Murfreesboro Mosque Protest and Counter-Protest (2 of 4)

[sutonchef]

ISLAM DOES NOT SUPPORT FREEDOM OF RELIGION. MUSLIMS ARE BOMBING HINDU CITIES IN INDIA JUST THIS WEEK ISLAM KILLS CHRISTIANS IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN

CHRISTIANS ARE NOT FREE IN IRAN

[MrKilmax29]

Simple answer to stop having a mosque near you.. in seville,spain. local christians buried a pig on the construction site and spread the pigs blood on the ground, make sure this would be cover by thge local press. ISLAMIC RULES forbids the erecting of a mosque on a 'pig solied ground" the muslims had to cancel the project on land sold to them by the greedy government officials.

[jackinla8]

FACT: Islam is NOT just a religion. It is an intolerant + backward (9th century) THEOCRACY.

While we Americans live under a progressive Constitutional Law, Islam practices the strict and intolerant Sharia Law. That in a nutshell, represents a huge cultural conflict.

Is it wise to tolerate intolerance? What is now sadly referred to as Londonistan, is filled with "no-go zones" where non-muslims (including police) dare not enter. Google "no go zones"+Islam to see the violence Islam provokes.

[RoadTweeker]

@jackinla8 - Right!

[CaligirlSofia]

@jackinla8

that isnt a fact but your opinion moron hahaha look up the definition of opinion and fact

[CaligirlSofia]

bravo for those ppl who do not allow bigotry

[zzman305]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Learn it you dumb hicks

[CrudOMatic]

@Rbigray1 No, they are NOT. Allah was a pagan Arab god that Muhammed reformed into a monotheistic god.

[CrudOMatic]

So it's now bigoted to point out the TRUTH? Islam DOES support the killing of apostates.

Keep living your lie, liberals. The muslims will make you pay too.

[jackinla8]

No more mega-mosques in America -- look at how the Muslims have destroyed western Europe. After 30 years of mass immigration, the UK has been forced to accept Sharia. The leftist agitators (that are yelling "freedom now" were bused to town and are not residents. They too were paid off by the Saudis. That's how it works, folks. It's all about money.

[CaligirlSofia]

@jackinla8

its not a mosque but an islamic cultural center, and how the fuck did muslims destroy europe you freakin bigot, hahaha saudi arabia pays muslims to come to the west and accept their rights? wtf?

[jackinla8]

@CaligirlSofia - In Islam, all mosques are considered "cultural centers".

Your obviously poor level of education and hostile attitude is a perfect reflection of followers of the "religion of peace".

[CaligirlSofia]

@jackinla8

no actually they arent, a mosque is a building used only for praying, sometimes also for sunday school, so your wrong, so my attitude towards a bigot makes a reflection on 1.5 billion ppl? yes we do not tolerate bigots your right:)

[jackinla8]

@CaligirlSofia As always, you're illogical and incorrect. Learn how to spell correctly;

it's "you're" not "your".

[CaligirlSofia]

@jackinla8

who cares? im still right and your still a bigot

[CaligirlSofia]

@jackinla8

i am logical, you just dont like that do ya? who gives a shit about spelling this is youtube im not writing a letter, seriously that is all you can up with? is it b/c i have owned you?

[RoadTweeker]

@CaligirlSofia You're the ignorant bigot -- go back to the bloody jungles of Somalia where you belong!

[CaligirlSofia]

@RoadTweeker

i have never seen such an ironic and contradicting statement, im an ignorant bigot for believing in equal rights? and your calling me a bigot while you are being racist to me? wow

[geniuspers0n]

@jackinla8

looks whose talking? the little muzzie whose another islamic phobia. hehe i bet u have mosque near house am sure will make u deaf when is time to pray allah w akbar !! :D and thats good u need to pray so wake up!

[Wolfsbane909]

@Rbigray1 go ahead i dare u to rally to change the currency thats been printed like that for a longg time. I like 2 see which party will back that up, u have every right to. What's next? Swearing an oath on the Quran rather than the Holy Bible?

[Wolfsbane909]

i be standing on the side shouting "USA", it just makes sense; last time i checked on the dollar bill it says "in god we trust" not "in Allah we trust". They sure STFU after that.

[CaligirlSofia]

@Wolfsbane909

i know its says "God we trust" not "jesus(pbuh) we trust" , why? because of freedom of religion, allah only means God in arabic, your comment makes you look foolish

[CaligirlSofia]

@Wolfsbane909

no one knows wat your statement is suppose to mean

[Bombeni]

I saw the news today of the American fatass girl who is some kind of spokesperson for the cult of Islam wanting to build big mosque in Murfreesboro. If I had a daughter who married one of these hooknosed evil bastards who wipe their asses w/ their hands, it would be the worst day of my life.  Imagine, a girl so HONGRY for a man she would marry one of these evil bastards, bastards who all celebrated when their "brothers" flew planes into our towers and murdered thousands of our citizens.

[AzerChristians]

Sharia law for America ! Let's make all women submit to men ! LOL.... That would be ironic for America !

[IrishAustrianCath]

That faggoty long hair hippie with blond hair is a traitor to the white race and should be charged for his crimes

[yonisfarah]

@IrishAustrianCath Shame to hear this kind of rhetoric from an Irish. Your people were not even considered humans let along white. You must not know your history. I guess your skin got you blinded.

[82equinox]

I hate the fact that all these people chanting will realize one day that they were wrong. All religions have no logic, but Islam is by far the wrose.

[yonisfarah]

@82equinox What an ignorant thing to say. What you know about Islam and please don't tell me what you hear form others or the media?

[AngelOfSephiroth]

I love that sign "Freedom of religion FTW" :D

[lookylooky2006]

Tolerance is an important aspect to our religious freedoms

And Tolerance by its very nature involves sensitivity

If that sensitivity was being shown by those who want to build the mosque near Ground Zero, they would get the proper support to build mosques

Life is about give and take; being sensitive to others as far as CIVILITY GOES

So in black and white terms the mosques can be built anywheres

and in keeping with peace and harmony those same builders should shoulder the sensitivity aspect

[ILLHERBS]

Theses are the kind of protests that should turn voilent

[bealtown]

Freedom Now!

Sharia later?

Well, I'm all for USA. It was a nice moment when everyone was chanting it together. I hope our love of each other and the country we all were born in or moved to sufficiently motivates us to remain One Nation. Looks like a fun rally and I'm sad I missed it.

[Maritimerinthecity]

Great Job! Show the misguided people what Freedom is all about. Good on you. I like how you used the USA chant as well! nice work.

[rebeccatrishel]

Who organized the protest in the first place? I mean the anti-mosque side.

[pmcrimson]

@rebeccatrishel Kevin Fisher appears to be the original instigator of the protest, but Allen Jackson's (no relation to the country singer) World Outreach Church apparently supplied most of the protestors. I'll add links explaining this to the description.

Aspiring congresswomen Lou Ann Zelenik also threw her support behind the anti-mosque protestors. Her official (horrible) statement is linked to in video 1 of my posts from that day.

Thanks for your question!

[rebeccatrishel]

@pmcrimson Someone supplied the anti-mosque protesters with talking points (It's not about religion but about clear water and land and due process). I guess that was Kevin Fisher.

[pmcrimson]

@rebeccatrishel That indeed was Kevin Fisher. What I find telling is that although he made a speech about "due process" (which the Islamic Center had indeed followed to get approval for their new building), he had ample time in his speech to condemn the obviously anti-Muslim attitude (in chants and signs) that was constant in the anti-mosque crowd, yet did not take the opportunity. I don't think he even mentioned potential traffic problems or other alleged complaints.

[ChristianHamOperator]

Why is it we Christians always have to shut up and supress our Faith yet anytime a Muslim group cries foul everyone does all they can to kiss their behinds. People really need to research this faith and 'truly" understand what it's all about and then maybe they wouldn't be so eager to defend Mosque Projects!

[zeddsith1]

@ChristianHamOperator I wasn't there to kiss anyones behind, or be politically correct. I was there in support of Constitutional rights.As an atheist, it wouldn't matter what religion was facing opposition, I would be there to support their rights.I've lived in middle Tennessee most of my life and Christians rarely shut up and never suppress there faith. I almost expected to hear "my imaginary friend can beat up your imaginary friend".The thin veil of traffic concerns didn't last long that day.

[normaspleen]

@zeddsith1

please.. its not about religion. look to europe for example. london is being ghettoized into areas known as "non muslim no go zones". non muslim citizens are being warned not to go into these areas,as there have already been several instances of violence and assault on non muslims. rowan williams, archbishop of canterbury,said "it seems unavoidable" that sharia be incorporated into british law,which he calls "constructive accomodation". its here too,just look into dearborn michigan.

[zeddsith1]

@normaspleen If it's the mosques responsibility to make sure there are no radicals in their congregation,then the christian churches also need to provide me with proof that noone in their church is a radical that may bomb abortion clinics or kill doctors.

[normaspleen]

@zeddsith1

wow... the dude wasnt just some random guy in their congregation, he was A BOARD MEMBER. so yes, when appointing someone to a leadership position, it is THEIR responsibility. it was sooo easy for zelenik to find this stuff out about this rowash guy, but for some reason the mosque couldnt? give me a break.. they either just fail to look into who they appoint to leadership, or they have no concerns over radical ties.

[ChristianHamOperator]

@zeddsith1 Wake UP, stop being fooled by the so called moderate agendas and moderate approach. There will always be radicals in each Mosque because the faith itself is radical and dangerous! So by defending a mosque project you are doing nothing but helping Islam grow even more and gain another foot hold on another community! Yes it is about religion..it's about their religious dominance and take over in their minds.

[ChristianHamOperator]

@zeddsith1 Well I'll remember this when you say that we Christians never shut up because God has been taken out of everything because of you Atheirst who never shut up about being offended over God so you cry about it until you get your political correctness ways! Yes we do always have to shut up ....and if you atheist actually took enough time to reasearch Islam in a thorough manner maybe you wouldn't defend what it really teaches!

[ChristianHamOperator]

@zeddsith1 There is no doubt in my mind that bigotry lies within all faiths around the world but putting this asside, learn what islam teaches and see if it is something you'd agree with morally not religiously but morally! This garbage is evil so WISE UP

[zeddsith1]

@ChristianHamOperator Just because you can't preach in schools or have government offices say Jesus is better than the rest doesn't mean you've had to shut up. It just means you have all the freedom to worship at home and church as you see fit,same as everyone else.

[normaspleen]

@zeddsith1

you mean like this: in sep 2006, carver elementary, a publicly financed k-8 in san diego, absorbed somewhere around 100 muslims. to accomodate their religious customs,the admin. formed in effect a muslim school within the school, with arabic courses, modifying the cafeteria menu with islamic restrictions, gender seperated classes, as well as prayer led by an employee of the school district.. not to mention each class has a 15 minute "prayer break" for muslims. yet, no public uproar.

[normaspleen]

@zeddsith1

(cont) and then, following all of this, at the end of the year jeremy jereshcina, the years valedictorian at the school, was asked to submit his valedictorian speech for review. the school reviewed it and deemed it "unacceptable" for reference to jesus christ..... our society now cringes at the name of jesus, it is now "offensive" and "innappropriate", but not the same for muslims. and we all know it, so stop trying to act as if its not that way.

[ChristianHamOperator]

@zeddsith1 Why don't you try reading that garbage they consider religion. Then come back and tell me if you'd still defend their rights. Unless of course you are already a Muslim who follows that evil mess.

[pmcrimson]

@ChristianHamOperator Nobody's making you shut up. Thousands upon thousands of Christian churches have religious and social gatherings daily without anybody being arrested. Of all the street evangelists I've ever seen, not even the most obnoxious was ever arrested. Nobody is protesting churches being erected due to opposition to Christianity. A major Christian holiday (Christmas) is celebrated as a state holiday, and nearly all politicians profess Christianity. How are you being repressed?

[ChristianHamOperator]

@pmcrimson In a sense they are because anytime a Christian saays something about our faith or we try to defend it you get Muslims crying about it and wanting us to shut up. It's a double standard with them, they expect everyone to kiss their behinds and cater to them everytime they get offended which is just about all the time.

[pmcrimson]

@ChristianHamOperator Can you please provide examples of Christians making statements about Christianity (NOT about Islam), which Muslim groups whine about it, and what were the results of said "whining"? (After all, just as everyone is free to give their opinions, everyone is also free to give their opinions about other people's opinions.)

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

"Can you please provide examples of Christians making statements about Christianity (NOT about Islam), which Muslim groups whine about it, and what were the results of said "whining"?" ..... well, since you asked, in dearborn michigan a group of christians were standing on a street corner handing out gospel tracts to muslims, which mind you is unnacceptable to muslims, and these christians were arrested ILLEGALLY. how about that?

[yonisfarah]

@ChristianHamOperator Listen to yourself. When you offend our Prophet and attack our religion thats not something we should turn a blind eye on. We don't offend your religion at all. As matter of fact we love Jesus (peace be upon him) more then you guys do. Why do you ridicule our religion? You guys gave up on God long ago and worship the dollar bill more then God. Islam is not a Sunday after Football game religion. Its a way of life.

[ChristianHamOperator]

@yonisfarah Well one has to be a "true" prophet of God in order for he or she to be offended and Muhammad wasn't a true prophet. Yes i'm aware you mention Jesus in your Qur'an but it's a distorted & inaccurate description of Christ. I worship God everyday yes it's true we gather on Sunday but that doesn't limit us to worship God just on that day & we can worship whenever we want at anytime of the day, we don't need a schedule like you do to pray.

[yonisfarah]

@ChristianHamOperator Get lost loser. Your kind is on decline.

[ChristianHamOperator]

@yonisfarah ahhhh did I hit a nerve? Well you continue to follow that child molesting, murdering & raping filthy garbage of a false prophet and be content with that but just remember Jesus Christ is Lord, God Bless!

[IIxAxCxExII]

@ChristianHamOperator As a fellow christian, Everyone has the right to pray to whom ever they believe in NO MATTER WHAT. There are plenty of christian terrorist organizations to bud. Just to name a few: The KKK, The Army of God, Christian Patriot, Christian Identity, Lambs of Christ, Concerned Christians, Scott Roeder & Hutaree. All terrorist that acted violently in the name of Jesus Christ. The Lord. But...DFTT

[ChristianHamOperator]

@pmcrimson People are offended over the phrase "Merry Christmas" , you can't have the option of Bible Study in Schools anymore but I bet if Muslims wanted their times to pray they'd get it and of couse they do! The word God has been taken out of many schools version of the pledge of allegance. Many people complain about " IN God we Trust"

[pmcrimson]

@ChristianHamOperator The "War on Christmas" is a fake war. All that happened was that some advertisers had "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas" in their slogans because they wanted to appeal to wider demographic. Nobody has ever been forbidden to say "Merry Christmas" by their employers. That would be both unconstitutional and idiotic, as that would alienate customers rather than attract them.

Our nation separates church and state, so public schools don't pressure kids religiously.

[pmcrimson]

This means that no religion is given voice AS A SCHOOL FUNCTION in a PUBLIC school. That's fair, as it allows the kids to be religious individuals based on their parents' beliefs or lack thereof, which I'd think is exactly what religious folk would want. Why would you want public schools telling your kids what to think regarding religion? And, of course, there are plenty of private religious schools up and running in the U.S. If Christianity was oppressed, that wouldn't be so.

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

(cont) and then, following all of this, at the end of the year jeremy jereshcina, the years valedictorian at the school, was asked to submit his valedictorian speech for review. the school reviewed it and deemed it "unacceptable" for reference to jesus christ... i thought "no religion is given a voice in a public school"????

[pmcrimson]

"In God We Trust" was added to US money to differentiate us from Russian Communism. If it wasn't on our money, what practical effect would that have on your life? Would it change your religious views in any way?

I remember a priest once saying that mixing religion and state is like mixing ice cream and shit: the shit's no worse off, but the ice cream gets ruined. Likewise, I personally don't get why anyone would want religion and commerce united, as it would likely only corrupt religion.

[yonisfarah]

@ChristianHamOperator Muslims pray to God and they don't need permission from anyone. What is your problem? Why do you care what others think? If you fear God then by all means pray any where. Don't hold nothing against Muslims.

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

come on... aaronb down there says this:

"the bigoted pastor at the ironically named "World Outreach" Church" , and you respond and say "agreed". so please, what makes the pastor of w.o.c. "bigoted"?

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen Sorry, meant to say that their attitudes were ignorant and bigoted. There's no point in judging the people on my part.

I agreed with aaronb's statement because the pastor of World Outreach Church was one of the main organizers of the anti-mosque march -- which clearly and repeatedly expressed bigoted attitudes.

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

you say this "I agreed with aaronb's statement because the pastor of World Outreach Church was one of the main organizers of the anti-mosque march -- which clearly and repeatedly expressed bigoted attitudes. "

so because the pastor is protesting the mosque, and there are "bigots" in the protest, the pastor is therefore a "bigot" as well... by your logic then, because there are many radicals in islam, all muslims must be radical.. bc islam is repeatedly violent and radical.

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen Incorrect. It was *his* protest. He instigated it. If you literally are the leader or organizer of an event, then it's your responsibility to ensure that the behavior of people at that event reflect your goals and values. That means, when people started yelling bigoted comments, the pastor should have tried to quiet them down. Or, at the very least, he should have come forth and stated his disapproval. Nobody shushed the anti-Muslim rhetoric on the anti-mosque side. By contrast ...

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

reall? it was allen jackson who organized this? from the daily news journal: "protest march organizer Kevin Fisher" .... and again from wgns radio : "Kevin Fisher, who organized the march for those against the center".... kevin fisher is not the pastor of world outreach. where you get your info from?

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen If you look at the links found in my description, it wasn't Allen Jackson who instigated the protest, but he apparently got many in his church to participate in it. The interview at the final link in particular explains his church's role.

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

make up your mind.. here your saying, "it wasnt his protest", and earlier you said allen jackson is bigoted because "It was *his* protest. He instigated it" , and "the pastor should have tried to quiet them down" b.c. according to you it was his protest.. so which is it? all you guys protesting to defend the mosque ive talked to talk about how it was "allen jacksons"... your all as misinformed about that as you are about islam.

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen ... when a few stray individuals on the side of the pro-mosque protestors started shouting, both the leaders of the organization and the other people standing silently tried to quiet them. Both sides had a clear set of values: the anti-mosque side encouraged anti-muslim rhetoric. The pro-mosque side encouraged protecting the first amendment.

Regarding your statement about Muslims, I refer you to the links in this video description to pages and pages of Muslims opposing terrorism.

[zeddsith1]

@normaspleen What agency did Lou Ann Zelenik turn in her evidence of terrorist activity?The Tennesseean asked her that question and she ended the interview. She was doing a little political grandstanding, or not doing her duty as a citizen and turning over information about a potential terrorist.She clearly doesn't understand the Constitution and I hope she doesn't get elected by playing on the fears of the voters. P.S. I was glad to see so many people come out to stand up for freedom that day.

[normaspleen]

@zeddsith1

she ended the interview?? the tennessean tells who she reported it to..

from the tennessean : "Zelenik said she sent her suspicions to local elected officials reviewing the Islamic Center's plans "... you also spoke of her "not doing her duty as a citizen" by reporting possible terrorists, but if it werent for her no one would have known about rowash's possible radical ties. its the responsibility of the mosque to make sure no radicals are in there, but they showed they lack any.

[zeddsith1]

@normaspleen The planning comission? We have a Tennessee office of Homeland Security and countless law enforcement agencies. These are the people that should be recieving that type of information.But i was mistaken when she ended the interview,she claimed there was a picture showing this man standing next to militants,when asked to provide the picture she ended the interview.

[pmcrimson]

@zeddsith1 Thank you for the comment, as it's helped me look up more information about the allegations against Rawash. Though I trust that the investigation will get to the truth, the allegations against him look more and more shaky the more that I read.

[pmcrimson]

And yes, if she truly cared about America's safety rather than political posturing, she would have turned in her information to Homeland Security or the like, NOT the planning commission.

[normaspleen]

check out this site, its called thereligionofpeace.  com

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen I in no way support violent radicals of any religion, and all those who engage in murder or terrorism must be brought to justice. That said, the effort of that website to portray ALL Muslims as violent, anti-western radicals is itself unjust. I'll add links to numerous statements against violence and terrorism that have been made by prominent members and organizations within the Muslim community.

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

unjust, just like saying anyone who opposes this mosque is a "bigot".

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen Their chants and their signs expose them as holding ignorant, bigoted beliefs about Muslims. Check out the fourth video I posted of that day if you don't believe me.

[CousinoMacul]

We don't condone intolerance, we just don't want them dirty muslims around us. LOL!

Out of curiosity, which was bigger: the protest or the counter-protest?

[pmcrimson]

@CousinoMacul You have no idea how close to a direct quote that is to things *several* people on the anti-mosque side said.

I'm bad at guessing the numbers of a crowd. I think we were bigger, but numbers were close enough to look relatively similar at the front.

[normaspleen]

"Former Muslims United (FMU) launched a digital billboard campaign today against the expansion of the Islamic Center (ICM) in Murfreesboro, Tennessee." "Nonie Darwish, noted author, human rights activist and executive director of FMU, said, ”This is just the beginning of a national campaign to educate the public about threats to the civil and human rights of former Muslims who leave Islam and the dangers from adoption of Islamic Sharia law to all American citizens”.

[aaronbn]

The Christian fringe and conservative extremists like those led by the bigoted pastor at the ironically named "World Outreach" Church are just as dangerous as the Muslim fringe. The know no Muslims, yet because they've been told time and time again to "be afraid," they are.

Fear breeds hatred, and I refuse to live my life in fear.

[pmcrimson]

@aaronbn  Agreed, and thanks for the comment.

[normaspleen]

hey everybody research "mosaad rawash".. hes a board member at the islamic center of murfreesboro, and has been suspended and being examined after being accused of "of being a supporter of Hamas and "violent Jihad and martyrdom of Palestinians fighting against Israel" and posting it on his My Space page." interestingly enough, no more myspace page..

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen Since they come from the notoriously bigoted and ignorant Lou Ann Zelenik, I suspect these allegations will be proven false. But if they are true, it's encouraging that the Islamic Center is making a reasonable response: temporarily suspending his status until the allegations can be investigated. Sounds like it's being appropriately taken care of to me. :-)

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

actually sounds pretty irresponsible to me. the islamic center has made all these statements about how they are all about peace and have no ties to any radical organization, and then this pops up. granted it hasnt been proven yet, but it just shows that they either have no clue who their board members are, and therefore shouldnt be making statements claiming no ties to radicals, or they knew . you really think its responsible to be totally unaware of your board members backgrounds?

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen Again, you're assuming that the allegations against him are true. I'm not making that assumption, not only because it has not been proven but also because the accuser is notoriously anti-Muslim (a formal statement she has made proving this is linked to in my video description of the first video in this series).

And honestly, I do think people can keep something like that secret. I'll have to wait until the investigation is over to determine if the mosque should have known earlier.

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

im not assuming its true, thats why i said previously "granted it hasnt been proven yet", so sorry for the confusion there. but if the allegations are true, this obviously wasnt something extremely difficult to find out. i mean supposedly he had all sorts of radical statements on his myspace. you think its reasonable that others can find radical idealogy in this guy, but for some reason its too hard for the mosque that appoints him as a board member to find out? not buying that.

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen His myspace page was taken down when the story broke. While that can look suspicious, it could also have been done to manage a possible controversy. I don't know what his statements there were, or if he could have been misinterpreted. So until I know the details, I suspend all judgment.

Regardless, one bad member doesn't make the organization bad -- what matters is the response of the organization when they discover a bad member. (*Glares at Roman Catholicism.*)

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

too bad its the mosques resposibility to know these things before they appoint someone, so as i said either they dont care to look into the beliefs of these people they appoint to assure there are no radical ties, or they know. either way its irresponsible. if it turns out to be true, why do you think it was so easy for others to find radical ties in him, but the mosque could not?

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen Again, I withhold all judgment until any possible ties to terrorism have been investigated. Speculation at this point is pointless.

[normaspleen]

(cont) "because of this you are sometimes naive and overly trusting. you want to be friendly, so you open up to people and then youre suprised when they stab you in the back. many brave young soldiers have died in iraq for this reason, but i think this is also a big part of the problem with the stated department and others in government who fail to understand the true nature of this enemy."

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen We cannot allow paranoia to triumph over our Constitution. As long as no violence or other crime is involved, people have the right to worship as they wish (IF they wish to do so), period.

In any case, I hardly see how excluding moderate Muslims from American communities does anything to reduce radicalism. Hatred is conquered by love, not fear.

[normaspleen]

(cont) "by the sword. in some cases this means moving thousands of muslim families into a foreign land- by building mosques and changing the culture from the inside out, and by refusing to assimilate or adopt the beliefs or values of that nation-to conquer the land for islam." he goes on to say: "what i want to say next is not easy for me to say but i think i must say it anyway. one of the nicest things about the american people is that you are generous and friendly people, and (cont)

[normaspleen]

also, regarding the conference held by "Hizb ut-Tahrir ", "one of the organization's more recent leaflets, published in March, calls for the declaration of "a state of war against America." anyone know who general georges sada is?he was an air force general under sadaam. heres some interesting insight from him speaking of the islamic doctrine of conquering : "these doctrines express the belief that allah has commanded them to conquer the nations of the world both by cultural invasion and (con)

[normaspleen]

hey, anyone hear about the nice little rally in chicago? it was an islamic conference titled "the fall of capitalism and the rise of islam". cant get much more clear than that.. heres some details, "Roughly 500 members of Hizb ut-Tahrir — a global Sunni network with reported ties to confessed 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Al Qaeda in Iraq's onetime leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi — met inside a Hilton hotel in Oak Lawn, Ill., to host "The Fall of Capitalism and the Rise of Islam."

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen Hizb ut-Tahrir is a group which sees capitalism as exploitative, the U.S. as the primary exploiters of capitalism, and (due to the fall of communist Russia) Islam as the best counter-philosophy to capitalism. Their website is very open about this. Though clearly radical in their beliefs, as long as they aren't planning anything illegal, they have the right to believe and discuss what they want. If it is ever proven they plan acts of violence, THEN I will support stopping them.

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

you say this:

"If it is ever proven they plan acts of violence, THEN I will support stopping them. "

you do realize hizb ut-tahrir has ties to khalid sheikh mohammed, you know, the mastermind of 9/11... i consider 9/11 an act of violence. not to mention the ties to al qaeda, who carry out violent acts daily.

[normaspleen]

well, just ask the fine citizens of dearborn michigan about sharia law. all one has to do is look to europe. the ghettoization of london into "non-muslim no go zones".. research it. in 2008 englands archbishop of canterbury, rowan williams, said this, "the uk had to face up to the fact" that it "seems unavoidable" that sharia law be "incorporated into british law"... he called this "constructive accomodation".

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen I was in London in 2008. I was never warned about any "non-muslim no go zones," and in my travels throughout town certainly didn't notice any.

Rowan Williams' statement was due to the fact that Orthodox Jewish courts act as third-party arbitration in civil disputes between people of the same faith. He was proposing the same be allowed for Muslims. He was not saying that British law would in any way become Shar'ia law.

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

so just because you were in london and never noticed any, they therefore must not exist. ever researched it? google "londons non muslim no go zones". and on rowan williams, your way off. from bbc new : "Dr Williams argues that adopting parts of Islamic Sharia law would help maintain social cohesion. " this is a quote from home office minister tony mcnulty "To ask us to fundamentally change the rule of law and to adopt Sharia law, I think, is fundamentally wrong."

[sing4777]

pmcrimson, You should look up where Christian Missionaries were arrested in Dearborn, Mich. at an Muslim festival. They were told that they could NOT pass out the Gospel of John unless they were 5 blocks away. Who's freedom is being infringed upon? I know for a fact that Islam IS a politcal system and not just a religion. Currently studying material that I received from a former radical Shi'ite Muslim.

[MoXboroty]

@sing4777 I don't understand how you live your life in such constant fear. Why are you so afraid? That's not a good way to live. Let go of your fear, it only clouds your judgement.

[pmcrimson]

@sing4777 Those individuals were arrested for disturbing the peace. They claim it's a false charge, but the police and spokespeople from the event say they were trying to instigate dramatic footage at the Arab festival in order to make Islam look bad. Until there is video proof of what happened, it's one group's word against the other, which means I have no basis for knowing who's telling the truth.

Please also read general texts on the history and beliefs of Islam -- not just radical views.

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

"Until there is video proof of what happened, it's one group's word against the other"

wow.. there is video proof. you can watch all the videos at Acts17Apologetics youtube page.

[pmcrimson]

@normaspleen Okay, I've watched the video. Did the police officers actually arrest the guys or simply make them leave? Because obviously they weren't doing anything illegal, but given that these same guys apparently caused a problem the year before and an irritated (but peaceful) crowd was starting to gather, I wouldn't be surprised to see them made to leave. I wonder: did they talk to the organizers of the festival ahead of time and explain their plans and intentions for being there?

[normaspleen]

@pmcrimson

they were actually arrested. heres a quote : ""Officers arrested four Christian missionaries and illegally confiscated their video cameras, which were recording the events surrounding their arrests," said a statement today from the Thomas More Law Center of Ann Arbor, Mich. " these christians were exercising their constitutional rights, and were wrongfully arrested and frankly assaulted by a number of muslims at the event.

[sing4777]

If you notice in the quote, Muslims (yes, those at ICM) make no division between SECULAR and SACRED. Therefore it would be their goal to make Shari'a the law of the land, thus infringing on the freedoms that we enjoy as Americans.

[pmcrimson]

@sing4777 Your leaps in logic are jumping in unmanageable bounds. There are religious folk of many faiths who believe every act they make should be treated as a sacrament to God, even if they were merely building a chair or writing a letter or planting a garden. But just because they view life as intrinsically religious doesn't mean that they're out to overthrow the government in order to impose their beliefs on others.

[pmcrimson]

@sing4777 If church and state can be preserved in Murfreesboro, a town with well over 200 churches, several of which are mega churches, then I'm reasonably confident it can survive a single mosque going up.

And besides, our Constitution protects everyone's freedom of religion. As long as they aren't committing a crime, people of all faiths have the right to worship as they please in peace.

[sing4777]

Taken from the Islamic Center in Murfreesboro web site under faqs about Islam...

"Islam may seem exotic or even extreme in the modern world. Perhaps this is because religion does not dominate everyday life in the West today, whereas Muslims have religion always uppermost in their minds, and make no division between secular and sacred. They believe that the Divine Law, the SHARI'A, SHOULD BE TAKEN VERY SERIOUSLY, which is why issues related to religion are still so important."

[pmcrimson]

@sing4777 The term Shar'ia in Islam doesn't necessarily refer to political Shar'ia Law. The word "shar'ia" actually means "the way", and a lot of instruction about how to behave morally day to day is included in it. So just because their site says that it is right FOR MUSLIMS to revere Shar'ia law, that doesn't mean they have an agenda to overthrow the U.S. government and replace it with Shar'ia.

[pmcrimson]

@sing4777 I recommend reading the whole FAQ page -- particularly good are "Does Islam tolerate other beliefs?" and "What do Muslims think about Jesus?" I think the anti-mosque marchers would be startled at how much respect Jesus is held in.

Now, I'm not religious, much less Muslim, so while there's plenty I'd criticize in all three Western faiths, all criticism must be based on reality. Calling all Muslims terrorists is ignorance; fearing Shar'ia law coming to the U.S. is paranoid.