canadian, so confusing, LOL!
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 4
@JohnQRandom Interesting--I never claimed the engines were Canadian made, but that the design team from Orenda went to Pratt&Whitney, both in the USA and Canada, primarily valued for their expertise in designing and working working with titanium and axial-flow turbines; the F-86 Orenda engine was designed and manufactured in Canada: nor did I make any claim the lunar landings never occurred--anyone reading these posts will easily see the distortions you have made.
jackalmate 1 year ago
Who gives a shit if the design team was valued??? Who Isn't?? LOL!! You've been exposed little man, and yor debate amounts to nothing more than the ramblings of a 13 year old dying for attention, as stated earlier. Your "wikipedia" source (which I personally edited) is switched back to the "Canadian version" daily, and your engineer corps is EXTREMELY small. The "F-86, WOW! Welcome back to reality tough guy, like I said, must be diffucult being Canadian, LOL! Congrats on P&W Canada! LOL!
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 4
@jackalmate
"Prat and Whitney" is a US company and was founded in 1925. "Prat and Whitney Canada" was founded in 1928 and it is a "division" of the US company. Is this what you meant by "Canadians" working for Prat and Whitney?? LOL! There are people now working for both companies all over the world. Please put your flag away, and I still haven't found anything that says the SR-71 engines were designed by Canadians working for Prat and Whitney Canada. You lose again sweetheart.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 4
I don't understand why you hate Canadians so much? And I didn't want to do this, but this "Americans are vastly more educated than Canadians" I don't believe is true...
Average Can. IQ: 103
Average U.S. IQ: 98
1 in 5 American's believe the sun revolves around the earth.
60% of American's didn't know the sun was a star
Oh yeah, and Canada has free health care.
glebzy9 1 year ago
@glebzy9 Idiot.
Canada's IQ is 97, the US is 98.
But IQ is about race. The US has blacks and latinos that make up 1/3rd of the population. They have low IQs in every country they live in, it brings down the national average. The average IQ of a white American is 106, which is on par with South Korea and Hong Kong. The average IQ of a black person in the US is 85, so it brings down the national score while having NOTHING to do with the country.
Meanwhile, whites in Canada IQ is 102...
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@MercenarySlick
Controversial comment, but there is a lot of truth to it I'm afraid.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago
@MercenarySlick you wrote "The average IQ of a black person in the US is 85, so it brings down the national score while having NOTHING to do with the country."
Um ... black people have nothing to do with the country? Would you say this to your president?
infindebula 1 year ago
@infindebula Not all black people have low IQs, but the average IQ of a black person is significantly lower than other races. The fact that the US has so many black people and Canada does not skews the statistics, you end up comparing two factors that you BELIEVE measure the ability of the country to create intelligent people, but it's really about demographics.
If you look at each race within the US, the IQ on average is higher than people of the same race from other countries.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@infindebula And again, the vast majority of people in Canada are white and the few minorities Canada has are mostly Asians, so Canada should have a huge, huge advantage statistically but that's not the case. So when you adjust for racial factors and actually gauge the ability of a system to create high IQ, the US outperforms Canada by a huge margin.
And Jewish Americans and Japanese Americans have the highest IQs as demographic groups in the world. Higher than Israel/Japan.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@glebzy9 Canada doesn't have free health care you brainwashed retarded Canadian. It is funded in taxes.
And your healthcare sucks. You wait in line for long periods of time and you're less likely to survive from every single treatable disease. That's why your politicians come to the US to get healthcare. Your government thinks shitty Canadian care is ok for sheep like you, but they think they're too good for it so they come to get treated in the US.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@glebzy9
"Average Can. IQ: 103
Average U.S. IQ: 98"
Please provide an online source for this.
"1 in 5 American's believe the sun revolves around the earth."
See the video here on youtube called: "French guy think sun orbits the earth", it's from the show "Who wants to be a Millionare" in France. You can EASILY take a poll in Canada concerning this question, ask 5 people, and wait for ONE idiot to
say the sun orbits the Earth. Think before you post my friend.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago
@glebzy9
"60% of American's didn't know the sun was a star"
See the youtube video: "French guy thinks the Sun orbits the Earth". It's from "Who wants to be a millionare" in France. (Please note what the audience thought). Polls such as these are controversial my friend, and can easily be made to look Canadians look stupid as well.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago
canadians re-write history? hahahaha lets see....u claim u won the war of 1812- lie, you claim you won WW1 for the allies- lie, America has never won a war without being bailed out by another country- true...for god sakes you had to turn to the french to win your own independence! then again i guess this shows that the country with a shit education and a bunch of fat people can create some pretty good stories
LiLRuss31 1 year ago
@LiLRuss31 You're an idiot. The US has never been bailed out by another country in a war. The exact opposite is true, the US has regularly had to bail out other countries. And the US did technically win the War of 1812, because the US was the only side to gain anything. The Brits ended their illegal incursions into US territory, they ceased impressment of US sailors and piracy against US shipping.
The British gained nothing, and your country didn't exist so you gained nothing either.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 4
@LiLRuss31 Canada has the most unimportant military history out of pretty much any country. That's why you rewrite history to create pride, claiming you won wars that took place before you existed. You live in a pathetic, feckless country so you've created a false reality in your heads to make your existence more tolerable.
Canada is a nation inhabited by brainwashed, uneducated, mental midgets.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 2
@MercenarySlick Yea it's the most unimportant military in history, which is the same reason America needed it in the world war.
Islamicmilitant 1 year ago
@Islamicmilitant America never needed Canada in "the world war". You don't know what in the hell you're talking about you dumb ignorant Canadian.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 2
@MercenarySlick Oh yea, Canada just came in for the fuck of it. You tell me I'm a dumb ignorant Canadian, I've seen your stereotypes pussy. So eat a dick, and hop off my scrotum.
Islamicmilitant 1 year ago
@LiLRuss31 Shit education? Americans are vastly more educated than Canadians and our universities are the best in the world.
More proof of how brainwashed Canadians are, you actually believe you're more educated than Americans. Canada... the country that has invented nothing of importance, has people that think they're better than the country that invented the airplane, the internet, and basically every other foundational aspect of modern science and technology.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@MercenarySlick
I completely agree. On every Avro thread there are Canadians who post daily comments about how the US canceled the aircraft. Their identity crisis/inferiority complex has driven many of them to buy into ANYTHING that's remotely anti-American without even checking into the sources to prove its validity. They are taught anti-American jargon in their schools, and have a twisted view of the US all together. Have a look at the video: "No USA flags on Grainville street?".
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 3
the avro arrow was the best plane of its time and the stupid americans cancelled it because the dont want to be beat by other countries
blacknight560 1 year ago
@blacknight560 You Canadians are brainwashed idiots.
The Avro Arrow was an inferior aircraft that was worse in every single area of performance compared to older American planes. Your government canceled it because it was expensive and shitty and nobody on the planet wanted to buy it, no even your own government.
You Canadians rewrite history in order to create pride, because your country is such a gigantic piece of shit with zero accomplishments.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@MercenarySlick I'm responding to your post from a month ago, directed toward blacknight56.
"gigantic piece of shit with zero accomplishments" is a bit harsh. Two pretty significant accomplishments that immediately come to mind are insulin and the telephone.
Also: the Arrow would have been merely been cancelled if only "because it was expensive and shitty" - but why was all evidence of it ordered to be destroyed?
infindebula 1 year ago
@infindebula
1) Canada didn't invention insulin, it's a naturally occuring hormone created by the pancreas.
2) Canada did not invent the telephone, the fact that you all believe you did though is proof of the fact that you have no accomplishments so you have to rewrite history to pretend you do.
The telephone was invented by Alexander Graham Bell. He was a Scottish-American. He invented the telephone in the US, as a US citizen, under a US patent, assisted by Americans. He was NEVER CANADIAN.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@infindebula I'm absolutely amazed that an entire country is entirely retarded. That is Canada. You all believe the same shit, you've never done any research. You claim credit for inventions that your country had literally NOTHING TO DO WITH. You rewrite history to create sources of pride and every single one of you fucktards beliefs it with zero doubt, never checking the facts.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 2
@MercenarySlick"You claim credit for inventions that your country had literally NOTHING TO DO WITH." You obviously need to do some more "research." The 1923 Nobel Prize in medicine went to a Cdn and a Scott, who in turn shared it with a third Cdn. Scientific discoveries are the result of building on previous work, and sharing information and research, just like how rocket science was pioneered and invented in Germany by Nazis who moved to the U.S. & made the moon landings possible.
stama9 1 year ago
@stama9 Modern rocket science was pioneered and invented by the US. Robert Goddard invented liquid-fueled rocketry that the Nazis themselves based their designs on.
Having a handful of Germans move to the US does not mean the accomplishments that involved literally tens of thousands of American scientists and engineers is attributable to them, especially when Werner Von Braun himself based his early rocket designs on previous American ones.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 12
@MercenarySlick wrong again dip shit, the nazis were the first to use fuel powered rockets,
the v1 then the V2, you americans think so highly of yourselves and thats what leads to every empires downfall
SnakesWithGuns 1 year ago
@SnakesWithGuns Seriously, Canadian, shut the fuck up. You have no clue what you're talking about, you Canadians always say the dumbest shit., You're a nation of brainwashed morons.
The first liquid fueled rocket was invented by Robert Goddard, an American. The Nazis based their designs on blueprints that he had already created years earlier.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@kinglenny31 Canada is a joke, as evidenced by this video. You take pride in your failures by rewriting history.
Funny you Canadians all think the Avro Arrow was awesome despite the fact it was inferior in every regard compared to American planes. The Arrow had such short range it couldn't even patrol the arctic... the mission it was designed for.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 2
@MercenarySlick You're a little too insulting about Canada and Canadians, but I agree the arrow was overhyped.
VerbalBlitzkrieg 1 year ago 3
American Propaganda
Vanessatterfly 1 year ago
@Vanessatterfly From a Canadian...
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 2
@MercenarySlick I said American, wtf
Vanessatterfly 1 year ago
@Vanessatterfly Epic fail...You're obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, eh? This is a CANADIAN journalist interviewing a CANADIAN history professor from the University of Toronto. His answers are accurate, supported by verifiable facts, but even if it were "propaganda", it would be CANADIAN propaganda.
You might want to learn, and live by that great quote by American President Abraham Lincoln: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
EngineerAeronautical 1 year ago 3
@Vanessatterfly
A "history professor at the University of Toronto" hardly constitutes as "American propaganda". The Canadian made film depicting Canada's view of the history of this plane is a travesty.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 3
wow the comment thread here is so informative (and entertaining). I had no idea the arrow was so inferior. I remember being so proud about it when I was younger watching that documentary, assuming it was all true. I didn't cross my mind to fact check what was being shown on the CBC..but I guess I know better now
radscorpion8 1 year ago 3
What an idiotic video created by a blatant Anti-Canadian. It's the same story elsewhere, with the TSR2 in the UK. Americans get pushy with the government and the government disrupts military projects - then the whole plan to replace the TSR2 with the shitty F111 goes pear shaped. And as for people saying the Arrow is "the best fighter around", how do you even know that applies to todays standards? Many pilots still regard the MIG-21 as the greatest fighter aircraft ever made.
nicck 1 year ago
1:45 - The woman: "Let's go back to the reasons why the Arrow was cancelled" ("At least say it was the Americans behind its cancelation!)
Professor: "The cost was out of control, the company producing the aircraft had a terrible track record of not being able to do things on time or stay on their budget, couldn't meet the governments requirements, no other country wanted to buy this plane not to mention the founders of the project were going to cancel it anyway..."
Woman: "hm..."
JohnQRandom 1 year ago 13
This guy is so full of SHIT!
GodivaGirl1 1 year ago
I'm Canadian and I know that there's nothing amazing about this airplane. Canadians made it; so what? We make one plane and everyone goes crazy. Americans are much better at creating planes because they tend to focus on that topic, whereas Canadians don't really need all these fancy aircrafts because we wouldn't use them! This whole topic on the arrow is annoying just let it die.
kapquarfa 1 year ago
@kapquarfa The Arrow was an amazing airplane. The main problem is that some forget it was but one in a parade of amazing airplanes.
LeopoldPlumtree 1 year ago 6
Make up lies eh? So not true....the plane was a fine example of the best technology of its time...the first jet to have CNC made parts on ANY jet...which meant precision....but of course your little nerd brain doesn't understand that concept...
williamandsusie 1 year ago
@williamandsusie Holy shit you're dumb.
The plane was inferior in EVERY SINGLE PERFORMANCE ASPECT compared to American planes that were already flying.
The fact that you're still pretending the Avro Arrow was special is absolute proof of exactly what I insulted you Canadians about. You have to believe lies to feel better about your country. You have to rewrite history and pretend that your SHITTY airplane that had TERRIBLY SHORT RANGE and was SLOWER than other planes was some glorious thing.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 2
@williamandsusie: Advanced technology, sure. The "best technology of it's time", surely not. NC / CNC was invented and developed in the USA, starting in the early 1940's. CNC technology in the 1950's was in it's infancy. The only advantage it would've had at that point in regard to "precision", would be in repeatability of machining hundreds of parts. A single, or handful of parts could be machined and finished manually just as precisely at the time.
EngineerAeronautical 1 year ago 5
Arrow was a failure? At least we didn't have to outsource to make the damn plane.... there were made on our soil, by our own hands....you guys rely on china to make your shit....also your avionics mad in china, lol.
williamandsusie 1 year ago
@williamandsusie lol you're a psychotic idiot. The US is THE MOST independent airplane producer in the world, especially in military aircraft. The Avro Arrow itself was based on modified airframes of other planes and you Canadians couldn't even fucking build engines for it, you used American ones.
It's amazing how EVERY SINGLE THING you Canadians brag about is a lie. You're hypocritical idiots.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@MercenarySlick they were building iriquos engeins for it, completly canadian, and it would have broken mach 3
Trevor10 1 year ago
@Trevor10 The Iroquois-powered Arrow 2 was to be a mach 2+ aircraft. It would not have even approached mach 3. It was airframe heating, not engine power, that was the limiting factor in top speed. Hypothetical mach 3 versions of the Arrow were being conceptualized, but like the F-108 were a long way from becoming a reality.
LeopoldPlumtree 1 year ago 3
@LeopoldPlumtree The Iroquois engines were never going to be operational. Canada simply did not have the technological prowess. The Avro Arrow was a turkey, Canadians need pride so they glorify it. It was inferior in every single performance area compared to American planes. And the most notable problem with the Arrow was its cripplingly short range. 400 mile combat, compared to the 1800 mile range of the American Delta Dart. The Arrow was an absolutely abysmal failure, useless.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago
@MercenarySlick How do we know Canada didn't have the technological prowess to see through the development of the Iroquois? Sure, it had some teething issues (like the uncontained turbine failure that occurred on a B-47/CL-52 test), but there's not much reason to think they wouldn't have been able to iron out those issues.
The F-106 did have greater range, but was the disparity actually 1400 miles? Are you sure you're comparing ranges without external fuel carriage?
LeopoldPlumtree 1 year ago 2
@LeopoldPlumtree: I personally believe if the Arrow would have been funded and developed for another couple of years, Avro / Orenda would have worked out the kinks. I think the Arrow had the potential to be developed into an excellent Interceptor for the RCAF that would have equaled, and possibly slightly exceeded the F-106 performance (Mach 2.3). However, the limited range of the Arrow would continue to be problematic. It would be impossible to solve without using large external stores.
EngineerAeronautical 1 year ago 2
@LeopoldPlumtree: Which I believe would be rejected as unacceptable. The other option would have been to build an infrastructure of bases around Canada to support the Arrow. Between 1-3 dozen "mini-bases" with just enough personnel and equipment to fuel and maintain the Arrow to accomplish it's mission would have worked I think. The problem with that proposal of course, is the added expenditure to build all those bases. It would have surely sunk the program even if other cost overruns didn't.
EngineerAeronautical 1 year ago 2
@MercenarySlick
Dude, you're a prime reason as to why people believe that Diefenbaker was a Yankee-lover and canceled the Arrow due to pressure from America. People think it was canceled because America just HAS to be the BEST military power in the world and they can't stand it when they are outdone.
zeroskater133 1 year ago
@zeroskater133 Canada never outdid the US. You Canadians ALWAYS base your pride on complete lies. The US never pressured Canada to cancel the arrow. The Canadian government could not afford it, NOBODY wanted the plane, not even the Canadian air force, and the plane had failed to provide any capability that other planes didn't have. The Arrow was a FAILURE.
Look at the video description. The Arrow was INFERIOR in EVERY SINGLE PERFORMANCE ASPECT compared to an older US plane.
Go cry, Canuck.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 4
@MercenarySlick
If you would read what I said in my other post rather than assuming that you are right, as is typical American fashion, you would notice that I also have information to back up my point of view, only mine is from a much more reputable source than a video description. I don't care what the video description says, you could've put whatever you wanted there. But I will admit, there are other factors that led to the cancelation, like BOMARC. And the RCAF did want the Arrow.
zeroskater133 1 year ago
@zeroskater133 Lol you said "wikipedia ftw'. The list of aspects of the Avro Arrow compared to the American F-106 Delta Dart ARE on wikipedia.
You Canadians really need to get a grip on reality. You always rewrite history to your hearts' content because you're desperate for pride. The Arrow was not a good plane, it was a failure in every way. Even if it ever was deployed, it had such terribly short range that it could not have achieved its mission as an interceptor/patrol aircraft.
MercenarySlick 1 year ago 3
@MercenarySlick
Sorry about all this, if you'll look at the other comments from EngineerAuronautical, I admit that it wasn't better than those planes. When I was doing my research on the Arrow, the page conveniently didn't mention any aircraft superior to it. Now that I finally know about these planes, I realize that they are better. I'll also raise the same question to you: Since the Arrow wasn't the best plane of its time, why did they destroy everything related to it?
zeroskater133 1 year ago 2