2011 Ascot - Queen Elizabeth II Stakes - Frankel

[bazbizzler]

no, the pace-maker at the front ran a 10.99. but regardless, black caviar never runs a sectional over 11 unless its the sectional out of the gate at a standing start, or when she's already 5 lengths clear and is easing up on the line, even then she runs about a 11.2 while the jockey takes a nap.

and Australian horses have run slower, the same, and quicker over there. generally with races up to a mile its pretty much the same (slower times if theyre an average horse)

[regginald81]

@bazbizzler download the sectionals from the britishchampionseries website under race results and you will see that Frankel ran 10.99 - fact! Come back to me when BC runs the last 3f at Ascot in under 33 seconds. It depends on the track and track conditions. If you get good/firm going then those kind of sectionals are only just about in reach

[bazbizzler]

frankel didnt break 11.5sec for 1 single furlong in this race. black caviar never has a sectional (apart from the one from a standing start out of the gates) over 11sec. usually does them in about 10.3sec. distance isnt going to be an issue... black caviar has already won at 7f, just has to step up 1 more furlong. if black caviar races at her usual speed up to 7f, she will be (and this is based on frankel vs caviars sectionals) around 7sec ahead of frankel with 1f left.

[regginald81]

@bazbizzler i think you'll find he ran a 10.99 furlong in this race, jesus at least do your research before you making such a claim. She may well run her furlongs quicker and as a sprinter she is entitled to do that. Tell me this though, why have do the Aussies horses to have raced in the uk run about 2-3 seconds slower than they do in Australia?

[flickyflicky007]

@regginald81 Black Caviar ran a 9.98 Furlong last weekend in the lightening stakes!!! Frankel is too scared to take on Black Caviar

[regginald81]

@flickyflicky007 Again Aussie horse don't run that fast in the UK, its almost impossible and i can guarantee that BC won't be running those kind of sectionals over here. Don't forget 1f is longer than 200m anyway. I would also say that Peter Moody is the one who is scared (a realist i would think) as he has said they won't be aiming here at the Queen Anne at Ascot.

[bbaacckkeerrss]

please mate, dont get me started. alverta came 3rd in your most "prestigious" sprint race, the king stand. that horse would be lucky to win a rating 75 at Dubbo. star witness came second in the king stand and had been battered by black caviar by 5+ lengths multiple times, scenic blast won the king stand and likewise has been beaten by black caviar by 5+ length multiple times... my point is we have been mopping the floor with your mules with our second rate sprinters, just wait for the real deal

[CharlesOlney23]

Official betting for a Black Caviar and Frankel race in Queen Anne (if it happens)

Frankel 4/6

Black Caviar 5/4

Anybody that says that isn't a good market is a fool.

[ThefightingCelt]

@CharlesOlney23 Frankel @ 4/6 would be stealing money

[CharlesOlney23]

@ThefightingCelt true

[manikato75]

@CharlesOlney23 Hope it happens but dont think it will,distance an issue.

[fletch90akaledgend]

black caviar u wouldnt stand a chance against this machine !!!!!!!!!FRANKEL

[CharlesOlney23]

Australia and their sprinters. Nobody can deny that they do in fact make brilliant sprinters. But brilliant sprinters alone and alas not world class classic winning horses. I agree with my learned friend that the Ascot Gold Cup is the premier long distance race in the world (by class) whereas the Melbourne Cup is the more prolific (like the Cheltenham Gold Cup is a better standard but the Grand National more prolific). I would like to see more Aus horses come over. The Arc is worth $5,000,000aus

[debbider]

Black Caviar would destroy this donkey

[lrttidmarsh]

@debbider Ur a mug if ya think that!

[1977Futre]

@debbider no chance

[Ozipeter]

Black Caviar and Frankel - I would like to see that

[1australianbeacon]

He beat senic blast who brained world champions in England 2009 and other who have taken on those in other countrys. Autralian breed horse are know for their speed horses. And BC hasnt been shown the whip yet.

[CharlesOlney23]

By the way don't listen when these Aussies tell you Black Caviar hasn't been whipped yet because she was in her 4th race when she won by about 3/4 length. Not taking anything away because all horses need a gee-up at some time.

[MrJakobBrown]

@CharlesOlney23 You do know she blundered the start in that race and tore muscles in her chest ? Didn't race for 5 months. Good point though doofus.

[CharlesOlney23]

@MrJakobBrown Oh yes I did watch the race as well as understand the circumstances and given that it wasn't nice to watch. I was just stating that she has been whipped and even though she suffered in that, people cannot say she hadn't been whipped. They should define their statement.

[leedelaney70]

@CharlesOlney23 lol lol lol at least be armed with the facts when posting. In that race Black Caviar slipped as she jumped and she tore a muscle. She still won beating subsequent Grp1 winner Wanted !!! She was immediately spelled for 4 months and missed the Spring Carnival as a consequence of her injury. She then injured herself again in her comeback run, which she of course won & she was spelled again this time for 9 months missing the big sprint races of the Summer/Autumn

[leedelaney70]

@CharlesOlney23 She made amends the next Autumn though, winning 5 consecutive Group 1's incl 1200m Newmarket Hcp with 58kg's stopping the clock at 1:07.36. She clearly could have broken 1:07 had she been ridden out.

[CharlesOlney23]

@leedelaney70 I did infact watch that race and it was hard not to be impressed when one hears afterwards what actually happened. It was good to see her come back and win so I was not "having a go" at Black Caviar but rather stating a fact. This fact should be held in mind when people say 'Black Caviar has not been hit with the whip' I would just like to hear people define what they are saying, eg: she has only been hit when she tore a muscle. As opposed to: she has never been hit

[HadleyReisMC]

they were clapping for him before he even ran just shows what a great horse he is probably the best flat horse to have ever lived well certainly the best horse over 1 mile so far. can't wait to see him step up to 1m 2f, should have gone for the derby cause he would have won it. good that the owner is keeping him in training though if I owned him I wouldn't be doing it, he's worth what 300mil? I know he was worth about 180mil before this win but then you have to factor in everything else

[BetterInFull]

Frankel is the best miler in the world and perhaps the best of all time! If Black Caviar wants to be tested she can travel to take on Frankel, not the other way around. Unfortunately for her she will lose and lose big time and so I don't see this happening.

[MrNativeDancer]

@BetterInFull He has to improve 10-11lbs to draw level or be the best horse on the flat of all time! Sea Bird 145lbs Frankle 135lbs He could well improve that much when he steps up in trip during 2012. He is still behind Mill Reef and Secretariat on the Flat but remember hes still a baby, and he wont have his weight for age allowance this year. Its gonna be tougher for him, but he has every chance of proving hes the best of all time, he certainly best in my life time anyways! Super Horse!

[1australianbeacon]

Bring him here to australian and Black Caviar will beat him she hasnt even been hit with the whip yet.

[MrNativeDancer]

@1australianbeacon What distance would you run them at as one is a Miler and one is a Sprinter? Plus how would you handicap them? Weights... Unless Black Caviar steps up to 10-12 furlongs I cant really see them ever racing against each other? So all the comparing is none informative. BC best sprinter Frankel best Miler cant compare really until they meet. No one can say which one would beat the other its pointless. Both top top champions!

[1australianbeacon]

@MrNativeDancer 1400m would be fare. Frankle hasnt a hope as I said the Black C hasnt even been hit with the whip. You can see in he run in front and left alone to dictate the pace he win easy but if he doent he dont look that much of a champion. The black C for mine.

[HadleyReisMC]

@1australianbeacon Black Cavier beats the same horses all the time.. and she also hasn't done all of her winning at the top class level (is there even a top class level in Australia, I doubt it), most of her wins have come in group 2's and

from what I've seen she has just been beating the same horses repeatedly

[fozzyfisherman]

@HadleyReisMC agreed , such as haylist , frankel would kill BC

[leedelaney70]

@HadleyReisMC She's WON 8 GROUP 1 races from 1000m - 1400m and she has THRASHED 16 individual Group 1 winners so talk sense will you !

[HadleyReisMC]

@leedelaney70 I couldnt care less about BC. She has nothing on Frankel, shes a stone inferior to this fella

[HadleyReisMC]

@1australianbeacon all of these australians come on these Frankel vids and talk shit saying BC would beat Frankel well that is clearly bullshit as proven by the world ratings.. Frankel is rated 12lbs superior to BC and it's going to stay that way next year too

BC will get beat at some stage and then the Aussies will be crying

same story with So You Think all of you Aussies were talking him up and then he came over to England and got beat and then beaten again in the Arc..

[bbaacckkeerrss]

@HadleyReisMC thats because So You Think went from an Australian genius trainer (Bart Cummings) to some irish spastic (Aiden O'brien). o'brien is the biggest joke of a trainer out there, and constantly gets laughed at by our trainers when he brings his two bit "superstar" european stayers and instructs them to lead all the way in the worlds most prestigious 2 mile race (Melbourne Cup). He finally has a horse that can race on the pace and he rides it fucking cold..... great horse gone to waste

[trueunited12]

@bbaacckkeerrss o brien is one of the best trainers around, simple as, so shut the fuck up

[manikato75]

@trueunited12 Bart Cummings mops the floor with o'brien!!!trainer overrated not the horse

[leedelaney70]

@trueunited12 Aiden O'Brien has admitted several times himself he got So You Think's preparation wrong and you can even watch him here on youtube admitting it !!!!! So You Think excelled with 2 month racing preps in Australia and O'Brien decides to keep him racing for 7 months in his 1st racing prep in Nth Hemisphere. Oh the wisdom of the fella....

[MBernier08]

@bbaacckkeerrss I think it's a combination of the two...I do believe Aidan O'Brien is one of the best trainers in the world, but I believe he has made a few errors as far as race choices are concerned. At the same time, I think So You Think is a bit overrated in the grand scheme. This isn't a shot at either one of them - both top class trainer and horse; I just think O'B has put SYT in some tough spots and SYT is facing superior competition each race compared to what he faced in Australia.

[ThefightingCelt]

@bbaacckkeerrss I don't see many Australian trained horses been sent over to contest Europe's most prestigious mile and a half races - The Derby and Prix De L'Arc de Triomphe - or the most prestigious stayer's race ( A NON HANDICAP ! ) - The Ascot Gold Cup, run over 2miles 4 furlongs ! At least Aidan O'Brien ( who is a brilliant trainer, incidentally) has the balls to venture over to OZ, whereas old Bart Cummings has never once come over to Britain, Ireland or France to take on our best.

[leedelaney70]

@ThefightingCelt The Derby is for 3yo's bred to Northern Hemisphere time & The Arc coincides with the world famous Melbourne Spring Racing Carnival. Anyway, why would we send our horses to contest your so called prestigious races when they are run for 2 bob and a pat on the back ? In Australia we run for real money.

[leedelaney70]

@ThefightingCelt Just look at the records of past Ascot Gold Cup winners in the Melbourne Cup (the unofficial world championship stayers race). They generally finish tailed off. Even 4 time Ascot Gold Cup winner Yeats could only manage a plodding 7th when he contested the Melbourne Cup. Makybe Diva would have picked him up & carried him from the furlong pole ! Hence the reason Makybe Diva won AU$14.5 mill to Yeats approx AU$2.5 mill !!!!!

[ThefightingCelt]

@leedelaney70 Yeats was lumped with top weight in that glorified 2 mile handicap - a handicap which actually suits horses who are nicely weighted, and moreover, horses who have raced and won at distances below 2 miles prior to the MC. Makybe Diva was a very good horse, no doubt about it, but had that horse's trainer and owners had the balls to send MD over for the Ascot Gold Cup then it would have been a different story. Prize money in Australia is much higher than in GB - hence why MD won more.

[leedelaney70]

@ThefightingCelt and Makybe Diva won the Melbourne Cup with top weight, as did Phar Lap, amongst many others. Champion horses can win with top weight. Sadly Yeats is no champion. You just answered your own question with regards to Makybe Diva not going to run in the Ascot Gold Cup. Why would anybody send any horse to the other side of the world to run in a less prestigious race for 10 times less prizemoney ? That would be just plain stupid !!!

[ThefightingCelt]

@leedelaney70 Flemington is a flat oval, track and it takes a particular type of horse to win the Melbourne Cup there. Irish trained horse, Vintage Crop, won the cup for Dermot Weld. He was a good stayer but ask anyone connected with horse racing on this side of the globe; even Dermot Weld himself, and they will tell you that he was not in the same class as Yeats. The Ascot Gold Cup is an extremely hard race to win. It is run over 4 extra furlongs than the MC and on a stiffer, undulating track

[bbaacckkeerrss]

@ThefightingCelt #1 no Australian horses come over for the ($5M AUD) Arc De Triomphe because it is held in october, less than a month away from OUR most prestigious 2 mile race the Melbourne Cup ($6.5M AUD). What kind of idiot in their right mind would travel to the other side of the world for less money and jeopardise the chance at winning more money on their own shores? #2 no australian horses have been to the Derby because it's a fucking 3yo race, when was the last time a 3yo brit was here?

[bbaacckkeerrss]

@ThefightingCelt #3 Bart Cummings has never sent one of his stayers to the UK because he thinks your racing is a joke over there, even quoted as saying "not worth two bob" smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/b­ritish-racing-not-worth-two-bo­b-20111030-1mqe4.html ... I'm sorry, but Bart has won 12 melbourne cups, his opinion is greater than some spastic from a country that still hasn't worked out how to put flouride in their tap water so their teeth dont keep falling out.

[regginald81]

@bbaacckkeerrss If you have a great horse then you want to be in the most prestigious race. A MC winner doesn't quite have the same ring to it as an Arc winner. And lets get one thing straight here if any of your trainers had a horse they thought had a chance in the Arc then they would send it over, because if it won the extra breeding money they would get would easily eclipse the extra prize money on offer for the MC. The best middle distance horse you have had in decades (SYT)

[bbaacckkeerrss]

@regginald81 sorry mate i stopped reading your jibberish when you said an Australian trainer would rather win an Arc than a Melbourne Cup, hahaha. like i said the Arc is on at a time which is inconvenient for a MELBOURNE CUP preparation, hence why no australian horses/trainers go over there for it... pull your head in you muppet

[regginald81]

@bbaacckkeerrss got found out when he came here. He is a top class group 1 performer but he just wasn't quite good enough, but sure enough he was consistent and always ran within a lb or two of his rating. And the hysteria surrounding BC after her latest run is crazy. We know nothing more about her now than we did before they race. All she has proved is that she can run 7f, not race 7f and people saying here that she would smash Frankel are delusional, especially based upon her latest run.

[bbaacckkeerrss]

@regginald81 fuck i dont know how many times i need to tell you, SYT has performed under EXPECTATION purely because of aiden o'briens training/preparation/schedulin­g/riding tactics, NOTHING else, this horse is a champion... trained poorly... average results

[regginald81]

@bbaacckkeerrss yeah you keep telling yourself that mate if it makes you feel better. The funny thing is he has run to pretty much the same rating as he was given before he came over so he hasn't performed under real expectations just the ones his fans on here gave him. The real reason is the strength in depth in the middle distance ranks in Europe, and i wouldn't consider last year as a vintage one either.

[regginald81]

@bbaacckkeerrss The comparison over here would be like Frankel running 8f over somebody like Opinion Poll, walking almost for the first 5f and then having a sprint at the end, he'd win by 10 lengths! People should stop making such outrageous claims when they don't even know if BC can run a fast paced 7f race well let alone a stiff 8f at Ascot.

[bbaacckkeerrss]

@regginald81 ah mate, BC donkey licked a very strong field just this weekend over 7F, the bookies are offering $1.75 for BC to beat Frankel ($2.05) in the queen anne in june, i'm thinking about handing my mortgage papers over to the bookies to put on BC

[ThefightingCelt]

@bbaacckkeerrss Bart Cummings is considered a joke figure over here. He is a "homer" - rarely venturing away from the easy pickings in his own under populated dust bowl. The Melbourne Cup is a handicap - very much in the same mould as our world popular Grand National. That is, both are races which capture the public imagination but in terms of quality they attract lesser class horses. The Cox Plate is a better race in my opinion, as our Cheltenham Gold Cup is a higher quality event than the GN.

[bbaacckkeerrss]

@ThefightingCelt lol "under populated dustbowl", opposed to "over populated racial cesspool with the aroma of curry and teenage pregnancy". mate i dont think bart cummings really cares, he's won a dozen MC's something that aiden obriens been trying to do for over a decade, all of your "champion" horses that come here get brained, yeats, septimus, profound beauty, holberg, bauer, manighar... please just concentrate on the ashes, its the only way you can give us australians a contest

[regginald81]

@bbaacckkeerrss Wouldn't have anything to do with the big weights they have to carry over there would it? The MC isn't really suited to an Ascot Gold Cup type horse as they probably need further in OZ to make it a true stamina test.

[ThefightingCelt]

@bbaacckkeerrss All those horses you mention, apart from Yeats, were nothing more than good handicappers. They were were not, as you wrongly say, "champions." Why on earth would we send over our best group 1 or even group 2 horse to contest a 2 mile handicap race, run on a glorified dog track in Melbourne. Yeats, for what ever reason, didn't acclimatise and certainly show anything close to his true ability. In Britain or Ireland, he would have defeated any MC winner of the past 50 years.

[bbaacckkeerrss]

@ThefightingCelt why would they send them over? uhh... because the prize money is around double?

[regginald81]

@bbaacckkeerrss you do realise that the people who own these horses could give a shit about prize money. Breeding is where the money is made and this requires the horse to compete i the most prestigeous race (i.e. Europe)

[HadleyReisMC]

@1australianbeacon Frankel > Black Cavier

haters will hate..

[manikato75]

@HadleyReisMC Frankel great against average horses

[HadleyReisMC]

@manikato75 average horses? lol...

he beat treasure beach by 10 lengths as a 2yo, he went on to finish 2nd in the Derby and win multiple g1's in america/canada

he beat Nathaniel also as a 2 year old..

he beat multiple g1 winner Canford Cliffs as a 3yo

and he also beat multiple g1 winners in this race

black cavier beats the same horses in g2 contests and she is rated 12 lbs inferior to Frankel so you are deluded

[s3177000]

@HadleyReisMC OMFG LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL OMG LOL LOS XH XNG CGN CNG CNG I AM IN MAX ROFL MODE ATM OMG

[manikato75]

@HadleyReisMC Have a look at Black Caviar's 18th straight win,im sure over 1200m she will kick alot of dirt in Frankel's face

both great horses 2 different distances,Black Caviar never been hit with the whip

keep it real ;-)

[HadleyReisMC]

@manikato75 she wins weak g1's, that's the jist of it

[manikato75]

@HadleyReisMC Just a reminder the was 19th straight win yesterday for Black Caviar,over 1200m BC would mop the floor with the great Frankel,hopefully Frankel will race against good horses soon.

Keep it real.

[TheDarleyarabian]

Yanks are so full of themselves just coz frankel isnt a yank horse they dont rate him. just accept it he would batter anything uv got and show a bit of respect 4 the best horse on the planet rite now he will show you bitter yanks next year at santa anita.

[bloodsuckerjohn]

yep same pat that won on golden fleece and quest for fame and irish derby on el gran senor a few weeks later i think pat thought he would find more than he did

[wibbleywobbleydeux]

I don't understand why people have such a problem with Tom Queally, he's never got Frankel beaten, and as for people saying there's 'too much hype' around him, what do you expect? He's destroyed about 14 individual subsequent group one winners virtually without breaking a sweat. People are obviously going to rave about him because he's potentially the best we've ever seen!

[watchinginawe]

@wibbleywobbleydeux I think you're being very kind to Master Queally. That ride in The St James Palace Stakes was one of the worst rides I have ever seen and the horse defied the odds to hang on there. The reason Frankel has never been beaten has very little to do with Queally, moreso the brilliance of the horse. He is a young jockey learning his trade and suffers from occasional rushes of blood to the head. If Frankel were my horse, I would have a much cooler guy on board.

[MrNativeDancer]

@wibbleywobbleydeux Yes and as I have said before, he is on 135lbs now and only 4 years old, if he improves another 10lbs he will of beaten the great Secretariat by 1lb He is only 11lb off being the best horse in the entire history of flat racing. Sea Bird 145lbs Secretariat 144lbs Mill Reef 141lbs Not sure if he can do that in just one season, but if he stays sound in 2012 then comes back again as a 5 year old in 2013 just maybe he will beat the Likes of Sea Bird??

[manikato75]

@MrNativeDancer All great horses but these horses never achieved anything no-where near what Phar Lap achieved in his career

PL won 4 group 1 races in 7 days from 1 mile to 2miles

won the 2mile Melbourne Cup as a 4 year old carrying 138 pounds

lost 3 of his last 35 races(SEc lost 3 of his last 10)

won from 6 furlong to 2 3/4 mile

raced on dirt for the 1st time and won the worlds richest race at Agua with a cracked hoof in his winter coat

thats a racing career

[MrNativeDancer]

@manikato75 Agree! with you there! Phar Lap was a very special horse, some people said he had an extra big heart? not sure if its true? But that Melbourne Cup let me tell you was more impressive that it actually looked. I doubt we will see another horse do what he did anytime soon either. Do you know if they bred from him? would be interesting to find horses with him in the pedigree?

[manikato75]

@MrNativeDancer Died 2 weeks after his last race at Agua,possible poisoning or too much colic.So no

[HadleyReisMC]

@manikato75 Nice troll - retard?



[MyHorseLife95]

Frankel is a great horse no doubt about it, no one can deny that! He constantly tries his hardest and wins! 

[Pizzdov]

This horse is so good he's almost as good as the mighty Dancing Brave let's hope he trains on to be even better!!!

[thehonzie1]

If Frankel is the worlds best thoroughbred, them showcase it next year in the Breeders Cup Mile. I want to see Frankel in that race if hes healthy and fit in the fall.

[thehonzie1]

Im sick of this horse. Please bring Frankel to North America next year and watch him run out of the money. I can hear the excuses now

[SugarRay1985]

@thehonzie1 You are sick of this horse because hes not American,surely you can see that this animals form is bombproof? look at the horses he's beaten,just stick to supporting your over-rated American horses.

[drofheim]

Miler*

[drofheim]

Frankel is a milde-middle distance, Black Caviar is a sprinter, please shut the fuck up on this debate its pointless.

[watchinginawe]

Shows how amazing this horse is that some people were slightly disappointed with this performance. Only the admirable Excelebration got within 8 lengths of him! I have to say as well that I honestly believe that with a better jockey these margins of victory would be even wider. I get the impression Frankel is controlling Queally rather than the other way round. Oh for a young Pat Eddery to smoothly deliver this beast at the right time. The master would get it right a la Pebbles in 1985.

[Pactrolus]

@watchinginawe Hmmn! Would that be the same Pat Eddery (a great jockey) who got El Gran Senor beat in The Derby?

[watchinginawe]

@Pactrolus I guess when you've ridden for several decades and tens of thousands of rides there might be the odd one that goes slightly awry, but he got a lot more right than wrong! Remember, the other jockeys still to this day call Pat Eddery "God" in appreciation of his skills. I have heard several say that even experienced jockeys were in awe of him and what he brought to a ride.

[Pactrolus]

@watchinginawe As I said, he was a great jockey. It can also be said of Queally that he gets more right than wrong. The only jockey that would have changed Frankel is Lester Piggott. He would have had him winning by a maximum of two lengths. We still wouldn't know how good the horse is!

[CharlesOlney23]

Mos likely course of 2012:

Lockinge Stakes (G1) Newbury (May) 8 furlongs

Prince Of Wales Stakes (G1) Ascot (June) 10 furlongs

Coral Eclipse Stakes (G1) Sandown (July) 10 furlongs

Juddmonte International Stakes (G1) York (August) 10 furlongs

Qipco Champion Stakes (G1) Ascot (October) 10 furlongs

This being he is unbeaten and that he wins as good over 1m2f as 1m.

He would never run on dirt and there would be do point dropping back to a mile if he wins all the major 1m2f races (above).

[MBernier08]

I've been caught up watching replays of the less than stellar BC Classic, but I do need to revisit the BC Mile. The focus was on Goldikova, she ran decent, but clearly she's not what she once was. That said, if Frankel had made the trip here to the U.S., we may have had the first 1-5 shot in BC history. The result of that race only solidifies the fact that this is truly a once in a lifetime animal. IMO he would have embarrassed the field by at least 4, if not more. Hopefully Santa Anita in 2012.

[tock2000]

@MBernier08 Frankel won't race in the BC, Cecil will not ever want to put Frankel on the drugs (Lasix etc) horses are allowed to take in the US. So if he did go he would run without it (and still probably win) but could be a risk to it's unbeaten record...Frankel will probably race 4 times next year and retire!

[wasslic]

Anyone tell me if Frankel is carrying big weights in his races. Black Caviar set a weight record for mares when she destroyed them in the Newmarket. I still maintain that BC would win over 6f, Frankel over 8f and anyones guess over 7f.

Would be great if they ever raced

[thegun88888]

In 15 races Black Caviar has not been whipped once. She will destroy Frankel. Bring it on

[ASupremeOwl]

@thegun88888 Sick of seeing all the rubbish posted about Black Caviar. Possibly the most overrated horse in racing at the moment, Who is the best horse shes ever beat? Haylist. Fuck Me, Hardly setting the world alight. Shes yet to face Sepoy, Rocket Man etc. Shes gonna be a full 6 years old next year, Shes had 3 years to travel across the seas but as never done it once. The ratings speak for themself. Frankel 135 Black Caviar 128. Bring her over, There will be something around...

[ASupremeOwl]

@thegun88888 Why wasnt she at the Breeders Cup competing in the Turf Sprint? Instead she travelled round the corner 5 minutes from her stable to beat a set of horses shes clearly better than, At least Frankel doesn't duck a challenger. Bring her on, She'll be like any other horse to cross swords with Frankel. Retired and finished...

[scousee2]

@ASupremeOwl You are a god. Speak so much sense, put them both in Breeders Cup next year Frankel will still win. The Caviar fans will blame its age for the loss.

[damredub]

Frankel is just incredible. The time of the race is really immaterial. The faster they had travelled the further he would have won. Bring on Black Caviar. Frankel will devour her!

[147ard]

Im a bit surprised to see these furlong times because i thought Frankel could run Furlongs in under 11 seconds?

[98mercers]

@147ard he wasn't going flat out untill inside the last furlong when tom queally whipped him. u could see how much he quickened then.

[Esther2622w]

Thank you so much for making sure Ben got to see it. He did see it and said he thinks he is the best horse in training.

[GBeret83]

With all due respect to Goldikova, and what she's accomplished over the course of her career at a mile. I don't think I can ever recall a horse more explosive or dominant over a mile as Frankel has proven to be. I think Freddie Head is lucky that Khalid Abdullah and Henry Cecil aren't sending this brute to the BC Mile, or her 4th win in the race would be very unlikely, IMO. Can't wait to see him next season at middle distances. Even if he doesn't ever run 12f? I think he'll dominate at 10f. JMO.

[drofheim]

Lol molest, that should of said mile.

[drofheim]

There are TWO courses they used at Ascot that day, also first QEII on the straight mile, usually on the corner molest, times you can't compare, maybe you should compare Canford Cliffs time but it doesn't matter as Frankel destroyed Canford Cliffs anyway.

[MrCaspa21]

@drofheim That would probably explain it

[watchinginawe]

And it wasn't a case of Bullet Train going off far too fast at all. I think the sectionals for Frankel showed he dawdled the first furlong so it was a case of Queally choosing not to position his horse closer to the lead. I don't understand why Queally didn't just settle behind Bullet Train, dragging the others along faster, then explode at the 2f mark. Easy plan, I would say. If this wasn't the plan, I don't see why they ran Bullet Train.

[watchinginawe]

Hey, has anyone got any thoughts about why Queally chose not to follow Bullet Train? I don't really get it, I must admit and I'm thinking again that Queally's not really the man for the job. People seem to be slamming Mongan for not doing his job right, but I'm not so sure. Surely he was there to give Frankel a lead and ensure a true run race? But Queally just ignores him and lets him disappear into the distance and then has to break out alone from the pack to hunt him down. I don't get it?

[dubian99]

@watchinginawe i think he made the right decision, by staying with the field it put the focus on who could go with him when he went through the paces, none, leaving no doubt as to who's superior throughout the race, with no tactic excuses from the rest, plus why give him a hard race after all the efforts to get him to settle from off the pace, imo

[MrCaspa21]

Surely I'm not the only one who has realised how slow the overall time and the last 2 furlongs were. I am aware times aren't the best thing to judge form by but this is the same track where the course record for 10f was broken 40 minutes later. I may be being harsh but IMO a horse that is supposed to be the 4th best horse in history and the best miler ever should be winning in much more impressive times.

[ellams7397]

Frankel, best miler there has ever been. and now that he's stepping up in distance to 1m 2f next season he could well prove himself to be the horse in the history of racing!!!

[bgardiner2000]

Imagine having an unbeaten Black Caviar and unbeaten Frankel meet next year at Ascot. The way they are both going she would be 19-20 and Frankel 12-13? You couldn't write a better script. Although it's very unlikely to ever happen, the thought of it is still completely alluring.

[tjjlm444]

@bgardiner2000 i agree totally not only would the race be amazing think of the hype leading up to it.id have to think that it would turn out to be a match race because who in their right mind would enter their horse in that race knowing that the best your horse could possibly do is 3rd.i have been following racing for 30 years and i cant remember a time where you had 2 horses at the same time who are pretty much a lock to win and you know in racing nothing is a lock except for these 2.

[bgardiner2000]

@tjjlm444 Hopefully it will get to a point where there is enough cash put up to the connections for them to want to risk an unbeaten record, over a distance that is in between their best. 7F would probably be the best bet. I have no doubt that Black Caviar could run a world class mile, but Frankel appears to be even better than that over the distance.

[tjjlm444]

@bgardiner2000 i agree with your comment about bc i think she could be also.i honestly cant see frankel getting beat pretty much at any distance also his cruising speed is unreal then when hes asked to run it looks like it takes the heart out of any horse hes ever raced against.i hear people talking about frankels slow times which is bs i think if he came to the breeders cup this year hed probably run a sub 1:33 mile and win fairly easy.

[bgardiner2000]

@tjjlm444 The thing about slow times is that all horses in the race are running the same speed. It doesn't give anyone an advantage. Unless of course you are a long way back. Mile races in the US are normally run similar to the way they are run in ANZ with a lot more early speed. I can't wait to see Frankel in such a race. With the run-up employed in the US handicapping system I have no doubt Frankel could run sub-1:33 or faster.

[SugarRay1985]

This Horse was made for Piggott,Eddery not so sure,although im biased after seeing HIM lose the Derby on El Gran Senor.

[watchinginawe]

Surely someone at Ladbrokes is getting their balls chewed after the weekend! Who decided it was a good idea to lay Frankel and offer 1/2? There was nothing there to reach the conclusion Frankel would lose. He has been bulletproof and the only time he hasn't demolished the field is when Queally rode a very poor race, from which he seems to have learned a lesson. I didn't think for one minute that Frankel would not win this race. Crazy!

[dubian99]

@watchinginawe Stand up Mike ' Bob Carolgees' Dillon, who thought he would'nt win another group one after his 2000g effort,  i think he's offering 3/1 Greece avoiding default,

[watchinginawe]

@dubian99 Thanks Dubian mate, I bet he feels daft now. I just don't see where you'd get the idea he would lose that race. Totally surprised they would want to lay him.

[bloodsuckerjohn]

brilliant i would like to have seen pat eddery ride in his hey day would have sat motionless then woosh

[watchinginawe]

@bloodsuckerjohn spot on, mate. I've always thought Eddery would have been made for this horse. Harsh I know on Queally, but I'm sure Frankel would have been even more devastating with Eddery on board. The way Eddery rode Pebbles to that stroll in the 1985 Champion Stakes is the way he would have ridden Frankel every time.

[round999444]

Frankel is already retirement. It was an uncanny horse.

[thespacialone]

Sportiglife analysis: keen early held up, headway to chase clear leader halfway, led over 1f out, ridden and ran on (impressive).

Make that very impressive, galvanized at the 1/2 pole and saw it out brilliantly after possibly again asked for effort a touch early IMO

[thespacialone]

Who on earth would lay Frankel? I'd only consider it if he got beat, and you might go broke before that happens

[tommy444able]

nobody cares about the whip we care about all those posh inbred cunts who dont give a shit about the animals. nice 1 frank

[XLadyClaireX]

Actually, it was Frankel's ninth successive victory, not eighth. But he's a monster, and a quite fantastic racehorse.

[0318Fainmortion]

Thank you so much.I want to watch this race very much. This RACE is very GOOD.S.Tahara. P.S Very exciting RACE. Than JAPAN Horse RACING.