DeFrancosGym.com - Exercise Index: Kneeling Barbell Jumps

[Exodus7214]

Gotta do this next week but im pretty heavy about 245lbs lets see...

[Iceman1800]

Once I grow a set of balls, I'm going to try this movement. Looks like a good addition to training

[nikolatesla08]

@Iceman1800 use bodyweight first. Then use a weighted vest or dumbbells. wouldn't suggest just going straight to barbell if you have other means of loading the exercise with weight

[Iceman1800]

@nikolatesla08 thanks

[tww0711]

I see what you guys are saying and both parties are making some valid points but Squats are in no way over-rated. Squats are probably the best movement for developing overall strength. I garauntee if you ask DeFranco he will tell you that squat should be a staple in any routine.

[xJosebx]

don't justify joecandito with a response.

he's a TROLLLLLLL

[jbump4]

Vert is NOT more quads than hips.

[JRT140]

I have used this movement to great effect in working my jump to standing guard pass. As far as it being counter productive to neuromuscular programing just don't use a lot of weight or any at all. However whlle in the guard the bottom guy will hold on to you so you have some resistance.

[YSUStrength]

at least post how to do the exercise correctly

[J0hnFreeman]

ima try that

[pieman12345678900]

my knees hurt from over here o.0

[joecandito]

this just shows you how the "experts" try to make weightlifting too complicated

this isnt gonna help at all

[hardball1416]

"this isn't gonna help at all" is about as relative of a comment as it gets. This exercise itself is designed for power and explosiveness in recruiting the hip flexors, quads, hamstrings, glutes and abdominals. It is going to benefit all athletes, novice & professional.

[Heinidk]

Eksplosiveness in quads ? theyre barely used.

When everything else fails (like this exercise) stick to the basics.

[hardball1416]

Ok, we are not discussing, compound movements here. We are discussing the recruitment of muscle fibers. The basics may work for a bodybuilder type but a performance athlete needs more specific work in explosiveness.

[joecandito]

all of those things are false

lifting fast doesnt make your muscles fire faster

[hardball1416]

You are incorrect, do some research on they russian conjugate method and speed-strength method. You are right, lifting fast does not make your muscles fire faster. Although, lifting fast will develop more strength when combined with maximal effort lifting which then produces a stronger contraction. Hence more explosiveness off of the starting line.

[joecandito]

that is incoreect. because when you do explosive training the amount of weight being reduced ends up hurting progress and causing less muscle recruitment. and the same type of muscle fibers are trained either way

and

if you lift heavier, slower, with maximal effort, its a stronger contraction over a longer period of time. which causes much more muscle deelopment

[hardball1416]

I really don't know what you're trying to prove at this point. Research the Russian conjugate lifting method and I think you'll answer some of your own questions.

and

use spellcheck

[hardball1416]

AND

force = mass X acceleration

[joecandito]

but force doesnt = strength

and force to increase force, the only thing that can be done is increase strength

[xJosebx]

there is the strength of your muscles and the speed of your muscles. there is no force.

you can increase the speed that your muscles contract therefore increasing speed.

separately, you can train to increase the strength of your muscles.

then, later you will combine both in sport/competition.

and every action produces force, so force can be used to increase speed, strength, agility, stability, conditioning. etc.

[xJosebx]

you have no evidence of this while there are loads and loads of facts that go against what you say.

when lifting "fast" you recruit different types of motor neurons and muscle fibers. you are training the fast twitch fibers of you body. That said, "fast" doesn't mean the actual speed of the load. "fast" refers to the intended speed of the load. if you throw a med ball 5fps and that is your max speed, then your muscles are contracting fast and you are training your muscles to fire faster.

[joecandito]

WRONG

you actually recruit the EXACT same FAST twitch muscle fibers with both quick lifting and with heavy lifting

the type 2B muscle fibers are trained in BOTH ways of lifting. but more of the fibers are recruited for heacy lifting

you my friend, have absolutely no research behind your theory, while mine is basic knowlege to serious lifters

[xJosebx]

friend? ok hi there :]

research? well how exactly are you measuring the number of fibers recruited?

the research i use is based off of live subjects who become faster through dynamic training.

[joecandito]

the research is used is supported by the most famous sprinting coach Latiff Thomas and is based off of live subjects

and by live subjects i mean ME. i am a sprinter and my brother is a collegiate sprinter. and let me tell you, they dont do any of this BS, they squat hard and heavy.

the muscle recruitment statement is a specific statement by Latiff thomas and his reasearch conclusions

so... yeah, i know what im talkin about

[ytubeserb]

Maximum strength training has a high correlation only at the beginning stages of sprinters training. Working on your relative leg strength is basically working on your stride length (that is, how much force you can put to the ground). What matters after that is the rate of force development, or how much force you can actually use at ground contact. You can't develop rate of force development by training for maximum strength over and over again.

[ytubeserb]

You can't bash on this exercise like that. Everything has it's place in training of athletes. You should read Zatsiorsky to educate yourself about training more. That's the man who worked with athletes his entire life and had a whole Soviet union team to test on. A bit of Bondarchuk is a good read as well, to introduce to different stages of training and correlations in training. Give me names of sprinters that your "most famous coach" produced. Olympic medalists and WR holders if you may.

[joecandito]

no because this is a waste of time

first of all, as the season pregresses, one should get into more specific training by RUNNING. rather than this crap. and TO BRANCH THE GAP, USE RESISTENCE LIKE A SLED OF PARACHUTTE WHILE SPRINTING.

and training for maimum strength will ALWAYS HELP CREATE FORCE BETTER THAN THESE EXERCISES

these exercises arent even nearly quick enough to resemble the quickness of sprinting anyways

[ytubeserb]

I visited Latif's website (it isn't spelled Latiff btw). No wonder I never heard of him. He hasn't accomplished anything. He's selling some training programs on his website, and has no impressive background at all. So, your coach has made you the fastest man of southwest Ohio and suddenly he's the most famous coach and all of us should believe in everything you say about training. Yeah, Zatsiorsky, make room for Latif. Give me a break.

[joecandito]

hahahahaha

you just saud that Latiff thomas hasnt accomplished anything.

hahahahaha

hes coached so many state championchip sprinters and he himself was very successful

btw, im not joe candito. i used his account to post videos i took of him, and now i use his account

hes the one coaching me. hes now in college

and i dont know if you thought i was coached by Thomas, but that would cost wayyyy too much when my bro does it

[ytubeserb]

You called him "most famous sprinting coach". None of his athletes went to worlds or olympics, not to mention that they never won anything international. You are putting his training theories above those from Soviet research (Zatsiorsky, Verkoshansky, Bondarchuk etc). Research that actually created a dozen of world class athletes. For example, Bondarchuk trained five olympic medalists and a current WR holder in hammer throw). That's quality. No one cares about or approves the research of Latif.

[joecandito]

you never gave me study results, you just gave me false research. your research has been known to be false by 90% of weightlifters. latiff is great, but i trust my dad even more considering hes lifted for over 30 years and has studied all of your guys' theories and goes by some german program

and he knows you are foolish

[ytubeserb]

Oh, you called your daddy to tell I'm foolish. And who is your dad, how is he relevant to this discussion? Lmao. I didn't gave you the results? Do you want me to name you every soviet athlete that was trained in a way those researches support? If we are limited to sprinters, does Valery Borzov ring any bell? You mentioned that your dad goes by some german program? All german sport science is from the time before the fall of Berlin wall, or the GDR, run by soviets.

[ytubeserb]

Also, you are limited in a bunch of different ways. Your world is limited to US, or even to just Ohio. Your education is limited to what your dad tells you and what Latif "research" says. You fail to recognize the importance of different efforts of training, as you see only M.E as a solution to everything. And...I still can't get over the fact that you called your dad to confirm your opinions. Lmao.

[ytubeserb]

"90% of weightlifters"? You mean the sport of weightlifting? Where dynamic effort is the essence of the sport? Or you mean powerlifting, where using different efforts of training brought the greatest number of world class powerlifters (Westside barbell, Louie Simmons? (kneeling barbell jumps are an example of a small dynamic effort movement). You just can't stop failing at your arguments. Get the fuck out and take your fail with you.

[joecandito]

weightlifter = people who lift weights

oh boy, another internet loser who thinks everybody round him "fails" when they know alot more than they do

go doe your knee bounces and waste your time while i'll stick to my heavy squats and build muscle/stregth/explosiveness

have fun bouncing

[ytubeserb]

Oh boy, another guy on the internet who thinks that his dad and his coach know the best and that the decades of scientific research means nothing. Yeah, I can see where being the fastest man of southwest Ohio proves that his training methods are superior to those of Olympic medalists and World champions. Also, I never said that there is something wrong with heavy squats, so enjoy them.

[joecandito]

once again, i already explained the scientific research on which fast twitch muscles are used, and you had no responce to that

becuse what i said is a fact,, heavy weight training uses type 2A muscles

and i trust my dad because he already knows what you read, hes read more than you ever will, so i go with the ACTUAL RESEARCH that he has done in his 30 years of liftin

as i said, do the bounces if you want, it just wont help

do powercleans instead though

[ytubeserb]

Like in Coolhand Luke, we have a failure to communicate. I agree that the maximum strength is basis for everything. Stronger people jump higher and sprinter faster. But what you need to realize is that maximum effort training is not the end of the world and that the supplementary work should contain different efforts and different goals. For example, dynamic effort training (like power cleans) is a work on rate of force development which is a key to sport excellence. To be continued...

[ytubeserb]

You can't achieve a high rate of force development just by doing heavy squats. Time to develop force in sport movements like jumping or sprinting or whatever is much less than the time in let's say squats. That's my point all along. Everything, like these kneeling barbell jumps which are just some random dynamic movement and not a backbone of someones training, has it's place in training. Do we understand eachother now?

[joecandito]

yeah, i suppose we can agree on that

but you have to admit, this exercise is pretty worthless. i mean, some explosive exercises are pretty good like powercleans, juump squats, or other olympic lifts

but this bothers me because people make weightlifting too complicated, the basics are the best, not this rediculous exercise

you cant even have enough weght doin this because it would hurt your back and knees

so my conviction and somewhat resentment was towards this specific exercise

[ytubeserb]

Well, it's not like Joe claimed that this exercise is going to make big difference in someone's performance. Like I said, it's just a small part of training, not an essential exercise. It's explosive in it's nature, so it can't be useless. There are better exercises, but more tools in the box is never a bad thing. That's all.

[joecandito]

i think it can be a bad thing. because kids see all of these exercises and dont know how to do them, when to do them, or even what they are called

then they get lost and need a trainer's advice

and then Joe is ready to help them as long as they pay

see, i think weightlifting is over complicated by proffesionals so they can be realied on

and you shouldnt lift for much more than an hour at a time, so doing this could actually hurt significantly

[ytubeserb]

Joe mostly trains professional athletes, college and high school football players. And he is good at it. You shouldn't judge his training by one exercise. Although sticking to the basics is a good thing, there is also a need for variety. I didn't understand your last statement about time. This is not done in like dozen of sets and reps. So it does not take longer that 10 minutes.

[xJosebx]

youre a sprinter yes?

what do you think you're doing when you do sprints?

you're moving a load, your bodyweight, at a high speed.

that's the same thing. you do, do this "bs"

troll. GTFO

[joecandito]

umm... this weight isnt close to my bodyweight

you obviously dont know much about sprinting or weightlifting or muscle types or sports for that matter

ytybeserb disagrees but understands my point because he actually learns instead of just guessing how to lift like u do

[xJosebx]

LOL it's more than your bodyweight cause you're lifting it in addition to your bodyweight.

gtfo troll

[joecandito]

i have never heard a weightlifer coundt bodyweight to the weight total

probaly because you arent a weightlifter

and since you only lift your upper body, its still not more than your bodyweight

AND ISNT THE WHOE POINT OF RESISTENCE TRAINING TO HAVE MORE WEIGHT THAT YOUR BODYWEIGHT?

if you really want to simulate sprinting, then just go sprint. but i want to gain muscle and power and explosiveness

go read a book on working out

people like you make utube annoying

[xJosebx]

look, when you sprint. there is technically no load but you're muscles are moving the weight of your body which trains you to be "fast" with "light weight" like the exercise in the video.

the point isnt to stimulate sprinting.. it never was. it was to build explosiveness and speed. you cannot do this exercise slowly and your muscles, after the repetition of this exercise your muscles learn to be explosive.

i wont read a book. ill actually train and perform. have fun being an "expert" on youtube.

[joecandito]

once again, you are wrong. what you say sounds right, but sadly is wrong.

you see i actually read studies and learn facts

facts like

resistence training with heavy loads and normal speeds train type 2B fast twitch mucles, the SAME USED IN SPRINTING

of course some powercleans and explosive exercises do help, but the bulk of training isnt quick, but heavy

look at isometric holds, they just have the person pause with the tension on their legs, the opposite of explosive

[xJosebx]

isometrics are useful in building speed because they stabilize the hip and reduce false movement of the body while sprinting.

just because the same muscle fibers are used doesn't mean they are the same.

there are also factors like speed of contraction and stretch reflex/SSC that are essential for explosive sports that focus on things other than just linear speed.

and as usual in the s&c world, there is more than one way to do something.

stop trolling and train

[joecandito]

whats up with the trolling thing, can you just stick to making legit points

the problem with your areguement is that all of the other stuff shouldnt and cant really be done in the weightroom

if you want sport specific training, then do it with drills for that sport and add resistaence there

for instance, i run with a parachutte on my back later in the season to apply the strength i gained in the weightroom to the track

weightoom = stregth base

not for polishing sport specific skills

[xJosebx]

alright. i'll stop with the trolling thing.

i didnt mention polishing sport speed btw.

ask joe d what he thinks about running with a parachute. he'll tell you a lot better than any youtube member like myself can.

the main thing that i'm saying is that these kneeling barbell jumps, basically plyos. help with explosion and speed-strength. just having these unpolished bases will definitely help you in sport

[joecandito]

yeah, i see what you are sayin, i just dont think mixing the two is a good idea considering the amount of time it takes up for weightlifting (u should only work out an hour a session) and the awkward form and high risk for injury.

i just think that the weightroom is used most effieciently when building raw stregth

and the plyos and other wuicker stuff can be done outside with other devices

but dont you think powercleans are better than this? thats what i do for some explosive liftin

[xJosebx]

i don't really know what's better.

but your body will adapt to powercleans after a while so you need to change things up.

just cause squatting is the king of all exercises.. doesn't mean you don't deadlift or do variations of the squat (cambered bar, safety bar, front, etc)

this exercise very well may not be the best/optimal exercise to build explosion. but it adds variety and helps you work towards your goal at the same time

[joecandito]

when doing a routine, you are gonna have to pick about 6-8 exercises per session to get it all done in time

in my opinion, this would never come close to being an option

[xJosebx]

thats you man. everyone is different.

there's no cookie cutter routine that fits all people

[joecandito]

ummm... i see wht you are saying, and you are right to an extent

but there are the main basic exercises that should be the core for any weight program. those are

squats = the king

bench press = yes it can be overrated, but it activates the over 30% of all upper body muscle fibers. and is very important

overhead press = most underrated exercise, detoids used in sprinting, basketball, football, and basically everything

some back exercise = could be db rows, lat pulldown, or pull ups

[blowinblunts19]

@joecandito

joecandito not everyones a bodybuilder and trains to be big u dumbass people are athletes squats are the most overrated excercise there is there are tons of better leg excercises to do that squats u fuckin idiot

[tmcdougald]

@joecandito sounds more like you base building athletic performance with bodybuilding lifts and techniques, there's a rhyme and reason for certain things especially if they get results...long story short w/e works for you is what you should be doing.

[joecandito]

now that gives you some options for the other 2-4 exercises.

powercleans = very underrated

curls = good to balance out tricep devepement from other exercises

tricep pushdown/french press = tricep developement, helps bench press and overhead press

isolation db curl = attacks bicep head differently

lateral raise = shoulder development

THE POINT IS, THIS TYPE OF EXERCISE DOESNT MATCH WELL WITH OTHER EXERCISES AND IS INEFFECTIVE FOR 98% OF PEOPLE

[blowinblunts19]

@joecandito this guy knows what he doin how many proffessional athletes do you train man the proof is in the pudding the guy gets results flat out why you care about the excercises he doesn just stick to your squat only program and hour in the gym

[frankfriedrice86]

@joecandito read joe defrancos breakdown of the powerclean. search powerclean on his webpage and he does an excellent job of explaining other options.

[jbump4]

More quad driven than hip driven?  You must be high

[bigchris3121]

vert is more quads than hips

[vongSTAA]

would this happen to have any benefits to someone's vertical jump?

[ptarleton]

Well it'll increase power in the hips, but a vertical jump is more quad driven than hip driven, so this particular exercise would be better suited to improving your broad jump, triple jump, and sprint times than it would be a vertical jump.

If you want to increase your vertical jump, you're gonna want to do some type of jump that involves the quads more. This is basically a ballistic kneeling squat.

[vongSTAA]

thanks for clarifying

[martin1106]

what is it good for? explosive strength?

[tubby92288]

nice!