Possible new U.S. Army marksmanship training

[a9653192]

OK there soldier, took you like 10 seconds to do a speed reload? I usually keep my weapon on my shoulder while using the other hand to reload.

[BedStuyBro]

Basic Training is fun. After that you should leave.

[wordbeyotch]

Magpul video would do the guy who kept hitting his mag a world of good.

[twint1p]

can lefthanded shoot by left hand side or do we have to shoot like right handed?

[shogunrommel]

@twint1p At 00:05, the shooter on 12 is firing left-handed. If the Army's shooting technique is similar enough to Marines' in this SPECIFIC topic (not other ones) of WHICH SIDE TO SHOOT FROM, then ideally, you'll shoot from whichever side's eye is dominant. If you're left-handed but right eye dominant, then you should shoot right-handed. Me, I'm practically all right side dominant, including hand and eye, so I shoot right-handed. My point: right eye dominant = shoot right-handed or vice versa.

[twint1p]

@shogunrommel yeah im also left eye dominant. thanks

[TheGreenSmoke]

@USMarineRifleman0311

my guess is that you're a POG.

cheers, POG!

[TheGreenSmoke]

I played a lot of Counter Strike and COD 2 before basic in 2007, so I was super 1337.

[thegreek14]

@USMarineRifleman0311

Its cool man, all branches rib together its old to argue. I think during peacetime its fun and games but these last 10 years, everybody really has to stick together.

[USMarineRifleman0311]

@thegreek14

We qualify from the 200-300 and 500yds with iron sights, your course was a joke after finishing our table 1.

Like I told you, we shoot 12in bullseyes from the 200yd line in the standing, the farthest standing shot you have to take is from 25-50m I think. Since you shoot at paper from a fixed distance, your course is a joke, your riflemen have no knowledge of adjusting sights for windage....theres actually no need, all you people do is kentucky windage it anyways.

[thegreek14]

@USMarineRifleman0311

Allright meat sponge chillout

[TheGreenSmoke]

@USMarineRifleman0311, if you are a Marine, I bet you're a little boot who just got to the fleet.

[USMarineRifleman0311]

@n2bracing2

Granted, I know of a couple of terrible shots within every grunt company Ive been with. There's always a couple that are made to lead and not pull triggers.

When my unit trained on an army base, we could only have the ivans pop up in rifle qual sequence so we decided to try our luck at your style of shooting and Im glad to say 90% of the company wouldve been expert. But that was after we dialed our rifles in for 500yd annual qual shooting the prev. month

[FUNshootVideo]

This video only shows the proposed qual course and not the entire program. 

[tul10c]

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[USMarineRifleman0311]

this isnt marksmanship, this is just instinctive shooting with scenarios.

I dont see how this is new since we've been teaching our recruits to shoot during the 3rd and last week of the marksmanship training to fire from behind obstacles and cover ...since the 60s.

Its common place to find whole platoons of soldiers that have no clue what a loop sling is or the fundamentals of a steady shooting position.....let alone how to guage the wind speed according to a range flag or tree sway

[n2bracing2]

@USMarineRifleman0311 This is the Army "ARM" (advanced rifle marksmanship) which is basicly tactical shooting, stress shooting etc.... They teach all of that in "BRM" (basic rifle marksmanship) which is the fundamentals of the weapon systems, M4,240,249,.50 cal, MK19 etc. also firing positions and ALOT of trigger time, steady firing positions etc.. However, they don't teach determining wind speed. I learned that by reading the Sniper field training manual.

[USMarineRifleman0311]

@n2bracing2

70% of the initial instruction we get in bootcamp is on what the "elements" do to the bullet once it leaves the muzzle. Thats where your biggest weakness is. The farthest ivan target that the army quals ask you to shoot is 50yds or less (in the standing)So I think its quite a statemant when a basic Marine rct is able to shoot a 12in bullseye from 200yds away in the standing (iron sights) All other shooting that we do after is considered a joke, like this ARM style stuff

[poopmadoo]

@USMarineRifleman0311 you obviously know very little of army training. In bct we are trained on the FUNDAMENTALS of marksmanship. the very basic stuff. trigger squeeze, breathing, etc. etc. we shot targets from kneeling, prone supported, prone unsupported, and standing. our standing targets went out to 150m (though i seen some of the drill sergeants going up to 300. during AIT (MOS training) i shot targets out to 500. a lot up up downs etc. we shot at moving and popup Ivans at all distances.

[USMarineRifleman0311]

@poopmadoo

Ive seen your qual table and it only requires offhand shots out to 50-100. What certain individuals can do alone isnt our characteristic. Every boot we have has qualified FOR SCORE in the offhand from the 200.

When shooting Ivans you have NO time to adjust sights or read the wind, its all kentucky windage..

You dont have a structured 1910 era program of teaching marksm. like we still do. Look up NRA XTC to see what Im talking about

[mcjrotc3]

...yeah...cause we were just standing in the open while the enemy fired at us.

[1brandon504]

@steagle33

lol. yah. obviously someone didn't pay attention during instruction on malfunction drills. hopefully they threw out that controlled pairs BS and switched to the practice of shoot him until he goes down.

[jg928]

Dont forget SPORTS!!!

[steagle33]

Yeah, just keep slapping the bottom of the magazine- that'll fix the jam...

[lukefromdownunder]

I like the idea of one round bieng made to jam the rifle. That would be a good training idea

[Boston1775]

wait, you run 10-13 miles straight twice a week? Thats half a marathon, they cant possibly expect a random kid outve high school to do that.

[phillyslasher]

@Boston1775 His ass better learn.

[curseofa5r5a]

training its the soliders best equipment.

[heatwave2012]

this training went through, to my knowledge

[CommanderSyler]

Huh,this is like my trainig in Americas Army game

lol

[hernandot3]

Oh crap, I remember this. We did standard quals, and then these. It was SO frustrating at first, trying to figure out how many rounds it took to take out the targets. To make matters worse: one time around, I got the pretty rare bolt override (the brass casing gets stuck on TOP of the bolt, near the gas chamber) and it's a bit tricky to fix. Still, the program makes sense.

Proud to Be 11B

[Cazfootball19]

@hernandot3 Hey man I leave 20100706 for Infantry OSUT, can you tell me any advice?

[hernandot3]

@Cazfootball19 Start working on your running NOW. You'll run a minimum of 3 miles every morning for the duration of PT, and 10-13 miles once or twice per week. Also, make sure that your form on push-ups is spot on. Remember: his first name is Drill. Last name is Sergeant.

Always volunteer, despite common hearsay. Wake up at 15 minutes before first call, it'll make life much easier. Always get a good shave, and liquid soap is better than bar soap. Do that and you'll be golden.

Proud to be 11B

[FrankfortHigh]

@hernandot3 3 miles every morning! :'( this is gonna hurt

[justin2800]

@hernandot3 yeah it depends heavily what DS you have I was in Bravo company which was considered the "easy company but none the less you are gonna run I hated the forced 13 mile march with full battle rattle haha

[drummerboynic16]

@hernandot3 Hooah soldier

[USparatroopersurgeon]

@hernandot3 Is that for airborne or infantry?

[hernandot3]

@USparatroopersurgeon Infantry OSUT. 

[USparatroopersurgeon]

@hernandot3 Is that like Basic training?

[hernandot3]

@USparatroopersurgeon Yes. Infantry goes through Basic and AIT in one location, with the same Drill Sergeants the whole time. It's called OSUT: One Station Unit Training.

[colombiantom]

@hernandot3 you could be the best in your platoon, but someone will always fuck up, and you'll pay for them

[neckarsulme]

@hernandot3 Wow, the memories.....11B Fort Jackson, SC graduated 09-04-80

[LiveInFullEffect]

...we did this for BCT at Fort Jackson two years ago.

[42ndairsoftcompany]

@LiveInFullEffect is it hard

[92Stryker]

ye i did that stuff for about 2 weeks when i was ther this past summer, think its standard for all bct units at benning now. pretty fun to.

[ugadawg92]

So do you think they will fully incorporate this new style into Infantry OSUT by 2011? Because that's when I'm headed to Benning.

[salix1970]

interesting. the Army and Marine Corps have very different approaches to marksmanship, they both should combine the different approaches.

[20GATE91]

i agree.i think tthe army should allow the marines into the army so the army's infantry would be the marines.

[1927henritta]

the marines is a part of the usn

[1977F150408]

@salix1970 We have a difference. Army prefers close quarters. Marines like using their excellent marksmanship skills long range.

[dubya68]

@1977F150408 IMO, the Army has a better system (technically, not physically) for our current wars, most of the contact is happening at a close distance.

[1977F150408]

@dubya68 As I said.

[dubya68]

@1977F150408 No, what you said was that "Marines like using their excellent marksmanship skills long range." The USMC's marksmanship training technique is outdated for most of today's infantrymen. But the USMC still has the best snipers because of that training.

[1977F150408]

@dubya68 Theyre not the best, they are good, but not the best. The Marines use their marksmanship to their advantage, thats how they operate. Thats why they use the M-16 for the longer barrel. Marines will never change their style of marksman. Its been that way for the past 60 + years. The Army uses their M-4s to do what thei Infantry does best, which is closer range. And for the record, the SEALs have some of the best snipers in the world, so does the Army, the Marines, SAS, etc....

[USMarineRifleman0311]

@1977F150408

man for man, no one has higher marksmanship training than the USMC.

Theres no denying that. Our rifle team competitors have written the book on it and set their share of world records still unbroken.

We have 4 tables of fire to qualify when it comes to the rifle. Table 1 is the oldest (over 100yrs old now) where we shoot match style as close as 200yds in the standing (12in tgts) and from the prone at the 500yd line. The other 3 tables are all CQB with some moving tgts

[TheGreenSmoke]

@USMarineRifleman0311, you are a huge douchenozzle.

[rafyraf100]

@USMarineRifleman0311 keep your ass on marine vids!!! RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!!!!

[rockthistown2009]

@salix1970 I say that would have been awesome , but first they should start stop hating each other .. But I say for sure one day