Tips for Conducting an Orchestra : Mistakes of Beginning Conductors

[86andylockett]

these videos are absolutely shocking

[60RP]

Das Beste an diesem Video ist die Reklame zu Beginn, der Rest ist peinlich!

[alverd7]

Please, forget and forgive this video. First thing (after the mistake of do a video about this tip) is not right, beacuse you don't need to be ever high. The orchestra sill see you. But, if you are ever on high, you'll loose an important part of your space for to conduct.

[musoderelict]

Conducting isn't like playing an instrument. It's communicating your ideas to the players, who convert them into physical sounds. Technique is more important for an instrumentalist than for a conductor. For him, it's the ideas that are necessary, and to be able to communicate them - but that is a highly individual matter. It's not about how you wave your arms.

[Zuerius]

Oh really? Leonard Bernstein seem to disagree =P

If you look at Leonard Bernstein conducting Candide Suite, it will be rather obvious that not all of these are true.

[pianoman55]

I mean... what?

[zagreen]

That's interesting.... I always thought you DIDN'T want to keep your arms way out in front of you like a zombie

[jsteuernol]

your face throughout this whole video reflects the quality of this video...

[guitarphunk]

You guys need to relax. Cut the guy a break. Have a cup of coffee and relax!

[mozartmahler61]

Well. Now I want to see this guy conducting Stravinsky's Sacre!

[theacorpse]

LOL, this guy is standing in a box of eggs telling people how to be the next Karajan. Pathetic, I feel sorry for you man, you teach us nothing good.

[midnightcomes]

I feel your first tip- keeping the arms out in front- is one that is almost entirely incorrect.

Keeping your arms out in front is a gesture that should be used at times that you want to emphasise the beat. Using it all the time diminishes the value extraordinarily.

[Iulius44ac]

¿Cómo se puede ser tan iluso? La dirección de orquesta no se enseña como si fuera una clase de gimnasia. El otro "mistake" (error) es pensar que el director es un metrónomo y que los músicos necesitan la claridad de "los dedos juntos" u otras bobadas que dice el "maestro" del video. ¿Por qué mejor no nos explica la razón por la cual los grandes directores no hacen nada de lo que él dice?

How is possible to be so naive? Orchestra conducting can´t be not taught as if it were a gym class!!!

[MHarrisonMcCann2011]

Wow i thought this was a joke

[ergangui]

this is stupid!!!! conductor's work is in front of the orchestra, not in front of a camera moving your arms.

[cobychas]

haha lmao..00:39 -dont let your elbow get in the way of your "beating time"

sounds like wanking instructions

[afrhiI]

i want to affirm Expert Village for their efforts in posting videos in order to help people like me who wants to learn about conducting. i know you're doing your best. just make things better and better. don't mind people who knows nothing but criticize. hehe

[aznpiccplayer123]

@afrhiI If you think this video is correct, you need to take a conducting class at a university from a real conductor with credentials.

[tsabrott]

this guy needs a public speaking class. uh uh uh umm uh uh um ya know

[Timrath]

@tsabrott To be fair, most musicians are terrible speakers. I have a hard time thinking of any musicians who were good speakers, except perhaps Bernstein.

[johnkblanchard]

And um, uh, um...you know, um...

[subongkosh]

omg i was looking for 1 missin chopstick !

[Bradster60]

in every expert village video the person seems depressed and wants to murder kittens

[bijouxmusic]

I noticed that everytime I see a real bad videos, it's by Expert Village.

....maybe, expert village only wants to make bad videos! ...

[lucaiuriciuc]

loooooool...where did you get this huy from??

[Atael]

WHAT A SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I THINK THAT MAYBE THIS IS VIDEO FOR A COMEDY or IRONY CLASS!!

[carlospercusionoboe]

Que se vaya a dormir este tio!!!

[klezmerlosangeles]

Is he from the future?

[kyleastephens]

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahah "lmao"

[IsaacMusician]

What kind of career have you had? Why should I listen to you?

[tommyk77]

@IsaacMusician Not really relevant. The tips should be judged on their own merits, ideally backed by polls taken by members of an ensemble.

Still, I agree that this video was not helpful. Many professional conductors swear by keeping their elbows still and by their sides

[bene951]

Oh dear, as if anything this guy emphasized mattered while conducting... I've seen my fair share of well-regarded conductors in performance... Haitink, Boulez, MTT, Maazel, Rattle, Muti, etc., etc... I think every single one of them have committed a couple of this guy's so-called "mistakes of beginning conductors"...

[alexhcdw]

@bene951 ; it's true that many great conductors will not follow these "beginners' rules", but that's often because they are conductors extremely high-quality orchestras, which means giving a clear beat is not of the same importance. Much of their musicianship pervades in the rehearsal. Their "greatness" does not reside in their ability to give downbeats.

[jslasher1]

If anyone should give a masterclass in conducting it should be Gustavo Dudamel.

[imsleepyanddead]

if i was taught this way, i guess leonard bernstein was a total fraud.

[IzzySpint]

Why are all these people saying that conductors are useless? If they're useless no one would bloody use them. I'm starting up conducting at my school and I'm in a school production at the moment. The musical is 'Our house' Based around Madness songs. They don't have much of an orchestral score it's mostly pop/rock style band set ups, so what i have to do is arrange an orchestral score to get our school orchestra involved and organize musicians. Conducters often do much more than conduct.

[KingLeon1daz]

@IzzySpint

lol I think that's great. Were you planning on recording/uploading it by any chance? I would love to see that.

[IzzySpint]

@KingLeon1daz I'm sure when the show is played I'll get a friend to record and upload a video of me conducting :) If that's what you want. You can leave an inbox message so i remember to do it, and subscribe as well. It'll probably be uploaded sometime in December.

[stephanieblum]

Well, I thought the video was great, besides what people have commented. I am interested in doing Music on College. What College have you attended?

[DublinPhilharmonic]

Mistake number one of beginning conductors, Making a video about conducting!

[holeypants74]

This guy reminds me of an inexperienced conductor.

[junevi2000]

The only thing I like in this video is his sweater and its color.

[DocMcFluhry]

I'd like to know this guy's conducting creditentials. Half of what he says is stupid. Who says you can't smile on the podium for instance? Really, music is supposed to make you smile. And if you hit a passage where it does, so be it. That only shows your ensemble that they've done right. Every conductor has his own style and should do with what works for them. Their musicians will follow.

[moltoallegro19]

But the job of the conductor is also to mediate a feeling through the music and the orchestra can get pretty confused when trying to follow this sentiment of yours if your facial expressions don't fit the music. And music's not supposed to make you smile. Well that too, but it's supposed to make you cry and laugh as well, make you feel all sorts of feelings. Anyone who thinks music's only supposed to give you pure happiness is ignorant and doesn't understand music (above the Gaga-level, that is)

[topologyrob]

@moltoallegro19 I'd say Lady Gaga is very likely to be far more talented than anyone here. She is an incredible musician, and it's sophisticated music.

[DocMcFluhry]

i don't even know how to respond to this. You don't have to be serious and looked pissed off for your ensemble to be able to follow you. They can look at your baton and ictus to tell the style. And to say that music is not supposed to make you smile is outright ignorant. If you're crying from a piece of music, I assume it's so beautiful that you're happy you heard it. Wouldn't you smile?? Anyone who doesn't get pure happiness from listening to music shouldn't call themselves a musician.

[moltoallegro19]

I didn't say you can't smile. But music is supposed to make you feel more than just happiness, it's an expression for feelings - not just hapiness! Music should be painful and sometimes even straight out ugly! If you smile and like everything IN THE MOMENT OF PERFORMANCE it simply means you don't understand the composers intentions with the piece and, obviously, you can't mediate any sensations to the orchestra. If they'd just follow the baton the piece would lack passion and become dead.

[DocMcFluhry]

So you say that the conductors baton is what gives a piece of music it's passion? That's ridiculous. Music should be poignant, not painful. And I didn't say that it's ok to get on the podium and just cheese at everyone the whole time you're up there, but to say it's not ok to ever smile, as he did in the video is not good advice from someone from 'expert' village. I play with several major organizations and the conductors smile on and off, depending on how the music strikes them.

[moltoallegro19]

No, I said "If they would just follow the baton the piece would lack passion and become dead", quite the opposite actually. I meant that they need to follow the spirit and expressions of the conductor too. And he doesn't mean you mustn't smile - he only says "don't smile when the music is supposed to be sad, in order not to confuse the orchestra". To me it seems that we agree, I don't understand why we're arguing. I think you must have misunderstood me at some point.

[DocMcFluhry]

@moltoallegro19 Perhaps I did.

[moltoallegro19]

Glad we could end this as friends.

[sborgello]

imparare a dirigere con un video è come imparare a scopare con un porno.

[ncbaritoneguy08]

Actually Most of what he talked about was correct he just didn't know how to say it. The one thing that i would strongly disagree on is when he said dont look goofy o smile. You should do what you feel to describe the music. If you want to cry then cry...if you want to laugh then laugh. I invite you to watch Carlos Klieber conduct Beethoven's 7th. Truly a visionary in the world of conducting. Also check out Mr. Aubado, Metha, and Sir Simon Rattle. These are GREAT conductors. Have any questions?

[TheGalispo]

Tip for beginners on conducting: keep away from this video!

[hermizoth]

not this guys's fault: ALL conducting is bullshit. "Give any musician - with no orchestral training -- in a medium quality orchestra 6 months to learn to conduct the Beethoven Violin C. Then give any conductor -- with no training on the violin -- 6 months to learn to PERFORM the Beethoven violin concerto. This counter-example is unanswerable and constituites the deathknell of the "art" of conducting. The Orpheus orchestra is merely more empirical evidence of this

[calogria]

First: name one conductor who didn't start out as a professional musician. Second: conducting technique is relatively easy, but that doesn't mean being a good conductor is easy. Of course orchestras can play without a conductor, as long as the repertoire is not too difficult; but it takes much more rehearsal time.

Your example has as much sense as asking if an architect can actually build a house.

[kongming819]

@calogria I think you should've qualified your imperative: name one GOOD conductor who didn't start out as a professional musician :)

Of course, there are many conductors who didn't start out as professional musicians (Gilbert Kaplan cough cough) but that doesn't make him a GOOD conductor.

[calogria]

@kongming819 Gilbert who? ;-)

[kongming819]

@calogria ha ha ha! Good one :D

[kongming819]

@hermizoth Yeah, I'd like to see the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra perform some Mahler and Shostakovich Symphonies. Then we'll see if "ALL conducting is bullshit."

It takes years for a conductor to truly learn and express a piece. Your example is cherry-picking.

[scream261]

@hermizoth SO TRUE!!!! LOVE IT!!!!

[seatonsr]

this is complete crap.

[MillofPWN]

His Is actually right.

Every conductor have his own style. but the skeleton of conducting is the same!!!

[Classicalguy12]

I've seen EVERY great conductor do everything wrong, according to you.

[anonymusum]

EVERY conductor has to find his very own style - there is no general plan. The way you are showing will lead to something like a boring standard technique. For amateurs it´s quite good though.

[MrBeethoven333]

horrible. example, karajan didnt get super technical like this. Follow your own conducting style and if the orchestra has any brains, they'll follow. Karajan isnt very strict in his cinducting, yet his orchestra follows him gracefully, moving elbow and all. pffftttttt, nice try anyway

[onrev]

hes has so much confidence in what he says...... (total sarcasm)

[UTMusic]

...Interesting. I personally find his plane of conducting too high for his chest, his beats too vertical to carry sound...Even his initial stance shows his left elbow slightly lower than his right elbow. Also, his legato beat is not well coordinated between his elbow and wrist movements. He comments on this, but doesn't actually demonstrate it effectively. I could go into more details, save for limited typing space...So, to be brief, I don't recommend this video.

[MarMatMal]

CRAP.

[marado6010]

This is probably the worst thing I've ever seen...young conductors-stay away from this video

[licoricestic]

bullshit

[1401JSC]

Pretentious and unhelpful.

Do you think it's a good pedagogic approach to tell beginners what mistakes they might make?

[71259mark]

@1401JSC Yes.

[sweetnshai]

@1401JSC he's trying to tell us not what to do!

[Parparim61]

Similar to fiddlinmatt, I had a very experienced conducting teacher who would have said the "expert's" arms were too high also.

Seriously, though, does anyone really watch these videos for advice? It seems like anyone who has the opportunity to conduct an orchestra would already have this basic knowledge.

[SaltyTestes]

part of my style is using my elbow. it is easy to follow, and is pleasing to the eye. not everyone should conduct the same way. lets not allow conducting to have the republican mentality as well.

[makthnife]

this poor guy is getting it socked to him on these clips!

[trumpetgirl76]

and uh, so yeah,and um. you need to this, and um. like, yeah. can you at least sound a little more proffesional?

[astroman734]

Just look at bernstein. I mean, I am not saying that he is the paradigm for proper conducting technique, but he did everything that this man said not to.

[navychick88]

don't smile? really??

I find that smiling calms your ensemble down and makes them feel more secure about their performance... I have my conducting final today and I'm looking for pointers on how to deal with multiple cues.

[phobulous]

He said don't smile if the piece is somber, but I do agree that smiling can communicate approval and instill confidence in the ensemble where appropriate.

[fiddlinmatt]

I'm currently taking a class for my major in basic conducting, the instructor studied at aspen for several seasons and has been conducting at the college and professional level for over 20 years. He would say that your arms are too high. His reasoning in his experience is, believe it or not, the ensemble Actually WILL see what you're doing if your upper arm is at about a 45 degree angle out from your body. Everything else you're saying is consistent with what I'm learning, though.

[CowHoofOnAHotPlate]

everones got a different style and approach to conducting, in the end, all that matters is that the orchestra can follow you.