Kitty Hawk First Flight Recreation - 2003

[alotito]

And the Flier: DON´T FLY ! !

Their first flight was at France, in 1908. After many tries, the brother decided to buy a french motor, after observe the europeans flying he was able to fix the flyer problems and finally taked off.

Search also the testimony of "Alpheus Drinkwater," which was the telegraph operator who sent the famous telegram to his father's brothers.

Alpheus said in 1953: The correct date to celebrate the fiftieth anniversary would be 1958.

[gasparini20]

WHY THE WRIGHT BROTHERS AND ASKED ONLY OF A PATENT IN 1908 his airplane? ONLY AFTER SEVERAL ATTEMPTS TO SALE OF EQUIPMENT FOR THE ARMY AND CIVILIAN COMPANIES (NOT SELL WANTED TO SHOW THE PRODUCT).

[gasparini20]

AND EVEN IF THE PARENTS WERE WRIGHT AVIATION THEY WOULD NOT HAVE MADE ANY CONTROLLED FLIGHT BECAUSE THE FACT OF SANTOS DUMONT have invented the aileron. BEYOND BUT WOULD LIKE me explain WHY A REPLICA OF THE FLYER NOT THIS TIME FLEW. A stone is delivered a slingshot and VOA ALSO BEING SO DAVID THE GREAT INVENTOR OF THE PLANE. I ASK THAT YOU DO NOT BE SO TAKEN BY PARALLEL REALITY THAT YOUR AMERICAN GOVERNMENT NEEDED TO YOU.

[fgarcia84]

Flyer EPIC FAIL

If you add nitrous, turbo, and a powerful engine of an F15, you fly.

Santos Dumont FTW

[TheRockship]

Camp of Bagatelle (France) + October, 23 1906 + 14 Bis + Santos Dumont (Brazil) =

The real first flight.

[ishouldplayzelda]

wow the paper model of this plane i whipped up in 10 minutes flies better than this one

[CanterburyAtheists]

HISTORY LESSON: The first person to build and fly a heavier-than-air machine was the New Zealander Richard Pearce who flew 9 months before The Wright Brothers. The Wright Brothers were the first people to perform what is called ‘controlled’ flight. The first person to actual build & fly a mechanised plane, complete a powered-flight was Richard Pearce.

[sunshine135]

If anyone flew successfully before the Wright brothers, meaning a controlled, powered, heavier than air flight, they didn’t reproduce it again later. Most importantly, they didn’t bother to patent their machine.

[cokefan3]

what the heck is that?!?!??!???!???1

[beesyone]

Haha. What a perfect flight! Just like the Wronght Brothers did :-D

[TVMeusPensamentos]

Santos Dumont - the real father of Aviation!

[leonardo9306]

bem na verdade foram os irmão wright mesmo pois embora o flyer I não fosse lá aquela coisa , o flyer 3 de 1905 voava por até 38 km e fazia curvas, e isso 1 ano antes de santos dumont

[ALLofTHEWORDS]

i live on the obx and for the love of god they didnt fly in kitty hawk it was kill devil hills anyone know why this is always mixed up im not bitching but history books have gotten it wrong ass in reality kitty hawk is about mmmm 4 and half miles north of the origianal spot

[pumapreto]

this fracas proves once again that the Wrights did not conquer flight by a heavier-than-air. just check the American newspapers of the era, giving Santos-Dumont the credit of the first flight.

[warp13]

To a naive public and press, I guess it would look this way, then in 1908 the world thought differently once they understood how a machine should REALLY fly. It was all about perception and understanding. The Wrights were on a much higher tier this respect; their contemporaries just didn't understand what the Wrights did. Look at the difference in propellers, and wing camber, not to mention the ability to fly in a controlled circle without slip/skid.

[CaxiasFreguesia]

It is as the works of Blériot, Lilienthal, Voisin. Say that the contribution of Santos Dumont "is substantialy inferior in comparaison" is regretable, really sorry, as the use of a 100 kg engine to generate 12 HP and hope to take off. Santos Dumont never omit details of his plane, in PUBLIC EXPOSITION for others incorporate details in other flying machines. Justifying secrecy to gain money is ridiculous, no words ... The time their third machine operate it was surpassed by far by Demoiselle.

[warp13]

Cax-If you do the math, which the Wrights did, you'll see that it is possible with 12 hp. Really here major factors are thrust and drag. Since when is it wrong to patent ideas? There was nothing new in any of the designs that Dumont was using, so why would he be protective? The Wrights realized that they had solved the real problem of flight.

[CaxiasFreguesia]

No one can deny the merits of the Wright Bros. The problem is that in USA the name of Santos Dumont is deliberately omited. Why ? If is not deliberately, why is not mentionned ? Censorship ?

[warp13]

No it is not deliberately omitted, he is just not as well know because his contribution was not as substaintial in comparison. To say censorship is ridiculous, especially when we have a limitless information. I take it you don't live in the USA?

[metallica192006]

I think that this is neat to see on here.. I was there that day...and I remember how bad the rain was ...=/..other then that it was really neat

[wallyhines]

I was here for this demonstration.

The flyer was not pointed into the light and variable winds on this day.

They simply ran it along the track so all those who showed up could hear and see it move.

It is a crap shoot for the winds to be correct on any given day.

The 14-Bis was not inherently stable.

The Wrights were taken aback that others would just "try" and fly something without proper testing.

[warp13]

wallyhines-As I remember, I was an awful day with heavy downpour, they brought the machine out earlier in the morning, but did not attempt, then as you say, since they had a large crowd of "diehard" aviation buffs, they had to do something, so they gave it a try. I know that the motor was giving them trouble, and when wet was a problem. It did fly during the testing phase and would have flown if they had better conditions. The day before was such a beautiful day.

[warp13]

I've noticed that there is -1's on most of my comments, what's the deal?

[arthurmv]

All we know: The first man to fly is Santos Dummont, in the 14-Bis.

[FlavioCapimba]

Warp, only you in USA are capable of something, right ?

Attention to the fact that the Flyer weight 340 kg and was powered by a twin 12 hp engines. I wanna know about any aeronautic engineer assure that this machine could fly. Fake was the replica that did not fly in december 1903.

[warp13]

Flavio-I don't know what you mean by your first question. If you are implying that I believe that only in America is anything is anything invented, then you are wrong.

Yes 12 hp can lift 765 lbs. provided you have the thrust. No the replica did not fly in December 2003,however it did fly in November 2003, before 100 invited guests.

[flyer1lyer]

Warp13, Please show us November 2003 flight film or any other date. I never saw the Flier 1903 flying.

[warp13]

I'll give you the link, but you have to apologize once you watch it.

[warp13]

Flyer-It was the weather, even the Space Shuttle doesn't fly when the weather isn't cooperative, we humans can't control mother nature. I have seen the video for the Discovery Channel and it did FLY.

[flyer1lyer]

I saw the Discovery Channel video. I was a computer simmulation, not real!

Show me the Flyer 1903 flying. Many beatiful words did not makes the Flyer 1903 to fly.

14-Bis Replica is able to fly under rainning time. Surprised?

[warp13]

The Discovery Channel videos were not a computer simulations, you must have watched the wrong ones. Could you post the link to the videos that you are mentioning? It clearly shows the EAA Flyer during the test flights at Kill Devil Hills in November and early December 2003.

[gororos]

Shame. Santos Dumond was endeed the best Engineer Brazil ever had. This proves out that education does matter. What college the lyers brothers went to??

[warp13]

gororos-They never attended college, due to family matters Wilbur was unable to graduate from high school, however he had plans to attend Yale, he was an excellent student. Orville did not graduate either. Both brothers furthered their learning through self study and they were both very highly educated men. It shows in their engineering, it shows in their systematic approach to the flying problem.

[gororos]

A cracked wing can even happen on today's machines. A plane taking off on soil without wheels and aileron can't. Engineering is based on research and developmemt. The men who

[warp13]

Gororos-Motor problems can too. You are talking about 1903. The way in which people would fly was far from established. The sand provided safety. They used wing warping, not ailerons, the aileron had not yet been invented. My initial point was you are quick to cry foul when the Wright Flyer has difficulty, but not in the case of the 14 Biz.

Yes an aircraft can take off from the sand, if you use a monrail, like the Wright brothers.

[warp13]

gororos-Here's one for you:

watch?v=b1ybCSF2XlE&feature=re­lated

Enjoy.

[FlavioCapimba]

With all assistance, with all sponsors the replica did not fly. What about the defenders of the american brothers ?

[udigital]

I'm sorry Flavio. I was trying to comment on your last post and I accidently hit "remove". The buttons are right next to each other.

It won't happen again.

[warp13]

The problem was that the Flyer had to fly on this date, if the brothers had this weather 100 years ago, they (Wrights)would not have tried.

The replica did fly in tests.

The machine itself is something to admire. There are small details that deserve a closer look.

[FlavioCapimba]

The Wright Brothers were INVITED by french authorities and refused to show anything, by the excuse of patent interests. Voisin, Blériot, Caudron and other pioneers were present at Bagatelle, October, 23 1906 and ALL eywitnessed the first human flight. For many years the american propaganda machine tried not only to impose the a false reality and tried to erase the name of Santos Dumont of anything written.

[udigital]

Nobody in their right mind would show up when they were invited by "French Authorities". We all know about "French Authorities".

I've seen the Pink Panther movies many times.

[FlavioCapimba]

Santos Dumont flight was the first public demonstration than a heavier than air could take off by its own power.

[warp13]

Flavio-I didn't want to leave you out:

watch?v=b1ybCSF2XlE&feature=re­lated

Enjoy.

[udigital]

It doesn't really matter who invented flight. We Americans perfected poor airline customer service. There is no way Santos Dumont would have put up with a United stewardess (or whatever they call them now).

Whoever flew first, the U.S. perfected bitchy stewardesses.

[vlatu]

My point is very simple, the "Flyer" was the First airplane "heavier than air", but the 14-bis was the First airplane "heavier than air" under its own power without external assistance, and the First World Record in Aviation.

[warp13]

The replicas that I have seen flying of the 14-bis have a modern power plant. I have also seen one of the replicas wings break off. I have not seen an original replica with paddles and no skids, fly. let's see someone build and fly an ORIGINAL, just like the Wright Experience.

[vlatu]

Their words were "...We would like very much to have exact reports of the experiments made at Bagatelle and hope that you will draw up for us a correct list of the trials and GIVE US A DESCRIPTION OF THE FLYING MACHINE and a DRAWING of same."

[vlatu]

Two more things. ONE, the Wrights did two public "flights" with reporters on May 23 and May 26,1904 but the Flyer was incapable of taking-off. TWO, If the Wrights "knew" that they were light years ahead Dumont Why they sent a letter to Captain Ferber after the Dumont's flight? (Continue...)

[vlatu]

I can't enjoy the title, because I'm not brazilian. Also, I don't think the title is artificial, because 14-bis was capable of Taking-off UNDER ITS OWN POWER. That's the difference between the 14-bis and the "Flyer". Until 1908 the "Flyer" needed launch rails and a weight-powered catapult.

[vlatu]

Although ailerons had been used in sailplanes before, DUMONT pioneered their application for powered aircraft. He also pushed for and exploited substantial improvements in engine power-to-weight ratio, and other refinements in aircraft construction techniques. Don't forget his hydroglisseur and "The Demoiselle".

[warp13]

The reason they didn't have the first public flight is because they were protecting their patent. They let Dumont and Curtiss have the limelight, they knew that they were light years ahead in the control and propulsion and piloting.

Enjoy your artificial title.

[vlatu]

warp13, I disagree, Santos Dumont was a great inventor, his 14-bis was THE FIRST PUBLIC DEMONSTRATION IN THE WORLD of an aircraft taking off UNDER ITS OWN POWER in calm weather, proving to the spectators that a machine "heavier than air" could take off from the ground by its own means. He made numerous contributions to the field of aircraft control like the use of effective ailerons on the outer wings.

[warp13]

since your cut and paste, I'll join you with this quote:Leading French aviation promoter Ernest Archdeacon wrote, "For a long time, the Wright brothers have been accused in Europe of bluff...They are today hallowed in France, and I feel an intense pleasure...to make amends."

(cont)

[danzmf]

Lke i said!

HAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA­HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA­HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH­AAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA­HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA­HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAH­AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHA­HA

[danzmf]

Come on!!! hahahahahahha

Its serve for the americans learn that the real airplane inventor had a name!!!

SANTOS DUMONT!!!

[warp13]

Keep repeating and maybe someday you'll convince yourself, the guy was in a wicker basket, he was a balloonist, let him stay with that. He made a big box kite based on the Wrights design and put a motor on it, he still could not turn, he could hop a few feet.

[truenergy3313]

"They weren't the first to flight",Because "just after" the Dumont's flight(Oct,23th of 1906),the Wright Brothers "had claimed" the right to be the "first to flight".By the way,Santos Dumont had many European Authorities and the whole City of Paris to prove his flight.This is the History...America already have a lot of Big Inventors like Thomas Edison,Benjamin Franklin and many others...

[udigital]

Santos Dumont DID make a powered flight in 1906. But by that time I think the Wright Brothers had already added Stewardesses and in-flight movies. Hell, the probably had restrooms on the Wright Flyer by 1906.

Santos Dumont was a great aviation pioneer, and the second person to achieve powered flight.

[warp13]

This is like the most pointless argument, but it is refreshing to talk about the Wrights. It was known that they had flown by 1904. The inner circles knew. The agility of the Flyer compared to anything on either continent was far surpassed. Not only in control but in propulsion and structure.

[brentsrx7]

@truenergy3313 I like how udigital is making fun of you!!! hahahaha. Do you think the Wright brothers flew in 1903 and just threw in the towel??? They flew many flights in 1904 1905 and 1906, there are various photo's of their flights some with the flyer over 40 feet of the ground, some lasting up to 20 miles in distance. These are not propaganda, they are well documented events. How about you read some books little guy, and educate yourself. All Dumont could muster was a hop in 1906, lol.

[marcos13af]

In comparison,Santos Dumont had invented a airplane that could take off with it own power,unlike Wright's airplane that "aways" needed help to take off...

[udigital]

The "help to take off" is a good point.

"On September 20, 1904 Wilbur flew the first complete circle in history by a manned heavier-than-air powered machine, covering 4,080 feet (1,244 m) in about a minute and a half. Their two best flights were November 9 by Wilbur and December 1 by Orville, each exceeding five minutes and covering about three miles in almost four circles."

But they used a catapult. I won't dispute that Santos Dumont appears to have pioneered unassisted takeoff.

[udigital]

I guess it's a question of what you consider flight.

"Heavier than air" flight was probably the Wright Brothers.

"Unassisted takeoff and heavier than air flight" was probably Santos Dumont.

[marcos13af]

In fact,the Wright Brothers had tried to fly between 1900 to 1905,but only building things like a kite,trying to figure out the behavior of flight...Just "after 1906" they can flight and "just after 1906" they claim the right of the first man to fly in a heavier than air machine...They wasn't the first,that is the truth...

[pi4zinhu]

The Real Father of aviation was a brazillian, called Alberto Santos Dumont

The Wright Brothers is just another american lie, bullshits, bullshits and more bullshits.

In 2003 in the anniversary of "Wright Brothers First Flight" some people tryed to fly again, using a exactly replic of the Wright's aircraft, and guess... it DIDN'T WORK!

[udigital]

Santos Dumont didn't fly a heavier than air craft until 1906. By that time the Wright brothers were making half hour controlled flights. And while he was born in Brazil, he spend his life in France, which is where he built his aircraft.

He was an aviation pioneer, but by the time he flew his first plane, aviation was pretty well developed.

[marcos13af]

It can flight only after modern aerodynamic modification.The true prototype can't flight properly,independently of weather conditions.And the more important thing,it always used some sort of assistance to became airborne,requiring as stiff headwind or the use of launch rails.That's the truth.

[udigital]

You are correct. The headwind was not enough for takeoff. The mentioned that on the public address system.

One to the problems is that the did not do any modifications. Thus it couldn't fly in the low wind. The original couldn't either.

Thank you marcon13af, for correctly stating the issue.

[ZX2ManDave]

It was just a very bad weather day. Not a good day for flying. I recall that they got the plane up days later, and then took it around several places in the country such as here in Dayton, Ohio and did short flights with it.

[udigital]

The weather was fine that day. I was standing there. The plane just didn't work. No rain, slight headwind. Perfect take-off conditions. It was sponsored by Ford. Maybe it's just a case of the plane working like there cars.

[ZX2ManDave]

Are you watching the same video i am? Just look at it. The ground is wet, people in raincoats. Im talking about the video here....you can easily see that its nasty out.

Watch the video again. How can you say no rain?

[udigital]

I'm the one who shot the video. There was no rain at the time of the flight. The plane was on a track, so mud wasn't an issue. It just didn't work.

The raincoats were due to rain earlier in the morning. It wasn't that warm, so everyone just left them on.

The original Wright Flyer required much more wind that what was happening that morning. That was the problem. They pointed out on the PA that the wind probably wouldn't pick the plane up.

[udigital]

Also, note that I was standing there in a sweatshirt which wasn't wet. Thus no rain. My wife had the camera for a bit, and shot us standing in front of the monument just before the flight.

You may want to "watch the video again"

[ZX2ManDave]

If there was no rain, why is the ground wet? Why is there mud all around? Why does the wing go splash right into a puddle of water?

Why in the very first few seconds of the video was there a little boy wearing a RAINCOAT?

It had to be raining that day. Anyone can see that.

You must be blind.

This conversation is OVER.

[udigital]

I was the one standing there taking the pictures!!! It wasn't raining. I'm right and you are wrong.

It was raining earlier in the day. It stopped. There was no frigging water coming from the sky.

You don't get it. I was holding the camera. There was no water on me. There was no water on the camera lens.

[udigital]

The boy is my son. Please note. You can wear a rain coat when it's not raining.

Yes it was raining that day. It was not raining when the flight took place. Therefore the rain didn't affect the flight, Einstein.

The conversation was over the moment that I (the person standing there in the picture) correctly pointed out that it wasn't raining.

The plane sucked. That's why it didn't fly.

[warp13]

I wouldn't say that "the plane sucked" as you state. This replica was highly detailed, the problem was the wind, there wasn't any. I was there too, plus the fabric was wet, it had been out prior to this flight.

[udigital]

The plane was inside the white building up until flight time, so I don't think it was that wet. I agree it was a good replica. I was just trying to get the "it was raining" guy to shut up.

Yes, the problem was the wind, and they stated this. That's why I don't get why people were arguing about it. The original required wind to fly, and so did this one.

[warp13]

That was some day. I remember that they had brought the flyer out early in the day for the first attempt and ran the motor, then they brought it back in until much later. They even changed the launch direction.

When I said wet, I don't mean saturated, it was damp, I remember going into the hanger and hearing talk about this.

I am surprised they even attempted, I suppose for the crowds sake, but the headwind would have had to have been VERY strong (20-25 mph or better).

[pumapreto]

bad day ior not, it did not fly! why didn't they fly it another day just to prove it flies? well, they never flew it and everyone knows why.

it dioesn't help to say that the Wrights were ahead of everybody in 1903, when in fact, they showed their aircraft in 1908 for the first time. by that time, others had mastered flight completely! NO ONE BUT NATIONALISTS AND UNINFORMED PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE IN THE 1908WRIGHT claims that they had flown in 1903! that's pure rewriting of history!

[warp13]

But it did fly, check out my postings,same machine, different day. From what I understand this is not an easy machine to pilot, it takes a tremendous amount of skill to master in addition to having the right conditions to fly. But it did fly during the test flights. Again it must be understood how to gauge what flying means by 1903 standards, especially when there really is nothing to compare to at that time.

[BearFlight]

@pumapreto Doesn't matter when the Wrights first flew, because when Wilbur started his demonstration flights at LeMans, France on Aug 8, 1908, that was the first time anyone in Europe had seen an airplane fly. Before they had seen various machines attempt to fly, but all they could do was power hop for a short distance. The Wright's Flyer III "A" took off, climbed, banked, and turned, 1st ever seen in Europe and within a year, everyone was capable of doing it!

[saito125]

They could use a lesson or two from Santos Dumont...

[udigital]

I looked up Santos Dumont. Good comment.

[pumapreto]

I saw the whole thing on tv. what an embarrassment!!! no wonder Discover HD suppressed the main part of the footage!!!

[bearsfaan]

Thanks for adding this. I watched a two hour special about the work that went into building the original Wright craft and this version on Discovery HD, but the video ends right before they take it to Kitty Hawk! I lived in Virginia in 2003 and vaguely remembered reading about the plane not flying, but I couldn't remember for sure. Now I know. :)