People like Stossel are too hopelessly half-wise to realize that you can't have rational socialism-- i.e. whoever takes the king's gold, must to the king's bidding.
As long as government has power, the government DECIDES what to do with it-- NOT the people; that's a difficult concept for most to comprehend, however that's because they likewise lack literacy in politics, i.e you can't get a free lunch AND order a la carte.
Since when does shitting out a brat, entitle one to ANYTHING-- let alone a free education?
These socialist arguments are pure horse-puckey; no one should get a PENNY from the taxpayers for the family that they CHOSE to create; perhaps people should size their brood better according to their pocketbook?
And then they'll have FULL choice, since THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!
Or does that make too much sense?
But here they say 2 wrongs make a right. Guess what? They DON'T! Entitlements are THEFT!
This whole discussion seems to ignore the actual cause of the problem. What exactly do the private schools do differently that make them better than public schools? Instead of just blindly deciding to institute vouchers, why don't we modify public schools to use the superior techniques that private schools use? Then we could have good public schools without the disadvantages that private schools have.
Is the problem systemic? Public schools can't implement a pay grade based on productivity?
saying school vouchers don't provide better education is like saying choosing a restaurant of your choice instead of being appointed to a specific one by the government wouldn't give you a better meal.
Tell me, please. As a taxpayer, how would you feel if your tax dollars went to a private Atheist school vouchers so low-income kids could attend. Atheism is taught at that school, and your tax dollars are going TO THAT SCHOOL to teach children atheism. It’s a private school with a 99% graduation rate, but atheist in nature. Are you okay with that?
@demmmmm1 I might wince a bit, but YES. America is about liberty and liberty is about individual rights. That means that free people are permitted to make their own choices rather than bureaucrats in the Department of Education. Liberty means tolerating the choices of others so that they tolerate yours. Absolutely. It is up to parents to guide children morally. One may put themselves out as an atheist or a Christian, but that alone does not indicate the true moral character of any individual.
If the parents choose that school and it is not forced on them, perfectly acceptable. The question is why is choice a bad thing? You're completely focusing on the wrong issue, the fact that education is a state run monopoly which has failed the our children. Look at Obama, he's sending his kids to private school for a reason because he even he knows public school is shit. Opening up the market place forces schools to teach or else nobody would go there.
@Jebusrulez Remember when the right-wing went nuts over ACORN, even though much of it was bogus? That’s how I feel about religious schools. Don’t want my tax dollars going there.
Question: If the private sector is so concerned about educating our children, why aren’t they? Why haven’t they done some fundraising and paid for school ‘choice’ themselves? Why lean on government since the private sector “knows how to get it done?"
But if the kids are getting a better education than the public schools it still is bad? Sure you may hate religion but having a generation of kids who can't compete in the global economy is a better alternative? You can fund raise to death, which these schools do, but it really hard to compete against an entity that can take property in the form of taxes. It's a joke that school choice doesn't come into college in this country. Actually, why are you defending public schools?
@Jebusrulez If student performance goes up, great. There just isn’t much evidence of that right now. Graduation rates went up for some, but individual performance didn’t really move. And a good sum of students go back to their pub school because they weren’t getting what they needed. And some voucher programs (believe it or not) pay for students who have already been been attending pvt school. Shame.
Having said that, if it’s working, and Jesus isn’t involved, I’m good with it.
So let's say that if the parents where able to keep their property tax money instead of sending it to the government and were able to choose the school of their choice, would that be acceptable? Therefore none of your money would indirectly have to go to religious schools (although I don't see why you care when the education is much better but your choice).
It's logical, it's fair, and it ends up a better deal for the majority.
But most morons can't understand the simple fact that THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH, and so they all come squealing like pigs to the trough when the politicians call "Sooooo-EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!" thinking that they have a RIGHT to it.. then they OINK when they don't like the slop.
It's pretty sad when people need to PROVE the right to keep their own money; sounds like the Soviet Union refusing to let people leave to get cancer-treatments, saying "there's no proof that US treatments are better than ours."
My physics teacher gave us a daily lecture where he went through the material as fast as he could. He would finish in twenty minutes on average each day and spend the rest of the day talking to students. Those who needed help with the material had to wait in line for a good portion of the hour, and once they did get help the teacher would simply show the first step of the problem and dismiss them. About three people in that class knew the material, the rest cheated or failed.
everyone knows that our public schools are terrible yet the 'liberals' want to do the same thing with our healthcare and leave it to the gov't to run.
@HanStanwell The best and most popular health system we have is gov’t run. John McCain’s favorite place to go under the knife is the Naval Hospital at Bethesda. And every senior citizen I know says, “Keep your hands off my Medicare!!”
And what’s so good about a private system that chooses to drop you when you get sick, refuse you due to a pre-existing condition, and add 25% to your premiums so they can pay a CEO $200,000,000.00/yr?
The Voucher program in Milwaukee has failed. Performance is the same or worse.
How did that happen? I thought vouchers were the answer to all our prayers!
Oh, I know - private schools DON’T HAVE BETTER TEACHERS. They have some money, and students of wealth with private tutors for everything under the sun. I know, I taught in both public and private. Private teaching was a cush job compared to public school. It helps when you can hand-pick who you choose to teach.
@demmmmm1 oh you again? haha. according to a study made of the Milwaukee's older and larger voucher program found that 94% of students who stayed in the program throughout high school graduated, versus just 75% of students in Milwaukee's traditional public schools. Funny huh? yet you're accusing it of a failure... 9 out of 10 studies about vouchers find that vouchers improve student outcomes. as a public teacher you're probably using that 1 study for your convenience if you're using a study all.
@Sexisttroll Grad rates slightly increased, but many of the more ‘challenged’ students left the program to go back to pub school - 45-55% said it was because they didn’t get the instructional support they needed. Lack of certain skilled teachers in pvt school weeded out many of the ‘tough’ cases, which also skewed grad rates.
And there was no discernible improvement in academic achievement in math & reading. Both Milwaukee and D.C. programs have failed.
@Sexisttroll You’ve got your facts wrong on the studies. You’ve got it backwards.
Finally, did you know that some of the students receiving voucher money already attended a private school before getting voucher money? They still aren’t really taking the tough students.
AND...I don’t want my tax money going to a religious school - it’s unconstitutional.
@demmmmm1 again yet you're using statistics of students who really never took the scholarship, and the reality is that the major reasons that students opt out of the scholarships are: going into charter school (21.8%), lack of space (18.5%), moved out (15.2%), transportation issues (13.7%), with "lack of academic support" nowhere to be seen. ".I don’t want my tax money going to a religious school - it’s unconstitutional." actually a court in Wisconsin ruled it constitutional...
however the public schools on the other hand can be ruled unconstitutional because it teaches humanism which is a type of sectarianism... so basically if you want to discuss the constitution, your taxes are going to the construction of schools who teach only evolution, which is unconstitutional, rather than giving the money to the parent and the parent choosing a catholic school...
@Sexisttroll Teaching evolution is not unconstitutional. It’s called “science.” Evolution is unrelated to religion.
You’re right that I used just one example, and it’s a rare one. My point is that some public schools kick ass. And there are pvt schools that wouldn’t know what to do with a disabled student to save their soul.
I want ZERO public money going to any religious institution. I like Jefferson’s “wall of separation."
@demmmmm1 actually according to the constitution Article IX, Section 4 "All schools maintained or supported wholly or in part by the public funds shall be forever free from sectarian control or influence." humanism is a form of sectarianism and humanism is being thought in public schools, plus the money for vouchers goes to the parent not the school, which means the private school is not supported directly by public funds but by the parent which is granted the choice...
@demmmmm1 you're kind of thinking is what is ruining the economy the cost of the voucher is way lower (7,500) than the cost per student in public educations (28,000), and they get a better education, plus 80% go to religious schools so not all of them are religious... and your tax money goes to parents not schools... the parents choose the school...
@Sexisttroll 80%?? I didn’t think it was that bad!!! And again...the voucher ends up at the school - that’s what it’s for. Jeez!
Hear about the voucher bill in Pennsylvania? 65% of voucher recipients already attend a pvt or parochial school. Really “serving the poor,” eh?
Tell me something. Why are righties so into this? Isn’t it a “gov’t handout?” Don’t they want to keep gov’t OUT of the private sector? Answer: it serves their base - the wealthy.
@demmmmm1 oh wow so you think religious is only catholic? funny... it even includes Buddhism... the other thing is that the Pennsylvania SB1 increases eligibility for vouchers up to an income of $78,225 for a family of four, however you're using only one program, Milwaukee for example has an eligibility income of $38,587, and once the voucher is receive their income is only allowed to rise till $48,510 and that is for a family of four...
the dc voucher program has an eligibility income of $36,000 oh yeah thats too rich they probably already sending their kids to a private school with that income... I like how you overgeneralize using one example... and I find it hilarious how you liberals abuse that classic saying that us republicans are for the wealthy when in fact democrats control most of the richest districts in the country... and btw republicans donate twice as more as democrats to charity...
@Sexisttroll If it’s the parent’s money, why do they need a voucher? By that same logic, you could say that welfare recipients are not using taxpayer money. It’s THEIR money, so what’s the problem, right?
Lordy. You’ll be far better off if you at least admit the basic truth. Gov’t provides vouchers. Where does gov’t get that money? Taxpayers. Where does the money end up? At the private school. Every single thing gov’t spends money on involves taxpayer money.
@demmmmm1 yes but it depends where the parents spend the money... you're arguing that the vouchers are unconstitutional just because they somehow end up in a private religious school, but the money does not necessarily goes to a religious school it goes to wherever the parents choose...
I heard Wisconsin spends, on average, 10K a year per student.
I have also heard that according to the results of standardized test results, 1 out of 3 8th graders in Wisonsin cannot read proficiently at an 8th grade level.
So what I take from that is after 8 years and $80K the Wisconsin GOVT education system can't teach a kid to read.
Anyone think if I gave 'em 80K that in 8 years you could teach your kid to read?
Hell I'd bet mine would be reading Atlas Shrugged by now, or Free To Choose!!!
No voucher system equals no loud mouth, foul smelling, violent, theiving, raping young negro bucks running lose in institutions were people are trying to learn. DC schools are messed up for the same reason why Detroit (my home town) has so many messed schools. I can't piece it togther what the common factor is. Does anyone know? rhetorical.
Let me explain it to you. It is called communal segregation or ghettoization. It has happened to groups all over the world, and it was what happened for MANY years in the U.S to Blacks. It is where the Black ghettos in America came from. You take an undesirable, discriminated against minority and segregate them in communities with inferior education and facilities in order to separate them from mainstream society.
The funny part is when you blame them for the result
Vouchers & charter-schools wouldn't work because eventually they retain most of the problems of public-schools but if govt offers non-interest-bearing loans to poor parents/children then it'll make sure that prices don't go up while the standard of education will remain very high, it'd also ensure minimum waste of money, time of teachers/parents/children while maximizing the potential of maximum number of children
No you are subsiding the education of the pupil not the particular school. The market remains free (atleast as far as educational competition is concerned) and is certainly no less free in general than it is now.
Well I'd consider a "free market" as something that exists without subsidies propping it up.
Vouchers not only effectively but are explicitly designed to subsidize private schools, when the government gives out a tax rebate for hybrid cars it's also on a per person basis and can be for any hybrid but it's for hybrids nonetheless.
What amazes me is how concerned everyone claims to be about children, yet the public education system is awful. The best thing that adults can possibly do for kids is give them a good education. "Teach a man to fish....." Education is severly lacking in the USA and needs to be fixed. This is the best possible way! Great video!
@MrTabby5000 The poor is getting it worse of it right now by being forced to stay in substandard public schools. The rich are the ones who currently get the benefit for quality education because they can afford to go to private schools. With vouchers, students from low-income families have the opportunity to get top quality education that wouldn't be available to them without vouchers. People against vouchers are the ones saying "TOUGH!" to the poor.
Vouchers would still do the same thing that public schools do since everyone'd want to put their child in best possible school which would drive the prices up & quality down since it's "free" gov money
I'd propose that govt. offer non-interest-bearing education loans to be paid at a later date or when student starts earning which means that parents'd still look for a good school but won't necessarily go for the most expensive one since they'll be liable to repay the amount [1]
This'd ensure that parents of only those children who're doing well academically will want take those non-interest-bearing education loans, & money & resources would be better utilized for those children who're excelling in studies while those parents whose children has an interest in a particular subject then could spend that loan on a school that specializes in whatever vocational studies their children are interested in; this'd ensure maximization of potential of every child. [2]
Some Black Democrats may not like vouchers, but many more like charters, and even when they don't, if you point out more Black politicians and teachers put their children in private school when compared to the general population, and that Black parents of children in school, when given a chance, choose charters and/or vouchers, there is no disagreement that options should exist.
Republicans believe that every American parent reguardless of race, black, white, latino & asian-should have the same option to pull their kids out of the same failing public schools that President Obama has deemed unfit for his own children. That's the real public option! Vote Republican!
Charter schools can kick kids out -- that's the big difference. Let regular schools kick the thugs and violent out -- watch scores skyrocket.
If you just did that ONE thing -- kick out the thugs, the violent, the bullies, those who are not trying to learn, but to dominate and intimidate others -- and you will improve the scores five times as much as any "program"
Your comments sound like the typical teachers' union horseshit to me. Give us more money or less work and all will be well. Just don't make us compete or require we perform.
Any school system will work if you kick the punks out. Kick the thugs and punks out, schools go pretty well.
Vouchers will work as long as it keeps the punks out. But be careful - all sorts of crazy religious groups can have government schools via Vouchers -- radical Islam, for example.
Then what? If these "punks and thugs" are not in school, not engaged, and they are out looking for means to employ themselves-what do you think they wil find? At least if you prescribe to a conservative or libertarian ideal, expect to spend money later if not sooner on these "punks and thugs."
google dc voucher programs for minority students to check out how well students have done when they've been pulled out of public schools and brought into private schools.
This Stossel is something--high-pitched voice, effeminate persona--and a chicken hawk to boot. It's the kind of voice that should be a no-no in broadcasting; after all, we don't hire individs with no training or tools to be our plumber.
UM dumb fuck -- stossel backs up what? Not on his lunatic support of "Farce Tax"
Did you know Fairtax main source of revenue is taxing cities and states -- not jut people? They tax cities, states, even the military, and count all that "money" they will collect from government as income, not expense.
Im not kidding. It's dumber than dog fuck, which is why no one is really trying to pass it, its a fucking hoax, a farce.
Most of these Talk Radio-Stossel type we to, uh, oh no, public schools. They are also pro-legal immigration so the problems they cite are of their own making. And they love government handouts for themselves and no one else. Ouch. That's an ouch-me!
@lumpagogo "This Stossel is something--high-pitched voice, effeminate persona--and a chicken hawk to boot. It's the kind of voice that should be a no-no in broadcasting; after all, we don't hire individs with no training or tools to be our plumber."
Attacking a person's appearance rather than criticizing their arguments. You, sir, are a genius.
If you've ever been involved in drawing lines for schools, you know the problem with the public school system. Public school enrollment is determined by zones. With public schools, people with money move away from people without money, virtually ensuring that people without money go to poor performing schools and have no chance to succeed. Vouchers offer competition to public schools and their zoning practices. If free education is what we want, it need not be at a publicly owned school.
Absolutely! I wish that these people who disagree would give more thought to vouchers that they give to spelling their curse words. It basically just prooves the point that the present system isn't working. The debate ends on the point that vouchers would not keep anyone down- they would give those lower socioeconomic students a chance at having some kind of options for themselves instead of being forced into a substandard education just to start the cycle all over again! ... agree with you.
The same fuchs that scream for vouchers now, will shit their pants if they get them. Vouchers will have to go to any religious group -- or any group -- who wants to start a school with gov money dumb ass.
That means - dumb fuck -- radical islamic schools -- gang schools - gay and lesbian schools, ect. It means dumb fuck the extreme polarization of society.
It means your money will go to your demise dumb fuck.
Firstly, I never suggested vouchers I said that public education, as it stands, is inefficient and ineffective for many of the students in it. So you're attacking me for something I didn't say. Secondly, I think your conclusion about what would happened under a voucher system is completely ridiculous and unfounded. Unless, of course, you have research to back up your claims; considering your vocabulary seems to be composed of only swear words I would assume you can't back up your claims.
What's so amazing is that our school system is not equitable what-so-ever. It amazes me that people would want to continue such inefficient means of teaching our students. I mean, even the Obama's realize public education sucks, at least in D.C is does horribly. Why would you subject anyone's children to such a travesty and send that child to their doom. It shouldn't be about what the teachers want it should be about what the students need. Public education as it stands is an absolute joke.
So the fuch what if education now is a joke retard?
Vouchers would make it worse moron, not better.
What the fuch are you going to do when Vouchers (which is really money, lets fuching call it money) go to radical islam schools? Do you want our government money you dumb fuch to pay for radical islam schools? Bloods and Crips schools? Gay or White Supremecy schools?
Think a fuching minute moron - there will be all kinds of schools open up to take the money dumb fuch.
So I check my email and I've gotten this response from this old comment I made. Some child masquerading as an adult has decided to call me names because he/she is unwilling, or more likely, incapable of disagreeing with someone without calling them names. Look, when you have something REAL to say send me a message because I don't care to hear the whining of a child with anger issues.
Your stupidity is of the glow-in-the-dark variety, that is, unless enslavement is YOUR ideal. You may be one, but few Americans require an overlord to dictate what's in the best interest of their children. I would even venture to guess that most parents care about their kids more than bureaucrats do. Don't fool yourself--your problem is with liberty. It is nothing more complicated.
I believe that this forum isn't one for a complete and detailed discussion through analysis. So, to respect my time and yours I will say that public schools are not the horrid places that some believe. I can speak to this because I am a teacher. But that is only one point of view. The crux is, as you point out, in ideals and the materialization of those ideals. Liberty is not a untopia. We will always have a governing body.
The question is one of who decides. If government schools perform well, then there would be no incentives for parents to remove their children. But, children should not be condemned to schools that fail them. Its not that these government schools are all bad, and need replacement. It is that competition makes things better. Largely, the same teachers would be teaching in either system. But, with vouchers, opportunities would exist for teachers to band together and create their own schools.
A citizens job is to ensure that the government works for all people through economic, political, and, yes, liberty by understanding that the federal institution is needed in some areas, not in others. In the areas of economic justice, liberty is job one because it directly relates and affects all areas of society and civil life.
So, I think we would argue on the problems, although perhaps not on the process of the solution.
fz complicte this idiot -- if its about liberty dumb fuck, pay for your own school idiot.
Dont have the governmetn pay for your religous fucking school. Got that moron. Thats liberty idiot.
So you fucks want government to fund religious schools thru vouchers, Okay fuck head - but don't call that liberty dumb fuck. Call it the government paying for religious schools.
See dumb fuck - the truth will set your shit free.
@bryanreinholdt1 dumb fuck - approved? You mean by the mean old government who can't do shit?
Plus - dumb fuck -- they will be religious schools. The state won't be able to tell them what to teach, idiot. If there are certian courses they have to teach, they will just say they ARE teaching it.
Meanwhile dumb fuck, they can teach whatever else they want retard. Radical Islam, butt fucking, white power, Nazism, KKK schools, whatever anyone fucking dreams up
Your words, or lack of, speak for themselves. I suppose you have started a charter school at one point in your life? Or perhaps you are a teacher or administrator?
If you don't have anything to contribute based in reality or civil discourse, please stay behind your computer for the everyone's sake.
No dumb fuck -- but I know about the law of unintended consequences. Start handing out money to people who have religous schools, you fucking idiot, and there is nothing to prevent radical muslims - or pretenders -- to claim THEY have a school, so give them money.
Dumb fuck -- do you know how Osama Bin Laden got his radical message out?
Guess what dumb fuck - Saudi paid for schools of radical islam. Wahabi schools, or some such.
I thought you dumb fuck you didnt want government control, remember you fucking idiot.
Government wont be able to tell religious schools what to teach idiot. Freedom of religion, remember dumb fuck?
See dumb fuck -- the government funding religious schools is a shit hole. Go do it dumb fuck - just remember when you fall into the shit hole, who told ya.
milk dumb fuck - -sorry idiot -- most brain surgeons went to public schools. Most presidents. Most CEOs. Most millionaires. Most Social workers, most doctors.
Dont send your kid to public school then. But vouchers you dumb fuck are not the answer.
What I don't understand is why you have to rant and rave. So we disagree on subjects, Big effing deal. We live in a democracy where people are encouraged to have different opinions. But you're going about this in a very childish way. I'm tired of having stupid arguments with people that can't seem to have a calm conversation and discuss their ideas. You seriously need to reconsider the way you talk to people because you're being very immature and childish.
@Taxfools cause thats the only thing avialable? and actually 70% of doctors go to private schools. And all the people you just mentioned went to collage to learn their proffesion not public school.
. I won't be arguing with you though. At this juncture, It is pointless. You don't understand because you don't have the eyes and ears and mind to percieve the reality of the spiritual discoveries. When you gain that, you will understand. It is found in the Bible, not Wikipedia. I am not all-knowing or perfect, but I am priviledged to have a creator who is. I already know how the debate ultimately ends. I sincerely wish that you may find the answers too.
I agree completely. My son was being badly bullied in the first grade. I did not know it started quite so young. I knew that i had to get him out of there, but vouchers where not available. I decided that a good, safe, Christian education was so important to me that i sacrificed anything i could t see that my child was able to go to private school. It is worth it to me to do without so that he can have a good foundation in life. Thankyou so much. Great video!!!!
You make sense until you mention "Christian education". There is no way vouchers will ever go to a school that teaches creationism or intelligent design and to be honest you paying to send him or her to that school is tantamount to neglect.
Funny! I teach at a Christian school that charges approximately $3,400 a year to educate a child. That is around a third of what the public schools in this area are spending per student. The test scores and the overall tracked success rate of students speaks for itself. To suggest that you know that intelligent design/creationism is false is similar to those who guessed that the world was flat... be wrong if you want to. That is typical of a product of inferior education.
I congragulate you on being able to keep costs down while maintaining good test scores. This is why I think charter schools are an excellent idea.
However, the fact that this has nothing to do with my argument is nothing short of hilarious. My 'inferior education' is on the level of the Ivy League, if not better. When you can find any scientific evidence showing evolution is false let me know. Until then maybe you should look up 'scientific method' on Wikipedia and learn why you're wrong.
Ah! Do tell of your wonderful credentials. You say you are perhaps more than Ivy League educated? Interesting point, since that is also relative(my implication of why your scientific method means nothing in the spiritual realm). You can know a lot of things; but if you fail to know the truth, it is all pointless for you anyway. I pray you find it.
Correct. The scientific method says nothing of the spiritual realm because there is no reason for us to assume there is one. Face it. Other than the fact that a) your parents forced you to attend church and grinded it into you or b) your life sucked and a pastor acted in the place of a psychologist you would never believe in Christianity either. And why would you?
If you are right and I have lived a life of spiritual peace and motivation to love and help others, what has been lost? (nothing. It is still gain) If I am right, and I have gained eternal life in heaven with my Holy Father, what have I gained? (everything) The missionary Jim Elliot (who gave his very life for the cause of telling others of Christ) said, "It is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot loose." That is the most logical thing anyone has ever said.
Pascals Wager! I don't know if you've ever thought about the words you're typing but this one falls flat on it's face. First off, you pretend as if there is no loss from believing in religion. Well actually there is. It's called stem cell research. Second, the claim that if it's true means you will go to heaven is absurd. There is no reason to believe that it would either help or hurt you, so the effects cancel out. This is true for the multitude of religions on this planet. There is no gain.
Combat there is tremendous gain from religion -- it's called pussy. Men have learned long ago to fake religious belief to get laid. It works. Men have used religion for power, prestige, and pussy since the start of human kind.
Islam is all about control of the women -- but all religion is like that, to an important degree. Without religion, fake as it is, we would have to use far more force to control women.
Again, you speak of something of which you do not know. There are many phychologist who have denounced their religion of psychology and chosen the truth of God's word to guide them (Two examples are James Dobson and John Rosemond, both of whom are well respected by a large portion of the American population). Again, sad for you...
Again, you are not talking to someone who believes more in the creation. You are talking to someone who believes in the creator. You are a religious man yourself. You believe in the religion of science which also is based on faith. Show me scientific proof (no holes, please) that prooves that there is not a God.
OK first off that's not how it works. You can't come up with something and then tell me to disprove it. Disprove Zeus causes lightning!
Next I wouldn't say there is no god or creator. Obviously we came from somewhere I just don't want to throw my trust in something that has no proof.
And if you want me to find evidence against a Christian god I would have to say the story of Job is pretty much the giveaway. Or maybe it was that the Bible was written by people high on shrooms.
With all due respect science is not a religion precisely because it is not based on faith. It is based on facts that can be objectively demonstrated and testable theories based on those facts. The only "faith" involved is a belief in the evidence of your own senses and the validity of deductive reasoning.
It is entirely possible that a religious viewpoint is in some ways better than scientific one but make no mistake, they are very different ways of trying to understand the world around us.
LOL, sorry to jump in here, but in this case you would actually be the one saying the world is flat by suggesting creationism...It's just really funny how you got that all mixed up.
Reread, and attempt to understand. Lack of faith is indeed a form of faith itself. Those who believe solely in science are no different. Hebrews 11- "Faith is... the evidence of things not yet seen." Although, if you agree with combat 52, you won't understand.
I absolutely disagree, but I'm not about to get into a long drawn out discussion with someone over the internet..believe whatever you want to believe.
Religionists needs to pay for their own schools. Same is true of Science-Peoplez and anyone else who wants voucher-monies aka tax-monies. You peoplez say you hate taxes but all of a sudden you want those tax-money for yourselves. No, no, no, no. That a no-no, hippo-the-crites.
You are an obvious product of the public system. I pay taxes. If I want to use my money to pay for a quality ed. instead of the farce that is out there now, that doesn't make me a hipocrite. It makes me more thoughtful than you are. I worked in the public system for five years, and I have worked for a private school for seven. There is no comparison. Tax money IS the people's money. I just don't think it should be up to someone else to spend my portion of cash or decide for my own kids : P
ozzie, not only are you devoid of debating skills, you are an egomaniac, having turned the discussion into a rant about the glories of you. I shouldn't be interested in anything you have to
Read your own comment - You have no reading comprehension skills and have debated nothing. MY point is made (and, yes, I feel pretty pleased that you are so ignorant that I don't have to work very hard). Thanks.
I totally disagree with a federal voucher program. Local taxes pay for schools as well as state aid. Get the vouchers from those sources. I don't want to pay for lazy deadbeats in other states...I have enough of them here in NJ.
If they really let the market reign, people would open up little schools all over the place. Rent a little storefront, and set up a school. We would get some nice diversity too, because different sorts of parents would demand different types of schools.
in an ideal world, the gov would have nothing to do with schools. But in the America we live in, vouchers are a better option than the current situation.
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Yeah right, like rich white people let poor blacks in their schools. Ever hear of the "bussing" crises of the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Talk about faulty analogical reasoning.
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No one is saying the "Public Schools" are a theocracy; the United States is a combination Corpocracy/Theocracy wherein its citizens are taught at an early age to be Humanistic toward immigrants and against equal treatment of non-human animals. The acquiring of things is taught as essential (capitalism vs the communal way); hence, the Corpocracy.
Given the recent economic trend, we see the Govt. becoming a permanent fixture as a mega-corporation. Vouchers? Why?
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It would be nice if people actually listened to you. Instead, these people think that they are actually subversive to some kind of liberal hegemony while in fact supporting every existing structure of power. it's crazy especially because all the schools overseas that are doing better than the US's are in countries that have healthy socialist/labour parties like Britain, France, and Germany. Amazing. The problems of capitalism can be fixed w/ more capitalism?
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anchor/o-s:
To be sure. We worship both monies and superstitiion here in the U.S., hence the Corpocracy/Theocracy. Our friends who voice their opinions based on what Talk Radio says are also supressing the obvious fact that School Vouchers are nothing more than a re-distributive technique. Yet, we are told by these friends that they despise "re-distribution."
When people hold sacred their own property/homes but no regard for Mother Earth, we see: "Hope Springs Infernal."
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We do need "change"--radical change. It can't be effected by pure capitalism, actual communism representing only an ideal ,as well. We could survive by combining the two which has to be an accomplice to a new paradigm of priorities--Earth is first: Animal, Tree and Water. Without a profound veneration of the entities which sustain our home, the Third Rock, we are gone.
Earth can't handle another 7-8,000,000,000 of us; its pier will collapse if another 2,000,000,000 are added.
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That's right baby capitalism is responsible for our lousy education system and I can support this with hard evidence from various reputable sources both liberal and conservative. First, education is a commodity in our country that makes universities and colleges money. Why would these interests want you to learn anything in high school that you would have to pay to learn at their schools? Consumer capitalism (not producer capitalism) has a vested interest in keeping consumers dumbed down.
Sorry, buddy, but there's nothing capitalistic about something provided by the government.
Historically, our educational systems were fine until schmucks like John Dewey succeeded in getting more government involvement in education. The problem, as with our health care and many other things, is TOO MUCH government involvement, not too little.
Look at just about ANYTHING, and you'll see that in only got worse as government got more involved.
Ok don't give me a thumbs down just for asking a question cause I'm trying to learn. If you think the schools are better off without government then what is your response to how expensive and messy college is. They are run very well though.
The rapid rise in college tuition directly correlates to increases in pell grants, government subsidized college loans, and tuition assistance.
Essentially, colleges are now operating with a huge amount of insulation from market forces, not quite the monopoly that public schools enjoy but still the market is playing a subsidized role.
In a market, a provider cuts rates to compete. In colleges, rates go up as government casts more money to the 'education' lobby.
The fact that this video only has 3255 views is why the school system is screwed. They've got to at least inject some sort of competitive element for schools to compete for funds based on student performance. That would be a start.
Playing devils advocate---put the European schools are public? How then is going private the answer [Hint: European schools are small, just as the states themselves.]
European public schools are not nearly as good as private schools. And Europe is mostly white. We have cultural conflicts in our public education system here in America.
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wtf is this bull**** i hate you pisciotta thanks for wasting another 10 minutes of my life with this pointless crap this is why old people need to be committed rather than able to force their crap onto students
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People like Stossel are too hopelessly half-wise to realize that you can't have rational socialism-- i.e. whoever takes the king's gold, must to the king's bidding.
As long as government has power, the government DECIDES what to do with it-- NOT the people; that's a difficult concept for most to comprehend, however that's because they likewise lack literacy in politics, i.e you can't get a free lunch AND order a la carte.
But they never learn-- even with vouchers!
SovereignStatesman 3 months ago
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Since when does shitting out a brat, entitle one to ANYTHING-- let alone a free education?
These socialist arguments are pure horse-puckey; no one should get a PENNY from the taxpayers for the family that they CHOSE to create; perhaps people should size their brood better according to their pocketbook?
And then they'll have FULL choice, since THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!
Or does that make too much sense?
But here they say 2 wrongs make a right. Guess what? They DON'T! Entitlements are THEFT!
SovereignStatesman 3 months ago
the problem is, in private schools you are paying to get good grades.
diogotomediogo 3 months ago in playlist Mais vídeos de LibertyPen
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@diogotomediogo
You're saying they INFLATE grades? That's a serious charge, and you're full of shit.
SovereignStatesman 3 months ago
This whole discussion seems to ignore the actual cause of the problem. What exactly do the private schools do differently that make them better than public schools? Instead of just blindly deciding to institute vouchers, why don't we modify public schools to use the superior techniques that private schools use? Then we could have good public schools without the disadvantages that private schools have.
Is the problem systemic? Public schools can't implement a pay grade based on productivity?
jsmith224455 6 months ago
@jsmith224455 What makes private schools better is competition, a reason to do better than others. A monopoly does not have competition.
bdg323 4 months ago
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@bdg323
Great, but the simple fact is that beggars can't be choosers, and public school is a WELFARE STATE by definition.
The only way to fix it, is to NIX it!
SovereignStatesman 3 months ago
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@jsmith224455
"Public schools can't implement a pay grade based on productivity?"
Nope. You really are a clueless noob.
SovereignStatesman 3 months ago
saying school vouchers don't provide better education is like saying choosing a restaurant of your choice instead of being appointed to a specific one by the government wouldn't give you a better meal.
mikeboosh 6 months ago
Right-wingers who favor the voucher thing.
Tell me, please. As a taxpayer, how would you feel if your tax dollars went to a private Atheist school vouchers so low-income kids could attend. Atheism is taught at that school, and your tax dollars are going TO THAT SCHOOL to teach children atheism. It’s a private school with a 99% graduation rate, but atheist in nature. Are you okay with that?
demmmmm1 7 months ago
@demmmmm1 I might wince a bit, but YES. America is about liberty and liberty is about individual rights. That means that free people are permitted to make their own choices rather than bureaucrats in the Department of Education. Liberty means tolerating the choices of others so that they tolerate yours. Absolutely. It is up to parents to guide children morally. One may put themselves out as an atheist or a Christian, but that alone does not indicate the true moral character of any individual.
fzqlcs 7 months ago
@demmmmm1
If the parents choose that school and it is not forced on them, perfectly acceptable. The question is why is choice a bad thing? You're completely focusing on the wrong issue, the fact that education is a state run monopoly which has failed the our children. Look at Obama, he's sending his kids to private school for a reason because he even he knows public school is shit. Opening up the market place forces schools to teach or else nobody would go there.
Jebusrulez 6 months ago
@Jebusrulez Remember when the right-wing went nuts over ACORN, even though much of it was bogus? That’s how I feel about religious schools. Don’t want my tax dollars going there.
Question: If the private sector is so concerned about educating our children, why aren’t they? Why haven’t they done some fundraising and paid for school ‘choice’ themselves? Why lean on government since the private sector “knows how to get it done?"
demmmmm1 6 months ago
@demmmmm1
But if the kids are getting a better education than the public schools it still is bad? Sure you may hate religion but having a generation of kids who can't compete in the global economy is a better alternative? You can fund raise to death, which these schools do, but it really hard to compete against an entity that can take property in the form of taxes. It's a joke that school choice doesn't come into college in this country. Actually, why are you defending public schools?
Jebusrulez 6 months ago
@Jebusrulez If student performance goes up, great. There just isn’t much evidence of that right now. Graduation rates went up for some, but individual performance didn’t really move. And a good sum of students go back to their pub school because they weren’t getting what they needed. And some voucher programs (believe it or not) pay for students who have already been been attending pvt school. Shame.
Having said that, if it’s working, and Jesus isn’t involved, I’m good with it.
demmmmm1 6 months ago
@demmmmm1
So let's say that if the parents where able to keep their property tax money instead of sending it to the government and were able to choose the school of their choice, would that be acceptable? Therefore none of your money would indirectly have to go to religious schools (although I don't see why you care when the education is much better but your choice).
Jebusrulez 6 months ago
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@Jebusrulez
How about EVERYONE PAYS THEIR OWN WAY?
It's logical, it's fair, and it ends up a better deal for the majority.
But most morons can't understand the simple fact that THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH, and so they all come squealing like pigs to the trough when the politicians call "Sooooo-EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!" thinking that they have a RIGHT to it.. then they OINK when they don't like the slop.
What hams!
SovereignStatesman 3 months ago
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@demmmmm1
It's pretty sad when people need to PROVE the right to keep their own money; sounds like the Soviet Union refusing to let people leave to get cancer-treatments, saying "there's no proof that US treatments are better than ours."
Yeah... it's like that.
SovereignStatesman 3 months ago
Republican = Democrat
force3264 7 months ago
My physics teacher gave us a daily lecture where he went through the material as fast as he could. He would finish in twenty minutes on average each day and spend the rest of the day talking to students. Those who needed help with the material had to wait in line for a good portion of the hour, and once they did get help the teacher would simply show the first step of the problem and dismiss them. About three people in that class knew the material, the rest cheated or failed.
justicetrooper 8 months ago
everyone knows that our public schools are terrible yet the 'liberals' want to do the same thing with our healthcare and leave it to the gov't to run.
HanStanwell 8 months ago
@HanStanwell The best and most popular health system we have is gov’t run. John McCain’s favorite place to go under the knife is the Naval Hospital at Bethesda. And every senior citizen I know says, “Keep your hands off my Medicare!!”
And what’s so good about a private system that chooses to drop you when you get sick, refuse you due to a pre-existing condition, and add 25% to your premiums so they can pay a CEO $200,000,000.00/yr?
I’ll pass, thank you.
MEDICARE FOR ALL!!!!!!
demmmmm1 7 months ago
Listen to Charter School Radio on wsradio.com with Host "Coach" Dennis Snyder. Help support the charter school movement by liking us on facebook.
CharterSchoolRadio 8 months ago
"We just need more money!"
No. Fuck you. There has been TRILLIONS going into the public education system for decades.
If a private school can get the job done for the same dime or less, I'm all for it.
Darkrunner1975 9 months ago
The Voucher program in Milwaukee has failed. Performance is the same or worse.
How did that happen? I thought vouchers were the answer to all our prayers!
Oh, I know - private schools DON’T HAVE BETTER TEACHERS. They have some money, and students of wealth with private tutors for everything under the sun. I know, I taught in both public and private. Private teaching was a cush job compared to public school. It helps when you can hand-pick who you choose to teach.
demmmmm1 9 months ago
@demmmmm1 oh you again? haha. according to a study made of the Milwaukee's older and larger voucher program found that 94% of students who stayed in the program throughout high school graduated, versus just 75% of students in Milwaukee's traditional public schools. Funny huh? yet you're accusing it of a failure... 9 out of 10 studies about vouchers find that vouchers improve student outcomes. as a public teacher you're probably using that 1 study for your convenience if you're using a study all.
Sexisttroll 7 months ago
@Sexisttroll Grad rates slightly increased, but many of the more ‘challenged’ students left the program to go back to pub school - 45-55% said it was because they didn’t get the instructional support they needed. Lack of certain skilled teachers in pvt school weeded out many of the ‘tough’ cases, which also skewed grad rates.
And there was no discernible improvement in academic achievement in math & reading. Both Milwaukee and D.C. programs have failed.
demmmmm1 7 months ago
@Sexisttroll You’ve got your facts wrong on the studies. You’ve got it backwards.
Finally, did you know that some of the students receiving voucher money already attended a private school before getting voucher money? They still aren’t really taking the tough students.
AND...I don’t want my tax money going to a religious school - it’s unconstitutional.
demmmmm1 7 months ago
@demmmmm1 again yet you're using statistics of students who really never took the scholarship, and the reality is that the major reasons that students opt out of the scholarships are: going into charter school (21.8%), lack of space (18.5%), moved out (15.2%), transportation issues (13.7%), with "lack of academic support" nowhere to be seen. ".I don’t want my tax money going to a religious school - it’s unconstitutional." actually a court in Wisconsin ruled it constitutional...
Sexisttroll 7 months ago
however the public schools on the other hand can be ruled unconstitutional because it teaches humanism which is a type of sectarianism... so basically if you want to discuss the constitution, your taxes are going to the construction of schools who teach only evolution, which is unconstitutional, rather than giving the money to the parent and the parent choosing a catholic school...
Sexisttroll 7 months ago
@Sexisttroll Teaching evolution is not unconstitutional. It’s called “science.” Evolution is unrelated to religion.
You’re right that I used just one example, and it’s a rare one. My point is that some public schools kick ass. And there are pvt schools that wouldn’t know what to do with a disabled student to save their soul.
I want ZERO public money going to any religious institution. I like Jefferson’s “wall of separation."
demmmmm1 7 months ago
@demmmmm1 actually according to the constitution Article IX, Section 4 "All schools maintained or supported wholly or in part by the public funds shall be forever free from sectarian control or influence." humanism is a form of sectarianism and humanism is being thought in public schools, plus the money for vouchers goes to the parent not the school, which means the private school is not supported directly by public funds but by the parent which is granted the choice...
Sexisttroll 7 months ago
@Sexisttroll The voucher goes to the parent. Nice one. And then it goes where......?
demmmmm1 7 months ago
@demmmmm1 well it then goes to the parent's choice thank you for asking...
Sexisttroll 7 months ago
@Sexisttroll C’mon. Just admit it. The voucher goes to the private school, and many of them are religious schools.
Your kind of thinking is what creates accounting schemes that trash the economy. My tax money is going to religious schools and I don’t like it.
demmmmm1 7 months ago
@demmmmm1 you're kind of thinking is what is ruining the economy the cost of the voucher is way lower (7,500) than the cost per student in public educations (28,000), and they get a better education, plus 80% go to religious schools so not all of them are religious... and your tax money goes to parents not schools... the parents choose the school...
Sexisttroll 7 months ago
@Sexisttroll 80%?? I didn’t think it was that bad!!! And again...the voucher ends up at the school - that’s what it’s for. Jeez!
Hear about the voucher bill in Pennsylvania? 65% of voucher recipients already attend a pvt or parochial school. Really “serving the poor,” eh?
Tell me something. Why are righties so into this? Isn’t it a “gov’t handout?” Don’t they want to keep gov’t OUT of the private sector? Answer: it serves their base - the wealthy.
demmmmm1 7 months ago
@demmmmm1 oh wow so you think religious is only catholic? funny... it even includes Buddhism... the other thing is that the Pennsylvania SB1 increases eligibility for vouchers up to an income of $78,225 for a family of four, however you're using only one program, Milwaukee for example has an eligibility income of $38,587, and once the voucher is receive their income is only allowed to rise till $48,510 and that is for a family of four...
Sexisttroll 7 months ago
the dc voucher program has an eligibility income of $36,000 oh yeah thats too rich they probably already sending their kids to a private school with that income... I like how you overgeneralize using one example... and I find it hilarious how you liberals abuse that classic saying that us republicans are for the wealthy when in fact democrats control most of the richest districts in the country... and btw republicans donate twice as more as democrats to charity...
Sexisttroll 7 months ago
oh thats definately hating the poor... so tell me other than republicans being for the rich what other insult you've got?
Sexisttroll 7 months ago
@Sexisttroll When did I mention “Catholic?” I don’t want my money going to a Buddhist school, either, even though Buddhists tend to be more evolved.
demmmmm1 7 months ago
@demmmmm1 its not your money... its the parents money... after all they get to choose where to spend it...
Sexisttroll 7 months ago
@Sexisttroll If it’s the parent’s money, why do they need a voucher? By that same logic, you could say that welfare recipients are not using taxpayer money. It’s THEIR money, so what’s the problem, right?
Lordy. You’ll be far better off if you at least admit the basic truth. Gov’t provides vouchers. Where does gov’t get that money? Taxpayers. Where does the money end up? At the private school. Every single thing gov’t spends money on involves taxpayer money.
Wow.
demmmmm1 7 months ago
@demmmmm1 yes but it depends where the parents spend the money... you're arguing that the vouchers are unconstitutional just because they somehow end up in a private religious school, but the money does not necessarily goes to a religious school it goes to wherever the parents choose...
Sexisttroll 7 months ago
which means vouchers are indeed constitutional...
Sexisttroll 7 months ago
i wish my parents had vouchers when i went through grade school. Public grade school is terrible.
nathansensation5 10 months ago
I heard Wisconsin spends, on average, 10K a year per student.
I have also heard that according to the results of standardized test results, 1 out of 3 8th graders in Wisonsin cannot read proficiently at an 8th grade level.
So what I take from that is after 8 years and $80K the Wisconsin GOVT education system can't teach a kid to read.
Anyone think if I gave 'em 80K that in 8 years you could teach your kid to read?
Hell I'd bet mine would be reading Atlas Shrugged by now, or Free To Choose!!!
EchoMike03 11 months ago
No voucher system equals no loud mouth, foul smelling, violent, theiving, raping young negro bucks running lose in institutions were people are trying to learn. DC schools are messed up for the same reason why Detroit (my home town) has so many messed schools. I can't piece it togther what the common factor is. Does anyone know? rhetorical.
AlabamaConfederacy 1 year ago
@AlabamaConfederacy
Let me explain it to you. It is called communal segregation or ghettoization. It has happened to groups all over the world, and it was what happened for MANY years in the U.S to Blacks. It is where the Black ghettos in America came from. You take an undesirable, discriminated against minority and segregate them in communities with inferior education and facilities in order to separate them from mainstream society.
The funny part is when you blame them for the result
Califacience 11 months ago
Greatest Asian women **busizz4me.info**
cinthiacheung 1 year ago
Wouldn't the most needy children benefit from private schools.
JeremyKonstenius 1 year ago
BEST TRANSITIONAL MUSIC EVER!!
5506 1 year ago
"Why should our students spend time hugging trees when they can't read"
Ohhh OWNT!!
But seriously, it's about damn time we do somthing about the crappy education in this country.
Chibiwaza 1 year ago
Charter schools perform well below public schools and vouchers had really bad results in New Zealand.
But it's cool that Stossel's ideology outweighs objective facts.
AndroidPolitician 1 year ago
@AndroidPolitician
Vouchers & charter-schools wouldn't work because eventually they retain most of the problems of public-schools but if govt offers non-interest-bearing loans to poor parents/children then it'll make sure that prices don't go up while the standard of education will remain very high, it'd also ensure minimum waste of money, time of teachers/parents/children while maximizing the potential of maximum number of children
lomocan 1 year ago
@lomocan
a "non-interest-bearing loan" is literally the exact same thing as a voucher.
Plus even if we assume it's different then a voucher, it's still subsidizing private schools, not exactly the "free market" Stossel enjoys.
AndroidPolitician 1 year ago
@AndroidPolitician
No you are subsiding the education of the pupil not the particular school. The market remains free (atleast as far as educational competition is concerned) and is certainly no less free in general than it is now.
Califacience 11 months ago
@Califacience
Well I'd consider a "free market" as something that exists without subsidies propping it up.
Vouchers not only effectively but are explicitly designed to subsidize private schools, when the government gives out a tax rebate for hybrid cars it's also on a per person basis and can be for any hybrid but it's for hybrids nonetheless.
AndroidPolitician 11 months ago
What amazes me is how concerned everyone claims to be about children, yet the public education system is awful. The best thing that adults can possibly do for kids is give them a good education. "Teach a man to fish....." Education is severly lacking in the USA and needs to be fixed. This is the best possible way! Great video!
Krupification 1 year ago
Abolish the public school and privatize it,as for the poor tough.
MrTabby5000 1 year ago
@MrTabby5000 The poor is getting it worse of it right now by being forced to stay in substandard public schools. The rich are the ones who currently get the benefit for quality education because they can afford to go to private schools. With vouchers, students from low-income families have the opportunity to get top quality education that wouldn't be available to them without vouchers. People against vouchers are the ones saying "TOUGH!" to the poor.
kyler187 1 year ago
@kyler187
Vouchers would still do the same thing that public schools do since everyone'd want to put their child in best possible school which would drive the prices up & quality down since it's "free" gov money
I'd propose that govt. offer non-interest-bearing education loans to be paid at a later date or when student starts earning which means that parents'd still look for a good school but won't necessarily go for the most expensive one since they'll be liable to repay the amount [1]
lomocan 1 year ago
@kyler187
This'd ensure that parents of only those children who're doing well academically will want take those non-interest-bearing education loans, & money & resources would be better utilized for those children who're excelling in studies while those parents whose children has an interest in a particular subject then could spend that loan on a school that specializes in whatever vocational studies their children are interested in; this'd ensure maximization of potential of every child. [2]
lomocan 1 year ago
i conqure
Siagos 1 year ago
Some Black Democrats may not like vouchers, but many more like charters, and even when they don't, if you point out more Black politicians and teachers put their children in private school when compared to the general population, and that Black parents of children in school, when given a chance, choose charters and/or vouchers, there is no disagreement that options should exist.
BlackRepublican2010 1 year ago
Republicans believe that every American parent reguardless of race, black, white, latino & asian-should have the same option to pull their kids out of the same failing public schools that President Obama has deemed unfit for his own children. That's the real public option! Vote Republican!
BlackRepublican2010 1 year ago 16
@BlackRepublican2010 you sir! fill me with hope...
Sexisttroll 10 months ago
@BlackRepublican2010 Republicans-as a whole- have failed us. Vote for Conservatives!
etrnlcoca 9 months ago 6
@etrnlcoca u have different types of conservatives.
sniped101 3 months ago in playlist sniped101's favorites
Charter schools can kick kids out -- that's the big difference. Let regular schools kick the thugs and violent out -- watch scores skyrocket.
If you just did that ONE thing -- kick out the thugs, the violent, the bullies, those who are not trying to learn, but to dominate and intimidate others -- and you will improve the scores five times as much as any "program"
Taxfools 1 year ago
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robertmike57 1 year ago
@robertmike57
Your comments sound like the typical teachers' union horseshit to me. Give us more money or less work and all will be well. Just don't make us compete or require we perform.
fzqlcs 1 year ago
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robertmike57 1 year ago
@fzqlcs
Canadian Moslem.
lumpagogo 1 year ago
Students and parents are not customers. Teachers are not programmers. Stossel should have spent one of his twenty years of research teaching.
bryanreinholdt1 1 year ago
Vouchers -- hope it works.
Any school system will work if you kick the punks out. Kick the thugs and punks out, schools go pretty well.
Vouchers will work as long as it keeps the punks out. But be careful - all sorts of crazy religious groups can have government schools via Vouchers -- radical Islam, for example.
Taxfools 2 years ago
Then what? If these "punks and thugs" are not in school, not engaged, and they are out looking for means to employ themselves-what do you think they wil find? At least if you prescribe to a conservative or libertarian ideal, expect to spend money later if not sooner on these "punks and thugs."
bryanreinholdt1 1 year ago
Three clowns-of-clodness are Stossel, Sowell and Walter E. William. Flee from these shtink-doodles. Run for your lives, pee-pullz!
lumpagogo 2 years ago
google dc voucher programs for minority students to check out how well students have done when they've been pulled out of public schools and brought into private schools.
umrmecheman 2 years ago
This Stossel is something--high-pitched voice, effeminate persona--and a chicken hawk to boot. It's the kind of voice that should be a no-no in broadcasting; after all, we don't hire individs with no training or tools to be our plumber.
lumpagogo 2 years ago
good debating skills. attacking the messenger is so weak sauce.
stossel backs up his assertions with facts, statistics, reasoning. you should take a page from his book and do the same.
umrmecheman 2 years ago
Vouchers are govt. handouts, under-meister. Do you roger that simple, objective, obvious reality? Well, do ya', um-ra?
lumpagogo 2 years ago
UM dumb fuck -- stossel backs up what? Not on his lunatic support of "Farce Tax"
Did you know Fairtax main source of revenue is taxing cities and states -- not jut people? They tax cities, states, even the military, and count all that "money" they will collect from government as income, not expense.
Im not kidding. It's dumber than dog fuck, which is why no one is really trying to pass it, its a fucking hoax, a farce.
So that's your Stossel, dumb fuck.
Taxfools 2 years ago
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robertmike57 1 year ago
@robertmike57
Most of these Talk Radio-Stossel type we to, uh, oh no, public schools. They are also pro-legal immigration so the problems they cite are of their own making. And they love government handouts for themselves and no one else. Ouch. That's an ouch-me!
lumpagogo 1 year ago
@robertmike57 You should think before you speak. It'll do you a world of good.
MagnusIan 1 year ago
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@lumpagogo "This Stossel is something--high-pitched voice, effeminate persona--and a chicken hawk to boot. It's the kind of voice that should be a no-no in broadcasting; after all, we don't hire individs with no training or tools to be our plumber."
Attacking a person's appearance rather than criticizing their arguments. You, sir, are a genius.
MagnusIan 1 year ago
Let's have vouchers. KKK can get schools going -- and paid for -- by your voucher money. Islamic schools - teaching jihad -- great idea.
Get some blood and crip schools, some white power schools, gay and transgender voucher schools.
Hey its a great idea. We need to fragment the living shit out of our society -- fuck these school, terrible idea. Lets do it.
Just do me a fucking favor - don't come bitching about the Jihad schools, the KKK schools, the white power schools.
Taxfools 2 years ago
Stop smoking crack.
nero8289 2 years ago
If you've ever been involved in drawing lines for schools, you know the problem with the public school system. Public school enrollment is determined by zones. With public schools, people with money move away from people without money, virtually ensuring that people without money go to poor performing schools and have no chance to succeed. Vouchers offer competition to public schools and their zoning practices. If free education is what we want, it need not be at a publicly owned school.
oterj0 2 years ago 4
Absolutely! I wish that these people who disagree would give more thought to vouchers that they give to spelling their curse words. It basically just prooves the point that the present system isn't working. The debate ends on the point that vouchers would not keep anyone down- they would give those lower socioeconomic students a chance at having some kind of options for themselves instead of being forced into a substandard education just to start the cycle all over again! ... agree with you.
ladyosburn 2 years ago
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Taxfools 2 years ago
The public school system in the US is horrid. I wouldn't send my dog in most of these schools.
xxashyy 2 years ago
Check your email again dumb ass.
The same fuchs that scream for vouchers now, will shit their pants if they get them. Vouchers will have to go to any religious group -- or any group -- who wants to start a school with gov money dumb ass.
That means - dumb fuck -- radical islamic schools -- gang schools - gay and lesbian schools, ect. It means dumb fuck the extreme polarization of society.
It means your money will go to your demise dumb fuck.
Taxfools 2 years ago
Firstly, I never suggested vouchers I said that public education, as it stands, is inefficient and ineffective for many of the students in it. So you're attacking me for something I didn't say. Secondly, I think your conclusion about what would happened under a voucher system is completely ridiculous and unfounded. Unless, of course, you have research to back up your claims; considering your vocabulary seems to be composed of only swear words I would assume you can't back up your claims.
mikzyspitlik 2 years ago
Comment removed
robertmike57 1 year ago
What's so amazing is that our school system is not equitable what-so-ever. It amazes me that people would want to continue such inefficient means of teaching our students. I mean, even the Obama's realize public education sucks, at least in D.C is does horribly. Why would you subject anyone's children to such a travesty and send that child to their doom. It shouldn't be about what the teachers want it should be about what the students need. Public education as it stands is an absolute joke.
mikzyspitlik 2 years ago 17
So the fuch what if education now is a joke retard?
Vouchers would make it worse moron, not better.
What the fuch are you going to do when Vouchers (which is really money, lets fuching call it money) go to radical islam schools? Do you want our government money you dumb fuch to pay for radical islam schools? Bloods and Crips schools? Gay or White Supremecy schools?
Think a fuching minute moron - there will be all kinds of schools open up to take the money dumb fuch.
Taxfools 2 years ago
So I check my email and I've gotten this response from this old comment I made. Some child masquerading as an adult has decided to call me names because he/she is unwilling, or more likely, incapable of disagreeing with someone without calling them names. Look, when you have something REAL to say send me a message because I don't care to hear the whining of a child with anger issues.
mikzyspitlik 2 years ago
I would love to see a Blood school! HA! Who's the headmaster?
Do you realize that charter schools have to be approved for funds?
There is a reason why these comments are limited to sites like YouTube....they are completely ignorant.
bryanreinholdt1 1 year ago
Your stupidity is of the glow-in-the-dark variety, that is, unless enslavement is YOUR ideal. You may be one, but few Americans require an overlord to dictate what's in the best interest of their children. I would even venture to guess that most parents care about their kids more than bureaucrats do. Don't fool yourself--your problem is with liberty. It is nothing more complicated.
fzqlcs 1 year ago
"It is nothing more complicated." What?
I believe that this forum isn't one for a complete and detailed discussion through analysis. So, to respect my time and yours I will say that public schools are not the horrid places that some believe. I can speak to this because I am a teacher. But that is only one point of view. The crux is, as you point out, in ideals and the materialization of those ideals. Liberty is not a untopia. We will always have a governing body.
bryanreinholdt1 1 year ago
The question is one of who decides. If government schools perform well, then there would be no incentives for parents to remove their children. But, children should not be condemned to schools that fail them. Its not that these government schools are all bad, and need replacement. It is that competition makes things better. Largely, the same teachers would be teaching in either system. But, with vouchers, opportunities would exist for teachers to band together and create their own schools.
fzqlcs 1 year ago
A citizens job is to ensure that the government works for all people through economic, political, and, yes, liberty by understanding that the federal institution is needed in some areas, not in others. In the areas of economic justice, liberty is job one because it directly relates and affects all areas of society and civil life.
So, I think we would argue on the problems, although perhaps not on the process of the solution.
bryanreinholdt1 1 year ago
fz complicte this idiot -- if its about liberty dumb fuck, pay for your own school idiot.
Dont have the governmetn pay for your religous fucking school. Got that moron. Thats liberty idiot.
So you fucks want government to fund religious schools thru vouchers, Okay fuck head - but don't call that liberty dumb fuck. Call it the government paying for religious schools.
See dumb fuck - the truth will set your shit free.
Taxfools 1 year ago
you think like you talk. shit for brains.
fzqlcs 1 year ago 2
@bryanreinholdt1 dumb fuck - approved? You mean by the mean old government who can't do shit?
Plus - dumb fuck -- they will be religious schools. The state won't be able to tell them what to teach, idiot. If there are certian courses they have to teach, they will just say they ARE teaching it.
Meanwhile dumb fuck, they can teach whatever else they want retard. Radical Islam, butt fucking, white power, Nazism, KKK schools, whatever anyone fucking dreams up
Taxfools 1 year ago
Your words, or lack of, speak for themselves. I suppose you have started a charter school at one point in your life? Or perhaps you are a teacher or administrator?
If you don't have anything to contribute based in reality or civil discourse, please stay behind your computer for the everyone's sake.
Good night, don't let the bed bug bite.
bryanreinholdt1 1 year ago
No dumb fuck -- but I know about the law of unintended consequences. Start handing out money to people who have religous schools, you fucking idiot, and there is nothing to prevent radical muslims - or pretenders -- to claim THEY have a school, so give them money.
Dumb fuck -- do you know how Osama Bin Laden got his radical message out?
Guess what dumb fuck - Saudi paid for schools of radical islam. Wahabi schools, or some such.
Learn some fucking history
Taxfools 1 year ago
bry -- approved? By who? Government?
I thought you dumb fuck you didnt want government control, remember you fucking idiot.
Government wont be able to tell religious schools what to teach idiot. Freedom of religion, remember dumb fuck?
See dumb fuck -- the government funding religious schools is a shit hole. Go do it dumb fuck - just remember when you fall into the shit hole, who told ya.
Taxfools 1 year ago
milk dumb fuck - -sorry idiot -- most brain surgeons went to public schools. Most presidents. Most CEOs. Most millionaires. Most Social workers, most doctors.
Dont send your kid to public school then. But vouchers you dumb fuck are not the answer.
Taxfools 2 years ago
What I don't understand is why you have to rant and rave. So we disagree on subjects, Big effing deal. We live in a democracy where people are encouraged to have different opinions. But you're going about this in a very childish way. I'm tired of having stupid arguments with people that can't seem to have a calm conversation and discuss their ideas. You seriously need to reconsider the way you talk to people because you're being very immature and childish.
mikzyspitlik 2 years ago
@Taxfools cause thats the only thing avialable? and actually 70% of doctors go to private schools. And all the people you just mentioned went to collage to learn their proffesion not public school.
Siagos 1 year ago
@mikzyspitlik It's a sad system. We need to:
- start a voucher program, allow public and private schools to compete directly
- get read of teachers unions and pay scales (now good teachers can earn more, and bad ones can go away)
- get rid of the credential-boner of hiring (I never want to hear the argument that firing a teachers means their life is over
- no more "self-esteem" focus. An A is an A, a C is a C.
I'm sure there's more, but this is a good start.
jrsub3 1 year ago 2
The world is catching up with Milton Friedman.
ntn1987 2 years ago
. I won't be arguing with you though. At this juncture, It is pointless. You don't understand because you don't have the eyes and ears and mind to percieve the reality of the spiritual discoveries. When you gain that, you will understand. It is found in the Bible, not Wikipedia. I am not all-knowing or perfect, but I am priviledged to have a creator who is. I already know how the debate ultimately ends. I sincerely wish that you may find the answers too.
ladyosburn 2 years ago
I agree completely. My son was being badly bullied in the first grade. I did not know it started quite so young. I knew that i had to get him out of there, but vouchers where not available. I decided that a good, safe, Christian education was so important to me that i sacrificed anything i could t see that my child was able to go to private school. It is worth it to me to do without so that he can have a good foundation in life. Thankyou so much. Great video!!!!
alvastarr67 2 years ago
You make sense until you mention "Christian education". There is no way vouchers will ever go to a school that teaches creationism or intelligent design and to be honest you paying to send him or her to that school is tantamount to neglect.
Combat52 2 years ago
Funny! I teach at a Christian school that charges approximately $3,400 a year to educate a child. That is around a third of what the public schools in this area are spending per student. The test scores and the overall tracked success rate of students speaks for itself. To suggest that you know that intelligent design/creationism is false is similar to those who guessed that the world was flat... be wrong if you want to. That is typical of a product of inferior education.
ladyosburn 2 years ago
I congragulate you on being able to keep costs down while maintaining good test scores. This is why I think charter schools are an excellent idea.
However, the fact that this has nothing to do with my argument is nothing short of hilarious. My 'inferior education' is on the level of the Ivy League, if not better. When you can find any scientific evidence showing evolution is false let me know. Until then maybe you should look up 'scientific method' on Wikipedia and learn why you're wrong.
Combat52 2 years ago
Ah! Do tell of your wonderful credentials. You say you are perhaps more than Ivy League educated? Interesting point, since that is also relative(my implication of why your scientific method means nothing in the spiritual realm). You can know a lot of things; but if you fail to know the truth, it is all pointless for you anyway. I pray you find it.
ladyosburn 2 years ago
Correct. The scientific method says nothing of the spiritual realm because there is no reason for us to assume there is one. Face it. Other than the fact that a) your parents forced you to attend church and grinded it into you or b) your life sucked and a pastor acted in the place of a psychologist you would never believe in Christianity either. And why would you?
Combat52 2 years ago
If you are right and I have lived a life of spiritual peace and motivation to love and help others, what has been lost? (nothing. It is still gain) If I am right, and I have gained eternal life in heaven with my Holy Father, what have I gained? (everything) The missionary Jim Elliot (who gave his very life for the cause of telling others of Christ) said, "It is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot loose." That is the most logical thing anyone has ever said.
ladyosburn 2 years ago
Pascals Wager! I don't know if you've ever thought about the words you're typing but this one falls flat on it's face. First off, you pretend as if there is no loss from believing in religion. Well actually there is. It's called stem cell research. Second, the claim that if it's true means you will go to heaven is absurd. There is no reason to believe that it would either help or hurt you, so the effects cancel out. This is true for the multitude of religions on this planet. There is no gain.
Combat52 2 years ago
Combat there is tremendous gain from religion -- it's called pussy. Men have learned long ago to fake religious belief to get laid. It works. Men have used religion for power, prestige, and pussy since the start of human kind.
Islam is all about control of the women -- but all religion is like that, to an important degree. Without religion, fake as it is, we would have to use far more force to control women.
Taxfools 2 years ago
Again, you speak of something of which you do not know. There are many phychologist who have denounced their religion of psychology and chosen the truth of God's word to guide them (Two examples are James Dobson and John Rosemond, both of whom are well respected by a large portion of the American population). Again, sad for you...
ladyosburn 2 years ago
Dobson supports I.D. and doesn't believe in global warming. His scientific credentials are meaningless.
Combat52 2 years ago
Again, you are not talking to someone who believes more in the creation. You are talking to someone who believes in the creator. You are a religious man yourself. You believe in the religion of science which also is based on faith. Show me scientific proof (no holes, please) that prooves that there is not a God.
ladyosburn 2 years ago
OK first off that's not how it works. You can't come up with something and then tell me to disprove it. Disprove Zeus causes lightning!
Next I wouldn't say there is no god or creator. Obviously we came from somewhere I just don't want to throw my trust in something that has no proof.
And if you want me to find evidence against a Christian god I would have to say the story of Job is pretty much the giveaway. Or maybe it was that the Bible was written by people high on shrooms.
Combat52 2 years ago
With all due respect science is not a religion precisely because it is not based on faith. It is based on facts that can be objectively demonstrated and testable theories based on those facts. The only "faith" involved is a belief in the evidence of your own senses and the validity of deductive reasoning.
It is entirely possible that a religious viewpoint is in some ways better than scientific one but make no mistake, they are very different ways of trying to understand the world around us.
studentofsmith 2 years ago
LOL, sorry to jump in here, but in this case you would actually be the one saying the world is flat by suggesting creationism...It's just really funny how you got that all mixed up.
mikzyspitlik 2 years ago
Reread, and attempt to understand. Lack of faith is indeed a form of faith itself. Those who believe solely in science are no different. Hebrews 11- "Faith is... the evidence of things not yet seen." Although, if you agree with combat 52, you won't understand.
ladyosburn 2 years ago
I absolutely disagree, but I'm not about to get into a long drawn out discussion with someone over the internet..believe whatever you want to believe.
mikzyspitlik 2 years ago
Hey, thanks! : ) Your permission is what I have been waiting on for all these years. ( :
ladyosburn 2 years ago
I apologize for taking so long.
mikzyspitlik 2 years ago
Comment removed
Taxfools 2 years ago
Your language and your response is sad. I hurt for you. I hope that some day you will find the truth before it is too late.
ladyosburn 2 years ago
Religionists needs to pay for their own schools. Same is true of Science-Peoplez and anyone else who wants voucher-monies aka tax-monies. You peoplez say you hate taxes but all of a sudden you want those tax-money for yourselves. No, no, no, no. That a no-no, hippo-the-crites.
lumpagogo 2 years ago
You are an obvious product of the public system. I pay taxes. If I want to use my money to pay for a quality ed. instead of the farce that is out there now, that doesn't make me a hipocrite. It makes me more thoughtful than you are. I worked in the public system for five years, and I have worked for a private school for seven. There is no comparison. Tax money IS the people's money. I just don't think it should be up to someone else to spend my portion of cash or decide for my own kids : P
ladyosburn 2 years ago
ozzie, not only are you devoid of debating skills, you are an egomaniac, having turned the discussion into a rant about the glories of you. I shouldn't be interested in anything you have to
say if I were I and guess what, I am I.
lumpagogo 2 years ago
Read your own comment - You have no reading comprehension skills and have debated nothing. MY point is made (and, yes, I feel pretty pleased that you are so ignorant that I don't have to work very hard). Thanks.
ladyosburn 2 years ago
I totally disagree with a federal voucher program. Local taxes pay for schools as well as state aid. Get the vouchers from those sources. I don't want to pay for lazy deadbeats in other states...I have enough of them here in NJ.
CircusMaximus09 2 years ago 2
You are rights. Get the feds out of education, lets states provide vouchers.
fzqlcs 2 years ago 3
If they really let the market reign, people would open up little schools all over the place. Rent a little storefront, and set up a school. We would get some nice diversity too, because different sorts of parents would demand different types of schools.
jeffmagic32 2 years ago 5
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No one is stopping jeffy from opening a school but don't expect "vouchers." Vouchers = a good example of Big Govt.
We thought these people are against Big Government.
lumpagogo 2 years ago
in an ideal world, the gov would have nothing to do with schools. But in the America we live in, vouchers are a better option than the current situation.
jeffmagic32 2 years ago 5
Exactly.
TimeWarp66 2 years ago
Do the research.
ladyosburn 2 years ago
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Yeah right, like rich white people let poor blacks in their schools. Ever hear of the "bussing" crises of the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Talk about faulty analogical reasoning.
anorchosocialism 2 years ago
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No one is saying the "Public Schools" are a theocracy; the United States is a combination Corpocracy/Theocracy wherein its citizens are taught at an early age to be Humanistic toward immigrants and against equal treatment of non-human animals. The acquiring of things is taught as essential (capitalism vs the communal way); hence, the Corpocracy.
Given the recent economic trend, we see the Govt. becoming a permanent fixture as a mega-corporation. Vouchers? Why?
lumpagogo 2 years ago
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It would be nice if people actually listened to you. Instead, these people think that they are actually subversive to some kind of liberal hegemony while in fact supporting every existing structure of power. it's crazy especially because all the schools overseas that are doing better than the US's are in countries that have healthy socialist/labour parties like Britain, France, and Germany. Amazing. The problems of capitalism can be fixed w/ more capitalism?
anorchosocialism 2 years ago
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anchor/o-s:
To be sure. We worship both monies and superstitiion here in the U.S., hence the Corpocracy/Theocracy. Our friends who voice their opinions based on what Talk Radio says are also supressing the obvious fact that School Vouchers are nothing more than a re-distributive technique. Yet, we are told by these friends that they despise "re-distribution."
When people hold sacred their own property/homes but no regard for Mother Earth, we see: "Hope Springs Infernal."
lumpagogo 2 years ago
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We do need "change"--radical change. It can't be effected by pure capitalism, actual communism representing only an ideal ,as well. We could survive by combining the two which has to be an accomplice to a new paradigm of priorities--Earth is first: Animal, Tree and Water. Without a profound veneration of the entities which sustain our home, the Third Rock, we are gone.
Earth can't handle another 7-8,000,000,000 of us; its pier will collapse if another 2,000,000,000 are added.
Wake up.
lumpagogo 2 years ago
The problems befalling our public schools are problems of capitalism? Say WHAT?
dudemanbearpig 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
That's right baby capitalism is responsible for our lousy education system and I can support this with hard evidence from various reputable sources both liberal and conservative. First, education is a commodity in our country that makes universities and colleges money. Why would these interests want you to learn anything in high school that you would have to pay to learn at their schools? Consumer capitalism (not producer capitalism) has a vested interest in keeping consumers dumbed down.
anorchosocialism 2 years ago
Sorry, buddy, but there's nothing capitalistic about something provided by the government.
Historically, our educational systems were fine until schmucks like John Dewey succeeded in getting more government involvement in education. The problem, as with our health care and many other things, is TOO MUCH government involvement, not too little.
Look at just about ANYTHING, and you'll see that in only got worse as government got more involved.
dudemanbearpig 2 years ago 3
Ok don't give me a thumbs down just for asking a question cause I'm trying to learn. If you think the schools are better off without government then what is your response to how expensive and messy college is. They are run very well though.
JACOBSEN69 2 years ago
The rapid rise in college tuition directly correlates to increases in pell grants, government subsidized college loans, and tuition assistance.
Essentially, colleges are now operating with a huge amount of insulation from market forces, not quite the monopoly that public schools enjoy but still the market is playing a subsidized role.
In a market, a provider cuts rates to compete. In colleges, rates go up as government casts more money to the 'education' lobby.
YtseWolf7 2 years ago 2
Edit: markets for colleges are not playing a 'subsidized role'. I meant to say a "subdued role". Suppressed would also fit as an apt description
YtseWolf7 2 years ago
If you think capitalism wants its consumers dumbed down, imagine what politicians want their voters to be like.
openyourmind678 2 years ago 19
Great point!
TimeWarp66 2 years ago
The fact that this video only has 3255 views is why the school system is screwed. They've got to at least inject some sort of competitive element for schools to compete for funds based on student performance. That would be a start.
voodooshizzle 3 years ago
Definitely, also big tax breaks for homeschoolers.
norcofreerider604 2 years ago
How about abolishing the income tax?
TimeWarp66 2 years ago 2
Playing devils advocate---put the European schools are public? How then is going private the answer [Hint: European schools are small, just as the states themselves.]
MetaMorphy 3 years ago
European public schools are not nearly as good as private schools. And Europe is mostly white. We have cultural conflicts in our public education system here in America.
TimeWarp66 2 years ago
wonderful idea
hitcb 3 years ago
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wtf is this bull**** i hate you pisciotta thanks for wasting another 10 minutes of my life with this pointless crap this is why old people need to be committed rather than able to force their crap onto students
bustudent11 3 years ago
with all due respect, you are a fucking idiot.
fzqlcs 3 years ago 2