WTF! I'm watching Enemy at the Gate right now, and I spotted this immediately...and it annoys the hell out of me! Every time I hear it in the film, I think of the Giant Home Tree collapsing in Avatar! What's with all the recycled music? I watched Gladiator about a month ago for the first time in years, and I'm hearing Pirates of the Caribbean music in many of the action scenes! What are they paying these guys for?
@fungie55 technically you're watching Pirates of the Caribbean and are hearing Gladiator and are watching Avatar and hearing Enemy at the Gates :) James Horner is well know for recycling his music, Hans Zimmer has a few motifs that he likes to use but he's nowhere near as bad
@fungie55 Another Hans Zimmer recycle is 'Time' from Inception vs. 'Journey To The Line' from The Thin Red Line.
On a side not, apart from the Horn motif, the Avatar score also strongly resembles the them from 'Glory' at times. Especially choral phrases in the first half, then harmonic phrases from 4:10 onwards.
if taking the work of another and calling it your own isn't fraudulent, i don't know what is. as far as his personal stamp, i think that would be more compelling if he had created the stamp in the first place, but again, it is borrowed. i think that if this were the only example, or one of just a few, people would be overreacting. however, four instances (at least) are far too many when the man was paid to right an original score.
and about classical music.. come on. That occurs sparingly enough that we can never be sure he intended to. Composers can't hum parts of a new score into a mic for a computer to sieve through every piece ever written by every dead genius and tell him if he's plagiarised them. Disconcerting similarities are almost bound to happen; or sometimes memory just masquerades as inspiration.
we should stop dissing him... like Zimmer (another score-recycler!) he's earned the right to stamp a trademark onto whichever works he chooses. It does not reflect well on him as an artist, but we can't deny that the ORIGINAL aspects of his compositions have truly made the world a better place. Don't call him a 'fraud' for a single action cue.
also, from willow, i heard schumann's third symphony for the first time last night. sounded just like willow. or vice versa. listen to Schumann, then to Horner's "Escape from the Tavern" starting at 2:47
yes, he's an absolute fraud. It would be bad enough if he plagiarized himself, but this little theme occurs at the start of Rachmaninov's first symphony. give it a listen.
i was watching troy and i had walked into the other room, then, all of a sudden i had to run back into the room to check and see is someone had changed it to avatar, but it was still troy.
Somewhere, I saw an interview with him where he claimed to conceive the motif for Wrath of Kahn--he discusses coming up with the idea in the interview.
@0casteloencantado0 You don't have to recycle parts of your soundtrack to have trademarks... Take Carter Burwell, John Williams... you can always guess that they made the soundtrack and yet they're not recycling anything...
@robinjanasek one could look at pretty much the entire career of philip glass and see the variation of the same compositional technique. some critics have reduced rachmaninov to just arpeggios. don't forget the mendelssohn flutes. three notes of a horn in all of this composers scores? shocking!!!
/jQd5ueBM5Yk ... It is one thing to use similar techniques, but Horner is using exactly the same parts of music in his new soundtrack. It doesn't sound similar. It sounds exactly the same, that's the problem.
There is a theme introduced in The New World that is further developed in Avatar. There is also a theme in Enemy at the Gates that is slowed down and developed in the New World. James Horner also borrows freely from Richard Wagner in The New World. D. Alexandr D'Maddalena
Yes, Horner quotes himself in many of his films. These are his signatures, so you always know who wrote the score. Every composer has motifs he uses over and over again. D. Alexandr D'Maddalena
A brief examination of the Horner's penchant for plagiarism/laziness can be read in the first three paragraphs of the Alex Ross article, "Oscar Scores." (Search for "Oscar Scores by Alex Ross") It's also an awful darn well-written piece on the evolution of film music, itself.
Thank goodness you did this! I was watching enemy at the gates this morning and it was driving me crazy that I had heard this repetition of 3 same notes repeated in 4 steps like agbg going up then back down 1. I said who else on this earth could possibly be as crazy as me that this would drive them crazy enough to research it. Ok so you r my new friend. So which score truly did u think of first when you heard ENEMY AT THE GATE was it boy in striped pajamas or perfect storm? Thanks for your c
Yeah, I noticed that too. It's kinda funny, but on the other hand - one theme is almost exactly the same, but the rest of the music is usually new, so it's not that shameful of him. Maybe he does in on purpose, to establish it as a kind of trademark you know..
There are also marked similarities in short motifs he used in Commando, Aliens, the Rocketeer and Star Trek II. And guess what? I still love all those scores. You're acting like he's cheating somehow or that this is a big deal. I fail to see the scandal here.
there are still great composers out there alive and composing dudes.. like alexander desplat, and harry gregson williams and others.. alan silvestri... let's not let james horner shitty attitude ruin our spirits and respect for film scores now :D
@amandannesbitt agreed. The entire score for Troy is the 4-note motif. Achilles fights...4 note motif. Achilles weeps...4 note motif. Achilles takes a dump in a bush...4 note motif.
@ferociousfrankie It's very sad. I thought Danny Elfman was totally awesome until I realised his scores from Alice in Wonderland and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory were IDENTICAL. D: Murray Gold's my favourite composer now. :D And he only does TV.
yeah, it's obvious the motive is the same in all those mentioned movies, but considering it's not the main theme in any of these cases, just a little added motive to maybe spice things up, he might be doin' this intentionally, attaching it as a trademark to all his works
@jaffdog86 Hans Zimmer does reuse music, but I love it nonetheless. His work for Inception is great, but it resembles The Dark Knight and The Thin Red Line.
@MOTHMAN225 indeed! one of my favourite reuses is a track called Stealth from the Broken Arrow soundtrack. A couple of minutes in he cuts in with a very swashbuckling sounding tune which he used as the basis for Pirates of the Carribean. Also some of his work from Black Hawk Down is used as the Modern Warfare 2 soundtrack. Never heard a bad track by him, truly amazing, This James Horner guy is none to shabby too.
@alex2east well, they say Rachmaninoff based this motif on Brahms Rhapsody No.1 in B minor. but I rly expected the "where it came from" link to lead to Rachmaninoff's Symphony No.1. strangely enough it did not.
How is it possible that no one has ever told James to leave those trumpets out.? How is it possible that he himself has put them there? How is it possible that a thought of leaving those out for once (except for Braveheart soundtrack) has never crossed his mind?
@estring123 Hans Zimmer's style is just as repetitive as Horner's. Inception alone had similarities to more of his scores than I can count. He's also delved into the classical music pot a few times himself and cloned the work of others (Wagner comes to mind). Anyway, at least Horner orchestrates (for the most part) all of his own music, instead of having a team of ghost writers to all the work.
@jg2904 i agree zimmer recycle a lot too, but his music actually sounds good!? i love his epic style so muchhhh.
horner just has a bunch of random shit slapped together on a program. the problem with modern composers is that they have too much money on their hands and so are lazy as fuck, not that they cant really make original music if they actually work hard.
@estring123 To each his/her own, I suppose. I can't stand Zimmer's style for more than a few minutes at a time. Too much bass and too much synthetic brass for my taste. I'm not sure I agree with you on the "random shit" remark (if anything, Horner becomes too formulaic at times), but yeah, they definitely like to work in their comfort zones! I wish they'd take more risks, that's why I seek more Goldsmith than anybody else. He was always trying new things, even if they didn't always work.
@MrJegsnakker "Shutting Down Grace's Lab" and "The Destruction Of Hometree" from Avatar, "Danilov's Confession" from Enemy at the Gates, not sure which track from Troy soundtrack, but the final one is "Elora Danan" from Willow.
Horner is my favorite composer. Glory, Field of Dreams, Braveheart, Willow, Legends of the Fall, Land Before Time, Aliens, Apollo 13, The Spitfire Grill, The Mask of Zorro (his motif is also in that film), A Beautiful Mind, etc...Those are all fantastic scores. Glory is a masterpiece, so is Braveheart.
@jamoe007 You really need to browse the Goldsmith Wikipedia article and touch up on all the ways he innovated and progressed the art form. Again, I love Horner's music & own all but 2 of the soundtracks you listed, but he owes a lot of his style to Goldsmith, an artist he frequently tried to emulate. Battle Beyond the Stars, Star Trek II & III, Aliens, & Avatar among others all draw from previous Goldsmith innovation. I won't even start on all the things he drew from Orff, Wagner, Williams, etc.
they used the same song .. and what?.. is it disturbing anyone? i noticed that the day i saw avatar in theater .. and btw in my opition enemy at gate > avatar :)
avatar is still an awesome movie but enemy at gate is a classic imo
Y'know, I recently heard this in Doctor Who! Series 5, episode 8, it's in there quite a bit. Weird, it looks like Murray Gold stole the four-note battle cry.
@Sanhadrian Zimmer does recycle. Compare Black Rain to Batman begins, King Arthur to Pirates 2, and even Pearl Harbor to The Last Samurai. Nevertheless, I love his work. That also goes to Horner--he's still a decent composer. Braveheart & Cocoon are my 2 favs of his.
Star Trek II's score was also reused/cycled in Cocoon ... the boat chase scene. But, many great composers evolve their music, it's a common theme. Horner's a genius, his music is stunning, evocative, passionate.
Now, after watching this video... i feel embarrased that a guy like Horner recycles so much. But as I understood by Troy, he only had 11 DAYS! So he had to cannibalize alot of his older scores to make it fit to the picture.. So if under pressure I can understand.. but why use that ALL THE TIME?? :) Originality, lost.. The last score that I felt was different was the ALIENS score. ambiences, never heard the 4 note danger motif in that movie. So happy about that. And True Lies I think. Great stuff
-"Exploring the forest" 0:51-1:30 in Boy in the stripped pyjamas vs. a charlotte church theme in beautiful mind (I dont know name of the song but the video is called "Charlotte Church" and it was uploaded by "CChurchfan" 1:52-2:50.
There is an other track composed by James Horner wich use this theme at trumpet. This is the beginning of "The Funeral" extract from "The Boy in Striped Pyjamas".
@ferociousfrankie You know, I read the whole description and somehow missed the only one with a date beside it. Sorry! I wouldn't have caught that anyway as I'm not necessarily the greatest John Barry or Dino De Laurentiis "King Kong" fan.
But of course Wagner was the ultimate first. The man practically invented film scoring, despite never writing one!
@jg2904 Agreed. Even John Williams reuses some of his work. Compare E.T. and Home Alone, no doubt similar, and Hans Zimmer with Black Rain and Batman Begins. Goldenthal is another one who reuses some of his work too. Nevertheless, all of them are excellent composers.
@jg2904 Agreed - Goldsmith was sensational. Horner used the same motif in Star trek II (1982) but not sure if this was the first time he used it. And yes - it's from King Kong!
@scaper3 Really? I don't remember the 4-note motif in Star Trek II, though I've heard its obvious precursors and his 80s horn trills. That got a little old after Wolfen, Star Trek II, Star Trek III, Aliens, etc. Especially as it all sounds like a follow up to Goldsmith's Outland. lol
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@jg2904 dude jerry goldsmith was really repetitive. i love jerry goldsmith, and i love james horner. but to say horner wasnt as diverse as goldsmith is inaccurate in my opinion.
@jamoe007 I don't mean to sound rude, but I question how much you know about Jerry Goldsmith in this case. When has he ever repeated whole melodies from score to score or cloned his musical style for two different films? Sure, you can draw similarities here and there, like the central American music in the scores to Caboblanco, Under Fire, and Medicine Man, but even those three scores are all stylistically and melodically different in there unique own way. Same can't be said for Horner usually..
i knew that the second one was copied the second i heard it in the movie fuckin piss off styll like yd he hav to do it look at inception and its sound track soo cool and as far as i know original!!!
@nomoreusernamesleft1 Pish posh, Zimmer is just as self-recycling in style as Horner. The Inception soundtrack has similarities to everything from The Thin Red Line to Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. He's kinda become the John Barry of the 2000s...
I have no problem with ripping yourself off. You have to be pretty pedantic to pick all the similarities up in those songs. As for that 4 note 'riff', hell maybe he's set a challenge for himself to include that in every score he does. Good on him I say.
haha I've been thinking about making this exact same video for a while. Looks like you beat me to it. Can't believe how often he reuses this motif. His name is written all over the bloody posters he doesn't need to keep signing the score.
Yup, I've noticed this before. C'mon Horner - you think we don't notice these cut and paste jobs? And it's not just him - check out Gladiator, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Rock, Pearl Harbor and Metal Gear Solid II – all done by Hans Zimmer. Maybe a lot of people don't notice this stuff, but I do and it definitely detracts the moments in my mind.
Probably already mentioned somewhere, but I just saw The Perfect Storm and noticed the same motif as well.
Nliman 3 weeks ago
It happens. I saw Haywire yesterday and thought I was watching Ocean's Eleven. Sure enough...
Who5150 1 month ago
@Who5150 i watched it too and made me think of oceans too..same director and everything
DerrickJBurton 1 month ago
WTF! I'm watching Enemy at the Gate right now, and I spotted this immediately...and it annoys the hell out of me! Every time I hear it in the film, I think of the Giant Home Tree collapsing in Avatar! What's with all the recycled music? I watched Gladiator about a month ago for the first time in years, and I'm hearing Pirates of the Caribbean music in many of the action scenes! What are they paying these guys for?
fungie55 1 month ago
@fungie55 technically you're watching Pirates of the Caribbean and are hearing Gladiator and are watching Avatar and hearing Enemy at the Gates :) James Horner is well know for recycling his music, Hans Zimmer has a few motifs that he likes to use but he's nowhere near as bad
Marks3DVlog 1 month ago
@fungie55 SHUT THE FUCK UP DUMBASS
Jrwriter11 1 month ago
@fungie55 Another Hans Zimmer recycle is 'Time' from Inception vs. 'Journey To The Line' from The Thin Red Line.
On a side not, apart from the Horn motif, the Avatar score also strongly resembles the them from 'Glory' at times. Especially choral phrases in the first half, then harmonic phrases from 4:10 onwards.
Jdiggity101 2 days ago
if taking the work of another and calling it your own isn't fraudulent, i don't know what is. as far as his personal stamp, i think that would be more compelling if he had created the stamp in the first place, but again, it is borrowed. i think that if this were the only example, or one of just a few, people would be overreacting. however, four instances (at least) are far too many when the man was paid to right an original score.
tomwholloman 1 month ago
@tomwholloman *write
tomwholloman 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
and about classical music.. come on. That occurs sparingly enough that we can never be sure he intended to. Composers can't hum parts of a new score into a mic for a computer to sieve through every piece ever written by every dead genius and tell him if he's plagiarised them. Disconcerting similarities are almost bound to happen; or sometimes memory just masquerades as inspiration.
28crucis 1 month ago
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28crucis 1 month ago
we should stop dissing him... like Zimmer (another score-recycler!) he's earned the right to stamp a trademark onto whichever works he chooses. It does not reflect well on him as an artist, but we can't deny that the ORIGINAL aspects of his compositions have truly made the world a better place. Don't call him a 'fraud' for a single action cue.
28crucis 1 month ago
also, from willow, i heard schumann's third symphony for the first time last night. sounded just like willow. or vice versa. listen to Schumann, then to Horner's "Escape from the Tavern" starting at 2:47
he is a disgrace.
tomwholloman 1 month ago
yes, he's an absolute fraud. It would be bad enough if he plagiarized himself, but this little theme occurs at the start of Rachmaninov's first symphony. give it a listen.
tomwholloman 1 month ago
i was watching troy and i had walked into the other room, then, all of a sudden i had to run back into the room to check and see is someone had changed it to avatar, but it was still troy.
bloodshawt 1 month ago
The Mask of Zorro (1998) uses this sequence as well.
stads10 1 month ago
Agreed!
NationalVideoWatcher 1 month ago
Somewhere, I saw an interview with him where he claimed to conceive the motif for Wrath of Kahn--he discusses coming up with the idea in the interview.
dannthr 1 month ago
have you thought it could be a trademark? something of a personal characteristic?
0casteloencantado0 2 months ago
@0casteloencantado0 You don't have to recycle parts of your soundtrack to have trademarks... Take Carter Burwell, John Williams... you can always guess that they made the soundtrack and yet they're not recycling anything...
robinjanasek 1 month ago
@robinjanasek one could look at pretty much the entire career of philip glass and see the variation of the same compositional technique. some critics have reduced rachmaninov to just arpeggios. don't forget the mendelssohn flutes. three notes of a horn in all of this composers scores? shocking!!!
0casteloencantado0 1 month ago
@0casteloencantado0 If it would be just those few notes...
/jQd5ueBM5Yk ... It is one thing to use similar techniques, but Horner is using exactly the same parts of music in his new soundtrack. It doesn't sound similar. It sounds exactly the same, that's the problem.
robinjanasek 1 month ago
@robinjanasek and, of course, the countless wonderful composers who recycled celano's dies irae. liszt, berlioz, haydn, holst, rachmaninov, etc etc
0casteloencantado0 1 month ago
@0casteloencantado0 Sorry, wrong link, this should be right ... /watch?v=jQd5ueBM5Yk
robinjanasek 1 month ago
I watched Avatar and instantly thought of the score from the Perfect Storm.
blueeyesandfreckles 2 months ago
You could have added Brainstorm, The Perfect Storm and The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas too.
LightStijn 2 months ago
These songs are influenced by the composer Rachmaninov.
theaws0m3guy 2 months ago
he over uses that trumpet tune its in apollo 13 to
jorz85 2 months ago
Whats the composer and name of the first and second avatar song????
lolboy198 2 months ago
i like the photos
jason1photo 2 months ago
FINAALLY someone made this ive been waiting
mrflamerkid117 2 months ago
There is a theme introduced in The New World that is further developed in Avatar. There is also a theme in Enemy at the Gates that is slowed down and developed in the New World. James Horner also borrows freely from Richard Wagner in The New World. D. Alexandr D'Maddalena
douglasmatley 2 months ago
watch?v=CDRKQ2ahdfY
2012invest 2 months ago
Yes, Horner quotes himself in many of his films. These are his signatures, so you always know who wrote the score. Every composer has motifs he uses over and over again. D. Alexandr D'Maddalena
douglasmatley 2 months ago
My favorite Horner scores are Enemy At The Gates, Four Feathers, and Troy.
douglasmatley 2 months ago
Did some research
The same guy who did the music for Avatar is the same guy who done the music for Enemy at the gates. Problem solved :D
FireSwordProductions 2 months ago
This pattern is also present in the soundtrack of "The Mask of Zorro", in the track called "Leave no Witnesses".
JosephMykid 2 months ago
It's subtle, but if you listen to Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn, you can here it again (with one more note added) in the trak called "Kahn's Pets"
Hepcat24601 2 months ago
I was thinking the Avatar score sounded a lot like the Troy one. I never realized that it was also the same for Enemy at the Gate.
araya1 3 months ago
the perfect storm
camtheman3x6 3 months ago
But his work is still amazingly good though
RacinZilla007 3 months ago
Not only that, James Horner copied John Williams' Siren in Schindler's List for Enemy at the gates...
You know, Hi C F Hi C F Dflat C Aflat Lo C
RacinZilla007 3 months ago
A brief examination of the Horner's penchant for plagiarism/laziness can be read in the first three paragraphs of the Alex Ross article, "Oscar Scores." (Search for "Oscar Scores by Alex Ross") It's also an awful darn well-written piece on the evolution of film music, itself.
TheStockwell 3 months ago
THANK YOU. I KNEW I had been hearing this theme in a whole lot of movies, but I couldn't think of which ones.
Kaikepper 3 months ago
Thank goodness you did this! I was watching enemy at the gates this morning and it was driving me crazy that I had heard this repetition of 3 same notes repeated in 4 steps like agbg going up then back down 1. I said who else on this earth could possibly be as crazy as me that this would drive them crazy enough to research it. Ok so you r my new friend. So which score truly did u think of first when you heard ENEMY AT THE GATE was it boy in striped pajamas or perfect storm? Thanks for your c
Leslieperryscott 4 months ago 7
@Leslieperryscott Thanks, film nerds unite!
ferociousfrankie 4 months ago
@Leslieperryscott Listen Rachmaninov's Symphony no. 1
JestemMuzyka 3 months ago
Yeah, I noticed that too. It's kinda funny, but on the other hand - one theme is almost exactly the same, but the rest of the music is usually new, so it's not that shameful of him. Maybe he does in on purpose, to establish it as a kind of trademark you know..
Alqarin 4 months ago
There are also marked similarities in short motifs he used in Commando, Aliens, the Rocketeer and Star Trek II. And guess what? I still love all those scores. You're acting like he's cheating somehow or that this is a big deal. I fail to see the scandal here.
Spanambula 4 months ago
ok, now make a video about the violin scales that hans zimmer uses and yell "rape, rape!!", like jodie foster.
bulaxa 4 months ago
He's a five time oscar nominated composer, fuck all you hacks who make fun of him.
SurfaceCollison 4 months ago
there are still great composers out there alive and composing dudes.. like alexander desplat, and harry gregson williams and others.. alan silvestri... let's not let james horner shitty attitude ruin our spirits and respect for film scores now :D
MrDannybm88 4 months ago
ladies and gentlemen, this is James Horner's signature
aaj606 4 months ago 3
@aaj606 *cough* Rachamaninov *cough*
Doum92 3 months ago
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11GLopez 2 months ago
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11GLopez 2 months ago
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@aaj606 his "signature" is a copy of Rachmaninov symphony Nº 1.
11GLopez 2 months ago
The trumpet part is actually done as semitones. I have recognized it for YEARS and it always makes me laugh :D Still love Horner though.
amandannesbitt 4 months ago
@amandannesbitt agreed. The entire score for Troy is the 4-note motif. Achilles fights...4 note motif. Achilles weeps...4 note motif. Achilles takes a dump in a bush...4 note motif.
MOTHMAN225 4 months ago
You should have added "the Great Valley" from Land before time. The horn motif sounds off from the very beginning of the song.
biggtk 5 months ago
the avatar songs i want to learn what they are named plzzz some one tell meeee
Billis1994 5 months ago
This is not "how modern movies are made." This is how James Horner makes his scores. Because he's a hack.
theShadowviking 5 months ago
@theShadowviking Original film scores are a novelty now... Composers rely on the ignorance of the audience to sample everything.
ferociousfrankie 5 months ago
@ferociousfrankie That's a gross exaggeration.
theShadowviking 5 months ago
@ferociousfrankie It's very sad. I thought Danny Elfman was totally awesome until I realised his scores from Alice in Wonderland and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory were IDENTICAL. D: Murray Gold's my favourite composer now. :D And he only does TV.
Hawkalina 1 month ago
i also found this out man .. i was just wondering if anyone else heard it :D awesome vid
kakbeun 5 months ago
the second song on avatar whats its name????
Billis1994 5 months ago
mannn i love the avatar song me and some of my friend cryiend in the movies when watched the movie....so good songs...
Billis1994 5 months ago
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toacamater 6 months ago
wats the begging song called
xbedazzeled 6 months ago in playlist normal music
Avatars version is so much more beautiful
LightningEidolen 6 months ago
im watching enemy at the gates now and i was like i haerd this before and i did it was on avatar
xbedazzeled 6 months ago
wait, they are all the exact same... wow, nice find.
cuzgandalfgothigh99 6 months ago
holy shit! enemy at the gates soundtrack was exactly the same dude >_>
cuzgandalfgothigh99 6 months ago
yeah, it's obvious the motive is the same in all those mentioned movies, but considering it's not the main theme in any of these cases, just a little added motive to maybe spice things up, he might be doin' this intentionally, attaching it as a trademark to all his works
CrusTeek 6 months ago
red heat and commando and another 48 hrs are all identical, he's as bad as hans zimmer for knocking off his own work!
jaffdog86 7 months ago
@jaffdog86 Hans Zimmer does reuse music, but I love it nonetheless. His work for Inception is great, but it resembles The Dark Knight and The Thin Red Line.
MOTHMAN225 7 months ago
@MOTHMAN225 indeed! one of my favourite reuses is a track called Stealth from the Broken Arrow soundtrack. A couple of minutes in he cuts in with a very swashbuckling sounding tune which he used as the basis for Pirates of the Carribean. Also some of his work from Black Hawk Down is used as the Modern Warfare 2 soundtrack. Never heard a bad track by him, truly amazing, This James Horner guy is none to shabby too.
jaffdog86 7 months ago
Also,"The Mask of Zorro" "The Perfect Storm" and "Unlawful Entry"
IliveinMA 7 months ago
Oh Don't forget "The Boy in the Striped Pajamas" where they're carrying Bruno's Grandmother to her grave
CurbStomper5557600 7 months ago
Horner also recycled that wonderful and spooky string piece from the end of Aliens in Patriot Games. Was quite off putting when watching the film.
talcy 7 months ago
i was watching troy just now and was thinking, damn you horner you lazy cunt
SullyMediaProduction 7 months ago
It totally makes me mad that the trumpets sound exactly like Willow, that movie is my life, and he totally stole it.
elliedrama46 8 months ago
lol you can just here alot og Enemy at the gates
mrflamerkid117 8 months ago
You know that the Russian composer Sergei Rachmaninov wrote this "famous melody-part" in his 1st symphony over 100 years ago...
alex2east 8 months ago
@alex2east well, they say Rachmaninoff based this motif on Brahms Rhapsody No.1 in B minor. but I rly expected the "where it came from" link to lead to Rachmaninoff's Symphony No.1. strangely enough it did not.
erghtrfgh 8 months ago
@erghtrfgh hehe, interesting. rach's 1st symphonie is really a bit similar to brahms' rhapsody
alex2east 8 months ago
wow
20 years with the same "danger track"
fr4nbl 8 months ago
The nice thing about it is, you don't need the credits to know who wrote the music. lol
unnamednewbie13 9 months ago
I'm deaf. I just really appreciate the picture
MrTubinification 9 months ago
@MrTubinification i saw this comment before on the matrix soundtrack :p
TheJeffaaaaa 9 months ago
@MrTubinification That...That Is Sad. Im Sorry To Hear That....
MrNig1 8 months ago
he also did that in zorro
dragonmcmx 9 months ago
How is it possible that no one has ever told James to leave those trumpets out.? How is it possible that he himself has put them there? How is it possible that a thought of leaving those out for once (except for Braveheart soundtrack) has never crossed his mind?
taistelutomaatti 9 months ago
oh you already had that one, didn't even see it... ha!
HachiSanJu 9 months ago
this exact motif occurs in "the perfect storm" as well, if only a few times. horner seems to believe he's found... "the perfect score". B)
HachiSanJu 9 months ago
Its the same with Alan Sivestri.
If u Listen to his Van Helsing, Beowulf and GI Joe soundtracks u allways can hear his "signiture"
Denorius01 10 months ago
horner = the world's biggest recycling bin
estring123 10 months ago
lmao hans zimmer rapes this bitch's ass eZzZ
estring123 10 months ago
@estring123 Hans Zimmer's style is just as repetitive as Horner's. Inception alone had similarities to more of his scores than I can count. He's also delved into the classical music pot a few times himself and cloned the work of others (Wagner comes to mind). Anyway, at least Horner orchestrates (for the most part) all of his own music, instead of having a team of ghost writers to all the work.
jg2904 10 months ago
@jg2904 i agree zimmer recycle a lot too, but his music actually sounds good!? i love his epic style so muchhhh.
horner just has a bunch of random shit slapped together on a program. the problem with modern composers is that they have too much money on their hands and so are lazy as fuck, not that they cant really make original music if they actually work hard.
estring123 10 months ago
@estring123 To each his/her own, I suppose. I can't stand Zimmer's style for more than a few minutes at a time. Too much bass and too much synthetic brass for my taste. I'm not sure I agree with you on the "random shit" remark (if anything, Horner becomes too formulaic at times), but yeah, they definitely like to work in their comfort zones! I wish they'd take more risks, that's why I seek more Goldsmith than anybody else. He was always trying new things, even if they didn't always work.
jg2904 10 months ago 3
Whats the name of this music ?? thanks ;)
MrJegsnakker 10 months ago
@MrJegsnakker "Shutting Down Grace's Lab" and "The Destruction Of Hometree" from Avatar, "Danilov's Confession" from Enemy at the Gates, not sure which track from Troy soundtrack, but the final one is "Elora Danan" from Willow.
jg2904 10 months ago
@jg2904 Thank you very much, from a French ! x)
MrJegsnakker 10 months ago
Horner is my favorite composer. Glory, Field of Dreams, Braveheart, Willow, Legends of the Fall, Land Before Time, Aliens, Apollo 13, The Spitfire Grill, The Mask of Zorro (his motif is also in that film), A Beautiful Mind, etc...Those are all fantastic scores. Glory is a masterpiece, so is Braveheart.
jamoe007 10 months ago 3
@jamoe007 You really need to browse the Goldsmith Wikipedia article and touch up on all the ways he innovated and progressed the art form. Again, I love Horner's music & own all but 2 of the soundtracks you listed, but he owes a lot of his style to Goldsmith, an artist he frequently tried to emulate. Battle Beyond the Stars, Star Trek II & III, Aliens, & Avatar among others all draw from previous Goldsmith innovation. I won't even start on all the things he drew from Orff, Wagner, Williams, etc.
jg2904 10 months ago 4
Its nice too see that others pay attention to the music during film :]
snevarez89 10 months ago
Comment removed
snevarez89 10 months ago
Saw perfect storm yesterday, never saw it before. Knew directly it had to be Horner because of the same motif I already heared in Willow, Avatar
leviterande 10 months ago
I noticed that when i watched enemy at the gates
OliIzzy 10 months ago
FINALLY. Every time I watch Avatar, I think "that's the music from Enemy at The Gates" and I am glad to find that someone else noticed it as well.
ThaPhenomKid 11 months ago
@ThaPhenomKid My thoughts exactly.
kaktuscar86 10 months ago
lol omg
silvertusk 11 months ago
they used the same song .. and what?.. is it disturbing anyone? i noticed that the day i saw avatar in theater .. and btw in my opition enemy at gate > avatar :)
avatar is still an awesome movie but enemy at gate is a classic imo
lParoXismel 11 months ago
Thank you Rachmaninoff for your amazing music. Screw you James Horner.
fierydog 11 months ago
That's so funny that how these for notes works for James Horner and the composer of seven pounds (Angelo Milli)...!
mahyar1362 11 months ago
Y'know, I recently heard this in Doctor Who! Series 5, episode 8, it's in there quite a bit. Weird, it looks like Murray Gold stole the four-note battle cry.
Hawkalina 11 months ago
Yeah, he is repetitive. Try listening to “Braveheart” and then “Bicentennial Man”, the main theme is identical almost note for note.
You should do a Hans Zimmer track comparison. However good he is, he also recycles motifs.
Sanhadrian 1 year ago
@Sanhadrian Zimmer does recycle. Compare Black Rain to Batman begins, King Arthur to Pirates 2, and even Pearl Harbor to The Last Samurai. Nevertheless, I love his work. That also goes to Horner--he's still a decent composer. Braveheart & Cocoon are my 2 favs of his.
MOTHMAN225 11 months ago
I noticed that in Avatar you can hear a repition of the same sound in some parts and it sounds just like the music in Enemy at the Gates.
greildeal1028 1 year ago
Star Trek II's score was also reused/cycled in Cocoon ... the boat chase scene. But, many great composers evolve their music, it's a common theme. Horner's a genius, his music is stunning, evocative, passionate.
MicheldeNostredame12 1 year ago
Also, that Willow poster is badass. I wish they kept that for the DVD edition.
ZachChis 1 year ago
I never noticed the little recycling he did of his Star Trek scores for Troy. Neat.
ZachChis 1 year ago
Damn, I thought I recognized that riff from Avatar when I watched Troy...
techneonix 1 year ago
Now, after watching this video... i feel embarrased that a guy like Horner recycles so much. But as I understood by Troy, he only had 11 DAYS! So he had to cannibalize alot of his older scores to make it fit to the picture.. So if under pressure I can understand.. but why use that ALL THE TIME?? :) Originality, lost.. The last score that I felt was different was the ALIENS score. ambiences, never heard the 4 note danger motif in that movie. So happy about that. And True Lies I think. Great stuff
lone1980 1 year ago
Avatar is the best movie ever made special effects wise.. Period hands down.
Natebeats 1 year ago
cant find wagners parsifal act 2.. help?
DeviousPsy 1 year ago
he loves slipping in that little triple trumpet beat in doesnt he. im calling it that for lack of a better description
gar3th90 1 year ago
0:42-1:52
Avatar OST - 10, The Destruction of the Home Tree - end fragment
miromino92 1 year ago
also
-"Exploring the forest" 0:51-1:30 in Boy in the stripped pyjamas vs. a charlotte church theme in beautiful mind (I dont know name of the song but the video is called "Charlotte Church" and it was uploaded by "CChurchfan" 1:52-2:50.
senormartus 1 year ago
Hey, I'm also very intrigued by James Horner's "recycled" themes.
I found several other themes that were very similar (apart from the 4 note motif) in case you're interested if you make another video.
-"the machine age" in bicentennial man vs. "kaleidoscope of mathematics" in Beautiful Mind.
senormartus 1 year ago
i knew this was on enemy at the gates, and when i saw avatar, i noticed it the first time and it bugged me a lot. .
Flalaski 1 year ago
watsthe name of the first song please?
777444999 1 year ago
@777444999 "Shutting Down Grace's Lab" from the Avatar soundtrack... well, obviously. lol
jg2904 1 year ago
There is an other track composed by James Horner wich use this theme at trumpet. This is the beginning of "The Funeral" extract from "The Boy in Striped Pyjamas".
flitno 1 year ago
:'( I cryed in the movie, when there homes got destroyed.
RainstormWindClan 1 year ago
@RainstormWindClan " their" homes not there homes retard
dakiler2028 1 year ago
@dakiler2028 The person made a spelling error - big deal! It takes a TRUE retard to go around calling others "retard" for something so trivial!
jagguy1225 1 year ago
I wonder if he makes a discount for delivering this scores.
VassiliZaitsev05 1 year ago
I've traced the riff as far back as "Lillian's Heart Attack" in Brainstorm (1983). Can anybody name any earlier scores with it?
I still love Horner's music, though he'll never be as diverse as Goldsmith was.
jg2904 1 year ago 9
@jg2904 If you read the description, you would see "King Kong" (1976).
ferociousfrankie 1 year ago
@ferociousfrankie You know, I read the whole description and somehow missed the only one with a date beside it. Sorry! I wouldn't have caught that anyway as I'm not necessarily the greatest John Barry or Dino De Laurentiis "King Kong" fan.
But of course Wagner was the ultimate first. The man practically invented film scoring, despite never writing one!
jg2904 1 year ago
@ferociousfrankie I believe you should put a link to "Rachmaninov Symphony No. 1 - I Grave - Allegro ma non troppo" here.
erghtrfgh 8 months ago
@erghtrfgh best comment ever.
00aru00 7 months ago
@jg2904 Unbelievable, I'm watching that movie right now, I new about the others and I thought the fourth (in this case the first) was kinda too much.
VassiliZaitsev05 1 year ago
@jg2904 Agreed. Even John Williams reuses some of his work. Compare E.T. and Home Alone, no doubt similar, and Hans Zimmer with Black Rain and Batman Begins. Goldenthal is another one who reuses some of his work too. Nevertheless, all of them are excellent composers.
MOTHMAN225 1 year ago
@jg2904 Agreed - Goldsmith was sensational. Horner used the same motif in Star trek II (1982) but not sure if this was the first time he used it. And yes - it's from King Kong!
scaper3 1 year ago
@scaper3 Really? I don't remember the 4-note motif in Star Trek II, though I've heard its obvious precursors and his 80s horn trills. That got a little old after Wolfen, Star Trek II, Star Trek III, Aliens, etc. Especially as it all sounds like a follow up to Goldsmith's Outland. lol
jg2904 1 year ago
@jg2904 I believe the four note motif was used for Khan
FishfilmInc 7 months ago
@FishfilmInc I suppose so - tacked on after the first three notes of his theme. Should we count that? lol
jg2904 7 months ago
@jg2904 Rachmaninoff Symphony No. 1. 1895.
gphilipsparks 10 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@jg2904 dude jerry goldsmith was really repetitive. i love jerry goldsmith, and i love james horner. but to say horner wasnt as diverse as goldsmith is inaccurate in my opinion.
jamoe007 10 months ago
@jamoe007 I don't mean to sound rude, but I question how much you know about Jerry Goldsmith in this case. When has he ever repeated whole melodies from score to score or cloned his musical style for two different films? Sure, you can draw similarities here and there, like the central American music in the scores to Caboblanco, Under Fire, and Medicine Man, but even those three scores are all stylistically and melodically different in there unique own way. Same can't be said for Horner usually..
jg2904 10 months ago 10
@jg2904 Goldsmith is awesome! The Omen, Total Recall, Chinatown, 13th Warrior are among my favorites.
MOTHMAN225 7 months ago
@jg2904 This is just a straight rip off of the opening to Rachmaninoff's 1st Symphony, Allegro ma non troppo. So it goes well beyond 1983 (and 1976)
whitfield12 7 months ago
i knew that the second one was copied the second i heard it in the movie fuckin piss off styll like yd he hav to do it look at inception and its sound track soo cool and as far as i know original!!!
nomoreusernamesleft1 1 year ago
@nomoreusernamesleft1 Pish posh, Zimmer is just as self-recycling in style as Horner. The Inception soundtrack has similarities to everything from The Thin Red Line to Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. He's kinda become the John Barry of the 2000s...
jg2904 1 year ago
I have no problem with ripping yourself off. You have to be pretty pedantic to pick all the similarities up in those songs. As for that 4 note 'riff', hell maybe he's set a challenge for himself to include that in every score he does. Good on him I say.
CameltoeCaptain 1 year ago
omg i looooooooooooooooove the second avatar song!
smukase 1 year ago
I can't remember a single song from this shit box of a movie
popolynn2 1 year ago
enemy at the gates is the greatest movieee
SNOOKIizUGLY 1 year ago
@SNOOKIizUGLY Not "the greatest" but still DAMN good! :P
livingmylifeatmach2 1 year ago
since when?
What about John Williams and Howard Shore and the other REALLY great music composers?
Zblorg117 1 year ago
@Zblorg117 Sir, please read the comment I was replying too.
In future, do so before stepping in on another Comment.
livingmylifeatmach2 1 year ago
Also in Seven Pounds.
Angelo Milli - Requiem
jma1994 1 year ago
in the boy with striped pyjamas it's the same....
superninja270 1 year ago
haha I've been thinking about making this exact same video for a while. Looks like you beat me to it. Can't believe how often he reuses this motif. His name is written all over the bloody posters he doesn't need to keep signing the score.
Gustaffo07 1 year ago
Avatar also stole other music from other films. I made a video regarding that.
MichaelJacksonFan000 1 year ago
Yup, I've noticed this before. C'mon Horner - you think we don't notice these cut and paste jobs? And it's not just him - check out Gladiator, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Rock, Pearl Harbor and Metal Gear Solid II – all done by Hans Zimmer. Maybe a lot of people don't notice this stuff, but I do and it definitely detracts the moments in my mind.
hamb1e 1 year ago
@hamb1e I agree with you that Zimmer's music has some similarities at times, but Metal Gear Solid II was Harry Gregson Williams.
marvinmart5 1 year ago