Richter plays Bach: WTC1 No. 18 in g sharp minor BWV 863

[jampishon]

Why did you play the last accord moll, in the notes last accord is dur!

[mtv565]

Prelude is played too fast but still nice. Quaver = 100 to 110 would be fine.

[hhhnightmare]

why is there a B-sharp written at the final bar, when it´s crearly a B natural that´s played??

[contingocoins]

@hhhnightmare the predictability of the Tierce de Picardies can become wearisome (to modern ears) after a certain number of minor key movements...

[rsdmse]

I thought all the pieces in WTC 1 ended in major...

[1980NewWave]

Like Bach (and I've played this particular prelude & fugue, one of my favourites) but could never stand how he finishes most of his minor-key pieces in the tonic major. Sometimes when I play them I just end in the proper minor key anyway, the score be damned - hey, artistic licence :)

[3NUNS]

almost a study in leading notes

[morvensky]

One of my favorites from the WTC. Thank you!

[squash012]

I like to play the minor WTC pieces in particular, and most of them end major. This one does seem a bit different, though.

[pianojeans]

I just love ALL of these - Please try and complete the whole set VERY SOON - And thanks for all the very hard work you have put in to make these truly magical pieces become even more entertaining.

[blacktiger444]

What debate?? Ending a minor piece in the major is by way of a Phyrgian Third (as here) is so common in Bach and appears very often in his WTC in particular. I don't understand why there is confusion here at all.

[BillyReuben28]

You are 100% right. Except that I think you meant Picardy third.

[Jozzilee]

I think this debate about whether the ending should be b sharp or not can be solved by observing Bach's original hand- written score if poosible. Any editions (even urtext)can misguide or mislead us to a misinterpretation. But if people nowadays do not prefer tierce di picardie, then they can feel free interpret it differently. After all music is about development and creation based upon precessors.

[wcbroccoli]

If only it were that easy. Which original? Bach made corrections, revisions, improvements. . As was typical of 18th c. keyboard music, WTC was circulated in hand copies so that even before his death, many of his keyboard words were known in England, France, Italy and Austria. That's why there are several readings.

In 1 source, the fugue's final chord has z B-natural. In another source, the natural is indistinct. In another source, it's a B-sharp.

[wcbroccoli]

Music printing was very expensive in early 18th c. Germany. As a result, music was often circulated only via hand made copies. Even though WTC was known in England, France, Austria, Germany and Italy before Bach's death in 1750, it wasn't published in print until 1801. Johann Forkel, Bach's 1st biographer, criticized the editor of the publication for failing to procure several manuscripts and compare them. This is problem often faced by editors of early music.

[Jozzilee]

I personally would prefer the b sharp because I think it is something special you get o find in Baroque music written in minor keys. Remember at the time minor ending was considered weak and the Tierce di picardie was what people prefered then (spritually even).

[3NUNS]

Good observation.

[wcbroccoli]

This is a test.

[3NUNS]

The analyst should know why a piece should end on the majeur and on the other hand why it should not !

[Lenale85]

i totally agree.... you cant just have a guess. but you say, avoid ending in major..?

[Lenale85]

Does anyone know why richter ends this fugue in g-sharp minor?? in the originial edition is a b-sharp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­! please..

[crazyunicorn20]

No it's is not nesessarily a b-sharp..."The Fischhof, Altnikol, Kirnberger, and both Schwencke manuscripts have a sharp before that last b, as do the Henkle and Wiener "Urtexts". The Anna Magdalema Bach manuscript has a natural sign. In the Autograph the sign seems to be a sharp but is rather illegible. All other sources consulted leave the b unsharped, as do the Czerny, Tovet, and Kroll editions. the Kreuz, Bischoff, Hughes, and Bach-Gesellschaft editions have b-natural". W.A.Palmer

[wcbroccoli]

It end with b-sharp as appears in Altnickol. Altnickol was Bach's son-in-law. Bach entrusted him with preparation of copies, correcting errors and even adding ornaments.

Bach made corrections and revisions to many of his works, including WTC.

[3NUNS]

A statue of Bach on top of my music case thankyou Herr Altnickol.

[wcbroccoli]

The likes of Czerny and other 19th c. editors are hardly authoritative. Forkel rightly criticized the editor of the 1801 publication of WTC for failing to compare the various manuscripts.

The Bach-Gesellschaft hasn't issued a supplement since the early 1900s ! Their last editor died in the 1920s! As a result of new findings, further research and analysis, and better understanding of early 18th c. sources, many errors have been found in the old Bach-Gesellschaft editions.

[crazyunicorn20]

So the b-sharp, one could say is rather optional.

[Lenale85]

So the Autograph says b with a natural sign. but there has to be a reason, why bach wanted this only fugue ending in minor.... (thank u very much for your help)

[crazyunicorn20]

Who knows, maybe Bach had a reason why he wanted it to sound like that. I guess we'll never find out. Glad i could help.

[wcbroccoli]

Maybe he simply forgot the sharp sign.

[wcbroccoli]

According to the Bach-Gesellschaft supplement, the natural sign in the primary source is "somewhat illegible."

But in the key of g# minor, B is already natural. So if a B-natural was intended, why write a natural sign? The "somewhat illegible" sign must be a sharp, not a natural.

Like much German keyboard music of the early 18th c., WTC was circulated only in hand copies, not in print. And Bach made several corrections and revisions over the years

[TheGloryofMusic]

@wcbroccoli

Major thirds and minor thirds are both imperfect consonances, but minor thirds in the context of a tonic chord are "more imperfect" because the minor triad is not easily derived from the overtone series. Thus the picardy third. The B# is undoubtedly correct considering the stylistic norms of the times.

[wcbroccoli]

Over the years Bach many many corrections and revisions to the his original WTC.

And those who actually studied with Bach, rather than Czerny, show a B-sharp in their hand copies.

How did they get the idea that it's a B sharp?

[3NUNS]

@wcbroccoli : but das Czerny edition was rarly that of Beethohen twas it not ?

[wcbroccoli]

The die hard romantics and their misguided students would insist the note is a B-natural.

But listen to the HIP WTC on harpsichord in YouTube. They play B sharp.

[3NUNS]

To avoid ending in it in the major!

[tothemax91]

Okay, can someone please tell me why Bach has written his 8th prelude and fugue in D♯ minor, (this applies to this aswell). As if he was modulate to the D♯ major (quite possible, I am unsure wether he does or not) which contains five sharps and two double sharps, I can then envisage the use for a triple sharp as an accidental which is to say uncommon :), for example used in leading note, as well as ridiculously hard to read. So why such a key?!

tom

[Pianoplayer002]

I am not sure I understand what you are talking about, but as far as I know the reason for the d# minor fugue to be written in d sharp minor and not e flat minor is that he first wrote the fugue in d minor and didn't want to rewrite all the notes, so he simply put some sharps at the approperiate places, and voilá, fugue in d sharp minor ;)

[wcbroccoli]

In writing WTC 1 Bach was giving the 1st ever practical demonstation of the flexibility Werckmeister's "well-tempered" tuning system (not to be confused with equal temperament) for playing in remote keys.

Bach deliberately paired the eb minor prelude & d# minor fugue as an enharmonic demonstration within the minor mode.

He paired the Ab major and g# minor preludes and fugues as an enharmonic demonstration contrasting major and minor modes.

It had nothing to do with convenience.

[pierrot79]

@Pianoplayer002 For Bach and his contemporaries, tonalities have a meaning of their own, due to the temperament (enlarged or shortened fifths in particular). A fugue in D minor couldn't be transposed in d sharp minor without losing the intent. The fact is very few people in history can pretend mastering music as Bach ... thus it not surprising we cannot see why he would use D sharp instead of e flat.

[MusicPredominates]

@pierrot79 : Bach was a composer of fundamental proportions. When one studies Chopin one detects a foundational aspect from Bach.

[ChronicMetamorphosis]

@tothemax91 There are times in the study of music, where I just have to accept things as how they are instead of questioning them. Sheet music is really just a map written in another language. I read it, I move to the next interval and I play it.

[amyparking]

incredible

[helian7]

@Chocodiot: Because it's supposed to be there...playing the last chord in minor was obviously Richter's personal decision - and it certainly makes sense!

[musikfann]

just realising how much beethoven was influenced by this stuff..

[Chocodiot]

Why is there a picardie at the end of the score?

[suzettegm]

Richter at his most listenable would be him playing Prokofiev for me. That said...Richters way of asking himself all these questions about how things should sound, absolutely fits Bachs WTC.

[smithsherman]

Richter must have been listening to Gustav Leonhardt in the years leading up to this.Because it has that Leonhardtian half baroque-half modern reflective quality to it.

Within the context of a modernistic fugue interpretation,he gives a certain pregnant dynamicism to it which I find appealing.

For me,this is Richter at his absolutely most listenable.