Any academic intellectual leaves doors open to new solutions that may be necessary in times of extreme situations that have not yet surfaced.
Commanders must stay flexible. And they must leave those solutions hanging in the air for a certain caliber of criminal that may not be dissuaded any other way than to be frightened out of their terror.
The only example ever given for the just use of torture is the whole 'but what if there was a bomb, and they know where it is' blah blah - that has NEVER happened! Its just doen't work like that. Its an unjust reason for a horrific action. Didn't we overturn Sadaam for torturing his people?
How can we ever claim to know whats best, and hold our heads high when we're guilty of the same attrocities?
"Values are fungible"? This moron clearly has no idea at all what "fungible" means. I don't mind people using big words, but this clown should get himself a dictionary so that at least he doesn't use them totally stupidly.
times of war or crisis should test your faith in your values.. if your values desert you in the worst events of your life then you never had values to begin with
Torture tactics are proven to be non-effective. I cannot believe people who say otherwise. Suspects under torture do not produce truthful results. I think they use psycological tactics now. I they they use "kindness" and they pick the weak ones to get answers.
LOLz... this is the guy that the libs mocked and made fun of and now you are supporting him?? hahaha.... what a wish wash.. you don't know what side to be on do you?
@tecnolover2642 he isnt on any side, in case you have noticed neither "side" is actually working for you, they republicans work for the corporations and the democrats work for the banks.
How come when political and military leaders want to "Forget about the Past and Look to the future" it's always stuff which puts them in serious hot water?
Can we look to the future and stop these wars of vengeance to what was done with us the past? No? I guess Justice only cuts one way?
@zZG3n0ciDeZz You really don't know what you are talking about. You should study Article 1, Protocol 1 which defines armed conflict against colonial dominance or foreign occupation as an international conflict. Therefore the Geneva Conventions can be applied.
Also note that Common Article 3 also lays out that armed conflicts between national governments and rebel forces is subject to limited provisions contained within Article 3 and also within Protocol 2.
I'm impressed by Petraeus's morals, honest & adherence to American law & the Geneva Conventions... but truthfully, unless the perpetrators of these crimes - the very top people who ok'd it - the heads of the Bush regime - unless these people are held accountable, then the rest of us in the world are going to have no faith in the ability of the US to keep from torturing again... what happens when the next chief general gets in? Bush & friends *must* be brought to justice, America!
That was a great, that man understands what's been fundamentally eroded since 9/11. I'm from the UK and I just watched O'Reilly saying that we used torture and wanted to use deadly gas against the German people, that's a lie, Churchill detested torture and gas, preferring "de-cult" Nazi prisoners and getting far more intell' in the process. Churchill created 3 temporary public terror laws during the war, Blair created 10's of permanent ones and allowed torture, we live in dishonourable times.
@boozenfags Dishonorable times? Since when was war honorable? Nothing about war has changed. Bottom line war is evil! People die and suffer during times of war, which includes torture of many degrees. When the truth about war comes out it is easy to be appauled, but also Americans should not bitch and contradict themselves when they voted for the guy who started it all.
Generally agree with you folks. Right on TYT! You got it mostly right. I've worked alongside US Army interrogators, and they don't usually torture. Unprofessional, against the law, counterproductive. "The vast majority" according to Petraeus, do not require torture. Keep up the good work TYT. Petraeus is not a "political general"; he's a general who follows orders to the best of his ability without being accused of insubordination from commander in chief. Petraeus is a good man.
I cannot stand to watch another one of your videos. Please send me a message if you need help interpreting Glenn's videos, let me know. Based off of your videos you have no idea what anyone is saying. So I'm just trying to help you. :)
Ok Fox news, values can be moved around huh, so if a guy looses his job and has to feed his family ASAP and has no other choice than to rob a bank, than I guess all is good right? please... his ass is going to jail and you idiots are going to be covering the story asking " what happened to our values".
You know what saves lives? Getting troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan. If we were so intent upon saving the lives of Americans we wouldn't be sending them into these fucking wars with such inadequate equipment and all.
It's not a fucking question about whether it works or not. I'm sure it could work. As could the unwarranted searches of the homes of ex-cons for no reason. The question is whether it's morally right or not.
Problem is torture does not work outside a Hollywood plot. You NEVER have a terrorist 20mins and ticking before the bomb goes off and are forced to torture the codes from him... Its pure fiction.
It has sadly been drilled into conservative nuts through TV.
When you torture someone you get garbage information. There never is a way to verify anything they say any time soon (unless your Jack Bower)
In Nigeria 1000'sppl/month confess to being witches after. guess what...? torture.
The funny thing is that Kiefer Sutherland doesn't believe in torture either, and the only reason 24 characters even do it is purely for dramatic effect. Nothing more, nothing less.
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I don't know why everyone cares about if these terrorists get tortured or not. Somebody will cut an Amercian citizen off of on the highway at high speeds nearly killing them but they will say "Oh my God don't torture the poor terrorists."
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I have an idea when they close gitmo they should send all of those people to your community since you love them so much. Maybe you could make bombs together, wouldn't that be so much fun. Retard.
My fiance was "detained" for 13 hours at JFK airport for having a can of compressed air for cleaning computer vents/electronics in his luggage (not carry on). He had just purchased it at Best Buy that same day. He had to go to court, pay a hefty fine, do 100 hours of community service and have his passport frozen for 6 months (unable to travel). The judge didn't even ask him or his lawyer anything or let them speak. This seems very over the top to me, but then again I am not American.
@deathswangkiller24 That is a good point. You shouldn't use statistic if you don't have anything to back it up. But the bottom line is that most Muslims aren't terrorists, just like how most Christians aren't pedophiles. The moral of the story is: stereotyping is wrong.
@BrandonSchleifer well thats one moral but the other one is... dont bury your head in the sand because islamic jihadist's are most likely gonna be muslim and middle eastern... just saying i mean use intelligence to figure it out and if u have sufficient evidence that he might be a terrorist then get them. i dont mind if ppl waterboard proven terrorists that have time sensitive info. just saying i would rather be alive than be dead because some terrorist doesnt like water
@deathswangkiller24 I'm not arguing that you shouldn't prosecute terrorists. I personally oppose torture, and believe that, at most, sodium pentathol should be used, but that wasn't my argument. My argument is that not all Muslims are terrorists, and due to the modern philosophy of "innocent until proven guilty," combined with the International Declaration of Human Right, you cannot say that anyone is anything based on race, creed, or religion [or sexual orientation].
@BrandonSchleifer theres a different between water boarding and torture.. waterboarding is nothing to lets say alligator clips to ur genitals.. which communists countrys such as china and russia have used before.. but remember i said if u have sufficient evidence to prove hes a terrorist and if he has time sensitive information. i think americas national security should come before some geneva convention that is preventing our troops from effectively winning this war.
@deathswangkiller24 What's preventing America from wining the war is anti-Americanism. Torture is something that makes people hate America [in this scenario]. Believe it or not, America is winning the war in Afghanistan, but their main tactic is to "win hearts and minds." So in the short term, torture may seem useful, but in the long term, it makes potential terrorist recruits hate America, and the "coalition of the willing" less willing.
@BrandonSchleifer i agree that part of what is preventing america from winning the war is anti-americanism. but also what started this war in teh first place is islamic jihad. they still believe the crusades are still going on so they view western europe and america as crusaders (because we are mainly christian) and also as the devils that somehow are responsible for all that is wrong.. i dont mean torture as long term policy but in the need of "Time" sensitive information i feel its worth it.
@deathswangkiller24 The real question is: Where do you draw the line? I oppose torture and capital punishment, but others would disagree with me for perfectly good reasons.
Furthermore, it is my opinion that torture is ineffective. If someone tells you the truth under torture, and you don't believe them, you'll keep torturing them until they tell you what you want to hear. Wouldn't it be easier just to claim that the terrorists said what you want them to say?
@BrandonSchleifer well i mean u dont just torture them until they say something... its not pulling finger nails out more like waterboarding or scaring them... besides couldnt u have lie detectors or experts of some sort who can decipher if they are telling the truth... i mean u can beat lie detectors but only if ur well trained and know what your doing... so thats what i mean i am not about to say lets just put a pair of alligator clips to his balls and electrecute him or something for fun
@deathswangkiller24 You can use lie detectors without torture. Hook them up, and interrogate them with yes or no questions. If the lie detector detects a change in bio-patterns, you're on to something. It's not perfect, but it's no worse then how a lie detector normally works.
I'm not saying water-boarding is as bad as other forms of torture, but it's still torture.
@BrandonSchleifer yeah but again people can beat lie detectors.. thats what im saying . besides we dont torture cuz we like to do it.. people would torture such as waterboarding for results or info.. so i mean its basically either them or us... either you fight the war full on or you dont and you lose... look at the news lately see all those atttempted terrorist attacks... i mean we are lucky for they werent successful. next time we might not be so lucky... we need to take the fight to them.
@deathswangkiller24 You make some points that sound reasonable, and I would agree that waterboarding is not torture if you agreed to try it out. Jesse Ventura underwent waterboarding as part of his NS training and he emphatically describes waterboarding as torture. How can western countries say they are right when we employ the techniques we decry in our enemies? Let us be the people we say we are!
@elhayya your a fucking retard he is not a racist your just stupid and my guess is that you are black and no i am not a racist so either so dont message me saying i am
thats not the point. do you want america to be known as the country that doesnt keep a moral standard? if you do thats great, then ill call america a shitstain on this planet and thad make it true.
He's saying that waterboarding DOESN'T work. He's saying the stuff others INSIST is torture, the deprivation, sleep positions, etc - DOES work. It's odd, though, that he says waterboarding DOESN'T work, but that in an emergency (like you always see depicted in fiction on 24), it might be allowed. Police have such discretion in exclusionary cases. But if it doesn't . . work, at all? Why? Is he admitting it DOES work? but that he doesn't want our enemies making 'fun of' us, or . . ?
The general says take the rear-view mirrors off but he's wrong- you've got to keep the mirrors so you can see which of the passengers need to be tortured into turning their treasonous buddies in over the levying of war on the Pentagon and World Trade Center. Start torturing the treasoners today and if bureaucratic reg.s allow torture them to death so as not to weigh down an already over-encumbered judiciary- it won't stop the cars in Times Square but when they are good and dead they'll be gone.
To suggest that we have to adjust our values to a situation is wrong we should use our values as a guide to dealing with a situation. Of course this is the kind of thinking that led to the meltdown fraud. When people are above the law they can justify anything.
I'ma go commit some crime and say hey man, quit thinking about the past and look to the future ok, jeez, my gosh. This is why we never learn from the past
Let me get this straight.....General Petraeus, a brilliant, experienced warrior, says that "Enhanced Interrogation" DOESN'T work and is AGAINST American policies........and Foxx News still thinks it's peachy!
The crux of the problem that the Germans faced in Russia is is epitomized in an entry from General Franz Halder, Chief of the German General Staff, in mid-August of 1941: "We underestimated Russia: we reckoned with 200 divisions, but now we have already identified 360."
Still WolverineDeus,(i like ur name!) if it were not for that harsh winter and the late march of the Germans, they would have taken Lenningrad even with 2 fronts going full out. In the end the Germans were arrogant and stupid. Long protracted wars hurt. That's also why we have to get out of Iraq and settle the Afghan situation in short order, or it will cost us our economy as it almost has already.
The General serves his commander - all good soldiers do. Who told Bush to change tactics and dared Bush that a different plan would work, after 4 years of losing in Iraq? Gen. David Petraeus! The tortures being argued occurred before Gen Petraeus took command. The scholar soldier knows where of he speaks - I wish more people would listen to him.
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This dick nose makes the same deceitful laugh every time he lies to himself on video. Typical liberal. Take everything out of context and then admit you would rather make sure a terrorist is comfortable than to save the lives of the innocent.
Same old Bull shit. It broke no rule of he GC. Ad second if any of you people knew your entire family would be murdered if you didnt get the information out of a Terrorist you know exactly what you would do.
Does anyone notice this guy is still active duty? Anyone putting two and two together here? You ever notice that the active duty military leadership always agrees with the current administration. It's his duty and believe me these guys take that seriously. When he is wearing that uniform on TV he is at work doing his duty, which is whatever his COMMANDER and chief tells him it is. Also, yes I was saying the same thing when Bush was in office.
OMG! Values are fungeable?! I don't know what word he used but he's just another rationalizer for American cowardice. We are not at war! Wars are against governments. Wars are declared by authorized representatives of a government. This is no more a war than the war on drugs, or the war on poverty, or the war on illiteracy. It's a rhetorical war ONLY! Besides, suspension of rights was only intended to be used in wars in which we're in very serious danger of being overwhelmed by our enemy.
And in this "war" Dubya did all he could so the enemy could overwhelm us. "They hate us for our freedom", didn't he say that? And immediately tried to make us have nothing worth hating for.
Good comments - we must live our values in good times and bad. We shouldn't shrug off our countries values or the Geneva Convention because it is inconvenient. Water boarding is torture.
I suggest that everyone that supports torture listen to the Ted Koppel's opinion (search: Torture: Where Do We Go Next?), and read about the UN Convention Against Torture.
morality is a matter of oppinion. Everyone has there own. Just because we do not tourtue prisoners dosent mean our guys wont be. I personally dont agree with that policy cruelty dosent get you information. It gets you what you want to hear
Keeping moral values in times of strife show if you are a moral person, and breaking them proves you are just as cruel as the terrorist as you claim to be superior too.
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i bet if this hosts wife or kids or somthin was kidnapped and he knew someone who knew where they were but they wouldnt tell him, he would change his mind really quickly about torture.
oh my lawd - how can these armchair warriors have ANYTHING to say in regards to what Gen Pat says? NEVER have I seen guys in ties and gals n pencil skirts so willing to make jackasses of themselves.
so there. Now STFU about crap you know nothing about. If Patreaus isn't "been there done that" then WHO IS? Experience wipes it's ass with opinion now lets decide what we are going to do if anything ABOUT it.
George Washington. You've probably never heard of him. The problem with conservatives- and it's the reason the rich have such a hard time entering the Kingdom of Heaven- is that they lack empathy. They can't see things from anybody else's point of view. They see everything in terms of what's in it for me. The universe revolves around me, me, me. Nobody else matters. What's good for me is good. What's bad for me is bad. It's simple that way, and conservatives are simple if they're anything.
Well most people forget, most revered military men oppose waterboarding and torture. General Petraeus, General Powell, Chuck Hagel, General Jim Jones all oppose it. Wy? Because it does not work. It was used to get false confessions. It is a liability if anything
Hmm, Gen Petraeus knows who butters his bread. You didn't hear a single peep outa him about being against torture when Bush was President. But as soon as Obama takes over he's on the news saying he's against torture. Sounds like a brown-noser and a yes-man to me. Obama otta replace him as soon as possible for someone with integrity.
And last, but not least, as I retire for the night, what is the solution. I would love to hear what those who vehemently oppose me have to say about how we handle the small factions of those who want Americans dead? Do we do nothing? Do we continue to kiss up and hope they'll become our friends? (Even though ideology says that's impossible) Post some suggestions! If you have an opinion, I'm sure you have an answer.
You want a solution? For starters bring the troops home from the 700 bases around the world. Stop trying to be an empire and rule the world for US corporations. Be the real City on the Hill. The good guys. The new world. The hope of the world, not the scourge. Sleep tight. Grow up. Study hard. Think.
Good thought keepaopenmind. Except with that theory, Europe, the Middle East, and Russia would most likely be speaking German right now if we had those policies 60 years ago. You think by simply ignoring a bully will make them go away. I regretful disagree with you on that point.
I sleep better knowing that we are the beacon of goodness on this planet, I am grown up (thank you for your concern), I have a degree in Poli Sci, and thinking goes without saying in this case.
We did have those policies 70 years ago. It's only been since WWII that we've had a large standing military. Also, give credit where it's due. Russia defeated Germany, not the US. You have no idea what I think, so stick to facts. If you think the US is the beacon of goodness on this planet, yoy've got a lot to learn.
And the only reason the Russians could defeat the Germans was a.) the cold weather and b.) the pressure the US was putting on them on the other fronts. Sticking to the facts isn't your strong suit, so be careful how you point your finger.
Beacon of goodness? I haven't given much thought to that. I suppose Denmark, or Iceland, maybe New Zealand might qualify. Certainly not the US. The US is the land of opportunity and offers relative freedom. But goodness? Get real. Nothing destroys a people's freedom quicker than a standing army in peacetime. Who said that, political science major?
George Washington. You've probably never heard of him. The problem with conservatives- and it's the reason the rich have such a hard time entering the Kingdom of Heaven- is that they lack empathy. They can't see things from anybody else's point of view. They see everything in terms of what's in it for me. The universe revolves around me, me, me. Nobody else matters. What's good for me is good. What's bad for me is bad. It's simple that way, and conservatives are simple if they're anything.
The reason that the Russians defeated the Germans was because the Germans vastly underestimated the strength and the resources of the USSR. The German invasion of Russian failed in the winter of 1941, BEFORE the US entered the War. After the failure to take Moscow and Leningrad in Novemeber-December of 1941, Germany's eventual defeat was virtually a foregone conclusion; the entry of the US into the war only hastened the inevitable.
I agree, Napoleon Lost to Russia for the very same reason: Underestimating the might of the other side as well as not knowing the territory! Both the Germans & the French got humiliated when they launched their assault on the Russian! Only the Afghans were able to bring down the mighty Russian Communist empire!! Imagine that a rag tag group of militants defeated the second most heavily armed powerful nation on Earth and ushered the end of the EAST & WEST Berlin division and the end of USSR !!!!!
I might beg to differ with you on the March to Lenningrad. Arrogance stopped the Germans by way of the harsh winter. The Germans had 1 million men in that campaign and killed 4 million russians on the march. They were actually 25 miles from there before the stoppage. We had no real idea if we were going to be successful in 41', and Germany at that time was the most powwrful nation on earth then. Germany fucked up when they went to a 2 front war. The Kaiser made the same mistake, Arrogance.
Read a book called BRUTE FORCE, by John Ellis. Once the initial German surge was stopped short of Moscow and Leningrad, Germany had practically no hope of winning on the Eastern Front. The Russians successfully evacuated most of their industry and factories from the territories occupied by the Germans in 1941 across the Urals. Germany lacked the industrial capacity and the strategic raw materials to fight a long war, and lacked the mechanized forces needed to fight successfully in Russia.
You have to ask yourself this question, what front was this particular march and engagement on? Was there another front that the Germans were fighting on simultaneously? Once you see that the Germans had stretched their resources on 2 fronts, the exact same mistake that Kiaser Wilhelm made in the first war, and was told to Hitler not to do.....then that's exactly what he did, and it cost him the war and his nation and in the end his life!
There was one front in Western Europe, facing England, a second front in the Mediterranean and North Africa, and a third front in Russia. Hitler violated every rule of grand strategy imaginable. His initial run of victories was due to the technical and tactical superiority of the panzer forces which constituted just a slender fragment of Germany's armed forces. The more successful he was, however, the more overextended he became.
That's right, he got way overextended and that was because of ARROGANCE! He crushed most of Western Europe in a matter of weeks, he had some Brilliant Generals running his campaigns in North Africa and in the east. He was too successful. That causes arrogance, I feel we have been guilty of the same in the middleeast. Torture and some of the other things would have gotten you in front of a firing squad in WWII.
Here's a suggestion...let's get out of the middle east, and pull our bases out of there which is offensive to the Islamic religion according to the 911 report. And according to the 911 report, that is what caused us to get attacked on 911.
It's a suggestion. I would prefer to not be there. (Surprise eh?) We'll see what Obama does, I don't believe he's going to stop pursuing bin Laden. Whether it's Iraq, Pakistan, or Afghanistan, he will keep troops there. A little surprising considering he ran on a campaign promis of being out of the middle east by 2012. If he actually knew what he was talking about, he may not have made that promise he had no intention on keeping.
I would hardly call legal due process "kissing up" - if we love America we must defend the IDEA of america - anyone who has ever said "with liberty and JUSTICE for all" needs to understand that legal due process isn't a nicety that we can arbitrarily abandon - otherwise we look like lying hypocrites - and we abandon a tenet that makes this country truly great. Torture will not defend America - it may destroy it.
So you're saying that our legal due process which is our standard should be used on peoples from other countries? That hardly sounds fair either. Once again we stamp OUR way of life and OUR measure of fairness on people that don't like or respect us and certainly don't treat the law the way we do.
As for foreign policy, I wish we could have peace with all foreign nations. But you have North Korea testing nuclear weapons and Iran right behind them. This is where the country is split. I say take action, others say its not our concern. When it becomes "our concern", it will be too late. And those taking the isolationist approach will be on another apology tour. This time it will be to the loss of life on American soil.
As I've said before, corruption on both sides of the aisle tend to murk up the waters when it comes to making policy and talking about beliefs or agendas. But removing all corruption, I would take a Conservative approach 100% of the time over a "Spread the Wealth" around approach. When you spread wealth, you destroy it. Why not just create more?
Look guys torturing is evil, but it works. Just do an experiment. Take one ticklish person and give them a date and location of an "attack". Tell them not to tell under any circumstances or else, etc. Then proceed to tickle them untill they scream uncle and the information will be revealed. The same concept works with a strong willed believer in a cause and torture. Eventually they all scream uncle without any mean to. Just asking them wont do shit. Every country tortures in secret. Cause it wor
It "works" to elicit confessions and false informations mostly. It also means those on whom it is used will die fighting rather than be captured. It also means our guys will be tortured eventually. Torture is wrong, and it is dumb. How do you know every country tortures in secret? You don't know..
If you recognize that torturing is evil, then don't do it. Even if it worked like you seem to think it does, don't do it; it's evil. That's the bottom line. You better hope there's no Heaven or hell.
The real travesty here are the assumptions keepaopenmind. The fact that all Repulicans and / or Conservatives are labeled as Nazi's and people assume that we're pro-torture is absurd. We'll see if the Obama apolgy tour works in the Middle East.
I'll just go on the record now as saying his policies, economic and foreign, will not work.
I'm just not sure I understand why liberals are so against free markets, wealth, and prosperity.
Lol "values are fudge-able. Look at Lincoln and haebus corpus..." I guess some Faux News idiots need to be reminded that we're not in the midst of a civil war with half the nation broken off, before they use fail examples.
Also, "torture stops our enemies" is simply bullshit. Nobody is going to be willing to submit to American rule, or become prisoners, if they know "I'm going to die in the hands of Americans from torture." It's what happens when you act hypocritically to your values.
True conservatives oppose the occupation and looting of Iraq. A lot of nitwits call themselves conservatives these days because they think conservatives are a majority. Bush changed all that, as we'll see as time goes on. Nothing increases federal, and presidential power, more than war. That's why true conservatives oppose the Iraq "war."
Funny I never seen one of them vote against it or even speak out! Please the only thing the conservatives know how to do is obstruct and divert and vlame everyone else for the things they do themselves. Such as Rush Limbaugh calling Sotomayor a racist even as he has told one of his listeners"to take the bone out of her nose". Also he said all drug addicts should be shot while he was doctor shopping himself! To me this is the perfect example of the hypocrisy of the conservatives!
Check out Joseph Sobran. He was a conservative when that was a bad name, as it will be again. Buckley, an old hawk, finally came to realize "it's not working." Pat Buchanen was against it. Haven't paid any attention to him lately. The Conservative Party in 2004 was against the war. In fact, in 2004, only the Rep and Dem parties supported it. If you look, you will find the old style conservatives opposed this evil aggression. I'd consider Ron Paul pretty conservative.
CNN wouldn't know the truth if it bit them on the butt. I'm sorry if I'm crumbling your perfect little world. Cheney didn't say they said anything specific, so stop being an idiot.
If they showed failure, Obama would have released them with bells on. You think I'm the parrot here, but the only parrot is the one that you're looking at in the mirror. Your logic sucks man.
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Never close doors. That makes you an extremist.
Any academic intellectual leaves doors open to new solutions that may be necessary in times of extreme situations that have not yet surfaced.
Commanders must stay flexible. And they must leave those solutions hanging in the air for a certain caliber of criminal that may not be dissuaded any other way than to be frightened out of their terror.
eastariel 1 week ago
You can torture someone into saying ANYTHING. Including that Torture can get people to admit lies hahahahaha
leegeorgeson 4 months ago
The only example ever given for the just use of torture is the whole 'but what if there was a bomb, and they know where it is' blah blah - that has NEVER happened! Its just doen't work like that. Its an unjust reason for a horrific action. Didn't we overturn Sadaam for torturing his people?
How can we ever claim to know whats best, and hold our heads high when we're guilty of the same attrocities?
CJSpencer77 6 months ago
1000 points of light.
bunkmasterflex 8 months ago
"Values are fungible"? This moron clearly has no idea at all what "fungible" means. I don't mind people using big words, but this clown should get himself a dictionary so that at least he doesn't use them totally stupidly.
AttyCPA1 9 months ago
times of war or crisis should test your faith in your values.. if your values desert you in the worst events of your life then you never had values to begin with
BeingNobody1956 9 months ago
Yawn. Hippies.
BackdoorPlumber 11 months ago
"We need to move our values around a little bit"
Fuckin' hypocrites. That's their only platform, that they represent traditional values, and now they're all "Ohhhh well these values are flexible."
Bunch of fucking douchebags that need to get eat shit and die.
JunkCCCP 11 months ago
I like yor videos, but man you gotta work on your vocabulary and speaking skills.
elestes09 1 year ago
Torture tactics are proven to be non-effective. I cannot believe people who say otherwise. Suspects under torture do not produce truthful results. I think they use psycological tactics now. I they they use "kindness" and they pick the weak ones to get answers.
killkill120 1 year ago
LOLz... this is the guy that the libs mocked and made fun of and now you are supporting him?? hahaha.... what a wish wash.. you don't know what side to be on do you?
tecnolover2642 1 year ago
@tecnolover2642 he isnt on any side, in case you have noticed neither "side" is actually working for you, they republicans work for the corporations and the democrats work for the banks.
metallicafannick 10 months ago
are these not the absolute morality people are now saying they are subjective
nailo1 1 year ago
I hate TYT, these people are so stupid, they are on the wrong side of every issue.
Emrys93 1 year ago
How come when political and military leaders want to "Forget about the Past and Look to the future" it's always stuff which puts them in serious hot water?
Can we look to the future and stop these wars of vengeance to what was done with us the past? No? I guess Justice only cuts one way?
banonKING 1 year ago
Why is your video quality often so poor ?
RockTheOcean4me 1 year ago
Fox still lacking in pragmatism or morals as their usual modus operandi
thewalrusiam1 1 year ago
What is the point of having values if you don't adhere to them when they are showcased in front of the world.
Who8MyCookies 1 year ago
okay the geneva convention thing is dumb thats for when COUNTRIES fight each other the TALIBAN is NOT a COUNTRY
zZG3n0ciDeZz 1 year ago
@zZG3n0ciDeZz Wow that comment is a special brand of stupid...
SIXITHS 1 year ago
@SIXITHS which comment
zZG3n0ciDeZz 1 year ago
@zZG3n0ciDeZz You really don't know what you are talking about. You should study Article 1, Protocol 1 which defines armed conflict against colonial dominance or foreign occupation as an international conflict. Therefore the Geneva Conventions can be applied.
Also note that Common Article 3 also lays out that armed conflicts between national governments and rebel forces is subject to limited provisions contained within Article 3 and also within Protocol 2.
Both of these conditions can be applied
SIXITHS 1 year ago 2
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zZG3n0ciDeZz 1 year ago
I'm impressed by Petraeus's morals, honest & adherence to American law & the Geneva Conventions... but truthfully, unless the perpetrators of these crimes - the very top people who ok'd it - the heads of the Bush regime - unless these people are held accountable, then the rest of us in the world are going to have no faith in the ability of the US to keep from torturing again... what happens when the next chief general gets in? Bush & friends *must* be brought to justice, America!
StevenBee2 1 year ago
That was a great, that man understands what's been fundamentally eroded since 9/11. I'm from the UK and I just watched O'Reilly saying that we used torture and wanted to use deadly gas against the German people, that's a lie, Churchill detested torture and gas, preferring "de-cult" Nazi prisoners and getting far more intell' in the process. Churchill created 3 temporary public terror laws during the war, Blair created 10's of permanent ones and allowed torture, we live in dishonourable times.
boozenfags 1 year ago
@boozenfags Dishonorable times? Since when was war honorable? Nothing about war has changed. Bottom line war is evil! People die and suffer during times of war, which includes torture of many degrees. When the truth about war comes out it is easy to be appauled, but also Americans should not bitch and contradict themselves when they voted for the guy who started it all.
MattyTheMole 1 year ago
durka durka sherpa sherpa
randomangryfan 1 year ago
@randomangryfan durka durka sherpa sherpa.mohamed jihad
dongerado 1 year ago
yup, torture is wrong
it's pretty easy to see
just have yourself or your family tortured for a little while if you disagree..
11thFrog 1 year ago
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11thFrog 1 year ago
Generally agree with you folks. Right on TYT! You got it mostly right. I've worked alongside US Army interrogators, and they don't usually torture. Unprofessional, against the law, counterproductive. "The vast majority" according to Petraeus, do not require torture. Keep up the good work TYT. Petraeus is not a "political general"; he's a general who follows orders to the best of his ability without being accused of insubordination from commander in chief. Petraeus is a good man.
briannewberry 1 year ago
"Sometimes, [values] need to be moved around a little bit." -never.
sabrina0327 1 year ago
I cannot stand to watch another one of your videos. Please send me a message if you need help interpreting Glenn's videos, let me know. Based off of your videos you have no idea what anyone is saying. So I'm just trying to help you. :)
bizzolman10 1 year ago
A lot of Americans seem to think they have a world experience just because they watch TV.
Gargantua606 1 year ago
I like how he said "in reality" it doesn't work. He might as well have called her a moron and said that this was a war, not an episode of 24.
FuckItSnoopy 1 year ago
David Petraeus is an expert whos opinion should be respected.
JDLindskog 1 year ago
Under No circumstances should our values be compromised. Cowardly men's values get compromised in a time of panic.
snowbaordguru 1 year ago
does this dumb ass think she can argue Gen. Petraeus? He didn't get there by being an idiot
iago201 1 year ago
BOW YOUR HEAD!!!!!
John3285 1 year ago
To beat your enemy you don't sink to their level. You stand above them. Then crush them.
luanluan2006 1 year ago 10
No rpublicans democrats and coservatives are the same bit wen ot comes to libereals ut a difference
wetbak987174 1 year ago
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Liberals aren't any different than conservatives. Both insult and lie their way to get elected.
if you want an honest candidate, support Peter Schiff for senate in Connecticut.
SENTRY000 2 years ago
I'm surprised that interview even got any airtime.
drldrl81 2 years ago
Have Hannity submitted himself to an hour of waterboarding for charity yet?
bohemianwriter1 2 years ago 6
Ok Fox news, values can be moved around huh, so if a guy looses his job and has to feed his family ASAP and has no other choice than to rob a bank, than I guess all is good right? please... his ass is going to jail and you idiots are going to be covering the story asking " what happened to our values".
TheDalinkwent 2 years ago 6
Let me just say, BOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!
Manbeast222 2 years ago
You know what saves lives? Getting troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan. If we were so intent upon saving the lives of Americans we wouldn't be sending them into these fucking wars with such inadequate equipment and all.
It's not a fucking question about whether it works or not. I'm sure it could work. As could the unwarranted searches of the homes of ex-cons for no reason. The question is whether it's morally right or not.
seniorxduck 2 years ago 20
whats the rotor's lifespan in aviaton on sand conditions... didnt think about that for example :D
Darusdei 2 years ago
Could not have said it any better.
IMFagentSamFisher 1 year ago
@seniorxduck We are out of Iraq and out of Afghanistan in 2013.
syzygy502 6 months ago
Problem is torture does not work outside a Hollywood plot. You NEVER have a terrorist 20mins and ticking before the bomb goes off and are forced to torture the codes from him... Its pure fiction.
It has sadly been drilled into conservative nuts through TV.
When you torture someone you get garbage information. There never is a way to verify anything they say any time soon (unless your Jack Bower)
In Nigeria 1000'sppl/month confess to being witches after. guess what...? torture.
CmdrTobs 2 years ago 7
The funny thing is that Kiefer Sutherland doesn't believe in torture either, and the only reason 24 characters even do it is purely for dramatic effect. Nothing more, nothing less.
IMFagentSamFisher 1 year ago
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the thing about torture: It works!
Mrkika1 2 years ago
HAH
BanglishBoy 2 years ago
As long as America claims to be of "high" moral value etc. They cannot torture. If they do, they are hypocrites. End of story
pooyan6969 2 years ago 2
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I don't know why everyone cares about if these terrorists get tortured or not. Somebody will cut an Amercian citizen off of on the highway at high speeds nearly killing them but they will say "Oh my God don't torture the poor terrorists."
Chevyguy2003 2 years ago
U fucking idiot 98% of the ppl in custody are not terrorists, just regular average ppl.
terrorist is a word that racists like you like to use in place for "Muslim" and "coloured ppl"
elhayya 2 years ago 77
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I have an idea when they close gitmo they should send all of those people to your community since you love them so much. Maybe you could make bombs together, wouldn't that be so much fun. Retard.
Chevyguy2003 2 years ago
@elhayya
My fiance was "detained" for 13 hours at JFK airport for having a can of compressed air for cleaning computer vents/electronics in his luggage (not carry on). He had just purchased it at Best Buy that same day. He had to go to court, pay a hefty fine, do 100 hours of community service and have his passport frozen for 6 months (unable to travel). The judge didn't even ask him or his lawyer anything or let them speak. This seems very over the top to me, but then again I am not American.
INatalkaI 1 year ago
@elhayya do u have a study to prove that? or do u just hear that from msnbc?
deathswangkiller24 1 year ago
@deathswangkiller24 That is a good point. You shouldn't use statistic if you don't have anything to back it up. But the bottom line is that most Muslims aren't terrorists, just like how most Christians aren't pedophiles. The moral of the story is: stereotyping is wrong.
BrandonSchleifer 1 year ago
@BrandonSchleifer well thats one moral but the other one is... dont bury your head in the sand because islamic jihadist's are most likely gonna be muslim and middle eastern... just saying i mean use intelligence to figure it out and if u have sufficient evidence that he might be a terrorist then get them. i dont mind if ppl waterboard proven terrorists that have time sensitive info. just saying i would rather be alive than be dead because some terrorist doesnt like water
deathswangkiller24 1 year ago
@deathswangkiller24 I'm not arguing that you shouldn't prosecute terrorists. I personally oppose torture, and believe that, at most, sodium pentathol should be used, but that wasn't my argument. My argument is that not all Muslims are terrorists, and due to the modern philosophy of "innocent until proven guilty," combined with the International Declaration of Human Right, you cannot say that anyone is anything based on race, creed, or religion [or sexual orientation].
BrandonSchleifer 1 year ago
@BrandonSchleifer theres a different between water boarding and torture.. waterboarding is nothing to lets say alligator clips to ur genitals.. which communists countrys such as china and russia have used before.. but remember i said if u have sufficient evidence to prove hes a terrorist and if he has time sensitive information. i think americas national security should come before some geneva convention that is preventing our troops from effectively winning this war.
deathswangkiller24 1 year ago
@deathswangkiller24 What's preventing America from wining the war is anti-Americanism. Torture is something that makes people hate America [in this scenario]. Believe it or not, America is winning the war in Afghanistan, but their main tactic is to "win hearts and minds." So in the short term, torture may seem useful, but in the long term, it makes potential terrorist recruits hate America, and the "coalition of the willing" less willing.
BrandonSchleifer 1 year ago
@BrandonSchleifer i agree that part of what is preventing america from winning the war is anti-americanism. but also what started this war in teh first place is islamic jihad. they still believe the crusades are still going on so they view western europe and america as crusaders (because we are mainly christian) and also as the devils that somehow are responsible for all that is wrong.. i dont mean torture as long term policy but in the need of "Time" sensitive information i feel its worth it.
deathswangkiller24 1 year ago
@deathswangkiller24 The real question is: Where do you draw the line? I oppose torture and capital punishment, but others would disagree with me for perfectly good reasons.
Furthermore, it is my opinion that torture is ineffective. If someone tells you the truth under torture, and you don't believe them, you'll keep torturing them until they tell you what you want to hear. Wouldn't it be easier just to claim that the terrorists said what you want them to say?
BrandonSchleifer 1 year ago
@BrandonSchleifer well i mean u dont just torture them until they say something... its not pulling finger nails out more like waterboarding or scaring them... besides couldnt u have lie detectors or experts of some sort who can decipher if they are telling the truth... i mean u can beat lie detectors but only if ur well trained and know what your doing... so thats what i mean i am not about to say lets just put a pair of alligator clips to his balls and electrecute him or something for fun
deathswangkiller24 1 year ago
@deathswangkiller24 You can use lie detectors without torture. Hook them up, and interrogate them with yes or no questions. If the lie detector detects a change in bio-patterns, you're on to something. It's not perfect, but it's no worse then how a lie detector normally works.
I'm not saying water-boarding is as bad as other forms of torture, but it's still torture.
BrandonSchleifer 1 year ago
@BrandonSchleifer yeah but again people can beat lie detectors.. thats what im saying . besides we dont torture cuz we like to do it.. people would torture such as waterboarding for results or info.. so i mean its basically either them or us... either you fight the war full on or you dont and you lose... look at the news lately see all those atttempted terrorist attacks... i mean we are lucky for they werent successful. next time we might not be so lucky... we need to take the fight to them.
deathswangkiller24 1 year ago
@deathswangkiller24 You make some points that sound reasonable, and I would agree that waterboarding is not torture if you agreed to try it out. Jesse Ventura underwent waterboarding as part of his NS training and he emphatically describes waterboarding as torture. How can western countries say they are right when we employ the techniques we decry in our enemies? Let us be the people we say we are!
AkrayBothorda 1 year ago
@elhayya 98% are not terrorist? What do you "believe" a terrorist is you stupid fuck? Where did you get that information from?
Rammagith 9 months ago
@elhayya your a fucking retard he is not a racist your just stupid and my guess is that you are black and no i am not a racist so either so dont message me saying i am
airforce52sc 8 months ago
@elhayya 98 percent of people in custody are not normal people.
AlextheTitan 8 months ago
@elhayya dont forget white people who speak with Russian/Ukrainian accents
CorrerPorVida 7 months ago
Chevyguy is obviously not the brightest crayon in the box. Not much of an American, either.
waydownNMway 2 years ago
Because torture is illegal, morally wrong, and yields poor, unreliable information.
BrianTotse 2 years ago 2
There not all terrorists - just like not every American is a cunt like you Chevyguy2003.
inktankPS3 2 years ago 2
Chevyguy, I agree with you completely. Not sure why so many negative ratings. I think your main point is the hypocrisy of people.
firewallx 2 years ago
"Not sure why so many negative ratings."
Its not really surprising why you dont understand why he got so many neg ratings when you agree with a fucktard like him.
BanglishBoy 2 years ago
thats not the point. do you want america to be known as the country that doesnt keep a moral standard? if you do thats great, then ill call america a shitstain on this planet and thad make it true.
BanglishBoy 2 years ago 4
Cenk is smart. He really gets it in those last 20 seconds.
nojyt 2 years ago 7
YES!!! YES!!!
itachifanboy1023 2 years ago 2
"who wants some stinking values?" great!
Shahidnabibullah 2 years ago 5
The ... "flexible values" of the american conservatives! So from now on every yo-yo should have the Fox News logo on "honoris causa"! GO CENK, GO!
SpiritoGreco1 2 years ago 4
Wasn't the interviewer Dick Cheney's daughter??
marine1109 2 years ago
They re is a republican propaganda fox news and they called themselves jouranlists!
thib565 2 years ago
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thinazzabird 2 years ago
yes, we should protect out values...but for American citizens...and it is true that Abraham Lincoln suspend habeas corpus during the Civil War...
ajk718 2 years ago
i thought a lot of those prisoners were american citizens. Am i wrong?, I'm curious but Ill check it out too.
Coolflames101 2 years ago
i love when they say "this is veeeery interesting." also, i love the loss of values the fox anchor seems to think we need
cpt2115 2 years ago
Hey conservatives don't follow values they just hate hate hate. They're crazy like Liberals, but dumb.
Duobitdezo 2 years ago 4
He's saying that waterboarding DOESN'T work. He's saying the stuff others INSIST is torture, the deprivation, sleep positions, etc - DOES work. It's odd, though, that he says waterboarding DOESN'T work, but that in an emergency (like you always see depicted in fiction on 24), it might be allowed. Police have such discretion in exclusionary cases. But if it doesn't . . work, at all? Why? Is he admitting it DOES work? but that he doesn't want our enemies making 'fun of' us, or . . ?
web77s 2 years ago
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thinazzabird 2 years ago
The general says take the rear-view mirrors off but he's wrong- you've got to keep the mirrors so you can see which of the passengers need to be tortured into turning their treasonous buddies in over the levying of war on the Pentagon and World Trade Center. Start torturing the treasoners today and if bureaucratic reg.s allow torture them to death so as not to weigh down an already over-encumbered judiciary- it won't stop the cars in Times Square but when they are good and dead they'll be gone.
thinazzabird 2 years ago
Mcvey should have been water boarded as well then. He killed little children and attacked a federal building
dantej32 2 years ago
Timothy Mcvey thought he was Luke Skywalker- so as long as the waterboard is from Kenner, i suppose you are correct.
thinazzabird 2 years ago
Are you really this stupid? Or is just an act?
juarezrt 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
They are on Obama's Propaganda Company=Msnbc
frio109 2 years ago
ever notice there seems to be a LOT of white blondes on fox news? If they're not blonde they're light brown hair but still white.
IndependentEsse 2 years ago 2
hahahahaha this is kind of things (FOX) represnts us USA to the world
its a joke and its hurting to us
wake up narrow minded americans
dorje206 2 years ago
To suggest that we have to adjust our values to a situation is wrong we should use our values as a guide to dealing with a situation. Of course this is the kind of thinking that led to the meltdown fraud. When people are above the law they can justify anything.
phantomox 2 years ago 47
I'ma go commit some crime and say hey man, quit thinking about the past and look to the future ok, jeez, my gosh. This is why we never learn from the past
Yerizzo 2 years ago 7
You brought it down to reality my friend. Good job!
sandman2643 2 years ago
Let me get this straight.....General Petraeus, a brilliant, experienced warrior, says that "Enhanced Interrogation" DOESN'T work and is AGAINST American policies........and Foxx News still thinks it's peachy!
redhead761 2 years ago 6
Hilarious. Thanks, Turks.
keytoothed 2 years ago 2
The crux of the problem that the Germans faced in Russia is is epitomized in an entry from General Franz Halder, Chief of the German General Staff, in mid-August of 1941: "We underestimated Russia: we reckoned with 200 divisions, but now we have already identified 360."
WolverineDeus 2 years ago
Still WolverineDeus,(i like ur name!) if it were not for that harsh winter and the late march of the Germans, they would have taken Lenningrad even with 2 fronts going full out. In the end the Germans were arrogant and stupid. Long protracted wars hurt. That's also why we have to get out of Iraq and settle the Afghan situation in short order, or it will cost us our economy as it almost has already.
notlracstabb 2 years ago
The General has spoken!
notlracstabb 2 years ago
The General serves his commander - all good soldiers do. Who told Bush to change tactics and dared Bush that a different plan would work, after 4 years of losing in Iraq? Gen. David Petraeus! The tortures being argued occurred before Gen Petraeus took command. The scholar soldier knows where of he speaks - I wish more people would listen to him.
litlbigman00 2 years ago
Alright,I heard what the General had to say,quit running your yap! Doesn't Martha look Great?~wolfstyle68
wolfstyle68 2 years ago
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wolfstyle68 2 years ago
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wolfstyle68 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
the young jerks
AFpilotJJ 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This dick nose makes the same deceitful laugh every time he lies to himself on video. Typical liberal. Take everything out of context and then admit you would rather make sure a terrorist is comfortable than to save the lives of the innocent.
MG42pillbox 2 years ago
Same old Bull shit. It broke no rule of he GC. Ad second if any of you people knew your entire family would be murdered if you didnt get the information out of a Terrorist you know exactly what you would do.
MG42pillbox 2 years ago
Have you ever read the GC? The Army Field Manual is based upon them.
AntigoneRisen 2 years ago
Does anyone notice this guy is still active duty? Anyone putting two and two together here? You ever notice that the active duty military leadership always agrees with the current administration. It's his duty and believe me these guys take that seriously. When he is wearing that uniform on TV he is at work doing his duty, which is whatever his COMMANDER and chief tells him it is. Also, yes I was saying the same thing when Bush was in office.
ArchNME 2 years ago
He agreed with George Bush when he was the Commander and Chief. He agrees with Obama now that he is Commander and Chief.
That's his job as a General, to stay on the same page as the President.
This isn't even news.
lees20022 2 years ago
OMG! Values are fungeable?! I don't know what word he used but he's just another rationalizer for American cowardice. We are not at war! Wars are against governments. Wars are declared by authorized representatives of a government. This is no more a war than the war on drugs, or the war on poverty, or the war on illiteracy. It's a rhetorical war ONLY! Besides, suspension of rights was only intended to be used in wars in which we're in very serious danger of being overwhelmed by our enemy.
DRMartin789 2 years ago 3
And in this "war" Dubya did all he could so the enemy could overwhelm us. "They hate us for our freedom", didn't he say that? And immediately tried to make us have nothing worth hating for.
xhagast 2 years ago
Good comments - we must live our values in good times and bad. We shouldn't shrug off our countries values or the Geneva Convention because it is inconvenient. Water boarding is torture.
bluepicka74 2 years ago 4
Someone should "interrogate" that Fox biyatch!
Zillahtech 2 years ago
I suggest that everyone that supports torture listen to the Ted Koppel's opinion (search: Torture: Where Do We Go Next?), and read about the UN Convention Against Torture.
Andres64 2 years ago
Yeah, fox news! We are only moral in the good times but when things get tough we wet our pants and panic and fock everybody. God bless us.
luce67 2 years ago
Does this host realize that Petraeus' boss is Barack Obama? And that he said the exact same thing as Barack Obama?
Just maybe, just maybe, Petraeus is being a good employee.
This hosts is blinded by his emotion.
kartman13 2 years ago
morality is a matter of oppinion. Everyone has there own. Just because we do not tourtue prisoners dosent mean our guys wont be. I personally dont agree with that policy cruelty dosent get you information. It gets you what you want to hear
anthonyw713 2 years ago 2
Gen. Petraeus is exactly correct. We must learn as a nation to take the moral high road.
mrpatience2007 2 years ago 4
Keeping moral values in times of strife show if you are a moral person, and breaking them proves you are just as cruel as the terrorist as you claim to be superior too.
CelineSaddern 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i bet if this hosts wife or kids or somthin was kidnapped and he knew someone who knew where they were but they wouldnt tell him, he would change his mind really quickly about torture.
CollegeLyfe23 2 years ago
If it is a choice between Petraeus and Biden in 2016 I would back Petraeus.
milkgodnl 2 years ago 2
oh my lawd - how can these armchair warriors have ANYTHING to say in regards to what Gen Pat says? NEVER have I seen guys in ties and gals n pencil skirts so willing to make jackasses of themselves.
ccm800 2 years ago
so there. Now STFU about crap you know nothing about. If Patreaus isn't "been there done that" then WHO IS? Experience wipes it's ass with opinion now lets decide what we are going to do if anything ABOUT it.
ccm800 2 years ago
BURN....haha Petraeus pwns these braindead right wing clowns!
The REAL America is back morons. If you don't like it move to Russia
normalais 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
George Washington. You've probably never heard of him. The problem with conservatives- and it's the reason the rich have such a hard time entering the Kingdom of Heaven- is that they lack empathy. They can't see things from anybody else's point of view. They see everything in terms of what's in it for me. The universe revolves around me, me, me. Nobody else matters. What's good for me is good. What's bad for me is bad. It's simple that way, and conservatives are simple if they're anything.
keepaopenmind 2 years ago
Well most people forget, most revered military men oppose waterboarding and torture. General Petraeus, General Powell, Chuck Hagel, General Jim Jones all oppose it. Wy? Because it does not work. It was used to get false confessions. It is a liability if anything
bluesboy25000 2 years ago
Hmm, Gen Petraeus knows who butters his bread. You didn't hear a single peep outa him about being against torture when Bush was President. But as soon as Obama takes over he's on the news saying he's against torture. Sounds like a brown-noser and a yes-man to me. Obama otta replace him as soon as possible for someone with integrity.
vande321 2 years ago
And last, but not least, as I retire for the night, what is the solution. I would love to hear what those who vehemently oppose me have to say about how we handle the small factions of those who want Americans dead? Do we do nothing? Do we continue to kiss up and hope they'll become our friends? (Even though ideology says that's impossible) Post some suggestions! If you have an opinion, I'm sure you have an answer.
ConservativeResponse 2 years ago
You want a solution? For starters bring the troops home from the 700 bases around the world. Stop trying to be an empire and rule the world for US corporations. Be the real City on the Hill. The good guys. The new world. The hope of the world, not the scourge. Sleep tight. Grow up. Study hard. Think.
keepaopenmind 2 years ago
Good thought keepaopenmind. Except with that theory, Europe, the Middle East, and Russia would most likely be speaking German right now if we had those policies 60 years ago. You think by simply ignoring a bully will make them go away. I regretful disagree with you on that point.
I sleep better knowing that we are the beacon of goodness on this planet, I am grown up (thank you for your concern), I have a degree in Poli Sci, and thinking goes without saying in this case.
ConservativeResponse 2 years ago
We did have those policies 70 years ago. It's only been since WWII that we've had a large standing military. Also, give credit where it's due. Russia defeated Germany, not the US. You have no idea what I think, so stick to facts. If you think the US is the beacon of goodness on this planet, yoy've got a lot to learn.
keepaopenmind 2 years ago
And that beacon would be?...
And the only reason the Russians could defeat the Germans was a.) the cold weather and b.) the pressure the US was putting on them on the other fronts. Sticking to the facts isn't your strong suit, so be careful how you point your finger.
ConservativeResponse 2 years ago
Beacon of goodness? I haven't given much thought to that. I suppose Denmark, or Iceland, maybe New Zealand might qualify. Certainly not the US. The US is the land of opportunity and offers relative freedom. But goodness? Get real. Nothing destroys a people's freedom quicker than a standing army in peacetime. Who said that, political science major?
keepaopenmind 2 years ago 2
I'm guessing Churchill... but not sure.
As for the countries that you listed, they have no influence on the world. Hence no beacon!
ConservativeResponse 2 years ago
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keepaopenmind 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
George Washington. You've probably never heard of him. The problem with conservatives- and it's the reason the rich have such a hard time entering the Kingdom of Heaven- is that they lack empathy. They can't see things from anybody else's point of view. They see everything in terms of what's in it for me. The universe revolves around me, me, me. Nobody else matters. What's good for me is good. What's bad for me is bad. It's simple that way, and conservatives are simple if they're anything.
keepaopenmind 2 years ago
ConservativeResponse,
The reason that the Russians defeated the Germans was because the Germans vastly underestimated the strength and the resources of the USSR. The German invasion of Russian failed in the winter of 1941, BEFORE the US entered the War. After the failure to take Moscow and Leningrad in Novemeber-December of 1941, Germany's eventual defeat was virtually a foregone conclusion; the entry of the US into the war only hastened the inevitable.
Your facts are not very strong, either.
WolverineDeus 2 years ago 3
I agree, Napoleon Lost to Russia for the very same reason: Underestimating the might of the other side as well as not knowing the territory! Both the Germans & the French got humiliated when they launched their assault on the Russian! Only the Afghans were able to bring down the mighty Russian Communist empire!! Imagine that a rag tag group of militants defeated the second most heavily armed powerful nation on Earth and ushered the end of the EAST & WEST Berlin division and the end of USSR !!!!!
maricoulibaly 2 years ago
I might beg to differ with you on the March to Lenningrad. Arrogance stopped the Germans by way of the harsh winter. The Germans had 1 million men in that campaign and killed 4 million russians on the march. They were actually 25 miles from there before the stoppage. We had no real idea if we were going to be successful in 41', and Germany at that time was the most powwrful nation on earth then. Germany fucked up when they went to a 2 front war. The Kaiser made the same mistake, Arrogance.
notlracstabb 2 years ago
Read a book called BRUTE FORCE, by John Ellis. Once the initial German surge was stopped short of Moscow and Leningrad, Germany had practically no hope of winning on the Eastern Front. The Russians successfully evacuated most of their industry and factories from the territories occupied by the Germans in 1941 across the Urals. Germany lacked the industrial capacity and the strategic raw materials to fight a long war, and lacked the mechanized forces needed to fight successfully in Russia.
WolverineDeus 2 years ago
You have to ask yourself this question, what front was this particular march and engagement on? Was there another front that the Germans were fighting on simultaneously? Once you see that the Germans had stretched their resources on 2 fronts, the exact same mistake that Kiaser Wilhelm made in the first war, and was told to Hitler not to do.....then that's exactly what he did, and it cost him the war and his nation and in the end his life!
notlracstabb 2 years ago
There was one front in Western Europe, facing England, a second front in the Mediterranean and North Africa, and a third front in Russia. Hitler violated every rule of grand strategy imaginable. His initial run of victories was due to the technical and tactical superiority of the panzer forces which constituted just a slender fragment of Germany's armed forces. The more successful he was, however, the more overextended he became.
WolverineDeus 2 years ago
That's right, he got way overextended and that was because of ARROGANCE! He crushed most of Western Europe in a matter of weeks, he had some Brilliant Generals running his campaigns in North Africa and in the east. He was too successful. That causes arrogance, I feel we have been guilty of the same in the middleeast. Torture and some of the other things would have gotten you in front of a firing squad in WWII.
notlracstabb 2 years ago
Here's a suggestion...let's get out of the middle east, and pull our bases out of there which is offensive to the Islamic religion according to the 911 report. And according to the 911 report, that is what caused us to get attacked on 911.
How do you like that for some suggestions?
calimar28 2 years ago
It's a suggestion. I would prefer to not be there. (Surprise eh?) We'll see what Obama does, I don't believe he's going to stop pursuing bin Laden. Whether it's Iraq, Pakistan, or Afghanistan, he will keep troops there. A little surprising considering he ran on a campaign promis of being out of the middle east by 2012. If he actually knew what he was talking about, he may not have made that promise he had no intention on keeping.
ConservativeResponse 2 years ago
I would hardly call legal due process "kissing up" - if we love America we must defend the IDEA of america - anyone who has ever said "with liberty and JUSTICE for all" needs to understand that legal due process isn't a nicety that we can arbitrarily abandon - otherwise we look like lying hypocrites - and we abandon a tenet that makes this country truly great. Torture will not defend America - it may destroy it.
garboil 2 years ago
So you're saying that our legal due process which is our standard should be used on peoples from other countries? That hardly sounds fair either. Once again we stamp OUR way of life and OUR measure of fairness on people that don't like or respect us and certainly don't treat the law the way we do.
Try again garboil.
ConservativeResponse 2 years ago
The first thing you might do is to stop acting like a fool. Your argument amounts to nothing but defending the torture of other human beings,
jflurry 2 years ago
Did you read my posts, or are you just trying to incite?
ConservativeResponse 2 years ago
As for foreign policy, I wish we could have peace with all foreign nations. But you have North Korea testing nuclear weapons and Iran right behind them. This is where the country is split. I say take action, others say its not our concern. When it becomes "our concern", it will be too late. And those taking the isolationist approach will be on another apology tour. This time it will be to the loss of life on American soil.
ConservativeResponse 2 years ago
As I've said before, corruption on both sides of the aisle tend to murk up the waters when it comes to making policy and talking about beliefs or agendas. But removing all corruption, I would take a Conservative approach 100% of the time over a "Spread the Wealth" around approach. When you spread wealth, you destroy it. Why not just create more?
ConservativeResponse 2 years ago
Look guys torturing is evil, but it works. Just do an experiment. Take one ticklish person and give them a date and location of an "attack". Tell them not to tell under any circumstances or else, etc. Then proceed to tickle them untill they scream uncle and the information will be revealed. The same concept works with a strong willed believer in a cause and torture. Eventually they all scream uncle without any mean to. Just asking them wont do shit. Every country tortures in secret. Cause it wor
mfcmaddog 2 years ago
It "works" to elicit confessions and false informations mostly. It also means those on whom it is used will die fighting rather than be captured. It also means our guys will be tortured eventually. Torture is wrong, and it is dumb. How do you know every country tortures in secret? You don't know..
keepaopenmind 2 years ago
If you recognize that torturing is evil, then don't do it. Even if it worked like you seem to think it does, don't do it; it's evil. That's the bottom line. You better hope there's no Heaven or hell.
keepaopenmind 2 years ago
Isn't the freedom to pursue those things without being burdened by unfair taxes what this country is about? At least economically?
ConservativeResponse 2 years ago
The real travesty here are the assumptions keepaopenmind. The fact that all Repulicans and / or Conservatives are labeled as Nazi's and people assume that we're pro-torture is absurd. We'll see if the Obama apolgy tour works in the Middle East.
I'll just go on the record now as saying his policies, economic and foreign, will not work.
I'm just not sure I understand why liberals are so against free markets, wealth, and prosperity.
ConservativeResponse 2 years ago
Lol "values are fudge-able. Look at Lincoln and haebus corpus..." I guess some Faux News idiots need to be reminded that we're not in the midst of a civil war with half the nation broken off, before they use fail examples.
Also, "torture stops our enemies" is simply bullshit. Nobody is going to be willing to submit to American rule, or become prisoners, if they know "I'm going to die in the hands of Americans from torture." It's what happens when you act hypocritically to your values.
PrUnEJuIcEtHeThIrD 2 years ago
True conservatives oppose the occupation and looting of Iraq. A lot of nitwits call themselves conservatives these days because they think conservatives are a majority. Bush changed all that, as we'll see as time goes on. Nothing increases federal, and presidential power, more than war. That's why true conservatives oppose the Iraq "war."
keepaopenmind 2 years ago
Funny I never seen one of them vote against it or even speak out! Please the only thing the conservatives know how to do is obstruct and divert and vlame everyone else for the things they do themselves. Such as Rush Limbaugh calling Sotomayor a racist even as he has told one of his listeners"to take the bone out of her nose". Also he said all drug addicts should be shot while he was doctor shopping himself! To me this is the perfect example of the hypocrisy of the conservatives!
plumbweis 2 years ago
Check out Joseph Sobran. He was a conservative when that was a bad name, as it will be again. Buckley, an old hawk, finally came to realize "it's not working." Pat Buchanen was against it. Haven't paid any attention to him lately. The Conservative Party in 2004 was against the war. In fact, in 2004, only the Rep and Dem parties supported it. If you look, you will find the old style conservatives opposed this evil aggression. I'd consider Ron Paul pretty conservative.
keepaopenmind 2 years ago
CNN wouldn't know the truth if it bit them on the butt. I'm sorry if I'm crumbling your perfect little world. Cheney didn't say they said anything specific, so stop being an idiot.
If they showed failure, Obama would have released them with bells on. You think I'm the parrot here, but the only parrot is the one that you're looking at in the mirror. Your logic sucks man.
ConservativeResponse 2 years ago
Better start seaching the internet for some better comebacks.
ConservativeResponse 2 years ago