Rock n' Roll, 1940's - Big Joe Turner - Ooo Ouch Stop

[59cadcoupe]

Love Big Joe ,,,,

[metafis]

Certainly, Big Joe played Jump blues, but definatly you can hear the way it influenced rock and roll.

[rockabillygone]

Big Joe was the real deal

[mrgoodvibrations]

BIG JOE and his band were the stuff!!! Rock and Rolling in the 40's!

[PaulHucklebuckWms]

The name of the sax player who has the solo in the Paul Williams Band is Eddie Silver.

[BigJH37]

This is actually a clip of Joe doing "Shake Rattle & Roll" with an audio overdub.

[Whoami691]

Big joe turner, up there with the best of em, Buddy holly, Bill Hailey, Evlis and so many more

[Freedom0467]

@Whoami691 BIg Joe was first , before Holly,Hailey and Elvis..

[docbohsse]

Absolut wonderful, the father of rockn roll! I just love it

[shazzaman1]

its the bees knees

[louiebaur]

Classic!

[PaulHucklebuckWms]

The band is rockin'.

[awfulguitarplucker]

when i heard the phrase "the railroad track" i shat CHUCK BERRY'S bricks...10 yeasr before him!

[shazzaman1]

hairy krisha

[TruthSurge]

LIP SYNC! (jeez, just kidding hahahhaah) man, so many singers used that exact same 12 bar blues progression. Compare the music of this to whole lotta shakin goin on. not saying Jerry Lee stole anything but it's basically the exact same chords/structure/melody. Johnny B. Goode. Long Tall Sally. All the exact same chords.

[yahoochiewatchie]

@TruthSurge What's wrong with that? The blues had a baby and they called it rock n roll - now you know why.

[TruthSurge]

@yahoochiewatchie the concepts of copyright and plagiarism are hotly debated by millions of people and so it's just a thought concerning how much borrowing is too much.

[weswade]

Alan Freed's Moondog Coronation Ball has often been cited as the very first Rock and Roll concert.

[oramikleepunk]

@weswade I agree.Those early Rock Concerts were wild.Alot of the Rock on Alen freeds radio shows sounded like jump blues,and boogie woogie.

[d820m]

@ Kirke182 Paul's Orchestra was the opening act and backing band for Alan Freed's Moondog Coronation Ball on March 21, 1952, and after the first song was finished, fire marshals shut the whole thing down for fear of a riot....

[FresnoDick]

Gotta love Big Joe. In the 50s I worked in a restaurant in a small down, and everyday a certain classmate would come in and play Joe's Corrine Corrina b/w Boogie Woogie Country Girl on the juke box- both songs well worth seeking out. We couldn't hear this stuff on the radio in Central Calif in those days.

[Tosswallyproductions]

Family Guy, Stand by me parody. Little Richard Reference. Look it Up :)

[RockinRedRover]

That said, Bill Haley does deserve a lot of credit for recognising the White kids in the USA were "secretly" enjoying music their older peers thought was the Devil's "race" music for the Blacks only. Sad times !. Bill cleaned up the lyrics and lightened the style into a Western Swing style to make it more enjoyable for the White masses and acceptable (almost) to their parents etc. Then the White business people got on board what they saw as a rocknrolling gravytrain to Cashville NY.

[LedWilde]

Bill Haley usually gets credit only because his was the first Rock N Roll song to become popular. But no, they definitely didn't invent it! That's for sure.

[oramikleepunk]

Big Joe Turner is one of the fathers of Rock n roll.I enjoyed the song he played on that Alen freed Rock n roll movie within the 50's.

[superjtrdr]

If Elvis was singing this song more people would think of it as rock. It sounds like white 50s rock to me with maybe a hint of jazz.

[RockinRedRover]

@superjtrdr FWIW it was called Rhythm & Blues,performed & mainly enjoyed by the blacks in the USA in the 1940-50s. They had a different musical heritage (jazz, blues) so different tastes & styles than the separate Whites (racial segration was very prevalent then) whose "popular" music were more swingdanceband or countrywestern dependant on their locality across the USA. There were different pop charts too, sometimes the RnB was called "Race" music without a thought of political incorrectness !

[RockinRedRover]

@superjtrdr Elvis like many socalled white "rockabillies" came from the Southern states (Tennessee, Louisiana etc) where the blacks were perhaps more intrinsically mixed with the whites on a day to day level since the plantation days, hence young White kids like Elvis, Carl Perkins etc etc grewup with some exposure to the black culture & RnB music. As that was largely a louder/wilder/sexier music than the C&W etc their parents probably preferred, its no surprise they went down the Devil's path.

[buddyeagle]

BIG JOE ALWAYS ROCK ME! THE KING FOR SURE! THE PIONEER OF ROCK N ROLL.

[Morahman7vnNo2]

Isn't this just Boogie Woogie?

[rambam1204]

I think this song sounds more jazz than rock.

[georgef551]

It makes you think....

I forget what name the industry called the pre-50's "Rock" music, but they never lumped it with Rock. When I've seen another 40's song similar to this, I thought Rock HAS to have been around in the late 40's.

[ATITANIC1992]

Omfg this is awesome !

[Kirke182]

That's also Paul Huckabuck Williams band backing Joe. He too had a very early rocknroll hit "The Hucklebuck" from '49 but he too is left off most early rocknroll compilations. Had so many white artists not covered Joe's material, he too would not be considered rocknroll today and it's not usually his versions you hear on modern rocknroll compilations.

[sha1om]

@Kirke182 I don't think the video belongs to this song. Possibly that's who's in the picture, but the record had different personnel.

The info I have on this recording is as follows: JOE TURNER : vocal with Lorenzo Flennoy-p / Leonard "Lucky" Enois-g / Winston Williams-b / Los Angeles, Jan. ??, 1949 Ooo-Ouch-Stop /Excelsior OR-534-A

@georgef551: I think the term you're looking for is "Jump Blues".

[RockinRedRover]

@sha1om Correct, the video is actually of Joe singing "Shake Rattle and Roll" , if you search that on Youtube theres actually a better quality video clip. As a white youth in 70s I got hooked onto what is now a lifestyle, call it Rock n Roll or whatever, after attending 1940s style big band swing dances with my parents then buying a BIll Haley LP in Woolies for its cover pic. Still love Bill but of course also all the rest including the original black artists.But for me Bill was the catalyst.

[RockinRedRover]

@RockinRedRover As a lifelong fan of Rockin Music from the 50s and also (of course 40s and early 60s), I get fed up with people wanting to categorise everyting into swing, boogie, rockabilly, hillbilly etc etc. In fact in the 80s English Teds would fight the Rockabillies because of this, thankfully nowadays we've got older & wiser and just all get along fine, all loving this great music throughout its many variations yet all of course having our own particular favourite "styles", ENJOY !!

[d820m]

@sha1om the Flennoy Trio is correct

[Kirke182]

Alan Freed used the term "rock and roll" to disguise the fact that it was black R&B being peddled to a young white audience. On his original Moondog program, the bands were black R&B artists. His theme song was Todd Rhodes "Blues for the Red Boy" from 1949 which few people today would categorize as rocknroll. We think of 50s rocknroll differently today because we are only allowed to hear a very limited set of material. Roy Brown, Al Hibbler, Wynonie Harris etc are left out.

[closedcircle1]

Has anyone got Sally Zuzazz from 1945 by Joe Turner. Similar to this and outstanding.

[panmandee]

@closedcircle1 Yes, I have it on a 4 record album (didn't know the album rocked so well or else I would have bought it 40 years ago). After I heard that song, I now know exactly where Bill Haley got his game from.

[closedcircle1]

@panmandee I think I know know the 4 part album you have. A friend had it and we used to listen to it together in 1980 when I was 18.

[cleanmrbroadway]

i think you guys are lookin for " ROLL WITH ME HENRY " ...... etta james

[Telamon8]

in the 40's this was rock and roll

[jbrent1953]

This is jump blues - 12 bar. Yes there's a boogie component to it. But when you distill it, it's a 12 bar blues shuffle. That stuff originated in the 1930's in the south. You can go as far back as you want to Bessie Smith, Robert Johnson and the like and hear the roots of rock and roll. There was no first rock 'n' roll song. There were tons of blues songs which inspired the rockers. In fact That's Alright Mama was a song by bluesman Arthur Big Boy Crudup.

[oramikleepunk]

Your right...I listen to blues,jump blues,and boogie woogie...there was nothing new about Rock n roll.Only the white singers added C&W in the late mid 50's to it.

[195477]

What is R&R?

It's NOT blues,jump,swing or jive alone so how can this be R&R.

R&R is a mixture of R&B gospel and country..this isn't.

[oramikleepunk]

It's pre Rock n roll,and joe turner even played one of the 50's rock n rolls movies by Alen freed.You need to learn the different kinds of R&B.Jump-blues.woogie-woogie,a­nd others.

[195477]

By defenition it's NOT R&R.

You said in a previous comment "There's nothing new about Rock and Roll only white singers adding C&W,therefor it was new as nobody had done this before.

You can't have pure Rock and roll without Blues gospel and country.

[oramikleepunk]

GO LOOK UP JOE TURNER BY DEFENITION AND SEE WHAT YOU FIND.R&R.Everything you say is an oxymoron.lol

[195477]

I do NOT find R&R.

If it was then you would not have such things as R&B,Gospel or C&W etc as it would by your definition all be classed as one.....R&R is a combination of styles..this isn't.

[oramikleepunk]

What is wrong with you?I told you r&r was a hybrid,a combination of styles.When you look up joe tuner read the whole info and side info.

[195477]

Show me the gospel part of this song

Show me the C&W part.

This is NOT R&R

[moominpic]

That's a narrow definition. I find it hard to find Gospel in a lot of early Rock'nRoll records, Likewise, how much Country does Little Richard or Chuck berry use in their stuff? Songs had been using the term "rock and roll" since the 1940's.

[oramikleepunk]

I agree with you moominpic.If the label Rock n roll were never created he would just be a jump-blues,and boogie woogie singer.Likewise for Chuck Berry.

[moominpic]

I have an interview with some of Gene Vincent's Blue Caps (from 1980's). One of them says 'We NEVER called it Rock'nRoll, we never called it Rockabilly, it was Rhythym and Blues, that was all we ever called it." Even Alan Freed, in one of the films, calls it Rhthym and Blues. Fats Domino said he didn't care what you called it, he called it 'music with a beat'.

[195477]

@moominpic

Bill Haley started as a country singer as did Buddy Holly and Johnny Cash had a major influence and Elvis did country as well.The term Rock and Roll has been used pre 50s I agree but not the music,it was only a  sexual term.

As for gospel many artrists started singing in church in the 30s and 40s,Jerry Lee Lewis,Elvis, Johnny Cash James Brown,Little Richard.Elvis said he listened to lots of gospel quartets in his 72 Madison square gardens interview.He won 3 grammys all for gospel.

[moominpic]

I'll agree that the early singers were into gospel. Obviously Elvis was quite into it and JLL was always torn between that and R'nR. But how does country influence Little Richard and Chuck Berry? The term was not only a sexual one, it was previously used for Gospel churches, where worshippers rocked and rolled. It was also a term for dancing. Don't get too hung up on the name. Country wasn't called Country for a long time and Rockabilly was originally an insult.

[warrenart]

Nope, this is boogie woogie. 8 to a bar. Not quite rock.

[oramikleepunk]

Boogie woogie is rock n roll.

[Telamon8]

this is rock from then they had good music and this proves that rock isn't just drums and electrical guitars.

[kainthevampireduck]

wow, this song is 100% rock, and long predates the "official" date some people use as "the birth of rock" (that being 1954 when elvis recorded "that's all right mama").

I used to think that obiously that information pushed by media, is wrong since bill halley, little richard and possibly chuck berry too,

were doing rock before elvis, but this is even earlier and is without any doubt, this is a rock song. now I'm more than 100% sure that rock was not born as "late" as 1954.

[oramikleepunk]

Yeah, Elvis only created Rockabilly.

[moominpic]

@oramikleepunk

Arrgh! I don't believe you mean that seriously! try reading Nick Tosches' 'Unsung Heroes of Rock'nRoll' and you'll see just how much Rpockabilly/Rock'n'Roll was around before Elvis.

[oramikleepunk]

I have read that book,and alot of R&B and C&W singers were playing the roots of Rock n roll before the 50's...it's a hybrid music...nothing was new about it.

[moominpic]

I guess you were joking about Elvis inventing Rockabilly.

[195477]

@moominpic

Blues influenced Little Richard and Chuck Berry,Country Blues and gospel for the others,Elvis Johnny Cash JLL etc...,when fused together it became Rock and Roll {The music not the term}.

A lot of people thought Elvis hip swinging was because of the pastors in church but I have Elvis on CD saying how a lot of people said it was but it wasn't,he clearly says its not to do with what went on in church-the movements.

[moominpic]

Obviously it wasn't, if you think of the moral outrage the hip swinging provoked, but there were other (Black) performers doing it before Elvis, anyway. The phrase 'rocking and rolling' was used in spirituals way earlier. But you're getting ung up on a name. Many artists never called their music Rock'n'Roll until it became a popular phrase, and then used the name cos it sold. .

[moominpic]

Example. The term country wasn't useduntil the 1940's. Before that, it was Hillbilly. So does that mean that the singers changed their style overnight or just that the name changed. I mean, try Youtube Moon Mullican Cherokee Blues and tell me what that is. Look at the term R'n'B... tell me Pussycat Dolls are the same as Roy Brown.

[moominpic]

To take it further, can you explain how on earth The Platters (one of the greatest groups to ever bless vinyl) were ever considered Rock'nRoll? I mean, come on, they were doing stuff that groups like the Ink Spots had done years before.

The great think about the term Rock'n'Roll is that it can encompass just about anything (even Perry Como!).

[PoireauMan68]

the music bizz always keen to wrap up anythying and everything is the answer yer looking for...French Rck Bizz quickly caught up with big US Music Bizz...only on the margin you would find true musicz...all the rest gradually sanitized. CRUDUP and TURNER influenced white artists who sold to the masses. Unhip and unconcievable that true BLACK artists could sell to white audience in racist 50s US. Term specialists spent hrs debating what's what and forgot to enjoy themselves

[moominpic]

@PoireauMan68 I agree entirely. This was my point, that R'n'R is really a term, not a music.

[195477]

@moominpic Rock around the clock is regarded by many as Rockabilly,that's what I mean by a gray area.I do agree that what ever you call it it's all good stuff.Thanks.

[moominpic]

@195477 Really? I hadn't heard that before! That's crazy, man, crazy!!!!

[panmandee]

@oramikleepunk Actually it might have been Bill Haley originally because he was doing it back in 1951, before elvis was even around. But Elvis did develop it more to make it a legacy.

[kainthevampireduck]

the beatles were not just "pop", don't confuse the terms "pop" and "rock", the beatles did both, but they started being a 100% classic 50s rock group in 1958/59,but when they became famous in 1962 after recording their first single,they kinda softened,at least for a couple of studio albums and for tv shows,but they kept rocking harder live on theaters and stadiums,and in 1966 they became harder in studio too.

[kevadekene]

lol i thought pop started 1950s with the beatles

[moominpic]

Bill Haley referred to his music as 'pop music' in a 1955 interview.

[195477]

@moominpic

What I can't make out is you say in 1 comment the early stars Elvis JLL were into it but then you say you cannot hear it in early R&R, it's there big time.

Rolling Stone magazine recently made Elvis's That's alright the 1st official R&R record,although to be fair even as a 30yr+ Presley fan it is a gray subject.

I say pre 50 no R&R mid 50s fully established,it's the inbetween thats gray.

[moominpic]

I did say I couldn't hear gospel in "a lot of' early RnR". But you've been pushing the blues-gospel-country mix and I've been saying many of the early stars had little or no country influence. Sorry, but to say "That's All Right" was first is dubious and sounds like Elvis worship. Haley's Rock around the Clock was recorded before that. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think we can bOTH agree, however, that it's great music, whatever we decide to call it.