@Kathryn50320 Keep in mind... if he is not all good but all powerful... just because he does stuff for a reason doesnt make it better then it happening randomly. It's like making a Sims family and taking away their fridge so they all starve and die. Yes, you have the power. No, it isn't good. Yes, there is a reason. But it's hardly a comfort.
@AChristianapologist But if God is all knowing why did he create you, then placed you here, if he already knew what the outcome would be? I am an ex-Christian. Why am I here if he knew I would cease to worship him, thus requiring an eternity of suffering? And isn't it odd that you could live a life of pure evil and still make it to heaven on your death bed, but someone who lived a a perfectly life goes to hell because they weren't a christian?
It's funny how most theist like to say that atheists BELIEVE god doesn't exists. Do you believe zeus doesn't exist? or fairies or other myths?. The conclusion that something doesn't exist isn't based on faith, but on the lack of evidence supporting its existence. They just want to make us feel like not believing in god somehow requires faith.
the triple o god surely cannot exist without obvious contradiction. great video! I hope people arguing about this subject can become open to the fact that what we believe COULD be wrong!
Stop talking about "God", something which you believe doesn't even exist, it is even more foolish to argue about something which you don't believe even exists, can you waste anymore of your time on something which you believe doesn't even exist. Can you be so caught up by a fool? That makes you equally if not more foolish.
@SuperSikNasty How is disproving a harmful delusion held by many people foolish? Oh, wait, you're a theist, I can tell by your copy and paste argument.
@N33DL3R Dude what do I care whether god exists or not! Wasting your time on that, trying to prove or disprove is completely foolish because it's impossible. Whether god exists or not is not my problem, that doesn't change anything in anyone's life except if you are foolish enough to care and spend your TIME on it. I care more about my TIME not what other people care or believe or think.
Is it really your opinion that evil is a problem for god? Is that 'Your' personal opinion or someone else's? In my opinion, evil exists only in the realm of human beings.
"I wonder on what basis YOU can call something "moral". What if the person next to you opposes your view? How do you decide what is moral? And most importantly: HOW?"
Graham Oppy offers a dissent, acknowledging that "[m]any philosophers seem to suppose that [Plantinga's free will defense] utterly demolishes the kinds of 'logical' arguments from evil developed by Mackie" but continuing "I am not sure this is a correct assessment of the current state of play"
Actually, most of my atheist friends don't believe evil or good actually exists, since there there is no absolute morality.
If EVERYTHING is just matter and energy, and subject to evolution by chance and necessity, then there is NO MORALITY... Nothing really matters. Like Dawkins rightfully pointed out: it's only DNA, and we dance to it's music.
Dostoievsky was right when he said "if God doesn't exist, everything is permitted".
"Actually, most of my atheist friends don't believe evil or good actually exists, since there there is no absolute morality."
Um, I'm an atheist and I think good and evil ACTIONS exist - but I don't believe in an "absolute" morality - and I am pretty sure your atheist friends would agree with me.
I think you misunderstood them because you have a particular belief system that you are trying to pigeonhole them into...
@Nihm420 Sorry to say, but your position is illogical. There can be no real "morality" if you're an atheist. Theses actions may SEEM LIKE, or LOOK moral, but that's not real morality.
If you're an atheist, you must then be
1. Reductionist
2. Determinist
There is absolutely no place for real morality in this context.
I'm not the one who misunderstands. Atheists are TERRIBLE philsophers. Most of them don't realize what their position implies.
@Nihm420 That's an argument Hitchens likes to use a lot i.e. when he challenges people to find a moral action a beliver can do an atheist can't. But that has NOTHING to do with anything. Nobody ever said you can't be moral with you don't believe in God. What we say is that you need God to call anything "moral" in the first place. You might reject God, but it doesn't prevent you from living according to His moral laws.
Just as you might reject gravitational law, but will fall off the building...
@Nihm420 Really... who old are you? You have such a puerile view on the subject, one can't help but wonder...
I wonder on what basis YOU can call something "moral". What if the person next to you opposes your view? How do you decide what is moral? And most importantly: HOW
Why should anything be moral at all, if, like the atheists say, we're only MATTER organised by the evolutionary process guided ONLY BY chance and necessity
My VIEW as far as i have described it to YOU is that I think YOUR view is retarded.
Because, if you need the words of a dusty old book, written by ignorant men in some backwater berg in ancient Palestine that claims to be the opinions of what some sky-god thinks are right and wrong to be able to tell that in war for instance, it is unjust to kill innocent women and children, or that slavery is wrong, then you are incapable of thinking for yourself.
"I think YOUR view is retarded" That's doesn't solve any problem.
" if you need the words of a dusty old book, [...] then you are incapable of thinking for yourself." I challenge you to find me where I say explicitally "I need the Bible to think for myself". You're putting word in my mouth, and in the mouths of theists.
Really, who old are you? Your view is indeed very puerile. You can't see pass your own little point of view.
Killing innocent women and children AND slavery is just fine with the old testament god,
So for instance, since the bible doesn't contain ONE FUCKING line that prohibits slavery, but MANY verses PROSCRIBING slavery... what is YOUR basis for saying slavery is wrong, since it it A'ok with the God of the Bible...?
@Nihm420 It's not because it's "in the Old Testement" that it's "fine". The theists don't say we NEED some sort of authority in the Scirptures to tell us what is right or wrong.
I believe we are created in the image of God, i.e. we have an inner moral sense. To answer the question very simply, my basis is myself.
BUT, that being said, I'll ask you this: where does my INNER MORALITY come from? To save you some time, I'll say that "evolution based morality" is not suffisent
Oh... and I could be 5... or 85... I could tell you my age and you would STILL never know.
But I can think for myself, and I don't need the words of a fairy tale book, nor the promise of heaven or the fear of hell to recognize the wisdom and value of goodness and good deeds.
@Nihm420 Well that's good that you can think for yourself. I too can do that. But do recognize that "promise of heaven" or "fear of Hell" was maybe necessary in a primitive society.
If you were born 5000 years ago, and I said to you "do good unto others, even the ones you now consider your ennemies", you'd probably thought I was a mad man.
All I'm saying is, if you want to be fair with Christians: stop quoting the Old Testament, and start quoting the New Testament, where all is fullfilled.
"All I'm saying is, if you want to be fair with Christians: stop quoting the Old Testament, and start quoting the New Testament, where all is fulfilled."
@Nihm420 - i'm looking forward to seeing your explanation of why it still has the OT, given you are such an enthusiast to preserve your jewbag conspiracy, so you can go around posting lies about how reality works.
=~~~what definition of reality is your sick mind using as a startoff point that excludes 'the paranormal' entirely?~~~=
@Nihm420 - you were here before i got here, and your comments prove you crazy - a line-tower of ideas your evil mind seems to download from - your satanic masters you channel your thoughts from,
or you'd be able to answer this,
=~~~what definition of reality is your sick mind using as a startoff point that excludes 'the paranormal' entirely?~~~=
@Nihm420 - but how do you go about defending the way you define what reason and evidence is?
yes we know - because of indoctrination of your ideas - that you consider evidence as provable within various set parameters, but that is no different to the religions you are against.
eg you claim channeling isn't true - based on what? based on your choosing to define reality according to presuppositons, rather than being open to truth and going from there.
@Nihm420 - you have no studies disproving it, is the real point.
so why do you choose to disbelieve things - when they are not disproven?
where is this manifesto your kind run to? can normal people like me have a looky at it? or do i need to learn satanic-speak and get a brain implant to stop me thinking first?
If the few tests that WERE conducted showed it all to be a scam, that DISproves it! So if somebody out there IS really channeling "spirits", then they need to step up and prove it.
Besides, stating that you believe in something BECAUSE it hasn't been disproven yet is a truly asinine reason to think something is true.
@Nihm420 - you're evil and stupid, you're the Protocols of the Elders of Zions wet dream, how they wish all humans could become subhuman scum like you and them so their takeover of reality would be complete.
@Nihm420 Mt 5.17 refers specifically to the 10 Commandments. The whole Thora is not considered to be a perfect expression of God's Law. As for the prophets, he doesn't abolish, because he is of course the one they were talking about.
I'm not saying the OT should be ignored. But not all of it should be applied textually. Even the modern Jews don't stone people to death anymore... lol
@Nihm420 That's what I meant with "puerile" view. You can't see past these trivialities... You're not a very good philosophers... But that's understandable if you're 14 years old...
One easy question... a part from some quotations (taken out of context) in some YT videos, have you ever read the WHOLE BIBLE?
1. If there is no God, then this is not outragious. But then, why do you take it as an example? Clearly, you have some "higher moral stand" on the question, and God's hypothetic existence tortures you because of him taking no action. Why don't adress the question of trees being cut down, or millions of pigs being slaughtered each year? Why give any human life any more significance than that of any other living creature? I argue that, just there, is a sign of God.
2. What is it exactly you would like God to do about the problem? What kind of miracle are we talking about? Ask yourself if, after that, life would still make sense?
I don't know if you believe life has a meaning... but certainly if God instantaneously saved 6000000 children from starvation, then you'd be asking for way more than that... The next logical step would be to stop ALL SUFFERING in the world. But surely without suffering, like has no meaning.
@Nihm420 Well no, because creating a world free of evil WITH free will would imply casting out of "the world" those who commit evil. But then that's just called Heaven.
Like I said, in Heaven, as soon as you commit evil, then you're not part of Heaven anymore, by definition. By doing evil, you REJECT the state of grace. So of course there is "free will", and so are consequences. There can be no evil in Heaven, but that's not because there is no free will, that's because you cask yourself out.
@Gazdo01 - the problem with the idea that you cast yourself out in choosing to violate anothers free-will is that - it doesn't seem to be the case why everyone is here, in this world full of evil that they have little control over in terms of how the various dysfunctions affect their life.
eg - if i am here for casting myself out, why don't i know what i did then? and how come there isn't even a way to find that out? surely you'd know if it worked the way you're saying it does.
Well what are you arguing now? You said that Alvin Plantiga's Free Will defense laid the matter to rest... Plantinga's argument is that even though God is omnipotent, it is possible that it was not in his power to create a world containing moral good but no moral evil - if you say there is free will in heaven then you are rejecting Plantiga's Free Will defense... there was no need to have this world in the first place if he could just have us all live in heaven with rules.:)
@Nihm420 1. I never invoked Plantiga, I just got in the course of an already going discussion
2. If you sin, then by definition you're not in Heaven. Heaven is being in the presence of the beatific vision. You're seeing "Heaven" as this material world, in which free will allows you to produce evil. That's not the case.
In the end, your argument is: if God is really omnipotent, then He could have made made a world where evil actions are the ultimate good. To me, that's just non-sense.
To your 2 - That's not my argument at all.... what you are saying is silly. In fact now that I see that that is what you think, I wonder If you even understand The Problem of Evil...
@thybigballs I'm not a theologian, and if the pope's POV goes against mine, then stick with the pope. But I'd say that what you call "heaven" is not a "place" different from anywhere else. Being in "heaven" means you're in the presence of God, i.e. the BEATIFIC VISION. Being out of Heaven is a free choice that one makes by freely rejecting God, who is the Truth, the Life, the Way, etc... Yes in Heaven we have free will... But as soon as one would use it to sin, he would be casted away.
@Nihm420 - 'So that means GOD CAN create a world free of evil without violating free will...'
yes that'd be easy, all you do is prevent individuals free-wills from interfereing with other individuals free-wills. so someone in 'heaven' has free-will, meaning they can make of their reality whatever they want to & are effectively self-sufficient - and no-one else could make a free-will choice to change or disrupt that, so everyone is protected automatically.
@thybigballs When did I say humans are "meant" to suffer? I think I was trying to attempt an explanation as of why suffering exists, and how life would be absurd with no suffering at all.
But then again, it is the greatest problem. One can only begin to comprehend by looking at Jesus' own suffering on the cross.
I think I know where you're going with that question... Perhaps I can ask you whether or not Adam and Eve were "fully" human before being aware of the existence of good and evil?
"There can be no real "morality" if you're an atheist."
Yes, actually, there can be. One need simply define what they want as the result, and morality can be determined from that. No theist can have morality though, as their morality is whatever god said was good at the time, which according the bible can include things like murder, torture, rape, and genocide, just to name a few.
@mordinvan That's not morality, that's some sort of utilitarianism. As an atheist, I suppose you don't believe in absolutes, or intrinsic moral values.
My morality is not based on a book, it's based on principles.
And please stop quoting the Old Testement... don't you see the Bible is not a book, but a library. It is a PROGRESSIVE revelation.
If Jesus would have been sent 4000 years ago, they would have thought he was nuts (e.g. pray for your ennemies), would have killed and forgotten him.
"As an atheist, I suppose you don't believe in absolutes, or intrinsic moral values."
Then stop supposing, it makes you sound stupid.
"It is a PROGRESSIVE revelation."
Matthew 5:18 would indicate ALL of it is still applicable in a direct quote from god, and you should believe your omniscient god would know what he's talking about, shouldn't you? This also doesn't change the fact that your god found circumstances where all the above CRIMES were deemed 'moral'.
And how does the age of the crimes your god endorsed and claims credit for diminish the brutality of using a newborn like a baseball bat, and shattering its skull against the ground?
I still think Jesus is nuts. Find me a single rich christian, and they'll agree with me implicitly that he was nuts too, by the simple fact they have money, and bank accounts an investments, when Jesus said think not for tomorrow(Matthew 6:34).
Also Atheists don't have to have either of the 2 traits you ascribed to them. All an atheist must have is an absence of an affirmative belief in a god.
"Atheists are TERRIBLE philsophers. Most of them don't realize what their position implies."
Coming from someone who engages in ritual cannibalism every Sunday, while rejoicing in the spilled blood of the one person in the world they claim was an innocent.... that's not nearly as offensive as it could be.....
@mordinvan No, absence of affirmative belief in God is agnosticism. Atheist is the positive affirmative there is no God. You could say I'm an agnostic leaning far away from atheism.
Plus, I don't see how the example of the sacrifice of the Mass has anything to do with me not nothing the philosophical implication of my position...
N.B. If you think sharing the bread of Eternal Life is cannibalism, then you are seriously mistaken.
The logical implications of it is that we don't have free will in heaven OR that evil exists in heaven because we must have moral evil to have moral good.:)
@Nihm420 *SIGH*. Like I said. His defense was just to refute the logical problem of evil. Atheists who constantly quote Epicurus obviously do not keep up with what contemporary philosopher have a consensus on. That the logical problem of evil is dead.
@Nihm420 Uh, yea they do. All you have to do is look up Plantinga's free will defense on wikipedia.
Robert Adams says that "it is fair to say that Plantinga has solved this problem. That is, he has argued convincingly for the consistency of God and evil."
William L. Rowe has written "granted incompatibilism, there is a fairly compelling argument for the view that the existence of evil is logically consistent with the existence of the theistic God", referring to Plantinga's argument.
And all you need to do is read the criticism portion and below, on the same page...
"Plantinga [...] has established the possibility that God could not actualize a world containing free creatures that always do the right thing." - POOF, there goes the christian notion of heaven.:";)
@Nihm420 What about the purgatory purification and in the end, with beatific vision (God = Heaven), it becomes "impossible" to comit evil because of the absolute presence of good?
@Nihm420 Well there ought to be free will in heaven. This is why you can FREELY leave Heaven, which by definition contains no evil. I believe what leads someone to Hell is conscious rejection of God's mercy. Perseverance in error.
So of course there is free will in Heaven. You can leave or you can be thrown out (Lucifer)
i agree with you until the 3rd argument. Assuming the Bible is the Word of God for the sake of arguing (it is btw). Where in the Bible does it say that God is Omnipresent? Israel had to be faithful, Holy, and separated from the world's customs in order for God to dwell with them. Why doesn't God go where there is evil? because he hates evil and we are evil. but since He is rich in mercy and grace He has paid the punishment we deserve and put it on himself through Jesus Christ to reconcile us bak
My only complaint: Don't use the Vietnamese picure as a representation of evil. That was the completely justified execution of a mass muderer during wartime.
@babycuddle2 Didn't I do that? The "victim" was a mass murderer who killed dozens of South Vietnamese police officers. Because of the war they decided nnot to go through a formal execution.
"By building gigantic dams and storing huge quantities of water in one place, the earth goes down in that area and consequently goes up in another area, like a see-saw. The indiscriminate exploitation of natural resources by the scientists and technologists such as various types of mines for extracting minerals, mica, coal, petrol and other oils results in imbalance and pollution of the five major elements, leading to catastrophes like EARTHQUAKES etc."
"Today scientists are interested in new inventions. The advancement in science and technology has also led to imbalance in Nature. As a result, there are earthquakes and no timely rains. Science should be utilised only to the extent needed. Science has its limitations, and crossing those limits leads to danger."
I would like to hear your stance on the proposition of free will as a predicate requirement of love. Since you didn't exactly touch on that; btw I have to agree that the first couple of points are retarded and I hate when fellow Christians use them. They're bankrupt of any logic at all.
@Hornadayfan "No life can be lived out in complete defiance of Truth; one has to pay heed to truth and speak the truth to some one in order to make life worth living. Now, that moment is God's moment and at that moment when he utters the truth or loves, or serves or bends, he is a theist."
@Hornadayfan "God is not responsible for the grief and the pain that one experiences. The sins one commits are the progenitors of the grief one suffers. Joy and sorrow are the consequences of the good and the evil that one perpetrates. God is merely a witness. He does not punish, nor does He cause grief. "
@Hornadayfan "Grief or joy is the image of the activity one engages in; it is the resound, the reflection, and the reaction. One can be the witness without concerning oneself with the good and the bad of the activity. When involvement happens, good will have to be experienced when good is done, and evil will have to be experienced when evil is done. "
You claim evil exists. If evil exists there must be a moral law to distinguish good from evil. If there is a moral law there must be a moral law giver. Therefore God. Else morality must be relative,thus an illusion, thus not real. As long as you can posit that God has a morally permissible reason to allow evil, there is no contradiction in God being Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnibenevolent. You must show this is not the case, which you have not done.
My Theodicy: 1{Men are finite beings. God is an infinite being. God must therefore have knowledge of all possible finite beings. } 2{What makes you, you is every choice, every action, every circumstance in your life.} That is to say, if anything was different you would not exist as the current "you". If you were born elsewhere you would not be you but another being all together. Same with all events leading to your current self and future self.
3{Evil is therefore a necessary condition for you to exist.} An argument against evil becomes an argument against your own existence. 4{You have always existed in the mind of God, yet without form.} 5{You are accountable for being you because you could be nothing but who you are.}6{God merely gave you form} We are as a thought in the mind of God. That thought had to exist, he exercises free-will by allowing you in physical form, such that his will, will ultimately be done.
@camy011 The fact that there's morality doesn't imply that there needed to be someone who endowed you with it. What modern science, neuroscience to be precise, tells us is that our principles and values, thus morality, descend and depend on the environment in which we are set and in which we were raised. Take this example, Nazis on the 1950's would not find it evil that they were killing Jews, as it was the way it was supposed to be to them. (Cont.)
@camy011 Thus, your assumption that there needs to be a moral law giver fails objectively as if all men are created on the image of God, then all men had to possess the same moral law code, which is obviously faulty, just as Nazis had a different moral code, than somebody else who was raised on a different culture.
@IaintNoGood Fool. Bush and every other president the USA has had serve Satan. Not metaphorically speaking. They are actual satanists--this is why not bad, but horrible things keep happening (if not planned as ALL evidence suggests). God sacrificed HIS ONLY SON for YOU. Could you sacrifice your...anything??? Thought so. The Christian story and the plan of salvation are self-evident only a fool who didn't want to Love God couldn't see that.
2- No, that was the human sacrifice part of our governments satanic ritual--no act of God there (if you reply back questioning me on this without researching thats your cue to realize you actually ARE ignorant).
3- Humans are dumb. They NEVER LEARN FROM LUXARY. They only want to become gods through that.
its hard to believe anything these days... all one can do is research and then research your research because there is definetly a turd in the punch bowl somewhere....
@nathaniel2784 These retards think God is just a genie who should be able to make things just pop into existence. They don't understand there is a perfect form and structure of perfection. Making living LOVING beings requires evil. How can God Force us to Love him and still be good? God cannot create a paradox since a paradox, in it's nature is not good.
@SuperSam424 So you are admitting God creates evil. That makes him evil.
Is there evil in heaven or does only good exist there?
Who is the "retard"? You believe in an imaginary friend who lives in the sky and you talk to him. Your silly fairy tale books says God makes things pop into existence and now you have the gall to call others retards because they refer to that? You really are a douche bag!
@SuperSam424 "Your silly fairy tale books says God makes things pop into existence",
Umm, yes it does. Ever heard of "Let there be light and there was light"? Jesus making the loaves appear? Moses: the burning bush just appeared? Paul: blinding light and vision just appeared. Elijah And Elisha just appeared out of nothing on the mountain top. I could go on and on!
Holy Crap, you are stupid. Read some more of your fairy tale book before you argue for it.
@SuperSam424 You made the stupid assumption that I don't know anything about your religion. It is very clear I know more about your religion, doctrine and dogma that you do.
Evil, good, suffering, all these concepts while relative to everyone still enforce the concept of suffering in existence. Love is a human concept that stems from our survival instincts. If some supreme had wanted to be praised by every single being and rid the world of imperfection It would have made so that way, but it is in our nature not to. Way to disrespect those with opposing views by calling them retards. I understand--you are trying to prove something that cannot be proven.
@ImpaledNoob Love is no survival instinct thats just bullshit. 2nd off " If some supreme had wanted to be praised by every single being and rid the world of imperfection It would have made so that way". NO--God is not a genie. THERE IS STRUCTURE TO PERFECTION. Nothing just pops into existence--plus thats a paradox to create beings that love you. He wouldn't be ALL LOVING if he did that. If I called anyone retarded I meant it as fact, not insult. I don't insult. Some people just say retard things
You are fare too gone dude, I am no longer wasting my time with you. You preach to people to open their minds and yet you have chosen to stick with an unfounded belief that can only be supported by making more stuff up. I'd rather burn in Hell like the millions of people before me who chose to be free (I am not even socially deviant), at least this way I'll know there's an asshole that implemented a scheme that dictates unconditional praise toward Itself. Good night :)
@ImpaledNoob "by making more stuff up". <-----Thats simply how you interpret hearing unbelieveable things.
The plan for our salvation does not does not dictate love, it only gives you the opportunity for an eternity of it at its full glory and structure. No human being in his right mind would ACTUALLY choose evil. Come on, you know that. How would you not see that choosing the alternative (evil) is the wrong choice? Please don't tell me this is what atheists are blind to. Irony in words
I wouldn't mind going to a fiery place for all eternity because I'd rather do that than submit to a life of control just to prove that the creator leans toward favoritism of those who follow Its commands despite being able to create beings that cannot sin. I would like to be made a reminder of, that God is an asshole, for those like me and those who lived in fear. I am not going to play the Christian God's game, if God wants me in Hell, I shall go there. Suffering is subjective.
Hey dude, I've had enough of talking about the issue. I came here to check out opposing views that ultimately reinforced my own views. I am angry and disappointed at the possibility that an all supreme being could exist. I could surely go to Church every day and brainwash myself into thinking that God is love and all that stuff but my reality dictates otherwise. See you!
@ImpaledNoob 1- He DID create beings that can't sin. They were ignorant--untill satan stepped in to destroy Gods creation. There are probably ALWAYS rebellious beings in a mass creation. Stop talking like God is responsible for the evil--he knows whatever we humans go through on earth is worth heaven. HE came down as a man and was belittled in every way possible by our "innocent" race then CRUCIFIED and this mad did nothing BUT Love. You won't be a reminder--you'll actually be forgotton.
@SuperSam424 "FACT- SHROUD OF TURIN."...ha! ha ha ha!!! Good one!
The Shroud of Turin has been proven time and again to be 14th century forgery.
Yes, there were many gullible Christians back then too. The difference is today's Christians should know better....but sadly no. Dark Ages mentality persists.
You still make me laugh.
"What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!" Pope Leo X.
@ninjamojo711 YOU WOULD use the already disproven, minute deatail of this mark of God. You would hype up the false carbon dating on it. HAVE YOU SEEN THE SHOWS ON THIS? THEY'RE STILL DISCOVERING MORE THINGS ABOUT IT. For example whatever hit that shroud to create that image DID NOT USE OUR LAWS OF PHYSICS. What about that!? But no you ignore the facinating and unbelievable parts because you would rather REALLY (not as a cool little atheist thing to say) just go to hell then open your eyes.
@SuperSam424 Hilarious!! Independent and separate tests have all shown time and again that the Shroud of Turin is a 14th century fake, fraud and forgery!!
But Christians can't accept that so they go on searching for some way to discredit the science so their delusions will fit their doctrine. (just like creationist science that searches for aspects to fit doctrine but ignore everything else).
Very dishonest and deceitful!
You forgot to mention all the failed prophecies of the bible.
@ninjamojo711 Have you only read one fraudulent source? You seem to be stuck on one liars interpretation. 2nd off all that about "find things to fit" yada yada yada simply just isn't true. Don't you think real Christians would look for real evidence (aka the prophecies). And what failed prophecies? The ones atheists just deny due to some BS they make us? If anyone is trying to create a different picture it's atheists and satanists. There are lies all over this world and you are simply believing.
@SuperSam424 you asked" Don't you think real Christians would look for real evidence?"
No, I don't! It's an observable fact that Christians only look for so called evidence that fits their agenda and doctrine and ignore glaring and undeniable evidence that is contrary to their belief system.
Could you just for one second open up your mind enough to consider your sources may be fraudulent?
@ninjamojo711 Hypocrite. You see--YOU JUST ASSUME. It's people like you that make up the dumb part of the world. AS IF atheists are better. It's an observable fact that atheists only look for so called evidence that fits their agenda and doctrine and ignore glaring and undeniable evidence that is contrary to their belief system.
Could you just for one second open up your mind enough to consider your sources may be fraudulent?
@SuperSam424 Wow, you are brilliant. Take my words and argument and change it to reflect your bias and use it as a rebuttal against me. God must be so proud of you!
Are you capable of generating an original thought in your mind. Oh, I forgot, you aren't free to do that, you are chained to a mind controlling death cult. You are a slave. You have no freedom.
@SuperSam424 Who is assuming here? BTW, your use of ALL CAPS makes your argument so much more compelling.
You are assuming the tales of the bible are true. You are assuming that a person 2000 years ago defied the laws of nature, rose from the grave like zombie and flew up into heaven. You assume he was born of a virgin impregnated by a god you assume exists in the sky somewhere. You assume you know what the word atheist means. You also assume I am an atheist.
@ninjamojo711 YES IT DOES. You assume everything I assume. Let's not be hypocrites. uh--yeah, the incarnate of God CAN defy nature, hense, SUPERnatural. Adam and Eve could fly. But that went away after they fell. God "lives in the sky"? Yeah okay lets just dumb down the concept of God THEN we can win the arguemnt! Uh--you don't believe in the "man in the sky" and you probably relate him to santa and the "flying spegetti monster". You are an atheist.
@SuperSam424 I am so sorry for debating you and provoking you. I didn't realize you were mentally disabled. I shouldn't be messing with the minds of the deranged. Again, sorry. I didn't know.
I will move my discussion to the somewhat intellectual or at least those who can at least rationalize to a degree and have a basic concept of reality.
Go back to Elmo and Barney. I'm sorry I disturbed your temporary break from the straight-jacket.
@ninjamojo711 There is no debate. You simply resory to calling me deranged and mentally disabled and blah blah blah because you have nothing TRUE to say. You're probably filled with a bunch of half-truths and assumptions about Christians and the existence of the supernatural. You probably think Religious = stupid and atheists = intellectuals. You're falling into the newage deception like a whore in a LA bar. Please--read a book. Ants like you can't provoke me...let alone any REAL Christians.
@ninjamojo71 Right. Because this "supposed" magic book I read is the "supposed" word of God and everything is "supposedly" actually coming true? Right. This is no "book". And They actually have many books in mental institutes. It's a common misconception they don't.
I am interested if you could give me the proof against the reality of freewill, though, I do hope you are not referring to the experiments performed on the partial lobe that illicited involuntary responses. All this shows is that that our body is manipulated by the brain and is a tool for its control. I hope you further contemplate the implications of your view as determinism also implies that you cannot trust the truth statements of your own mind.
If determinism is true, then theist cannot be blamed for your perceived flaw in reasoning because they have no choice otherwise. If our decisions are merely the result of neurons firing, then moral statements like should, ought, and chose break down, losing all meaning. You say that freewill would escape the causal reality of the physical universe, but you do not address the recent advances in quantum theory and how that may challenge our current perception of causality.
If God is omniscient therefore It knows the future of all of its creations, therefore freewill is non-applicable. If God knows the future, therefore, by Christian standards, It knows who will end up in Hell and as a conclusion he is malevolent since It already knows who's going to end up in there. If I was a creator, would I give my creation the ability to comprehend every single idea and concept? If I didn't then I would be selfish, therefore egocentric, and by logic, imperfect.
@ImpaledNoob You don't understand. God gives everyone equal opportunity. Just because He knows what YOU ARE GOING TO CHOOSE--it does not mean he is malevolent. If God does exist (and odds are he does), He MUST know, correct? If he did not, he would not be GOD. GOD = YOUR FOUNDATION. He is not equal to you so stop questioning metaphysical realities our minds can barley grasp due to our restriction being to only 3 out of the 11 dimensions. That is all.
An all supreme being wouldn't have the need to create the universe for It's own benefit, in fact, a supreme being wouldn't have any needs at all considering that It is omniscient. It's amusing that you assume that God is a person, a man, you pulled your beliefs right out of a book and now claim them to be true. I on the other hand have nothing to prove for there's nothing to prove :D A perfect God shouldn't have to judge their creations, why pay for Its own mistakes? Plain silly.
you do realize it rarely says God is all good... It says God is all LOVING... did your parents punish you when you were growing up to teach you a lesson and learn from it? people with these videos crack me up, must suck not to have a purpose in life....
@gtpsleeper Since bad behavior is determined by the physical structure of the brain and a creator god would be responsible for this physical structure, the creator god would be responsible for your bad behavior and it would therefore be morally reprehensible that he would hold you accountable for it rather than holding himself accountable. Furthermore, you imply that evil is a punishment, meaning that bad things happen to someone because they were bad. Why would a god severely punish babies?
@GlobalHuntMan Bad behavior is determined by MUCH more then the physical structure of the brain. The fallen angels of the Bible are everywhere; causing havok and influencing humans ever so subtly. We exist in the bass vibrational field. The lowest kind. We only experience 3 out of 11 dimensions. There is MUCH more to this world then structural physicalities of our bodies. You dare hold God accountable for evil in this world? We are fallen from HIS glory. In science terms that means WE AGE.
@SuperSam424 The brain is a physical object, and as such, it is subject to the laws of physics. Our behavior is thus determined by the laws of physics. There is no evidence to suggest the laws of physics in the brain are violated by the interventions of "fallen angels," nor is there any evidence suggesting these "fallen angels" exist in the first place. I don't hold God accountable for evil because I would first have to have reason to believe he exists in order to impugn his intentions.
@GlobalHuntMan its because god gave us free will... to choose whether or not to do evil... because if you have no concept of evil then you cannot have a concept of good. God doesn use evil against individuals but evil in itself as a concept. whether or not you think god is ALL good and ALL powerful makes no difference in the logic of believing in God anyway so why does it really matter?
@gtpsleeper If there was no pain, suffering, and hatred and only love and happiness, I don't see how love and happiness would cease to exist. You are stating a claim without any kind of justification. Even if you did need the concept of evil for the concept of good to have meaning, an omnipotent god could give us an instinctual understanding of what evil is without us ever actually having to experience it or do it just as the brain has a certain instinctual understanding of other things.
@gtpsleeper In fact, this instinct which allows to differentiate between good and evil things presumably already exists in us as one doesn't have to experience or commit genocide to understand why it is a heinous crime. It is very much an instinct that genocide or any other kind of murder is bad. We don't generally "learn" what is good and bad; we, at those most fundamental level of moral decision making, simply know what is good and bad.
@gtpsleeper You keep invoking the concept of free will without any kind of explanation as to how human decision making can be independent of a god when it appears everything we do is simply the brain carrying out computations in accordance with its structural properties, structural properties for which an omnipotent god would have to be deemed responsible. A person does not "choose" the structure of their brain.
@gtpsleeper It is important to consider if a god can indeed be omnipotent and completely benevolent because many of the major world religions require that a god possess these characteristics, so the logical coherence of such a god would reflect on the logical coherence of these religions.
Then those sims died for a reason...hopefully not the same reason I would take there fridge away, pure entertainment.
Kathryn50320 3 weeks ago
God is not all good, but i believe all powerfull. i dont even understand the things he does but i do believe its all for a reason
Kathryn50320 1 month ago
@Kathryn50320 Keep in mind... if he is not all good but all powerful... just because he does stuff for a reason doesnt make it better then it happening randomly. It's like making a Sims family and taking away their fridge so they all starve and die. Yes, you have the power. No, it isn't good. Yes, there is a reason. But it's hardly a comfort.
cavemantiger 3 weeks ago
If there is a God as described as in the bible then God is evil, I said so since I was 7.
MrSuperZangief 2 months ago in playlist Fler videoklipp från cdk007
God is love.Love needs to be shared freely not compulsorily. God creates beings who can share His love if they wish or not share it if they wish.
Some of them choose not to. They devoid themselves from His image and do what is opposite to Him - evil.
He can stop them right away but he gives them time to repent.
If they do not repent they are isolated in a dark (figuratively) place.
Nobody can get there but God.
They know that is their choice, they are not happy with it but they yet do not repent
AChristianapologist 2 months ago in playlist More videos from cdk007
@AChristianapologist But if God is all knowing why did he create you, then placed you here, if he already knew what the outcome would be? I am an ex-Christian. Why am I here if he knew I would cease to worship him, thus requiring an eternity of suffering? And isn't it odd that you could live a life of pure evil and still make it to heaven on your death bed, but someone who lived a a perfectly life goes to hell because they weren't a christian?
thybigballs 2 months ago
Don't worry, I downloaded this video. The second it get's deleted... it's going RIGHT back up :D
Mrgruntastic 3 months ago
what and ass
beniayah 3 months ago
It's funny how most theist like to say that atheists BELIEVE god doesn't exists. Do you believe zeus doesn't exist? or fairies or other myths?. The conclusion that something doesn't exist isn't based on faith, but on the lack of evidence supporting its existence. They just want to make us feel like not believing in god somehow requires faith.
ipilincoln1515 3 months ago
Simple problem with the 'Free Will' argument.
1. Beings with free will cannot have perfect morals
2. God has perfect morals
3. Therefore God has no free will
4. You are effectively praising a robot
BinaryPill 3 months ago
@BinaryPill wOw.......nice reasoning .. can i copy it ?
IvanderHaisley 3 months ago
@IvanderHaisley Suppose so
BinaryPill 3 months ago
Well summed up. Good vid.
BinaryPill 3 months ago
the triple o god surely cannot exist without obvious contradiction. great video! I hope people arguing about this subject can become open to the fact that what we believe COULD be wrong!
seanoyler 4 months ago
Stop talking about "God", something which you believe doesn't even exist, it is even more foolish to argue about something which you don't believe even exists, can you waste anymore of your time on something which you believe doesn't even exist. Can you be so caught up by a fool? That makes you equally if not more foolish.
SuperSikNasty 4 months ago
@SuperSikNasty How is disproving a harmful delusion held by many people foolish? Oh, wait, you're a theist, I can tell by your copy and paste argument.
N33DL3R 4 months ago
@N33DL3R Dude what do I care whether god exists or not! Wasting your time on that, trying to prove or disprove is completely foolish because it's impossible. Whether god exists or not is not my problem, that doesn't change anything in anyone's life except if you are foolish enough to care and spend your TIME on it. I care more about my TIME not what other people care or believe or think.
SuperSikNasty 4 months ago
Is it really your opinion that evil is a problem for god? Is that 'Your' personal opinion or someone else's? In my opinion, evil exists only in the realm of human beings.
SuperSikNasty 4 months ago
And just because I am SUCH a sweetie...
"I wonder on what basis YOU can call something "moral". What if the person next to you opposes your view? How do you decide what is moral? And most importantly: HOW?"
/watch?v=T7xt5LtgsxQ&feature=relmfu
Nihm420 7 months ago
Graham Oppy offers a dissent, acknowledging that "[m]any philosophers seem to suppose that [Plantinga's free will defense] utterly demolishes the kinds of 'logical' arguments from evil developed by Mackie" but continuing "I am not sure this is a correct assessment of the current state of play"
Nihm420 7 months ago
"We should ALL agree that evil exists"????
Actually, most of my atheist friends don't believe evil or good actually exists, since there there is no absolute morality.
If EVERYTHING is just matter and energy, and subject to evolution by chance and necessity, then there is NO MORALITY... Nothing really matters. Like Dawkins rightfully pointed out: it's only DNA, and we dance to it's music.
Dostoievsky was right when he said "if God doesn't exist, everything is permitted".
Gazdo01 7 months ago
@Gazdo01
errrrr...
"Actually, most of my atheist friends don't believe evil or good actually exists, since there there is no absolute morality."
Um, I'm an atheist and I think good and evil ACTIONS exist - but I don't believe in an "absolute" morality - and I am pretty sure your atheist friends would agree with me.
I think you misunderstood them because you have a particular belief system that you are trying to pigeonhole them into...
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 Sorry to say, but your position is illogical. There can be no real "morality" if you're an atheist. Theses actions may SEEM LIKE, or LOOK moral, but that's not real morality.
If you're an atheist, you must then be
1. Reductionist
2. Determinist
There is absolutely no place for real morality in this context.
I'm not the one who misunderstands. Atheists are TERRIBLE philsophers. Most of them don't realize what their position implies.
Gazdo01 7 months ago
@Gazdo01
That is bullshit...
If what you are saying is that you can't be moral unless you believe is a invisible sky-daddy then you are more than illogical - you are silly.
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 That's an argument Hitchens likes to use a lot i.e. when he challenges people to find a moral action a beliver can do an atheist can't. But that has NOTHING to do with anything. Nobody ever said you can't be moral with you don't believe in God. What we say is that you need God to call anything "moral" in the first place. You might reject God, but it doesn't prevent you from living according to His moral laws.
Just as you might reject gravitational law, but will fall off the building...
Gazdo01 7 months ago
@Gazdo01
"What we say is that you need God to call anything "moral" in the first place."
Never go full-retard.
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 How old are you?? 14???
Gazdo01 7 months ago
@Gazdo01
In case you need a translation... if you think you need a invisible-sky-daddy to be able to call things "moral"... then you have gone full-retard.
Literally.... that is absolutely moronic.
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 Really... who old are you? You have such a puerile view on the subject, one can't help but wonder...
I wonder on what basis YOU can call something "moral". What if the person next to you opposes your view? How do you decide what is moral? And most importantly: HOW
Why should anything be moral at all, if, like the atheists say, we're only MATTER organised by the evolutionary process guided ONLY BY chance and necessity
Gazdo01 7 months ago
@Gazdo01
Pfffft.... a "puerile view"...?
My VIEW as far as i have described it to YOU is that I think YOUR view is retarded.
Because, if you need the words of a dusty old book, written by ignorant men in some backwater berg in ancient Palestine that claims to be the opinions of what some sky-god thinks are right and wrong to be able to tell that in war for instance, it is unjust to kill innocent women and children, or that slavery is wrong, then you are incapable of thinking for yourself.
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 Really, who old are you??
"I think YOUR view is retarded" That's doesn't solve any problem.
" if you need the words of a dusty old book, [...] then you are incapable of thinking for yourself." I challenge you to find me where I say explicitally "I need the Bible to think for myself". You're putting word in my mouth, and in the mouths of theists.
Really, who old are you? Your view is indeed very puerile. You can't see pass your own little point of view.
Gazdo01 7 months ago
@Gazdo01
Because the irony is...
Killing innocent women and children AND slavery is just fine with the old testament god,
So for instance, since the bible doesn't contain ONE FUCKING line that prohibits slavery, but MANY verses PROSCRIBING slavery... what is YOUR basis for saying slavery is wrong, since it it A'ok with the God of the Bible...?
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 It's not because it's "in the Old Testement" that it's "fine". The theists don't say we NEED some sort of authority in the Scirptures to tell us what is right or wrong.
I believe we are created in the image of God, i.e. we have an inner moral sense. To answer the question very simply, my basis is myself.
BUT, that being said, I'll ask you this: where does my INNER MORALITY come from? To save you some time, I'll say that "evolution based morality" is not suffisent
Gazdo01 7 months ago
@Gazdo01
Oh... and I could be 5... or 85... I could tell you my age and you would STILL never know.
But I can think for myself, and I don't need the words of a fairy tale book, nor the promise of heaven or the fear of hell to recognize the wisdom and value of goodness and good deeds.
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 Well that's good that you can think for yourself. I too can do that. But do recognize that "promise of heaven" or "fear of Hell" was maybe necessary in a primitive society.
If you were born 5000 years ago, and I said to you "do good unto others, even the ones you now consider your ennemies", you'd probably thought I was a mad man.
All I'm saying is, if you want to be fair with Christians: stop quoting the Old Testament, and start quoting the New Testament, where all is fullfilled.
Gazdo01 7 months ago
@Gazdo01
"... Where all is fullfilled."
Define "all" please...
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Gazdo01 said:
"All I'm saying is, if you want to be fair with Christians: stop quoting the Old Testament, and start quoting the New Testament, where all is fulfilled."
Ok Matthew 5:17.
Ever wonder why the Bible still HAS the Old Testament, when you think it is supposed to be ignored...?
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 - i'm looking forward to seeing your explanation of why it still has the OT, given you are such an enthusiast to preserve your jewbag conspiracy, so you can go around posting lies about how reality works.
=~~~what definition of reality is your sick mind using as a startoff point that excludes 'the paranormal' entirely?~~~=
kill yourself.
MannySteinerBIeeky 7 months ago
@MannySteinerBIeeky
Oh boy... here comes crazy.
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 - you were here before i got here, and your comments prove you crazy - a line-tower of ideas your evil mind seems to download from - your satanic masters you channel your thoughts from,
or you'd be able to answer this,
=~~~what definition of reality is your sick mind using as a startoff point that excludes 'the paranormal' entirely?~~~=
kill yourself.
MannySteinerBIeeky 7 months ago
@MannySteinerBIeeky asked:
"what definition of reality is your sick mind using as a startoff point that excludes 'the paranormal' entirely?"
the definition of reality that is based in reason and evidence.
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 - but how do you go about defending the way you define what reason and evidence is?
yes we know - because of indoctrination of your ideas - that you consider evidence as provable within various set parameters, but that is no different to the religions you are against.
eg you claim channeling isn't true - based on what? based on your choosing to define reality according to presuppositons, rather than being open to truth and going from there.
kill yourself.
MannySteinerBIeeky 7 months ago
@MannySteinerBIeeky
Name ONE study done by scientists that determined that sombody channeled a spirit - there is none.
Get help man... you've got problems.
Nihm420 6 months ago
@Nihm420 - you have no studies disproving it, is the real point.
so why do you choose to disbelieve things - when they are not disproven?
where is this manifesto your kind run to? can normal people like me have a looky at it? or do i need to learn satanic-speak and get a brain implant to stop me thinking first?
kill yourself moron.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBIeeky
Damn you are stupid.
If the few tests that WERE conducted showed it all to be a scam, that DISproves it! So if somebody out there IS really channeling "spirits", then they need to step up and prove it.
Besides, stating that you believe in something BECAUSE it hasn't been disproven yet is a truly asinine reason to think something is true.
Nihm420 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Nihm420 - you're evil and stupid, you're the Protocols of the Elders of Zions wet dream, how they wish all humans could become subhuman scum like you and them so their takeover of reality would be complete.
Kill yourself subhuman scum.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
@Nihm420 Mt 5.17 refers specifically to the 10 Commandments. The whole Thora is not considered to be a perfect expression of God's Law. As for the prophets, he doesn't abolish, because he is of course the one they were talking about.
I'm not saying the OT should be ignored. But not all of it should be applied textually. Even the modern Jews don't stone people to death anymore... lol
Gazdo01 6 months ago
@Gazdo01
Oh... and here is a little something for you...
/watch?v=hSS-88ShJfo&feature=feedlik
...consider it a little nail for your retarded coffin.
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 That's what I meant with "puerile" view. You can't see past these trivialities... You're not a very good philosophers... But that's understandable if you're 14 years old...
One easy question... a part from some quotations (taken out of context) in some YT videos, have you ever read the WHOLE BIBLE?
Gazdo01 7 months ago
@Gazdo01
Yep, I've read the whole thing.
it's a truly boring read... when it's not being ridiculous and abhorrent.
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Gazdo01 the only way YOU see past them is by pretending that they do not exist - hardly a convincing argument.
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Gazdo01
Here is a question for you then...
6,000,000 children die every year from starvation.
That's roughly 16,438 children per day.
Why does god allow it? He could stop it with a snap of his fingers, why doesn't he?
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 Good question.
1. If there is no God, then this is not outragious. But then, why do you take it as an example? Clearly, you have some "higher moral stand" on the question, and God's hypothetic existence tortures you because of him taking no action. Why don't adress the question of trees being cut down, or millions of pigs being slaughtered each year? Why give any human life any more significance than that of any other living creature? I argue that, just there, is a sign of God.
Gazdo01 6 months ago
@Nihm420
2. What is it exactly you would like God to do about the problem? What kind of miracle are we talking about? Ask yourself if, after that, life would still make sense?
I don't know if you believe life has a meaning... but certainly if God instantaneously saved 6000000 children from starvation, then you'd be asking for way more than that... The next logical step would be to stop ALL SUFFERING in the world. But surely without suffering, like has no meaning.
Think about it.
Gazdo01 6 months ago
@Gazdo01
Ahhhhh so there IS free will in heaven...
So that means GOD CAN create a world free of evil without violating free will...
Welcome back to the original Problem of Evil.:)
Nihm420 6 months ago
@Nihm420 Well no, because creating a world free of evil WITH free will would imply casting out of "the world" those who commit evil. But then that's just called Heaven.
Like I said, in Heaven, as soon as you commit evil, then you're not part of Heaven anymore, by definition. By doing evil, you REJECT the state of grace. So of course there is "free will", and so are consequences. There can be no evil in Heaven, but that's not because there is no free will, that's because you cask yourself out.
Gazdo01 6 months ago
@Gazdo01 - the problem with the idea that you cast yourself out in choosing to violate anothers free-will is that - it doesn't seem to be the case why everyone is here, in this world full of evil that they have little control over in terms of how the various dysfunctions affect their life.
eg - if i am here for casting myself out, why don't i know what i did then? and how come there isn't even a way to find that out? surely you'd know if it worked the way you're saying it does.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
@Gazdo01
Well what are you arguing now? You said that Alvin Plantiga's Free Will defense laid the matter to rest... Plantinga's argument is that even though God is omnipotent, it is possible that it was not in his power to create a world containing moral good but no moral evil - if you say there is free will in heaven then you are rejecting Plantiga's Free Will defense... there was no need to have this world in the first place if he could just have us all live in heaven with rules.:)
Nihm420 6 months ago
@Nihm420 1. I never invoked Plantiga, I just got in the course of an already going discussion
2. If you sin, then by definition you're not in Heaven. Heaven is being in the presence of the beatific vision. You're seeing "Heaven" as this material world, in which free will allows you to produce evil. That's not the case.
In the end, your argument is: if God is really omnipotent, then He could have made made a world where evil actions are the ultimate good. To me, that's just non-sense.
Gazdo01 6 months ago
@Gazdo01
To your 1 - ahh i see.
To your 2 - That's not my argument at all.... what you are saying is silly. In fact now that I see that that is what you think, I wonder If you even understand The Problem of Evil...
Nihm420 6 months ago
@Gazdo01 Will you have free will in heaven?
thybigballs 2 months ago
@thybigballs I'm not a theologian, and if the pope's POV goes against mine, then stick with the pope. But I'd say that what you call "heaven" is not a "place" different from anywhere else. Being in "heaven" means you're in the presence of God, i.e. the BEATIFIC VISION. Being out of Heaven is a free choice that one makes by freely rejecting God, who is the Truth, the Life, the Way, etc... Yes in Heaven we have free will... But as soon as one would use it to sin, he would be casted away.
Gazdo01 2 months ago
@Nihm420 - 'So that means GOD CAN create a world free of evil without violating free will...'
yes that'd be easy, all you do is prevent individuals free-wills from interfereing with other individuals free-wills. so someone in 'heaven' has free-will, meaning they can make of their reality whatever they want to & are effectively self-sufficient - and no-one else could make a free-will choice to change or disrupt that, so everyone is protected automatically.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
@Gazdo01 If humans are meant to suffer then how do we explain Adam and Eves situation before they ate the apple in the garden of Eden?
thybigballs 2 months ago
@thybigballs When did I say humans are "meant" to suffer? I think I was trying to attempt an explanation as of why suffering exists, and how life would be absurd with no suffering at all.
But then again, it is the greatest problem. One can only begin to comprehend by looking at Jesus' own suffering on the cross.
I think I know where you're going with that question... Perhaps I can ask you whether or not Adam and Eve were "fully" human before being aware of the existence of good and evil?
Gazdo01 2 months ago
@Gazdo01 Well...? Are you going to answer?
6,000,000 children die every year from starvation.
That's roughly 16,438 children per day.
Why does god allow it? He could stop it with a snap of his fingers, why doesn't he?
Nihm420 6 months ago
@Gazdo01
"There can be no real "morality" if you're an atheist."
Yes, actually, there can be. One need simply define what they want as the result, and morality can be determined from that. No theist can have morality though, as their morality is whatever god said was good at the time, which according the bible can include things like murder, torture, rape, and genocide, just to name a few.
mordinvan 5 months ago
@mordinvan That's not morality, that's some sort of utilitarianism. As an atheist, I suppose you don't believe in absolutes, or intrinsic moral values.
My morality is not based on a book, it's based on principles.
And please stop quoting the Old Testement... don't you see the Bible is not a book, but a library. It is a PROGRESSIVE revelation.
If Jesus would have been sent 4000 years ago, they would have thought he was nuts (e.g. pray for your ennemies), would have killed and forgotten him.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
@Gazdo01
"As an atheist, I suppose you don't believe in absolutes, or intrinsic moral values."
Then stop supposing, it makes you sound stupid.
"It is a PROGRESSIVE revelation."
Matthew 5:18 would indicate ALL of it is still applicable in a direct quote from god, and you should believe your omniscient god would know what he's talking about, shouldn't you? This also doesn't change the fact that your god found circumstances where all the above CRIMES were deemed 'moral'.
mordinvan 5 months ago
@Gazdo01
And how does the age of the crimes your god endorsed and claims credit for diminish the brutality of using a newborn like a baseball bat, and shattering its skull against the ground?
I still think Jesus is nuts. Find me a single rich christian, and they'll agree with me implicitly that he was nuts too, by the simple fact they have money, and bank accounts an investments, when Jesus said think not for tomorrow(Matthew 6:34).
And why do I know your bible better then you?
mordinvan 5 months ago
@Gazdo01
Also Atheists don't have to have either of the 2 traits you ascribed to them. All an atheist must have is an absence of an affirmative belief in a god.
"Atheists are TERRIBLE philsophers. Most of them don't realize what their position implies."
Coming from someone who engages in ritual cannibalism every Sunday, while rejoicing in the spilled blood of the one person in the world they claim was an innocent.... that's not nearly as offensive as it could be.....
mordinvan 5 months ago
@mordinvan No, absence of affirmative belief in God is agnosticism. Atheist is the positive affirmative there is no God. You could say I'm an agnostic leaning far away from atheism.
Plus, I don't see how the example of the sacrifice of the Mass has anything to do with me not nothing the philosophical implication of my position...
N.B. If you think sharing the bread of Eternal Life is cannibalism, then you are seriously mistaken.
Gazdo01 5 months ago
The person who made this video has obviously never heard of Alvin Plantinga's free will defense.
Drgamedood 7 months ago
@Drgamedood
heh... it's not much of a defense really.
The logical implications of it is that we don't have free will in heaven OR that evil exists in heaven because we must have moral evil to have moral good.:)
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 Plantinga's goal was only to show that God and Evil can logically co-exist. Not to give God's actual reasons for permitting evil.
Drgamedood 7 months ago
@Drgamedood
So then... logically, you can have evil in heaven:)
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 *SIGH*. Like I said. His defense was just to refute the logical problem of evil. Atheists who constantly quote Epicurus obviously do not keep up with what contemporary philosopher have a consensus on. That the logical problem of evil is dead.
Drgamedood 7 months ago
@Drgamedood
LoL, no they don't say that the logical problem of evil is dead!:)
Especially since you can argue it's opposite - ever hear of "The Problem of Good"...?
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 Uh, yea they do. All you have to do is look up Plantinga's free will defense on wikipedia.
Robert Adams says that "it is fair to say that Plantinga has solved this problem. That is, he has argued convincingly for the consistency of God and evil."
William L. Rowe has written "granted incompatibilism, there is a fairly compelling argument for the view that the existence of evil is logically consistent with the existence of the theistic God", referring to Plantinga's argument.
Drgamedood 7 months ago
@Drgamedood
And all you need to do is read the criticism portion and below, on the same page...
"Plantinga [...] has established the possibility that God could not actualize a world containing free creatures that always do the right thing." - POOF, there goes the christian notion of heaven.:";)
and there is more...:)
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Drgamedood
OR... we are without free-will in heaven:)
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 What about the purgatory purification and in the end, with beatific vision (God = Heaven), it becomes "impossible" to comit evil because of the absolute presence of good?
Gazdo01 7 months ago
@Gazdo01
The God CAN have a world where there can be no evil, thus rendering Alvin Plantinga's free will defense as silly.
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 No, because God is not of this world. It's either you have free-will or be in the beatific presence of God.
Gazdo01 7 months ago
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@Gazdo01
Soooooo no free will in heaven then...?:)
Nihm420 7 months ago
@Nihm420 Well there ought to be free will in heaven. This is why you can FREELY leave Heaven, which by definition contains no evil. I believe what leads someone to Hell is conscious rejection of God's mercy. Perseverance in error.
So of course there is free will in Heaven. You can leave or you can be thrown out (Lucifer)
Gazdo01 6 months ago
Lol by that thinking gods made all this shit, ad so he is as evil as he is good and real as he is fake, image as much a
NakedPunky 8 months ago
i agree with you until the 3rd argument. Assuming the Bible is the Word of God for the sake of arguing (it is btw). Where in the Bible does it say that God is Omnipresent? Israel had to be faithful, Holy, and separated from the world's customs in order for God to dwell with them. Why doesn't God go where there is evil? because he hates evil and we are evil. but since He is rich in mercy and grace He has paid the punishment we deserve and put it on himself through Jesus Christ to reconcile us bak
dline97 8 months ago
BLA BLA BLA - IM RIGHT YOUR NOT !
FullyRetractable 8 months ago
omg i didn't no gus from RT was a philosopher
obitotobi111 9 months ago
My only complaint: Don't use the Vietnamese picure as a representation of evil. That was the completely justified execution of a mass muderer during wartime.
every116 10 months ago
@every116
Completely justified? Explain.
babycuddle2 10 months ago
@babycuddle2 Didn't I do that? The "victim" was a mass murderer who killed dozens of South Vietnamese police officers. Because of the war they decided nnot to go through a formal execution.
every116 10 months ago
@every116
Ah, I misread, never mind me
babycuddle2 10 months ago
@every116 Perhaps the mass murderer was the evil, think about it.
Gtonicity 9 months ago
@Gtonicity That's a very good point. Hadn't thought of it that way.
every116 9 months ago
EARTHQUAKES
"By building gigantic dams and storing huge quantities of water in one place, the earth goes down in that area and consequently goes up in another area, like a see-saw. The indiscriminate exploitation of natural resources by the scientists and technologists such as various types of mines for extracting minerals, mica, coal, petrol and other oils results in imbalance and pollution of the five major elements, leading to catastrophes like EARTHQUAKES etc."
- Sathya Sai Baba
4bbc 10 months ago
"Today scientists are interested in new inventions. The advancement in science and technology has also led to imbalance in Nature. As a result, there are earthquakes and no timely rains. Science should be utilised only to the extent needed. Science has its limitations, and crossing those limits leads to danger."
- Sathya Sai Baba ( 21 Feb 2001 )
4bbc 10 months ago
I would like to hear your stance on the proposition of free will as a predicate requirement of love. Since you didn't exactly touch on that; btw I have to agree that the first couple of points are retarded and I hate when fellow Christians use them. They're bankrupt of any logic at all.
JackMelentolos 10 months ago
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@DupersFucker When you have full faith, God will surely help you.
4bbc 11 months ago
This video is so much win!
reuben 11 months ago
When quoting Epicurus, lets give him credit, Qriginal thoughts can be just as compelling.
Cougar139tweak 11 months ago
Theism is those who are are afraid if death and nonexistence. Sissies...
Hornadayfan 11 months ago
@Hornadayfan "No life can be lived out in complete defiance of Truth; one has to pay heed to truth and speak the truth to some one in order to make life worth living. Now, that moment is God's moment and at that moment when he utters the truth or loves, or serves or bends, he is a theist."
- Sathya Sai Baba
4bbc 11 months ago
@Hornadayfan "God is not responsible for the grief and the pain that one experiences. The sins one commits are the progenitors of the grief one suffers. Joy and sorrow are the consequences of the good and the evil that one perpetrates. God is merely a witness. He does not punish, nor does He cause grief. "
- Sathya Sai Baba
4bbc 11 months ago
@4bbc Too bad that goes against the word of god, the bible.
wtfzwrong 9 months ago
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@Hornadayfan "Grief or joy is the image of the activity one engages in; it is the resound, the reflection, and the reaction. One can be the witness without concerning oneself with the good and the bad of the activity. When involvement happens, good will have to be experienced when good is done, and evil will have to be experienced when evil is done. "
- Sathya Sai Baba
4bbc 11 months ago
You claim evil exists. If evil exists there must be a moral law to distinguish good from evil. If there is a moral law there must be a moral law giver. Therefore God. Else morality must be relative,thus an illusion, thus not real. As long as you can posit that God has a morally permissible reason to allow evil, there is no contradiction in God being Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnibenevolent. You must show this is not the case, which you have not done.
camy011 11 months ago
My Theodicy: 1{Men are finite beings. God is an infinite being. God must therefore have knowledge of all possible finite beings. } 2{What makes you, you is every choice, every action, every circumstance in your life.} That is to say, if anything was different you would not exist as the current "you". If you were born elsewhere you would not be you but another being all together. Same with all events leading to your current self and future self.
camy011 11 months ago
3{Evil is therefore a necessary condition for you to exist.} An argument against evil becomes an argument against your own existence. 4{You have always existed in the mind of God, yet without form.} 5{You are accountable for being you because you could be nothing but who you are.}6{God merely gave you form} We are as a thought in the mind of God. That thought had to exist, he exercises free-will by allowing you in physical form, such that his will, will ultimately be done.
camy011 11 months ago
@camy011 yes there is a "moral law giver", it is called humankind. WE assign moral values to actions.
mjhq75 11 months ago
@camy011 The fact that there's morality doesn't imply that there needed to be someone who endowed you with it. What modern science, neuroscience to be precise, tells us is that our principles and values, thus morality, descend and depend on the environment in which we are set and in which we were raised. Take this example, Nazis on the 1950's would not find it evil that they were killing Jews, as it was the way it was supposed to be to them. (Cont.)
wtfzwrong 9 months ago
@wtfzwrong so was that evil?
dline97 8 months ago
@camy011 Thus, your assumption that there needs to be a moral law giver fails objectively as if all men are created on the image of God, then all men had to possess the same moral law code, which is obviously faulty, just as Nazis had a different moral code, than somebody else who was raised on a different culture.
wtfzwrong 9 months ago
@IaintNoGood Fool. Bush and every other president the USA has had serve Satan. Not metaphorically speaking. They are actual satanists--this is why not bad, but horrible things keep happening (if not planned as ALL evidence suggests). God sacrificed HIS ONLY SON for YOU. Could you sacrifice your...anything??? Thought so. The Christian story and the plan of salvation are self-evident only a fool who didn't want to Love God couldn't see that.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@cdk007 1- Read a book.
2- No, that was the human sacrifice part of our governments satanic ritual--no act of God there (if you reply back questioning me on this without researching thats your cue to realize you actually ARE ignorant).
3- Humans are dumb. They NEVER LEARN FROM LUXARY. They only want to become gods through that.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
its hard to believe anything these days... all one can do is research and then research your research because there is definetly a turd in the punch bowl somewhere....
MsBushytail4ever 11 months ago
@nathaniel2784 These retards think God is just a genie who should be able to make things just pop into existence. They don't understand there is a perfect form and structure of perfection. Making living LOVING beings requires evil. How can God Force us to Love him and still be good? God cannot create a paradox since a paradox, in it's nature is not good.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@SuperSam424 So you are admitting God creates evil. That makes him evil.
Is there evil in heaven or does only good exist there?
Who is the "retard"? You believe in an imaginary friend who lives in the sky and you talk to him. Your silly fairy tale books says God makes things pop into existence and now you have the gall to call others retards because they refer to that? You really are a douche bag!
ninjamojo711 11 months ago
@ninjamojo711 "Your silly fairy tale books says God makes things pop into existence". Uh--no it doesn't. Thats just false. No more to it then that.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@SuperSam424 "Your silly fairy tale books says God makes things pop into existence",
Umm, yes it does. Ever heard of "Let there be light and there was light"? Jesus making the loaves appear? Moses: the burning bush just appeared? Paul: blinding light and vision just appeared. Elijah And Elisha just appeared out of nothing on the mountain top. I could go on and on!
Holy Crap, you are stupid. Read some more of your fairy tale book before you argue for it.
ninjamojo711 11 months ago
@SuperSam424 You made the stupid assumption that I don't know anything about your religion. It is very clear I know more about your religion, doctrine and dogma that you do.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
Epicurus
ninjamojo711 11 months ago
@SuperSam424
Evil, good, suffering, all these concepts while relative to everyone still enforce the concept of suffering in existence. Love is a human concept that stems from our survival instincts. If some supreme had wanted to be praised by every single being and rid the world of imperfection It would have made so that way, but it is in our nature not to. Way to disrespect those with opposing views by calling them retards. I understand--you are trying to prove something that cannot be proven.
ImpaledNoob 11 months ago
@ImpaledNoob Love is no survival instinct thats just bullshit. 2nd off " If some supreme had wanted to be praised by every single being and rid the world of imperfection It would have made so that way". NO--God is not a genie. THERE IS STRUCTURE TO PERFECTION. Nothing just pops into existence--plus thats a paradox to create beings that love you. He wouldn't be ALL LOVING if he did that. If I called anyone retarded I meant it as fact, not insult. I don't insult. Some people just say retard things
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@SuperSam424
Can't convince someone God exists even if their facts are completely logical? Call them retarded. Hahaha!
So far you claim:
- God exists
- God is loving
- God wrote a book
- God is perfect despite all of the imperfection in this world and even you for not being able to prove God's existence.
Facts about God:
-It can't be seen, studied, nor it can talk to anyone nor convince everyone that It is there.
-Loves favoritism & likes to create conflict
ImpaledNoob 11 months ago
@ImpaledNoob
1- Look up
2-No shit..you're not burning yet
3-300+ prophecies that came true..no shit
4- WE fell from HIS PERFECTION..NO SHIT
FACT- SHROUD OF TURIN.
LISTEN TO MY WORDS INSTEAD OF JUST HEARING THEM. YOU ARE SIMPLY A CHILD.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@SuperSam424
You are fare too gone dude, I am no longer wasting my time with you. You preach to people to open their minds and yet you have chosen to stick with an unfounded belief that can only be supported by making more stuff up. I'd rather burn in Hell like the millions of people before me who chose to be free (I am not even socially deviant), at least this way I'll know there's an asshole that implemented a scheme that dictates unconditional praise toward Itself. Good night :)
ImpaledNoob 11 months ago
@ImpaledNoob "by making more stuff up". <-----Thats simply how you interpret hearing unbelieveable things.
The plan for our salvation does not does not dictate love, it only gives you the opportunity for an eternity of it at its full glory and structure. No human being in his right mind would ACTUALLY choose evil. Come on, you know that. How would you not see that choosing the alternative (evil) is the wrong choice? Please don't tell me this is what atheists are blind to. Irony in words
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@SuperSam424
I wouldn't mind going to a fiery place for all eternity because I'd rather do that than submit to a life of control just to prove that the creator leans toward favoritism of those who follow Its commands despite being able to create beings that cannot sin. I would like to be made a reminder of, that God is an asshole, for those like me and those who lived in fear. I am not going to play the Christian God's game, if God wants me in Hell, I shall go there. Suffering is subjective.
ImpaledNoob 11 months ago
@SuperSam424
Hey dude, I've had enough of talking about the issue. I came here to check out opposing views that ultimately reinforced my own views. I am angry and disappointed at the possibility that an all supreme being could exist. I could surely go to Church every day and brainwash myself into thinking that God is love and all that stuff but my reality dictates otherwise. See you!
ImpaledNoob 11 months ago
@ImpaledNoob 1- He DID create beings that can't sin. They were ignorant--untill satan stepped in to destroy Gods creation. There are probably ALWAYS rebellious beings in a mass creation. Stop talking like God is responsible for the evil--he knows whatever we humans go through on earth is worth heaven. HE came down as a man and was belittled in every way possible by our "innocent" race then CRUCIFIED and this mad did nothing BUT Love. You won't be a reminder--you'll actually be forgotton.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@SuperSam424 "FACT- SHROUD OF TURIN."...ha! ha ha ha!!! Good one!
The Shroud of Turin has been proven time and again to be 14th century forgery.
Yes, there were many gullible Christians back then too. The difference is today's Christians should know better....but sadly no. Dark Ages mentality persists.
You still make me laugh.
"What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!" Pope Leo X.
ninjamojo711 11 months ago
@ninjamojo711 YOU WOULD use the already disproven, minute deatail of this mark of God. You would hype up the false carbon dating on it. HAVE YOU SEEN THE SHOWS ON THIS? THEY'RE STILL DISCOVERING MORE THINGS ABOUT IT. For example whatever hit that shroud to create that image DID NOT USE OUR LAWS OF PHYSICS. What about that!? But no you ignore the facinating and unbelievable parts because you would rather REALLY (not as a cool little atheist thing to say) just go to hell then open your eyes.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@SuperSam424 Hilarious!! Independent and separate tests have all shown time and again that the Shroud of Turin is a 14th century fake, fraud and forgery!!
But Christians can't accept that so they go on searching for some way to discredit the science so their delusions will fit their doctrine. (just like creationist science that searches for aspects to fit doctrine but ignore everything else).
Very dishonest and deceitful!
You forgot to mention all the failed prophecies of the bible.
ninjamojo711 11 months ago
@ninjamojo711 Have you only read one fraudulent source? You seem to be stuck on one liars interpretation. 2nd off all that about "find things to fit" yada yada yada simply just isn't true. Don't you think real Christians would look for real evidence (aka the prophecies). And what failed prophecies? The ones atheists just deny due to some BS they make us? If anyone is trying to create a different picture it's atheists and satanists. There are lies all over this world and you are simply believing.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@SuperSam424 you asked" Don't you think real Christians would look for real evidence?"
No, I don't! It's an observable fact that Christians only look for so called evidence that fits their agenda and doctrine and ignore glaring and undeniable evidence that is contrary to their belief system.
Could you just for one second open up your mind enough to consider your sources may be fraudulent?
ninjamojo711 11 months ago
@ninjamojo711 Hypocrite. You see--YOU JUST ASSUME. It's people like you that make up the dumb part of the world. AS IF atheists are better. It's an observable fact that atheists only look for so called evidence that fits their agenda and doctrine and ignore glaring and undeniable evidence that is contrary to their belief system.
Could you just for one second open up your mind enough to consider your sources may be fraudulent?
GET IT. GOOD.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@SuperSam424 Wow, you are brilliant. Take my words and argument and change it to reflect your bias and use it as a rebuttal against me. God must be so proud of you!
Are you capable of generating an original thought in your mind. Oh, I forgot, you aren't free to do that, you are chained to a mind controlling death cult. You are a slave. You have no freedom.
ninjamojo711 11 months ago
@SuperSam424 Who is assuming here? BTW, your use of ALL CAPS makes your argument so much more compelling.
You are assuming the tales of the bible are true. You are assuming that a person 2000 years ago defied the laws of nature, rose from the grave like zombie and flew up into heaven. You assume he was born of a virgin impregnated by a god you assume exists in the sky somewhere. You assume you know what the word atheist means. You also assume I am an atheist.
ninjamojo711 11 months ago
@ninjamojo711 YES IT DOES. You assume everything I assume. Let's not be hypocrites. uh--yeah, the incarnate of God CAN defy nature, hense, SUPERnatural. Adam and Eve could fly. But that went away after they fell. God "lives in the sky"? Yeah okay lets just dumb down the concept of God THEN we can win the arguemnt! Uh--you don't believe in the "man in the sky" and you probably relate him to santa and the "flying spegetti monster". You are an atheist.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@SuperSam424 I am so sorry for debating you and provoking you. I didn't realize you were mentally disabled. I shouldn't be messing with the minds of the deranged. Again, sorry. I didn't know.
I will move my discussion to the somewhat intellectual or at least those who can at least rationalize to a degree and have a basic concept of reality.
Go back to Elmo and Barney. I'm sorry I disturbed your temporary break from the straight-jacket.
ninjamojo711 11 months ago
@ninjamojo711 There is no debate. You simply resory to calling me deranged and mentally disabled and blah blah blah because you have nothing TRUE to say. You're probably filled with a bunch of half-truths and assumptions about Christians and the existence of the supernatural. You probably think Religious = stupid and atheists = intellectuals. You're falling into the newage deception like a whore in a LA bar. Please--read a book. Ants like you can't provoke me...let alone any REAL Christians.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@SuperSam424 You're telling me to read a book? I've read more books than you are capable of counting.
Maybe you should start reading something besides the children's bible they give you in Sunday school.
Do they have other books in the mental institute?
ninjamojo711 11 months ago
@ninjamojo71 Right. Because this "supposed" magic book I read is the "supposed" word of God and everything is "supposedly" actually coming true? Right. This is no "book". And They actually have many books in mental institutes. It's a common misconception they don't.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
I am interested if you could give me the proof against the reality of freewill, though, I do hope you are not referring to the experiments performed on the partial lobe that illicited involuntary responses. All this shows is that that our body is manipulated by the brain and is a tool for its control. I hope you further contemplate the implications of your view as determinism also implies that you cannot trust the truth statements of your own mind.
FatalKnight 11 months ago
If determinism is true, then theist cannot be blamed for your perceived flaw in reasoning because they have no choice otherwise. If our decisions are merely the result of neurons firing, then moral statements like should, ought, and chose break down, losing all meaning. You say that freewill would escape the causal reality of the physical universe, but you do not address the recent advances in quantum theory and how that may challenge our current perception of causality.
FatalKnight 11 months ago
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FatalKnight 11 months ago
If God is omniscient therefore It knows the future of all of its creations, therefore freewill is non-applicable. If God knows the future, therefore, by Christian standards, It knows who will end up in Hell and as a conclusion he is malevolent since It already knows who's going to end up in there. If I was a creator, would I give my creation the ability to comprehend every single idea and concept? If I didn't then I would be selfish, therefore egocentric, and by logic, imperfect.
ImpaledNoob 11 months ago
@ImpaledNoob You don't understand. God gives everyone equal opportunity. Just because He knows what YOU ARE GOING TO CHOOSE--it does not mean he is malevolent. If God does exist (and odds are he does), He MUST know, correct? If he did not, he would not be GOD. GOD = YOUR FOUNDATION. He is not equal to you so stop questioning metaphysical realities our minds can barley grasp due to our restriction being to only 3 out of the 11 dimensions. That is all.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@SuperSam424
An all supreme being wouldn't have the need to create the universe for It's own benefit, in fact, a supreme being wouldn't have any needs at all considering that It is omniscient. It's amusing that you assume that God is a person, a man, you pulled your beliefs right out of a book and now claim them to be true. I on the other hand have nothing to prove for there's nothing to prove :D A perfect God shouldn't have to judge their creations, why pay for Its own mistakes? Plain silly.
ImpaledNoob 11 months ago
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ImpaledNoob 11 months ago
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solution: 3minutesermons. blogspot. com/2011/03/problem-of-evil.html
LuckeyL 11 months ago
you do realize it rarely says God is all good... It says God is all LOVING... did your parents punish you when you were growing up to teach you a lesson and learn from it? people with these videos crack me up, must suck not to have a purpose in life....
gtpsleeper 1 year ago
@gtpsleeper Since bad behavior is determined by the physical structure of the brain and a creator god would be responsible for this physical structure, the creator god would be responsible for your bad behavior and it would therefore be morally reprehensible that he would hold you accountable for it rather than holding himself accountable. Furthermore, you imply that evil is a punishment, meaning that bad things happen to someone because they were bad. Why would a god severely punish babies?
GlobalHuntMan 11 months ago
@GlobalHuntMan Bad behavior is determined by MUCH more then the physical structure of the brain. The fallen angels of the Bible are everywhere; causing havok and influencing humans ever so subtly. We exist in the bass vibrational field. The lowest kind. We only experience 3 out of 11 dimensions. There is MUCH more to this world then structural physicalities of our bodies. You dare hold God accountable for evil in this world? We are fallen from HIS glory. In science terms that means WE AGE.
SuperSam424 11 months ago
@SuperSam424 The brain is a physical object, and as such, it is subject to the laws of physics. Our behavior is thus determined by the laws of physics. There is no evidence to suggest the laws of physics in the brain are violated by the interventions of "fallen angels," nor is there any evidence suggesting these "fallen angels" exist in the first place. I don't hold God accountable for evil because I would first have to have reason to believe he exists in order to impugn his intentions.
GlobalHuntMan 11 months ago
@GlobalHuntMan its because god gave us free will... to choose whether or not to do evil... because if you have no concept of evil then you cannot have a concept of good. God doesn use evil against individuals but evil in itself as a concept. whether or not you think god is ALL good and ALL powerful makes no difference in the logic of believing in God anyway so why does it really matter?
gtpsleeper 11 months ago
@gtpsleeper If there was no pain, suffering, and hatred and only love and happiness, I don't see how love and happiness would cease to exist. You are stating a claim without any kind of justification. Even if you did need the concept of evil for the concept of good to have meaning, an omnipotent god could give us an instinctual understanding of what evil is without us ever actually having to experience it or do it just as the brain has a certain instinctual understanding of other things.
GlobalHuntMan 11 months ago
@gtpsleeper In fact, this instinct which allows to differentiate between good and evil things presumably already exists in us as one doesn't have to experience or commit genocide to understand why it is a heinous crime. It is very much an instinct that genocide or any other kind of murder is bad. We don't generally "learn" what is good and bad; we, at those most fundamental level of moral decision making, simply know what is good and bad.
GlobalHuntMan 11 months ago
@gtpsleeper You keep invoking the concept of free will without any kind of explanation as to how human decision making can be independent of a god when it appears everything we do is simply the brain carrying out computations in accordance with its structural properties, structural properties for which an omnipotent god would have to be deemed responsible. A person does not "choose" the structure of their brain.
GlobalHuntMan 11 months ago
@gtpsleeper It is important to consider if a god can indeed be omnipotent and completely benevolent because many of the major world religions require that a god possess these characteristics, so the logical coherence of such a god would reflect on the logical coherence of these religions.
GlobalHuntMan 11 months ago