"The problem is that some people will try to cheat and get around it." Fuck you, there's already people doing that, it's called the elite, the corporations, the top 10%. THE PEOPLE WE NEED TO TAX!
There really is no debate, as Americans For Fair Taxation's OWN RESEARCH states this fact: the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI would on average raise the effective taxes (i.e. raise the amount of taxes they pay) of those making from around $15,000 to $150,000 ,and would on average lower the taxes paid by those who make more than $150,000 a year. It is a very bad idea, and would destroy the US economy if enacted. Thankfully it never will even be considered for a vote.
We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. Politicians love visible beneficiaries & invisible victims !
There is no such thing as a good tax. Politicians are leaches, mostly !
Three groups spend other people's money: children, thieves, politicians. All three need supervision.
The "Fair" Tax is basically class warfare, the wealthy declaring war on the middleclasses by raising their effective tax rates. It would, by Americans for Fair Taxation's own admission, raise the effective tax rate of those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year while lowering the effective rate of those making $150,000 and up a year. Source:tinyurl 593htl, page 30 on -pay particular attention to table 13, years 7-8 -- would you be "better off" if your income dropped from $25k to less than $10k?
@sportstuber11 tiny url 593htl It is a link to supporters' own research. The important part to read is page 30 on, "Appendix: Households’ Well-Being under the FairTax", in which they clearly state that according to their research those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year would on average pay more in taxes under the "Fair" Tax. They try and fudge around this with what they call "income mobility", however Table 13 makes it clear-- that mobility is into poverty-- and they call that a positive.
@sportstuber11 Another thing to notice in their research at that link is their "GDP goes up" argument-- it sounds great, until one realizes that pretty much all of the reward of that increase goes to those making more than $150,000 a year, with some going to the poor (the "prebate" partly creates that), while the middleclasses have to work more just to stay even (Table 5, page 26).They claim all this as a benefit for the middleclasses-- " the greater
If consumption of used goods is exempted from taxation it would effectively be a tax cut for the poor and an incentive to recycle. Just a thought. I would say more, but like most people I do not and probably will never understand the current tax system.
the fair tax would screw poor people, they spend 99% of their money on necessities rich spend less than 1%. So a national sales tax is hardly "fair". It's regressive. I think we should lower the corporate tax so jobs can come back to America but lobbyists from big companies enjoy their headquarters in the Caman Islands or wherever.
For proof that the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales Tax Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of those making from about $15k to $150k a year while greatly lowering the taxes of most who make from around $150k up, one only needs to read and understand pages 30 on of one of fairtaxorg's own "research" at tinyurl 593htl. Pay particular attention to table 13-- this is how they claim the middleclass is better off under FT/NASTI, by them FALLING INTO POVERTY LEVEL every few years (see years 7-8).
From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band,with an adj. gross income (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods. Households in the top income cat.,with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income cat. households would lose because the FairTax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them.
@Jamesonhere Point out one thing I do not understand.
Meanwhile, you must not understand that my points are in SUPPORTERS' own "research" at fairtax org. Go to tinyurl 593htl ( fairtaxorg BHI document) and read pages 30 on, paying careful attention to the tables, especially Table13, years 7-8 change. This is their own data ... and it clearly states and shows-- midclasses would lose and pay more under FT/NASTI, while the wealthy would pay less.
There will be no more direct tax! What part of that you people do not get? You work and pay tax and get nothing! You buy something and get what you have bought! Well?
Do we really want to raise taxes on the middle classes (those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year) while lowering the taxes of the wealthy (those making more than $150,000 a year)...
even the SUPPORTING org's data shows that this "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of the middle classes. See tinyurl 593htl, pages 30-on, particularly Table 13 years 7-8 and 15-16 to see one trick they try.
This point is not debateable, as it is in SUPPORTERS' own research:
under the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI, those making from about $15k to $150k a year would pay MOREin federal taxes than they do now, and those making over $150k would pay less than they do now. Do we really want to RAISE THE TAXES of the middle classes so we can LOWER the already very low taxes of the wealthy? This tax is NASTI, and a very bad idea.
The fair tax is progressive on consumption, BUT regressive on income. The poor, and lower classes will get the heavier tax burden because they have less disposable income. In other words, more of their income will be used to pay taxes.
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NASTI" is a farce. It would RAISE the effective tax rate of the middle classes and lower their income and standard-of-living while LOWERING the effective tax rate of the wealthy and increasing their incomes in the double digits-- data showing this is from the SUPPORTERS' site, fairtax org, the Beacon Hill papers. It would shift the tax burden hugely onto the middle classes and pretty much destroy the economy overnight.
@FairTaxisaLie OMG! I have a business and I have a target and base line net profit margin. I have to include the taxes I pay to federal state and city governments as cost of doing business and price my products and cervices. If I don’t I lose money. If I set a net profit goal of $1 million for the year I have to charge my customers for the $0.5 million I would pay in taxes to get it. What ever rate increase the middle class sees would be eclipsed by the added bring home (or “net“) pay.
"What ever rate increase the middle class sees would be eclipsed by the added bring home (or “net“) pay."
False, according to supporting site's own data (go to fair tax org and read Beacon Hill research. I have posted some snippets of the data here. The middle classes would see a huge tax increase-- AGAIN, this is according to supporters' own research and data.
PS-- your own example here disproves the "embedded taxes" myth. Think it through, it is counting the same monies twice
@FairTaxisaLie The price of every product in any retail shelf has an embedded tax component approx 23% and a total tax compliance component of between 29-30%. Take out the embedded tax component and competition will drive the price down 23% and the compliance cost will drop from 6-7% to about 2% then add a sales tax of 24% at retail. You wind up paying about 3% more for the things you want and need but won’t have any federal deductions from your paycheck.
@ymp5000 Here is the mistake most make when they allege "embedded taxes"-- you are lumping in all Federal taxes paid by all people, people who pay AT DIFFERENT RATES (this is important), and then you are claiming they also pay 23% in the price of goods.You're counting the same monies twice--either people are paying the taxes from their salaries OR people are paying the employees taxes when they buy the goods, you cannot claim both. Now, think about the different inc tax rates and understand.
@ymp5000 Another major problem with the "embedded taxes" canard is that the 23% inclusive rate is based on current prices/sales in the USA, and it is 23%inc./30% exc. so that it would bring in the same tax revenues as now. IF prices dropped (they wouldn't but I will pretend with you) the sales tax rate would have to be HIGHER. Let 1S*.23= current amount collected, with S=all "sales". If prices drop20% say, the taxrate would have to be 28.75%i/40%e to raise .23S in taxes (rate*.8S must be .23S).
@FairTaxisaLie I have a business and I have a target and base line net profit margin. I have to include the taxes I pay to federal state and city governments as cost of doing business and price my products and cervices. If I don’t I lose money. If I set a net profit goal of $1 million for the year I have to charge my customers for the $0.5 million I would pay in taxes to get it.
@ymp5000 You can look at it as either your customers paying the taxes in the price they pay OR as you paying your own taxes, but not both-- you cannot count the same monies twice. If you choose to look at it as customers paying the taxes, then you have to say that individual employees pay no taxes. If you look at it the normal way, as each individual paying taxes from his salary, you realize each pays federal taxes at DIFFERENT RATES, and that it in MOST cases is NOWHERE NEAR 23% for a buainess.
@FairTaxisaLie You are leaving out the actual rate of 27% in corporate taxes I paid last year. Accounts Receivable Tax, Building Permit Tax, Capital Gains Tax, Corporate Income Tax, Federal Unemployment Tax, Inventory tax, Property Tax, Telephone federal excise tax, Telephone federal universal service fee tax, Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes,
@FairTaxisaLie Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax, Workers Compensation Tax, these are just some of the 51,000 pages of taxes that get embedded into the purchase price of products.
@FairTaxisaLie That is just life. I charge you for the taxes my company pays not the taxes my employees and I pay, I charge you for our labor rate and if that includes taxes so be it.
@ymp5000 Exactly--you set the labor rate, &THAT sets the rate of taxes for each employee. Most pay much less than 23% in federal taxes from their salaries, &this is NEARLY ALWYAS less than 23% of the price of the goods sold. Example: Joe Bob sells widgets for $1 and sells 100,000 a year. His costs other than salary are $50k. He pays the average fedtaxes for his income bracket, between 5% and 10%. What %age of the cost of goods is taxes? 2.5-5%. MIdclasses fedtaxes run 0%(or less) to about 15%
@FairTaxisaLie Take a single mom that earns $3000 a month and pays $440 in income tax probably has $550 left over after rent/mortgage, car, power, insurance, water, child care, student loan, all the bills are paid. She is going to save maybe $50 and spend every dime of the remainder to live until the next paycheck and $145 of that $500 is eaten up by imbedded taxes bringing her total effective tax rate to about 19.5% or $585 pr/month.
@ymp5000 Your premise is false, a single mom making $3000 a month does not currently pay $440 a month in income taxes on average. She would on average pay more under this foolsih tax. Again, the "embedded taxes" lie is a mathematical falsehood created by Boortz and the millionaire backers of this foolish tax to hide that it is a lowering of taxes for the wealthy and an increase for the middle classes-- again, this is according to their own research, some of which I have posted here, read it.
From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band, with an (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods.Households in the top income category, with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income category households would lose because the Fair Tax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them."
@FairTaxisaLie Under a consumption tax she would have $3000 a month (save for state income if applicable) instead of $2560 she would have $990 after all the bills are paid. She can now save $300 a month and spend the remaining $690 taxed at a rate 24% she would pay $165 a month in federal taxes as opposed to $145. Not to mention that with no federal tax component to the cost of doing business in businesses would be popping up all over the place. Unemployment rate of 3%
@ymp5000 Hopefully when you reread this you will realize the error with the "embedded taxes" claim (hint: if she receives the $3000, the amount you are calling "embedded taxes" is STILL in the price of the goods she produces).
Not to mention that businesses would now be paying a 30% sales tax on all office supplies, etc.
PS-- the cost of goods will not go down, remember you are assuming she receives the whole $3000, even the part previously paid in as fed. tax.
@FairTaxisaLie And with no capital gains tax the U.S. would become the worlds largest tax shelter nation along with the largest economy in the world and the $12 trillion U.S. dollars working in foreign markets comes back home with the absence of the 20% repatriation tax. This system would fund the FedGov at current levels until the economy took off like a rocket.
@ymp5000 Hopefully you realize being a "tax shelter" just means that companies would have a "home office" here rather than in the Caymans. Thus, it creates no jobs. And with a 30% sales tax on-- machinery, gasoline, electricity, rent, office supplies, etc.... well, they sure won't be encouraged to manufacture anything here.
Don't fall for the "embedded tax" canard-- counting the same moneys twice. People pay taxes from SALARY, you cannot pay them again at purchase.There really is no such thing as "embedded" federal taxes, there are embedded SALARIES in the cost of goods. From that SALARY the individual pays their own taxes at (note this, important) DIFFERENT RATES.
You are not paying twice. You buy an item, some of that money pays salaries, some of the salary amounts pay taxes. Not 23% either.
The 2007 effective total Federal tax rate of the bottom four quintiles is 4%-17%. The top 5%'s effective rate is 27.9%. Even allocating cloudy "costs of compliance", you can see that the "Fair"Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NASTI" would raise the taxes of the middle classes and lower the taxes of the wealthy. The data at fairtax org shows this. It is a trick created by very wealthy men to try and lower their own taxes more by shifting the burden to mids.
This is such a great idea! I pray this happens. Think of how many more employers will be willing to hire if this passes and they don't have to pay a payroll tax.
I am still livid that this man didnt become president. He is honest, extremely intelligent, explains everything so even the most simple of Americans (Nancy Pelosi) can understand, is more bipartisan than anyone, and supports the most flawless policies I have seen. This man loses why? Because he believes in Jesus? What the fuck is wrong with this world?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Oh man could you imagine what kinda surplus we'd have with the fair tax and if we cut alot of programs? Shit every american could get a hefty rebate lol
@xtremejohnny69 I would be happy to pay off the national debt. then whatever taxes are collected could be spent on its intended purpose instead of paying interest on debt.
@adiostraitorobama yeah, I ment a currency that's more than just paper. it should be backed by gold. I don't think it would be practical in this globalized world to actually use gold and silver as currency. But we should stop printing paper money when we don't have anythink to back it up with. that's fraud in my eyes
It doesn't matter what kind of tax they give us, they will find a way to game the system into their advantage. Eventually they will decide to tax one item at a higher rate than another, before you know it it's 70% for gas like in England. The best thing to do is to remove all federal taxes completely & assign them a flat percentage paid by each state per quarter. & YES I CAN see a fair tax & an income tax together.
@adiostraitorobama I would try to get rid of: IRS, FDA, DEA, Department of education, war in iraque, guantanamo bay, welfare, minimum wage, sodomy laws, paper money, Department of agroculture, department of energy... Ahhhh! there's too much :(
I am completley in favor of this. There is one thing that scares me though. What is going to happen to all the accountants? Are they all going to be out of work? I don't want that, because i have a lot of friend/family who are accountants.
@HarfangX you are right, there would be all kinds of tricks to get around this tax.
And the goofy thing is, Fairtax would be 60% by real math. Yes, 60%, because the fine print in Fairtax has a MASSIVE tax on city and state government spending. The mention this MASSIVE trillion dollar tax in ONE sentence! So they are at least a trillion dollars shy and they know it.
Flat tax on income is the reason Athens failed. Progressive taxation has been the only form of income tax the United States has ever had for a reason. It's a reason we grew the strongest middle class in the history of all civilization.
In 1976, 99% of us had 80% of American wealth, today 99% of us have 53% of all wealth. In the same time we have made our taxation system less progressive and more regressive.
@talijum people like you... who know what its really like need to speak out against this demonic system.(not that you aren't)
what liberal don't seem to understand is that companies will move to lower tax countries (like lets say china or india) if you tax and regulate them too much.
oh and "FYI" to all the socialists out there....you can't tax over 100%
I'm sorry, the prebate idea was not presented in this video. As far as tax shelters go, 22.5% of 1 million is a lot of money to be able to spend on shipping.
This tax would apply to internet sales and send those jobs overseas as that market dries up.
langwitz, your Poor person, IF he spends all $24K, winds up paying $448.50 total sales tax after receiving his $5,072 prebate for the year (it's paid monthly @ $423). That tax is 1.8% of his $24K.
Your Millionaire, IF he spends all $1 Mil winds up paying $224,928.00 total sales tax after his $5,072 prebate for the year . That is 22.5% of his $1 Million.
He can't hire any tax lawyers or CPAs or buy tax favors from the govt, either!
I am FOR this FairTax! If the poor person lives in a household with 4 legal residents, he'll receive $423 every mo.
That "prebate" pmt returns all the sales taxes to us for all our purchases up to the Fed Poverty Level. (The FPL for 4 is $22,050 this yr; times 23% sales tax rate = $5,072/yr, $423/mo) That's 21.13% of the poor person's income and 0.5% of the millionaire's.
It removes all corp taxes from prices of everything we buy AND gives us JOBS!!
If both a poor person and a rich person buys a $2000 item, and the poor person makes $24,000 a year and the rich person makes $1,000,000, let's say the tax is 23% of 2000, or 460. That's 1.9% of the poor person's yearly income and 0.046% of the rich person's yearly income. Still for this tax?
What do you suppose the wealthy do with their money? Do you think they just stack it up and count it making "muah haha" sounds? The more money people have, the more they spend, but their prebate is the same size as the lower incomes, so as a percentage of their expenses, they pay more. They pay nothing on money they don't spend, but so what? That money will eventually go into either investing (capital for jobs) or spending (taxed at 23%). I'm for this tax.
@oterj0 Nothing requires any person to use or invest in the American market. If the cost of shipping is less than the cost of the tax, people will take advantage of it. Rich people will have more capital available to them to make this process easier. There's very little stopping people (especially in the New England and Seattle areas) from buying from Canada, or people in SoCal/TX from buying in Mexico. Finally, this will increase internet sales costs because tax + shipping is more than now.
I grant you that, but nothing requires anyone earn money in the US either. Is it easier for rich people to move their income earning identity offshore or make all their purchases offshore? Surely people won't drive across the border for groceries, perhaps for yacht, but not for the everday commodities. I'd argue it's easier to incorporate and move one's earnings to another jurisdiction. If we call it a wash, what makes more sense, the 10,000+ page income tax code or the FairTax?
Competition will cause people to purchase American goods instead of goods from another country because American goods will have more value than the foreign goods. Every item currently has an embedded 22% worth of taxes passed onto the consumer within the price. What the fair tax really does is takes away the government control that is embedded in the current tax system and spreads the share of cost to every consumer regardless of their job or income.
@langwiz7 The rich person is going to buy more stuff because of having more money. Besides a car, why would a person making $24K be spending $2,000 on something?
@enterjcs "Fair" taxation is all about percentage of income vs price of living at a certain standard. The main reason why the rich are taxed more than the poor is because they can more easily maintain their standard of living. Thus it doesn't matter what exactly the $2000 was spent on. This tax without the pre-bate would severely hurt the poor. It would convince the rich to import goods (since it is possible they would not pay the tax this way).
@enterjcs If you buy a car currently their is a embedded tax included in the price of the car. Under the Fair Tax the embedded tax is removed. On Average a embedded tax is 22% of a product's cost that you buy.
That cost is passed to you currently. So your paiding just alittle bit more under the Fair Tax.
The FairTax will raise the standard of living for all current tax payers. The amount we each pay will DROP because MORE people will be paying the total revenue neutral amount, including illegals and criminals. Also, prices will likely drop because companies will no longer need to pay tax experts and lawyers. This "compliance cost" right now amounts to $900 per person on average. Granted, SOME? people will benefit more than others, but there will be no loosers with the FairTax.
@prwilli75 If U believe the fairtax is good for America & that UR capable of sharing with another person why the fairtax will B good for America. Then eventually we will have enough grassroots support to make it happen.
The tax industry does not create a product or service people actually want. It is created out of bloated impossible to understand tax code that drains the economy, wasting over 7.4 billion hours that we could spending with our families friends or building our businesses.
@urgener So true. The Congressional Budget Office estimate in 2007 that implementing the FairTax would put over $600 BILLION dollars, now used to comply with the current tax code, back into the economy. That's $600 BILLION dollars we don't need to spend.
Yeah! We'll Start producing stuff("made in America" brand) just as soon as we start producing stuff(Consumers buy from america with money-alot of people recieve from manufacturing jobs)
We not only want the Fair Tax, we NEED the Fair Tax and we need it STAT. If you haven't read The Fair Tax Book, it's a must read. Fascinating, provocative, easy read, I have to caution you that some things you read about our current code will make your blood boil; however, the fact that HR 25, the Fair Tax Act exists gives us much hope!!
i think fair tax is a great policy, the other taxes are keeping people poor and are destroying the nation by increasing the the national debt in accordance to our individual family debt.
@carnypimp You may not realize that we pay taxes on every single thing we buy. Think food is expempt? Nope. Imbedded in the cost of every single item you buy is 22% corporate tax and compliance expense. You don't even want to know the billions we spend annually just in compliance costs. You and I pay.
@ziglet53 That not the point untill I get a JOB that pays more than 40,000 a year. I deserve my entitlements not taking away and forcing me to spend more than I can afford to spend just to get a refund at the end of the year. That is my fear.
@carnypimp Under Fair Tax, you wouldn't be forced to spend any more than you do now. Fair Tax doesn't affect "entitlements" whatsoever. It has nothing to do with them. Not only that, the monthly prebate would increase your monthly income at least $200.+ what you're taking home now. No losers w/ Fair Tax.
The prebate would go to you whether you spend money or not. It functions similar to the earned income tax credit, but without all the complexity of administering the EITC.
@oterj0 As long as I get around the same return im fine. But 22.5 I wont buy food no more. My taxes from my check are 8% my house tax is 1.5% of 175K you want me to pay 22.5% to buy stuff. Does that not sound nuts?
@attemptingtobehumble People who use this argument (not necessarily you) don't understand how the FairTax would work. This would really be an unnecessary complication as the portion of purchases for essential items such as food, clothing, medicine, shelter, have the tax refunded to everyone by a PREBATE system. Read The FairTax Book and it will really make sense.
@carnypimp Imbedded taxes and related expenses is present in every single new item you purchase, groceries or otherwise. The Fair Tax prebate gives that money back to you. Today's system merely rips you off.
Have you read their "research" ? Farce tax "research" BEGINS with the assumption Fairtax is a magic pony that shits gold, then tells how great it will be to have all that gold. They don't dare to any "real research," for the same reason their "calculator" does not ask a single question about your spending --- because THEY know its pure bullshit. That's right, Fairtax leaders KNOW their own plan is a farce, which is why they have avoided hearings under oath for 13 years.
Fair tax/Round tax is never going to happen. You'd have to raise the taxes of about 70% of the population. (The people who elect you) Even though they probably won't have a job, because they run their companies out of business... They want the rich taxed.
The FAIR tax is only an improvement if the 16th Amendment is repealed. Otherwise the door is left open for the income tax to come back in, and it inevitably will if you leave that option open for politicians.
@joesub . Fairtax is a FUCKING FARCE., Its own leaders KNOW its a fucking farce, you fucking idiot.
How the FUCK can all cities, and counties, and states, pay HUGE fucking sales taxes on their spending? Where will they get the money?
Do you even fucking grasp that not just PEOPLE pay this tax -- Fairtax pretends the city governments will ALL pay it on ALL their spending. ALL state government too. Do you grasp how fucking insane that is you fucking gullible idiot sheep?
@sermadness Serm -- Fairtax is a fucking giant farce. It's own leaders know it - they have avoided hearings under oath for 13 years. There is NO -- absolutely NO research for it. The "research" is by a public relations firm PAID to hawk this shit. Its total nonsense.
Go see their goofy "calculator" which was supposed to "prove" how great it would be. yet they don't ask a SINGLE question about your consumption - what you plan to buy. But that's the ONLY thing you are taxed on.
@sermadness I kid you not, Fairtax is s SO fucking goofy, that it's own leaders know full well it's a farce. Literally a farce. They dare not have a hearing under oath, they would shit their own pants.
They pretend they can just tax the GOVERNMENT -- city, county, state, federal, spending. Not just tax people -- tax the GOVERNMENT. Yes -- its that goofy. And they know it. They had to pretend that shit to get their "math" to "work"
I just makes way too much sense. The healthier the economy, the more revenue generated for the government. The reason why government doesn't want this is because they lose control of us. Corporation success and consumerism are things the government is not willing to subject itself too. Politicians are power hungry idiots that think the rest of us don't know the massive schemes they involve themselves in. If they are so concerned with the economy, this would have been passed long ago.
Went to PassFairTax(dot)com and signed the petition and I donated to Michael Reagan and all those other supporters in order to get the FairTax passed. These are true Americans!
Consider this. I make $1mm. You make $100m. I'm chintzy. Youre a spender. We both buy $10m in goods and services. We pay ***the exact tax***. And the local Ace Hardware guy sees no addtnl income regardless of our respective income. But if you pay a flat tax, then Mr Chintzy will spend regardless of the incremental tax I pay on consumption. And the Ace Hardware man may make more money. And pay more taxes.
@jeremywomackdotcom Also, foreigners who visit the U.S. including illegal imigrants would be subject to the tax which brings in more revenue for the government... I just don't see why Washington can't see the benefits. Corporations will start manufacturing on U.S. soil again and really supercharge the economy. It is an unbeatable system.
@up2trix I would rather have Ron Paul as president, though I'll take Huckabee as a second choice. Fuck Sarah Palin though. I wish people would stop idolizing that idiot, it makes the rest of the common sense conservatives look bad.
Republicans are great at selling poor people ideas that will keep them poor while making the rich richer. They make poor people think that THEY'RE the ones who will reap the benefit. Anyone remember "trickle down economics?" They were basically telling the lower class that they were pissing on them, and the poor people bought it hook, line, and sinker.
@FuckItSnoopy - I would suggest that you read the FairTax book. If there's ever a chance of having a truly "fair" tax system, the FairTax is it. It totally un-taxes anyone living beneath the poverty level. If you hate wealthy people, think of this... under the FairTax the wealthy would pay more in federal taxes than any other class. The FairTax doesn't reward or punish classes like the current system does. If you do the math, you'll love it.
@FuckItSnoopy Oh like welfare? Or the minimum wage? Go read a book guy, and get some original thoughts floating around in that head of yours. The fact of the matter is things like welfare incentivize failure, and punish success. Minimum wage causes unemployment, and reduced purchasing power for everyone. Most of which are the POOR, and MIDDLE classes. Two things Democrats stand for right?
You could never get a lib to wrap their head around how price increases with the min wage actually hurt the very people they purport to help. They just don't understand that only teenagers make min wage and the resulting price increases disproportionately affect the lower incomes (those just above min). I think it just requires too much brainpower.
@oterj0 The min does effect that but the raise of minum wage seems to all be the answer for idiots. Has nothing to do with libs most states raised minimum wage where Republican ran and was done before Obama was elected. So I dont get where it's a liberal thing. Sorry to be an ass but as a proud democrat im not going to stand by blaming my party for the mistakes of both the right and left.
I think that's fair. At the core, it's about the voters. They just don't understand cause and effect. They think raising people's wages doesn't create dislocations that undue the perceived good of raising someone's wages. However, the impact is relatively small, so if I were a Republican legislator, I'd vote for min wage increase knowing it's popular even if it's ultimately bad, because the impact is small. The voters are really the problem.
The income tax is bad because it was was conceived utterly in class hatred.
It employs the communist principle of taking from each according to his accumulation of the fruits of his labor, and giving to others according to their needs, regardless of weather or not those needs are the result of indolence, or the lack of pride, self respect, personal dignity, or other attributes of
Pray for a miracle, because that's what it is going to take to correct the mess our country is in. Republicans need to start embracing conservative principles with open arms. The electorate(We The People) must stop looking to government for all the answers to our every want and need. Independence away from government is the solution. Big government needs to be disolved. Fat chance of that happening, but it's the only solution. Workers Unions must also be put to rest.
HAHA Listen @ 6:30 "imagine a congress so stupid they would try to impose another income tax after the fair tax..."
Well that would be the Democrat controled congress with Yobama at the helm. They just passed the Healthcare bill which includes an increase in payroll (income) taxes. Democrats love to tax and be in control.
Just go back to the way it was before the IRS and FED were created!! All they have to do is follow the original tax system our forefathers original created!! GET RID OF THE IRS and THE FED!!
The first legislation that I will fight to see passed: the Fair Tax Plan, HR 25. We've got return our beloved nation to propserity. Fair Tax WILL do it.
It's so obvious to see which ones who comment, who have not read the books or researched at all, what the FairTax really is, how it works and how fantastic it would be for every single American and the whole Nation's economy. So for those who want to comment about the FairTax intelligently, read and study it 1st., then if you can't see the value of it, you're either just plain dense or one who does'nt want to pay any taxes yourself, because you are a selfish user rather than a caring producer...
Tax will always be a way to defraud the deceived ones. Throughout history only slaves paid tax on labor or property. Our resources should and plenty to pay for our services but we are rob of them buy the corporations. The all planet is in debt, to whom? is the question. Venus! Democracy= dictatorship by the bankster. Only have to deceive 50+1% of the numb ones and they can dictate all. In a world where greed = success and entertainment is more sooth then history what can be expected?
Under the fairtax we MIGHT be paying 5% more than we are now at retail but we wont be paying that $1800 a month and my family of 4 would be getting a prebate of $537 a month, plus we all go back to work! This is a no brainer! Go to ONLINETAXREVOLT decimal point COM.
Fairtax pretends to tax the GOVERNMENT. Don't believe me? Read the books.
"The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR taxpayer." Page 148, The Fairtax Book.
"Fairtax treats all governments alike ---- federal state and local --- as individual consumers.......under our plan, all government purchases of LABOR, supplies, and services, would be subject to the fairtax."
Family of 4 @ $83200 files 0 and pays $21600. Gets back $3500 return for an effective tax rate of 21.75% of income. On top of that you have 20 to 22% (depending) on average imbedded tax at retail. In this system those of us who actually pay taxes are double taxed. X% of income and up to 22% of consumption.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
They would ALL figure it out dumb fuck - even dumb fucks like YOU would figure it out -- if they ever had a hearing under oath dumb fuck.
Fairtax is a FARCE you dumb fuck - it's own leaders KNOW it's a farce dumb fuck. They are not trying to pass their OWN bill dumb fuck -- because it's goofy as fucking hell.
Got that dumb fuck -- this is NOT a serious plan -- it's a FUCKING
Why didn't they nominate him instead of Mccain??
H1TMANactual 3 weeks ago
NoTaxUntilDeath [dot] com will fix and Save Social Security and eliminate the need for the Fair Tax or a national sales tax.
Niftytax 1 month ago
This is the way to go!
biweeklyinfo 2 months ago
We need to get the Occupy Wall Street people on board with the FairTax
RailsTube 3 months ago
@RailsTube I agree!
sphinxscu2 3 months ago
"The problem is that some people will try to cheat and get around it." Fuck you, there's already people doing that, it's called the elite, the corporations, the top 10%. THE PEOPLE WE NEED TO TAX!
Nervousification 3 months ago
There really is no debate, as Americans For Fair Taxation's OWN RESEARCH states this fact: the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI would on average raise the effective taxes (i.e. raise the amount of taxes they pay) of those making from around $15,000 to $150,000 ,and would on average lower the taxes paid by those who make more than $150,000 a year. It is a very bad idea, and would destroy the US economy if enacted. Thankfully it never will even be considered for a vote.
Diskatop 3 months ago 4
if U haven't heard it , U should ...
We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. Politicians love visible beneficiaries & invisible victims !
There is no such thing as a good tax. Politicians are leaches, mostly !
Three groups spend other people's money: children, thieves, politicians. All three need supervision.
onstageagain 5 months ago
The "Fair" Tax is basically class warfare, the wealthy declaring war on the middleclasses by raising their effective tax rates. It would, by Americans for Fair Taxation's own admission, raise the effective tax rate of those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year while lowering the effective rate of those making $150,000 and up a year. Source:tinyurl 593htl, page 30 on -pay particular attention to table 13, years 7-8 -- would you be "better off" if your income dropped from $25k to less than $10k?
FairTaxisaLie 5 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie Could I get that link again. I'm in the process of doing in depth research on the good and bad of the fair tax.
sportstuber11 1 month ago
@sportstuber11 tiny url 593htl It is a link to supporters' own research. The important part to read is page 30 on, "Appendix: Households’ Well-Being under the FairTax", in which they clearly state that according to their research those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year would on average pay more in taxes under the "Fair" Tax. They try and fudge around this with what they call "income mobility", however Table 13 makes it clear-- that mobility is into poverty-- and they call that a positive.
FairTaxisaLie 1 month ago
@sportstuber11 Another thing to notice in their research at that link is their "GDP goes up" argument-- it sounds great, until one realizes that pretty much all of the reward of that increase goes to those making more than $150,000 a year, with some going to the poor (the "prebate" partly creates that), while the middleclasses have to work more just to stay even (Table 5, page 26).They claim all this as a benefit for the middleclasses-- " the greater
incentive to work would cut into leisure."
FairTaxisaLie 1 month ago
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joelibermann 6 months ago
If consumption of used goods is exempted from taxation it would effectively be a tax cut for the poor and an incentive to recycle. Just a thought. I would say more, but like most people I do not and probably will never understand the current tax system.
Fair Tax? Perhaps.
voltairinedecleyre66 6 months ago
@voltairinedecleyre66
the fair tax would screw poor people, they spend 99% of their money on necessities rich spend less than 1%. So a national sales tax is hardly "fair". It's regressive. I think we should lower the corporate tax so jobs can come back to America but lobbyists from big companies enjoy their headquarters in the Caman Islands or wherever.
joelibermann 6 months ago
More ignorance. You must go to Fairtax.org and read it all first then come back and make an educated comment.
utsandstone 5 months ago
@joelibermann You are dead wrong it untaxes the poor and all people on basic neccesities via the prebate.
jamesthompson7979 4 months ago
@voltairinedecleyre66 It is in fact a tax only on new goods and services. Buy a used car or previously owned home - no Fair Tax.
jamesthompson7979 4 months ago
@politicsLove the poor along with everyone else will essentially not pay the tax on necessities
brighjh 6 months ago
For proof that the "Fair Tax" aka National Sales Tax Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of those making from about $15k to $150k a year while greatly lowering the taxes of most who make from around $150k up, one only needs to read and understand pages 30 on of one of fairtaxorg's own "research" at tinyurl 593htl. Pay particular attention to table 13-- this is how they claim the middleclass is better off under FT/NASTI, by them FALLING INTO POVERTY LEVEL every few years (see years 7-8).
FairTaxisaLie 6 months ago
From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band,with an adj. gross income (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods. Households in the top income cat.,with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income cat. households would lose because the FairTax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them.
FairTaxisaLie 7 months ago
Fairtaxisalie you are not understanding the facts, bottom line.
Jamesonhere 7 months ago
@Jamesonhere Point out one thing I do not understand.
Meanwhile, you must not understand that my points are in SUPPORTERS' own "research" at fairtax org. Go to tinyurl 593htl ( fairtaxorg BHI document) and read pages 30 on, paying careful attention to the tables, especially Table13, years 7-8 change. This is their own data ... and it clearly states and shows-- midclasses would lose and pay more under FT/NASTI, while the wealthy would pay less.
Don't take my word for it, go read it.
FairTaxisaLie 7 months ago
There will be no more direct tax! What part of that you people do not get? You work and pay tax and get nothing! You buy something and get what you have bought! Well?
Jamesonhere 7 months ago
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Do we really want to raise taxes on the middle classes (those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year) while lowering the taxes of the wealthy (those making more than $150,000 a year)...
even the SUPPORTING org's data shows that this "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI would raise the taxes of the middle classes. See tinyurl 593htl, pages 30-on, particularly Table 13 years 7-8 and 15-16 to see one trick they try.
FairTaxisaLie 7 months ago
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This point is not debateable, as it is in SUPPORTERS' own research:
under the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI, those making from about $15k to $150k a year would pay MOREin federal taxes than they do now, and those making over $150k would pay less than they do now. Do we really want to RAISE THE TAXES of the middle classes so we can LOWER the already very low taxes of the wealthy? This tax is NASTI, and a very bad idea.
Diskatop 7 months ago
The fair tax is progressive on consumption, BUT regressive on income. The poor, and lower classes will get the heavier tax burden because they have less disposable income. In other words, more of their income will be used to pay taxes.
PoliticsILove 8 months ago
@PoliticsILove Do some research into the prebate with the fairtax.
skeletor196 8 months ago
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frankiegmh 8 months ago
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NASTI" is a farce. It would RAISE the effective tax rate of the middle classes and lower their income and standard-of-living while LOWERING the effective tax rate of the wealthy and increasing their incomes in the double digits-- data showing this is from the SUPPORTERS' site, fairtax org, the Beacon Hill papers. It would shift the tax burden hugely onto the middle classes and pretty much destroy the economy overnight.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie OMG! I have a business and I have a target and base line net profit margin. I have to include the taxes I pay to federal state and city governments as cost of doing business and price my products and cervices. If I don’t I lose money. If I set a net profit goal of $1 million for the year I have to charge my customers for the $0.5 million I would pay in taxes to get it. What ever rate increase the middle class sees would be eclipsed by the added bring home (or “net“) pay.
ymp5000 8 months ago
@ymp5000
"What ever rate increase the middle class sees would be eclipsed by the added bring home (or “net“) pay."
False, according to supporting site's own data (go to fair tax org and read Beacon Hill research. I have posted some snippets of the data here. The middle classes would see a huge tax increase-- AGAIN, this is according to supporters' own research and data.
PS-- your own example here disproves the "embedded taxes" myth. Think it through, it is counting the same monies twice
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie The price of every product in any retail shelf has an embedded tax component approx 23% and a total tax compliance component of between 29-30%. Take out the embedded tax component and competition will drive the price down 23% and the compliance cost will drop from 6-7% to about 2% then add a sales tax of 24% at retail. You wind up paying about 3% more for the things you want and need but won’t have any federal deductions from your paycheck.
ymp5000 8 months ago
@ymp5000 Here is the mistake most make when they allege "embedded taxes"-- you are lumping in all Federal taxes paid by all people, people who pay AT DIFFERENT RATES (this is important), and then you are claiming they also pay 23% in the price of goods.You're counting the same monies twice--either people are paying the taxes from their salaries OR people are paying the employees taxes when they buy the goods, you cannot claim both. Now, think about the different inc tax rates and understand.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@ymp5000 Another major problem with the "embedded taxes" canard is that the 23% inclusive rate is based on current prices/sales in the USA, and it is 23%inc./30% exc. so that it would bring in the same tax revenues as now. IF prices dropped (they wouldn't but I will pretend with you) the sales tax rate would have to be HIGHER. Let 1S*.23= current amount collected, with S=all "sales". If prices drop20% say, the taxrate would have to be 28.75%i/40%e to raise .23S in taxes (rate*.8S must be .23S).
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie I have a business and I have a target and base line net profit margin. I have to include the taxes I pay to federal state and city governments as cost of doing business and price my products and cervices. If I don’t I lose money. If I set a net profit goal of $1 million for the year I have to charge my customers for the $0.5 million I would pay in taxes to get it.
ymp5000 8 months ago
@ymp5000 You can look at it as either your customers paying the taxes in the price they pay OR as you paying your own taxes, but not both-- you cannot count the same monies twice. If you choose to look at it as customers paying the taxes, then you have to say that individual employees pay no taxes. If you look at it the normal way, as each individual paying taxes from his salary, you realize each pays federal taxes at DIFFERENT RATES, and that it in MOST cases is NOWHERE NEAR 23% for a buainess.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie You are leaving out the actual rate of 27% in corporate taxes I paid last year. Accounts Receivable Tax, Building Permit Tax, Capital Gains Tax, Corporate Income Tax, Federal Unemployment Tax, Inventory tax, Property Tax, Telephone federal excise tax, Telephone federal universal service fee tax, Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes,
ymp5000 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax, Workers Compensation Tax, these are just some of the 51,000 pages of taxes that get embedded into the purchase price of products.
ymp5000 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie That is just life. I charge you for the taxes my company pays not the taxes my employees and I pay, I charge you for our labor rate and if that includes taxes so be it.
ymp5000 8 months ago
@ymp5000 Exactly--you set the labor rate, &THAT sets the rate of taxes for each employee. Most pay much less than 23% in federal taxes from their salaries, &this is NEARLY ALWYAS less than 23% of the price of the goods sold. Example: Joe Bob sells widgets for $1 and sells 100,000 a year. His costs other than salary are $50k. He pays the average fedtaxes for his income bracket, between 5% and 10%. What %age of the cost of goods is taxes? 2.5-5%. MIdclasses fedtaxes run 0%(or less) to about 15%
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie Take a single mom that earns $3000 a month and pays $440 in income tax probably has $550 left over after rent/mortgage, car, power, insurance, water, child care, student loan, all the bills are paid. She is going to save maybe $50 and spend every dime of the remainder to live until the next paycheck and $145 of that $500 is eaten up by imbedded taxes bringing her total effective tax rate to about 19.5% or $585 pr/month.
ymp5000 8 months ago
@ymp5000 Your premise is false, a single mom making $3000 a month does not currently pay $440 a month in income taxes on average. She would on average pay more under this foolsih tax. Again, the "embedded taxes" lie is a mathematical falsehood created by Boortz and the millionaire backers of this foolish tax to hide that it is a lowering of taxes for the wealthy and an increase for the middle classes-- again, this is according to their own research, some of which I have posted here, read it.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band, with an (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods.Households in the top income category, with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income category households would lose because the Fair Tax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them."
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie Under a consumption tax she would have $3000 a month (save for state income if applicable) instead of $2560 she would have $990 after all the bills are paid. She can now save $300 a month and spend the remaining $690 taxed at a rate 24% she would pay $165 a month in federal taxes as opposed to $145. Not to mention that with no federal tax component to the cost of doing business in businesses would be popping up all over the place. Unemployment rate of 3%
ymp5000 8 months ago
@ymp5000 Hopefully when you reread this you will realize the error with the "embedded taxes" claim (hint: if she receives the $3000, the amount you are calling "embedded taxes" is STILL in the price of the goods she produces).
Not to mention that businesses would now be paying a 30% sales tax on all office supplies, etc.
PS-- the cost of goods will not go down, remember you are assuming she receives the whole $3000, even the part previously paid in as fed. tax.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie And with no capital gains tax the U.S. would become the worlds largest tax shelter nation along with the largest economy in the world and the $12 trillion U.S. dollars working in foreign markets comes back home with the absence of the 20% repatriation tax. This system would fund the FedGov at current levels until the economy took off like a rocket.
ymp5000 8 months ago
@ymp5000 Hopefully you realize being a "tax shelter" just means that companies would have a "home office" here rather than in the Caymans. Thus, it creates no jobs. And with a 30% sales tax on-- machinery, gasoline, electricity, rent, office supplies, etc.... well, they sure won't be encouraged to manufacture anything here.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
And I havent even mentioned the prebate.
ymp5000 8 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie Thank you! I completely agree!!!!
PoliticsILove 8 months ago
Don't fall for the "embedded tax" canard-- counting the same moneys twice. People pay taxes from SALARY, you cannot pay them again at purchase.There really is no such thing as "embedded" federal taxes, there are embedded SALARIES in the cost of goods. From that SALARY the individual pays their own taxes at (note this, important) DIFFERENT RATES.
You are not paying twice. You buy an item, some of that money pays salaries, some of the salary amounts pay taxes. Not 23% either.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
The 2007 effective total Federal tax rate of the bottom four quintiles is 4%-17%. The top 5%'s effective rate is 27.9%. Even allocating cloudy "costs of compliance", you can see that the "Fair"Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka "NASTI" would raise the taxes of the middle classes and lower the taxes of the wealthy. The data at fairtax org shows this. It is a trick created by very wealthy men to try and lower their own taxes more by shifting the burden to mids.
FairTaxisaLie 8 months ago
This is such a great idea! I pray this happens. Think of how many more employers will be willing to hire if this passes and they don't have to pay a payroll tax.
nickfranky 8 months ago
I hope he runs for pres
mvallin 8 months ago
eloquent
tjieff 9 months ago
Yeah, fascinating. One small problem.....It doesn't work!
carlajonesonline 9 months ago
@carlajonesonline Really, have you tied it? Let's hear your idea!
2112fastjazz 9 months ago
@carlajonesonline As far as I know, no country has tried the FairTax as proposed in HR:25. Where do you get your information?
gliderguy 8 months ago
fair tax...Fair Tax...FAIR TAX!!!
stopstickers 9 months ago
I am still livid that this man didnt become president. He is honest, extremely intelligent, explains everything so even the most simple of Americans (Nancy Pelosi) can understand, is more bipartisan than anyone, and supports the most flawless policies I have seen. This man loses why? Because he believes in Jesus? What the fuck is wrong with this world?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Jaytee1227 9 months ago
Taxation = Legalize Extortion
"Pay (y)our taxes or we will find you and punish you." -IRS
There is no such thing as a "fair" tax.
healthhavencom 9 months ago
This will never happen until we get rid of the Federal Reserve.
attemptingtobehumble 10 months ago
@attemptingtobehumble Don't forget the 16th amendment. That must go also.
im1greatman 4 months ago
just because products would cost less to make doesn't mean the businesses would lower the price, yeah right
jeff30458 10 months ago
Oh man could you imagine what kinda surplus we'd have with the fair tax and if we cut alot of programs? Shit every american could get a hefty rebate lol
xtremejohnny69 10 months ago
@xtremejohnny69 I would be happy to pay off the national debt. then whatever taxes are collected could be spent on its intended purpose instead of paying interest on debt.
dtvgmedia 10 months ago
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David12King 11 months ago
Nice job on the video looks good. When you have time come visit my channel!
simplechocolatediet 11 months ago
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Nice job on the video looks good. When you have time come visit my channel!
FatReleaseSystem 11 months ago
@adiostraitorobama yeah, I ment a currency that's more than just paper. it should be backed by gold. I don't think it would be practical in this globalized world to actually use gold and silver as currency. But we should stop printing paper money when we don't have anythink to back it up with. that's fraud in my eyes
Chaaarge 11 months ago
It doesn't matter what kind of tax they give us, they will find a way to game the system into their advantage. Eventually they will decide to tax one item at a higher rate than another, before you know it it's 70% for gas like in England. The best thing to do is to remove all federal taxes completely & assign them a flat percentage paid by each state per quarter. & YES I CAN see a fair tax & an income tax together.
KenMacMillan 11 months ago
@adiostraitorobama I would try to get rid of: IRS, FDA, DEA, Department of education, war in iraque, guantanamo bay, welfare, minimum wage, sodomy laws, paper money, Department of agroculture, department of energy... Ahhhh! there's too much :(
Chaaarge 11 months ago
I am completley in favor of this. There is one thing that scares me though. What is going to happen to all the accountants? Are they all going to be out of work? I don't want that, because i have a lot of friend/family who are accountants.
followerofchrist38 11 months ago
I'm Canadian. I have a High School friends who works for a company that buys cars here and ships em to the U.S. to customers trying to save on taxes
People would just find ways to buy stuff tax free... doing exchanges of goods without actual sales...
It's way easier to figure out how much someone gets paid than finding how much and where they spend.
HarfangX 1 year ago
@HarfangX you are right, there would be all kinds of tricks to get around this tax.
And the goofy thing is, Fairtax would be 60% by real math. Yes, 60%, because the fine print in Fairtax has a MASSIVE tax on city and state government spending. The mention this MASSIVE trillion dollar tax in ONE sentence! So they are at least a trillion dollars shy and they know it.
Google Fairtax fine print.
ItchMyFoot 1 year ago
This guy is an idiot, he only puts money in the pockets of his billionaire campaign sponsors.
doooobies332 1 year ago
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Flat tax on income is the reason Athens failed. Progressive taxation has been the only form of income tax the United States has ever had for a reason. It's a reason we grew the strongest middle class in the history of all civilization.
In 1976, 99% of us had 80% of American wealth, today 99% of us have 53% of all wealth. In the same time we have made our taxation system less progressive and more regressive.
doooobies332 1 year ago
This man is so smart. I come from socialist country and will fight this backward system in my new country. Down with socialism.
talijum 1 year ago 10
@talijum people like you... who know what its really like need to speak out against this demonic system.(not that you aren't)
what liberal don't seem to understand is that companies will move to lower tax countries (like lets say china or india) if you tax and regulate them too much.
oh and "FYI" to all the socialists out there....you can't tax over 100%
lol
creptoin1 9 months ago
I hope he runs in 2012!
enterjcs 1 year ago
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carnypimp 1 year ago
6 people are dyslexic and missed the like button.
TheMethadoneParty 1 year ago
was in the garden of eden, he was the snake.
Mybookwork 1 year ago
I LOVE THIS MAN !!!! HUCKABEE 2012 !!!!
Rubykg 1 year ago
I'm sorry, the prebate idea was not presented in this video. As far as tax shelters go, 22.5% of 1 million is a lot of money to be able to spend on shipping.
This tax would apply to internet sales and send those jobs overseas as that market dries up.
langwiz7 1 year ago
langwitz, your Poor person, IF he spends all $24K, winds up paying $448.50 total sales tax after receiving his $5,072 prebate for the year (it's paid monthly @ $423). That tax is 1.8% of his $24K.
Your Millionaire, IF he spends all $1 Mil winds up paying $224,928.00 total sales tax after his $5,072 prebate for the year . That is 22.5% of his $1 Million.
He can't hire any tax lawyers or CPAs or buy tax favors from the govt, either!
I am STILL for this FairTax!!! How 'bout you!?
mrchamber 1 year ago
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mrchamber 1 year ago
I am FOR this FairTax! If the poor person lives in a household with 4 legal residents, he'll receive $423 every mo.
That "prebate" pmt returns all the sales taxes to us for all our purchases up to the Fed Poverty Level. (The FPL for 4 is $22,050 this yr; times 23% sales tax rate = $5,072/yr, $423/mo) That's 21.13% of the poor person's income and 0.5% of the millionaire's.
It removes all corp taxes from prices of everything we buy AND gives us JOBS!!
YEP! I am FOR it!!
mrchamber 1 year ago
If both a poor person and a rich person buys a $2000 item, and the poor person makes $24,000 a year and the rich person makes $1,000,000, let's say the tax is 23% of 2000, or 460. That's 1.9% of the poor person's yearly income and 0.046% of the rich person's yearly income. Still for this tax?
langwiz7 1 year ago
@langwiz7 Trust me just because you're rich doesn't always mean ur better off
soccer92489 1 year ago
@langwiz7
What do you suppose the wealthy do with their money? Do you think they just stack it up and count it making "muah haha" sounds? The more money people have, the more they spend, but their prebate is the same size as the lower incomes, so as a percentage of their expenses, they pay more. They pay nothing on money they don't spend, but so what? That money will eventually go into either investing (capital for jobs) or spending (taxed at 23%). I'm for this tax.
oterj0 1 year ago
@oterj0 Nothing requires any person to use or invest in the American market. If the cost of shipping is less than the cost of the tax, people will take advantage of it. Rich people will have more capital available to them to make this process easier. There's very little stopping people (especially in the New England and Seattle areas) from buying from Canada, or people in SoCal/TX from buying in Mexico. Finally, this will increase internet sales costs because tax + shipping is more than now.
langwiz7 1 year ago
@langwiz7
I grant you that, but nothing requires anyone earn money in the US either. Is it easier for rich people to move their income earning identity offshore or make all their purchases offshore? Surely people won't drive across the border for groceries, perhaps for yacht, but not for the everday commodities. I'd argue it's easier to incorporate and move one's earnings to another jurisdiction. If we call it a wash, what makes more sense, the 10,000+ page income tax code or the FairTax?
oterj0 1 year ago
Competition will cause people to purchase American goods instead of goods from another country because American goods will have more value than the foreign goods. Every item currently has an embedded 22% worth of taxes passed onto the consumer within the price. What the fair tax really does is takes away the government control that is embedded in the current tax system and spreads the share of cost to every consumer regardless of their job or income.
gearjam1933 1 year ago
@langwiz7 The rich person is going to buy more stuff because of having more money. Besides a car, why would a person making $24K be spending $2,000 on something?
enterjcs 1 year ago
@enterjcs "Fair" taxation is all about percentage of income vs price of living at a certain standard. The main reason why the rich are taxed more than the poor is because they can more easily maintain their standard of living. Thus it doesn't matter what exactly the $2000 was spent on. This tax without the pre-bate would severely hurt the poor. It would convince the rich to import goods (since it is possible they would not pay the tax this way).
langwiz7 1 year ago
@enterjcs If you buy a car currently their is a embedded tax included in the price of the car. Under the Fair Tax the embedded tax is removed. On Average a embedded tax is 22% of a product's cost that you buy.
That cost is passed to you currently. So your paiding just alittle bit more under the Fair Tax.
Johnkoth 1 year ago
The FairTax will raise the standard of living for all current tax payers. The amount we each pay will DROP because MORE people will be paying the total revenue neutral amount, including illegals and criminals. Also, prices will likely drop because companies will no longer need to pay tax experts and lawyers. This "compliance cost" right now amounts to $900 per person on average. Granted, SOME? people will benefit more than others, but there will be no loosers with the FairTax.
urgener 1 year ago 10
@urgener
Also you just gave the reason why tax change will not happen: "because companies will no longer need to pay tax experts and lawyers"
just messin" with ya :)
prwilli75 11 months ago
@prwilli75 If U believe the fairtax is good for America & that UR capable of sharing with another person why the fairtax will B good for America. Then eventually we will have enough grassroots support to make it happen.
The tax industry does not create a product or service people actually want. It is created out of bloated impossible to understand tax code that drains the economy, wasting over 7.4 billion hours that we could spending with our families friends or building our businesses.
dtvgmedia 10 months ago
@urgener So true. The Congressional Budget Office estimate in 2007 that implementing the FairTax would put over $600 BILLION dollars, now used to comply with the current tax code, back into the economy. That's $600 BILLION dollars we don't need to spend.
gliderguy 8 months ago
Yeah! We'll Start producing stuff("made in America" brand) just as soon as we start producing stuff(Consumers buy from america with money-alot of people recieve from manufacturing jobs)
DemiGodofDreams 1 year ago
We not only want the Fair Tax, we NEED the Fair Tax and we need it STAT. If you haven't read The Fair Tax Book, it's a must read. Fascinating, provocative, easy read, I have to caution you that some things you read about our current code will make your blood boil; however, the fact that HR 25, the Fair Tax Act exists gives us much hope!!
ziglet53 1 year ago
i think fair tax is a great policy, the other taxes are keeping people poor and are destroying the nation by increasing the the national debt in accordance to our individual family debt.
DarkTemplarKain 1 year ago 3
Almost got me there but really do we consume that we don't already pay taxes on? Fair tax also gets rid EIC or does it?
carnypimp 1 year ago
@carnypimp You may not realize that we pay taxes on every single thing we buy. Think food is expempt? Nope. Imbedded in the cost of every single item you buy is 22% corporate tax and compliance expense. You don't even want to know the billions we spend annually just in compliance costs. You and I pay.
ziglet53 1 year ago
@ziglet53 That not the point untill I get a JOB that pays more than 40,000 a year. I deserve my entitlements not taking away and forcing me to spend more than I can afford to spend just to get a refund at the end of the year. That is my fear.
carnypimp 1 year ago
@carnypimp Under Fair Tax, you wouldn't be forced to spend any more than you do now. Fair Tax doesn't affect "entitlements" whatsoever. It has nothing to do with them. Not only that, the monthly prebate would increase your monthly income at least $200.+ what you're taking home now. No losers w/ Fair Tax.
ziglet53 1 year ago
@carnypimp
The prebate would go to you whether you spend money or not. It functions similar to the earned income tax credit, but without all the complexity of administering the EITC.
oterj0 1 year ago
@oterj0 As long as I get around the same return im fine. But 22.5 I wont buy food no more. My taxes from my check are 8% my house tax is 1.5% of 175K you want me to pay 22.5% to buy stuff. Does that not sound nuts?
carnypimp 1 year ago
@carnypimp There are many fair tax proponents who are against placing taxes on food and clothing.
attemptingtobehumble 10 months ago
@attemptingtobehumble People who use this argument (not necessarily you) don't understand how the FairTax would work. This would really be an unnecessary complication as the portion of purchases for essential items such as food, clothing, medicine, shelter, have the tax refunded to everyone by a PREBATE system. Read The FairTax Book and it will really make sense.
gliderguy 8 months ago
@carnypimp Imbedded taxes and related expenses is present in every single new item you purchase, groceries or otherwise. The Fair Tax prebate gives that money back to you. Today's system merely rips you off.
ziglet53 1 year ago
Have you read their "research" ? Farce tax "research" BEGINS with the assumption Fairtax is a magic pony that shits gold, then tells how great it will be to have all that gold. They don't dare to any "real research," for the same reason their "calculator" does not ask a single question about your spending --- because THEY know its pure bullshit. That's right, Fairtax leaders KNOW their own plan is a farce, which is why they have avoided hearings under oath for 13 years.
NawwLeans 1 year ago
Fair tax/Round tax is never going to happen. You'd have to raise the taxes of about 70% of the population. (The people who elect you) Even though they probably won't have a job, because they run their companies out of business... They want the rich taxed.
TumisHumis 1 year ago
The FAIR tax is only an improvement if the 16th Amendment is repealed. Otherwise the door is left open for the income tax to come back in, and it inevitably will if you leave that option open for politicians.
joesub 1 year ago
@joesub . Fairtax is a FUCKING FARCE., Its own leaders KNOW its a fucking farce, you fucking idiot.
How the FUCK can all cities, and counties, and states, pay HUGE fucking sales taxes on their spending? Where will they get the money?
Do you even fucking grasp that not just PEOPLE pay this tax -- Fairtax pretends the city governments will ALL pay it on ALL their spending. ALL state government too. Do you grasp how fucking insane that is you fucking gullible idiot sheep?
NawwLeans 1 year ago
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joesub 1 year ago
I've learn if republicans want it and fight tooth and nail for it, it CANT be good for everyone. simple as that.
sermadness 1 year ago
@sermadness Serm -- Fairtax is a fucking giant farce. It's own leaders know it - they have avoided hearings under oath for 13 years. There is NO -- absolutely NO research for it. The "research" is by a public relations firm PAID to hawk this shit. Its total nonsense.
Go see their goofy "calculator" which was supposed to "prove" how great it would be. yet they don't ask a SINGLE question about your consumption - what you plan to buy. But that's the ONLY thing you are taxed on.
NawwLeans 1 year ago
@sermadness I kid you not, Fairtax is s SO fucking goofy, that it's own leaders know full well it's a farce. Literally a farce. They dare not have a hearing under oath, they would shit their own pants.
They pretend they can just tax the GOVERNMENT -- city, county, state, federal, spending. Not just tax people -- tax the GOVERNMENT. Yes -- its that goofy. And they know it. They had to pretend that shit to get their "math" to "work"
NawwLeans 1 year ago
I just makes way too much sense. The healthier the economy, the more revenue generated for the government. The reason why government doesn't want this is because they lose control of us. Corporation success and consumerism are things the government is not willing to subject itself too. Politicians are power hungry idiots that think the rest of us don't know the massive schemes they involve themselves in. If they are so concerned with the economy, this would have been passed long ago.
jugg2000 1 year ago
It just makes too much sense. Unless you want to hold onto power as a politician.
bbring1234 1 year ago
Went to PassFairTax(dot)com and signed the petition and I donated to Michael Reagan and all those other supporters in order to get the FairTax passed. These are true Americans!
BrSmith1321 1 year ago
Go to passfairtax(dot)com to sign the petition and pass the FairTax!
airfairtax 1 year ago
Comment removed
dooylle 1 year ago
Consider this. I make $1mm. You make $100m. I'm chintzy. Youre a spender. We both buy $10m in goods and services. We pay ***the exact tax***. And the local Ace Hardware guy sees no addtnl income regardless of our respective income. But if you pay a flat tax, then Mr Chintzy will spend regardless of the incremental tax I pay on consumption. And the Ace Hardware man may make more money. And pay more taxes.
jasameprez 1 year ago
@jasameprez how do you both buy 10 mm when you make 1 mm
TheEpoxyExpert 1 year ago
@TheEpoxyExpert 10m is 10,000. 1mm is $1,000,000. Sorry for the confusion.
jasameprez 1 year ago
It's hard to believe these "Politutes" they say one thing and when they get into office it's another person. Look at Obama.
edmctigue 1 year ago
I think the Fair Tax is awesome. Let me keep all the money I make and just tax me on the items I consume. Makes more sense to me.
jeremywomackdotcom 1 year ago
@jeremywomackdotcom Also, foreigners who visit the U.S. including illegal imigrants would be subject to the tax which brings in more revenue for the government... I just don't see why Washington can't see the benefits. Corporations will start manufacturing on U.S. soil again and really supercharge the economy. It is an unbeatable system.
jugg2000 1 year ago
mike huckabee is a very convincing speaker. i'll give him that.
up2trix 1 year ago
@up2trix I would rather have Ron Paul as president, though I'll take Huckabee as a second choice. Fuck Sarah Palin though. I wish people would stop idolizing that idiot, it makes the rest of the common sense conservatives look bad.
asleeperj 1 year ago
It's too bad NcCain was nominated instead of Mike.
TheAmericanRifleman 1 year ago
@TheAmericanRifleman 12345678
asleeperj 1 year ago
Oh great deal the fed does not pay taxes! Beat me with the fraud tax as I am tired of the beaten I have gotten from the Income tax.
Mike
Michaelbenoit7 1 year ago
i love the fair tax but my question is. where does the tax money go? if not to the irs
rightwingrocks 1 year ago
@rightwingrocks Probably right to the Treasurer
FamousDave2186 1 year ago
Republicans are great at selling poor people ideas that will keep them poor while making the rich richer. They make poor people think that THEY'RE the ones who will reap the benefit. Anyone remember "trickle down economics?" They were basically telling the lower class that they were pissing on them, and the poor people bought it hook, line, and sinker.
FuckItSnoopy 1 year ago
@FuckItSnoopy - I would suggest that you read the FairTax book. If there's ever a chance of having a truly "fair" tax system, the FairTax is it. It totally un-taxes anyone living beneath the poverty level. If you hate wealthy people, think of this... under the FairTax the wealthy would pay more in federal taxes than any other class. The FairTax doesn't reward or punish classes like the current system does. If you do the math, you'll love it.
NAGGERNUTZ 1 year ago
@FuckItSnoopy Oh like welfare? Or the minimum wage? Go read a book guy, and get some original thoughts floating around in that head of yours. The fact of the matter is things like welfare incentivize failure, and punish success. Minimum wage causes unemployment, and reduced purchasing power for everyone. Most of which are the POOR, and MIDDLE classes. Two things Democrats stand for right?
asleeperj 1 year ago
@asleeperj
You could never get a lib to wrap their head around how price increases with the min wage actually hurt the very people they purport to help. They just don't understand that only teenagers make min wage and the resulting price increases disproportionately affect the lower incomes (those just above min). I think it just requires too much brainpower.
oterj0 1 year ago
@oterj0 The min does effect that but the raise of minum wage seems to all be the answer for idiots. Has nothing to do with libs most states raised minimum wage where Republican ran and was done before Obama was elected. So I dont get where it's a liberal thing. Sorry to be an ass but as a proud democrat im not going to stand by blaming my party for the mistakes of both the right and left.
carnypimp 1 year ago
@carnypimp
I think that's fair. At the core, it's about the voters. They just don't understand cause and effect. They think raising people's wages doesn't create dislocations that undue the perceived good of raising someone's wages. However, the impact is relatively small, so if I were a Republican legislator, I'd vote for min wage increase knowing it's popular even if it's ultimately bad, because the impact is small. The voters are really the problem.
oterj0 1 year ago
@oterj0 True
carnypimp 1 year ago
The income tax is fulfilling the Marxist philosophy, that the surest way to destroy a capitalist
society is by steeply graduated taxes on income, and heavy levies upon the estates of people when they die.
asleeperj 1 year ago
The income tax is fulfilling the Marxist philosophy, that the surest way to destroy a capitalist
society is by steeply graduated taxes on income, and heavy levies upon the estates of people when they die.
asleeperj 1 year ago
The income tax is bad because it was was conceived utterly in class hatred.
It employs the communist principle of taking from each according to his accumulation of the fruits of his labor, and giving to others according to their needs, regardless of weather or not those needs are the result of indolence, or the lack of pride, self respect, personal dignity, or other attributes of
men.
asleeperj 1 year ago
Pray for a miracle, because that's what it is going to take to correct the mess our country is in. Republicans need to start embracing conservative principles with open arms. The electorate(We The People) must stop looking to government for all the answers to our every want and need. Independence away from government is the solution. Big government needs to be disolved. Fat chance of that happening, but it's the only solution. Workers Unions must also be put to rest.
samspade1957 1 year ago
HAHA Listen @ 6:30 "imagine a congress so stupid they would try to impose another income tax after the fair tax..."
Well that would be the Democrat controled congress with Yobama at the helm. They just passed the Healthcare bill which includes an increase in payroll (income) taxes. Democrats love to tax and be in control.
leaddrop 1 year ago
Just go back to the way it was before the IRS and FED were created!! All they have to do is follow the original tax system our forefathers original created!! GET RID OF THE IRS and THE FED!!
fury350z 1 year ago
The first legislation that I will fight to see passed: the Fair Tax Plan, HR 25. We've got return our beloved nation to propserity. Fair Tax WILL do it.
ziglet53 1 year ago
It's so obvious to see which ones who comment, who have not read the books or researched at all, what the FairTax really is, how it works and how fantastic it would be for every single American and the whole Nation's economy. So for those who want to comment about the FairTax intelligently, read and study it 1st., then if you can't see the value of it, you're either just plain dense or one who does'nt want to pay any taxes yourself, because you are a selfish user rather than a caring producer...
MAVsays 1 year ago 2
Tax will always be a way to defraud the deceived ones. Throughout history only slaves paid tax on labor or property. Our resources should and plenty to pay for our services but we are rob of them buy the corporations. The all planet is in debt, to whom? is the question. Venus! Democracy= dictatorship by the bankster. Only have to deceive 50+1% of the numb ones and they can dictate all. In a world where greed = success and entertainment is more sooth then history what can be expected?
evilmoneysystem 1 year ago
Gosh, this would be sooooo convenient and the IRS would disappear, but the government would need to suck up its pride.
Then again, when will they ever give that up?
owhsht310 1 year ago
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owhsht310 1 year ago
Under the fairtax we MIGHT be paying 5% more than we are now at retail but we wont be paying that $1800 a month and my family of 4 would be getting a prebate of $537 a month, plus we all go back to work! This is a no brainer! Go to ONLINETAXREVOLT decimal point COM.
ymp5000 1 year ago 11
This has been flagged as spam show
Fairtax pretends to tax the GOVERNMENT. Don't believe me? Read the books.
"The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR taxpayer." Page 148, The Fairtax Book.
"Fairtax treats all governments alike ---- federal state and local --- as individual consumers.......under our plan, all government purchases of LABOR, supplies, and services, would be subject to the fairtax."
....Fairtax The Truth Book, page 138.
MathTruthTax 1 year ago
Family of 4 @ $83200 files 0 and pays $21600. Gets back $3500 return for an effective tax rate of 21.75% of income. On top of that you have 20 to 22% (depending) on average imbedded tax at retail. In this system those of us who actually pay taxes are double taxed. X% of income and up to 22% of consumption.
ymp5000 1 year ago
This is one area where I fully agree with boortz. we need to reward work.
fedtheend 1 year ago 2
This is the reason why I wanted Huckabee to win the primary. He was the only candidate to address the problem of our archaic tax code.
waddsworth 1 year ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Some say Fairtax is goofy to pretend to tax the government.
What's wrong with taxing the government?
I know my city would LOVE to pay a tax on every dime it spends. The Pentagon could pay too - what's the problem?
Look at all the magic money we will make just taxing the government.
Government can't pass those taxes on in higher taxes, can they! Corporations do, but government wont!
Wow -- Fairtax is a genius plan. Just tax the government!!!
No fucking wonder they hide it.
12FlyMe 1 year ago
FANTASTIC !!!!!!!
912newfounder 1 year ago
Great video!!
z28com 1 year ago
Why didn't this air before the primaries? Give me a break, someone with a little sense, damn.
moonshinerjack 1 year ago
This video deserves more views!
THEPRAUN 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
They would ALL figure it out dumb fuck - even dumb fucks like YOU would figure it out -- if they ever had a hearing under oath dumb fuck.
Fairtax is a FARCE you dumb fuck - it's own leaders KNOW it's a farce dumb fuck. They are not trying to pass their OWN bill dumb fuck -- because it's goofy as fucking hell.
Got that dumb fuck -- this is NOT a serious plan -- it's a FUCKING