RE AMEMIYA 20B Disassembly

[djmplus]

Do they not use ratchets in japan?

[ApSykesThewolf]

@djmplus

Those two big bolts: Using breaker for leverage

hex screws: ratchets will be ineffective since those screws will not give any resistance for the ratchet to turn for those clicky clicks

also, turning it by hand lets you "feel" if any screws were stripped or not, in a engine, you always take your time and make sure you fix something before you make it go bad

[BioZoooM]

Awesome video disassembly. I wish it had subtitles in english to know what are they saying.

[parcel105]

I don't like how he pull the plate at 8:22...

[GrandMoffSilvey]

Someone explain to me the reasoning behind this choice of cross drillings with filled holes in the rotors and I want to see how they balance this beast.

[117zoomzoom]

@GrandMoffSilvey er, the drilled or shaved holes in the ROTORS is a weight reduction. The filled in holes in the rotor HOUSINGS and SIDEPLATES is that; ordinarily as you can tell from the side plate, the intake ports are on the side, and air is fed though a manifold connected to the sideplates. This 20B had a peripheral port (you'll have research ports to recognize the significance of different port types), so the holes were closed up and a new peripheral intake was made above the exhaust port

[GrandMoffSilvey]

@117zoomzoom at 7:35 you to see two places where the rotors have been drilled just below 2 out of the 3 apexes. Then, they were filled. Why only 2? How much of a cavity, if any, is in those filled holes. There is a center of gravity, rotational inertia, balancing concept I don't understand. I have looked for videos now how people balance 3 rotor engines without much success. All I see are eccentric shaft balances.

[117zoomzoom]

@GrandMoffSilvey Ive only seen that spot drilled as a weight reduction, the only reason that they'd fill it, in my inexperienced opinion, is to balance it. I've never heard of anyone actually filling those holes, Id have thought that sort of a job was irreversible.

[azerslay]

kids,steroids is bad.rotary is good

[crustydemonsully]

@azerslay rotary is good mmmkay

[Bamchucknorris]

Only complaint is...

9:27 dont put tools on the irons and band away damnit

[madjimms]

@Bamchucknorris He knows what hes doing..

[tunastrike11]

sounds like a stupid jap cooking show.

[Ponkiizz]

@tunastrike11 You sound stupid in general.

[spectowin]

Iv seen this guy in some old video option's with amemiya building a 20b for an fc. I bet he can build one of these in his sleep by now.

[thaandiesel]

i wish i could understand them, this vid is awesome for showing this, thanx for uploading! and ide rather use hand tools too

[Mogry51]

Awesome Video. That was very interesting!

[ranacherian]

all the engine lined up in the background look like a goods train lol

[mongoangry]

Idk why but every time I watch this I feel relaxed

[JDMmz309]

One word Amazing...

[bongborin]

This looks very fun educational.

This guy is pro...

Man this got tools and this rotory have so much nuts and bolts.

#48,535

[ujusgotownd]

nigguh 8:37 LOL

[KooKVT]

2:06 Dry Humping is the only thing I understood

[ssonosk]

what dvd is this from?

[fastfallin]

they make it look so easy

now where is the re build video lol

[HrV147]

LOL AT IT BEING AT 13B AT 3:55

[Twinfire]

So there's only three bearings that support the "crankshaft" i know its elliptical or concentric or somethin like that, was curious as i'm looking into building a scale blown version of this engine, early days yet.

What makes me admire these engine guys is that they could bolt one back together with their eyes shut.

[z06camaro]

Hes fuckin good, I hope to be like him one day.

[turboutevy]

dude has no idea

[flyboy333]

Dear jesus, is that a PP 20? So much power...

[countpuchi]

He makes it look like ABC 1 , 2 , 3~!

[drumsetkiller365]

imma go out on a limb and say he had done this before lol

[somerandomaussie]

@drumsetkiller365 lets just say re amemiya is the god of rotary tuning...

[theflyingkiwi01]

lol this aint no 20B haha its a 13B> says so on the housing at 3:57 noob

[somerandomaussie]

@theflyingkiwi01 20b is 3 rotor 13b is a 2 rotor notice the 3 rotor housings means its a 20b .... 20b uses THREE 13b housings noob -.-

[fc3sttwo]

@theflyingkiwi01 a 13b only has 2 exhaust ports.... 1 exhaust port per rotor.... Notice this engine has 3 exhaust ports... hence 3 rotors...

[rotaryperfection]

@theflyingkiwi01 LOL! Rotary housings are interchangable. If you weren't rotary illiterate, you would know this.

[LucLeFou]

notice he doesnt wear any mechanic gloves

[Ravenspeed]

what is that T handle spinning tool hes using ?

[gpc510]

@Ravenspeed its an oldschool socket wrench, instead of ratcheting it spins

[bmwe30guy]

@gpc510 it is actually called a Breakover bar...same as a ratchet but w/o the ratcheting head so as you wont break or chip teeth in the head while breaking loose hi-torq bolts

[gpc510]

@bmwe30guy good to know, I own a lot of these tools most were doubles of my dads, so I dont know all their exact names :P

[CarrionIIX]

very useful video!!!!

[t200cad]

now i know how to put one back together,

[Hebert6760]

what the fuck is that? i love rotarys but damn that looks like a damn space ship engine that guy knows

[knduong]

Did anyone else see the 13B Mazda sign at 3:55

[antyg39]

@knduong bro a 20b is just 3 x 13b rotars put together

[rxi11]

@antyg39 its a bit more complex than that ..

[Forzascuderiaf1]

is there supposed to be an oil pan on that engine

[noob5000000]

it's a dry sump setup.

[alakseifer]

Interesting that they retain the oil metering pump.

[999miki]

@alakseifer Maybe they aren´t permitted to run oil in fuel. Or they found that properly working OMP is superior to premix at same oil flow...

[rxi11]

@999miki

Premix will always be better , because premix oil is designed to burn with fuel omp uses engine oil which is designed to lubricate the enging not burn in fuel ..

[999miki]

@rxi11 This.

How much of that premix oil is burned without even reaching apex seals? Where is some hard evidence about superiority of premix? Premix engines aren´t indicating any less carbon build up than OMP engines.

[rxi11]

@999miki i race sports sedans and have been for racing for 22 years .. if you mix it to 200:1 it achieves what it needs to ..

you keep using oem if you like .. we dont , we win races

[damonlandsdown]

@999miki trust me, if youre ill injectors fail this will save youre engine

[999miki]

uhm... no. Engine will not fail, seize,whatever... even without any oil reaching apex seals. This is it. Combination of rotor housing porous chrome surface and factory mazda cast iron apex seals or carbon seals or ceramics - all self-lubricating properties ensures it. There are certain reputable people over rx8club who build engines and know their stuff. One of them mentioned that he accidentally didn´t fill up reservoir of his sohn adapter and run few hundred miles ... no ill effects...

[damonlandsdown]

@999miki oh, thanks. learnt more bout a legend :)

[rotaryperfection]

@999miki You want proff? Here search this over at the Rx7Club.com forum "Save the whales SAVE YOUR MOTOR" part one. Thread is by Howard Coleman. Premixing is the ULTIMATE way to lubricate the combustion chamber while fighting carbon build-up in an rotary engine. I have 1st hand experience myself.

[999miki]

@rotaryperfection I saw whole thread, and it proves nothing. Rotor from Howard´s engine is spotless thanks to METHANOL injection, so no proof.

How do you know its ultimate? Have you done back to back testing of premix vs. OMP at same flow rate??

And carbon build-up has nothing to do with oil, be it premix or sump oil. Fuel - gasoline causes carbon build-up.

And lastly, this oil actually doesn´t lubricate nor cools apex seals but rather makes boundary layer for heat transfer to trochoid housing.

[rotaryperfection]

@999miki I know that fuel is the main cause of carbon build-up but what you have to understand is that when you premix, the oil is mixed with the fuel and is injected. What is happening is that you have a oil FILM that evenly gets distributed all around the combustion chamber. You get an oil film on the side plates and the rotor face. When the rotor face has the oil film, carbon deposits will not adhear to it. This film (because of turbulance) also will make it's way up the intake runners.

[rotaryperfection]

@rotaryperfection The oil film in the runners will also keep the aux 5th and 6th port actuators from sticking. I have a S5 that I rebult that was granny driven for 45,000 miles. It should be carbon infested but it's not. This engine is premix only. After sitting for a year, it fired up without any issues. Both of my aux port still move freely. Last this engine I will tear down with-in the next few months for inspection. I'm very fonfident that the carbon build-up will be very minimal.

[rotaryperfection]

@rotaryperfection Lastly as some people may assume to believe, the OMP does not spray oil into the housing. There isn't enough pressure for that. It only ooozes in so the apex seals can squeegy the oil around the rotor housing. That's all it's designed to do. The OMP does NOTHING for the side plates. I've only been working with these engines since 1991 and have owned all generations of rx7's and rebuilt all of them.

[999miki]

@rotaryperfection Nothing wrong with this. From the beginning of development was shown that oil getting around oil control rings is sufficient for side seal/side housing lubrication.

But to each his own

[rotaryperfection]

@999miki Curious why are you just not conviced by the premixing? How come? I'm gonna do some really good comparisons between my own two engines for the forum to help others. My results are more long therm an Howards. Even the carbon build up on my fd's rotors is of the same mileage of my rebult s5 engine. The reason that is is because at 70k I pulled my fd engine to replace the clutch. While is was out, I pulled the turbos and cleaned the rotor faces of carbon. So both engine will represent

[rotaryperfection]

@rotaryperfection between 38-45 thousand miles worth of carbon build-up. Also I never premixed my fd at the time, I never realized how helpfull it was back then.

[999miki]

@rotaryperfection Wow T-von,I didn´t know its you!Mad props to your N/A 20B!I didn´t say that premixing doesn´t work,surely it works and from certain power level its must for apex seal life.But question remains:Why RE-Amemia on all-out race car is using OMP? :-)

And one more thing, don´t take everything what Howard Coleman says and writes as God's word. He doesn´t deserve so much credit. Unfortunately, really knowledgeable people like Crispeed or Rice Racing no longer contributes or are banned.

[rotaryperfection]

@999miki RE-Amemia uses OMP because in race applications, lubrication of the apex seals is the most important thing. OMP is superior in that aspect. Remember, their engine don't see thousands and thousands of miles, cold starts, granny driving, low reving CARBON building situations liek your street engines do. I like the benefits of pre-mix in LONG term useage (if that makes since). :-) I'm currently thinking of re-installing my OMP for those reasons and still premix.

[rotaryperfection]

@rotaryperfection Now as far as Howard goes, I actually tend to pay more attention to his suspension threads more than anything. I respect him for actually posting that thread and trying to show the differences. There are sooo many people that than can only be convinced with visual proof. ;)

[999miki]

@rotaryperfection Fair enough.

Personally, I have high doubts about his turbo math and actual understanding whats going on in turbo systems. But since he cluttered whole rx7club with his cool story about methanol and how it will safe whole rotary mankind, his word is taken as gospel despite he lacks credibility and just trying to make everyone bow in front of his tables which can anyone with half brain find on google. People are loosing common sense, thats it.

[999miki]

@999miki Don´t take me wrong. This isn´t against auxiliary injection. Auxiliary injection is best thing what anyone should do for turbo rotary or any other highly stressed internal combustion engine. Enhance of reliability, durability, ability to almost double BMEP limit of given fuel and at the same time can work with better fuel economy. WIN WIN combination, but not in the way how Howard promotes it.

[999miki]

@999miki Simple said, Methanol on its own is bad AI, best knock suppressant is water and best thing in terms of amount of liquid, efficiency in suppressing detonation and at the same time easy to ignite is to mix these two in 50:50 by mass. Mechanical engineers know this for over 60 years from extensive testing, yet Howard Coleman thinks he can do better with pure methanol. Why not? He can. Its his engine. But making false advertisment how it all works to promote what does he doing is too much.

[999miki]

@rotaryperfection And this is it. It is ridiculous when people start jumping on bandwagon that premix is only way to go. Thinking is other way around. As you pointed out, premix seems to do good job in low load aplications where, thanks to unstable combustion, is need for richer mixtures. At high load situations, we have to cool apex seals and large amount of premix oil covering everything except apex seals is wrong.

[999miki]

@999miki Perfect example would be people from BHR, for daily driving, they premix, but for track days, they leave the OMP do its job.

[999miki]

@rotaryperfection Fair enough, I have to agree with above. Unfortunately, problem about carbon build-up lies in combustion inefficiency of wankel rotary. Specifically in large surface to volume ratio causing fuel droplets sticking to relatively cold rotor. Simply put - lots of fuel is wasted in this poor distribution.....

[rotaryperfection]

@999miki WoW I'm really glad you understand that. Much props ;) When my 3rd gen was stock, I always left the AWS do it's thing. If your not familar with Fd's, the engine would rev to 3k on cold starts to heat up the cat faster. I saw this as a way to help burn the excessive fuel that's dumped in on cold startup. Others thought it was damaging to the bearings. Nope! My engine lasted 108k original miles till I blew it from over boosting. I pulled it apart and my bearings were still perfect.

[JuanPapaNicolao]

REAL FACT !!!! the legend of zelda and MAZDA BOTH POSSES a TRI-FORCE OF WISDOM !!!!!!!!

[rotarycorvette1]

it is so damn simple!! i need to learn to be good..for now i will pay.

[916fanatic1]

English subtitles please

[douafreedomgtmuaytha]

that alot of stuff to take out.... tat hard work

[RotaryPowaA]

That was pretty fast with the flywheel, we broke two and bend one power handle with my flywheel

[RotaryPowaA]

Nice video, if only it was in english

[ageth2]

When you use air tools u risk snapping bolts

[golfy808]

13b housings huh!!!

[weldon0m]

USE AIR TOOLS MAN....

[scottc5887]

@weldon0m more fun and relaxing to just use hand tools tbh.

[twizz420]

@scottc5887 not to mention 10000000x cheaper and more reliable...

[NaomiChanX]

@weldon0m

You don't use air tools on an engine, you fucking moron.

[89jdm7m]

wait.... did he just separate the crank? wtf

[socamoto]

20B engines hve a 2 piece crank.

13B have a 1 piece

Its to reduce shaft flex at higher rpm since the shaft is longer.

[matt921]

didnt know that till now i was like how is he going to get the second intermedite iron off with out pulling the e shaft up hahaha i was like hummmmm

[rotaryperfection]

@socamoto No that's not true. The only reason 20b's have a 2 piece shaft is for assembly reasons. You would not be able to put the engine together were it not for the 2 piece design. The intermidiate plate has to lifted about 1" so it can be removed off the e-shaft. You would not be able to do this if the shaft was one solid piece because the front rotor journal bearing would hit the front plate once you lift it up.

[Hecubus84]

Having taken apart a few 13bs in my time and judging by the cleanliness of the rotors and wear on the apex seals; I'm going to guess that a assembly error is what took this engine out .

Awesome vid btw, never seen a 20b taken apart before.

[HongKongFooy1]

Hey PJ, I strongly suggest you take your REPU from my driveway ASAP! I just might be taking your engine apart this weekend..LOL

[hondasforlunch]

how in the world did that flywheel come off so easily?!?!!?!?!!?!?!?!?

[speedboarding100]

lol he's asian, what do you expect? haha

[rotorman13b]

Harbor freight actually sells a big torque wrench as big as that guy's breaker bar

[JulianoRamirez]

so simple yet so complicated at the same time, just amazing

[noob5000000]

He makes the flywheel nut removal look so easy...

[Kamukix]

@noob5000000 yes, last engine I had to disassemble the flywheel nut was very hard to do. I had to take the engine to a shop for big trucks to get help removing it. O_O

Kei

[cmoncalian]

really cool to watch....i know nothing about those motors and they interest me. watchin him tear into it is really cool

[taiwanlong]

can any one share why is the mazda RX7 engine so powerful with only 1.3 engine.i wonder wad is so speacia about the RX7 engine from mazda

[rotarydriftdreams]

this is why...rotary arent known for puttin up big number when it comes to torque what we rely on is our upper range when those rotors get spinnin the car fly's so all power is produced up top the s4 and s5 have 2 actuators that open up after 5k but i took mine off so they are constantly open i lost low end but once i get past 4 grand that car moves..if it aint a rotor it aint a motor baby

[taiwanlong]

thank u for the great INFORMATION bro.

[rotarydriftdreams]

sure thing any way i can help atleast u asked most people hate on rotary cause they just dont understand it when really its a simple design it has 3 moving parts lol

[az112a]

well this one is a 2.0L

[lelimansaleh]

my only wish is 'I wish i can work there' then, i'll pee myself everytime i disassembled one.. i'll never get bored. thats sure!

[snapywrist]

where the big one come from a truck.

[snapywrist]

it just wont start no big deal.

[snapywrist]

i didnt see that very good balancing.

[flip3d]

the apex seals just come out like that? neat!

[snapywrist]

could be the third rotor not balancing

[rotor13]

it is balanced... and its not the third rotor. it is the first rotor.

It looks as tho as one or even two of the corner seal springs collapsed, causing the rotor to make contact with the side plates.

[snapywrist]

i didnt know redlineing would do that. hope its chubby.

[rotor13]

redlining will do what?

[rotorman13b]

I need that T-socket tool, and that crank rotational engine stand! And i'll take most of those housings..ah, just give me the whole motor =)

[knduong]

Holy damn hes good.

[lasse77777]

He's done that before, that's certain.

[ijets]

Where did u get this video and which volume? Best Motoring? Hot Version? Option Video? or else?

[CF3rotor]

You can make an eccentric shaft tool, Mazda wont sell you one unless you are a sponsored team member. I made my own.

[forthewebsites]

where can u buy the the t shapped spanner tool with 3/8 drive and 1/2 drive... i can find it online anywhere

[dnuofntsol]

Man I wanna visit that shop just one day before I die =)

[driftability]

Judging by this vid is it actually possible to turn a 13B into a 20B???.

[noob5000000]

You can, if you have another rotor, another housing and most importantly, the 20Bs 'fat iron' and the e-shaft.

[mikeb1444]

Fuck it, go to a 26B

[noob5000000]

Well, if you have like $15000 lying around, go right ahead...

[mikeb1444]

That's not too bad. The LS9 costs 21k, the LS7 Costs 14k, 26b makes more power and a better sound than the LS7 and weighs less than the LS9. I struggle to gind a bad point about Rotary.

[rotor13]

Incorrect.

just to get a 4-rotor with ITBs, you'll need about $40k, MINIMUM.

[noob5000000]

Where was a 4-rotor mentioned? The question at hand was whether or not you could build a 3-rotor out of 13B parts. The answer is yes you can, as long as you have 2 very important parts from the 20B (e-shaft and fat iron, and of course another matching rotor and housing).

A 4-rotor is obviously going to substantially more expensive, since there was never a production car equipped with one and therefore many parts will have to be custom made.

[HeavyGhost]

@driftability yes, 20b is essentially just 3 13b rotor housings and a longer eccentric shaft.

[rotor13]

no kerotanz, that is Mazda's official puller tool to remove the front piece of the eccentric shaft.

a more simple way is to slowy wedge it out from many sides little by little.

[marek0086]

the guy in the video says "truck propeller shaft".

[kerotanz]

it was a truck propeller shaft.

[kerotanz]

no name tool because its re amemiya's creation tool. it w