The problem with religion (especially the Abrahamic religions) is that they try to humanize God too much.They give him name Yahweh/Allah/Elohim, home heaven, son Jesus, and personality benevolent and merciful.We Deist look at the universe in a more rational manner, we see this powerful entity as the first cause of the universe.We don't need to depend on divine powers as we live. We were given the ability to reason and free will, therefore no need for this Deity to intervene in our affairs.
Well Driscoll, why would an all-powerful creator (which I do believe in) would be constantly involved with the affairs of a single on a single planet? Would I be overly obsessed with what's happening with a group of plankton living deep in the Antarctic Ocean? No. We are inherently insignificant to the rest of the universe. People need to stop acting like we are the center of it.
Gosh. I think the deists are almost as zealous at the atheists. Maybe, just maybe.
For those of you who are verbally impaired, he is describing deism in easily accessible Christian terms. You may not like the way he characterizes deism, because its not FOR YOU. Morons. His message is still accurate in the best of my judgment, its just not put in words FOR YOU.
Regardless, still spam the comments with your stupidity. Most people are used to it by now. They just say hey, its the internet.
So pastor you would rather have a God that stuck around and commanded moses to slaughter hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children? Nah.....its just not universal. Deism is..Nature proves it.
The description Mark gave of the deist god is actually more like the christian god!! Your on your own, your prayers aren't answered, god doesn't care about you, he could give two shits. Because that is exactly what abused children think about the christian god when they are getting rapped by a priest over and over again and the priest just gets moved to another parish while the child is left with the scars for life!!!!!!!!!
Have you thought about doing actual research on Deism? What you said is only the half truth. We don't believe in a personal "god" because "god" fixed the world to run on a scientific set of principles so we could be self-sufficient. I personally believe that whoever or whatever "god" is, he is just watching us like a television set. I would also like to add that when I was Christian, It made me hate myself. I was closest to being suicidal when I was Christian. Now I have respect for myself.
What an ignorant S O B : As I understand Deism God does not abandon us. he empowers us to make the right choices. I have lost respect for the Christians because they perpetuate their hellfire and savior myths to control and manipulate the masses.
I'm a Deist, and the thing is we don't need a so-called 'Hero' or 'Saviour' because we don't have a fallen world or eternal torture we need to be saved from.
I respect Christainity as I do all beliefs. I'm not going to bash it like many others are. But it is admittedly unfair to assume all deists will end up hopeless with despair when faced with tough situations. I personally find Christianity and some of its doctrines worthy of more despair.
If i had a dollar for every correct assumption he makes in this video..... I would have 1 dollar. He got the definition correct, and it goes very VERY far downhill from there
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, John Adams and many of the Founding Fathers were Deists. They all become great American heroes and wrote the Constitution without the belief of a personal god. It's either coincidence or Deism if a better option....
Wow...this sounds like people should take some fuckin' responsibility for their life, and not rely on a book or priest and turn to their friends when things get bad. Deists are not suicidal. The actual progression to life is such that it will blow your fucking mind to think about it.
@Jerkwad152 I can't say that I fully catch your drift. One of the main points of deism is that we realize that we can't know the unknowable. The Christian theodicy gives a narrow view of the world when the world when the world is far more complex that what this book proposes. Why do people need a guarantee for an afterlife? We are the only species that knows life is finite and so we reach out and make up comfort stories, and sadly the Christian stories are terrifying.
@deistforever2001 Humanity doesn't need a savior. We have the resources and knowledge to care for the entire species but we don't act on it. I really hope that you will look into deism with an open mind. That is one of the main problems that I have with religion as a whole is that it has built in self-defense mechanisms. If God were all powerful, why would he need to threated people into obedience and unquestioning faith? I like your style. I just wish you would give something else a try.
The Architect is not like a "father", so the abandonment association is ridiculous. What we propose is that God created this Universe, and that for him to cause miracles would be to break HIS OWN natural laws that he put into place. I believe that it is possible that God is looking down and seeing what his creation is doing, but this cannot be deduced from logic. Only a primary starter can be deduced from logic. We don't need the "faith" you have when we have reason.
It's enough that He gave you a brain to think to make you feel blessed. You've got to think for yourself, that's what your brain is for. You don't live your life according to what your pastors dictate you. Your future depends on what you're doing today. If the future has been drawn out, then there's no point in living. :]
I'm a deist, but for me God didn't abandon me. Actually, He love me so much He gave me life and the opportunity how to be alive. Your description of "my" God is absurd. He's a supreme being and is the reason you're breathing. How can you call him incompetent and just left this fucked up place?
I'm just sick and tired of being sick and tired of people who are just so arrogant to actually believe that their belief or unbelief is the truth the light and way and anyone who thinks differently(the majority) is some blind sheep or misguided soul. I can't wait for the day when people can believe in whatever the fuck they want freely. My motto is as long as I have nothing to do with it your belief is fine by me and I will always defend your right to have it.
@knucks360 The "Hero" has already came as Phrophet/ Preist/ and King who reigns and gives everlasting life as well as His Glory and Personhood to those who believe and obey Him. Everlasting life that is peace. a new heaven. a new earth, a life that extends beyond time and human reality.. Its Amazing Its Glorious and Matchless this hope and confidence is available right now, for you too,, Its real It will carry you through all circumstances, experiences and emotions, and even death !!!
I guess this explains why we always hear about those damn deists killing themselves. I get tired of the hearing that night after night on the news, fucking deists.
Wow, this guy has 'abandonment issues'...is he saying that all Deists suffer from depression, seek self-medication and eventually will commit suicide? Hmmm, well for the past 40 years...I haven't done any of those things or suffered from any of those aforementioned conditions, and I'm a Deist. :) Misinformation, much? :D <3
Don't you twist Mark's words to suit your own indignant trolling.
He didn't say that you will automatically kill yourself if you're a deist. He said, statistically, that you've got a better chance of it. Christians, no matter the denomination, on average have longer lifespans. Look it up.
I'm a deist, and I have no plans of committing suicide. I find it very rude of him to say such a thing, especially when it is so clear that he has no idea what he's talking about. It looks like he is mocking deism, and he's looking for someone to laugh at his jokes, instead of making fair arguments of his opinions.
@lindaterese33 I drew the same conclusions...pity the pastor never gave critical thinking a sincere effort. Greetings, Fellow Deist. :D <3 Well met! X)
@connerjd This comment is evidence of why people don't want to believe in the true living God. They love their sin and don't want to obey God. Period.
You know, people like this is why I avoid religion. I'm aware that Deism is not a religion but a viewpoint. But this guy has got it all wrong. "There is a happiness in Deism, when rightly understood, that is not to be found in any other system of religion. All other systems have something in them that either shock our reason, or are repugnant to it, and man, if he thinks at all, must stifle his reason in order to force himself to believe them." - Thomas Paine. Enough said.
Liked it up 'til the conclusion. Granted, it is a hard idea to stomach, but some people are capable of handling the idea that they are "on their own" in life, and don't slip into depression, etc. at the thought of this. To me it is a bit of a disingenuous, biased summary. Good presentation, though.
Is this guy ignorant to what Deism is or is he just telling outright lies? I find it hard to believe that he's that ignorant... some of that had to be intentional.
You left out one important part of Deism....."Reason" Deist believe that God gave us the intelligence and all the tools needed to lead a productive and blessed life, and we thank him for that. We don't need to continually grovel and beg Him to give us things. Most importantly we are not afraid of Him, especially not afraid that He created us imperfect and then plans on sending us to eternal punishment for being what He created.....doesn't make sense, never did, and that is why I am a Deist
@0:25 It's a lot of work? Hard work? It should be infinitely easier than an eye blink for an all powerful supreme being. A tiny shred of compelling evidence would be a nice place to start.
Ahh...so this would require --ACTUAL-- morality, not just you grudging compliance to avoid punishment or attain rewards...
This man did NO research on deism other then, probably, looking it up on wikipedia. In his like second sentence he made claim to sin. Deists don't really believe in sin. This man is a ass.
Sorry folks, but it seems that he's saying that belief in gods is the only coping skill that works. Not true. Dealing with depression can come in a variety of ways, and if you're not able to believe in invisible gods, you can find other ways to live.
This is a typical attack on deism from bible nuts. The main belief of deism is the creator (if you want to call it that) gave us reason, and intelligence. If something really did create the universe, I think it has enough to worry about then what I or someone else does. This is a misrepresentation of deism, do not listen to this hack.
All this guy did was demonized Deism. You put up your arms and made that facial expression. And what was with that ending? "Depression, medication, suicide." Yes. Existence is tough. What we do is act like MEN and get through it. Maybe I should go and molest some children in a confessional. Would that be more acceptable to you?
I hate when people suggest that Deists think "God created us and then left" - as if WE believe in THEIR (the Christian/Jewish/Muslim) version of God. A better definition (at least for myself) would be that 1) we believe in "nature's God" - kind of like 'pantheism', and 2) Our 'God' does not intervene in the daily lives of people, except for what nature brings. I.E. 'God' didn't send the earthquake to Japan nor did 'he' speak to anyone who happened to be taking a shower alone this morning.
@tracytubevideos : Agreed. This guy is nothing more than a typical organized religion cheerleader. They love to make people think that they need religion (especially THEIR religion) in order to be in touch with 'God', which is completely untrue.
Can you refute these beliefs with anything other than the bible? I also love how this guys audience is Christian. I'm deist and this guys IGNORANT attack on deism is a great display of his lack of evidence.
What is most likely is that there is a Unifed Field of Intelligent Consciousness also called the Net - it's the matrix that our multiverse exists in throughout time and space. It has been proposed that the 72 "fallen" angels are beings that organize under the Unifed Field and then commence to create their own experiment of existence by designing and maintaining the astral and dense 'human' realms that exist below a) The Unified Field b) the 72/3 Fallen Angels or 72 Names of God c) The Astral
I was raised a catholic before turning to Deism before eventually realizing theres nothing to prove either so I went full Atheist in that Science can explain everything and what it cannot explain does not mean a God is automatically the answer to... it just means we dont know yet.
@Krapenhoeffer In a deist sense, sin is simply the term given to things we know are bad (ie killing). Also, it really depends from deist to deist if they believe in sin. It isn't like Christianity where there is a certain set of rules that each person abides by. Rather, people take a look at the world and decide for themselves.
Ok. I clicked expecting something more. This guy just spit out the first thing that came to mind. Deists don't believe the Creator actively participates in human affairs - that is not the same as abandonment. It's an observer! Some modern Deists believe the Creator transcents human terms like personal/impersonal. It's people like this (ignorant of other systems) that me glad I switched!
I use to attend that church and loved pastor Mark's sermons, but listening to this i can see how he can pass a really bastardized explanation of Deism to the masses and they eat it right up. Your idea of a god that created and abandoned the world is based solely on principals of Christianity. This is because of how the bible portrays a God. If you pray to a Deistic God to be healed and then to a Christian god for the same reason do you think the results would be different?
I don't want the God from the bible to interfere with my life! I'd be committing horrible deeds like sacrificing my children (Jephthah, Abraham), and I'd be schizophrenic. Not a happy life.
I'm born to a Muslim father and a Christian mother. In 2003, I almost got jailed for drugs. One day in the holding cell, lunch was served with yogurt, I had one spoonful and then the yogurt fell on the floor and formed a heart shape. Instead of serving a 5 year jail term, I was released with 1 year probation. From that day, I started seeing heart shapes everywhere I look. In 2005, I was blessed with a baby girl born with a birth mark on her forehead..a heart shape.
when life gets hard, deists get depressed.self medicated...then suicide???? =/ wow. that's a low budget observation. there's other solutions to lifes problems besides Jesus.
Its funny how no pastors ever mention that some of the most brilliant people in history were Deists. Furthermore who do you think had the biggest parts to play in the scientific discovery of our world and all the inventions of the 21 century, sure as hell not Christians.
@metahelix i was pretty sure that lots of early scientists were christians like galileo and newton. right? but regardless, it doesn't matter what they believe. I imagine there are brilliant scientists who are Christian, Muslim, Atheist and whatever else... none of that matters. Everyone has their bias in what they promote. Deists don't go around telling who was a Christian to support their cause. They find the deists and make it sound good.
@PliableGreyness "it doesn't matter what they believe. I imagine there are brilliant scientists who are Christian, Muslim, Atheist and whatever else... none of that matters."
It doesn't matter *if* they actually don't being superstitious nonsense with them to the office. And if they don't, it's hard to claim that they actually are theists. If you believe in a god that meddles with nature at random and in response to people's prayers and masturbation you have no reason to believe in natural law.
@PliableGreyness And that is fairly important. The enterprise of science is simply useless unless you are of the opinion that nature can be predicted. Initial support for this belief follows directly from sensory experience, and is supported through investigation, but it is contradicted by belief in supernature of all kinds. To call this a "bias" is a bit silly, unless you're talking about a bias towards demonstrable phenomena vs a bias towards believing unsupported bullshit for no reason.
@metahelix in my opinion, the thing that gives any one's beliefs substance, whether christian, deist, atheist, hindu or whatever, is what is promoted by their life. who gives what they believe. if it promotes bad shit, it's condemnable. If it promotes good and well being,... great. I want my life and my actions to be of substance, not what the founders of deism believed and did. Though I relate most to deism, most christian lives are more appealing as far as compassion and goodness are concerned
@PliableGreyness I can see your point but if you look at history a different picture emerges, look how many people died and are still dying and killing in the name of their particular god, you might find religious people to have good intentions individually and their calling might sound like a peaceful loving existence, but historically as a whole it is a bloody and violent existence. People are fully capable of living happy loving lives without the framework of a personal god.
emmm WOW he is angry! these are the people that make me question religion! so much hate in his heart
the beauty in deism is that im not condemned because im not following gods word from a book, just left to believe in him and follow my heart as i KNOW that god is in my heart
how will little old me know for sure which is the correct religion to follow
there is nothing that you will say that someone of a different religion has interpreted to me according to their chosen scriptures.
why do most "religions" condemn the "others" for not believing the same.thats just Hate talking.
relax!!, believe in him ,dont be angry !!!!
god hasn't left us ! he still is present in my heart ! He still here WHAT are you talking about ???
we are here to make progress improve ourselves be better LOVE live with good morals and give what you can to your fellow men , help love support faith etc
No lol he's actually pretty spot on. Im not saying that he doesn't have an agenda with his message (this much is obvious) but he's pretty accurate in his interpretation (feel free to look it up). I've noticed that this pastor tends to get beat up a bit by unfavorable comments. I do find it funny tho, that the majority of his critics are wise in their own eyes but uninformed and spiritually ignorant overall.
This is the stupidest comment on Deism I have ever heard. I was a Christian but fortunately, thanks to God and Its gift of reason left this ...t.
This idiot knows nothing about Deism, maybe he had read some definitions of others Christians about Deism... Oh Nature`s God, my loved Creator, when listening to this man I completely understand why you left your work...
I'm a deist and the way you make it seem like is like Deist are people who are miserable, and pessimistic. It's not that Deist look at the bad in life. It's just that we don't think that God answers too people prayers, and yes he left the earth a lone, and you can see that in the condition that the earth is in right now for the proof.
That's why I'm not down with religion because the way they view they're beliefs very close minded, and don't think with logic especially Christians. Because if we were in a world without religion this world wouldn't nearly as bad as it is now. Because religion is really just based on power like every corrupted thing on this earth is(though it was originally meant to better people), but like companies they're going to be corrupted people.
@thedeadlyflow **Yup, the earth is corrupted, and has been since nearly the beginning. That's the thing with "free will." As a Christian myself, I find it interesting that so many non-Christians rush to judge us as all so closed-minded. I'm firm in my beliefs, yes, but I honor the fact that you have the choice to believe in what you do as well. My beliefs are these: Love Jesus, and love my neighbor, no matter what he or she believes, or does. "NoReligion" is your religion!
@parus55 funny part is with Christians a lot of you guys (not saying you) think that Jesus is God and most Christians tend to Ridicule people if they don't follow their beliefs and try to make them look inferior and think that their perfect. I'm a Deist bro and my belief is that God made the earth and universe,but left it alone. But my Philosophy is that either God is testing us or isn't to concerned.
I guess this is the biggest part of some of Deist's belief i dont get. Why do you feel God left? What would you have God do if you could interact? Would you pray for rain? What if your neighbor is praying for sun. Would you be asked to heal ? What if your government is producing biological deceases to make you sick on purpose for their means?. My examples may not be the best or well thought out but how much intervention could you expect from a deity that governs 6.8 billion?
@metahelix I could see where your coming from bro, but if God doesn' t leave the Earth alone then why is it there is so much misery and chaos on this earth then? Like I said before if that's not the case then that makes God an enabler. Besides as far as beliefs go I'm like half Deist half Agnostic.
@thedeadlyflow Im glad you asked :), This is my personal thought. If you are familiar at all with basic biology, physics and chemistry you can see that everything on this planet functions on the same principals. The strongest animals breed and reproduce which ensures their survival, all animals use resources available to them to survive, humans also function by the same principals but at a more complex level. Lion hunts an antelope(resource for survival), we go to war over oil.
@parus55 Yeah you know that just makes God an enabler by allowing people to suffer because others want to be despicable.If you allow someone to beat the shit out of your friend that would make you an enabler if you didn't attempt to do anything about it.
@parus55 Haha and I'm a very open minded person I don't care if you're christian,Muslim,Jewish,Hindu,Buddhist,atheist,agnostic,pantheist,Deist,anti-theist etc. it's just how you treat people. Because trust me I have friends in those list of religions/beliefs and my mother and her family christian adventist to be exact I'm not close minded I'm giving you my perception of Christians.
I think the answer to that question is the depth of each persons(Christian,Deist, etc..) knowledge of the subject. I have noticed the most hardcore and angriest Christians are those that really do not know the book and religion they are proclaiming, so i to have all the tolerance for different faiths since mine is just that, as long as you use your god given mind to discover and seek him through meditation(thinking deeply).
@thestupidgenius55 - Sure. I've thought of that often. The great thing about Deism is that you can believe whatever you want to about God. There is no religious dogma or doctrine you have to adhere to. Then again, there is no evidence in support of that belief. You'd be taking a leap of faith.
Absolutely, being a Deist is unlike subscribing to an "revealed" belief such as Christianity or Judaism. Deists do not follow any revealed school of thought. Their faith in a creator is the life we have,as in the complexity and vastness of our universe through which we can see there had to be a divine architect. If you learn not to put everything in terms of Christianity Ex. notion of heaven and hell, you will be able to open your mind to the true God. :)
@MrCharrrles Well, for one thing he puts all deists in the world under one assumption but I did a little research and there are many various aspects of deism. I personally don't feel so much abandoned as blessed with a good planet and a free country as well as being able to think freely for myself and [as I said in my last comment] there is possibily an afterlife [although no 100% guarantee].
I don't think this brainiac could find his own ass with both hands. He's just another self proclaimed biblical intellectual who has a soap box for his opinions. And people wonder why I feel Christianity is nothing more than an effort to control the minds of men. Always be skeptical of ANYONE who claims to have all of the answers. Driscoll, you're a fraud.
@williamdecypher Someone get this guy a book to read, or at least give him access to a search engine. :) Deists don't give him sweet cash, that can be the reason he is against them.
Not specific to this world view, but just because you Don't like something, DOES NOT MAKE IT NOT REAL!
Just because you don't like the fact your god does not exist christians does not mean that he does. So stop trying to use that to prove people wrong. It doesn't work.
This guy is a hot mess of misinformation. Even world views that don't have anything to do with Christianity he can't depict without contextualizing them within the confines of Christian mythology; "..We sinned and rebelled and God left.."?? Where does he get such nonsense?
Oh dear you can have so much fun with these people in a Q&A. Two quotes come to mind, Faith, belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge. The latter is True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing, that's why I love Deism, we start from here then expand on facts, people like this fool in the video start from knowing everything yet can prove absolute zero.
Sir, you are ignorant of what deism is. God is everywhere, GOD just doesn't interfere because he wants us to make our own choices and control our own destiny. God wants us to help ourselves.
Wow. Our Creator sounds so week we he talks about Him (or It as many Deists prefer). I found Deism to be freeing of fear controlling religion. Yes there are problems in this world and we have the ability to change them, ignore them, or add to them. However, why is it I was depressed in Christianity and awed by the greatness of God in Deism? I think this guy needs to get his crystal ball rechecked.
This guy is an idiot. I am a deist and he obviously was enlightened with reason to know what he's talking about. If he knew what deism is and understood it he wouldn't be up there preaching. Enough said.
Your wrong,and you have no clue who,or what a Deist is. Take Thomas Paine's definition,and not Noah Webster's when talking about Deism,or the reality of God.
This guy's understanding of Deism is so far off base, it's not even worth trying to refute. For those of you such as SecretAsianMan00 that are unsure what he is misrepresenting, the answer is-everything.
Depression, self-medication and suicide? Where does this asshole get off saying that Christians are happier than everyone else? It's a crock. Without 'God', most people find understandings on their own, and the means they use to deal with the harshnesses of the world have a basis in reality.
This is more nourishing than a book that delivers false promises and misdirection. I've met plenty of Christians who are depressed. Why? Because neither the world nor God are as the Bible say they are
What UFO does "HE" drive. If God's a "He" than who or WHAT is "HE?" because "HE" is certainly NOT God. HE may well be some advanced life form with knowledge and abilities well beyond our concepts, but HE is not God. Just as to an ant, we are not Gods, just merely something a bit more advanced and beyond their comprehension. In apply the words "He" or "She" you have automatically remove that being from being what can truly be called a "GOD." At least in a Theistic/Deistic manner
@MarkHolgate: The fact that he calls this preaching does not mean I am going to grant him intellectual immunity to misrepresent philosophical worldviews at his own pleasure. If he wants to get on a platform and spew bullsh*t , I and others ARE going to call him on it.
@satori137 sorry. it's certainly fair for you to say 'that's not what i believe.' you, of course will disagree. it's also fair for him to say 'this is what x/y/z really is'. you are free to reject that with integrity.
A yogi or tantric for instance might believe in a god due to some sort of "psychic" faculty that they have developed from their practices. They may not able to prove its existence to others but it doesnt mean they are necessarily delusional or dishonest.
If you have tasted an oranget & you are unable to prove it has a taste to others (who never tasted one) does that neccesarily mean it hasnt a particular taste?
to all christians who post on here. I got news for you. God already planned out,in advance,before you were even born, the 2 options,that you can have about choosing Jesus or not choosing him. he never gave a third option. he never gave you any room or space to act differently. so when you pick Jesus as your saviour,you are merely picking one of the 2 options which were planned out in advance for you. this isnt free will. where is your free will??..it's Gods choices and not yours. you just pick
@DiligentDaoist Glad I'm no longer what most people call a "Christian" I do believe in the teaching of Yeshua. In fact if you look closely and metaphorically you'll notice a lot of pantheism in his teaching. Sadly his spiritual concepts were...are to advanced for that vast majority of his followers and between the time of his death and the rise of Constantine, most of those teaching were perverted and blended with paganism to control the ignorant masses
@coyoteself thanks for your reply. I am similar to you. I come from a christian background,raised by 2 bible thumping fundalmentalist evangelical parents. I attended church from the time I was an infant to about age 19. I left the church at 19 and I haven't been back since. I have been doing my own reasoning and my own thinking for my ownself,which is one of the most precious gifts god ever gave to man. the ability to think and use reasoning and logic to get to know him better.
@DiligentDaoist I jumped ship when I was 15 and drifted towards paganism, and then eventually to Buddhism and then back to Christianity with a LOT clearer mind. Even tho I'm still primarily eastern in my spirituality, I can see what Yeshua (Jesus) was trying to teach. No, I'm not saying that he was teaching Buddhism, but I do think that he came to many of the same conclusions as the Buddha did. Conclusions that were just too esoteric for his disciples to comprehend at the time
@coyoteself ...I agree with you, 100% about the element of paganism being part of the church, it's a well known fact, and yes alot of his teachings have been perverted ever since. have you ever read "Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine. It's a really excellent book and when he wrote it, he was mentally way ahead of his time for his way of thinking, it's amazing the mind he had. I highly suggest it if you haven't read it yet.
to all christians who are commenting on here...news for you. You say you have a choice. You say you have free will to choose Jesus or to not choose Jesus. ....sorry to tell you this, but this concept is totally and completely wrong. You do not have a choice and you do not have free will either. let me explain why. If God is omnicient and all knowing, then he already planned out all possible choices that you will make and all penalties and all possible actions that could be taken by you
1. it is one thing to know events, and yet another to act on that knowledge. the hebrew of Exodus 2:23-24 makes this very clear. So no, your omniscience argument is still born
2. God's reign means He affects the world that my volition cannot compete with. he is ultimately in charge. It doesn't mean I have NO volition. It means i have limited effect outside of his will
3. adding an element of fixedness does not make it a non-choice.
@MarkHolgate ...if your driving down the highway,and the highway, banks sharply to the left by design, then i can safely assume at about 90% that you are going to turn to the left...now, you have some more choices, you can continue going straight,maybe a wall is in front of you,or there is a cliff, or you can stop where you are, or you can turn around and go back..but your volition,if you want to call it that is limited,and you will suffer the consequences from not following to the left
@DiligentDaoist since when, in the judaeo christian story, have we stayed on the road? seriously? in your previous analogy most of us simply run off the embankment and end in a ditch, then blithely say 'what happened?'. this is the entire message of the prophets, including Jesus. the entire story of the scriptures is god's salvation for humankind, pulling them up out of the 'the ditch." Even then God chose not to force His Kingship upon us, leaving the choice(s) up to us.
@MarkHolgate ...so, sure,you can try and use your volition, maybe it will come with some kind of reaction or physical penalty of some sort if you dont follow the highway and turn left as the highway is designed, and if you try to use your volition in a way that goes against the creators foreplanned design and predetermined course, then you shall get your immediate results whatever those results may be..so it is not your volition in the end. there is no volition.volition comes with penalties.
all choices come with consequences, yes, but they do not immediately come to fruition. God doesn't immediately reach down and smack us about the head every time we do something wrong. If what you suggest was true there would be no sin, and no evil, because of the immediate consequences. But God gives us a generous period of grace in the hope that we will turn around. See luke 13:6-8.
@MarkHolgate ...they don't immediately come to fruition??..ok, hold a match over an open gas can and see how long it takes for an explosion to occur..it will be immediate,hold your finger over an open flame,your arm will jerk back instantly, try running a red light at a busy intersection and see how long it takes to collide with another car,soon, I bet !..put a gun up to your head and pull the trigger,bet the bullet strikes you instantly...the consequences do happen immediately everytime.
i shall use small words. god is patient and kind, rich in mercy and grace. so yes, he holds back his judgement.
look at your examples. they merely show physical consequences. they do not apply to volitional action. they do not apply to God! God is Sovereign. He made, and he can unmake. He is Lord. He can respond however he wants to. he can choose any response to your actions. you cannot capture the capacities of god's will in a simple mechanist way.
@MarkHolgate ..ok to make things clear, the term free will communicates a sense of ultimate or absolute freedom, whereas volition simply implies the power of choice. For example, a prisoner locked in a 10x10 prison cell would not be considered free, but could still exercise the choice to either lay down, sit, or stand, etc. The individual has certainly lost a large portion of his freedom, but he has not been stripped of his volition. you can only use volition related to how much freedom exists
@DiligentDaoist i've tried to debate you with respect, i apologise for the snipe at you about small words. you however, have failed to listen, and failed to acknowledge many of the points i have made. You seem to only be interested in your own point of view. Ultimately that is ignorance, regardless of how much you know. And i'm sorry, God is not going to vanish of change in a puff of your logic. Peace to you.
@MarkHolgate ....I have not said anything at all disrespectful to you at all. and I have taken no snipes or potshots at you such as you did at me. I did not ask what your religious leanings are,..i assume you are a christian, as you quote the bible many many times. I have a bible also, I do not read it or use it to debate with. I try not to use it for debating. I prefer not to use the bible for bible debates. christians always do though,otherwise they can't have an intelligent debate at all
@DiligentDaoist but the problem is, the Book is the foundation point for our knowledge of God, and His revelation of His person to us. throw it out, and what's the point? you've thrown out the material you need for understanding. it is the scientist throwing out the data and claiming that their analysis is purer without it.
you can not use it. but you shouldn't disregard or disparage those that do use it. How dare you suggest i am pulling stuff out at random, and 'twisting it' (your words)
@MarkHolgate ....Since when has the bible ever been the foundation point for our knowledge of God??...the bible is a man made and man written book. it is the product of men. Mark, this universe and this planet operate on scientific physical laws whether or not you like it or not, this universe doesn't operate or function on biblical laws or principles. This universe operates on a very logical system, and that system was designed by God himself. the bible has no bearing on the operation of it.
@MarkHolgate even the science in the bible is completely totally wrong. if we depended on the bible to learn our science and physics,our society would still be in prehistoric medevial dark ages today, thank goodness learned men with education and intelligence found out our planet isn't flat,that it doesn't have corners, that it isn't fixed in place and that the sun doesn't revolve around the earth. can you imagine what type of society we would have if we didn't find out these things??..scary!
@dendog007 ...thanks for your reply.A lso I have a couple of great recommended books for you to also read with an open mind as well...try reading " Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine and " Reason, The Only Oracle of Man" by Ethan Allen. Read these with an open mind if your not afraid of reading and not afraid of having your faith challenged. You think I have never been to church before??..you think I have never ever read the bible before???..you don't think I have tried organized religion before??
@dendog007 ...thanks for your reply, but, as for christianity and organized religion goes BEEN THERE DONE THAT!...already traveled that road for about 20 years.I had the bible crammed and rammed down my throat and spoon fed to me from the time when I was age 3, whether or not I wanted it or not, by 2 fire and brimstone hell preaching bible thumping fundalmentalist pentecostal parents. I was heavily heavily indoctrinated into the church. more than you will ever know. what do you know about me?
@MarkHolgate ,the bible is morally wrong and scientifically wrong. stone people to death for working on sundays?? stone to death disobedient children??...it's ok for slave owners to beat their slaves...and slavery is ok to begin with??, when God was trying to rescue his chosen people because they were slaves...ironic don't you think?? doesn't make much sense. Women cover their heads with scarves, don't speak during worship and the husband will teach the wife all about God. is this your god ???
@MarkHolgate There is a word of God, There is a revelation.The word of God is the creation which we behold all around us,and it is in this word,which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, It is an ever existing original word which every man can read. It cannot be forged,it cannot be lost. it cannot be translated or edited and it cannot be supressed and it does not depend upon the will of man whether it shall be published or not. it publishes itself all over the earth
The problem with religion (especially the Abrahamic religions) is that they try to humanize God too much.They give him name Yahweh/Allah/Elohim, home heaven, son Jesus, and personality benevolent and merciful.We Deist look at the universe in a more rational manner, we see this powerful entity as the first cause of the universe.We don't need to depend on divine powers as we live. We were given the ability to reason and free will, therefore no need for this Deity to intervene in our affairs.
thedeadlyflow 6 days ago
Well Driscoll, why would an all-powerful creator (which I do believe in) would be constantly involved with the affairs of a single on a single planet? Would I be overly obsessed with what's happening with a group of plankton living deep in the Antarctic Ocean? No. We are inherently insignificant to the rest of the universe. People need to stop acting like we are the center of it.
xKatz90 1 week ago
Gosh. I think the deists are almost as zealous at the atheists. Maybe, just maybe.
For those of you who are verbally impaired, he is describing deism in easily accessible Christian terms. You may not like the way he characterizes deism, because its not FOR YOU. Morons. His message is still accurate in the best of my judgment, its just not put in words FOR YOU.
Regardless, still spam the comments with your stupidity. Most people are used to it by now. They just say hey, its the internet.
v01741r31 1 week ago
retarded analysis.....
Daemonikat1 2 weeks ago
So pastor you would rather have a God that stuck around and commanded moses to slaughter hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children? Nah.....its just not universal. Deism is..Nature proves it.
skunksnag 2 weeks ago
The description Mark gave of the deist god is actually more like the christian god!! Your on your own, your prayers aren't answered, god doesn't care about you, he could give two shits. Because that is exactly what abused children think about the christian god when they are getting rapped by a priest over and over again and the priest just gets moved to another parish while the child is left with the scars for life!!!!!!!!!
oldno74 1 month ago 2
Just another uniformed person wanting to talk about things that he only partially knows anything about. Makes me sorry I bothered to watch.
willisdc2 2 months ago 5
Have you thought about doing actual research on Deism? What you said is only the half truth. We don't believe in a personal "god" because "god" fixed the world to run on a scientific set of principles so we could be self-sufficient. I personally believe that whoever or whatever "god" is, he is just watching us like a television set. I would also like to add that when I was Christian, It made me hate myself. I was closest to being suicidal when I was Christian. Now I have respect for myself.
Blexican2007 2 months ago 2
Christianity: There Is No Hero Coming
TBlenx1995 2 months ago 2
Made sick and commanded to be well.
JohnnieNaked 2 months ago
What an ignorant S O B : As I understand Deism God does not abandon us. he empowers us to make the right choices. I have lost respect for the Christians because they perpetuate their hellfire and savior myths to control and manipulate the masses.
despotzapper 3 months ago
I'm a Deist, and the thing is we don't need a so-called 'Hero' or 'Saviour' because we don't have a fallen world or eternal torture we need to be saved from.
I respect Christainity as I do all beliefs. I'm not going to bash it like many others are. But it is admittedly unfair to assume all deists will end up hopeless with despair when faced with tough situations. I personally find Christianity and some of its doctrines worthy of more despair.
HerGlassBones94 3 months ago
If i had a dollar for every correct assumption he makes in this video..... I would have 1 dollar. He got the definition correct, and it goes very VERY far downhill from there
Master0fPuppets231 3 months ago
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, John Adams and many of the Founding Fathers were Deists. They all become great American heroes and wrote the Constitution without the belief of a personal god. It's either coincidence or Deism if a better option....
barbiquearea 3 months ago
Wow...this sounds like people should take some fuckin' responsibility for their life, and not rely on a book or priest and turn to their friends when things get bad. Deists are not suicidal. The actual progression to life is such that it will blow your fucking mind to think about it.
deistforever2001 4 months ago
@deistforever2001
Well aren't you a ball of sunshine...I think you proved Mark's point.
Jerkwad152 4 months ago
@Jerkwad152 I can't say that I fully catch your drift. One of the main points of deism is that we realize that we can't know the unknowable. The Christian theodicy gives a narrow view of the world when the world when the world is far more complex that what this book proposes. Why do people need a guarantee for an afterlife? We are the only species that knows life is finite and so we reach out and make up comfort stories, and sadly the Christian stories are terrifying.
deistforever2001 4 months ago
@deistforever2001 Humanity doesn't need a savior. We have the resources and knowledge to care for the entire species but we don't act on it. I really hope that you will look into deism with an open mind. That is one of the main problems that I have with religion as a whole is that it has built in self-defense mechanisms. If God were all powerful, why would he need to threated people into obedience and unquestioning faith? I like your style. I just wish you would give something else a try.
deistforever2001 4 months ago
The Architect is not like a "father", so the abandonment association is ridiculous. What we propose is that God created this Universe, and that for him to cause miracles would be to break HIS OWN natural laws that he put into place. I believe that it is possible that God is looking down and seeing what his creation is doing, but this cannot be deduced from logic. Only a primary starter can be deduced from logic. We don't need the "faith" you have when we have reason.
NewVinland 4 months ago
Stop dressing like your 17. You're not. It doesn't make you look hip, or down, or cool; It just makes you look creepy.
We Deist might not have had any "prophets" but we have Ben Franklin.
zperra 4 months ago
a minister with daddy issues, hmmmmm
sphinxpress 4 months ago
Lol I wish I could see this guy in a debate with George Carlin...
pjunior06 4 months ago 2
It's enough that He gave you a brain to think to make you feel blessed. You've got to think for yourself, that's what your brain is for. You don't live your life according to what your pastors dictate you. Your future depends on what you're doing today. If the future has been drawn out, then there's no point in living. :]
jonweisberg01 4 months ago
I'm a deist, but for me God didn't abandon me. Actually, He love me so much He gave me life and the opportunity how to be alive. Your description of "my" God is absurd. He's a supreme being and is the reason you're breathing. How can you call him incompetent and just left this fucked up place?
jonweisberg01 4 months ago
He is kind of unfairly strawmaning Deism.
Skepticktok 4 months ago
I do not need the crutch that this man offers, I have my own spirit, mind, and Reason to get me through life. And God willing that is enough for me.
ishikawaml 4 months ago
I'm just sick and tired of being sick and tired of people who are just so arrogant to actually believe that their belief or unbelief is the truth the light and way and anyone who thinks differently(the majority) is some blind sheep or misguided soul. I can't wait for the day when people can believe in whatever the fuck they want freely. My motto is as long as I have nothing to do with it your belief is fine by me and I will always defend your right to have it.
agent9149 4 months ago
Well,there's no hero coming for Theism either,but at least Deists are grown up enough to admit that.
knucks360 5 months ago 23
@knucks360 The "Hero" has already came as Phrophet/ Preist/ and King who reigns and gives everlasting life as well as His Glory and Personhood to those who believe and obey Him. Everlasting life that is peace. a new heaven. a new earth, a life that extends beyond time and human reality.. Its Amazing Its Glorious and Matchless this hope and confidence is available right now, for you too,, Its real It will carry you through all circumstances, experiences and emotions, and even death !!!
JLITE08 3 months ago
@JLITE08 Who is the hero? Superman? That would be awesome!! : D
knucks360 3 months ago
@knucks360 Jesus Christ
JLITE08 3 months ago
This guy doesnt know what deism or is simply lying to make his buck.
hibeango 5 months ago
I guess this explains why we always hear about those damn deists killing themselves. I get tired of the hearing that night after night on the news, fucking deists.
darkling9109 5 months ago
Wow, this guy has 'abandonment issues'...is he saying that all Deists suffer from depression, seek self-medication and eventually will commit suicide? Hmmm, well for the past 40 years...I haven't done any of those things or suffered from any of those aforementioned conditions, and I'm a Deist. :) Misinformation, much? :D <3
mdlittle5466 6 months ago
Don't you twist Mark's words to suit your own indignant trolling.
He didn't say that you will automatically kill yourself if you're a deist. He said, statistically, that you've got a better chance of it. Christians, no matter the denomination, on average have longer lifespans. Look it up.
Jerkwad152 6 months ago
I'm a deist, and I have no plans of committing suicide. I find it very rude of him to say such a thing, especially when it is so clear that he has no idea what he's talking about. It looks like he is mocking deism, and he's looking for someone to laugh at his jokes, instead of making fair arguments of his opinions.
lindaterese33 6 months ago
@lindaterese33 I drew the same conclusions...pity the pastor never gave critical thinking a sincere effort. Greetings, Fellow Deist. :D <3 Well met! X)
mdlittle5466 6 months ago
I love the deist god. I don't have worry about him or her getting pissed about me watching porn and/or drinking cold beers.
connerjd 6 months ago
@connerjd This comment is evidence of why people don't want to believe in the true living God. They love their sin and don't want to obey God. Period.
MasterOranda 6 months ago
@MasterOranda Your comment is proof that you are a narrow-minded blind following idiot who believes anything that authority tells them.
connerjd 6 months ago
I call troll on this one!
RealityIsFatality 6 months ago
You know, people like this is why I avoid religion. I'm aware that Deism is not a religion but a viewpoint. But this guy has got it all wrong. "There is a happiness in Deism, when rightly understood, that is not to be found in any other system of religion. All other systems have something in them that either shock our reason, or are repugnant to it, and man, if he thinks at all, must stifle his reason in order to force himself to believe them." - Thomas Paine. Enough said.
BTBAM27 6 months ago
Im gonna assume this is a christian? lol
BTBAM27 6 months ago
This dolt had no idea what he is talking about. Beside I'll take my logic and reason of Deism over fairy tales of Christianity anyday.
Celtrebel 7 months ago
Liked it up 'til the conclusion. Granted, it is a hard idea to stomach, but some people are capable of handling the idea that they are "on their own" in life, and don't slip into depression, etc. at the thought of this. To me it is a bit of a disingenuous, biased summary. Good presentation, though.
mknomad5 7 months ago
LOL Deism leads to suicide? ROFL this guy is either legally insane or he's seriously fucking with us!
JasonHouston77 7 months ago
Is this guy ignorant to what Deism is or is he just telling outright lies? I find it hard to believe that he's that ignorant... some of that had to be intentional.
JasonHouston77 7 months ago
You left out one important part of Deism....."Reason" Deist believe that God gave us the intelligence and all the tools needed to lead a productive and blessed life, and we thank him for that. We don't need to continually grovel and beg Him to give us things. Most importantly we are not afraid of Him, especially not afraid that He created us imperfect and then plans on sending us to eternal punishment for being what He created.....doesn't make sense, never did, and that is why I am a Deist
bigguy300golf 7 months ago
@0:25 It's a lot of work? Hard work? It should be infinitely easier than an eye blink for an all powerful supreme being. A tiny shred of compelling evidence would be a nice place to start.
Ahh...so this would require --ACTUAL-- morality, not just you grudging compliance to avoid punishment or attain rewards...
OptimisticCynic715 7 months ago
is there a factory that makes these people somewhere ?,canwe close it ?.
TVCSD 8 months ago
This man did NO research on deism other then, probably, looking it up on wikipedia. In his like second sentence he made claim to sin. Deists don't really believe in sin. This man is a ass.
musicfreak769 8 months ago
Why cant good people be their own saviors...Oh thats right, because then churches and speakers like yourself would go out of business.
fatface5454 8 months ago
Sorry folks, but it seems that he's saying that belief in gods is the only coping skill that works. Not true. Dealing with depression can come in a variety of ways, and if you're not able to believe in invisible gods, you can find other ways to live.
drumrnva 8 months ago
Sorry typo. Hell... not he'll. Lol my internet corrects words for me.
Devidedistand 9 months ago
Lmao does this guy end all of his sermons with "whats the result? depression... self medication... suicide..." lol
Devidedistand 9 months ago
@Devidedistand Exactly, he wants you to believe all none-jesus-cult-christians long for suicide. The guy is a fraud & a utter joke.
Chibithy 8 months ago
Is the full sermon somewhere?
kjbrimm 9 months ago
this is total bullshit...this dudes a fucking moron lmao. worst/cynical explanation of deism ive ever heard
skatenfilm66 9 months ago
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TheDakota671 9 months ago
Uggghhh. He is so completely dependent on someone saving him that he has to attack those who choose to save themselves.
drunkenmermaid00 9 months ago
@drunkenmermaid00
The point is that you can't save yourself. You can't get yourself into Heaven, only Hell.
Jerkwad152 9 months ago
@Jerkwad152
Matt 13:49-50 says we don't send ourselves to he'll. Jesus is personally responsible for sending us to he'll.
Devidedistand 9 months ago
@Devidedistand
You're taking that out of context. He's talking about the second coming.
Do you want a bunch of unrepentant sinners in Heaven?
Jerkwad152 8 months ago
This is a typical attack on deism from bible nuts. The main belief of deism is the creator (if you want to call it that) gave us reason, and intelligence. If something really did create the universe, I think it has enough to worry about then what I or someone else does. This is a misrepresentation of deism, do not listen to this hack.
MGiants82 10 months ago
All this guy did was demonized Deism. You put up your arms and made that facial expression. And what was with that ending? "Depression, medication, suicide." Yes. Existence is tough. What we do is act like MEN and get through it. Maybe I should go and molest some children in a confessional. Would that be more acceptable to you?
CertifiedGooner729 10 months ago
I hate when people suggest that Deists think "God created us and then left" - as if WE believe in THEIR (the Christian/Jewish/Muslim) version of God. A better definition (at least for myself) would be that 1) we believe in "nature's God" - kind of like 'pantheism', and 2) Our 'God' does not intervene in the daily lives of people, except for what nature brings. I.E. 'God' didn't send the earthquake to Japan nor did 'he' speak to anyone who happened to be taking a shower alone this morning.
RileyE104 10 months ago
wow...this guy clearly did NOT do his research. He makes Deists out to be some sort of hopeless species of man....
tracytubevideos 10 months ago
@tracytubevideos : Agreed. This guy is nothing more than a typical organized religion cheerleader. They love to make people think that they need religion (especially THEIR religion) in order to be in touch with 'God', which is completely untrue.
RileyE104 10 months ago
what a complete misrepresentation of deism.
ambush9090 10 months ago
unfortunately google doesn't translate bullshit.....guess I will never know what he was all on about..
nighrage 10 months ago
Does location have to do with religious belief?
brillohead89 11 months ago
Can you refute these beliefs with anything other than the bible? I also love how this guys audience is Christian. I'm deist and this guys IGNORANT attack on deism is a great display of his lack of evidence.
brillohead89 11 months ago
@brillohead89 well over half of that audience isnt Christian.. its seattle after all.
rosswilson2010 11 months ago
What is most likely is that there is a Unifed Field of Intelligent Consciousness also called the Net - it's the matrix that our multiverse exists in throughout time and space. It has been proposed that the 72 "fallen" angels are beings that organize under the Unifed Field and then commence to create their own experiment of existence by designing and maintaining the astral and dense 'human' realms that exist below a) The Unified Field b) the 72/3 Fallen Angels or 72 Names of God c) The Astral
flowecaps 1 year ago
I was raised a catholic before turning to Deism before eventually realizing theres nothing to prove either so I went full Atheist in that Science can explain everything and what it cannot explain does not mean a God is automatically the answer to... it just means we dont know yet.
Sevenfold120 1 year ago
Uh, if the only laws the creator creates are the laws of nature, how can there be sin?
Krapenhoeffer 1 year ago 11
@Krapenhoeffer In a deist sense, sin is simply the term given to things we know are bad (ie killing). Also, it really depends from deist to deist if they believe in sin. It isn't like Christianity where there is a certain set of rules that each person abides by. Rather, people take a look at the world and decide for themselves.
SpecTechHD 1 month ago
Ok. I clicked expecting something more. This guy just spit out the first thing that came to mind. Deists don't believe the Creator actively participates in human affairs - that is not the same as abandonment. It's an observer! Some modern Deists believe the Creator transcents human terms like personal/impersonal. It's people like this (ignorant of other systems) that me glad I switched!
HallowsEve2010 1 year ago
*facepalm*
vaguelyhumanoid 1 year ago
@williamdecypher
Sad way to argue a point.
metahelix 1 year ago
I use to attend that church and loved pastor Mark's sermons, but listening to this i can see how he can pass a really bastardized explanation of Deism to the masses and they eat it right up. Your idea of a god that created and abandoned the world is based solely on principals of Christianity. This is because of how the bible portrays a God. If you pray to a Deistic God to be healed and then to a Christian god for the same reason do you think the results would be different?
metahelix 1 year ago
Wow what a load of shit. I am a deist I am not depressed and I'm not self medicated and I don't want to kill myself
smitz001 1 year ago
I don't want the God from the bible to interfere with my life! I'd be committing horrible deeds like sacrificing my children (Jephthah, Abraham), and I'd be schizophrenic. Not a happy life.
GuitarMannnnnn 1 year ago
I'm born to a Muslim father and a Christian mother. In 2003, I almost got jailed for drugs. One day in the holding cell, lunch was served with yogurt, I had one spoonful and then the yogurt fell on the floor and formed a heart shape. Instead of serving a 5 year jail term, I was released with 1 year probation. From that day, I started seeing heart shapes everywhere I look. In 2005, I was blessed with a baby girl born with a birth mark on her forehead..a heart shape.
Deism is God, God is Love.
wissamhassan 1 year ago
when life gets hard, deists get depressed.self medicated...then suicide???? =/ wow. that's a low budget observation. there's other solutions to lifes problems besides Jesus.
PliableGreyness 1 year ago
@PliableGreyness
Its funny how no pastors ever mention that some of the most brilliant people in history were Deists. Furthermore who do you think had the biggest parts to play in the scientific discovery of our world and all the inventions of the 21 century, sure as hell not Christians.
metahelix 1 year ago
@metahelix i was pretty sure that lots of early scientists were christians like galileo and newton. right? but regardless, it doesn't matter what they believe. I imagine there are brilliant scientists who are Christian, Muslim, Atheist and whatever else... none of that matters. Everyone has their bias in what they promote. Deists don't go around telling who was a Christian to support their cause. They find the deists and make it sound good.
PliableGreyness 1 year ago
@PliableGreyness "it doesn't matter what they believe. I imagine there are brilliant scientists who are Christian, Muslim, Atheist and whatever else... none of that matters."
It doesn't matter *if* they actually don't being superstitious nonsense with them to the office. And if they don't, it's hard to claim that they actually are theists. If you believe in a god that meddles with nature at random and in response to people's prayers and masturbation you have no reason to believe in natural law.
Gnomefro 10 months ago
@PliableGreyness And that is fairly important. The enterprise of science is simply useless unless you are of the opinion that nature can be predicted. Initial support for this belief follows directly from sensory experience, and is supported through investigation, but it is contradicted by belief in supernature of all kinds. To call this a "bias" is a bit silly, unless you're talking about a bias towards demonstrable phenomena vs a bias towards believing unsupported bullshit for no reason.
Gnomefro 10 months ago
@metahelix in my opinion, the thing that gives any one's beliefs substance, whether christian, deist, atheist, hindu or whatever, is what is promoted by their life. who gives what they believe. if it promotes bad shit, it's condemnable. If it promotes good and well being,... great. I want my life and my actions to be of substance, not what the founders of deism believed and did. Though I relate most to deism, most christian lives are more appealing as far as compassion and goodness are concerned
PliableGreyness 1 year ago
@PliableGreyness I can see your point but if you look at history a different picture emerges, look how many people died and are still dying and killing in the name of their particular god, you might find religious people to have good intentions individually and their calling might sound like a peaceful loving existence, but historically as a whole it is a bloody and violent existence. People are fully capable of living happy loving lives without the framework of a personal god.
metahelix 1 year ago
emmm WOW he is angry! these are the people that make me question religion! so much hate in his heart
the beauty in deism is that im not condemned because im not following gods word from a book, just left to believe in him and follow my heart as i KNOW that god is in my heart
how will little old me know for sure which is the correct religion to follow
there is nothing that you will say that someone of a different religion has interpreted to me according to their chosen scriptures.
pink69princess 1 year ago
Comment removed
pink69princess 1 year ago
why do most "religions" condemn the "others" for not believing the same.thats just Hate talking.
relax!!, believe in him ,dont be angry !!!!
god hasn't left us ! he still is present in my heart ! He still here WHAT are you talking about ???
we are here to make progress improve ourselves be better LOVE live with good morals and give what you can to your fellow men , help love support faith etc
what u have shown me is only hate so BYEEEEEEE !
pink69princess 1 year ago
This guy has no clue at all , he is just looking for donations .
ThomasPain1 1 year ago
@ThomasPain1
No lol he's actually pretty spot on. Im not saying that he doesn't have an agenda with his message (this much is obvious) but he's pretty accurate in his interpretation (feel free to look it up). I've noticed that this pastor tends to get beat up a bit by unfavorable comments. I do find it funny tho, that the majority of his critics are wise in their own eyes but uninformed and spiritually ignorant overall.
dope1 1 year ago
This is the stupidest comment on Deism I have ever heard. I was a Christian but fortunately, thanks to God and Its gift of reason left this ...t.
This idiot knows nothing about Deism, maybe he had read some definitions of others Christians about Deism... Oh Nature`s God, my loved Creator, when listening to this man I completely understand why you left your work...
karlawachsmann 1 year ago
What a hypocrite. Why was this guy even watching a movie called "The Devil's Advocate"?
incomprehensible14 1 year ago
I'm a deist and the way you make it seem like is like Deist are people who are miserable, and pessimistic. It's not that Deist look at the bad in life. It's just that we don't think that God answers too people prayers, and yes he left the earth a lone, and you can see that in the condition that the earth is in right now for the proof.
thedeadlyflow 1 year ago
That's why I'm not down with religion because the way they view they're beliefs very close minded, and don't think with logic especially Christians. Because if we were in a world without religion this world wouldn't nearly as bad as it is now. Because religion is really just based on power like every corrupted thing on this earth is(though it was originally meant to better people), but like companies they're going to be corrupted people.
thedeadlyflow 1 year ago
@thedeadlyflow **Yup, the earth is corrupted, and has been since nearly the beginning. That's the thing with "free will." As a Christian myself, I find it interesting that so many non-Christians rush to judge us as all so closed-minded. I'm firm in my beliefs, yes, but I honor the fact that you have the choice to believe in what you do as well. My beliefs are these: Love Jesus, and love my neighbor, no matter what he or she believes, or does. "NoReligion" is your religion!
parus55 1 year ago
@parus55 funny part is with Christians a lot of you guys (not saying you) think that Jesus is God and most Christians tend to Ridicule people if they don't follow their beliefs and try to make them look inferior and think that their perfect. I'm a Deist bro and my belief is that God made the earth and universe,but left it alone. But my Philosophy is that either God is testing us or isn't to concerned.
thedeadlyflow 1 year ago
@thedeadlyflow
I guess this is the biggest part of some of Deist's belief i dont get. Why do you feel God left? What would you have God do if you could interact? Would you pray for rain? What if your neighbor is praying for sun. Would you be asked to heal ? What if your government is producing biological deceases to make you sick on purpose for their means?. My examples may not be the best or well thought out but how much intervention could you expect from a deity that governs 6.8 billion?
metahelix 1 year ago
@metahelix I could see where your coming from bro, but if God doesn' t leave the Earth alone then why is it there is so much misery and chaos on this earth then? Like I said before if that's not the case then that makes God an enabler. Besides as far as beliefs go I'm like half Deist half Agnostic.
thedeadlyflow 1 year ago
@thedeadlyflow Im glad you asked :), This is my personal thought. If you are familiar at all with basic biology, physics and chemistry you can see that everything on this planet functions on the same principals. The strongest animals breed and reproduce which ensures their survival, all animals use resources available to them to survive, humans also function by the same principals but at a more complex level. Lion hunts an antelope(resource for survival), we go to war over oil.
metahelix 1 year ago
@parus55 Yeah you know that just makes God an enabler by allowing people to suffer because others want to be despicable.If you allow someone to beat the shit out of your friend that would make you an enabler if you didn't attempt to do anything about it.
thedeadlyflow 1 year ago
@thedeadlyflow
Spot ON. :)
metahelix 1 year ago
@parus55 Haha and I'm a very open minded person I don't care if you're christian,Muslim,Jewish,Hindu,Buddhist,atheist,agnostic,pantheist,Deist,anti-theist etc. it's just how you treat people. Because trust me I have friends in those list of religions/beliefs and my mother and her family christian adventist to be exact I'm not close minded I'm giving you my perception of Christians.
thedeadlyflow 1 year ago
@parus55
I think the answer to that question is the depth of each persons(Christian,Deist, etc..) knowledge of the subject. I have noticed the most hardcore and angriest Christians are those that really do not know the book and religion they are proclaiming, so i to have all the tolerance for different faiths since mine is just that, as long as you use your god given mind to discover and seek him through meditation(thinking deeply).
metahelix 1 year ago
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thedeadlyflow 1 year ago
Could one be a Deist and still think that there is a possibility of a good afterlife?
thestupidgenius55 1 year ago
@thestupidgenius55 - Sure. I've thought of that often. The great thing about Deism is that you can believe whatever you want to about God. There is no religious dogma or doctrine you have to adhere to. Then again, there is no evidence in support of that belief. You'd be taking a leap of faith.
boxingaddict25 1 year ago
@thestupidgenius55
Absolutely, being a Deist is unlike subscribing to an "revealed" belief such as Christianity or Judaism. Deists do not follow any revealed school of thought. Their faith in a creator is the life we have,as in the complexity and vastness of our universe through which we can see there had to be a divine architect. If you learn not to put everything in terms of Christianity Ex. notion of heaven and hell, you will be able to open your mind to the true God. :)
metahelix 1 year ago
Nice feedback everyone, but can you please elaborate on why you think he is ignorant? I would really appreciate a good answer, thx
MrCharrrles 1 year ago
@MrCharrrles Well, for one thing he puts all deists in the world under one assumption but I did a little research and there are many various aspects of deism. I personally don't feel so much abandoned as blessed with a good planet and a free country as well as being able to think freely for myself and [as I said in my last comment] there is possibily an afterlife [although no 100% guarantee].
thestupidgenius55 1 year ago
@MrCharrrles
I met him before and he is a smart man, i would not say he is ignorant.
metahelix 1 year ago
How can someone be so wilfully ignorant?
stevehayes13 1 year ago
I don't think this brainiac could find his own ass with both hands. He's just another self proclaimed biblical intellectual who has a soap box for his opinions. And people wonder why I feel Christianity is nothing more than an effort to control the minds of men. Always be skeptical of ANYONE who claims to have all of the answers. Driscoll, you're a fraud.
Mudflappus 1 year ago
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Mudflappus 1 year ago
is this guy some kind of comedian? because he sure made me laugh. thinking about it now, though, i'm rather sad for him.
horatiuroman 1 year ago
"he" hmmmmm
indyminn 1 year ago
@williamdecypher Someone get this guy a book to read, or at least give him access to a search engine. :) Deists don't give him sweet cash, that can be the reason he is against them.
vmorgun 1 year ago
Not specific to this world view, but just because you Don't like something, DOES NOT MAKE IT NOT REAL!
Just because you don't like the fact your god does not exist christians does not mean that he does. So stop trying to use that to prove people wrong. It doesn't work.
kungfukats 1 year ago
This guy knows nothing at all about Deism , unlike this guy Deism is not trying too sell anything .
You believe in God and thats it , or like this raving fool you believe in fairytales like demons angels and worst off all prophets .
ThomasPain1 1 year ago
This guy is a hot mess of misinformation. Even world views that don't have anything to do with Christianity he can't depict without contextualizing them within the confines of Christian mythology; "..We sinned and rebelled and God left.."?? Where does he get such nonsense?
stefatrop 1 year ago
Oh, he's completely misunderstood deism. What a loser.
RadicalWhig 1 year ago
Oh dear you can have so much fun with these people in a Q&A. Two quotes come to mind, Faith, belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge. The latter is True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing, that's why I love Deism, we start from here then expand on facts, people like this fool in the video start from knowing everything yet can prove absolute zero.
khasseki 1 year ago
Sir, you are ignorant of what deism is. God is everywhere, GOD just doesn't interfere because he wants us to make our own choices and control our own destiny. God wants us to help ourselves.
metallica5044 1 year ago
@metallica5044 I think you mean God wants us to help others, so either you are selfish or your God wants you to be selfish....hmm
Icannottolerateit 1 year ago
Not all forms of non-christianity assume the christian concept of original sin and 6000 year creation.
My favorite is how he ties everything to 'drugs and suicide'.
This guy is a joke.
Mathenaut 1 year ago
Wow. Our Creator sounds so week we he talks about Him (or It as many Deists prefer). I found Deism to be freeing of fear controlling religion. Yes there are problems in this world and we have the ability to change them, ignore them, or add to them. However, why is it I was depressed in Christianity and awed by the greatness of God in Deism? I think this guy needs to get his crystal ball rechecked.
TheMrDeist 1 year ago
This guy is an idiot. I am a deist and he obviously was enlightened with reason to know what he's talking about. If he knew what deism is and understood it he wouldn't be up there preaching. Enough said.
tebowmcguffie 1 year ago
wow. epic fail on knowing wtf he is talking about. GO TO A REAL SCHOOL AND GET AN EDUCATION, GUY.
Oppositum 1 year ago
Your wrong,and you have no clue who,or what a Deist is. Take Thomas Paine's definition,and not Noah Webster's when talking about Deism,or the reality of God.
DeistReality 1 year ago
This guy's understanding of Deism is so far off base, it's not even worth trying to refute. For those of you such as SecretAsianMan00 that are unsure what he is misrepresenting, the answer is-everything.
SilverStreaker 1 year ago
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SilverStreaker 1 year ago
tell me why christianity is in the top 5? what was his point of putting just christianity?
applemacanaaator 1 year ago
He made the world and left??? a little thing called the Holy Spirit was sent down to be with us
mortonpenguin 1 year ago
Depression, self-medication and suicide? Where does this asshole get off saying that Christians are happier than everyone else? It's a crock. Without 'God', most people find understandings on their own, and the means they use to deal with the harshnesses of the world have a basis in reality.
This is more nourishing than a book that delivers false promises and misdirection. I've met plenty of Christians who are depressed. Why? Because neither the world nor God are as the Bible say they are
superharry1 1 year ago
Only religious ignorant fools love to play this kind of theater
SucceedMascot 1 year ago
What UFO does "HE" drive. If God's a "He" than who or WHAT is "HE?" because "HE" is certainly NOT God. HE may well be some advanced life form with knowledge and abilities well beyond our concepts, but HE is not God. Just as to an ant, we are not Gods, just merely something a bit more advanced and beyond their comprehension. In apply the words "He" or "She" you have automatically remove that being from being what can truly be called a "GOD." At least in a Theistic/Deistic manner
coyoteself 1 year ago
This is not an accurate depiction of Deism!
knottsknocks 1 year ago
@MarkHolgate: The fact that he calls this preaching does not mean I am going to grant him intellectual immunity to misrepresent philosophical worldviews at his own pleasure. If he wants to get on a platform and spew bullsh*t , I and others ARE going to call him on it.
satori137 1 year ago
@satori137 sorry. it's certainly fair for you to say 'that's not what i believe.' you, of course will disagree. it's also fair for him to say 'this is what x/y/z really is'. you are free to reject that with integrity.
MarkHolgate 1 year ago
A yogi or tantric for instance might believe in a god due to some sort of "psychic" faculty that they have developed from their practices. They may not able to prove its existence to others but it doesnt mean they are necessarily delusional or dishonest.
If you have tasted an oranget & you are unable to prove it has a taste to others (who never tasted one) does that neccesarily mean it hasnt a particular taste?
Jenfucius 1 year ago
to all christians who post on here. I got news for you. God already planned out,in advance,before you were even born, the 2 options,that you can have about choosing Jesus or not choosing him. he never gave a third option. he never gave you any room or space to act differently. so when you pick Jesus as your saviour,you are merely picking one of the 2 options which were planned out in advance for you. this isnt free will. where is your free will??..it's Gods choices and not yours. you just pick
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@DiligentDaoist Glad I'm no longer what most people call a "Christian" I do believe in the teaching of Yeshua. In fact if you look closely and metaphorically you'll notice a lot of pantheism in his teaching. Sadly his spiritual concepts were...are to advanced for that vast majority of his followers and between the time of his death and the rise of Constantine, most of those teaching were perverted and blended with paganism to control the ignorant masses
coyoteself 1 year ago
@coyoteself thanks for your reply. I am similar to you. I come from a christian background,raised by 2 bible thumping fundalmentalist evangelical parents. I attended church from the time I was an infant to about age 19. I left the church at 19 and I haven't been back since. I have been doing my own reasoning and my own thinking for my ownself,which is one of the most precious gifts god ever gave to man. the ability to think and use reasoning and logic to get to know him better.
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@DiligentDaoist I jumped ship when I was 15 and drifted towards paganism, and then eventually to Buddhism and then back to Christianity with a LOT clearer mind. Even tho I'm still primarily eastern in my spirituality, I can see what Yeshua (Jesus) was trying to teach. No, I'm not saying that he was teaching Buddhism, but I do think that he came to many of the same conclusions as the Buddha did. Conclusions that were just too esoteric for his disciples to comprehend at the time
coyoteself 1 year ago
@coyoteself ...I agree with you, 100% about the element of paganism being part of the church, it's a well known fact, and yes alot of his teachings have been perverted ever since. have you ever read "Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine. It's a really excellent book and when he wrote it, he was mentally way ahead of his time for his way of thinking, it's amazing the mind he had. I highly suggest it if you haven't read it yet.
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@DiligentDaoist I have heard of it but haven't read it yet, I'll look into it tho. Thanks
coyoteself 1 year ago
to all christians who are commenting on here...news for you. You say you have a choice. You say you have free will to choose Jesus or to not choose Jesus. ....sorry to tell you this, but this concept is totally and completely wrong. You do not have a choice and you do not have free will either. let me explain why. If God is omnicient and all knowing, then he already planned out all possible choices that you will make and all penalties and all possible actions that could be taken by you
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@DiligentDaoist
1. it is one thing to know events, and yet another to act on that knowledge. the hebrew of Exodus 2:23-24 makes this very clear. So no, your omniscience argument is still born
2. God's reign means He affects the world that my volition cannot compete with. he is ultimately in charge. It doesn't mean I have NO volition. It means i have limited effect outside of his will
3. adding an element of fixedness does not make it a non-choice.
MarkHolgate 1 year ago
@MarkHolgate ...if your driving down the highway,and the highway, banks sharply to the left by design, then i can safely assume at about 90% that you are going to turn to the left...now, you have some more choices, you can continue going straight,maybe a wall is in front of you,or there is a cliff, or you can stop where you are, or you can turn around and go back..but your volition,if you want to call it that is limited,and you will suffer the consequences from not following to the left
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@DiligentDaoist since when, in the judaeo christian story, have we stayed on the road? seriously? in your previous analogy most of us simply run off the embankment and end in a ditch, then blithely say 'what happened?'. this is the entire message of the prophets, including Jesus. the entire story of the scriptures is god's salvation for humankind, pulling them up out of the 'the ditch." Even then God chose not to force His Kingship upon us, leaving the choice(s) up to us.
Hotandsmartblonde 1 year ago
@Hotandsmartblonde
previous comment actually made by MarkHolgate
MarkHolgate 1 year ago
@MarkHolgate ...so, sure,you can try and use your volition, maybe it will come with some kind of reaction or physical penalty of some sort if you dont follow the highway and turn left as the highway is designed, and if you try to use your volition in a way that goes against the creators foreplanned design and predetermined course, then you shall get your immediate results whatever those results may be..so it is not your volition in the end. there is no volition.volition comes with penalties.
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@DiligentDaoist
all choices come with consequences, yes, but they do not immediately come to fruition. God doesn't immediately reach down and smack us about the head every time we do something wrong. If what you suggest was true there would be no sin, and no evil, because of the immediate consequences. But God gives us a generous period of grace in the hope that we will turn around. See luke 13:6-8.
MarkHolgate 1 year ago
@MarkHolgate ...they don't immediately come to fruition??..ok, hold a match over an open gas can and see how long it takes for an explosion to occur..it will be immediate,hold your finger over an open flame,your arm will jerk back instantly, try running a red light at a busy intersection and see how long it takes to collide with another car,soon, I bet !..put a gun up to your head and pull the trigger,bet the bullet strikes you instantly...the consequences do happen immediately everytime.
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@DiligentDaoist
i shall use small words. god is patient and kind, rich in mercy and grace. so yes, he holds back his judgement.
look at your examples. they merely show physical consequences. they do not apply to volitional action. they do not apply to God! God is Sovereign. He made, and he can unmake. He is Lord. He can respond however he wants to. he can choose any response to your actions. you cannot capture the capacities of god's will in a simple mechanist way.
MarkHolgate 1 year ago
@MarkHolgate ..ok to make things clear, the term free will communicates a sense of ultimate or absolute freedom, whereas volition simply implies the power of choice. For example, a prisoner locked in a 10x10 prison cell would not be considered free, but could still exercise the choice to either lay down, sit, or stand, etc. The individual has certainly lost a large portion of his freedom, but he has not been stripped of his volition. you can only use volition related to how much freedom exists
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@DiligentDaoist i've tried to debate you with respect, i apologise for the snipe at you about small words. you however, have failed to listen, and failed to acknowledge many of the points i have made. You seem to only be interested in your own point of view. Ultimately that is ignorance, regardless of how much you know. And i'm sorry, God is not going to vanish of change in a puff of your logic. Peace to you.
MarkHolgate 1 year ago
@MarkHolgate ....I have not said anything at all disrespectful to you at all. and I have taken no snipes or potshots at you such as you did at me. I did not ask what your religious leanings are,..i assume you are a christian, as you quote the bible many many times. I have a bible also, I do not read it or use it to debate with. I try not to use it for debating. I prefer not to use the bible for bible debates. christians always do though,otherwise they can't have an intelligent debate at all
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@DiligentDaoist but the problem is, the Book is the foundation point for our knowledge of God, and His revelation of His person to us. throw it out, and what's the point? you've thrown out the material you need for understanding. it is the scientist throwing out the data and claiming that their analysis is purer without it.
you can not use it. but you shouldn't disregard or disparage those that do use it. How dare you suggest i am pulling stuff out at random, and 'twisting it' (your words)
MarkHolgate 1 year ago
@MarkHolgate ....Since when has the bible ever been the foundation point for our knowledge of God??...the bible is a man made and man written book. it is the product of men. Mark, this universe and this planet operate on scientific physical laws whether or not you like it or not, this universe doesn't operate or function on biblical laws or principles. This universe operates on a very logical system, and that system was designed by God himself. the bible has no bearing on the operation of it.
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@MarkHolgate even the science in the bible is completely totally wrong. if we depended on the bible to learn our science and physics,our society would still be in prehistoric medevial dark ages today, thank goodness learned men with education and intelligence found out our planet isn't flat,that it doesn't have corners, that it isn't fixed in place and that the sun doesn't revolve around the earth. can you imagine what type of society we would have if we didn't find out these things??..scary!
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@DiligentDaoist The Bible is not a text book of science .....maybe you should read it with a open mind . God bless you and yours
dendog007 1 year ago
@dendog007 ...thanks for your reply.A lso I have a couple of great recommended books for you to also read with an open mind as well...try reading " Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine and " Reason, The Only Oracle of Man" by Ethan Allen. Read these with an open mind if your not afraid of reading and not afraid of having your faith challenged. You think I have never been to church before??..you think I have never ever read the bible before???..you don't think I have tried organized religion before??
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@dendog007 ...thanks for your reply, but, as for christianity and organized religion goes BEEN THERE DONE THAT!...already traveled that road for about 20 years.I had the bible crammed and rammed down my throat and spoon fed to me from the time when I was age 3, whether or not I wanted it or not, by 2 fire and brimstone hell preaching bible thumping fundalmentalist pentecostal parents. I was heavily heavily indoctrinated into the church. more than you will ever know. what do you know about me?
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@MarkHolgate ,the bible is morally wrong and scientifically wrong. stone people to death for working on sundays?? stone to death disobedient children??...it's ok for slave owners to beat their slaves...and slavery is ok to begin with??, when God was trying to rescue his chosen people because they were slaves...ironic don't you think?? doesn't make much sense. Women cover their heads with scarves, don't speak during worship and the husband will teach the wife all about God. is this your god ???
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago
@MarkHolgate There is a word of God, There is a revelation.The word of God is the creation which we behold all around us,and it is in this word,which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, It is an ever existing original word which every man can read. It cannot be forged,it cannot be lost. it cannot be translated or edited and it cannot be supressed and it does not depend upon the will of man whether it shall be published or not. it publishes itself all over the earth
Thomas Paine-1795
DiligentDaoist 1 year ago