Jesus to the Pharisees "You should the scriptures because in them you think that you have eternal life." His point was pretty obvious. There is life in the Son. There is true freedom in this message. Years ago I would have been one of those ripping this message, but the system of christianity as we know it doesn't work. Everyone knows it but won't admit it and be real. God is love and that's the message that will set people free. I love what Darin says. Examine your heart and you will see truth.
Well.....seeing as this seems to be those in the camp of liberal theology at best and totally heresy at worst...and they either loathe correction when it involves Scripture or just don't believe it altogether I will leave this "conversation" with this quote: "Right is right, even if everyone is against it; and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it." ~ William Penn.
@OFCLREALMinistries Jesus was considered a heretic by the religious people in his day so it's only reasonable to assume that those of us who follow in his footsteps today will also be branded as heretics. It seems to go with the turf when dealing with people who are in bondage to religion. BTW, great quote.
I admire the zeal of everyone who has posted here although I don’t agree with some. I honestly believe if you would try to listen to the heart of this message, you would see the truth in what has been said. I’m sure you didn’t always believe the Bible but later became convinced of its truth so give this message a chance and ask God to show you if it’s true. Then, try to listen with an open heart and it might not be as scary or as implausible as you now feel it is.
Why would you need to use scripture to convince someone to 'reason together?' If real reasoning is occurring, then the result is natural. This is the whole point.
@jamesppesch You stopped reasoning with me when you decided to call me a moron bro...that isn't reasoning from any standpoint it's just insulting, but it is ok man, I truly get where you're at and it's cool....Be blessed bro
Church fathers like Iranians, Tortellini, and Clement of Alexandria used the apocryphal books in public worship and accepted them as Scripture. Further, it is argued, St. Augustine viewed these books as inspired. 1500's certainly not 200 years ago, but 1500 years into the faith. God must not have respected believers for 1500 years to wait so long to offer the correct book.
James, you’ve made several great points. The Bible was God inspired but it was authored by men and men being fallible, that means that there are errors in the Bible. However, that doesn’t negate its value. When we read it through the lens of love, we begin to see the heart of scripture and its message which is love and freedom. The Bible is a wonderful tool to help us know God but it’s still just a tool.
@AidaCalder While, I certainly do without question, disagree with you about the Bible having error, I do agree that it is one of the things God uses for us to know Him and His character....
@OFCLREALMinistries We’re all unique individuals and will relate to God in different ways so I totally understand where you’re coming from especially since a few years ago, I would have totally agreed with you. Although, I can no longer get past the obvious discrepancies, it has not hindered me from seeing and loving the God that Peter, Paul and the others met and knew.
Hey brothers...we should be lifting up our brethren, not tearing them down. The fact of the matter is that as long as Christianity is a religion, no one is going to agree with everything that anyone says. This teaching is breaking the walls of religion and insisting it should be what Christ's death was made for... a direct intimate relationship with God. Any tools He gives us whether its the bible, people or anything along the way is just a bonus to help.
@jcsavedme2001 Agree with you about building and lifting each other up and I thank you for that reminder on here....but I couldn't disagree with you more about this teaching....it is scary and dangerous... If the Bible is flawed friends, then the Gospel we believe is flawed, the Christ that you are all professing to have intimacy with, which we learn is possible from the Scriptures is flawed...and the reality is, that God would then have to be considered flawed...
@OFCLREALMinistries The Bible revealed the person who had been calling to me before I came to know him. Then, it showed me how others related to him and I learned much from their experiences, just as I can learn from the experiences of other believers such as yourself. God is certainly not flawed but the people who wrote the Bible were flawed and that will show up in their writings. Paul said that we see through a dark mirror so even he recognized that he wasn’t seeing perfectly.
Darin, your message has had a great impact in my life and in the life of others who listen with their heart. Thank you for being willing to speak the truth that sets people free even when others don't understand and attack you.
Darin, thank you for posting these videos. I know the respect you have for the Bible but like so many things in the religious world, it has come to mean something that it was never intended to mean. I believe if the church could only accept the truth as you’ve presented it, we would be able to experience God’s life in the way he intended for us to experience it. Once again, thank you for speaking truth. Others may not accept it, however, that doesn’t make it any less truth.
I spent 2 years in Bible school trying to become you, thank God I grew a brain and began to understand that your belief system leads to division, legalism, & idol worship of words.
You become less effective with every post. One of us is defending the infallibility of hundreds if books in hundreds of translations. The other is defending a person whom all those texts were speaking of. Dialogue with you has become tedious.
@jamesppesch Thought we were dialoging as brothers but you wanna bring moron into it! You obviously have a whole lot of maturing to do....but just for the sake of you calling me a moron...The Apocrypha was out of the canon long before 200 years ago....so I don't think you are in a place to call anyone a moron! Obviously, you don't think God is in control over His work and the word He has given....God breathed means that he breathed it into those writing it by His Holy Spirit..
@jamesppesch And when God breathed through people who aren't infallible, the result because God did it is something without error.....and I am sorry that dialog about such things seems tedious to you....I would quote the scripture verse that says "let us reason together" which when people do reason out things, it can be tedious, but that of course wouldn't mean anything to you, because the Bible is just a God inspired idea with errors so that text very well could mean nothing if you decided it..
@jamesppesch My friend, I do think some, like you, who come from the more liberal tradition do have things of value to say, but our differences will always be the nature of the Bible and it's authority. And considering your latest posts I will stop this dialog & just leave you with this quote: "I do not believe it is possible that one can have a true biblical system of theology to stand on when they deny the absolute truthfulness of the Bible, or don't think it's words are God's very words"
Amazing teaching Darin. You are speaking what others are simply afraid to say. Jesus is the Word of God. The scriptures declare He is the word fulfilled. As in John where John says the Word became flesh. He is the law and prophets fulfilled. the New testament is not Jesus. Man do we have it backwards. Jesus can't be contained in a book. The gospel says the world couldn't contain the books of his acts and being, . Thanks Darin. Doug in Denver
Jesus Christ & He alone is deserving of the title of 'word of God.' If your priorities were straight you would be more devoted to He rather than an 'it.' An it that wasn't in most homes until 100 years ago yet Christ still was preached and received.
@jamesppesch Jesus Christ is called the Word of God in the book of John & the book of Revelation. And He certainly IS the Word of God, BUT these verses and perhaps (I John 1:1) are the only instances where the Bible refers to the Son as the "the Word" or as "the Word of God," so this usage is not common but it does indicate that among the members of the Trinity is especially the Son who in His person as well as His words has the role of communicating the character of God to us & His will to us
Scripture never claims that scripture is infallible, nor does scripture call itself the word of God. If this belief makes you feel better then believe it, but I can prove that there is no way every translation is infallible. Why has the apocripha been removed from text within the last 200 years? At what point did it become & by the authors or the compilers?
@jamesppesch And I beg to differ that Scripture never claims to be infallible... The commonly quoted passage 2 Timohty 3:16 affirms that ALL not some but ALL Scripture is God breathed...and what God breathes is without question infallible, and thus is completely pure (PS. 12:6), perfect (Ps. 119:96), and true without error (Prov. 30:5)...
@jamesppesch The New Testament contains further affirmations of the reliability of ALL parts of Scripture. Paul says he worships God, "believing EVERYTHING laid down by the law or written in the prophets." In Luke 24:25 Jesus says the disciples are "foolish men" because they are "slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken." In Rom 15:4 Paul says that "whatever was written" in the OT was " written for our instruction.
@jamesppesch And this leads to the bigger challenge for you & anyone else making such claims against the infallibility or inerrancy of Scripture...& that is These texts or any other give NO indication that there is ANY part of Scripture that is not to be trusted or relied on completely as God's literal Words written down. So those that come from the camp you seem to be in aren't standing on the Scriptures themselves to back your stance or anything more than human logic...
As far as the Apocrypha goes I suggest you do a little more research there before you bring it to the conversation in regards to the canon of Scripture, but just to get you started. The Apocrypha is a collection of book that is included in the canon by the Roman Catholic Chruch, but not until1546 at the council of Trent which was their response to the teaching of Martin Luther and the rapidly spreading Protestant Reformation...
@jamesppesch And the Apocrypha contained support for the Catholic teaching of prayers for the dead and justification by faith plus works, and not faith alone. The Apocrypha was never accepted by the Jews as Scripture and the earliest Christian evidence is decidedly against viewing the Apocrypha as part of the canon, but the use of the Apocrypha did gradually increased until the time of the Reformation, when God who oversees His Word raised up Luther to call the church back to the original canon.
History is written by the victor. The reason the theme of the Bible is more important than the infallibility of each individual verse is that the theme remains intact regardless if variations in translation. The Bible, without question, is God inspired not God authored which is why the theme remains consistent while infallibility remains impossible.
@jamesppesch Well my friend, I will respectfully disagree with you that God in His Sovereignty and Love for sinful man, of which He gave His very life for, not to mention endured all of God's wrath for (propitiation) would allow the written Word that He through His Holy Spirit inspired human authors to pen and left for us to live our lives by to become corrupted, even through translation...God is the one who overseen the writing of His written Word...not man....
@jamesppesch And, with God overseeing the writing of Scripture and causing it to be also His words means that it is different from much other human writing in precisely this aspect: it does not include error. That is exactly the point made by even, sinful, greedy, disobedient Balaam in Numbersm23:19. God's speech through flawed sinful human beings is different from the ordinary speech of men because "God is not man that He should lie."
The most divisive belief in the Church is the belief that my translation is infallible. The person & theme of the God inspired (not authored) scriptures is the only one deserving of your unapologetic devotion. By the scriptures you think you'll find life, but they speak of me. How much more must Christ dumb down the message for you to realize the overall message is more important than any individual passage?
@jamesppesch If you don't believe the Bible is infallible, how can you trust in "the overall message" that it proclaims? Would your approach be the same to other historical books or would you want things to be conclusive for you to trust what it said?
Which by the way friend, the Living Word 100% (seeing as your predictable rebuttal to calling the Bible the Word is to mention John's mention of Jesus as the Living Word) stands on the Bible for what it is... and one last point...you only get your rebuttal of the Living Word from where??? That's right from the written Word.. How convenient...
You have got to be one of the biggest heretics I have ever come across... I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when on the day of judgement.... Oh wait! You don't believe in the Bible....just the parts that you like or are convenient to you... Or passages that you just ignore context of...like I Corinthians 13:4-8... I would invite a dialog with you but, I have seen the derogatory way in which you treat people who actually try to hold you to God's written Word the Scriptures...
Jesus to the Pharisees "You should the scriptures because in them you think that you have eternal life." His point was pretty obvious. There is life in the Son. There is true freedom in this message. Years ago I would have been one of those ripping this message, but the system of christianity as we know it doesn't work. Everyone knows it but won't admit it and be real. God is love and that's the message that will set people free. I love what Darin says. Examine your heart and you will see truth.
MrMathjordan 6 months ago
Well.....seeing as this seems to be those in the camp of liberal theology at best and totally heresy at worst...and they either loathe correction when it involves Scripture or just don't believe it altogether I will leave this "conversation" with this quote: "Right is right, even if everyone is against it; and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it." ~ William Penn.
Good day and blessing to you all...
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago 2
@OFCLREALMinistries Jesus was considered a heretic by the religious people in his day so it's only reasonable to assume that those of us who follow in his footsteps today will also be branded as heretics. It seems to go with the turf when dealing with people who are in bondage to religion. BTW, great quote.
AidaCalder 6 months ago
Comment removed
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
Comment removed
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
I admire the zeal of everyone who has posted here although I don’t agree with some. I honestly believe if you would try to listen to the heart of this message, you would see the truth in what has been said. I’m sure you didn’t always believe the Bible but later became convinced of its truth so give this message a chance and ask God to show you if it’s true. Then, try to listen with an open heart and it might not be as scary or as implausible as you now feel it is.
AidaCalder 6 months ago
Why would you need to use scripture to convince someone to 'reason together?' If real reasoning is occurring, then the result is natural. This is the whole point.
jamesppesch 6 months ago
Comment removed
EmissariusMinistries 6 months ago
@jamesppesch You stopped reasoning with me when you decided to call me a moron bro...that isn't reasoning from any standpoint it's just insulting, but it is ok man, I truly get where you're at and it's cool....Be blessed bro
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
Church fathers like Iranians, Tortellini, and Clement of Alexandria used the apocryphal books in public worship and accepted them as Scripture. Further, it is argued, St. Augustine viewed these books as inspired. 1500's certainly not 200 years ago, but 1500 years into the faith. God must not have respected believers for 1500 years to wait so long to offer the correct book.
jamesppesch 6 months ago
James, you’ve made several great points. The Bible was God inspired but it was authored by men and men being fallible, that means that there are errors in the Bible. However, that doesn’t negate its value. When we read it through the lens of love, we begin to see the heart of scripture and its message which is love and freedom. The Bible is a wonderful tool to help us know God but it’s still just a tool.
AidaCalder 6 months ago
@AidaCalder While, I certainly do without question, disagree with you about the Bible having error, I do agree that it is one of the things God uses for us to know Him and His character....
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
@OFCLREALMinistries We’re all unique individuals and will relate to God in different ways so I totally understand where you’re coming from especially since a few years ago, I would have totally agreed with you. Although, I can no longer get past the obvious discrepancies, it has not hindered me from seeing and loving the God that Peter, Paul and the others met and knew.
AidaCalder 6 months ago
Hey brothers...we should be lifting up our brethren, not tearing them down. The fact of the matter is that as long as Christianity is a religion, no one is going to agree with everything that anyone says. This teaching is breaking the walls of religion and insisting it should be what Christ's death was made for... a direct intimate relationship with God. Any tools He gives us whether its the bible, people or anything along the way is just a bonus to help.
jcsavedme2001 6 months ago
@jcsavedme2001 Agree with you about building and lifting each other up and I thank you for that reminder on here....but I couldn't disagree with you more about this teaching....it is scary and dangerous... If the Bible is flawed friends, then the Gospel we believe is flawed, the Christ that you are all professing to have intimacy with, which we learn is possible from the Scriptures is flawed...and the reality is, that God would then have to be considered flawed...
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
@OFCLREALMinistries The Bible revealed the person who had been calling to me before I came to know him. Then, it showed me how others related to him and I learned much from their experiences, just as I can learn from the experiences of other believers such as yourself. God is certainly not flawed but the people who wrote the Bible were flawed and that will show up in their writings. Paul said that we see through a dark mirror so even he recognized that he wasn’t seeing perfectly.
AidaCalder 6 months ago
Darin, your message has had a great impact in my life and in the life of others who listen with their heart. Thank you for being willing to speak the truth that sets people free even when others don't understand and attack you.
AidaCalder 6 months ago
Darin, thank you for posting these videos. I know the respect you have for the Bible but like so many things in the religious world, it has come to mean something that it was never intended to mean. I believe if the church could only accept the truth as you’ve presented it, we would be able to experience God’s life in the way he intended for us to experience it. Once again, thank you for speaking truth. Others may not accept it, however, that doesn’t make it any less truth.
AidaCalder 6 months ago
I spent 2 years in Bible school trying to become you, thank God I grew a brain and began to understand that your belief system leads to division, legalism, & idol worship of words.
jamesppesch 6 months ago
You become less effective with every post. One of us is defending the infallibility of hundreds if books in hundreds of translations. The other is defending a person whom all those texts were speaking of. Dialogue with you has become tedious.
jamesppesch 6 months ago
so if it is not accepted by the Jews, it is not scripture?
jamesppesch 6 months ago
God breathed you moron, and you're not infallible.
jamesppesch 6 months ago
Comment removed
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
@jamesppesch Thought we were dialoging as brothers but you wanna bring moron into it! You obviously have a whole lot of maturing to do....but just for the sake of you calling me a moron...The Apocrypha was out of the canon long before 200 years ago....so I don't think you are in a place to call anyone a moron! Obviously, you don't think God is in control over His work and the word He has given....God breathed means that he breathed it into those writing it by His Holy Spirit..
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
Comment removed
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
@jamesppesch And when God breathed through people who aren't infallible, the result because God did it is something without error.....and I am sorry that dialog about such things seems tedious to you....I would quote the scripture verse that says "let us reason together" which when people do reason out things, it can be tedious, but that of course wouldn't mean anything to you, because the Bible is just a God inspired idea with errors so that text very well could mean nothing if you decided it..
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
@jamesppesch My friend, I do think some, like you, who come from the more liberal tradition do have things of value to say, but our differences will always be the nature of the Bible and it's authority. And considering your latest posts I will stop this dialog & just leave you with this quote: "I do not believe it is possible that one can have a true biblical system of theology to stand on when they deny the absolute truthfulness of the Bible, or don't think it's words are God's very words"
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
Amazing teaching Darin. You are speaking what others are simply afraid to say. Jesus is the Word of God. The scriptures declare He is the word fulfilled. As in John where John says the Word became flesh. He is the law and prophets fulfilled. the New testament is not Jesus. Man do we have it backwards. Jesus can't be contained in a book. The gospel says the world couldn't contain the books of his acts and being, . Thanks Darin. Doug in Denver
graceforusall 6 months ago
Comment removed
graceforusall 6 months ago
Okay I'm subbed... rock on :-)
;-) Lionwoman
Buddypal2323231 6 months ago
Jesus Christ & He alone is deserving of the title of 'word of God.' If your priorities were straight you would be more devoted to He rather than an 'it.' An it that wasn't in most homes until 100 years ago yet Christ still was preached and received.
jamesppesch 6 months ago
@jamesppesch Jesus Christ is called the Word of God in the book of John & the book of Revelation. And He certainly IS the Word of God, BUT these verses and perhaps (I John 1:1) are the only instances where the Bible refers to the Son as the "the Word" or as "the Word of God," so this usage is not common but it does indicate that among the members of the Trinity is especially the Son who in His person as well as His words has the role of communicating the character of God to us & His will to us
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
Scripture never claims that scripture is infallible, nor does scripture call itself the word of God. If this belief makes you feel better then believe it, but I can prove that there is no way every translation is infallible. Why has the apocripha been removed from text within the last 200 years? At what point did it become & by the authors or the compilers?
jamesppesch 6 months ago
@jamesppesch And I beg to differ that Scripture never claims to be infallible... The commonly quoted passage 2 Timohty 3:16 affirms that ALL not some but ALL Scripture is God breathed...and what God breathes is without question infallible, and thus is completely pure (PS. 12:6), perfect (Ps. 119:96), and true without error (Prov. 30:5)...
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
@jamesppesch The New Testament contains further affirmations of the reliability of ALL parts of Scripture. Paul says he worships God, "believing EVERYTHING laid down by the law or written in the prophets." In Luke 24:25 Jesus says the disciples are "foolish men" because they are "slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken." In Rom 15:4 Paul says that "whatever was written" in the OT was " written for our instruction.
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
@jamesppesch And this leads to the bigger challenge for you & anyone else making such claims against the infallibility or inerrancy of Scripture...& that is These texts or any other give NO indication that there is ANY part of Scripture that is not to be trusted or relied on completely as God's literal Words written down. So those that come from the camp you seem to be in aren't standing on the Scriptures themselves to back your stance or anything more than human logic...
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
As far as the Apocrypha goes I suggest you do a little more research there before you bring it to the conversation in regards to the canon of Scripture, but just to get you started. The Apocrypha is a collection of book that is included in the canon by the Roman Catholic Chruch, but not until1546 at the council of Trent which was their response to the teaching of Martin Luther and the rapidly spreading Protestant Reformation...
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
@jamesppesch And the Apocrypha contained support for the Catholic teaching of prayers for the dead and justification by faith plus works, and not faith alone. The Apocrypha was never accepted by the Jews as Scripture and the earliest Christian evidence is decidedly against viewing the Apocrypha as part of the canon, but the use of the Apocrypha did gradually increased until the time of the Reformation, when God who oversees His Word raised up Luther to call the church back to the original canon.
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
History is written by the victor. The reason the theme of the Bible is more important than the infallibility of each individual verse is that the theme remains intact regardless if variations in translation. The Bible, without question, is God inspired not God authored which is why the theme remains consistent while infallibility remains impossible.
jamesppesch 6 months ago
@jamesppesch Well my friend, I will respectfully disagree with you that God in His Sovereignty and Love for sinful man, of which He gave His very life for, not to mention endured all of God's wrath for (propitiation) would allow the written Word that He through His Holy Spirit inspired human authors to pen and left for us to live our lives by to become corrupted, even through translation...God is the one who overseen the writing of His written Word...not man....
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
@jamesppesch And, with God overseeing the writing of Scripture and causing it to be also His words means that it is different from much other human writing in precisely this aspect: it does not include error. That is exactly the point made by even, sinful, greedy, disobedient Balaam in Numbersm23:19. God's speech through flawed sinful human beings is different from the ordinary speech of men because "God is not man that He should lie."
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
The most divisive belief in the Church is the belief that my translation is infallible. The person & theme of the God inspired (not authored) scriptures is the only one deserving of your unapologetic devotion. By the scriptures you think you'll find life, but they speak of me. How much more must Christ dumb down the message for you to realize the overall message is more important than any individual passage?
jamesppesch 6 months ago
@jamesppesch If you don't believe the Bible is infallible, how can you trust in "the overall message" that it proclaims? Would your approach be the same to other historical books or would you want things to be conclusive for you to trust what it said?
OFCLREALMinistries 6 months ago
Which by the way friend, the Living Word 100% (seeing as your predictable rebuttal to calling the Bible the Word is to mention John's mention of Jesus as the Living Word) stands on the Bible for what it is... and one last point...you only get your rebuttal of the Living Word from where??? That's right from the written Word.. How convenient...
EmissariusMinistries 6 months ago
You have got to be one of the biggest heretics I have ever come across... I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when on the day of judgement.... Oh wait! You don't believe in the Bible....just the parts that you like or are convenient to you... Or passages that you just ignore context of...like I Corinthians 13:4-8... I would invite a dialog with you but, I have seen the derogatory way in which you treat people who actually try to hold you to God's written Word the Scriptures...
EmissariusMinistries 6 months ago