"There is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind" by Anthony Flew
This book makes Richard Dawkins' book or Christopher Hirchens book look like comic books.
If Anthony Flew can see these things, why not Dawkins or why didn't Hitchens? The answer is Flew used his mind sufficiently in regards to arguments while Dawkins and Hitchens have not done so. They failed to put pieces together.
if he had been like of course there isnt a god and was believing in atheism then you wouldn't have of gone against his statements and gone against him after death
@joshmanownz i totally agree with you! its really pathetic that these atheists have to slime and smear someone just because he disagrees. And I though that they hate people forcing their beliefs down another's throat and that they were all for tolerance and open-mindedness. Most likely none of them have even bothered to read Flew's final book, which was far better than Dawkins's book, btw.
this video is wishful thinking, antony flew isn't suffering from any illness, he absolutely knows what he's saying, and the scientific facts he studied.
@KatanaRapierCombo2 so true if antony flew had said of course there isnt a god they would of agreed with him and praised but as soon as he changes his mind they go against him and insult him after death
@KatanaRapierCombo2 "again, an atheist believes in this misconception: science=atheism
half-wit -.-"
Actually you got it slightly wrong, the more intelligent you are the more likely you are to be an Atheist, that's a fact like it or not, check out the united nations development index, the most atheistic countries have the highest academic achievement rates, but you already know this, 44% of Americans think the universe is less than 10,000yrs old!!
@hughjarrse really? albert einstein wasn't an atheist, neither was isaac newton, or galileo galilee. in the united nations development index, the most atheistic countries have the highest academic rates? in asia, most of the people highly excel in academics, but aren't atheists. if you think that the people i've shown were too ancient to realize the "modern facts", that's because you're not looking at the modern christian-scientists like; mark eastman, alister mcgrath, francis collins, etc.
@hughjarrse So why should your voodoo evolution be taught? It's not a fact, buddy, it's a theocratic nightmare. Newton, Einstein, this fellow all of them conclude there is intelligence once they get over the massive gift of mind God gave them and survived the indoctrination of university. So you came from mud? Monkeys? If the earth were 4.5 billion years old, the moon would have been dragged into earth eons ago based on how far she drifts every year now. Stronger than throne jokes.
@corioa Wether or not there is an "intelligence" behind "life the universe & everything" is an unaswerable question, it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with evoluntion, evolution is a provable fact, not one biology department in any credible university anywhere in the world will teach you differently, if you get your education from "Dave's bible school & griil" of course you're not going to know anything and appear stupid, it's not your fault, it's a sad indictment of your education
@MrRAIDR912 " Jesus is my Lord I believe he sits at the right hand of God"
I though Jesus was god, it's a metaphysical logistic nightmare, what do they do take turns in the "big chair"
All joking aside there is nothing wrong in believing what you want to believe in, the problem comes when you decide it should be taught in schools because you open the door to all the other nutters, if Christians can get their beliefs into schools with no evidence, why not scientologist's or Moonies
I have listened to the whole video and although the interviewer does ask leading question Prof Flew does not answer those questions without elaborating on his answer, there demonstrating his understanding and thoughts on those questions.
@Glenforbes60 First there are some very strange edits, secondly Flew says the evidence is "stronger now" @02:12, yet all the evidence was available to Flew decades before this video, he is lead on to say the "creator" is both omniscient AND omnipotent which is impossible (yes even for a god) And the biggest problem is most of the god squad had no idea who Flew was until the ID people pounced looking for a "credible?" protagonist and never saw him at his intellectual height, just this pale shadow
I think many atheists don't want to admit that one of their kind can convert to a faith, especially as someone as great as Flew, who prior to Richard Dawkins was the most eminent atheist. Therefore, they are going to make every excuse ( he was mentally ill, he was coerced etc.) Face it, Flew came to a conclusion. There is a God. Studying the metaphysics, biology, psychology, anthropology, philosophy and the rest of the universe. We are creatures so that means there had to be a Creator.
@DCNY31279 It's fair to assume you had no idea whatsoever who Professor Flew was before the god squad parasites flooded in, "We are creatures so that means there had to be a Creator" that's just an argument from personal incredulity, you either can't think or are too lazy to think so you come out with the "magic man did it" theory, totally missing the point that any creator must be more complex than "his" creations, yet you're not in the slightest bit concerned where the magic man came from
My opinion of biology is irrelevant but to only glean your info from you tube or Wikipedia may be the problem. Don't debate me, get published in a peer reviewed journal yourself if your such an expert. Be warned though they won't stand for your habit of false assertions.
@Galozzi9 "Don't debate me, get published in a peer reviewed journal yourself if your such an expert" I don't have to debate you, and I have no need to publish peer reviewed papers, there are 100's of 1,000's out there already, Michael Behe tried to push his spurious bullshit through a Dover court only to be confronted by scores of scientific papers on the bacterial flagellum, and his "irreducible complexity" myth was blown out of the water by the TTSS a bacterial syringe that predates flagellum
@hughjarrse listen to yourself, the very language you use shows your lack of rational thought. Lets get this arguement down to the bare minimum. You are saying that you are god and can do what you like, I am saying that Jesus is God and I want to do as He says. Did you create yourself....no then pls logically explain how you came to be? You cant unless yu believe in a superior being that created all.
@Glenfor "listen to yourself, the very language you use shows your lack of rational thought"
It's not possible to be omniscient and omnipotent, if you know when and where everything is going to happen in the future using omniscience, then you can't change anything using omnipotence without compromising your omniscience, if I ask god to tell me the day I die, and he says 22nd Sep 2011, he is them powerless to alter that without being wrong when he told me the date! omniscience makes you impotent
@Glenforbes60 "Did you create yourself....no then pls logically explain how you came to be?"
so you're saying god created himself? your argument is one from personal incredulity so you pluck a "magic man" out of thin air to rational your belief, all you need for matter is energy, and we know energy exists, if you need to go down an infinite regression choose energy to have always existed, because we know it exists, you believe something has always existed, without knowing if it EVER existed
The comments don't allow me to put in the link but check out the most recent issue of the science journal Bio-Complexity for a peer reviewed article on the subject of the plausibility of the RNA world hypothesis.
Mostly I was just checking to see if this was your other account, busted!! Also you wanted a list and if you check it out you will find it grows weekly with scientists from many disciplines including hundreds of Biologists. So there goes another of your assertions "there is no debate in the scientific world over evolution". Those on the list are not all supporters of ID (some are Atheist) but they all have doubts over Darwinism and many of them are published.
@Galmozzi99 "Mostly I was just checking to see if this was your other account, busted!! " Busted? what does that mean? I can only access this channel through Hugh after youtube made you have a google mail account
100s of Biologists have signed the statement "Scientific
Dissent From Darwinism" including evolutionary biologist and textbook author Dr. Stanley Salthe; quantum chemist Henry Schaefer at the University of Georgia; U.S. National Academy of Sciences member Philip Skell; American Association for the Advancement of Science Fellow Lyle Jensen; Russian Academy of Natural Sciences embryologist Lev Beloussov; and geneticist Giuseppe Sermonti, Editor Emeritus of Rivista di Biologia / Biology Forum
@Galmozzi99 This is how the confusion is spread, you have no idea who any of those scientists are, you just cut and pasted your entiire comment from a god squad web site, do some thinking for your self for once
He seems perfectly cogent, to ascribe early Alzheimer's to someone who was never diagnosed with it is ludicrous, he is simply an old man still capable of changing his mind based on what he honestly admits as evidence. He may be right or wrong but I lost my Dad to Alzheimer's & there is no similarity.
@Galmozi99 Sorry to hear about your father, it's rotten I've been close to Alzheimer's, but I'm guessing you're not aware that Flew died of complications associated with Alzheimer's last year, he had started telling people that Darwin had a deathbed conversion, I'm not sure where he was getting his information from, Darwin's family had long since repudiated any truth in the Lady Hope story. Also the book Flew "wrote" There is a God was co-written by Roy Varghese, hardly an impartial collaborator
@hughjarrse wrote"Flew died of complications associated with Alzheimer's last year"
Can find no confirmation of this, can you please provide the evidence for this diagnosis. I can only find speculation on atheist sites but no properly cited diagnosis. Yeah, Alzheimer's is brutal to watch someone go through.
@Gamzz9 I know there's no specific reference to be found on the web, I am going by news reports at the time (live in England and it made the news over here) What is very strange is that there doesn't seem to be ANY reference as to the cause of his death, I'm quite sure if he had died of a heart attack or a stroke the god squad would be really pushing for the release of that info, we're in a unique situation here as we're seeing religion in action, I've seen people who think he became a christian
@Galmozzi99 You have to realise that "atheists" as you like to label defenders of Flew have his legacy to protect, I'm assuming you're into god and I'm also assuming that like 99% of all theists you had never heard of Flew but merely cleaved to him when you heard "atheist professor finds god", but what most people simply forget is that no new evidence has been uncovered in the last 30yrs so what makes you think he was wrong while he was at the height of his intellectual powers, but right at 85?
@hughjarrse so you have no evidence? My opinion or knowledge of Flew is of little importance. I asked you to supply evidence of your assertion that he "died of complications associated with Alzheimer's last year". Like all of us Dr. Flew was entitled to change his mind. The "atheist" sites I referred to include the Panda's thumb & Michael Shermer's skeptic site. Am I wrong in labeling them as Atheist?
@Galmozzi99 You're not addressing the reason Flew "changed" his mind, do you really believe Flew left it till his 9th decade to do his most uncluttered most focused thinking? the problem is the god squad are so desperate to get a "recognized" professor on their side they'll even exploit the frailties of a sick old man, Just ask your self why not in his 50's. 60's or even 80's ? he was convinced by Michael Behe's work in biology, work that was debunked at the Dover school trial
@hughjarrse The only issue I have addressed and the one you are now deflecting is your assertion that he died from Alzheimer's. If you want detailed arguments on the functional, specified & complex information contained in DNA that Dr. Flew cites in the video as the reason for his change of position then you will need to read the relevant articles & books. 500 character utube debates won't cut it.
If you only wish to debate Evolution find someone else, my comment was regarding his health.
@Galmozzi99 I would love specific and detailed information in DNA (RNA) that attempts to disprove a naturalistic beginning to life, along with the names of the "professors" and the universities where those views are held, you see if there was any truth in it whatsoever don't you think there would be at least one non religious scientist/professor looking for a Nobel prize, conversely there are countless religious scientists not impressed with it
@hughjarrse I think I have your answer (or lack therof) regarding Flew's death. Good luck in your obsession with these evolution topics you keep bringing up. As I said not my interest find someone else.
@Galmozzi99 "If you only wish to debate Evolution" whoa!! hold on I missed that, there is no debate in the scientific world over evolution, if you don't accept evolution as fact you may as well believe the earth is 6,000yrs old, Noah really had an Ark and that Adam & Eve were real people, or that the earth was visited by intergalctic warriors 75 million years ago lead by the war lord Xenu (Xemu) because you're not even observing the world you inhabit, and worse still you ignore those that do!
@Galmozzi99 IFlew spent 50yrs trying to find out the secrets of the universe and the philosophical state of the human condition and now people want him to be remembered as the professor who in his 9th decade slipped back to the "magic man did" cop out that needs no thought or consideration and in fact answers absolutely nothing, by definition a standpoint from ignorance. I actually volunteer at a Alzheimer's and dementia specific care home, and sometimes it's hard to tell visitors from residents
@AzBirdDog many things in nature elude human science, starfish and salamanders grow lost limbs back, sharks don't get cancer and fruit flies don't age, but that shouldn't stop research into these issues. "To this day, science cannot create something like a bean" a bit unfair after all it took nature 12 billion years, man has improved beans & seeds with genetic modification. science can create quarks & electrons, the building blocks of beans (& everything else) Price for beans? just your reason
Yes, he's a man who watches, for the first time, for himself, and sees that he's nothing. His disease legitimes his speech. La douleur c'est la plus grand conselheira para les hommes orgulhosos.
Why do the christian pick up on this? He says intelligence, not god. And if he did where did he say its the christian god as described in the bible? That god is a genocidal, child murdering, slavery endorsing, misogynistic, inept, moron with no determinable rhyme or reason to its actions. That god could not microwave water let along 'design ' a cell. not surprised these looser took advantage of an old man with Alzheimer's because there has to be an organic brain defect to buy the load they sell.
@lookatmepleasesir "he seems completely relaxed and coherent. There's better footage you could have used to make him look confused" this wasn't posted with any "manipulation" intended, it's a mirror of an upload that was posted with the comments disabled, as I'm sure you're aware nearly all creationists disallow comments as a safety measure, they can't have rationality creeping in
God gets blamed for the failures and sins of mankind. Man is responsible even in our time for destroying, polluting our World. Man is guilty for deaths on earth caused by man made uncurable diseases. Man himself turned his back on God, for whom hee will stand at the end of his time on earth. Men can mock, blaspheme but the day we all will stand before the Word of God we rejected will definitely come. Just a food for your thought, God knows you, thats why u have ur own Name, Fingerprint, DNA
@BlackKlitschkofan "Man is guilty for deaths on earth caused by man made uncurable diseases" Malaria and smallpox have killed billions of people over the years, I seem to remember jesus' favorite disease was leprosy, the diseases your god made have killed far more than any "man made" diseases you could mention, in fact even in the bible your god unleashes "plagues" on people, so it's probably a good thing he doesn't exist because a god like the god of the bible would be an uncaring evil monster
your god sits watching a man rape a baby and does nothing to stop it, and don't give me the "freewill" crap because where's the babies freewill not to be raped? the ridiculous notion of freewill just means the freewill of the strong overpowers the freewill of the weak! your god sits and watched Hitler kill millions of Jews because he can't stop Hitler's freewill, the Jews however have no freewill
The Book of Hosea 4:6 my people perish because of lack of knowledge, not because they are only bad or evil, but many will perish because they remained uninformed. The truth is out there for everybody to see. Just like in the days of Noah, men mocked, cursed at the Word of God about the coming flood. The hour came upon all of them like a thief in the night. God doesnt mean any harm to anybody, He loves you, because He made you. Its your decision to choose life or death, thats free will.
Im believer who was also an atheist. My Uncle was a Professor and a Doctor of science, one of my biggest mentors. Seen many of his seminars, books and tapes of carl Sagan, Darwin etc God in His grace and mercy saved and called me. I dont see any confused Anthony Flew,he definitely old here,but hasnt lost a bit of his humour. he was never a man who you put words into his mouth.For him to have come this far, he mustve been convinced about what he was going to say.
Hhahahah, when I read the info I realized that autor of this video is weak atheist, because he defending his atheistic statement, because ex-atheist philospoher changed his mind. So the weaknes is shown, simply by calling anthony flew with some names of illnes, and showing that it is sad case, and that he became deist or theist because of his illnes. WTF,man you cant kill faith, you cant kill god, we are in god, and god is in us. hello, first you have realize what god is, dont be little child.
Flew was a deep slow and precise thinker the young arrogant bombardment by JarredJammer just revealed nothing more than the Yammer of the post-modernist
twit. I am actually an atheist in the sense that i don't give a stuff about the ins and outs of theology. Flew gave a considered and thought ful and respectful attempt to answer some poorly constucted. I only hope that I retain his cognitive abilities at his age, I am in fact a Geriatrician in charge of ACAT assesments at a major Hospital.
@FlgOff044038 "I am in fact a Geriatrician in charge of ACAT assesments at a major Hospital" So the fact he started telling people that Darwin had a deathbed conversion, Darwin's family putting that lie to bed many years ago doesn't seem strange to you? and I have to question your diagnostic abilities seeing as Flew died from complications associated with Alzheimer's a few years after this video! tell me where did all the new "evidence" come from to change Flews mind?
@FlgOff044038 As has been pointed out elsewhere on this thread, to take Flews about turn seriously you have to accept he left it till his 9th decade to do his most clear uncluttered most focused thinking! while at the height of his intellectual powers he assessed the available evidence and wasn't convinced by the "creator" hypothesis, yet in his 9th decade a few years before he died from Alzheimer's disease it all "suddenly" falls into place, I wonder what William of Ockham's view would be?
I've come to believe that some ID ppl really, earnestly believe in their scientific validity and actually do not see the obvious conflict of interest with their spiritual beliefs. They are so locked into their framework that they are actually excited to ratify it through "science" and are not capable of seeing beyond the zone they are in. In this sense, it's a bit of "not-guilty by reason of insanity" in that they actually can't see what it is they are really doing.
@Believerification "Kent Hovind is another creation scientist. What do you say about him (as if I didn't know)" wow! now you're scraping the barrel, even AIG distance themselves from Hovind, Hovind uses big words to fool the people he lectures to, he uses the conservation of angular momentum to show the big bang never happened, which is very impressive....... to an idiot, you can't proscribe the conservation of angular momentum to energy, energy has no mass, Hovind is a con man (literally)
@JoshuaTrio "my child has no choice but to go to school? The child still has the choice to make when the time comes--" your child might surprise you, you child might surprise it's self, but in you world god knows the outcome before the child is born, and so the child has no choice, your child can't surprise god even of the child wants to, the child is powerless to do any other than what your god already knows, your god knew what Hitler was going to do before Hitler was born, Hitler had no choice
@cooIandcalculated ..ur making a mistake in assuming that because god knows what you will do god has determined what you do this is incorrect, god knows what you will do not because he MAKES you do it but because he does not experience time as we do in 24hr blocks 7 days a week etc...as he is outside of time and space he can see what you will FREELY choose to do and could intervene if he wanted.. this is also called a mircale..hitler made all his evil decisions freely with no influence of god..
@tublet13 It's more complicated than that, god knows Hilter is going to kill millions of innocent people and lets him get on with it, if someone told me they were going home to kill their children and I didn't do everything I could to stop them that would make me a monster. If god knows you will die on 23rd of June nothing you can do can change that without proving god wrong, if you jump off the Empire state building on the 19th of June you still can't die till the 23rd without proving god wrong
When you say god will let him get on with it, this is true only because god did not create a world where he intervenes every single time evil will occur, this does NOT MEAN EVIL goes unpunished..the day of judgment is for good reason and god being good and just will ultimately deal with any evil...unless your sins have been forgiven. In response to your god knowing my death, this is illogical if i die on the 19th instead of the 23rd god knew i would die on the 19th he is never wrong.
@JoshuaTrio "my child has no choice but to go to school? The child still has the choice to make when the time comes--" your child might surprise you, you child might surprise it's self, but in you world god knows the outcome before the child is born, and so the child has no choice, your child can't surprise god even of the child wants to, the child is powerless to do any other than what your god already knows, your god knew what Hitler was going to do before Hitler was born, Hitler had no choice
@Believerification Another instance were Hovind shows he "aint that bright" he preaches that there was no rain fall on the earth before the flood and all his brain dead followers just accept it, but just a tiny bit of thought shows that can't possibly be true, because that would mean that water didn't evaporate before the flood, it would mean no trees, grass or bushes could grow above the water table and no clouds
As for your spiders---You keep forgetting God is omniscient. This is a plan of faith, evenly balanced so that even evidence like miracles can be doubted if one loves wickedness enough.
@Believerification "You keep forgetting God is omniscient. This is a plan of faith" so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong, I'm curios, do you think there would be freewill in heaven? it's a very important question if you believe your god to be omnipotent
@JoshuaTrio Why in the world do you think that knowing what will happen in the future, say, that my child will grow up and go to school, means that my child has no choice but to go to school? The child still has the choice to make when the time comes---I just know what they're going to choose. Simple. I'm not CAUSING the choice; I'm just know ahead of time. What was the point? Well, read the Bible, it explains the point; we like to call it salvation.
@Believerif "my child has no choice but to go to school? The child still has the choice to make when the time comes--" your child might surprise you, you child might surprise it's self, but in you world god knows the outcome before the child is born, and so the child has no choice, your child can't surprise god even of the child wants to, the child is powerless to do any other than what your god already knows, your god knew what Hitler was going to do before Hitler was born, Hitler had no choice
@Believerification "You keep forgetting God is omniscient. This is a plan of faith" so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong, I'm curios, do you think there would be freewill in heaven? it's a very important question if you believe your god to be omnipotent
@Believerification so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong, I'm curios, do you think there would be freewill in heaven? it's a very important question if you believe your god to be omnipotent
@Believerification "You keep forgetting God is omniscient." so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong, I'm curios, do you think there would be freewill in heaven? it's a very important question if you believe your god to be omnipotent
@Believerification "You keep forgetting God is omniscient." so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong, I'm curios, do you think there would be freewill in heaven?
@Believerification "You keep forgetting God is omniscient." so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong,
"You keep forgetting God is omniscient." so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong,
@Believerification so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong, I'm curios, do you think there would be freewill in heaven? it's a very important question if you believe your god to be omnipotent
You're missing the point: In Galileo's day the MAJORITY said the sun revolves around the earth---that's you! the majority.Dye no' get it? Will Eh hae tae explain it tae ye?
@Believerification "You're missing the point: In Galileo's day the MAJORITY said the sun revolves around the earth" no you're proving mine, we now have empirical evidence that the earth orbits the sun, and anyone who denies the earth orbits the sun would have to ignore that evidence, we have empirical evidence for a multi billion year old universe, and for evolution, to deny either is to ignore that evidence, and the only reason to ignore it comes from a bronze age book by an unknown author
Dude, it's EXACTLY like Galileo: the sun revolves around your earth; my earth revolves around The Son. By your logic the majority is always right; you see this, right? I mean, it doesn't escape you, does it?
Your convinced evolution isn't true, yet if it's not true your god made snakes, spiders, jellyfish, frogs with toxins designed to kill other living things, pitcher plants and Venus fly traps designed to catch living things, it's a senseless view of the world, why do you have toe nails? and why do your sinuses get blocked?, why are yawns infectious? why do groups of women synchronize menstrual cycles? evolutions answers all these, a designer doesn't appendix anyone?.. sheesh!
@Believerification by the way don't be fooled by the spurious tales that the appendix is part of the immune system, it's total creationist crap, the appendix kills an estimated 2.5 million people a year through peritonitis, yet no one who has ever had their appendix removed has shown any immune deficiency, some design that is
@Believerification "I think I've shown you those scientists you said don't exist" you've shown me one? I can probably find one scientist who will tell you that his car runs on milk, what should trouble you is that there is not a single non religious scientist anywhere in the world that denies evolution or a multi billion year old universe, the Catholic church (the largest christian organization) accepts evolution. I noticed you never explained why god made spiders poisonous
@Believerification This is what it boils down to, I can give you 100's of thousands of scientists with PhD's that will tell you evolution is a fact, you can provide a handful that disagree, you choose to believe this tiny minority because it suits you, it's like 50'000 doctors telling you to use rifampicin and clofazimine to treat your leprosy and two fruitcake doctors suggesting snickers and M&M's and you believing them because you like chocolate
No, actually I don't have to admit Xenu, because you're forgetting one ginormous thing: there is TONS of evidence for Yahweh: churches, believers, manuscripts, witnesses, miraculous healings in his name, demons cast out in his name, changed lives, etc and nil for Xenu. Yes, for all you know, one can ride a bicycle on the sun. Someone drove a rover on the moon, didn't they? Who would have thought that possible?
@Believerification "miraculous healings in his name, demons cast out in his name, changed lives, etc and nil for Xenu" nil for Xenu, maybe Tom Cruise would disagree, but I find it quite uncomfortable having a duologue with someone who believes in demons, not to mention thinks it's possible that someone has ridden a bike on the sun, but when you believe things without evidence you have to accept everything is possible, you have to accept Elvis may be alive somewhere, and that Santa exists
The 6000 year timeline is entirely your contribution to the discussion, not mine. And, with Galileo as our example, we all know why many scientists tow the party line regarding evolution: they know the funding will stop and the ridicule will begin. Ever heard of the Institute for Creation Research: Behe, etc.? That's quite a number of Phd's.
Now you just said God doesn't exist---so prove it. Scientifically, one should reserve judgment if they don't know something for a fact. Of course, you don't have to prove it, right? You can just say something doesn't exist without any proof it doesn't exist, and that's ok. Try not to respond with what every single atheist says at this point.
@Believerification "Now you just said God doesn't exist---so prove it. Scientifically, one should reserve judgment if they don't know something for a fact" very poor argument, because to avoid being a hypocrite you have to admit Xenu is as likely to exist as Yahweh, and I'm pretty sure no one has ever ridden a bicycle on the sun, but I can't prove it so now I don't know what to think!
@Believerification "Try not to respond with what every single atheist says at this point" that's very funny considering you just used the pathetic old chestnut "prove god doesn't exist" but of course that's a redundant prerequisite, it's like saying "what is 5x5? and try not to respond with what every mathematician says at this point"
@Believerification "Ever heard of the Institute for Creation Research: Behe, etc.?"yes it's a christian lead bible research centre not interested in science, just pushing god,Behe was their chief witness at the Dover school trial and was shown to be a less than reliable witness by the judge, he even believes astrology has it's place in science, he maintains the bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex, it's not you can remove 80% of it's parts and have a bacterial syringe (TTSS)
Re: Scientists: There are no credible scientists who believe in creation---Credible by YOUR standards. Is it so difficult for you to be honest with yourself and admit that the criterion for "credible" is whether or not they agree with you? Do you believe in religious freedom? Why do you worry about what Christians believe?
@Believerification "Re: Scientists: There are no credible scientists who believe in creation---Credible by YOUR standards" OK, forget MY standards, just give me some scientists who deny evolution, and believe the universe is 6,000yrs old?
@Believerification "Why do you worry about what Christians believe?" I don't care what christians believe, I do care when christians try to get religion into science lessons and mislead children, would you be happy for scientologist's to force children to believe the was a war lord called Xenu (Xemu) 75 million years ago that used earth as a dumping ground for his enemies?, of course there isn't any empirical evidence for that, but that's why it's called religion
Re: Empirical evidence: That's why it's called religion... Lol. When you're talking about suffering, God is omnipotent and omniscient; when you're talking about doing good, God is neither. Go back to the babies... Are they alive or dead? By your logic: If God knew there would be smallpox on day x, and it would kill a baby---you just said he wouldn't be omnipotent, i.e. couldn't change it---but you blame him just the same. Why don't YOU say what powers God has and we'll work with that.
@Believerification "you just I don't blame him, how could I blame something that doesn't exist, that would be like blaming Elmer Fudd for a rise in animal cruelty, But it's worth pointing out to someone who believes their god is omniscient that prayer is pointless, as for gods powers, I believe he has exactly the same powers as Harry Potter, what ever the author of the bible decides (who ever that author was)he wouldn't be omnipotent, i.e. couldn't change it---but you blame him just the same"
A bunch of scientists were talking to God, they said, "We can make life, no problem, you just take a little dirt..." But God said, "Use your own dirt."
@Believerification And there in lies the problem, were did the building blocks for this god come from? you can't just spout "gods magic" because that tells you nothing, the god squaders would pray to ease demonic possession, scientists developed Tegretol to control epilepsy, clergymen would pray to save children from smallpox, scientists cured it, scientists have saved the lives of far more people than any belief in god, even if he did exist, and if he did exist he would uncaring be a monster
@cooIandcalculated And therein lies the problem: If the universe created man, who created the universe? Do epileptics cry, "You are the son of God?" Does tranqulizing epileptics "cure" them? You have no idea how many people God has cured. Show me the scientific study, and stop making unscientific claims. If God is to blame for sickness and suffering, then God is also to be praised for the alleviation of these things. You blame God for the bad and praise science for the good.
@Believerification We are living now, not in the delicious intoxication induced by the early successes of science, but in a rather grisly morning-after, when it has become apparent that what triumphant science has done hitherto is to improve the means for achieving unimproved or actually deteriorated ends.
In this condition of apprehensive sobriety we are able to see that the contents of literature, art, music---even in some measure divinity and school metaphysics---are not sophistry and illusion, but simply those elements of experience which scientists chose to leave out of account
@Believerification t for the good reason that they had no intellectual methods for dealing with them. In the arts, in philosophy, in religion men are trying---doubtless, without complete success---to describe and explain non-measurable, purely qualitative aspects of reality.
Scientists have no right to claim that this product of incompetence and specialization is a complete picture of reality. As a matter of historical fact, however, this claim has constantly been made.
They are convinced that the scientific picture of an arbitrary abstraction from reality is a picture of reality as a whole and that therefore the world is without meaning or value.
@Believerification .Our conviction that the world is meaningless is due in part to the fact that the philosophy of meaninglessness lends itself very effectively to furthering erotic ends or political passion; in part to a genuine intellectual error---the error of identifying the world of science, a world from which all meaning and value has been deliberately excluded, with ultimate reality.
@Believerification "Does tranqulizing epileptics "cure" them?" "stop making unscientific claims" you use the term "tranqulizing epileptics" and then accuse ME of making unscientific claims! wow.
"If God is to blame for sickness and suffering, then God is also to be praised for the alleviation of these things"
Utter rubbish, if god allows the smallpox virus to exist then he takes the blame for EVERY child and baby that died the horrific death from smallpox before MAN worked out a cure
@cooIandcalculated Have any kids? When they're learning to walk do you prevent them falling down? So every time someone may get hurt or suffer God should step in and prevent it? What happened to not wanting the father who would never leave you alone, never stop watching over you? So what you want is paradise, while you do evil? Evil to live forever, and yet you want to never suffer. Well, the wages of sin is death.
@Believerification God didn't make your smallpox; the FALL from God made the smallpox. Obviously, you haven't killed yourself yet, so the good in this life you keep living for, must outweigh the bad. So, God (in your mind) being responsible for both good and bad, must be pretty good for you to keep living and enjoying life (notwithstanding all the suffering). But we both know, the only time you care about suffering is when you're arguing with Christians;.
@Believerification "God didn't make your smallpox; the FALL from God made the smallpox" Really so this god of yours is so EVIL he allows a 6 month old baby to die an excruciating death because of the wrong doing of people who lived 1,000's of years before the baby was born? even though the baby cannot have sinned? equating a child falling down and getting a bruise with dying from Rabies, Necrosis or Leprosy, is ridiculous, if you knew of a Dr who could cure these but wouldn't you'd hate him!
@cooIandcalculated But don't stop there... Since you know God is omniscient,, omnipotent, omnipresent---what are you pretending to get so disturbed over a child's death for? Don't stop there... NO CHILD DIED EVER!! You are the one who is going to die unless you repent. And that is what you're really worried about. Those children have everlasting life! There's no death, no tragedy, no catastrophe WITH GOD!?! Don't stop there since you know so much about God.
@Believerification We're talking about the author of life---and you cry about a child's death---You! whose daily SIN makes possible more death. Nothing is lost with God. There is no memory that can't be erased through eternal life. Any bad memory that sticks in the mind prior to ETERNAL life will one day seem like a bruised knee seems to us in remote childhood. God's wisdom destroys your human wisdom. Through God we demolish every argument.
@Believerification I'll explain the reason it's impossible to be both omniscient and omnipotent, you believe your god could tell you the day you will die if he wanted to using omniscience, but if he told you the day you will die he then can't use his omnipotence to change that day without being wrong when he told you the day you would die, omniscience make you impotent, because you can never change anything
"God's wisdom destroys your human wisdom" only if he exists, I see no evidence he does
Respond to this video...Stephen Hawking: , "Galileo, perhaps more than any other single person, was responsible for the birth of modern science."
Heresy (rebelling against the SCIENCE of his day, kinda like us) or no, he believed in a CREATOR. Not so useless are we? Somehow you believe there are no modern Christian scientists... you are truly brainwashed and blind.
@Believerification "Somehow you believe there are no modern Christian scientists." What makes you think that? Ken Miller is a very fine scientists and he's catholic, there are no credible scientists that dispute evolution, and no credible scientists who believe the universe is 6,000yrs old, of course there are scientists who believe in god, non accept Adam & Eve, or Noah's Ark
@Believerification "you are truly brainwashed and blind" I find that extremely funny, you probably think Tom Cruise is a nutter for his religious beliefs, yet his religion (like every other religion) has the same amount of empirical evidence as your religion, .... none
@Believerification "God didn't make your smallpox; the FALL from God made the smallpox" I thought god made everything? are you saying smallpox evolved? why do snakes, frogs spiders all have poisons capable of killing? did they evolve? chameleons have a 2 foot long spring loaded sticky tongue perfect for catching it's prey, why? according to you there was no death in the garden, are you saying chameleons had to sneak up and catch leaves with their tongue, or did the tongue evolve?
@Believerification "But we both know, the only time you care about suffering is when you're arguing with Christians" I have no particular problem with christians, they are no different to scientologist's or moonies, all believe stuff with absolutely no proof, it's a bit easier to have a dig at christians because they believe in a god that allows Hitler to be born knowing exactly what he is going to do, and because of your gods supposed omniscience, Hitler was powerless to do anything different
@Believerification Every single pedophile priest child rapist and killer is known about by your god before they set foot on the earth, god knows the victims and the victims families, he knows every single aspect of the pain an suffering caused, he also knows the child rapist is powerless to halt his evil destiny because god has already seem then commit the crimes, and god is never wrong, god is no different to a nasty kid releasing pirnahs into a gold fish pond and watching the carnage
@Believerification "And therein lies the problem: If the universe created man, who created the universe?" exactly the same question as, if god created the universe, who created god, science is trying to work these huge questions out with quantum physics and experiment, the religious don't try to work anything out, they just say "god is magic" and expect people to accept it. Hawking could say "the big bang was magic, so needs no expatiation" but that would be bullshit too
@cooIandcalculated For some reason you think 'science=atheist"---not so; many of the greatest scientists, i.e. Galileo, Faraday, Newton, Pasteur, believed in a Creator. Science is not the private domain of atheists. The Big Bang: God spoke, and BANG, it happened. If some proposition is a theory, e.g. The Big Bang, one shouldn't ridicule those who believe otherwise; it's not scientific to rule out possibilities before the facts are known.
@Believerification "Galileo, Faraday, Newton, Pasteur, believed in a Creator" Galileo was jailed for heresy, Newton was a gay alchemist, there is little point in saying scientists from 100's of years ago believed in god because their's was a viewpoint from ignorance. even me and you have a wider perspective because we had the advantage of Darwin, Einstein, Watson & Crick etc
its obvious that this video IS edited, you can easily see the pauses added, the video loops. the creator of this video is the one that is exploiting him.
To add to insult even the video uploader can't spell his correct name...it's Antony not Anthony...if you can't spell his name you have no right to comment on his life concerning what happened and didn't happen.
@Gaga4Parma " Such is life but flew doesn't deserve to have all his life work tarnished by some idiots" Hold on Flew's entire life's work and legacy has been tarnished by these parasitic opportunists, and Dawkins has pointed out how "sad" Flew's demise is, and in fact Flew started telling people that Darwin had a deathbed conversion and on your second point, the only thing added to the title of this video is "uncensored" the "H" was present in the original censored version, this is a mirror
@cooIandcalculated: First I don't believe Flew had a mental demise...Nietzsche had a mental demise. You cannot claim Flew had mental health problems as there is little to no evidence of his mental demise. So please don't spreading untruths.
Secondly so what if he believed that Darwin had a death bed conversion? There are plenty of peeople who do believe it even academics circles...especially given what the Darwin family would gain or lose if the Lady Hope story turned out to be true.
@Gaga4ParmaFlew died last year from complications associated with Alzheimer's, if you knew anything about Alzheimer's you would know you don't get it over night, and Secondly he along with everyone else had dismissed Lady Hope's despicable lies about Darwin while he was in control of his faculties, so tell me what new evidence could possibly have come to light to change Flews mind, CCTV footage maybe, The Darwin family have nothing to lose, Chuck D was a genius even if he was confused at death
@cooIandcalculated: You are missing the point. Change requires intellectual resources you are saying he had a mental demise...if he had a mental demise he would no longer have the resources required to make an intellectual change. It's simple. It's irrational to say he lost his mind but somehow managed to find the resources to do an intellectual 180.
@Gaga4Parma "Change requires intellectual resources you are saying he had a mental demise" wrong you become more open to suggestion, so you think it's a coincidence that Flews "book" was co authored by Varghese, so tell me this if Louis Farrakhan was in his 9th decade and out of nowhere a book came out called "Why Xenu is the truth" that was co-authored by David Miscavige, and to put the tin lid on Louis dies a few years later from Alzheimer's, what credence would it have with NOI nutjobs? none
@cooIandcalculated: We have to deal with what actually happened not "if". We have to deal with facts and what actually took place.
One of the traits of Alzheimers is the inability to aquire new information. Flew never showed actual signs of not being able to retain nor form new information. This is a fact. It directly contradicts his supposed "demise".
@Gaga4Parma "We have to deal with what actually happened not "if"."Flew in his 9th decade came to believe that the universe was too complicated to have come about by accident, this is an argument from personal incredulity, he had no trouble with this argument while he was at the height of his intellectual powers, no new evidence has come to light in the last 25yrs, the universe has always seemed too complicated to have come about by accident to the casual thinker, tell me what's changed?
@Gaga4Parma Even more disturbing are the people who demand Flew became a christian! he maintained he didn't believe in an after life or an interventionist god, he was persuaded by arguments in biology, argument put forward by Michael Behe, there are very few biologists swayed by Behe's arguments, in fact two of Behe's main arguments were shown to be false in the Dover ID trail. "We have to deal with facts and what actually took place" a very old man changed his mind before dying from Alzheimer's
@Gaga4Parma But the real nub of the matter is the grasping from the god squad to get heavyweight thinkers on their side, they have seen rational thought all but end the ridiculous "universe built in 6 days 6,000yrs ago" that lots of people believed up until a few hundred years ago, demonic possession has been replaced by epilepsy, no one really believes in miracles anymore, You don't get Atheists crowing about Mother Theresa being an Atheist, they don't need ex theistic big hitters to add weight
@Gaga4Parma "it's so shameful to see atheists have turned on him."turned on him? no one has turned on him! the poor bloke died from a dreadful illness, an illness we might be a bit closer to understanding if fruitcake religious nutters would keep out of things like stem cell research! the true shame on show here is the parasites reveling in Flews demise to bolster their idiotic childlike beliefs. I'm a little disappointed to see you live in the UK, were you aware of Flew before the vultures came
@cooIandcalculated: tbh this video shows him to be coherant...and yeah atheists have turned their back on him...dawkins certainly has and he speaks for alot of people. Antony was a human just like all of us and we all go through various stage of understanding and understand changes throughout our life time. Such is life but flew doesn't deserve to have all his life work tarnished by some idiots...if you're an atheist; flew signed and delivered most of the groundwork for atheism today.
@TaeKenDo Do you really not get it? this guy was in his 9th decade, he actually died last year of complications associated with Alzheimer's disease! the reason the god squad is making a big deal over Flew (admit it you'd never heard of him) is because they need a credible advocate, there are no new questions to answer he had no trouble answering these questions when he was at the height of his intellectual powers, he NEVER said he believed in an after life, or an interventionist god
@TaeKenDo "Athiests are so Consciously Ignorant it's Unbelievable!!" and you parasites have to wait for a world famous philosopher and rational thinker to succumb to dementia to try and get them on your side, I have watched religion in action since Flews death, you get dozens of christian articles about "how the worlds most famous atheist became a christian" which is an out and out LIE, but hey whatever it takes to bolster your spurious bullshit!!!
@TaeKenDo This is theology in a nut shell, a plane crashes with 300 people on board, 299 die a horrible painful death and one person survives and "IT'S A MIRACLE, GOD IS SO GRACIOUS, GOD IS SO GREAT" no one gives a shit about the 299 dead and the 1,000's of families devastated, not to mention god could save them all if he wanted too, but what's a few dead babies to god? he let 500 million die of small pox in the last 200yrs 120yrs before a cure was found. If he existed he would be EVIL deified
This video is so manipulative! He does not have the beginnings of dementia at all. Lee Strobel is just asking him some philosophical questions that he has not really pondered before, and is thinking about them as he's being asked about the questions. When atheists make manipulative, and distorted comments about any, and ALL topics having to do with Christianity, scripture, God, etc..... It just makes them seem DESPERATE, and willing to do absolutely anything to turn people away from accepting
"He does not have the beginnings of dementia at all. Lee Strobel is just asking him some philosophical questions that he has not really pondered before"
He died from Alzheimer's last year, Strobel is asking him some questions he hadn't pondered before!! so what new questions has Strobel come up with that his predecessors didn't know about? there are no new questions, they're always the same questions rehashed basically "it's too complicated to have no designer" but god needs no designer... why?
This video just proves to me how petty you atheist really are. Why don't you go and try to refute his arguments rather than going on about how he has alzheimers. Really bad taste old chaps
@thebeerbaron666 For fucks sake matey, all Flews "reasons" are and have been refuted, most of the by Flew himself before he fell ill, the guy changes his mind about his entire life's work a few years before he dies of Alzheimer's disease and you see no correlation?
"Really bad taste old chaps" what is bad taste is the parasites who plunder a sick man because they have no credible spokesmen of their own
He is speaking very clearly and decisively. If in fact he had alzheimer's when this video was made, it obviously wasn't affecting his faculties of communication. And if you, JarredJammer, actually think alzheimer's influenced him into changing his entire educated worldview so drastically and specifically, you don't know much about the man or alzheimer's.
@redrer13 You seem to be wrong on both fundamental points you raise, I, unlike the parasites who have claimed Flew recently, have been aware of Flew and his work for decades, I met him briefly in the 80's after a lecture, and this video is a disturbingly pale shadow of his former self (thats why I posted the video) and as for knowing little of Alzheimer's disease! I unfortunately know far more about it than I would ever have wished to. this is grasping at straws for credulity for the incredulous
@TheJarredJammer Of course he's a pale shadow of the man you met in the 80's, he's almost 30 years older and in his eighties, what do you expect? You should be so lucky, to be able to articulate your thoughts and ideas as well as he does at that age. Your attempt to discredit his realization of the truth is pitiful.
@projectlevydelta Do you have any proof of this? The Geometric Dating and fossils that you mention, along with other scientific dating measures are actually quite accurate (given the periods of time we are dealing with) yet you have absolutely NOTHING to proof the Biblical claims other than "its written in the Bible". That my friend is circular reasoning.
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"There is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind" by Anthony Flew
This book makes Richard Dawkins' book or Christopher Hirchens book look like comic books.
If Anthony Flew can see these things, why not Dawkins or why didn't Hitchens? The answer is Flew used his mind sufficiently in regards to arguments while Dawkins and Hitchens have not done so. They failed to put pieces together.
PureAirSolutions 4 weeks ago
God bless you for your courage and honesty Antony, rest in peace.
noblefailure 1 month ago 2
if he had been like of course there isnt a god and was believing in atheism then you wouldn't have of gone against his statements and gone against him after death
joshmanownz 2 months ago
@joshmanownz i totally agree with you! its really pathetic that these atheists have to slime and smear someone just because he disagrees. And I though that they hate people forcing their beliefs down another's throat and that they were all for tolerance and open-mindedness. Most likely none of them have even bothered to read Flew's final book, which was far better than Dawkins's book, btw.
synal 1 month ago
this video is wishful thinking, antony flew isn't suffering from any illness, he absolutely knows what he's saying, and the scientific facts he studied.
KatanaRapierCombo2 2 months ago
@KatanaRapierCombo2 so true if antony flew had said of course there isnt a god they would of agreed with him and praised but as soon as he changes his mind they go against him and insult him after death
joshmanownz 1 month ago
again, an atheist believes in this misconception: science=atheism
half-wit -.-
KatanaRapierCombo2 3 months ago
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@KatanaRapierCombo2 "again, an atheist believes in this misconception: science=atheism
half-wit -.-"
Actually you got it slightly wrong, the more intelligent you are the more likely you are to be an Atheist, that's a fact like it or not, check out the united nations development index, the most atheistic countries have the highest academic achievement rates, but you already know this, 44% of Americans think the universe is less than 10,000yrs old!!
hughjarrse 3 months ago
@hughjarrse really? albert einstein wasn't an atheist, neither was isaac newton, or galileo galilee. in the united nations development index, the most atheistic countries have the highest academic rates? in asia, most of the people highly excel in academics, but aren't atheists. if you think that the people i've shown were too ancient to realize the "modern facts", that's because you're not looking at the modern christian-scientists like; mark eastman, alister mcgrath, francis collins, etc.
KatanaRapierCombo2 2 months ago
@KatanaRapierCombo2 so true
joshmanownz 2 months ago
Comment removed
KatanaRapierCombo2 3 months ago
@hughjarrse So why should your voodoo evolution be taught? It's not a fact, buddy, it's a theocratic nightmare. Newton, Einstein, this fellow all of them conclude there is intelligence once they get over the massive gift of mind God gave them and survived the indoctrination of university. So you came from mud? Monkeys? If the earth were 4.5 billion years old, the moon would have been dragged into earth eons ago based on how far she drifts every year now. Stronger than throne jokes.
corioa 3 months ago
@corioa Wether or not there is an "intelligence" behind "life the universe & everything" is an unaswerable question, it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with evoluntion, evolution is a provable fact, not one biology department in any credible university anywhere in the world will teach you differently, if you get your education from "Dave's bible school & griil" of course you're not going to know anything and appear stupid, it's not your fault, it's a sad indictment of your education
hughjarrse 3 months ago
God didnt create himself.. God has no creator.. He is alpha and omega.. If u guys dont believe in God why do u get upset when people do?
MrRAIDR912 4 months ago
@MrRAIDR912 "God didnt create himself.. God has no creator.. He is alpha and omega"
why didn't you tell me this before? I don't know about anyone else but I'm convinced . . . . . :o)
hughjarrse 4 months ago
@MrRAIDR912 " Jesus is my Lord I believe he sits at the right hand of God"
I though Jesus was god, it's a metaphysical logistic nightmare, what do they do take turns in the "big chair"
All joking aside there is nothing wrong in believing what you want to believe in, the problem comes when you decide it should be taught in schools because you open the door to all the other nutters, if Christians can get their beliefs into schools with no evidence, why not scientologist's or Moonies
hughjarrse 4 months ago
@hughjarrse I WAS NEVER WAS TAUGHT THAT JESUS IS GOD and the bible doesnt each that either however jesus is a God
MrRAIDR912 3 months ago
I have listened to the whole video and although the interviewer does ask leading question Prof Flew does not answer those questions without elaborating on his answer, there demonstrating his understanding and thoughts on those questions.
Glenforbes60 4 months ago
@Glenforbes60 First there are some very strange edits, secondly Flew says the evidence is "stronger now" @02:12, yet all the evidence was available to Flew decades before this video, he is lead on to say the "creator" is both omniscient AND omnipotent which is impossible (yes even for a god) And the biggest problem is most of the god squad had no idea who Flew was until the ID people pounced looking for a "credible?" protagonist and never saw him at his intellectual height, just this pale shadow
hughjarrse 4 months ago
I think many atheists don't want to admit that one of their kind can convert to a faith, especially as someone as great as Flew, who prior to Richard Dawkins was the most eminent atheist. Therefore, they are going to make every excuse ( he was mentally ill, he was coerced etc.) Face it, Flew came to a conclusion. There is a God. Studying the metaphysics, biology, psychology, anthropology, philosophy and the rest of the universe. We are creatures so that means there had to be a Creator.
DCNY31279 4 months ago
@DCNY31279 It's fair to assume you had no idea whatsoever who Professor Flew was before the god squad parasites flooded in, "We are creatures so that means there had to be a Creator" that's just an argument from personal incredulity, you either can't think or are too lazy to think so you come out with the "magic man did it" theory, totally missing the point that any creator must be more complex than "his" creations, yet you're not in the slightest bit concerned where the magic man came from
hughjarrse 4 months ago
My opinion of biology is irrelevant but to only glean your info from you tube or Wikipedia may be the problem. Don't debate me, get published in a peer reviewed journal yourself if your such an expert. Be warned though they won't stand for your habit of false assertions.
Galmozzi99 4 months ago
@Galozzi9 "Don't debate me, get published in a peer reviewed journal yourself if your such an expert" I don't have to debate you, and I have no need to publish peer reviewed papers, there are 100's of 1,000's out there already, Michael Behe tried to push his spurious bullshit through a Dover court only to be confronted by scores of scientific papers on the bacterial flagellum, and his "irreducible complexity" myth was blown out of the water by the TTSS a bacterial syringe that predates flagellum
hughjarrse 4 months ago
@hughjarrse listen to yourself, the very language you use shows your lack of rational thought. Lets get this arguement down to the bare minimum. You are saying that you are god and can do what you like, I am saying that Jesus is God and I want to do as He says. Did you create yourself....no then pls logically explain how you came to be? You cant unless yu believe in a superior being that created all.
Glenforbes60 4 months ago
@Glenfor "listen to yourself, the very language you use shows your lack of rational thought"
It's not possible to be omniscient and omnipotent, if you know when and where everything is going to happen in the future using omniscience, then you can't change anything using omnipotence without compromising your omniscience, if I ask god to tell me the day I die, and he says 22nd Sep 2011, he is them powerless to alter that without being wrong when he told me the date! omniscience makes you impotent
hughjarrse 4 months ago
@Glenforbes60 "Did you create yourself....no then pls logically explain how you came to be?"
so you're saying god created himself? your argument is one from personal incredulity so you pluck a "magic man" out of thin air to rational your belief, all you need for matter is energy, and we know energy exists, if you need to go down an infinite regression choose energy to have always existed, because we know it exists, you believe something has always existed, without knowing if it EVER existed
hughjarrse 4 months ago
The comments don't allow me to put in the link but check out the most recent issue of the science journal Bio-Complexity for a peer reviewed article on the subject of the plausibility of the RNA world hypothesis.
All the best
Galmozzi99 4 months ago
Mostly I was just checking to see if this was your other account, busted!! Also you wanted a list and if you check it out you will find it grows weekly with scientists from many disciplines including hundreds of Biologists. So there goes another of your assertions "there is no debate in the scientific world over evolution". Those on the list are not all supporters of ID (some are Atheist) but they all have doubts over Darwinism and many of them are published.
Galmozzi99 4 months ago
@Galmozzi99 "Mostly I was just checking to see if this was your other account, busted!! " Busted? what does that mean? I can only access this channel through Hugh after youtube made you have a google mail account
hughjarrse 4 months ago
100s of Biologists have signed the statement "Scientific
Dissent From Darwinism" including evolutionary biologist and textbook author Dr. Stanley Salthe; quantum chemist Henry Schaefer at the University of Georgia; U.S. National Academy of Sciences member Philip Skell; American Association for the Advancement of Science Fellow Lyle Jensen; Russian Academy of Natural Sciences embryologist Lev Beloussov; and geneticist Giuseppe Sermonti, Editor Emeritus of Rivista di Biologia / Biology Forum
Galmozzi99 4 months ago
@Galmozzi99 This is how the confusion is spread, you have no idea who any of those scientists are, you just cut and pasted your entiire comment from a god squad web site, do some thinking for your self for once
hughjarrse 4 months ago
He seems perfectly cogent, to ascribe early Alzheimer's to someone who was never diagnosed with it is ludicrous, he is simply an old man still capable of changing his mind based on what he honestly admits as evidence. He may be right or wrong but I lost my Dad to Alzheimer's & there is no similarity.
Galmozzi99 5 months ago
@Galmozi99 Sorry to hear about your father, it's rotten I've been close to Alzheimer's, but I'm guessing you're not aware that Flew died of complications associated with Alzheimer's last year, he had started telling people that Darwin had a deathbed conversion, I'm not sure where he was getting his information from, Darwin's family had long since repudiated any truth in the Lady Hope story. Also the book Flew "wrote" There is a God was co-written by Roy Varghese, hardly an impartial collaborator
hughjarrse 5 months ago
@hughjarrse wrote"Flew died of complications associated with Alzheimer's last year"
Can find no confirmation of this, can you please provide the evidence for this diagnosis. I can only find speculation on atheist sites but no properly cited diagnosis. Yeah, Alzheimer's is brutal to watch someone go through.
Thx
Galmozzi99 5 months ago
@Gamzz9 I know there's no specific reference to be found on the web, I am going by news reports at the time (live in England and it made the news over here) What is very strange is that there doesn't seem to be ANY reference as to the cause of his death, I'm quite sure if he had died of a heart attack or a stroke the god squad would be really pushing for the release of that info, we're in a unique situation here as we're seeing religion in action, I've seen people who think he became a christian
hughjarrse 5 months ago
@Galmozzi99 You have to realise that "atheists" as you like to label defenders of Flew have his legacy to protect, I'm assuming you're into god and I'm also assuming that like 99% of all theists you had never heard of Flew but merely cleaved to him when you heard "atheist professor finds god", but what most people simply forget is that no new evidence has been uncovered in the last 30yrs so what makes you think he was wrong while he was at the height of his intellectual powers, but right at 85?
hughjarrse 5 months ago
@hughjarrse so you have no evidence? My opinion or knowledge of Flew is of little importance. I asked you to supply evidence of your assertion that he "died of complications associated with Alzheimer's last year". Like all of us Dr. Flew was entitled to change his mind. The "atheist" sites I referred to include the Panda's thumb & Michael Shermer's skeptic site. Am I wrong in labeling them as Atheist?
Galmozzi99 5 months ago
@Galmozzi99 You're not addressing the reason Flew "changed" his mind, do you really believe Flew left it till his 9th decade to do his most uncluttered most focused thinking? the problem is the god squad are so desperate to get a "recognized" professor on their side they'll even exploit the frailties of a sick old man, Just ask your self why not in his 50's. 60's or even 80's ? he was convinced by Michael Behe's work in biology, work that was debunked at the Dover school trial
hughjarrse 5 months ago
@hughjarrse The only issue I have addressed and the one you are now deflecting is your assertion that he died from Alzheimer's. If you want detailed arguments on the functional, specified & complex information contained in DNA that Dr. Flew cites in the video as the reason for his change of position then you will need to read the relevant articles & books. 500 character utube debates won't cut it.
If you only wish to debate Evolution find someone else, my comment was regarding his health.
Galmozzi99 5 months ago
@Galmozzi99 I would love specific and detailed information in DNA (RNA) that attempts to disprove a naturalistic beginning to life, along with the names of the "professors" and the universities where those views are held, you see if there was any truth in it whatsoever don't you think there would be at least one non religious scientist/professor looking for a Nobel prize, conversely there are countless religious scientists not impressed with it
hughjarrse 5 months ago
@Galmozzi99 I realize the 500 character limit is constrictive, maybe just a list of the authors of scientific papers wouldn't be too much trouble
hughjarrse 5 months ago
@hughjarrse I think I have your answer (or lack therof) regarding Flew's death. Good luck in your obsession with these evolution topics you keep bringing up. As I said not my interest find someone else.
Galmozzi99 5 months ago
@Galmozzi99 "If you only wish to debate Evolution" whoa!! hold on I missed that, there is no debate in the scientific world over evolution, if you don't accept evolution as fact you may as well believe the earth is 6,000yrs old, Noah really had an Ark and that Adam & Eve were real people, or that the earth was visited by intergalctic warriors 75 million years ago lead by the war lord Xenu (Xemu) because you're not even observing the world you inhabit, and worse still you ignore those that do!
hughjarrse 5 months ago
@Galmozzi99 IFlew spent 50yrs trying to find out the secrets of the universe and the philosophical state of the human condition and now people want him to be remembered as the professor who in his 9th decade slipped back to the "magic man did" cop out that needs no thought or consideration and in fact answers absolutely nothing, by definition a standpoint from ignorance. I actually volunteer at a Alzheimer's and dementia specific care home, and sometimes it's hard to tell visitors from residents
hughjarrse 5 months ago
Poor atheist, so desperate for place on planet earth -intimated by the staggering place of GOD on planet earth, poor desperate strokers.
megavlad888 6 months ago
@megavlad888 I realise this is slightly off topic, but I have some magic beans for sale if you're interested!
hughjarrse 6 months ago
@hughjarrse Those are magic beans, in the eye's of science.
To this day, science cannot create something like a bean or the plant that it grew from.
Yet, science will make claims that they have figured out the universe, the beginning of the universe, and life began from nothing. lol
So those are some pretty special beans.
What's your price?
AzBirdDog 6 months ago
@AzBirdDog many things in nature elude human science, starfish and salamanders grow lost limbs back, sharks don't get cancer and fruit flies don't age, but that shouldn't stop research into these issues. "To this day, science cannot create something like a bean" a bit unfair after all it took nature 12 billion years, man has improved beans & seeds with genetic modification. science can create quarks & electrons, the building blocks of beans (& everything else) Price for beans? just your reason
hughjarrse 6 months ago
Yes, he's a man who watches, for the first time, for himself, and sees that he's nothing. His disease legitimes his speech. La douleur c'est la plus grand conselheira para les hommes orgulhosos.
Belo Horizonte, Minas, Brasil.
francoalmeidabh77 6 months ago
Why do the christian pick up on this? He says intelligence, not god. And if he did where did he say its the christian god as described in the bible? That god is a genocidal, child murdering, slavery endorsing, misogynistic, inept, moron with no determinable rhyme or reason to its actions. That god could not microwave water let along 'design ' a cell. not surprised these looser took advantage of an old man with Alzheimer's because there has to be an organic brain defect to buy the load they sell.
SpecialEdAllstar 6 months ago
he seems completely relaxed and coherent. There's better footage you could have used to make him look confused.
lookatmepleasesir 7 months ago
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@lookatmepleasesir "he seems completely relaxed and coherent. There's better footage you could have used to make him look confused" this wasn't posted with any "manipulation" intended, it's a mirror of an upload that was posted with the comments disabled, as I'm sure you're aware nearly all creationists disallow comments as a safety measure, they can't have rationality creeping in
hughjarrse 7 months ago
God gets blamed for the failures and sins of mankind. Man is responsible even in our time for destroying, polluting our World. Man is guilty for deaths on earth caused by man made uncurable diseases. Man himself turned his back on God, for whom hee will stand at the end of his time on earth. Men can mock, blaspheme but the day we all will stand before the Word of God we rejected will definitely come. Just a food for your thought, God knows you, thats why u have ur own Name, Fingerprint, DNA
BlackKlitschkofan 8 months ago
@BlackKlitschkofan "Man is guilty for deaths on earth caused by man made uncurable diseases" Malaria and smallpox have killed billions of people over the years, I seem to remember jesus' favorite disease was leprosy, the diseases your god made have killed far more than any "man made" diseases you could mention, in fact even in the bible your god unleashes "plagues" on people, so it's probably a good thing he doesn't exist because a god like the god of the bible would be an uncaring evil monster
hughjarrse 8 months ago
@BlackKlitschkofan
your god sits watching a man rape a baby and does nothing to stop it, and don't give me the "freewill" crap because where's the babies freewill not to be raped? the ridiculous notion of freewill just means the freewill of the strong overpowers the freewill of the weak! your god sits and watched Hitler kill millions of Jews because he can't stop Hitler's freewill, the Jews however have no freewill
hughjarrse 8 months ago
@hughjarrse Let go of your anger! DNA, INFORMATION is what changed flew, Learn Homochirality!!
5tonyvvvv 7 months ago
The Book of Hosea 4:6 my people perish because of lack of knowledge, not because they are only bad or evil, but many will perish because they remained uninformed. The truth is out there for everybody to see. Just like in the days of Noah, men mocked, cursed at the Word of God about the coming flood. The hour came upon all of them like a thief in the night. God doesnt mean any harm to anybody, He loves you, because He made you. Its your decision to choose life or death, thats free will.
BlackKlitschkofan 8 months ago
Im believer who was also an atheist. My Uncle was a Professor and a Doctor of science, one of my biggest mentors. Seen many of his seminars, books and tapes of carl Sagan, Darwin etc God in His grace and mercy saved and called me. I dont see any confused Anthony Flew,he definitely old here,but hasnt lost a bit of his humour. he was never a man who you put words into his mouth.For him to have come this far, he mustve been convinced about what he was going to say.
BlackKlitschkofan 8 months ago
Hhahahah, when I read the info I realized that autor of this video is weak atheist, because he defending his atheistic statement, because ex-atheist philospoher changed his mind. So the weaknes is shown, simply by calling anthony flew with some names of illnes, and showing that it is sad case, and that he became deist or theist because of his illnes. WTF,man you cant kill faith, you cant kill god, we are in god, and god is in us. hello, first you have realize what god is, dont be little child.
MrGlape 8 months ago
Flew was a deep slow and precise thinker the young arrogant bombardment by JarredJammer just revealed nothing more than the Yammer of the post-modernist
twit. I am actually an atheist in the sense that i don't give a stuff about the ins and outs of theology. Flew gave a considered and thought ful and respectful attempt to answer some poorly constucted. I only hope that I retain his cognitive abilities at his age, I am in fact a Geriatrician in charge of ACAT assesments at a major Hospital.
FlgOff044038 8 months ago
@FlgOff044038 "I am in fact a Geriatrician in charge of ACAT assesments at a major Hospital" So the fact he started telling people that Darwin had a deathbed conversion, Darwin's family putting that lie to bed many years ago doesn't seem strange to you? and I have to question your diagnostic abilities seeing as Flew died from complications associated with Alzheimer's a few years after this video! tell me where did all the new "evidence" come from to change Flews mind?
hughjarrse 8 months ago
@FlgOff044038 As has been pointed out elsewhere on this thread, to take Flews about turn seriously you have to accept he left it till his 9th decade to do his most clear uncluttered most focused thinking! while at the height of his intellectual powers he assessed the available evidence and wasn't convinced by the "creator" hypothesis, yet in his 9th decade a few years before he died from Alzheimer's disease it all "suddenly" falls into place, I wonder what William of Ockham's view would be?
hughjarrse 8 months ago
I've come to believe that some ID ppl really, earnestly believe in their scientific validity and actually do not see the obvious conflict of interest with their spiritual beliefs. They are so locked into their framework that they are actually excited to ratify it through "science" and are not capable of seeing beyond the zone they are in. In this sense, it's a bit of "not-guilty by reason of insanity" in that they actually can't see what it is they are really doing.
belodeau 8 months ago
Kent Hovind is another creation scientist. What do you say about him (as if I didn't know).
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "Kent Hovind is another creation scientist. What do you say about him (as if I didn't know)" wow! now you're scraping the barrel, even AIG distance themselves from Hovind, Hovind uses big words to fool the people he lectures to, he uses the conservation of angular momentum to show the big bang never happened, which is very impressive....... to an idiot, you can't proscribe the conservation of angular momentum to energy, energy has no mass, Hovind is a con man (literally)
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
@JoshuaTrio "my child has no choice but to go to school? The child still has the choice to make when the time comes--" your child might surprise you, you child might surprise it's self, but in you world god knows the outcome before the child is born, and so the child has no choice, your child can't surprise god even of the child wants to, the child is powerless to do any other than what your god already knows, your god knew what Hitler was going to do before Hitler was born, Hitler had no choice
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@cooIandcalculated ..ur making a mistake in assuming that because god knows what you will do god has determined what you do this is incorrect, god knows what you will do not because he MAKES you do it but because he does not experience time as we do in 24hr blocks 7 days a week etc...as he is outside of time and space he can see what you will FREELY choose to do and could intervene if he wanted.. this is also called a mircale..hitler made all his evil decisions freely with no influence of god..
tublet13 8 months ago
@tublet13 It's more complicated than that, god knows Hilter is going to kill millions of innocent people and lets him get on with it, if someone told me they were going home to kill their children and I didn't do everything I could to stop them that would make me a monster. If god knows you will die on 23rd of June nothing you can do can change that without proving god wrong, if you jump off the Empire state building on the 19th of June you still can't die till the 23rd without proving god wrong
JoshuaTrio 8 months ago
When you say god will let him get on with it, this is true only because god did not create a world where he intervenes every single time evil will occur, this does NOT MEAN EVIL goes unpunished..the day of judgment is for good reason and god being good and just will ultimately deal with any evil...unless your sins have been forgiven. In response to your god knowing my death, this is illogical if i die on the 19th instead of the 23rd god knew i would die on the 19th he is never wrong.
tublet13 7 months ago
@tublet13 Also will there be freewill in heaven?
JoshuaTrio 8 months ago
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tublet13 8 months ago
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@JoshuaTrio "my child has no choice but to go to school? The child still has the choice to make when the time comes--" your child might surprise you, you child might surprise it's self, but in you world god knows the outcome before the child is born, and so the child has no choice, your child can't surprise god even of the child wants to, the child is powerless to do any other than what your god already knows, your god knew what Hitler was going to do before Hitler was born, Hitler had no choice
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@Believerification Another instance were Hovind shows he "aint that bright" he preaches that there was no rain fall on the earth before the flood and all his brain dead followers just accept it, but just a tiny bit of thought shows that can't possibly be true, because that would mean that water didn't evaporate before the flood, it would mean no trees, grass or bushes could grow above the water table and no clouds
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
As for your spiders---You keep forgetting God is omniscient. This is a plan of faith, evenly balanced so that even evidence like miracles can be doubted if one loves wickedness enough.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "You keep forgetting God is omniscient. This is a plan of faith" so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong, I'm curios, do you think there would be freewill in heaven? it's a very important question if you believe your god to be omnipotent
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
@JoshuaTrio Why in the world do you think that knowing what will happen in the future, say, that my child will grow up and go to school, means that my child has no choice but to go to school? The child still has the choice to make when the time comes---I just know what they're going to choose. Simple. I'm not CAUSING the choice; I'm just know ahead of time. What was the point? Well, read the Bible, it explains the point; we like to call it salvation.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerif "my child has no choice but to go to school? The child still has the choice to make when the time comes--" your child might surprise you, you child might surprise it's self, but in you world god knows the outcome before the child is born, and so the child has no choice, your child can't surprise god even of the child wants to, the child is powerless to do any other than what your god already knows, your god knew what Hitler was going to do before Hitler was born, Hitler had no choice
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@Believerification "You keep forgetting God is omniscient. This is a plan of faith" so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong, I'm curios, do you think there would be freewill in heaven? it's a very important question if you believe your god to be omnipotent
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
@Believerification so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong, I'm curios, do you think there would be freewill in heaven? it's a very important question if you believe your god to be omnipotent
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
@Believerification "You keep forgetting God is omniscient." so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong, I'm curios, do you think there would be freewill in heaven? it's a very important question if you believe your god to be omnipotent
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@Believerification "You keep forgetting God is omniscient." so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong, I'm curios, do you think there would be freewill in heaven?
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@Believerification "You keep forgetting God is omniscient." so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong,
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
"You keep forgetting God is omniscient." so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong,
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
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@Believerification so if that was true what was the point in putting Adam & Eve on the earth? they had no choice but to fulfill the future god had already seen, do have done anything else would make gods omniscience false, they had no choice and no freewill, they can't prove your god wrong, I'm curios, do you think there would be freewill in heaven? it's a very important question if you believe your god to be omnipotent
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
You're missing the point: In Galileo's day the MAJORITY said the sun revolves around the earth---that's you! the majority.Dye no' get it? Will Eh hae tae explain it tae ye?
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "You're missing the point: In Galileo's day the MAJORITY said the sun revolves around the earth" no you're proving mine, we now have empirical evidence that the earth orbits the sun, and anyone who denies the earth orbits the sun would have to ignore that evidence, we have empirical evidence for a multi billion year old universe, and for evolution, to deny either is to ignore that evidence, and the only reason to ignore it comes from a bronze age book by an unknown author
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
Dude, it's EXACTLY like Galileo: the sun revolves around your earth; my earth revolves around The Son. By your logic the majority is always right; you see this, right? I mean, it doesn't escape you, does it?
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "the sun revolves around your earth" maybe where you come from, the earth orbits the sun around here
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
@Believerification
Your convinced evolution isn't true, yet if it's not true your god made snakes, spiders, jellyfish, frogs with toxins designed to kill other living things, pitcher plants and Venus fly traps designed to catch living things, it's a senseless view of the world, why do you have toe nails? and why do your sinuses get blocked?, why are yawns infectious? why do groups of women synchronize menstrual cycles? evolutions answers all these, a designer doesn't appendix anyone?.. sheesh!
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
@Believerification by the way don't be fooled by the spurious tales that the appendix is part of the immune system, it's total creationist crap, the appendix kills an estimated 2.5 million people a year through peritonitis, yet no one who has ever had their appendix removed has shown any immune deficiency, some design that is
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
I think I've shown you those scientists you said don't exist.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "I think I've shown you those scientists you said don't exist" you've shown me one? I can probably find one scientist who will tell you that his car runs on milk, what should trouble you is that there is not a single non religious scientist anywhere in the world that denies evolution or a multi billion year old universe, the Catholic church (the largest christian organization) accepts evolution. I noticed you never explained why god made spiders poisonous
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
@Believerification This is what it boils down to, I can give you 100's of thousands of scientists with PhD's that will tell you evolution is a fact, you can provide a handful that disagree, you choose to believe this tiny minority because it suits you, it's like 50'000 doctors telling you to use rifampicin and clofazimine to treat your leprosy and two fruitcake doctors suggesting snickers and M&M's and you believing them because you like chocolate
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
No, actually I don't have to admit Xenu, because you're forgetting one ginormous thing: there is TONS of evidence for Yahweh: churches, believers, manuscripts, witnesses, miraculous healings in his name, demons cast out in his name, changed lives, etc and nil for Xenu. Yes, for all you know, one can ride a bicycle on the sun. Someone drove a rover on the moon, didn't they? Who would have thought that possible?
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "miraculous healings in his name, demons cast out in his name, changed lives, etc and nil for Xenu" nil for Xenu, maybe Tom Cruise would disagree, but I find it quite uncomfortable having a duologue with someone who believes in demons, not to mention thinks it's possible that someone has ridden a bike on the sun, but when you believe things without evidence you have to accept everything is possible, you have to accept Elvis may be alive somewhere, and that Santa exists
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
The 6000 year timeline is entirely your contribution to the discussion, not mine. And, with Galileo as our example, we all know why many scientists tow the party line regarding evolution: they know the funding will stop and the ridicule will begin. Ever heard of the Institute for Creation Research: Behe, etc.? That's quite a number of Phd's.
Believerification 9 months ago
Now you just said God doesn't exist---so prove it. Scientifically, one should reserve judgment if they don't know something for a fact. Of course, you don't have to prove it, right? You can just say something doesn't exist without any proof it doesn't exist, and that's ok. Try not to respond with what every single atheist says at this point.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "Now you just said God doesn't exist---so prove it. Scientifically, one should reserve judgment if they don't know something for a fact" very poor argument, because to avoid being a hypocrite you have to admit Xenu is as likely to exist as Yahweh, and I'm pretty sure no one has ever ridden a bicycle on the sun, but I can't prove it so now I don't know what to think!
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
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@Believerification "Try not to respond with what every single atheist says at this point" that's very funny considering you just used the pathetic old chestnut "prove god doesn't exist" but of course that's a redundant prerequisite, it's like saying "what is 5x5? and try not to respond with what every mathematician says at this point"
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
@Believerification "Ever heard of the Institute for Creation Research: Behe, etc.?"yes it's a christian lead bible research centre not interested in science, just pushing god,Behe was their chief witness at the Dover school trial and was shown to be a less than reliable witness by the judge, he even believes astrology has it's place in science, he maintains the bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex, it's not you can remove 80% of it's parts and have a bacterial syringe (TTSS)
JoshuaTrio 9 months ago
Re: Scientists: There are no credible scientists who believe in creation---Credible by YOUR standards. Is it so difficult for you to be honest with yourself and admit that the criterion for "credible" is whether or not they agree with you? Do you believe in religious freedom? Why do you worry about what Christians believe?
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "Re: Scientists: There are no credible scientists who believe in creation---Credible by YOUR standards" OK, forget MY standards, just give me some scientists who deny evolution, and believe the universe is 6,000yrs old?
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@Believerification "Why do you worry about what Christians believe?" I don't care what christians believe, I do care when christians try to get religion into science lessons and mislead children, would you be happy for scientologist's to force children to believe the was a war lord called Xenu (Xemu) 75 million years ago that used earth as a dumping ground for his enemies?, of course there isn't any empirical evidence for that, but that's why it's called religion
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
Re: Empirical evidence: That's why it's called religion... Lol. When you're talking about suffering, God is omnipotent and omniscient; when you're talking about doing good, God is neither. Go back to the babies... Are they alive or dead? By your logic: If God knew there would be smallpox on day x, and it would kill a baby---you just said he wouldn't be omnipotent, i.e. couldn't change it---but you blame him just the same. Why don't YOU say what powers God has and we'll work with that.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "you just I don't blame him, how could I blame something that doesn't exist, that would be like blaming Elmer Fudd for a rise in animal cruelty, But it's worth pointing out to someone who believes their god is omniscient that prayer is pointless, as for gods powers, I believe he has exactly the same powers as Harry Potter, what ever the author of the bible decides (who ever that author was)he wouldn't be omnipotent, i.e. couldn't change it---but you blame him just the same"
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
A bunch of scientists were talking to God, they said, "We can make life, no problem, you just take a little dirt..." But God said, "Use your own dirt."
Believerification 9 months ago
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@Believerification And there in lies the problem, were did the building blocks for this god come from? you can't just spout "gods magic" because that tells you nothing, the god squaders would pray to ease demonic possession, scientists developed Tegretol to control epilepsy, clergymen would pray to save children from smallpox, scientists cured it, scientists have saved the lives of far more people than any belief in god, even if he did exist, and if he did exist he would uncaring be a monster
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@cooIandcalculated And therein lies the problem: If the universe created man, who created the universe? Do epileptics cry, "You are the son of God?" Does tranqulizing epileptics "cure" them? You have no idea how many people God has cured. Show me the scientific study, and stop making unscientific claims. If God is to blame for sickness and suffering, then God is also to be praised for the alleviation of these things. You blame God for the bad and praise science for the good.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification We are living now, not in the delicious intoxication induced by the early successes of science, but in a rather grisly morning-after, when it has become apparent that what triumphant science has done hitherto is to improve the means for achieving unimproved or actually deteriorated ends.
Believerification 9 months ago
In this condition of apprehensive sobriety we are able to see that the contents of literature, art, music---even in some measure divinity and school metaphysics---are not sophistry and illusion, but simply those elements of experience which scientists chose to leave out of account
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification t for the good reason that they had no intellectual methods for dealing with them. In the arts, in philosophy, in religion men are trying---doubtless, without complete success---to describe and explain non-measurable, purely qualitative aspects of reality.
Believerification 9 months ago
Scientists have no right to claim that this product of incompetence and specialization is a complete picture of reality. As a matter of historical fact, however, this claim has constantly been made.
They are convinced that the scientific picture of an arbitrary abstraction from reality is a picture of reality as a whole and that therefore the world is without meaning or value.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification .Our conviction that the world is meaningless is due in part to the fact that the philosophy of meaninglessness lends itself very effectively to furthering erotic ends or political passion; in part to a genuine intellectual error---the error of identifying the world of science, a world from which all meaning and value has been deliberately excluded, with ultimate reality.
Believerification 9 months ago
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@Believerification "Does tranqulizing epileptics "cure" them?" "stop making unscientific claims" you use the term "tranqulizing epileptics" and then accuse ME of making unscientific claims! wow.
"If God is to blame for sickness and suffering, then God is also to be praised for the alleviation of these things"
Utter rubbish, if god allows the smallpox virus to exist then he takes the blame for EVERY child and baby that died the horrific death from smallpox before MAN worked out a cure
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@cooIandcalculated Have any kids? When they're learning to walk do you prevent them falling down? So every time someone may get hurt or suffer God should step in and prevent it? What happened to not wanting the father who would never leave you alone, never stop watching over you? So what you want is paradise, while you do evil? Evil to live forever, and yet you want to never suffer. Well, the wages of sin is death.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification God didn't make your smallpox; the FALL from God made the smallpox. Obviously, you haven't killed yourself yet, so the good in this life you keep living for, must outweigh the bad. So, God (in your mind) being responsible for both good and bad, must be pretty good for you to keep living and enjoying life (notwithstanding all the suffering). But we both know, the only time you care about suffering is when you're arguing with Christians;.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "God didn't make your smallpox; the FALL from God made the smallpox" Really so this god of yours is so EVIL he allows a 6 month old baby to die an excruciating death because of the wrong doing of people who lived 1,000's of years before the baby was born? even though the baby cannot have sinned? equating a child falling down and getting a bruise with dying from Rabies, Necrosis or Leprosy, is ridiculous, if you knew of a Dr who could cure these but wouldn't you'd hate him!
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@cooIandcalculated But don't stop there... Since you know God is omniscient,, omnipotent, omnipresent---what are you pretending to get so disturbed over a child's death for? Don't stop there... NO CHILD DIED EVER!! You are the one who is going to die unless you repent. And that is what you're really worried about. Those children have everlasting life! There's no death, no tragedy, no catastrophe WITH GOD!?! Don't stop there since you know so much about God.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification We're talking about the author of life---and you cry about a child's death---You! whose daily SIN makes possible more death. Nothing is lost with God. There is no memory that can't be erased through eternal life. Any bad memory that sticks in the mind prior to ETERNAL life will one day seem like a bruised knee seems to us in remote childhood. God's wisdom destroys your human wisdom. Through God we demolish every argument.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification I'll explain the reason it's impossible to be both omniscient and omnipotent, you believe your god could tell you the day you will die if he wanted to using omniscience, but if he told you the day you will die he then can't use his omnipotence to change that day without being wrong when he told you the day you would die, omniscience make you impotent, because you can never change anything
"God's wisdom destroys your human wisdom" only if he exists, I see no evidence he does
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
Respond to this video...Stephen Hawking: , "Galileo, perhaps more than any other single person, was responsible for the birth of modern science."
Heresy (rebelling against the SCIENCE of his day, kinda like us) or no, he believed in a CREATOR. Not so useless are we? Somehow you believe there are no modern Christian scientists... you are truly brainwashed and blind.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "Somehow you believe there are no modern Christian scientists." What makes you think that? Ken Miller is a very fine scientists and he's catholic, there are no credible scientists that dispute evolution, and no credible scientists who believe the universe is 6,000yrs old, of course there are scientists who believe in god, non accept Adam & Eve, or Noah's Ark
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@Believerification "you are truly brainwashed and blind" I find that extremely funny, you probably think Tom Cruise is a nutter for his religious beliefs, yet his religion (like every other religion) has the same amount of empirical evidence as your religion, .... none
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
.Next.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "But don't stop there... Since you know God is omniscient,, omnipotent, omnipresent"
Woah there, you do realize it's not possible to be omniscient and omnipotent at the same time, even if you are god
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@Believerification "God didn't make your smallpox; the FALL from God made the smallpox" I thought god made everything? are you saying smallpox evolved? why do snakes, frogs spiders all have poisons capable of killing? did they evolve? chameleons have a 2 foot long spring loaded sticky tongue perfect for catching it's prey, why? according to you there was no death in the garden, are you saying chameleons had to sneak up and catch leaves with their tongue, or did the tongue evolve?
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@Believerification "But we both know, the only time you care about suffering is when you're arguing with Christians" I have no particular problem with christians, they are no different to scientologist's or moonies, all believe stuff with absolutely no proof, it's a bit easier to have a dig at christians because they believe in a god that allows Hitler to be born knowing exactly what he is going to do, and because of your gods supposed omniscience, Hitler was powerless to do anything different
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@Believerification Every single pedophile priest child rapist and killer is known about by your god before they set foot on the earth, god knows the victims and the victims families, he knows every single aspect of the pain an suffering caused, he also knows the child rapist is powerless to halt his evil destiny because god has already seem then commit the crimes, and god is never wrong, god is no different to a nasty kid releasing pirnahs into a gold fish pond and watching the carnage
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
There is more in heaven and earth, Horatio, than its dreampt of in your science.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "There is more in heaven and earth, Horatio, than its dreampt of in your science"
"Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain"
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@Believerification "And therein lies the problem: If the universe created man, who created the universe?" exactly the same question as, if god created the universe, who created god, science is trying to work these huge questions out with quantum physics and experiment, the religious don't try to work anything out, they just say "god is magic" and expect people to accept it. Hawking could say "the big bang was magic, so needs no expatiation" but that would be bullshit too
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@cooIandcalculated For some reason you think 'science=atheist"---not so; many of the greatest scientists, i.e. Galileo, Faraday, Newton, Pasteur, believed in a Creator. Science is not the private domain of atheists. The Big Bang: God spoke, and BANG, it happened. If some proposition is a theory, e.g. The Big Bang, one shouldn't ridicule those who believe otherwise; it's not scientific to rule out possibilities before the facts are known.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification "Galileo, Faraday, Newton, Pasteur, believed in a Creator" Galileo was jailed for heresy, Newton was a gay alchemist, there is little point in saying scientists from 100's of years ago believed in god because their's was a viewpoint from ignorance. even me and you have a wider perspective because we had the advantage of Darwin, Einstein, Watson & Crick etc
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
That's one Flew over the cuckoo's nest
Believerification 9 months ago
If he was still affirming atheism you can bet you would think him a wise old genius and hero of your belief, and I mean belief.
Believerification 9 months ago
@Believerification I was just about to type that, but lets just assume i repeated it.
stud3323 9 months ago
its obvious that this video IS edited, you can easily see the pauses added, the video loops. the creator of this video is the one that is exploiting him.
romansten9 9 months ago
To add to insult even the video uploader can't spell his correct name...it's Antony not Anthony...if you can't spell his name you have no right to comment on his life concerning what happened and didn't happen.
Gaga4Parma 9 months ago
@Gaga4Parma " Such is life but flew doesn't deserve to have all his life work tarnished by some idiots" Hold on Flew's entire life's work and legacy has been tarnished by these parasitic opportunists, and Dawkins has pointed out how "sad" Flew's demise is, and in fact Flew started telling people that Darwin had a deathbed conversion and on your second point, the only thing added to the title of this video is "uncensored" the "H" was present in the original censored version, this is a mirror
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@cooIandcalculated: First I don't believe Flew had a mental demise...Nietzsche had a mental demise. You cannot claim Flew had mental health problems as there is little to no evidence of his mental demise. So please don't spreading untruths.
Secondly so what if he believed that Darwin had a death bed conversion? There are plenty of peeople who do believe it even academics circles...especially given what the Darwin family would gain or lose if the Lady Hope story turned out to be true.
Gaga4Parma 9 months ago
@Gaga4ParmaFlew died last year from complications associated with Alzheimer's, if you knew anything about Alzheimer's you would know you don't get it over night, and Secondly he along with everyone else had dismissed Lady Hope's despicable lies about Darwin while he was in control of his faculties, so tell me what new evidence could possibly have come to light to change Flews mind, CCTV footage maybe, The Darwin family have nothing to lose, Chuck D was a genius even if he was confused at death
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@cooIandcalculated: You are missing the point. Change requires intellectual resources you are saying he had a mental demise...if he had a mental demise he would no longer have the resources required to make an intellectual change. It's simple. It's irrational to say he lost his mind but somehow managed to find the resources to do an intellectual 180.
Gaga4Parma 9 months ago
@Gaga4Parma "Change requires intellectual resources you are saying he had a mental demise" wrong you become more open to suggestion, so you think it's a coincidence that Flews "book" was co authored by Varghese, so tell me this if Louis Farrakhan was in his 9th decade and out of nowhere a book came out called "Why Xenu is the truth" that was co-authored by David Miscavige, and to put the tin lid on Louis dies a few years later from Alzheimer's, what credence would it have with NOI nutjobs? none
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@cooIandcalculated: We have to deal with what actually happened not "if". We have to deal with facts and what actually took place.
One of the traits of Alzheimers is the inability to aquire new information. Flew never showed actual signs of not being able to retain nor form new information. This is a fact. It directly contradicts his supposed "demise".
Gaga4Parma 9 months ago
@Gaga4Parma "We have to deal with what actually happened not "if"."Flew in his 9th decade came to believe that the universe was too complicated to have come about by accident, this is an argument from personal incredulity, he had no trouble with this argument while he was at the height of his intellectual powers, no new evidence has come to light in the last 25yrs, the universe has always seemed too complicated to have come about by accident to the casual thinker, tell me what's changed?
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@Gaga4Parma Even more disturbing are the people who demand Flew became a christian! he maintained he didn't believe in an after life or an interventionist god, he was persuaded by arguments in biology, argument put forward by Michael Behe, there are very few biologists swayed by Behe's arguments, in fact two of Behe's main arguments were shown to be false in the Dover ID trail. "We have to deal with facts and what actually took place" a very old man changed his mind before dying from Alzheimer's
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@Gaga4Parma But the real nub of the matter is the grasping from the god squad to get heavyweight thinkers on their side, they have seen rational thought all but end the ridiculous "universe built in 6 days 6,000yrs ago" that lots of people believed up until a few hundred years ago, demonic possession has been replaced by epilepsy, no one really believes in miracles anymore, You don't get Atheists crowing about Mother Theresa being an Atheist, they don't need ex theistic big hitters to add weight
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
Wow...it's so shameful to see atheists have turned on him...
Says alot about the age we're living in...one minute you're loved...the next you're nothing. How sad...
Gaga4Parma 9 months ago
@Gaga4Parma "it's so shameful to see atheists have turned on him."turned on him? no one has turned on him! the poor bloke died from a dreadful illness, an illness we might be a bit closer to understanding if fruitcake religious nutters would keep out of things like stem cell research! the true shame on show here is the parasites reveling in Flews demise to bolster their idiotic childlike beliefs. I'm a little disappointed to see you live in the UK, were you aware of Flew before the vultures came
cooIandcalculated 9 months ago
@cooIandcalculated: tbh this video shows him to be coherant...and yeah atheists have turned their back on him...dawkins certainly has and he speaks for alot of people. Antony was a human just like all of us and we all go through various stage of understanding and understand changes throughout our life time. Such is life but flew doesn't deserve to have all his life work tarnished by some idiots...if you're an atheist; flew signed and delivered most of the groundwork for atheism today.
Gaga4Parma 9 months ago
This is RIGHT IN YOUR FACE, but Athiests are so Consciously Ignorant it's Unbelievable!!
TaeKenDo 10 months ago
@TaeKenDo Do you really not get it? this guy was in his 9th decade, he actually died last year of complications associated with Alzheimer's disease! the reason the god squad is making a big deal over Flew (admit it you'd never heard of him) is because they need a credible advocate, there are no new questions to answer he had no trouble answering these questions when he was at the height of his intellectual powers, he NEVER said he believed in an after life, or an interventionist god
cooIandcalculated 10 months ago
@TaeKenDo "Athiests are so Consciously Ignorant it's Unbelievable!!" and you parasites have to wait for a world famous philosopher and rational thinker to succumb to dementia to try and get them on your side, I have watched religion in action since Flews death, you get dozens of christian articles about "how the worlds most famous atheist became a christian" which is an out and out LIE, but hey whatever it takes to bolster your spurious bullshit!!!
cooIandcalculated 10 months ago
@TaeKenDo This is theology in a nut shell, a plane crashes with 300 people on board, 299 die a horrible painful death and one person survives and "IT'S A MIRACLE, GOD IS SO GRACIOUS, GOD IS SO GREAT" no one gives a shit about the 299 dead and the 1,000's of families devastated, not to mention god could save them all if he wanted too, but what's a few dead babies to god? he let 500 million die of small pox in the last 200yrs 120yrs before a cure was found. If he existed he would be EVIL deified
cooIandcalculated 10 months ago
This video is so manipulative! He does not have the beginnings of dementia at all. Lee Strobel is just asking him some philosophical questions that he has not really pondered before, and is thinking about them as he's being asked about the questions. When atheists make manipulative, and distorted comments about any, and ALL topics having to do with Christianity, scripture, God, etc..... It just makes them seem DESPERATE, and willing to do absolutely anything to turn people away from accepting
TheWayandWordofLife 10 months ago
"He does not have the beginnings of dementia at all. Lee Strobel is just asking him some philosophical questions that he has not really pondered before"
He died from Alzheimer's last year, Strobel is asking him some questions he hadn't pondered before!! so what new questions has Strobel come up with that his predecessors didn't know about? there are no new questions, they're always the same questions rehashed basically "it's too complicated to have no designer" but god needs no designer... why?
cooIandcalculated 10 months ago
His voice is shakey and his replies are a little slow...but entirely coherent.
stu1002 11 months ago
This video just proves to me how petty you atheist really are. Why don't you go and try to refute his arguments rather than going on about how he has alzheimers. Really bad taste old chaps
thebeerbaron666 11 months ago
@thebeerbaron666 For fucks sake matey, all Flews "reasons" are and have been refuted, most of the by Flew himself before he fell ill, the guy changes his mind about his entire life's work a few years before he dies of Alzheimer's disease and you see no correlation?
"Really bad taste old chaps" what is bad taste is the parasites who plunder a sick man because they have no credible spokesmen of their own
cooIandcalculated 11 months ago
He is speaking very clearly and decisively. If in fact he had alzheimer's when this video was made, it obviously wasn't affecting his faculties of communication. And if you, JarredJammer, actually think alzheimer's influenced him into changing his entire educated worldview so drastically and specifically, you don't know much about the man or alzheimer's.
redrumer13 11 months ago 6
@redrer13 You seem to be wrong on both fundamental points you raise, I, unlike the parasites who have claimed Flew recently, have been aware of Flew and his work for decades, I met him briefly in the 80's after a lecture, and this video is a disturbingly pale shadow of his former self (thats why I posted the video) and as for knowing little of Alzheimer's disease! I unfortunately know far more about it than I would ever have wished to. this is grasping at straws for credulity for the incredulous
TheJarredJammer 11 months ago
@TheJarredJammer Of course he's a pale shadow of the man you met in the 80's, he's almost 30 years older and in his eighties, what do you expect? You should be so lucky, to be able to articulate your thoughts and ideas as well as he does at that age. Your attempt to discredit his realization of the truth is pitiful.
dandan1769 10 months ago
@projectlevydelta Do you have any proof of this? The Geometric Dating and fossils that you mention, along with other scientific dating measures are actually quite accurate (given the periods of time we are dealing with) yet you have absolutely NOTHING to proof the Biblical claims other than "its written in the Bible". That my friend is circular reasoning.
jkane1977 11 months ago