Using a longbow on horseback, the archer is able to shoot at his target effectively sideways. In horse archery however, the prefered method is to shoot towards the enemies while pursuing or fleeing. Using a longbow in such manuevere, the archer will kept poking the horse making the animal felt annoyed. Everytime the bow touches the horse, the archer will loose precious time to reload and shoot. Using a longbow, horse archery's effectiveness is severely limited.
mi ez? a magyar íj tíz milliószor jobb mint ez az angoloknak ien bot íjuk van nekünk elötte kétszáz évvel azelött vissza csapó reflex ijjunk volt és nem csak előre tudtunk lőni de hátrafele is már bocsánat az angoloknak és éljem sokáig Magyarország & Hungary google compiler know I did not want to see write
@juki0h and a compound is better than a recurve, its about historical facts, so why should he use a modern bow? Also a 150 lbs longbow would shoot further than a 30 lbs recurve, and if you shoot with sights u can get about 5 arrow/min, where longbow archer shot 12/ min.
@juki0h thats a mongolian recurve bow and that show is historicly inaccurate, they also have slingshots in the series like thats historicly accurate, also a mongolian recurve would have been 80-100 lbs a longbow op to 180, so in what way is it better?
@0xxRawr0xx0 The correct term for the Mongolian bow is the recurved composite bow. The longbow can be fashioned into a recurved shape. What is shown here is a recurved longbow. The composite bow is made from combining wood, horn and animal sinew using fish glue. The Longbow is a self bow, carved from a single piece of yew wood. The recurved composite bow is more powerful than the longbow and could penetrate armor deeper and hit its target at a further distance than a longbow.
composite bows were made up to 80 lbs, and a longbow up to 180, so it isn't more powerfull and the arow won't travel further. Though if u have a longbow and a composite bow of the same draw weight the composite bow will shoot further.
@0xxRawr0xx0 I had seen a documentary where a test is conducted to compare the power of the composite bow and the longbow. Lukas Novotny uses a composite bow and a longbow on a piece metal plate that simulate plate armor. The arrow from the composite bow penetrates 2 inches deeper than the arrow from the longbow.
@juki0h It is a BBC production of Robin Hood. In this tv show, he used a recurved composite bow instead of a traditional longbow. There are stories that Robin Hood also took part in the crusades. In this tv show, he adopted the recurved bow which is the main weapon for Muslim archers and horse archers. He explains in episode 1 that it is more powerful than the traditional longbow to a farmer's son who is curious of the bow's unusual recurved shape.
It is fun to watch this guy because he has a rare skill set for the 21st century. He has an excellent seat and can use a bow sword and shield fairly well. Interesting little trade he has carved out for himself. A pleasure to watch him work. 14th c. resurgence of use of the bow, probably influenced by Mongol invasion of 13th century, Crusades, and pure military facility. We have English beating French chevaliers. Flemings do it, too. We've come a long way from the Bayeux Tapestry, folks.
It is very difficult to use a longbow on horseback. The head of the horse obstructed the archer from reposition himself. The longbow is a self bow and it wil snap during a full draw if its length is shortened. That's the recurved composite bow is invented. The recurved composite bow is actually more powerful and achieved further range than the longbow.
@MrLantean I would say that if the 2 bows have similar draw weight and the archer has the strength to use it, then the effectiveness would be quite similar, although the one with longer draw length would probably more accurate (crossbow has immense draw weight but very short draw length and shorter range).
It is also quite well-known that horse archery is best against a slow army on the move. It is not very good against an entrenched, fortified position with dismounted archers shooting back.
@Deadman1709 Normal wooden bows are difficult to be use on horseback. Thats why horse archers from Korea all the way to eastern Europe and North Africa used the recurved composite bow. This type of bow is compact enough to be used on horseback and it will not snapped during a full bow. The only mounted archers that I had seen using longbows are samurai horse archers. They developed techniques to use their longbows known as yumi effectively on horseback.
@Deadman1709 The longbow is a much simpler to construct compared to the composite bow. English longbow is made from carving a single piece of yew wood. Composite bow is made from wood, horn and animal sinew bound together with fish glue. Test shows that the composite bow is far superior weapon than the longbow. Arrows shot from the composite bow have deeper penetration than from the longbow.
In all honesty they were about the same. Both bows were capable of 150-200 lb draw, just the welsh bow had to be twice as tall as the composite to do it. Also, any kind of moisture or water damages the glue used to hold a composite bow together, one of the main reasons the english did not use composite bows, because yew wasn't susceptible to the weather as much. Composite bows were used in the drier european climates though.
@WitheringintheDark A longbow's range and penetration power depends on certain length and the type of wood used. In Western Europe, yew is the best wood. In Western Europe, composite bow technology is used for crossbow prods. Composite bows are commonly used in Russia and the Lower Balkans. The English were involved in the 100 Years War and the longbow was the weapon of choice for archers because it can be mass produced and it did a good job at defeating charging French knights.
Do you have a video of this or something? I'd love to see it. And what type/thickness of plate? How deep did it penetrate? Saying it is one thing, proving is another; I can't quote or use such info without a verifiable source.
@CHRISTIANSOLDIER101 if I am in ancient times and am going to dedicate myself to learning a ranged weapon I would learn to use the more powerful one, or else I would stick to swordplay, spears or throw knives or something else also better than crossbows, people just like them for the badass image they had not realizing its just a small bow tied to a piece of wood. I have to admit this, emergency situation if offered the choice I would go to crossbow because I have only used a bow a couple times.
Hmm I never thought before that the longbow can be so usable from horseback, I suppose you can't use full all-the-way-to-the-shoulder draw on it though when so used.
@HaNsWiDjAjA No need for full draw, they only used full draw for artillery, once targets were within closer range they made quicker short draws to loose arrows faster, the longbow was actually used a lot from horseback they usually slowed or stopped to shoot but this is rather extream and awesome to see them shooting while splashing across a river in fast pace combat, pretty epic!
@miles305678 That would deprive the arrow of the longbow's immense power though, I suppose anyone wearing any form of metal protection will not have to worry much about arrows shot from half-drawn longbows.
@HaNsWiDjAjA It would, but for horseback archery thats fine, also on the feild drawing 2/3 to half draw was fine because agaist heavy armor they shot the horses or stood behind their staves untill they got to close and then stormed with their archers picks and battle hammers.
B: Size and strength matter less than skill I know some people I could push to the ground easy and yet can draw a bow 3 times what I can watch some videos on it
C: Draw weights are measured in pounds, always have been and always will be, I could pretend to be smart using google converter to buts thats incorrect for archery
D: Defenses could not always be set up, just one factor, but archers were protected by knights also
@sewagedweller In ancient times king henry established that ranged warfar was the future (which lead to guns) and mass use of the bow could defeat even a superior army check out some battles like agincourt, or crecy, at least read on wikipedia if that the only source you have about the bone spurs and deformed arms archers had from massive draw weights.
@miles305678 and 20 knights of St. John and 800 guardsmen manged to beat muslim army of 30000. Warfare is about working with situation you are at hand and using everything you can for your advantage. Impact warfare played important role in military all the way till last century . Or you deaf and dumb ? We are talking about dark ages and hunting bows ,not war bows and later medieval tech .
@sewagedweller Okay I dismiss years of research and watching real historians, using numbers and letters and REAL test. Because some youtube know it all can qoute simple formula anyone can search on google, hey bet you don't know E=MC'2 :O or that water is H2O :O. And yes they could not kill high quility butted mail always, untill the design of the long bodkin designed for it, but even basic mail cost money, and few could afford high quility mail and armor, 90% of troops had no good armor.
@miles305678 energy = mass *speed of light squared ,which says there is relationship between energy and matter ? Half of degree im working on is chemistry deepshit , that's why i'm always talking about energy . DUHHH thank you captain obvious for telling us that knights were elite troops and good gear was expensive .
@sewagedweller And most important I am glad I know many other people throughout Europe and England or I would think because of you, that everyone there is a bunch of stuck up snob asses with no life but thinking they are superior, these people also like the USA and many people in it and we like them back, its people like you that make the world suck because your to stuck up your prejudice stereo typing you cannot make a valid argument without flinging random insults, I am done here, good day.
@miles305678 you just proved you are retard who knows not what he is talking about . Why bother being nice to retards who dont understand basic principles of physics or economy ?
@sewagedweller What does Economy have to do with archery? Once again, "Fat americans" and other randomly thrown in "I am in a fury and don't know what I am saying" comments, I use to be like you, always so angry and thinking I had some right to treat people badly, I took up healthy habbits, and studies of thing I like such as history and science, made me much happier, find what makes you smile. laugh and then convey goodness to others, you'll feel better about life, good day bro!
You claim people were huge and muscular during dark ages , without bothering to look at the farming output of that time .
Nahh im just really bored right now , in proses of transferring school . Its either teaching retards European history/basic physics or reading bio chem/calculus . Last two can get rather dull.
@sewagedweller Yes you are so superior, have a nice day captain you planet, maybe your new school has some books on history, at this point I think I will go talk to my English or French or Spanish friends, remind myself everyone over there is not so stuck up :) Night
@sewagedweller First two things I ever seen on archery, ancient egypt using bows agaist chainmail, both historical records and history channels demostration went right through it, second 12 bow snipers hold out for nearly a month agaist the roman empire making the general decide to burn the city down, bows have confired records as far back as 6,000BC but there are even signs of bow building as far back as 10,000 bc, also once again with the insults, is that the only way you know how to debate?
@miles305678 quality of mail , quality of iron used played a role, its safe to assume that dark age tech was better then what was used in ancient world . Easterners used composed bows , a more powerful but more expensive version of peasant bow composed of horn and wood glued together . Still even those weren't as great at killing knights as there are records of crusaders still fighting Saracens while looking like pincushions.
@sewagedweller I never said they could kill a armored man thats a clear no, chain mail is not armor its laced chain links usualy 3-4 layers thick, sometimes with plates added along the surface or higher quility riveting, it can be shot through with most bow because an arrow from even a light hunting bow still it fairly heavy and pointed and travels faster than a warbow arrow due to its weight, 250-300 feet per second, I have used a simple 35lbs hunting longbow, at 20 yards it slamed into...
@sewagedweller form wall with enough power to be heard across the store, if you have never noted a childs sling shot at 4-5lbs draw weight has enough force to knock a person out at 15 yards, tention is a stronger weapon than most people think, I agree that it could in no way kill a armored man without hitting a unprotected spot or the horse, but chain mail was different, it was designed to deflect blade damage not piercing force, its clear we will not agree so good day, sorry for the arguement
@miles305678 fuck fukedy fuck . I WAS TALKING ABOUT DARK AGES : WHAT ARMOR DID THEY USE IN DARK AGES ? WHAT BOWS MAINLAND PEASANTRY THAT WAS LEVIED INTO THE ARMIES USED ???
First arrow fired from a small bow has to cut though the iron and leather , that on its on that action will take most of its momentum .
@sewagedweller I was talking about the period of the video, but the dark ages come after the period when egyptian arrows cut straight through chainmail and light armor, and the power and speeds I qouted come from light hunting bows used in europe before the dark ages, I may be American but I am neither fat (178lbs at 6'2") nor stupid, I study history and advanced science daily just because I love them, also draw weight depends on wood not tech and I know a 70 year old thin guy who draws 90lbs...
@miles305678 and your inability to distinguish difference between composed bow and normal , medieval armor and dark age armor is astounding . Really stop using measurements i dont understand . Like i said lb means nothing to me . What advance science , there are bunch of different disciplines in science : molecular biology , psychology , physics , chemistry ? Talking about ignorance , science is no longer a single field .
And what makes you think you are the only one who reads books here ?
@sewagedweller I like Physics and astronomy, lbs is pounds, the standard measurement for archery draw weights and in the USA for everything else, composite bows if thats what you meant to say could be made in the woods, I have a couple friends who have done it, and the really high power bows in europe and england were not composite, and the guy who draws 90lbs is using a longbow, and longbows non composite were the bows peasants used, and what I am refering to, been into archery since I was 6...
@miles305678 And they are 'advance science' couse you are grad student doing research ? Yeah bows were given up in mainland Europe for crossbows : which were composed technology -> wood + bone + glue . Later steel was used . Earliest model were described by byzantine princess were drawn sitting down using legs .
And you are aware that in science around the world we use SI units for all measurements ? If you study physics you should have come across SI units million times .
@sewagedweller True Crossbows were chosen later on, but even then were used often in combination with bows because of the design of crossbows they transfered power badly and woulld not shoot as far without being 3x the draw weight meaning the need of cranks or pullies making the rate of shot about 1-bolt/6-arrows.
@miles305678 Improved crossbows fired much faster , lagging bolt or two behind the bow . Remember mechanics ? Bow takes less instantaneous power but you have to travel longer to input same amount of power? If crossbows were such poor weapon it wouldnt work well against plate/mail and be chosen over bow by all mainland armies . Milanese crossbowmen were elite force , and when not screwed over by froggies they were incredible dangerous .
@sewagedweller Crossbows never completely beat rate of fire and range at the same times, it had to choose, its true it did eventually reach much higher draw weights allowing killing of armored knights, but it originally was chosen the same reason as the gun, ease of training, early muskets got off about 1-2 shots a minute vs longbows 12-18, and were super inaccurate beyond 10-15 feet, but were chosen because anyone could point and click, though guns are far superior now days of course.
@sewagedweller False, crossbows never became anywhere near the bow in rate of fire, what it did posesses was maximum energy for armor penetration, so a give and take if you will.
@miles305678 get it in your tiny brain : what flings arrow into the air is a spring action of the bow . The amount of resistance that is behind the missle is determined by :
A. amount user put into it
B. Amount of energy bow can take before its bend to the maximum .
Wood is a material ? You need to have specific quality of wood to make bows , that is strong , flexible and works like a spring . English had that growing on their territory . I know this guy , WTF how this is an argument ?
@sewagedweller Haha I am the one always telling people the string does not give the power and the arrow goes on the inside side of the bow, I have been into archery since I was 6 and began to study it at 12, I know people and can send you videos of bow made from about any wood found in forest in America, Europe, England, that are full power bows. This is an arguement because you seem to believe that an arrow could not split right between the chains of chainmail as shown in endless demonstrations
@sewagedweller Warbows, hunting bows, survival bows, primitive bows from 4000bc, egyptian bows, from shows on History channel, National Geo site, and professional demos all of which I trust beyond a random youtube user, all of which confired that these were the weapons they actually used, correct in draw weights and design, along with countless youtube videos, and many other sources including college grad books from local library, I learn these FACTS from real historical documentation.
@miles305678 do your real facts include knights unable to get up after falling off their horses ? Mike loades ( guy in the video ) does a test : crossbow versus bow , crossbow is not far off . And mike is not a random youtube . Curiosity wise do you have degree in physics ?
@sewagedweller I know mikes work/research, I realize the crossbow eventually became better in most ways, as gun replaced both, what does knights not getting up have to do with bow penetrating chainmail, peasants not being able to draw a simple hunting bow as thats all that is needed to send a thin arrow between the chains as they bend or a large bow crushing them? Also if you REALLY have a degree congrats to you, I am spending my money to get a job as a pilot, but does not stop me from reading.
@miles305678 arrows dont go between the links they cut the links , that takes energy and a lot of energy. Well you all you do is talk about studying advance science but you never use terms related to physics . So i figured you're full of shit . Peasants can draw small bows , but again small BOWS HAVE SMALL RESISTANCE COMPARED TO THE LARGE BOWS !!!
well i hope you are better with flying then you are with science , or your passengers are capitally fucked .
@miles305678 there are bunch of youtube videos showing how to make mail , and how it works at the absorbing energy , i suggest educating yourself . Sharp tools for piercing armor weren't for getting in between the links they were for minimizing area of contact . Familiar with P = A/F ?
@miles305678 you are correct, chainmail was "luxury armor" and most of your troops made do with whatever they could find, depending on the army. A small bow will not penetrate mail, mail is in fact pretty strong, however they resorted to bashing/cleaving weapons to help defeat armor but ultimatly the sling was by far the most popular by peasants, and even many armies alike do to the ready availability of stones.
@mako7828 Yes in the Dark ages the sling was popular, this is talking about medieval times and the English whos favorite weapon was the bow, and true normal arrows could not defeat really good mail, thats why they used long bodkin tips which clashed between the chain spredding and shattering it, mail was made to defeat slashes because much of a slashes energy is in the sideways motion also, where as an arrow or stab or axe or spiked hammer all energy was straight on it.
@sewagedweller Not sure if you are kidding or not, but it is a myth that armored knights needed assistance to mount a horse. It is possible that some forms of armor were made far heavier for jousting competitions, however your average plate mail had to be functional, Which it was.
@mako7828 Also good facts about armor its true most armor was not really that heavy, and was usually only a few mm thick, and in fact historians say between 50-100 pounds, USA military gear between cloths/guns/comunitcation/ect weighs between 75-150 pounds just like people thinking swords were to heavy to barely lift when most swords were between 3-6 pounds, sure heavy to swing around but not to much for even the average person to lift, Good Day ;)
@miles305678 Good comparison with the modern soldier gear and medieval armor, however armor for the medieval ages was actually lighter yet, those of us playing in the modern medieval era build it and use it activly (please see SCA, haca, live steel), swords I disagree with, it varied largly by military, area, and available recourses, swords were often very heavy and to be honest, I am not even sure how people of such small stature, were able to wield them. Others yes as you mentioned were light
@mako7828 I love your knowledge of history, I do realize there were many heavy swords to meant for heavier combat, some broad swords weighing more even than the well known claymore, and yeah swords were mostly a high class weapon, though many archers of england did carry a short sword with knuckle bashers in case anyone got close enough, personaly though a bow was a low class weapon I prefer it, good for war and hunting as well, and its very classic, first bows are from 6,000-1,0000BC I believe
@miles305678 actually bows go back much farther, we have spear tips and possible arrow tips from 64000 years ago discovered in south africa, not much else is known obviously do to the nature of wood decomposition so probably much older until man discovered a pointed stick needed some help. The Otzi ice man re wrote history again dating to over 3000 bc carrying an arrow and bronze axe. I suspect, history will continue being re written as we discover more about how certain structures were built.
@mako7828 if you ever have a chance visit the Kremlin museum, god it is incredible with the most detailed and easy to understand advancment of weapons through history. Historians claim larger sizes than i believe to be true, example visiting that museum my gf was 53 maybe 110pnds, with the exception of one large suit of mail no clothing would have fit her until the late 18th century. This is confirmed in the book "seven roads to hell" by the 101 airborne at eagles nest.
@mako7828 I will visit there if I get a chance, also I find that amazing, 64,000 years O_O wow... Its obvious I love the bow, my favorites are the regular longbow like the English used and the Siper from either Turkey or Mongolia, though I do like close range weapons I like the regular straight sword but my favorites are the warhammer the little ones with a pointed back, and the Scimitar from Persia and other middle eastern countries of the past. Also sendind a Friend Request hope ya don't mind.
@miles305678 Sure not a problem, I love all sworts of weapons, have built several swords and knives, although someday I would like to make one from ore itself. I have not done it in awhile but I enjoy SCA heavy fighting, something to look into if you are trully interested in period items and those who enjoy the history as well. Friend request will be accepted. good lalkin to ya.
@miles305678 Its also important to take note that a sword as with many things, was a privalage weapon, more people often used clubs and axes, not necessarily becauses an axe was superior, but because it could have multiple uses as well, the same as a bow. (I am not including specialty axes or bows). Hides were the most common form of armor through the ages and worked decently at best, however the Kelts faught naked to avoid infection from clothing being pushed into a wound.
@mako7828 Fighting naked lol that one always gets me, I understand their reasons but really cannot see myself doing it, guess nobody would want to get to close to them haha, anyway have a nice day, going to walk around because today is yardsale day here and I wanna find a bow, sword or Sega Genesis :)
@miles305678 Longbow was nothing more but a big stick , you couldn't have same resistance if you make your bow composed or out of the metal with half of the size . Materials and technology do matter the most when it comes to weapon production .
@sewagedweller And I hope you know your insult about me being a pilot and killing people is plan stupid, you know they do not let you fly a plane unless you invest endless hours and endless money into lessons to teach your to pass endless test, its most the reason plane accidents by percentage are less likely than those of cars/trains/boats.
@miles305678 yeah 'cause 80% if flying is done by autopilot , ratio of planes to cars is tiny , so obviously more people die in cars then aircraft . But that still doesn't rule out human errors when it comes to crashing .
@sewagedweller Okay we could extend this arguement to planes and knights and archers and americans and a million other things but in the end we are both spamming this video, and niether will yeild because its obvious we hate eachothers guts like everyone living thousands of miles away who decided to get on the haternet and look at the comments section which is all about people condemming one another for opposing views on something totaly stupid that has been out of use for hundreds of years.
@sewagedweller I have my views and you yours there seem to be facts supporting both sides, so lets just drop it and save any civility we have left okay?
To grow muscles you need protein, dark ages peasant faced serious protein shortage . No no people weren't huge . Fail history and basic biology much ?
Nor great strength or courage was required from individual , non noble troops . Much of skirmishing was done behind shield walls, all fighting was done in a group .
Whatever you do , you are just another dumb american , no match for European intelligence . Well duhh anyone can move better if they are not fat and lazy .
@Khornedevotee Well the Mongolians and some other of the powers like them used these composite type bows. (They were pretty short) These bows have been known to shoot over a kilometer (there's a legend preceding that story.)
@sewagedweller: I see : /. But they're much faster than longbows and with a precise shot(on a weak spot that is) a shortbow is just as good as a longbow(but only if it hits right ofc otherwise it is,as you said,useless). That's what I guess : /.
@sewagedweller: I don't think you got my point: I meant that if a bow hit a weak spot, such as in the armpit, a knight would be seriously wounded. Right?! But if the arrow hit right on the chest if would probably bounce of or become stuck but it wouldn't make the knight to fall of his/her horse. Right?
@Khornedevotee lord of the rings is not real history . In point accuracy is hard against charging cavalry and even "weak" points were well protected as plate armor was developed . There were no female knights , stop learning your medieval history from WOW .
No you could turn a knight into a pincushion , which happened frequently during crusades , they still would remain relatively unhurt. ARROWS DO NOT HAVE MOMENTUM TO KNOCK PEOPLE DOWN ! FUCK !!!!
@sewagedweller joan of arc was a french female knight..... arrows could go right through PLATE armor if aimed at the right trajectory, and during the crusades plate armor hadnt really developed fully yet soo yea KNIGHTS WERE FUCKED WHEN A WALL OF ARROWS CAME AT THEM. CHAIN MAILS DESIGNED FOR HACKING AND SLASHING NOT STABBING
@2ndpadrummer Joan was a freak of history, one female in the army every few hundred years doesnt count . Mail works well against short bows , in addition knights of that time fought with kite shaped shields . So unless archers were shooting close by and using some sort of composed bow , not the standard peasant ones knights were well protected . Chain mail was made to take glancing hits not direct slashes .
Now go and copulate with your father inbred moron .
@sewagedweller Actually chain mail is designed to stop direct slashes, that's it's primary function. It didn't offer great protection against arrows/bolts but that's why before plate armour had fully developed knights carried large shields.
Still, cavalry wouldn't exist if the knights were knocked off by a shortbow, some arrow penetration myths are just unbelievable.
@ihaterobbie123 wtf are you all people talking about ? Mike Loads even explain in armor section that chain mail protected from glance hits but wouldn't withstand powerful blows . Watch the damn program already .
@sewagedweller Actually slashing is the exploitation of pressure (energy/area) energy is just the force with which you are pushed (something chainmail does NOT protect against). However by increasing the contact area of the blade's energy with your skin (decreasing the pressure) a cut is avoided.
Why don't you just try to cut (no, not chop) through a mail shirt and see how far you get.
When it comes to persistent stupidity, the words...they just escape me.
@ihaterobbie123 no fuck face . P= F/A , every piecing/slashing weapon uses small area to for energy transfer . Weak slashes wont cause significant damage ,as there is not enough force . Strong strikes will require commitment , strike take longer to perform , leaving you exposed hence used as finishing moves against armored opponent . Mail and padding serve to redistribute and absorb the energy . Powerful blow with slashing weapon like scimitar is as deadly as any other weapon.
@sewagedweller If you even begin to argue that armoured opponents can be taken down by a slash to an armoured spot then I have no more time for you. The only injuries you can sustain through armour either comes from a direct stab or blunt trauma (yes, a shock wave of ENERGY I know).
1. Small portion of blade contacting the target , this is when most of energy from contact is transferred , and deceleration occurs
2. Blade counties to slide as its pulled back , energy behind now is lower but now exposure to continuing moving , producing a cut . Unless additional energy is put into it continues rapidly to decelerate .
@sewagedweller Oh, you're familiar with it, then why am I explaining this to you?
I was dumbing it down for someone who wouldn't know what force is.
"Penetration depends on the energy" amidst larger, more important factors, yes.
Chain mail works by spreading the energy over a larger area to prevent penetration.
"weak slashes" you've never done a sword art, slashes aren't meant to be "strong" because you cannot slash through metal armour and flesh is easy to cut.
@sewagedweller Your so funny, Slashing was to slice, like slicing bread, works well against soft things like flesh, however if you want to penetrate something hard you stab or jab with thrusting motions, also bow can penetrate through 6 inches of solid oak, or another instance through an armored knights leg out the other side and into the horse, chain did little nothing against bows because the arrow went between the chain. To deflect arrows you need solid thick armor like full knights armor.
@miles305678 i suggest looking at the way mail was build , and the size of links , funny guy . Leg was protected by kite shield . In my understanding slashing is simply striking , where eventually blade would slide . Cutting bread and slashing bread are two different things.
@sewagedweller A 20lbs (lbs = pounds) practice bow can kill a deer at 30 yards, or about 25 metres, 45lbs+ and up can penetrate butted mail, most peasent hunting bows were around 50-70lbs at the time according all historians I have seen on the matter, the "Warbows" named properly as its what they used for war ranged from 90-180lbs and is recorded that archers of the english army had to use these and ended up with wider chest and misfigured arm structure as a result, study your history please.
@miles305678 if peasant bows were so great against armor then crossbows and long bows wouldn't have become popular . So why dont dumb cunts watch Mike Loads program on armor where he fucking explains it all .
@sewagedweller You realize these bows had draw weights between 90-180lbs? also I have watched about every show made on archery, read extensively into all facts on bow and shot one myself, btw the simple 50lbs hunting bow I shot still went through 4 inches of wood. You may know all but if you had watched anything on chain vs bow, or at least realized that that crossbow was only more powerful if its rate of fire around 7-1 vs longbow and was used due to ease of training. but you can name call! :O
@sewagedweller: When did I said that I am learning my medieval history from World of Warcraft? When did I say that there were female knights? Btw, HOW do YOU know, or anyone else for that matter, that there were no real female knights during the medieval age? Do you happen to be a scientist perhaps?
@sewagedweller: And the word ''FUCK!'' is highly unnesecary in this sentense. Oh and yeah I DO know that this comment is 6 months from being a year old so that makes it quite old so no need in responding bc of that however you can respond for another purpose. Cheers m8.
@sewagedweller: It is though as you say that short bows aren't useful at all? It also seems that you're saying that a short bow can't harm any armored man/woman if it hits a weak spot? Armors do have weak spots. I have never said anything about short bows being able to be as powerful as a long bow. However, on a weak spot, if the arrow hits there, it WILL have a great chance enough to penetrate that part of the armor and get stuck in your flesh. God bless you m8.
@Khornedevotee you will need at least 14+ luck roll to hit and penetrate the mail between the joints or hit the eye holes in the helment. Again there was no her , women werent allowed to take knighthood . And yes Joan of Arc wasnt a knight. To become a knight you had to be trained from age of seven until you were allowed to take your vows . Latter on long bows became completly inneficient against the armor as armor technology improved .
@sewagedweller: Ok. NOW I see. But again, I never SAID that there WERE female knights, hence the he/she part. I only meant that women had the potential to wear plate armor(however not as good on the move as a welltrained man) not that they were knights bc of that. Btw, no need in raging bc someone is missinformed : /. Highly unnecesary.
The weakpoints were at the joints, so unless the knight was flashing his sweaty pits at you or giving you a knightly mooning i don't think your arrows will find purchase there. Good luck getting one through the visor. Now, it wasn't Completely ineffective; the welsh longbow could pierce plate if the target is within 30 yards or so. But chances are if an armored knight is that close your going to be running as fast as you can in the other direction.
@WitheringintheDark: I agree. If one would just stand there when the knight/s is/are very close to you, like say 5 or 10 yards, it is of course as you said, you would obviously run in fear of the might of the cavalry hehe. Cheers and God bless you... MUCH! ;)
@sewagedweller In fact search "Bow vs Chainmail" here on youtube and watch BigBowBrum's video, yes it is not riveted mail but it is fairly thick or watch history for a show about it they show them often as said both in the video and in National Geo mail was designed to "Resist slashing attacks by dampening the blow over a large area" but could not resist piercing blows from pikes, arrows, or hard enough sword stabs, do some thinking about it, do some research, see you around! Good day! :)
A. materials and resistance varied , cheap peasant bows lacked the resistance .
Composed weapons were expensive , and required greater strength to operate .
B. Distance played the role in armor piercing , in close up small bows have greater potential for penetration , but this is when you get lance charge in your face .
C. Indeed , mail was designed to protect from weak blows , strong ones you had to doge or block
@sewagedweller and a bow maintains greatest power after it has traveled past about 20 feet due to the archers paradox, (the arrow wiggling at first flight due to the force place on the back of it by the string of the bow) so as for getting lanced while trying to shoot? Archers also hide behind large staves and would shoot heavy armor knights off the horses then swarm them with archers picks and battle hammers.
@miles305678 arrows wont get energy by magic (CONSERVATION OF ENERGY AND MATTER ANYONE ?) , everything that it got comes from bow staff trying to return to its original form shaking off energy that was used to deform it . Archer paradox is about arrow movement not getting power from nothingness . What you probably thinking off is acceleration due to gravity .
@miles305678 nice honesty in that video they are using longbows = larger resistance = larger potential energy. And fuck sake start using civilized units of SI ,wtf is lb bullshit ?
And please dont compare bows you used in modern day with benefit of our modern size , to bows peasants used in dark ages with their puny bodies .
@sewagedweller Oh and Peasants were farmers or workers, even if they were puny they could pull the bows, also it was required by law that all civilians in england practice archery for at least 2 hours after church on sundays, also if you ever watch any realistic documentation of ancient combat these guys were not puny, just like the underfed soldiers of the world wars/modern wars they had serious muscle, climb jump and run better than most people now days can. But lemme guess a fan of knights?
@MiracleKD18: So they weren't both cavalry and infantry? Did bowmen count as infantry or artillery or both?! I am quite ignorant on that particular subject. Or was the catapults the only artillery?
@CHRISTIANSOLDIER101 that is true, but even short range, I would rather get off 7 arrows than one bolt, even for the fast one I would rather have 10 arrows to 6 bolts. Crossbows were also heavy, and crossbow men less agile than archers.
Correct but thats only within about 15 feet, and does it matter when to have the same range and power over range as the bow the crossbow needed a crank, and therefor could only shoot 1 bolt to 7 archers arrows? Even the fastest crossbow was half as fast, search "Longbow vs Crossbow" or watch some shows on it, this is why in the list of ADVANCES in range weapon technology goes "Thrown, Sling, Atlatl, Bow, Gun." Plus off the field, the crossbow took more mantinance and was harder to build.
Using a longbow on horseback, the archer is able to shoot at his target effectively sideways. In horse archery however, the prefered method is to shoot towards the enemies while pursuing or fleeing. Using a longbow in such manuevere, the archer will kept poking the horse making the animal felt annoyed. Everytime the bow touches the horse, the archer will loose precious time to reload and shoot. Using a longbow, horse archery's effectiveness is severely limited.
MrLantean 1 month ago
the best of KASSAI LAJOS from HUNGARY !!!!!!!!!!!
HUN450HUN 2 months ago
Medieval2 Total War : y u no have English longbow cavalry?
leeham991 3 months ago 3
I have it is
ShamomahS 1 month ago
sıpahiler
harun499 5 months ago
mongolian style is more efficient and manuverable for a horseback archer anyways with equal draw weight it is more powerful
l3054 5 months ago
@l3054 Aye. Same goes for Japanese Yabusame
DragonoftheEastblu 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
mi ez? a magyar íj tíz milliószor jobb mint ez az angoloknak ien bot íjuk van nekünk elötte kétszáz évvel azelött vissza csapó reflex ijjunk volt és nem csak előre tudtunk lőni de hátrafele is már bocsánat az angoloknak és éljem sokáig Magyarország & Hungary google compiler know I did not want to see write
TheMetin256 6 months ago
Horses are wonderful animals, never ever thought about it that way.. look how they have served mankind for, how long?
MooseHunter911 7 months ago
recurve is better
juki0h 8 months ago
@juki0h and a compound is better than a recurve, its about historical facts, so why should he use a modern bow? Also a 150 lbs longbow would shoot further than a 30 lbs recurve, and if you shoot with sights u can get about 5 arrow/min, where longbow archer shot 12/ min.
0xxRawr0xx0 8 months ago
@0xxRawr0xx0 then why did robin hood in the tv show hood use a recurve bow? ask yourself that
juki0h 8 months ago
@juki0h thats a mongolian recurve bow and that show is historicly inaccurate, they also have slingshots in the series like thats historicly accurate, also a mongolian recurve would have been 80-100 lbs a longbow op to 180, so in what way is it better?
0xxRawr0xx0 8 months ago
@0xxRawr0xx0 google it, lazy
juki0h 8 months ago
@juki0h google what? dumbass.
0xxRawr0xx0 8 months ago
@0xxRawr0xx0 cant read i see
juki0h 8 months ago
@0xxRawr0xx0 The correct term for the Mongolian bow is the recurved composite bow. The longbow can be fashioned into a recurved shape. What is shown here is a recurved longbow. The composite bow is made from combining wood, horn and animal sinew using fish glue. The Longbow is a self bow, carved from a single piece of yew wood. The recurved composite bow is more powerful than the longbow and could penetrate armor deeper and hit its target at a further distance than a longbow.
MrLantean 7 months ago
@MrLantean Hi,
composite bows were made up to 80 lbs, and a longbow up to 180, so it isn't more powerfull and the arow won't travel further. Though if u have a longbow and a composite bow of the same draw weight the composite bow will shoot further.
0xxRawr0xx0 7 months ago
@0xxRawr0xx0 I had seen a documentary where a test is conducted to compare the power of the composite bow and the longbow. Lukas Novotny uses a composite bow and a longbow on a piece metal plate that simulate plate armor. The arrow from the composite bow penetrates 2 inches deeper than the arrow from the longbow.
MrLantean 7 months ago
@juki0h It is a BBC production of Robin Hood. In this tv show, he used a recurved composite bow instead of a traditional longbow. There are stories that Robin Hood also took part in the crusades. In this tv show, he adopted the recurved bow which is the main weapon for Muslim archers and horse archers. He explains in episode 1 that it is more powerful than the traditional longbow to a farmer's son who is curious of the bow's unusual recurved shape.
MrLantean 7 months ago
@MrLantean i rest my case....
juki0h 7 months ago
They should put this guy as an expert for Deadliest Warrior.
DavidUmstattd 10 months ago
It is fun to watch this guy because he has a rare skill set for the 21st century. He has an excellent seat and can use a bow sword and shield fairly well. Interesting little trade he has carved out for himself. A pleasure to watch him work. 14th c. resurgence of use of the bow, probably influenced by Mongol invasion of 13th century, Crusades, and pure military facility. We have English beating French chevaliers. Flemings do it, too. We've come a long way from the Bayeux Tapestry, folks.
lebarosky 11 months ago
It is very difficult to use a longbow on horseback. The head of the horse obstructed the archer from reposition himself. The longbow is a self bow and it wil snap during a full draw if its length is shortened. That's the recurved composite bow is invented. The recurved composite bow is actually more powerful and achieved further range than the longbow.
MrLantean 1 year ago
@MrLantean I would say that if the 2 bows have similar draw weight and the archer has the strength to use it, then the effectiveness would be quite similar, although the one with longer draw length would probably more accurate (crossbow has immense draw weight but very short draw length and shorter range).
It is also quite well-known that horse archery is best against a slow army on the move. It is not very good against an entrenched, fortified position with dismounted archers shooting back.
Deadman1709 1 year ago
@Deadman1709 Normal wooden bows are difficult to be use on horseback. Thats why horse archers from Korea all the way to eastern Europe and North Africa used the recurved composite bow. This type of bow is compact enough to be used on horseback and it will not snapped during a full bow. The only mounted archers that I had seen using longbows are samurai horse archers. They developed techniques to use their longbows known as yumi effectively on horseback.
MrLantean 1 year ago
@Deadman1709 The longbow is a much simpler to construct compared to the composite bow. English longbow is made from carving a single piece of yew wood. Composite bow is made from wood, horn and animal sinew bound together with fish glue. Test shows that the composite bow is far superior weapon than the longbow. Arrows shot from the composite bow have deeper penetration than from the longbow.
MrLantean 1 year ago
@MrLantean
In all honesty they were about the same. Both bows were capable of 150-200 lb draw, just the welsh bow had to be twice as tall as the composite to do it. Also, any kind of moisture or water damages the glue used to hold a composite bow together, one of the main reasons the english did not use composite bows, because yew wasn't susceptible to the weather as much. Composite bows were used in the drier european climates though.
WitheringintheDark 10 months ago
@WitheringintheDark A longbow's range and penetration power depends on certain length and the type of wood used. In Western Europe, yew is the best wood. In Western Europe, composite bow technology is used for crossbow prods. Composite bows are commonly used in Russia and the Lower Balkans. The English were involved in the 100 Years War and the longbow was the weapon of choice for archers because it can be mass produced and it did a good job at defeating charging French knights.
MrLantean 10 months ago
@WitheringintheDark A 90 to 120 lb longbow with a bodkin tip will go though plate at 50 to75 meters.
chaos0691 10 months ago
@chaos0691
Do you have a video of this or something? I'd love to see it. And what type/thickness of plate? How deep did it penetrate? Saying it is one thing, proving is another; I can't quote or use such info without a verifiable source.
WitheringintheDark 10 months ago
@chaos0691 a 150 lbs bow would only penetrate quality plate at 20 yards.., it might make a hole at 50-75 but it won't be deadly..
0xxRawr0xx0 9 months ago
@0xxRawr0xx0 good thing the english archers pulled 180 lbs
aaronvespro 8 months ago
@aaronvespro most of em pulled 150, though i don't remember the vid anymore, i'm pretty sure u can't pull a 15-180 lbs longbow from horseback.
0xxRawr0xx0 8 months ago
@CHRISTIANSOLDIER101 if I am in ancient times and am going to dedicate myself to learning a ranged weapon I would learn to use the more powerful one, or else I would stick to swordplay, spears or throw knives or something else also better than crossbows, people just like them for the badass image they had not realizing its just a small bow tied to a piece of wood. I have to admit this, emergency situation if offered the choice I would go to crossbow because I have only used a bow a couple times.
miles305678 1 year ago
Hmm I never thought before that the longbow can be so usable from horseback, I suppose you can't use full all-the-way-to-the-shoulder draw on it though when so used.
HaNsWiDjAjA 1 year ago
@HaNsWiDjAjA No need for full draw, they only used full draw for artillery, once targets were within closer range they made quicker short draws to loose arrows faster, the longbow was actually used a lot from horseback they usually slowed or stopped to shoot but this is rather extream and awesome to see them shooting while splashing across a river in fast pace combat, pretty epic!
Good day :D
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 That would deprive the arrow of the longbow's immense power though, I suppose anyone wearing any form of metal protection will not have to worry much about arrows shot from half-drawn longbows.
HaNsWiDjAjA 1 year ago
@HaNsWiDjAjA It would, but for horseback archery thats fine, also on the feild drawing 2/3 to half draw was fine because agaist heavy armor they shot the horses or stood behind their staves untill they got to close and then stormed with their archers picks and battle hammers.
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 Ok it's officially established that you are a fucking dumb arse .
a. we are not talking about English war bows , were ARE talking about mainland small hunting bows .
b. read Thomas Malthus , small peasants , little muscles as not enough food .
c. Use SI units douchebag . As units used in science : meters , grams etc .
d. Putting up defenses required time and preparation , army on the march wouldn't have such luxury.
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller
A: English longbows/warbows were all they used
B: Size and strength matter less than skill I know some people I could push to the ground easy and yet can draw a bow 3 times what I can watch some videos on it
C: Draw weights are measured in pounds, always have been and always will be, I could pretend to be smart using google converter to buts thats incorrect for archery
D: Defenses could not always be set up, just one factor, but archers were protected by knights also
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 we are talking about dark ages and mainland Europe . As it is established war bows were armor piercing weapons .
You can have all the skill in the world and strength of a five year old , you'll never fire a bow in your life . Hello back to physics and energy ?!
Peasants were expendable , knights were used as offensive force for shock warfare not babysitting . A new idea that emerged during dark ages .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller In ancient times king henry established that ranged warfar was the future (which lead to guns) and mass use of the bow could defeat even a superior army check out some battles like agincourt, or crecy, at least read on wikipedia if that the only source you have about the bone spurs and deformed arms archers had from massive draw weights.
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 and 20 knights of St. John and 800 guardsmen manged to beat muslim army of 30000. Warfare is about working with situation you are at hand and using everything you can for your advantage. Impact warfare played important role in military all the way till last century . Or you deaf and dumb ? We are talking about dark ages and hunting bows ,not war bows and later medieval tech .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller Okay I dismiss years of research and watching real historians, using numbers and letters and REAL test. Because some youtube know it all can qoute simple formula anyone can search on google, hey bet you don't know E=MC'2 :O or that water is H2O :O. And yes they could not kill high quility butted mail always, untill the design of the long bodkin designed for it, but even basic mail cost money, and few could afford high quility mail and armor, 90% of troops had no good armor.
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 energy = mass *speed of light squared ,which says there is relationship between energy and matter ? Half of degree im working on is chemistry deepshit , that's why i'm always talking about energy . DUHHH thank you captain obvious for telling us that knights were elite troops and good gear was expensive .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller And most important I am glad I know many other people throughout Europe and England or I would think because of you, that everyone there is a bunch of stuck up snob asses with no life but thinking they are superior, these people also like the USA and many people in it and we like them back, its people like you that make the world suck because your to stuck up your prejudice stereo typing you cannot make a valid argument without flinging random insults, I am done here, good day.
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 you just proved you are retard who knows not what he is talking about . Why bother being nice to retards who dont understand basic principles of physics or economy ?
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller What does Economy have to do with archery? Once again, "Fat americans" and other randomly thrown in "I am in a fury and don't know what I am saying" comments, I use to be like you, always so angry and thinking I had some right to treat people badly, I took up healthy habbits, and studies of thing I like such as history and science, made me much happier, find what makes you smile. laugh and then convey goodness to others, you'll feel better about life, good day bro!
USA
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678
You claim people were huge and muscular during dark ages , without bothering to look at the farming output of that time .
Nahh im just really bored right now , in proses of transferring school . Its either teaching retards European history/basic physics or reading bio chem/calculus . Last two can get rather dull.
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller Yes you are so superior, have a nice day captain you planet, maybe your new school has some books on history, at this point I think I will go talk to my English or French or Spanish friends, remind myself everyone over there is not so stuck up :) Night
miles305678 1 year ago
@sewagedweller First two things I ever seen on archery, ancient egypt using bows agaist chainmail, both historical records and history channels demostration went right through it, second 12 bow snipers hold out for nearly a month agaist the roman empire making the general decide to burn the city down, bows have confired records as far back as 6,000BC but there are even signs of bow building as far back as 10,000 bc, also once again with the insults, is that the only way you know how to debate?
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 quality of mail , quality of iron used played a role, its safe to assume that dark age tech was better then what was used in ancient world . Easterners used composed bows , a more powerful but more expensive version of peasant bow composed of horn and wood glued together . Still even those weren't as great at killing knights as there are records of crusaders still fighting Saracens while looking like pincushions.
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller I never said they could kill a armored man thats a clear no, chain mail is not armor its laced chain links usualy 3-4 layers thick, sometimes with plates added along the surface or higher quility riveting, it can be shot through with most bow because an arrow from even a light hunting bow still it fairly heavy and pointed and travels faster than a warbow arrow due to its weight, 250-300 feet per second, I have used a simple 35lbs hunting longbow, at 20 yards it slamed into...
miles305678 1 year ago
@sewagedweller form wall with enough power to be heard across the store, if you have never noted a childs sling shot at 4-5lbs draw weight has enough force to knock a person out at 15 yards, tention is a stronger weapon than most people think, I agree that it could in no way kill a armored man without hitting a unprotected spot or the horse, but chain mail was different, it was designed to deflect blade damage not piercing force, its clear we will not agree so good day, sorry for the arguement
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 fuck fukedy fuck . I WAS TALKING ABOUT DARK AGES : WHAT ARMOR DID THEY USE IN DARK AGES ? WHAT BOWS MAINLAND PEASANTRY THAT WAS LEVIED INTO THE ARMIES USED ???
First arrow fired from a small bow has to cut though the iron and leather , that on its on that action will take most of its momentum .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller I was talking about the period of the video, but the dark ages come after the period when egyptian arrows cut straight through chainmail and light armor, and the power and speeds I qouted come from light hunting bows used in europe before the dark ages, I may be American but I am neither fat (178lbs at 6'2") nor stupid, I study history and advanced science daily just because I love them, also draw weight depends on wood not tech and I know a 70 year old thin guy who draws 90lbs...
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 and your inability to distinguish difference between composed bow and normal , medieval armor and dark age armor is astounding . Really stop using measurements i dont understand . Like i said lb means nothing to me . What advance science , there are bunch of different disciplines in science : molecular biology , psychology , physics , chemistry ? Talking about ignorance , science is no longer a single field .
And what makes you think you are the only one who reads books here ?
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller I like Physics and astronomy, lbs is pounds, the standard measurement for archery draw weights and in the USA for everything else, composite bows if thats what you meant to say could be made in the woods, I have a couple friends who have done it, and the really high power bows in europe and england were not composite, and the guy who draws 90lbs is using a longbow, and longbows non composite were the bows peasants used, and what I am refering to, been into archery since I was 6...
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 And they are 'advance science' couse you are grad student doing research ? Yeah bows were given up in mainland Europe for crossbows : which were composed technology -> wood + bone + glue . Later steel was used . Earliest model were described by byzantine princess were drawn sitting down using legs .
And you are aware that in science around the world we use SI units for all measurements ? If you study physics you should have come across SI units million times .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller True Crossbows were chosen later on, but even then were used often in combination with bows because of the design of crossbows they transfered power badly and woulld not shoot as far without being 3x the draw weight meaning the need of cranks or pullies making the rate of shot about 1-bolt/6-arrows.
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 Improved crossbows fired much faster , lagging bolt or two behind the bow . Remember mechanics ? Bow takes less instantaneous power but you have to travel longer to input same amount of power? If crossbows were such poor weapon it wouldnt work well against plate/mail and be chosen over bow by all mainland armies . Milanese crossbowmen were elite force , and when not screwed over by froggies they were incredible dangerous .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller Crossbows never completely beat rate of fire and range at the same times, it had to choose, its true it did eventually reach much higher draw weights allowing killing of armored knights, but it originally was chosen the same reason as the gun, ease of training, early muskets got off about 1-2 shots a minute vs longbows 12-18, and were super inaccurate beyond 10-15 feet, but were chosen because anyone could point and click, though guns are far superior now days of course.
miles305678 1 year ago
@sewagedweller False, crossbows never became anywhere near the bow in rate of fire, what it did posesses was maximum energy for armor penetration, so a give and take if you will.
mako7828 1 year ago
@mako7828 Thats what I said
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 get it in your tiny brain : what flings arrow into the air is a spring action of the bow . The amount of resistance that is behind the missle is determined by :
A. amount user put into it
B. Amount of energy bow can take before its bend to the maximum .
Wood is a material ? You need to have specific quality of wood to make bows , that is strong , flexible and works like a spring . English had that growing on their territory . I know this guy , WTF how this is an argument ?
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller Haha I am the one always telling people the string does not give the power and the arrow goes on the inside side of the bow, I have been into archery since I was 6 and began to study it at 12, I know people and can send you videos of bow made from about any wood found in forest in America, Europe, England, that are full power bows. This is an arguement because you seem to believe that an arrow could not split right between the chains of chainmail as shown in endless demonstrations
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 and those bows , by any chance are around same size of English warbows ?
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller Warbows, hunting bows, survival bows, primitive bows from 4000bc, egyptian bows, from shows on History channel, National Geo site, and professional demos all of which I trust beyond a random youtube user, all of which confired that these were the weapons they actually used, correct in draw weights and design, along with countless youtube videos, and many other sources including college grad books from local library, I learn these FACTS from real historical documentation.
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 do your real facts include knights unable to get up after falling off their horses ? Mike loades ( guy in the video ) does a test : crossbow versus bow , crossbow is not far off . And mike is not a random youtube . Curiosity wise do you have degree in physics ?
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller I know mikes work/research, I realize the crossbow eventually became better in most ways, as gun replaced both, what does knights not getting up have to do with bow penetrating chainmail, peasants not being able to draw a simple hunting bow as thats all that is needed to send a thin arrow between the chains as they bend or a large bow crushing them? Also if you REALLY have a degree congrats to you, I am spending my money to get a job as a pilot, but does not stop me from reading.
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 arrows dont go between the links they cut the links , that takes energy and a lot of energy. Well you all you do is talk about studying advance science but you never use terms related to physics . So i figured you're full of shit . Peasants can draw small bows , but again small BOWS HAVE SMALL RESISTANCE COMPARED TO THE LARGE BOWS !!!
well i hope you are better with flying then you are with science , or your passengers are capitally fucked .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@miles305678 there are bunch of youtube videos showing how to make mail , and how it works at the absorbing energy , i suggest educating yourself . Sharp tools for piercing armor weren't for getting in between the links they were for minimizing area of contact . Familiar with P = A/F ?
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@miles305678 you are correct, chainmail was "luxury armor" and most of your troops made do with whatever they could find, depending on the army. A small bow will not penetrate mail, mail is in fact pretty strong, however they resorted to bashing/cleaving weapons to help defeat armor but ultimatly the sling was by far the most popular by peasants, and even many armies alike do to the ready availability of stones.
mako7828 1 year ago
@mako7828 Yes in the Dark ages the sling was popular, this is talking about medieval times and the English whos favorite weapon was the bow, and true normal arrows could not defeat really good mail, thats why they used long bodkin tips which clashed between the chain spredding and shattering it, mail was made to defeat slashes because much of a slashes energy is in the sideways motion also, where as an arrow or stab or axe or spiked hammer all energy was straight on it.
miles305678 1 year ago
@sewagedweller Not sure if you are kidding or not, but it is a myth that armored knights needed assistance to mount a horse. It is possible that some forms of armor were made far heavier for jousting competitions, however your average plate mail had to be functional, Which it was.
mako7828 1 year ago
@mako7828 Also good facts about armor its true most armor was not really that heavy, and was usually only a few mm thick, and in fact historians say between 50-100 pounds, USA military gear between cloths/guns/comunitcation/ect weighs between 75-150 pounds just like people thinking swords were to heavy to barely lift when most swords were between 3-6 pounds, sure heavy to swing around but not to much for even the average person to lift, Good Day ;)
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 Good comparison with the modern soldier gear and medieval armor, however armor for the medieval ages was actually lighter yet, those of us playing in the modern medieval era build it and use it activly (please see SCA, haca, live steel), swords I disagree with, it varied largly by military, area, and available recourses, swords were often very heavy and to be honest, I am not even sure how people of such small stature, were able to wield them. Others yes as you mentioned were light
mako7828 1 year ago
@mako7828 I love your knowledge of history, I do realize there were many heavy swords to meant for heavier combat, some broad swords weighing more even than the well known claymore, and yeah swords were mostly a high class weapon, though many archers of england did carry a short sword with knuckle bashers in case anyone got close enough, personaly though a bow was a low class weapon I prefer it, good for war and hunting as well, and its very classic, first bows are from 6,000-1,0000BC I believe
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 actually bows go back much farther, we have spear tips and possible arrow tips from 64000 years ago discovered in south africa, not much else is known obviously do to the nature of wood decomposition so probably much older until man discovered a pointed stick needed some help. The Otzi ice man re wrote history again dating to over 3000 bc carrying an arrow and bronze axe. I suspect, history will continue being re written as we discover more about how certain structures were built.
mako7828 1 year ago
@mako7828 if you ever have a chance visit the Kremlin museum, god it is incredible with the most detailed and easy to understand advancment of weapons through history. Historians claim larger sizes than i believe to be true, example visiting that museum my gf was 53 maybe 110pnds, with the exception of one large suit of mail no clothing would have fit her until the late 18th century. This is confirmed in the book "seven roads to hell" by the 101 airborne at eagles nest.
mako7828 1 year ago
@mako7828 I will visit there if I get a chance, also I find that amazing, 64,000 years O_O wow... Its obvious I love the bow, my favorites are the regular longbow like the English used and the Siper from either Turkey or Mongolia, though I do like close range weapons I like the regular straight sword but my favorites are the warhammer the little ones with a pointed back, and the Scimitar from Persia and other middle eastern countries of the past. Also sendind a Friend Request hope ya don't mind.
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 Sure not a problem, I love all sworts of weapons, have built several swords and knives, although someday I would like to make one from ore itself. I have not done it in awhile but I enjoy SCA heavy fighting, something to look into if you are trully interested in period items and those who enjoy the history as well. Friend request will be accepted. good lalkin to ya.
mako7828 1 year ago
@miles305678 Its also important to take note that a sword as with many things, was a privalage weapon, more people often used clubs and axes, not necessarily becauses an axe was superior, but because it could have multiple uses as well, the same as a bow. (I am not including specialty axes or bows). Hides were the most common form of armor through the ages and worked decently at best, however the Kelts faught naked to avoid infection from clothing being pushed into a wound.
mako7828 1 year ago
@mako7828 Fighting naked lol that one always gets me, I understand their reasons but really cannot see myself doing it, guess nobody would want to get to close to them haha, anyway have a nice day, going to walk around because today is yardsale day here and I wanna find a bow, sword or Sega Genesis :)
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 meant 10,000bc
miles305678 1 year ago
@sewagedweller And does so after asking big muscle guys who cannot half draw it btw
miles305678 1 year ago
@sewagedweller And "fuck fukedy fuck" makes your arguement better in no way... wrong or right it just makes you look pissed off and ignorant.
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 Longbow was nothing more but a big stick , you couldn't have same resistance if you make your bow composed or out of the metal with half of the size . Materials and technology do matter the most when it comes to weapon production .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller And I hope you know your insult about me being a pilot and killing people is plan stupid, you know they do not let you fly a plane unless you invest endless hours and endless money into lessons to teach your to pass endless test, its most the reason plane accidents by percentage are less likely than those of cars/trains/boats.
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 yeah 'cause 80% if flying is done by autopilot , ratio of planes to cars is tiny , so obviously more people die in cars then aircraft . But that still doesn't rule out human errors when it comes to crashing .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller Okay we could extend this arguement to planes and knights and archers and americans and a million other things but in the end we are both spamming this video, and niether will yeild because its obvious we hate eachothers guts like everyone living thousands of miles away who decided to get on the haternet and look at the comments section which is all about people condemming one another for opposing views on something totaly stupid that has been out of use for hundreds of years.
miles305678 1 year ago
@sewagedweller I have my views and you yours there seem to be facts supporting both sides, so lets just drop it and save any civility we have left okay?
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 fair enough .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@miles305678
To grow muscles you need protein, dark ages peasant faced serious protein shortage . No no people weren't huge . Fail history and basic biology much ?
Nor great strength or courage was required from individual , non noble troops . Much of skirmishing was done behind shield walls, all fighting was done in a group .
Whatever you do , you are just another dumb american , no match for European intelligence . Well duhh anyone can move better if they are not fat and lazy .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@CHRISTIANSOLDIER101: A shortbow should do nice if cavalry are close enough to their targets. Right?! :)
Khornedevotee 1 year ago
@Khornedevotee Well the Mongolians and some other of the powers like them used these composite type bows. (They were pretty short) These bows have been known to shoot over a kilometer (there's a legend preceding that story.)
Drakewolfen 1 year ago
@Khornedevotee short bows are useless against armor
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller: I see : /. But they're much faster than longbows and with a precise shot(on a weak spot that is) a shortbow is just as good as a longbow(but only if it hits right ofc otherwise it is,as you said,useless). That's what I guess : /.
Khornedevotee 1 year ago
@Khornedevotee short bow is smaller and store much less energy , it never can be as powerful as long bow . Its basic physics .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller: I don't think you got my point: I meant that if a bow hit a weak spot, such as in the armpit, a knight would be seriously wounded. Right?! But if the arrow hit right on the chest if would probably bounce of or become stuck but it wouldn't make the knight to fall of his/her horse. Right?
Khornedevotee 1 year ago
@sewagedweller: Another weak spot could be the throat.
Khornedevotee 1 year ago
@Khornedevotee lord of the rings is not real history . In point accuracy is hard against charging cavalry and even "weak" points were well protected as plate armor was developed . There were no female knights , stop learning your medieval history from WOW .
No you could turn a knight into a pincushion , which happened frequently during crusades , they still would remain relatively unhurt. ARROWS DO NOT HAVE MOMENTUM TO KNOCK PEOPLE DOWN ! FUCK !!!!
sewagedweller 1 year ago 2
@sewagedweller joan of arc was a french female knight..... arrows could go right through PLATE armor if aimed at the right trajectory, and during the crusades plate armor hadnt really developed fully yet soo yea KNIGHTS WERE FUCKED WHEN A WALL OF ARROWS CAME AT THEM. CHAIN MAILS DESIGNED FOR HACKING AND SLASHING NOT STABBING
2ndpadrummer 1 year ago
@2ndpadrummer Joan was a freak of history, one female in the army every few hundred years doesnt count . Mail works well against short bows , in addition knights of that time fought with kite shaped shields . So unless archers were shooting close by and using some sort of composed bow , not the standard peasant ones knights were well protected . Chain mail was made to take glancing hits not direct slashes .
Now go and copulate with your father inbred moron .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller Actually chain mail is designed to stop direct slashes, that's it's primary function. It didn't offer great protection against arrows/bolts but that's why before plate armour had fully developed knights carried large shields.
Still, cavalry wouldn't exist if the knights were knocked off by a shortbow, some arrow penetration myths are just unbelievable.
ihaterobbie123 1 year ago
@ihaterobbie123 wtf are you all people talking about ? Mike Loads even explain in armor section that chain mail protected from glance hits but wouldn't withstand powerful blows . Watch the damn program already .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller "slashes"
It doesn't hurt to read.
ihaterobbie123 1 year ago
@ihaterobbie123 doesn't hurt to think , there is a difference between slashes and involved force .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller It's protecting against the slashing motion, I never said anything about energy.
Jesus, can't you interpret what people say? All you're doing is knocking down arguments I never made (scarecrows).
ihaterobbie123 1 year ago
@ihaterobbie123 What is behind slashing motion ? Energy . I see we have another physics failure .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller Actually slashing is the exploitation of pressure (energy/area) energy is just the force with which you are pushed (something chainmail does NOT protect against). However by increasing the contact area of the blade's energy with your skin (decreasing the pressure) a cut is avoided.
Why don't you just try to cut (no, not chop) through a mail shirt and see how far you get.
When it comes to persistent stupidity, the words...they just escape me.
ihaterobbie123 1 year ago
@ihaterobbie123 no fuck face . P= F/A , every piecing/slashing weapon uses small area to for energy transfer . Weak slashes wont cause significant damage ,as there is not enough force . Strong strikes will require commitment , strike take longer to perform , leaving you exposed hence used as finishing moves against armored opponent . Mail and padding serve to redistribute and absorb the energy . Powerful blow with slashing weapon like scimitar is as deadly as any other weapon.
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller If you even begin to argue that armoured opponents can be taken down by a slash to an armoured spot then I have no more time for you. The only injuries you can sustain through armour either comes from a direct stab or blunt trauma (yes, a shock wave of ENERGY I know).
ihaterobbie123 1 year ago
@ihaterobbie123 a slash would consist of :
1. Small portion of blade contacting the target , this is when most of energy from contact is transferred , and deceleration occurs
2. Blade counties to slide as its pulled back , energy behind now is lower but now exposure to continuing moving , producing a cut . Unless additional energy is put into it continues rapidly to decelerate .
Penetration depends on the energy .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller Oh, you're familiar with it, then why am I explaining this to you?
I was dumbing it down for someone who wouldn't know what force is.
"Penetration depends on the energy" amidst larger, more important factors, yes.
Chain mail works by spreading the energy over a larger area to prevent penetration.
"weak slashes" you've never done a sword art, slashes aren't meant to be "strong" because you cannot slash through metal armour and flesh is easy to cut.
ihaterobbie123 1 year ago
@sewagedweller Now get your facts straight before trying to correct somebody who studies history and science with a passion.
miles305678 1 year ago
@sewagedweller Your so funny, Slashing was to slice, like slicing bread, works well against soft things like flesh, however if you want to penetrate something hard you stab or jab with thrusting motions, also bow can penetrate through 6 inches of solid oak, or another instance through an armored knights leg out the other side and into the horse, chain did little nothing against bows because the arrow went between the chain. To deflect arrows you need solid thick armor like full knights armor.
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 i suggest looking at the way mail was build , and the size of links , funny guy . Leg was protected by kite shield . In my understanding slashing is simply striking , where eventually blade would slide . Cutting bread and slashing bread are two different things.
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller A 20lbs (lbs = pounds) practice bow can kill a deer at 30 yards, or about 25 metres, 45lbs+ and up can penetrate butted mail, most peasent hunting bows were around 50-70lbs at the time according all historians I have seen on the matter, the "Warbows" named properly as its what they used for war ranged from 90-180lbs and is recorded that archers of the english army had to use these and ended up with wider chest and misfigured arm structure as a result, study your history please.
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 if peasant bows were so great against armor then crossbows and long bows wouldn't have become popular . So why dont dumb cunts watch Mike Loads program on armor where he fucking explains it all .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller You realize these bows had draw weights between 90-180lbs? also I have watched about every show made on archery, read extensively into all facts on bow and shot one myself, btw the simple 50lbs hunting bow I shot still went through 4 inches of wood. You may know all but if you had watched anything on chain vs bow, or at least realized that that crossbow was only more powerful if its rate of fire around 7-1 vs longbow and was used due to ease of training. but you can name call! :O
miles305678 1 year ago
@sewagedweller: Learn my history from WOW? Lord of the Rings? What are you talking about? o_O' I'm sorry but I lost you there : /.
Khornedevotee 10 months ago
@sewagedweller: But when did I say that arrows had the momentum to knock people down?
Khornedevotee 10 months ago
@sewagedweller: When did I said that I am learning my medieval history from World of Warcraft? When did I say that there were female knights? Btw, HOW do YOU know, or anyone else for that matter, that there were no real female knights during the medieval age? Do you happen to be a scientist perhaps?
Khornedevotee 10 months ago
@sewagedweller: And the word ''FUCK!'' is highly unnesecary in this sentense. Oh and yeah I DO know that this comment is 6 months from being a year old so that makes it quite old so no need in responding bc of that however you can respond for another purpose. Cheers m8.
Khornedevotee 10 months ago
@Khornedevotee fuck i want to struggle people like you , dont you even know basic physics or history . What's wrong with you ?
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller: It is though as you say that short bows aren't useful at all? It also seems that you're saying that a short bow can't harm any armored man/woman if it hits a weak spot? Armors do have weak spots. I have never said anything about short bows being able to be as powerful as a long bow. However, on a weak spot, if the arrow hits there, it WILL have a great chance enough to penetrate that part of the armor and get stuck in your flesh. God bless you m8.
Khornedevotee 11 months ago
@Khornedevotee you will need at least 14+ luck roll to hit and penetrate the mail between the joints or hit the eye holes in the helment. Again there was no her , women werent allowed to take knighthood . And yes Joan of Arc wasnt a knight. To become a knight you had to be trained from age of seven until you were allowed to take your vows . Latter on long bows became completly inneficient against the armor as armor technology improved .
sewagedweller 11 months ago
@sewagedweller: Ok. NOW I see. But again, I never SAID that there WERE female knights, hence the he/she part. I only meant that women had the potential to wear plate armor(however not as good on the move as a welltrained man) not that they were knights bc of that. Btw, no need in raging bc someone is missinformed : /. Highly unnecesary.
Khornedevotee 10 months ago
@Khornedevotee
The weakpoints were at the joints, so unless the knight was flashing his sweaty pits at you or giving you a knightly mooning i don't think your arrows will find purchase there. Good luck getting one through the visor. Now, it wasn't Completely ineffective; the welsh longbow could pierce plate if the target is within 30 yards or so. But chances are if an armored knight is that close your going to be running as fast as you can in the other direction.
WitheringintheDark 10 months ago
@WitheringintheDark: I agree. If one would just stand there when the knight/s is/are very close to you, like say 5 or 10 yards, it is of course as you said, you would obviously run in fear of the might of the cavalry hehe. Cheers and God bless you... MUCH! ;)
Khornedevotee 10 months ago
@sewagedweller In fact search "Bow vs Chainmail" here on youtube and watch BigBowBrum's video, yes it is not riveted mail but it is fairly thick or watch history for a show about it they show them often as said both in the video and in National Geo mail was designed to "Resist slashing attacks by dampening the blow over a large area" but could not resist piercing blows from pikes, arrows, or hard enough sword stabs, do some thinking about it, do some research, see you around! Good day! :)
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678
A. materials and resistance varied , cheap peasant bows lacked the resistance .
Composed weapons were expensive , and required greater strength to operate .
B. Distance played the role in armor piercing , in close up small bows have greater potential for penetration , but this is when you get lance charge in your face .
C. Indeed , mail was designed to protect from weak blows , strong ones you had to doge or block
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller and a bow maintains greatest power after it has traveled past about 20 feet due to the archers paradox, (the arrow wiggling at first flight due to the force place on the back of it by the string of the bow) so as for getting lanced while trying to shoot? Archers also hide behind large staves and would shoot heavy armor knights off the horses then swarm them with archers picks and battle hammers.
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 arrows wont get energy by magic (CONSERVATION OF ENERGY AND MATTER ANYONE ?) , everything that it got comes from bow staff trying to return to its original form shaking off energy that was used to deform it . Archer paradox is about arrow movement not getting power from nothingness . What you probably thinking off is acceleration due to gravity .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller The quivering arrow is more likely to bunce or break than once it straightens
miles305678 1 year ago
@miles305678 nice honesty in that video they are using longbows = larger resistance = larger potential energy. And fuck sake start using civilized units of SI ,wtf is lb bullshit ?
And please dont compare bows you used in modern day with benefit of our modern size , to bows peasants used in dark ages with their puny bodies .
sewagedweller 1 year ago
@sewagedweller Oh and Peasants were farmers or workers, even if they were puny they could pull the bows, also it was required by law that all civilians in england practice archery for at least 2 hours after church on sundays, also if you ever watch any realistic documentation of ancient combat these guys were not puny, just like the underfed soldiers of the world wars/modern wars they had serious muscle, climb jump and run better than most people now days can. But lemme guess a fan of knights?
miles305678 1 year ago
I thought the English Longbowmen were infantry.
Well.... glad to see some smilarity beetwen us (the Hungarians) and the English - Mounted Archers!
MiracleKD18 1 year ago
@MiracleKD18: So they weren't both cavalry and infantry? Did bowmen count as infantry or artillery or both?! I am quite ignorant on that particular subject. Or was the catapults the only artillery?
Khornedevotee 1 year ago
@Khornedevotee
Infantry is a soldier who fights on foot, cavalry is a soldier who fights from horseback.
Artillery are heavy weapons, like the balista, catapult, trebuchter, bombard cannons, and later came the self-propelled artillery (tanks).
Well, "longbowman" means a soldier who uses longbow, so it can be either infantry or cavalry.
MiracleKD18 1 year ago
@MiracleKD18: I see. Ty very much for the info.
Khornedevotee 1 year ago
@CHRISTIANSOLDIER101 Tosser how do you rewind a crossbow when mounted ?
keirfree 1 year ago
@keirfree With gizmo named Cranequin, a little rack-windlass type of device.
Taistelukalkkuna 1 year ago
Horse archers are the business.
Kullg4r 1 year ago
@CHRISTIANSOLDIER101 that is true, but even short range, I would rather get off 7 arrows than one bolt, even for the fast one I would rather have 10 arrows to 6 bolts. Crossbows were also heavy, and crossbow men less agile than archers.
miles305678 1 year ago
I want to see a mounter archer duel between a hun and an english. It sounds like a bit of a mismatch, but I'd still pay to see that.
sompret 1 year ago
Yay! better range, accuracy and rate of fire than crossbows! Longbows ftw!!!!
miles305678 1 year ago
crossbows are more accurate
boothesquirrel 1 year ago
Correct but thats only within about 15 feet, and does it matter when to have the same range and power over range as the bow the crossbow needed a crank, and therefor could only shoot 1 bolt to 7 archers arrows? Even the fastest crossbow was half as fast, search "Longbow vs Crossbow" or watch some shows on it, this is why in the list of ADVANCES in range weapon technology goes "Thrown, Sling, Atlatl, Bow, Gun." Plus off the field, the crossbow took more mantinance and was harder to build.
miles305678 1 year ago
the ottomans had better bows than the mongols. it was reported that the turkish bow was the appex of recurve war bows
umarpm 2 years ago
nice horse
norcorneliocastrogom 2 years ago 2
anyone as skilled as the Mongols!!
norcorneliocastrogom 2 years ago
omg, that's the guy from Military Channel xD
WW299 2 years ago 3
Yeah he's from Weapon Masters or something close to that.
BrianBTV 2 years ago 2
nice..
thebullitproofguy 2 years ago
Awesome skill's,
blackfeatherarchery 2 years ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
check out my videos on youtube (Viking vs. samurai : Thrand's aftermath part 1, 2 and 3 and also fighting bonus video)
ThegnThrand 2 years ago
I'm glad he said "shooting their bows" instead of "firing their bows."
CountArtha 3 years ago 14
@CountArtha Haha! Mike-Awesome-Loades wouldn't make that mistake!
whowantsabighug 1 year ago
@CountArtha
Firing their bows did not exist since the tem "Fire" came only in the musket era, just for clarification for people who did not know.
rokema2782 1 year ago