Simulation of the Rhode Island nightclub fire using buildingEXODUS V4.0 and SMARTFIRE V4.1

[PimpingRice]

This is so confusing

[FSEGresearch]

@PimpingRice Most mass evacuations are confusing. What do you find confusing about the video?

[PimpingRice]

@FSEGresearch Agree, but it is not the evacuations fault. Whereas it is the designer who is either clear or unclear. You failed to provide color white and yellow and what exit is which in comparison to the video.

[FSEGresearch]

@PimpingRice The design of the night club was compliant with regulations. But I believe that too many people were in the nightclub. This is one of the reasons that so many people died. In addition, the exits were not well positioned (one exit in the kitchen for example). Also, most people were only familar with the main exit as this is the only exit that would normally be used. This exit was quite narrrow (for the number of people who would use it) and had restricted access due to security.

[SteveWard3928]

Who are the people in yellow?

[FSEGresearch]

@SteveWard3928 The colours of the people represent different ranges of response times - this is the time between the occupants being alerted and the time that they start to evacuate. The yellow people have quite long response times as they are not in contact with the developing fire hazards

[SteveWard3928]

OK so the green boxes are windows, orangish boxes are doors?? The band stage is on the far wall from the 2 orange boxes that are side by side (Main entrance?)? Are the pool tables to the right of main entrance? Are those offices to the left of main entrance? Sorry for the questions as we do not live in Rhode Island. S&S

[FSEGresearch]

@SteveWard3928 No problems with the questions, we are happy to answer any questions. Exits be they windows or doors are coloured organge if they are not being used and they change colour to green when they are in operation. The windows take some time before they go from organge to green. Pool tables are in the room to the right of the main exit, The bar is to the left of the main entrance.

[TheWaynelds]

is this the one where the great white was playing when the pyro techs failed?

[FSEGresearch]

@TheWaynelds Yes.

[dalewormheart3704]

I don't think as many people got out the backdoor as this simulation

[FSEGresearch]

@dalewormheart3704The simulation is not perfect but shows a reasonable representation of what happened.

[000Winter000]

I don`t see the stage..

[FSEGresearch]

@000Winter000 The stage is to the right of the dance floor in the alcove. It is the first floor area covered in black tiles indicating the teh presence fo smoke at head height.

[JosephP55]

I have studied this particular fire and I see several things that are not in agreement with the actual events. There are three major deficiencies:

1. In the simulation, far too many people escape out the stage door to the right. This simulation shows about 40 people exiting there; in reality only about 10 people went out that way. Even though it was the closest exit for many, it required moving towards the fire and away from the direction from which they entered.

(continued in next post)

[FSEGresearch]

@JosephP55 See replies to other comments which I think addresses this point.

[JosephP55]

2. This simulation evidently assumes that people know where all the exits are and that they will always move towards them, as it shows all of the patrons moving only towards doors or windows. In actually, 27 of the 100 victims were found in the areas in the upper left where there are no exits. These people evidently moved there looking for exits and became trapped.

[FSEGresearch]

@JosephP55 The software can be run using the assumption that agents know all the exits. But in this simulation, we only gave the agents knowledged of the main exit. Within the simulation, agents can also look for signs leading to an exit. Within the simulation, the vast majority of agents will therefore move towards the main exit, or if they see the signs, the other exits.

[JosephP55]

I think that this is an important and useful simulation. There are a few significant errors, however:

1. The simulation shows many people (about 40) escaping from the stage door located on the right side. However, in actuality less than a dozen people came out that door. To exit that way would have required people to move towards the fire and away from the direction they entered. There are also reports that in the first few seconds people were prevented from exiting that way by the band.

[FSEGresearch]

@JosephP55 In this simulation we did not include staff intervention. So there is no interaction with the patrons and the staff.

[MrGhostblood]

I don't understand why so many grown men were standing around and no one was helping but a few people. If 10 to 15 men would all gotten at the front door and pulled arms and legs all at once, I think there would have been more survivors. So what if you break people's arms and legs when you pull really hard. It's better than having them burn to death right in front of you. These people knew they were going to die. Their legs were all the first to burn, which means they suffered for a long time.

[bottle2lip]

looks like being near the bar was the best spot, and those people saw the exit before the smoke got really bad.

i might of been to drunk and perished though

[beeroosterm]

@bottle2lip The smoke was bad within 60 seconds. After that, maybe you had another 30-60 seconds before you were unconscious. After that, dead.

[resdsox1]

I really hate it when people make a simuation of big events like RI night club fire & September 11'th

[FSEGresearch]

@resdsox1 By trying to reproduce actual events we can identify potential problems with our models and improve them. By improving our models, they become better design tools enabling engineers to design safer structures and hopefully preventing similar disasters from happening in the future.  Real world incidents, provide us with important insight into real human behaviours that we cannot ever hope to reproduce in an experiment. So some good can come out of these tragedies.

[ChristopherSaindon]

@FSEGresearch Oh I agree. I don't understand how anyone can have a problem with this. I am very grateful to you for showing this. I have 2 Nephews and a Niece and want them always to remember where the exit is at big events indoors ("outdoors" too I.E. the Soccer disaster in England in 1985). I was a mess when I learned that 3 hours after I broke in to TV prog warning of possible tornadoes in April 2004 8 people still died. And they took what were thought to be good precautions :-(

[steviesteviesteviec]

@resdsox1 dont watch it then

[flames41418]

@resdsox1 Its not like he's making a conspiracy video.

[MorganTheMouse]

wasnt the nightclub made for like 300 ppl, and they had over 450 ppl there, so its the managers fault and hes serving 30 years for this...

[AgentMrX7]

I can't believe that 360 managed to get out of there... this kinda gives me the chills because when I look back at other nightclubs I've been too I can't recall being aware of any other exits except the entrance

[FSEGresearch]

@AgentMrX7 Yes, this is a difficulty in many night clubs. By their very nature they are dark places, with dim lighting. In many cases the signage is poor - detracts from the ambience in the eyes of the operators - and the exits are usually poorly lit. In some cases the emergency exits may even be locked due to "security" issues. Whenever you go to such public venues, you should always scope out the place and make sure you know where the emergency exits are, and that they work!

[mookixox]

The next time the club tells me the club is at capacity I won't give them a hard time anymore and leave, no fucking way I'm putting myself in a sardine can and end up like these souls...

[quidnick]

rhode island is retarded when it comes to safety. I'm afraid to drive across bridges when the undersides of them are rusted and in ill repair. This is a classic case of not only bad infrastructure, but also human ignorance... the pyrotechnic guy needed to get some common sense (it was a low building) and also the men blocking off the front exit -represented here by the orange blocks. They let none of them through, and most of those patrons died that night.

[RK831]

About 360 people got out, but 100 didn't.  Sucks, man.

[FSEGresearch]

Thank you for your comments. The area to the right with the 4 orange blocks represents windows to the front of the building. These were broken during the incident and people climbed out of these. We have undertaken a detailed analysis of the design in which we modify the building layout, including putting in larger exits and simplying the existing entrance to the building. These modifications greatly reduce the death toll but do not reduce it to zero.

[rosrychaplet]

could you please go into more details about your legend on the grid? who are the reds, whites, and yellows?  i can only assume red are the concert goers.

[FSEGresearch]

Thanks for your comments. I have added some text to the description to address your points.

[hebneh]

This is interesting - I guess - but:

Where is the fire?

Which is the main entrance?

What do the different colors of the people signify? What about the different, changing colors of the floor in different rooms?

Does this show actual locations of dead people, or theoretical locations?

Explaining these facts would make this far more useful to look at.

[FSEGresearch]

Thank you for your interest. The fire starts on the stage. If you view the SMARTFIRE videos you can view the full fire simulation associated with this evacuation simulation. The main entrance is towards the front of the building which is located at the bottom of the image. Your other questions are addressed in the modified caption for the animation.

[smackythefrog23]

the large area, right of the front doors, where the 4 orange blocks are, should have, in all logical design elements, been the main entry/exit from the club. can you generate a simulation based on that criteria, and see how many more would have survived?