2:01 Not tree truck, but tree *trunk.* In other words, a palus, a sedilis excessu, a cornu, an acuta crux, a skolops. In other words, an impaling stake attached to a cross.
Yes, the Romans were that perverted. They even know how to crucify people on crosses with such an appendage so that the person suffering that which is (to us) cruel and unusual and perverted and shameful punishment would through the dance of the cross "ride" the stake.
Scientists have also researched that a cross would have been too heavy for Jesus to walk so far with. The cross has heavy pagan worship that existed before Jesus walked the earth. I'm not a Jehovah's witness but the truth is the truth. Don't find ways to accept lies.
This is a bias video that doesn't provide all evidence that clearly proves Jesus died on a cross. Also their isn't more information that talks about Constantine and how he wore a crucifix around his head and neck. Don't leave out details about how Tammuz was worshipped by a cross.
Sorry, but nailing to the surface of a pole =/= impale on a stake.
if you consider all the ancient Greek and Latin writings that talk about the Roman execution, they talk alternatively about nailing, hanging from a transverse beam, hanging on a stake or treetrunk, lifted onto a stake or into a cross, impaled, and even "piledriving themselves"!! And epigraphic evidence from Pompeii and Puteoli confirms *all* of this. And Alexamenos Graffito shows a preliminary stage before adding a stake.
Hello mate. I am a "Dubbie" - clearly not a good one cos I am responding to this - it is interesting and your quotes are interesting. I wonder if you accept the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one, along with all that entails? How does this reconcile with everyone saying do your own research - i.e. read sources from the world on a subject that the wicked one would like to ensure remains obscured, confused, shrouded in conjecture. Tricky.
What does it matter? The issue I have is that people all over wear a torture device around their necks and bow down before it in prayer. "Let's all bow our heads before an image of a man being slowly tortured to death" Sounds horrid to me.
"The upright post is called stipes, the transverse beam patibulum; and it was this, rather than the entire instrument, which the criminal carried to the place of execution (Plaut. Mostell. i. 1, 53, and ap. Non. s.v. patibulum)." -Webster's Online Dictionary
"The prisoner then usually had to carry the horizontal beam (patibulum in Latin) to the place of execution, not necessarily the whole cross. Crucifixion was typically carried out by specialized teams, consisting of a commanding centurion and four soldiers. When it was done in an established place of execution, the vertical beam (stipes) was sometimes permanently embedded in the ground." -word IQ (dot) com
"4716 staurós – the crosspiece of a Roman cross; the cross-beam (Latin, patibulum) placed at the top of the vertical member to form a capital "T." "This transverse beam was the one carried by the criminal" (Souter)." -Strongs (Greek concordance)
"Method of capital punishment among the Persians, Seleucids, Jews, Carthaginians, and Romans from about the 6th century BC to the 4th century AD. The condemned man was usually whipped and forced to drag the crossbeam [patibulum] to where the upright was standing. His hands were tied or nailed to the crossbeam, which was attached to the upright 9–12 ft (2.5–3.5 m) above the ground, and his feet bound or nailed to the upright." -The Free Dictionary (dot) com
"In some cases, the condemned was forced to carry the crossbeam [patibulum] on his shoulders to the place of execution. A whole cross would weigh well over 300 pounds (135 kilograms), but the crossbeam would weigh only 75–125 pounds (35–60 kilograms).[7]...Upright posts would presumably be fixed permanently in that place, and the crossbeam, with the condemned person perhaps already nailed to it, would then be attached to the post."-Wikipedia
primarily through the Roman Church through Constantine. Christianity today has European pagan, Roman and Greek mythology mixed into it. Many celebrations, including Easter, Christmas, New Years, Valentine's Day etc. etc. have their roots in ancient mythologies. This is common knowledge. The cross is not a symbol of the Bible and nor are the other holidays I just mentioned in the Bible.
I have a degree in history and researched this when writing about why pagan Europe became Christian. I have done a massive amount of reading and whenever the Greek word stauros is used it never would be a cross. For example the pieces of timber used in ramparts were stauros, they are hardly going to use a cross to build a rampart. The Christian cross is based on the sword of the Crusaders. It's history goes back before Jesus and was adopted into the Christian church along with other mythologies
"I have a degree in history and researched this..."
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Great, then your research should agree with the dictionaries I referenced concerning the patibulum and other issues. Are you saying Jesus carried the upright stake to his crucifixion site instead of the patibulum?
The other word used for 'cross' is xylos from which the xylophone gets its name. Xylophones use single pieces of wood and not crosses. I can provide 100s of references to show that stauros is a single piece of timber, therefore, Jesus didn't die on a cross. The reason why pagan Europe took to Christianity and had the cross as their symbol was because they were very used to the symbol of the cross: Thor's hammer, the Ankh. thus it was already loaded with meaning to them ; same religion, new name
I researched this at University and wrote a paper on it. The word used in the Bible is stauros, which means a singular piece of wood or a stake. In Aesop's fable the lion gets a stauros in his paw. That is translated into thorn. Hadrian used to impale around 500 people a day with stauros he wouldn't be bothered fashioning crosses a single piece of wood was used. The Christian cross is based on the crusader's sword of the middle ages.
The word used in the Bible is stauros, which means a singular piece of wood or a stake.
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Depends on which Greek dictionary you read. Even if we say a stauros was a single stake, it was common of that day for the patibulum to be added to the stauros; the whole thing which came to be known as a cross. It's very probable that Jesus carried a patibulum (the horizontal beam) to his crucifixion site that had the stauros in place. The Latin "T" cross was the most common of the Romans.
It's not whether it was a cross or a torture stake. We should not revere the image. The real problem with the Watchtower Society is that their entire belief system is stacked on top of lies. Satan is the father of the lie. 1874, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975. Now the sly old devil has become more clever. Keep quiet. No more dates. Cover up the lies. Rewrite (update) their books and change their history. The Almighty is watching you. You have much to answer for.
JW's are enemies of the cross, that's why they despise it as a symbol. Christ for them is not redeemer, but angelic messenger. Thomas said" unlesss I see the prints from the "nails" in his hands, I will not believe. One stake through the hands wouldn't have done this. Jesus also said "I am the vine", if you look at a stake from a grapevine in Palestine, it has a cross bar holding up the branches of vines in the shape of a cross. Christ's meant for us to visually understand what he said.
A 19th Century writer with no Scholarly credentials. Believed that Jehovah was a myth created by the Hebrews and patterned after the Babylonian Sun God. He also believed most of the accounts in the Bible were also based on pagan mythology including the creation account, the flood, and the shape of the cross.
He promoted Spiritualist practices such as psychic powers and also disputed the Authorship of Shakespeare's plays.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT JESUS DIED ON. FOOLS YOU ARE, TO ARGUE OVER THIS. The cross or Tree or Pole should never be venerated as some idol with special powers to ward off evil, this is idolotry. FOOLS YOU ARE to be divided as Christians. STOP ARGUING, Just beleive in Jesus Christ's Resurrection. JUST WHAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE? I don't get it.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT JESUS DIED ON. FOOLS YOU ARE, TO ARGUE OVER THIS. The cross or Tree or Pole should never be venerated as some idol with special powers to ward off evil, this is idolotry. FOOLS YOU ARE to be divided as Christians. STOP ARGUING, Just beleive in Jesus Christ's Resurrection. JUST WHAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE? I don't get it.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT JESUS DIED ON. FOOLS YOU ARE, TO ARGUE OVER THIS. The cross or Tree or Pole should never be venerated as some idol with special powers to ward off evil, this is idolotry. FOOLS YOU ARE to be divided as Christians. STOP ARGUING, Just beleive in Jesus Christ's Resurrection. JUST WHAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE? I don't get it.
@middleman777 You. My point is that if you want to incorporate medical concepts to prove or disprove something, you might as well throw the whole story of Jesus out the window all together. None of the gospel was meant to be medically accurate. That's a weak link in an otherwise strong case.
If Messiah would have came in this time period and were executed in an electric chair, would Christians make an image of him in an electric chair and display it on their walls or as a trinket on a chain around their necks? Giving honor to images is of the pagans.
This question has been asked by many others in times past. Maybe not in the same words or scenario that I have presented. What would be your answer to this question?
BTW, "PlanosLie" is my other profile that I use for other subjects of "heavy stuff", such as UFO's etc. But to answer your question about using the electric chair as a symbol, I'll say sure why not. You're grossly informed that I'm giving honor to a pagan symbol just because it's a mere memorial of how my savior died for my sins. How is it that your pagan Watchtowers are ok to be used on YOUR magazines but born agains can't cite a cross? Hypocritical? I think so...
@middleman777 Oh Yeah! Those UFOs are really "HEAVY STUFF"! LOL! Yeah! You would say "Sure Why Not!" LOL! My pagan Watchtower? Talk about someone who is grossly misinformed, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness and never said that I was! LOL!
Frank my apologies, you debate like a dubbie so I assumed you were one. You got me on that one lol. Ya the UFO issue IMHO will play a huge part of the endtime delusion and Christians need to know about what's going on, and they need to be waned. It all can be explained Biblically though. Take care now...
@middleman777 Well, just keep in mind that the Jehvovah's Witness believe that Jesus is God and that he pre-existed his birth just like you do. Not sure if you believe that the babies of the unrighteous are unclean like they do though! This goes along with the "Household Salvation" doctrine. I still have not figured out what the hell they are supposed to be witnesses to yet! LOL!
@chiefthriller Yes, they do, but they also believe that he was "a god" separate from Father Yahweh and that he pre-existed his birth as the arch-angel Michael. I do not believe this. Capitalizing on the word 'god' does not change the belief in that Yahweh or the Messiah His son was "God" or a "god". I do not believe that Yahweh our Heavenly Father and Creator was "God" or a "god" or that His son Yahshua was "God" or a "god". I myself am not a "God" worshiper.
@chiefthriller Yes, I certainly do believe what the Scripture say! I believe that all Scripture is inspired by Father Yahweh and is profitable for doctrine for reproof and correction and instruction in righteousness, and that we are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of Father Yahweh. yahwehDOTyolasiteDOTcom
What seems lost in the argument is the use of the Cross in modern Christianity. The cross is a symbol most Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, hold in high regard. The cross, or stake, or tree, or whatever was used to crucify Jesus should not be a symbol to be used the way Christians do. Kissing, praying, bowing, hung around the neck all are examples of idol worship... something the Bible denounces. Rev. 17 and 18 speaks about Catholics and Protestants, and it tells of their destruction.
Regardless if people worship the cross or not (I don't anyways), it's both Biblical and historical that Jesus died on a cross. There's not much else I can say here...
It seems like most of your research begins in early AD. How about you take a look at the early Greek. The Greek does not have the word cross in the bible. The correct word is stauros, which actually means post or stake. The cross, however, is used by pagans to represent their sun god. It is the mystic tau or the babylonian sun cross. Ill refer you to several bible verses for your research about graven images: Exodus 20:4, Leviticus 26:1, Acts 17:29
I hope that your verse at the end Colossians 2:14 is not implying the doing away of the Ten Commandments. The Law of Moses yes but never the Ten Commandments.
Nickatimes, you should do your own research instead of repeating like a parrot wachtower brainwashed infos . Read the gospels in prayer for Jehovah to enlighten you . Christ did died on a cross John 20 :25 thomas tell the disciples that he want to see the marks of the NAILS in Christ HANDS after his resurection ! So Christ did not died on an uprigth stake but on a cross . Beside at His cruxifiction the sign that pilate wrote ,was put above His head and not above His hand !
As recorded at Acts 5:30, the apostle Peter used the word xy′lon, meaning tree, as a synonym for stau·ros′, denoting, not a two-beamed cross, but an ordinary piece of upright timber or tree. It was not until about 300 years after Jesus death that some professed Christians promoted the idea that Jesus was put to death on a two-beamed cross. However, this view was based on tradition and a misuse of the Greek word stau·ros′.
The Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John use the Greek word stau·ros′ when referring to the instrument of execution on which Jesus died. (Matthew 27:40; Mark 15:30; Luke 23:26) The word stau·ros′ refers to an upright pole, stake, or post.
A more important issue for true Christians should be the propriety of venerating the instrument used to kill Jesus. Whether it was an upright single torture stake, a cross, an arrow, a lance, or a knife, should such an instrument be used in worship?
Long before the Christian era, crosses were used by the ancient Babylonians as symbols in their worship of the fertility god Tammuz. The use of the cross spread into Egypt, India, Syria, and China. Then, centuries later, the Israelites adulterated their worship of Jehovah with acts of veneration to the false god Tammuz. The Bible refers to this form of worship as a detestable thing.—Ezekiel 8:13, 14
Besides, the use of the cross in worship is no different from the use of images in worship, a practice condemned in the Bible. (Exodus 20:2-5; Deuteronomy 4:25, 26) The apostle John accurately reflected the teachings of true Christianity when he admonished his fellow Christians with the words: Guard yourselves from idols. (1 John 5:21) This they did even when it meant facing death in the Roman arena.
P. Barbet said that MOST people died within 24 to 36 hours of being crucified not 1 like you are trying to make out and thats why they would be the need to break their legs so they could no longer rise up to breathe and would asphyxiate
Yes. Stauros means upright pole. But that doesn't prove that a cross-beam wasn't attached. Some telephone poles have cross-beams, while others don't. They're all referred to as poles.
A cross is a symbol. And people pray to it. There are strict instruction about praying to any image. Jesus taught who to pray to and in which manner to pray. Jesus never ever in all of the entirety of the bible says anything about remembering the instrument in which he was torchered through prayer, or worship.
Christians don't pray to a cross. We don't say, "Holy cross we come before you to ask forgiveness of our sins..." We pray to God. The cross is used for us to remember that Jesus died a horrible death so we may be forgiven. When we pray, we pray as we should, as Jesus instructs.
True christians do not use the cross period. Jesus did not instruct this. This is a lie told to lead people away from christianity. "Cross" is not even mentioned in the bible. Or is it mention to use it in order to remember Jesus. The Early christians never used the cross in their worship to God. Nor do they mention it.
the bible does mention cross, in reference to how Jesus died. Just because the bible does not say we should do something does not mean we shouldn't. the bible does not say we should drive cars but we do anyways. Just because early Christians may not have used it does not mean we shouldn't. The bible does not say we should not either. actually your "lie" is not tole because it is not taught that Jesus instructs this. We do it of our own choosing.
the thing is that the bible doesn not use the word cross in the original greek simply put those translations of the bible that use the word "cross" is comepletly biased in there translation.
The Greek "stauros" refers to a upright pole but does not rule out the attachment of a cross beam. Early church writings refer to "stauros" as having a cross beam to which the hands are attached. Then there is the mention of the sign above his head, not above his hands. This would mean that his hands were most likely not above him.
@Alucard1242 your right and wrong about the word stauros. but if you look up your history before christ in pre koine greek it ment stake how ever. at the time of christ it ment cross. john 20 25 unless i see his hands the print of the NAILS and stick my finger in to the print of the NAILs. Matthew 27 37 says the charge placed above his head not his hands
congratulations sir/ma'am, you've managed to spam all of my latest videos. Keep up the good work and a thumbs up to YOU lol!!! Very effective I must say...ok I'm only kidding...
It is understandable why these clergy or Opposers are spending so much time fault finding & that is all they ever do & focused on they are constantly waging war with us just like the Rabbis & the Priests did to Jesus.
They are angry because people in their churches are leaving them to become JW's to experience real pure worship. They are losing a lot of money. To all of you who wants to experience the very best of Christian love, 7 million of us JW's welcomes everyone!
The term "INRI" neither appears on a torture stake nor even a cross; it is simply an abbreviation used on small crucifixes - Iesvs Nazarenvs Rex Ivdæorvm. In addition, the term is also in Aramaic and Greek.
Love the vidio by the way and what strikes me as interesting is the fact that Jws in the pictures of Jesus on a stake still has one nail in his hands never giving the option there could of been more than one like John 20:25-28 THomas knew that Jesus has more than one nail in his hands it dose not say there hands and feet and Jesus said himself reach into my "hands" the doubting thomas after doing so knew this was Jesus now if Jesus had used one nail to die on like all the pictures of the WTBTS
Its only an artistic illistration of the death of Jesus ... the WTBTS states "We thus recognize that depictions of Jesus death in our publications, such as you see on page 24, are merely reasonable artistic renderings of the scene, not statements of anatomic absolutes.
(includeing nails) Such depictions need not reflect the changing and conflicting opinions of scholars, and the drawings definitely avoid religious symbols that stem from ancient paganism."
Jehova's just a dodjy translation in english for people who can't pronounce the original. in welsh it's Ior, they didt know how to pronouce YHVH either.
Jesus said"I and the Father are One"
and "before Abraham was I am"
Thomas said to Him, "My Lord and MyGod"
"It is by grace you are saved, through faith.... not a result of works so that no one may boast."
thats from the Bible. what more proof do you need? trust Gods word not the teachings of men.
She never gives a straight answer and is never willing to admit she's wrong about anything. I had to block her from my channel because she argued for weeks that the name is Jehovah, same thing you asked there in question 1. No matter how many sources I provided or evidence I showed, she was right and I was wrong, period.
yes im sure Gods name is Jehovah. i know how to pronounce it in spanish and english. in phil 2:9= "For this very reason also God exalted him 2 a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name".=it doesnt say in dis txt that Jesus name is superior to Jehovahs. Jehovah is God almighty. lol, now on earth there r so many people called "Jesus"- i dont know if u noticed- it could be that thats what is also trying to say. Gods son mighty Jesus needs to be respected.
very informative video I like your research and giving evidence on contradictions of the watchtower and showing historical records of what the early church father's believed in well done. Good video
thank-you for your kind words but do you see how our JW friends still disregard this info as "hearsay" and "not accurate". If they could give me sound evidence to their claims then I could/would adjust my video/research. I guess long as people are at least talking, there's hope that the real truth of things will sink in. The reality is that MANY JW's that come on to sites like this leave the org due to the overwhelming info that can't be denied, that is if you want truth.
bowing down to jesus doesnt make him the almighty God. people bow down to famous people and others out of respect - (those people also have names). a lot of things in the bible r symbolic.
Well considering that you don't even know how to spell "videos", I can't take your words too seriously lol. In all fairness though, I'm a terrible speller too lol. Question, what would you like me to add to my research?
I've always been partial to the 2nd. I know why his actions are important, but what does it matter what he was killed on. Also I dont know why people wear crosses or hang them in homes. Christians are not supposed to have Idols.
hello how are you? I will answer your question shortly but at the moment I'm trying to get another video finished. In short I believe Jesus is God, he is not the father but the son. I believe he is in the fullness of the "godhead" (1969 KIT says "godship") as the Bible says. I'll add more later ok?
Save your Trinity debate for another video lol. FYI, no Trinitarian will argue with you that Jesus is a separate person from his father. I agree with you, I'm not a modalist.
how do u think that happened? well people that have studied those languages very good just know how to pronounce it. since i studied spanish really good- i know how to pronounce the letters and words in spanish.
As far as God's name being Jehovah, I'll make a video on that one too. BTW, since the form Jehovah (Jehova) is rooted from Latin, how do you say YHWH in HEBREW?
how do u suppose we humans where able to pronounce Jehovah in english and Jehova in spanish in our day and understand that its the right pronounciation?.
I will ask you again...how do you say YHWH in HEBREW? BTW, my girlfriend is from Spain (Madrid) and I speak Spanish as well, so I know what you are talking about.
did u know that in jesus time people were already speaking Latin? jesus must have known alittle latin. since he was a perfect man unlike all of us he probably tought others the correct way to pronounce Gods name as well as his own in these languages that were around when he was alive. :)
but not all latin is pronounced the same. what do u mean? latin also probably came from hebrew. children can learn all those languages. if u didnt know something interesting is that over jesus head when being impaled was a small wooden board that said his information- like his name and facts. if u didnt know it was written in hebrew greek and latin. jesus and other people probably knew how to pronounce Gods name in hebrew,greek and LATIN (since Jesus was always preaching.) did u know that?
yes, im sure. and did u know the name jehovah and Jesus are also in the new testament and they are spoken of as separate person? yeah im sure of everything.
i believe that jesus wont come back like u probably have been tought by ur religion- in person.
plus i have to keep studying more. gudnight, ill comment tommorow. im busy and going to sleep. :)
did u read the context though? because when jesus was on earth many people did the same (bow down to him)- and sum people even wanted to worship him and wanted him to be king on earth during the time he was living as a fleshy man- but jesus said no..
i dont think bowing down to jesus make him the almighty God. people bow down to famous people and others out of respect - (those people also have names). a lot of things in the bible r symbolic.
good morning how are you? I'm curious, can you please tell me what you are responding to in your last post to me? Was I talking about the worship of Jesus? I don't remember if I brought that up. We can discuss that though. I'm also going to make a video on it.
Having read the Bible and continuing to read the Bible now, I've noticed there hasn't been one time that Jesus didn't tell anyone to stop worshiping him. (I grew up with the NIV, now I have a NT AMP, I want a OT AMP ;o; soo gooooood)
In the NWT, they change the word "proskuneo" from "worship" (which they use only in reference to Jehovah) and into "obeisance" for Jesus. I found it interesting how in Acts 10:25 also used "obeisance". See how Peter reacts versus how Jesus reacts...
i just told u, i cant keep saying it over and over.
when jesus was around people spoke hebrew and latin. jesus himself read the scriptures. Jesus knew the correct way to pronounce Gods name in Latin and other languages. Jesus preached on earth- he tought other and those people tought it to their kids and its still pronounced like that till this day.
"i just told u, i cant keep saying it over and over."
We both know that Jehovah (Jehova) is a Latin name so please tell us the Hebrew pronunciation. Once you do, then we can move on here. You're aware that one of your WBTS books (1961 Let Your Name Be Sanctified) says it's a hybrid made up name right?
i could ask u the same thing. y wouldnt u believe someone that knows those three languages? some of the jehovahs witness know these languages- thats y. like i've already told u Jesus when on earth tought others about Gods name and right pronounciation k.
I guess my question will apparently go unanswered?
I think you need to check your history and see when the name "Jehova" came on the scene. That is, the earliest it's found in historic literature. Even your GB in times past have shown this history.
how can u say that? i bet u Jesus when on earth new how to pronounce Gods name. jesus even preached about it when he was on earth if u didnt know. jesus followers were tought by jesus and the followers tought others and the name still lives. okidokey
who r u talking about? jesus? if u r talking bout Jesus=in his time most of the people around him spoke latin. the soldiers that were there during his death were romans and they spoke latin. like i said before. the wooden tablet that was over jesus nailed to the stake or post had his information in hebrew- Greek- and Latin if u didnt know. thats so everyone around could know who he was and his information.
Greek was like the English of our day, everyone spoke it. (I took Classical Mythology in college which includes learning about the culture of the time) Even my cousins aged 12, 13 and 16 know that he was either speaking Greek or Hebrew and definitely not Latin.
And yeah, Roman soldiers would be speaking Latin to each other.
2:01 Not tree truck, but tree *trunk.* In other words, a palus, a sedilis excessu, a cornu, an acuta crux, a skolops. In other words, an impaling stake attached to a cross.
Yes, the Romans were that perverted. They even know how to crucify people on crosses with such an appendage so that the person suffering that which is (to us) cruel and unusual and perverted and shameful punishment would through the dance of the cross "ride" the stake.
EdM021 1 month ago
Scientists have also researched that a cross would have been too heavy for Jesus to walk so far with. The cross has heavy pagan worship that existed before Jesus walked the earth. I'm not a Jehovah's witness but the truth is the truth. Don't find ways to accept lies.
Artscola 3 months ago
This is a bias video that doesn't provide all evidence that clearly proves Jesus died on a cross. Also their isn't more information that talks about Constantine and how he wore a crucifix around his head and neck. Don't leave out details about how Tammuz was worshipped by a cross.
Artscola 3 months ago
Very informative. Thank you very much for sharing that.
ojl22 3 months ago
Sorry, but nailing to the surface of a pole =/= impale on a stake.
if you consider all the ancient Greek and Latin writings that talk about the Roman execution, they talk alternatively about nailing, hanging from a transverse beam, hanging on a stake or treetrunk, lifted onto a stake or into a cross, impaled, and even "piledriving themselves"!! And epigraphic evidence from Pompeii and Puteoli confirms *all* of this. And Alexamenos Graffito shows a preliminary stage before adding a stake.
EdM021 5 months ago
Hello mate. I am a "Dubbie" - clearly not a good one cos I am responding to this - it is interesting and your quotes are interesting. I wonder if you accept the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one, along with all that entails? How does this reconcile with everyone saying do your own research - i.e. read sources from the world on a subject that the wicked one would like to ensure remains obscured, confused, shrouded in conjecture. Tricky.
Fizzypop1211 5 months ago
What does it matter? The issue I have is that people all over wear a torture device around their necks and bow down before it in prayer. "Let's all bow our heads before an image of a man being slowly tortured to death" Sounds horrid to me.
druidic6 7 months ago
"The upright post is called stipes, the transverse beam patibulum; and it was this, rather than the entire instrument, which the criminal carried to the place of execution (Plaut. Mostell. i. 1, 53, and ap. Non. s.v. patibulum)." -Webster's Online Dictionary
middleman777 10 months ago
"The prisoner then usually had to carry the horizontal beam (patibulum in Latin) to the place of execution, not necessarily the whole cross. Crucifixion was typically carried out by specialized teams, consisting of a commanding centurion and four soldiers. When it was done in an established place of execution, the vertical beam (stipes) was sometimes permanently embedded in the ground." -word IQ (dot) com
middleman777 10 months ago
"4716 staurós – the crosspiece of a Roman cross; the cross-beam (Latin, patibulum) placed at the top of the vertical member to form a capital "T." "This transverse beam was the one carried by the criminal" (Souter)." -Strongs (Greek concordance)
middleman777 10 months ago
"Method of capital punishment among the Persians, Seleucids, Jews, Carthaginians, and Romans from about the 6th century BC to the 4th century AD. The condemned man was usually whipped and forced to drag the crossbeam [patibulum] to where the upright was standing. His hands were tied or nailed to the crossbeam, which was attached to the upright 9–12 ft (2.5–3.5 m) above the ground, and his feet bound or nailed to the upright." -The Free Dictionary (dot) com
middleman777 10 months ago
"In some cases, the condemned was forced to carry the crossbeam [patibulum] on his shoulders to the place of execution. A whole cross would weigh well over 300 pounds (135 kilograms), but the crossbeam would weigh only 75–125 pounds (35–60 kilograms).[7]...Upright posts would presumably be fixed permanently in that place, and the crossbeam, with the condemned person perhaps already nailed to it, would then be attached to the post."-Wikipedia
middleman777 10 months ago
primarily through the Roman Church through Constantine. Christianity today has European pagan, Roman and Greek mythology mixed into it. Many celebrations, including Easter, Christmas, New Years, Valentine's Day etc. etc. have their roots in ancient mythologies. This is common knowledge. The cross is not a symbol of the Bible and nor are the other holidays I just mentioned in the Bible.
blinksy100 10 months ago
@blinksy100
You're saying nothing new, who here believes that the Cross is NOT a pagan instrument used for torture?
middleman777 10 months ago
@blinksy100
I just gave you 5 dictionary references to back up my claims. How much longer do we need to go round and round on this?
middleman777 10 months ago
I have a degree in history and researched this when writing about why pagan Europe became Christian. I have done a massive amount of reading and whenever the Greek word stauros is used it never would be a cross. For example the pieces of timber used in ramparts were stauros, they are hardly going to use a cross to build a rampart. The Christian cross is based on the sword of the Crusaders. It's history goes back before Jesus and was adopted into the Christian church along with other mythologies
blinksy100 10 months ago
@blinksy100
"I have a degree in history and researched this..."
>>>
Great, then your research should agree with the dictionaries I referenced concerning the patibulum and other issues. Are you saying Jesus carried the upright stake to his crucifixion site instead of the patibulum?
middleman777 10 months ago
Therefore, the witness interpretation is correct.
blinksy100 10 months ago
The other word used for 'cross' is xylos from which the xylophone gets its name. Xylophones use single pieces of wood and not crosses. I can provide 100s of references to show that stauros is a single piece of timber, therefore, Jesus didn't die on a cross. The reason why pagan Europe took to Christianity and had the cross as their symbol was because they were very used to the symbol of the cross: Thor's hammer, the Ankh. thus it was already loaded with meaning to them ; same religion, new name
blinksy100 10 months ago
I researched this at University and wrote a paper on it. The word used in the Bible is stauros, which means a singular piece of wood or a stake. In Aesop's fable the lion gets a stauros in his paw. That is translated into thorn. Hadrian used to impale around 500 people a day with stauros he wouldn't be bothered fashioning crosses a single piece of wood was used. The Christian cross is based on the crusader's sword of the middle ages.
blinksy100 10 months ago
@blinksy100
The word used in the Bible is stauros, which means a singular piece of wood or a stake.
>>
Depends on which Greek dictionary you read. Even if we say a stauros was a single stake, it was common of that day for the patibulum to be added to the stauros; the whole thing which came to be known as a cross. It's very probable that Jesus carried a patibulum (the horizontal beam) to his crucifixion site that had the stauros in place. The Latin "T" cross was the most common of the Romans.
middleman777 10 months ago
It's not whether it was a cross or a torture stake. We should not revere the image. The real problem with the Watchtower Society is that their entire belief system is stacked on top of lies. Satan is the father of the lie. 1874, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975. Now the sly old devil has become more clever. Keep quiet. No more dates. Cover up the lies. Rewrite (update) their books and change their history. The Almighty is watching you. You have much to answer for.
torrents4u2c 10 months ago
JW's are enemies of the cross, that's why they despise it as a symbol. Christ for them is not redeemer, but angelic messenger. Thomas said" unlesss I see the prints from the "nails" in his hands, I will not believe. One stake through the hands wouldn't have done this. Jesus also said "I am the vine", if you look at a stake from a grapevine in Palestine, it has a cross bar holding up the branches of vines in the shape of a cross. Christ's meant for us to visually understand what he said.
protochris 10 months ago
A torture stick looks more pagen, or phalical than a cross does.
4816137 10 months ago
The Non-Christian Cross by J.D Parsons
A 19th Century writer with no Scholarly credentials. Believed that Jehovah was a myth created by the Hebrews and patterned after the Babylonian Sun God. He also believed most of the accounts in the Bible were also based on pagan mythology including the creation account, the flood, and the shape of the cross.
He promoted Spiritualist practices such as psychic powers and also disputed the Authorship of Shakespeare's plays.
Galmozzi99 11 months ago
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
brotherfrank62 1 year ago
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
brotherfrank62 1 year ago
It was a cross. I saw it in "Monty Python's Life of Brian". Still, look on the bright side of life, it's not important is it? He was killed.
sids500 1 year ago
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IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT JESUS DIED ON. FOOLS YOU ARE, TO ARGUE OVER THIS. The cross or Tree or Pole should never be venerated as some idol with special powers to ward off evil, this is idolotry. FOOLS YOU ARE to be divided as Christians. STOP ARGUING, Just beleive in Jesus Christ's Resurrection. JUST WHAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE? I don't get it.
coolyjojo 1 year ago
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IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT JESUS DIED ON. FOOLS YOU ARE, TO ARGUE OVER THIS. The cross or Tree or Pole should never be venerated as some idol with special powers to ward off evil, this is idolotry. FOOLS YOU ARE to be divided as Christians. STOP ARGUING, Just beleive in Jesus Christ's Resurrection. JUST WHAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE? I don't get it.
coolyjojo 1 year ago
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IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT JESUS DIED ON. FOOLS YOU ARE, TO ARGUE OVER THIS. The cross or Tree or Pole should never be venerated as some idol with special powers to ward off evil, this is idolotry. FOOLS YOU ARE to be divided as Christians. STOP ARGUING, Just beleive in Jesus Christ's Resurrection. JUST WHAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE? I don't get it.
coolyjojo 1 year ago
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jesus died on a cross .read 20:25
750blood 1 year ago
the cross is not a phallic symbol moron
myxyzaccount 1 year ago
constantine was not the first to MAKE UP the idea. he only incorporated it into the traditional church idiot.
myxyzaccount 1 year ago
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4:40 It's almost "medically impossible" to cure blindness by touching someone's eyes with spit mud. What's your point?
guitaro5000 1 year ago
4:4o It's almost "medically impossible" to cure blindness by touching someone's eyes with spit mud. What's your point?
guitaro5000 1 year ago
@guitaro5000
Who are you talking to?
middleman777 1 year ago
@middleman777 You. My point is that if you want to incorporate medical concepts to prove or disprove something, you might as well throw the whole story of Jesus out the window all together. None of the gospel was meant to be medically accurate. That's a weak link in an otherwise strong case.
guitaro5000 1 year ago
@guitaro5000
Ok...
middleman777 1 year ago
If Messiah would have came in this time period and were executed in an electric chair, would Christians make an image of him in an electric chair and display it on their walls or as a trinket on a chain around their necks? Giving honor to images is of the pagans.
Frank4YAHWEH 1 year ago
@Frank4YAHWEH
Wow, did you come up with that on your own?
PlanosLie 1 year ago
This question has been asked by many others in times past. Maybe not in the same words or scenario that I have presented. What would be your answer to this question?
Frank4YAHWEH 1 year ago
@Frank4YAHWEH
BTW, "PlanosLie" is my other profile that I use for other subjects of "heavy stuff", such as UFO's etc. But to answer your question about using the electric chair as a symbol, I'll say sure why not. You're grossly informed that I'm giving honor to a pagan symbol just because it's a mere memorial of how my savior died for my sins. How is it that your pagan Watchtowers are ok to be used on YOUR magazines but born agains can't cite a cross? Hypocritical? I think so...
middleman777 1 year ago
@middleman777 Oh Yeah! Those UFOs are really "HEAVY STUFF"! LOL! Yeah! You would say "Sure Why Not!" LOL! My pagan Watchtower? Talk about someone who is grossly misinformed, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness and never said that I was! LOL!
Frank4YAHWEH 1 year ago
@Frank4YAHWEH
Frank my apologies, you debate like a dubbie so I assumed you were one. You got me on that one lol. Ya the UFO issue IMHO will play a huge part of the endtime delusion and Christians need to know about what's going on, and they need to be waned. It all can be explained Biblically though. Take care now...
middleman777 1 year ago
@middleman777 Well, just keep in mind that the Jehvovah's Witness believe that Jesus is God and that he pre-existed his birth just like you do. Not sure if you believe that the babies of the unrighteous are unclean like they do though! This goes along with the "Household Salvation" doctrine. I still have not figured out what the hell they are supposed to be witnesses to yet! LOL!
Frank4YAHWEH 1 year ago
@Frank4YAHWEH I thought that Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was the son of God?
chiefthriller 1 year ago
@chiefthriller Yes, they do, but they also believe that he was "a god" separate from Father Yahweh and that he pre-existed his birth as the arch-angel Michael. I do not believe this. Capitalizing on the word 'god' does not change the belief in that Yahweh or the Messiah His son was "God" or a "god". I do not believe that Yahweh our Heavenly Father and Creator was "God" or a "god" or that His son Yahshua was "God" or a "god". I myself am not a "God" worshiper.
Frank4YAHWEH 1 year ago
@Frank4YAHWEH Soooo do you believe in anything the bible says?
chiefthriller 1 year ago
@chiefthriller Yes, I certainly do believe what the Scripture say! I believe that all Scripture is inspired by Father Yahweh and is profitable for doctrine for reproof and correction and instruction in righteousness, and that we are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of Father Yahweh. yahwehDOTyolasiteDOTcom
Frank4YAHWEH 1 year ago
Great Video
jcdied4all 1 year ago
What seems lost in the argument is the use of the Cross in modern Christianity. The cross is a symbol most Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, hold in high regard. The cross, or stake, or tree, or whatever was used to crucify Jesus should not be a symbol to be used the way Christians do. Kissing, praying, bowing, hung around the neck all are examples of idol worship... something the Bible denounces. Rev. 17 and 18 speaks about Catholics and Protestants, and it tells of their destruction.
cddorcas1 1 year ago
@cddorcas1
Regardless if people worship the cross or not (I don't anyways), it's both Biblical and historical that Jesus died on a cross. There's not much else I can say here...
middleman777 1 year ago
It seems like most of your research begins in early AD. How about you take a look at the early Greek. The Greek does not have the word cross in the bible. The correct word is stauros, which actually means post or stake. The cross, however, is used by pagans to represent their sun god. It is the mystic tau or the babylonian sun cross. Ill refer you to several bible verses for your research about graven images: Exodus 20:4, Leviticus 26:1, Acts 17:29
techsupportguy101 1 year ago
I hope that your verse at the end Colossians 2:14 is not implying the doing away of the Ten Commandments. The Law of Moses yes but never the Ten Commandments.
sr1215cl 1 year ago
Eric Grieschaben agrees with your findings.
stolli72 2 years ago
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@stolli72 If you like poetry you will like this poem search " Is the cross Christian" It will blow your mind!!!!!!!!!! If you are deep!!!!!!!!!
TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
Nickatimes, you should do your own research instead of repeating like a parrot wachtower brainwashed infos . Read the gospels in prayer for Jehovah to enlighten you . Christ did died on a cross John 20 :25 thomas tell the disciples that he want to see the marks of the NAILS in Christ HANDS after his resurection ! So Christ did not died on an uprigth stake but on a cross . Beside at His cruxifiction the sign that pilate wrote ,was put above His head and not above His hand !
marvfay 2 years ago
As recorded at Acts 5:30, the apostle Peter used the word xy′lon, meaning tree, as a synonym for stau·ros′, denoting, not a two-beamed cross, but an ordinary piece of upright timber or tree. It was not until about 300 years after Jesus death that some professed Christians promoted the idea that Jesus was put to death on a two-beamed cross. However, this view was based on tradition and a misuse of the Greek word stau·ros′.
Nickatimes 2 years ago
It is noteworthy that some ancient drawings depicting Roman executions feature a single wooden pole or tree.
Nickatimes 2 years ago
some but not all cause many depict a 2 beam pole....like mt vesivius, and roman god hor and graffitti......ect.....
DocumentaryGuy 2 years ago
not true........early church fathers long before 300 ad said it was a cross......a 2 beamed pole......see tertullian, justin martyr and more.......
DocumentaryGuy 2 years ago
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@Nickatimes If you like poetry you will like this poem search " Is the cross Christian" It will blow your mind!!!!!!!!!! If you are deep!!!!!!!!!
TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
The Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John use the Greek word stau·ros′ when referring to the instrument of execution on which Jesus died. (Matthew 27:40; Mark 15:30; Luke 23:26) The word stau·ros′ refers to an upright pole, stake, or post.
Nickatimes 2 years ago
A more important issue for true Christians should be the propriety of venerating the instrument used to kill Jesus. Whether it was an upright single torture stake, a cross, an arrow, a lance, or a knife, should such an instrument be used in worship?
Nickatimes 2 years ago
amen to that
DocumentaryGuy 2 years ago
not true ....strong says it can be a cross just as vines descibes it also.....you picked what you wanted there.......
DocumentaryGuy 2 years ago
@DocumentaryGuy If you like poetry you will like this poem search " Is the cross Christian" It will blow your mind!!!!!!!!!! If you are deep!!!!!!!!!
TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
Long before the Christian era, crosses were used by the ancient Babylonians as symbols in their worship of the fertility god Tammuz. The use of the cross spread into Egypt, India, Syria, and China. Then, centuries later, the Israelites adulterated their worship of Jehovah with acts of veneration to the false god Tammuz. The Bible refers to this form of worship as a detestable thing.—Ezekiel 8:13, 14
Nickatimes 2 years ago
Besides, the use of the cross in worship is no different from the use of images in worship, a practice condemned in the Bible. (Exodus 20:2-5; Deuteronomy 4:25, 26) The apostle John accurately reflected the teachings of true Christianity when he admonished his fellow Christians with the words: Guard yourselves from idols. (1 John 5:21) This they did even when it meant facing death in the Roman arena.
Nickatimes 2 years ago
Good video, I am sorry I did not know that you named your video the same way I did after you.
51cacheton 2 years ago
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@51cacheton If you like poetry you will like this poem search " Is the cross Christian" It will blow your mind!!!!!!!!!! If you are deep!!!!!!!!!
TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
middleman777 have you ever read the book.
History of the cross, the pagan origin, and idolatrous adoption and worship
It might open your eyes to some of the info you have on this vid. It is available online via google.
Josiahvidz 2 years ago
Please send me a link. Who wrote it?
middleman777 2 years ago
Henry Dana Ward
Josiahvidz 2 years ago
@Josiahvidz If you like poetry you will like this poem search " Is the cross Christian" It will blow your mind!!!!!!!!!! If you are deep!!!!!!!!!
TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
it is obvious from all these versus from the bible that jesus did die on a cross. JW's are spreading false teachings.
PaHughes1993 2 years ago
Really good video. :) Thank you.
Birdboy029 2 years ago
P. Barbet said that MOST people died within 24 to 36 hours of being crucified not 1 like you are trying to make out and thats why they would be the need to break their legs so they could no longer rise up to breathe and would asphyxiate
sjwhite73 2 years ago
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@sjwhite73 If you like poetry you will like this poem search " Is the cross Christian" It will blow your mind!!!!!!!!!! If you are deep!!!!!!!!!
TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
Yes. Stauros means upright pole. But that doesn't prove that a cross-beam wasn't attached. Some telephone poles have cross-beams, while others don't. They're all referred to as poles.
ChristopherLaRock 2 years ago
you have many interesting videos. thanks for posting and sharing this message. best wishes, dear friend :)
jadeeslayton 2 years ago
***** excellent video .
My uncle and his family are jws,i will be sure to bring this up next time i see them !
BornAgainUmustbe 2 years ago
A cross is a symbol. And people pray to it. There are strict instruction about praying to any image. Jesus taught who to pray to and in which manner to pray. Jesus never ever in all of the entirety of the bible says anything about remembering the instrument in which he was torchered through prayer, or worship.
oneworldkingdom 2 years ago
Christians don't pray to a cross. We don't say, "Holy cross we come before you to ask forgiveness of our sins..." We pray to God. The cross is used for us to remember that Jesus died a horrible death so we may be forgiven. When we pray, we pray as we should, as Jesus instructs.
Alucard1242 2 years ago
True christians do not use the cross period. Jesus did not instruct this. This is a lie told to lead people away from christianity. "Cross" is not even mentioned in the bible. Or is it mention to use it in order to remember Jesus. The Early christians never used the cross in their worship to God. Nor do they mention it.
oneworldkingdom 2 years ago
the bible does mention cross, in reference to how Jesus died. Just because the bible does not say we should do something does not mean we shouldn't. the bible does not say we should drive cars but we do anyways. Just because early Christians may not have used it does not mean we shouldn't. The bible does not say we should not either. actually your "lie" is not tole because it is not taught that Jesus instructs this. We do it of our own choosing.
Alucard1242 2 years ago
the thing is that the bible doesn not use the word cross in the original greek simply put those translations of the bible that use the word "cross" is comepletly biased in there translation.
cloud144000 2 years ago
Cloud,
do your research, it's very apparent that you haven't...
middleman777 2 years ago
@middleman777 If you like poetry you will like this poem search " Is the cross Christian" It will blow your mind!!!!!!!!!! If you are deep!!!!!!!!!
TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
The Greek "stauros" refers to a upright pole but does not rule out the attachment of a cross beam. Early church writings refer to "stauros" as having a cross beam to which the hands are attached. Then there is the mention of the sign above his head, not above his hands. This would mean that his hands were most likely not above him.
Alucard1242 2 years ago
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@Alucard1242 If you like poetry you will like this poem search " Is the cross Christian" It will blow your mind!!!!!!!!!! If you are deep!!!!!!!!!
TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Alucard1242 If you like poetry you will like this poem search " Is the cross Christian" It will blow your mind!!!!!!!!!! If you are deep!!!!!!!!!
TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
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@Alucard1242 If you like poetry you will like this poem search " Is the cross Christian" It will blow your mind!!!!!!!!!! If you are deep!!!!!!!!!
TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
@Alucard1242 your right and wrong about the word stauros. but if you look up your history before christ in pre koine greek it ment stake how ever. at the time of christ it ment cross. john 20 25 unless i see his hands the print of the NAILS and stick my finger in to the print of the NAILs. Matthew 27 37 says the charge placed above his head not his hands
viperreturns 1 year ago
Your "lie" is not taught is how it should read. I need to sleep more.
Alucard1242 2 years ago
But the Apostle Paul mentioned the cross several times in his epistles when referring to the ransom sacrifice.
ChristopherLaRock 2 years ago
Matthew24O14,
congratulations sir/ma'am, you've managed to spam all of my latest videos. Keep up the good work and a thumbs up to YOU lol!!! Very effective I must say...ok I'm only kidding...
middleman777 2 years ago
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It is understandable why these clergy or Opposers are spending so much time fault finding & that is all they ever do & focused on they are constantly waging war with us just like the Rabbis & the Priests did to Jesus.
They are angry because people in their churches are leaving them to become JW's to experience real pure worship. They are losing a lot of money. To all of you who wants to experience the very best of Christian love, 7 million of us JW's welcomes everyone!
We teach free of charge!
Matthew24O14 2 years ago
The term "INRI" neither appears on a torture stake nor even a cross; it is simply an abbreviation used on small crucifixes - Iesvs Nazarenvs Rex Ivdæorvm. In addition, the term is also in Aramaic and Greek.
FSMDudeFan 2 years ago
FSMDudeFan,
Yes I am aware of that, I was merely pointing out a picture from Justus' book. Take care now.
Blessings...
middleman777 2 years ago
Love the vidio by the way and what strikes me as interesting is the fact that Jws in the pictures of Jesus on a stake still has one nail in his hands never giving the option there could of been more than one like John 20:25-28 THomas knew that Jesus has more than one nail in his hands it dose not say there hands and feet and Jesus said himself reach into my "hands" the doubting thomas after doing so knew this was Jesus now if Jesus had used one nail to die on like all the pictures of the WTBTS
jwexinfo 2 years ago
Its only an artistic illistration of the death of Jesus ... the WTBTS states "We thus recognize that depictions of Jesus death in our publications, such as you see on page 24, are merely reasonable artistic renderings of the scene, not statements of anatomic absolutes.
(includeing nails) Such depictions need not reflect the changing and conflicting opinions of scholars, and the drawings definitely avoid religious symbols that stem from ancient paganism."
cloud144000 2 years ago
@cloud144000 If you like poetry you will like this poem search " Is the cross Christian" It will blow your mind!!!!!!!!!! If you are deep!!!!!!!!!
TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
Gods name is YHVH / YHWH
Jehova's just a dodjy translation in english for people who can't pronounce the original. in welsh it's Ior, they didt know how to pronouce YHVH either.
Jesus said"I and the Father are One"
and "before Abraham was I am"
Thomas said to Him, "My Lord and MyGod"
"It is by grace you are saved, through faith.... not a result of works so that no one may boast."
thats from the Bible. what more proof do you need? trust Gods word not the teachings of men.
God bless you all
daranac2 2 years ago
:) Jesus did not die on the cross.
lovelough 2 years ago
lovelough,
you say that like you're so certain. How is that you feel confident enough to make this statement?
middleman777 2 years ago
Sorry about the misspelling. YOU should read YOUR, of course!
tommotian 2 years ago
i had never received that comment of yours. u know youtube sometimes acts wack.
well, in our prayers we can also say something about Jesus, y not?. :)
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
Agreed! Hug dear!
tommotian 2 years ago
To nicegirlatmiami:
Middleman asked you some questions. He did answer YOU comments/questions. Here are briefly two of his that you DID NOT answer:
1. Are you sure of the pronounciation of YHWH, and the name-form Jehovah? Evidence, please!
2. What is your comment to his question about Phil. 2:9? And, Doesn't this also show us that we may freely pray to Jesus?
WILL YOU PLEASE ANSWER!!
STATE YOUR CASE.
Thanks!
tommotian 2 years ago
I will be making a video on the tetragrammaton (spelling?) soon!
middleman777 2 years ago
She never gives a straight answer and is never willing to admit she's wrong about anything. I had to block her from my channel because she argued for weeks that the name is Jehovah, same thing you asked there in question 1. No matter how many sources I provided or evidence I showed, she was right and I was wrong, period.
She's a waste of time.
utukkuxul 2 years ago
You are right utukkuxul. What futility. She's just shaming herself.
Her answer is the usual one: No answer.
It reminds me very much of the Watchtower way of answering tricky questions.
tommotian 2 years ago
yes im sure Gods name is Jehovah. i know how to pronounce it in spanish and english. in phil 2:9= "For this very reason also God exalted him 2 a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name".=it doesnt say in dis txt that Jesus name is superior to Jehovahs. Jehovah is God almighty. lol, now on earth there r so many people called "Jesus"- i dont know if u noticed- it could be that thats what is also trying to say. Gods son mighty Jesus needs to be respected.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
Great stuff guys!
middleman777 2 years ago
very informative video I like your research and giving evidence on contradictions of the watchtower and showing historical records of what the early church father's believed in well done. Good video
altorstenlinton 2 years ago
altorstenlinton,
thank-you for your kind words but do you see how our JW friends still disregard this info as "hearsay" and "not accurate". If they could give me sound evidence to their claims then I could/would adjust my video/research. I guess long as people are at least talking, there's hope that the real truth of things will sink in. The reality is that MANY JW's that come on to sites like this leave the org due to the overwhelming info that can't be denied, that is if you want truth.
middleman777 2 years ago
who r u talking about? u dont live or know those jw. dont sit there and talk like u live with them and know their heart. i'm still a jw. lol to u
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
and u dont always know whats in their mind k.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
bowing down to jesus doesnt make him the almighty God. people bow down to famous people and others out of respect - (those people also have names). a lot of things in the bible r symbolic.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
middleman777
Do proper research first before uploading vidios :)
lovelough 2 years ago
Well considering that you don't even know how to spell "videos", I can't take your words too seriously lol. In all fairness though, I'm a terrible speller too lol. Question, what would you like me to add to my research?
I'm all ears...
middleman777 2 years ago
The father is ABBA to me, not just God.
middleman777 2 years ago
i believe and accept the pronounciation in english also even though his name in english and spanish arent pronounce the same.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
Hey middleman what kind of Jesus is yours?
The God/Holyspirit/Jesus Jesus?
The Son of God Only Jesus?
or the MAN/philosopher Jesus?
I've always been partial to the 2nd. I know why his actions are important, but what does it matter what he was killed on. Also I dont know why people wear crosses or hang them in homes. Christians are not supposed to have Idols.
Thoughts?
Peace
winstonm44 2 years ago
winstonm44,
hello how are you? I will answer your question shortly but at the moment I'm trying to get another video finished. In short I believe Jesus is God, he is not the father but the son. I believe he is in the fullness of the "godhead" (1969 KIT says "godship") as the Bible says. I'll add more later ok?
Blessings...
middleman777 2 years ago
what is the father to you?
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
hi, so what is the father to u?
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
look the truth is that the father is God. Gods name is Jehovah. jesus is Gods son. Jesus is a separate person from his father.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
Save your Trinity debate for another video lol. FYI, no Trinitarian will argue with you that Jesus is a separate person from his father. I agree with you, I'm not a modalist.
Blessings...
middleman777 2 years ago
how do u think that happened? well people that have studied those languages very good just know how to pronounce it. since i studied spanish really good- i know how to pronounce the letters and words in spanish.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
As far as God's name being Jehovah, I'll make a video on that one too. BTW, since the form Jehovah (Jehova) is rooted from Latin, how do you say YHWH in HEBREW?
Take care now...
middleman777 2 years ago
how do u suppose we humans where able to pronounce Jehovah in english and Jehova in spanish in our day and understand that its the right pronounciation?.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
nicegirlatmiami,
I will ask you again...how do you say YHWH in HEBREW? BTW, my girlfriend is from Spain (Madrid) and I speak Spanish as well, so I know what you are talking about.
middleman777 2 years ago
did u know that in jesus time people were already speaking Latin? jesus must have known alittle latin. since he was a perfect man unlike all of us he probably tought others the correct way to pronounce Gods name as well as his own in these languages that were around when he was alive. :)
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
but not all latin is pronounced the same. what do u mean? latin also probably came from hebrew. children can learn all those languages. if u didnt know something interesting is that over jesus head when being impaled was a small wooden board that said his information- like his name and facts. if u didnt know it was written in hebrew greek and latin. jesus and other people probably knew how to pronounce Gods name in hebrew,greek and LATIN (since Jesus was always preaching.) did u know that?
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
I will ask you again...how do you say YHWH in HEBREW?
Why are you avoiding my question?
middleman777 2 years ago
Jesus must have tought the first christians the right way to pronounce it.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
nicegirlatmiami,
please read my post on your home page. Me thinks is too long to post here.
Blessings...
middleman777 2 years ago
how can i post in my home page? idk. i've never done that.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
1972 Watchtower publication "Bible in Living English" pg. 7 says:
"certainly the spelling and pronunciation
"Jehovah" were originally a blunder. But the spelling and the pronunciation are not highly important. What is highly important is to
keep it clear that this is a personal name."
middleman777 2 years ago
the jws probably said that but we dont say we dont believe that the way we all (including other languages) pronounce it is wrong.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
Are you still sure God's name is Jehovah?
Remember in Philippians 2:9, Jesus is the name that is above every name in which every knee will bow to, and we are to confess Jesus Christ as Lord.
Take care now, thank-you for your open mind...
middleman777 2 years ago
yes, im sure. and did u know the name jehovah and Jesus are also in the new testament and they are spoken of as separate person? yeah im sure of everything.
i believe that jesus wont come back like u probably have been tought by ur religion- in person.
plus i have to keep studying more. gudnight, ill comment tommorow. im busy and going to sleep. :)
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
did u read the context though? because when jesus was on earth many people did the same (bow down to him)- and sum people even wanted to worship him and wanted him to be king on earth during the time he was living as a fleshy man- but jesus said no..
i dont think bowing down to jesus make him the almighty God. people bow down to famous people and others out of respect - (those people also have names). a lot of things in the bible r symbolic.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
nicegirlatmiami,
good morning how are you? I'm curious, can you please tell me what you are responding to in your last post to me? Was I talking about the worship of Jesus? I don't remember if I brought that up. We can discuss that though. I'm also going to make a video on it.
Take care now!
middleman777 2 years ago
Having read the Bible and continuing to read the Bible now, I've noticed there hasn't been one time that Jesus didn't tell anyone to stop worshiping him. (I grew up with the NIV, now I have a NT AMP, I want a OT AMP ;o; soo gooooood)
In the NWT, they change the word "proskuneo" from "worship" (which they use only in reference to Jehovah) and into "obeisance" for Jesus. I found it interesting how in Acts 10:25 also used "obeisance". See how Peter reacts versus how Jesus reacts...
NeoNikkiChan 2 years ago
You can look things up in the AMP at bible d0t gospelc0m d0t n3t, if you're interested.
replace 0s with os and 3s with es, YouTube has become ridiculous with their comment filters, another reason I'm leaving here.
utukkuxul 2 years ago
Oh, yeah, I already use it. :D Thanks a bunch anyways! <3
NeoNikkiChan 2 years ago
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TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
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TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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TheTruthUnderTheHood 1 year ago
i just told u, i cant keep saying it over and over.
when jesus was around people spoke hebrew and latin. jesus himself read the scriptures. Jesus knew the correct way to pronounce Gods name in Latin and other languages. Jesus preached on earth- he tought other and those people tought it to their kids and its still pronounced like that till this day.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
nicegirlatmiami,
I would love to chat with you but it seems as if you don't want to answer my question. Why is that?
How do you say YHWH in HEBREW?
Why are you avoiding this question?
middleman777 2 years ago
jesus preached to everyone. that included people that knew latin in his time.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
i never said i wasnt going to answer your question. im trying. youtube- wasnt working.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
my computer shut down on me when i was bout to send u a comment like 20 min. ago. it was odd- but oh well.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
"i just told u, i cant keep saying it over and over."
We both know that Jehovah (Jehova) is a Latin name so please tell us the Hebrew pronunciation. Once you do, then we can move on here. You're aware that one of your WBTS books (1961 Let Your Name Be Sanctified) says it's a hybrid made up name right?
middleman777 2 years ago
i could ask u the same thing. y wouldnt u believe someone that knows those three languages? some of the jehovahs witness know these languages- thats y. like i've already told u Jesus when on earth tought others about Gods name and right pronounciation k.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
I guess my question will apparently go unanswered?
I think you need to check your history and see when the name "Jehova" came on the scene. That is, the earliest it's found in historic literature. Even your GB in times past have shown this history.
Take care now...
middleman777 2 years ago
1984 Watchtower publication "Divine Name" book pg. 7 says:
"The truth is, nobody knows for sure how the name of God was originally pronounced".
middleman777 2 years ago
how can u say that? i bet u Jesus when on earth new how to pronounce Gods name. jesus even preached about it when he was on earth if u didnt know. jesus followers were tought by jesus and the followers tought others and the name still lives. okidokey
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
Chances are he didn't speak Latin, but Aramaic or Hebrew... I dunno about Greek, but that's what the NT was written in.
NeoNikkiChan 2 years ago
who r u talking about? jesus? if u r talking bout Jesus=in his time most of the people around him spoke latin. the soldiers that were there during his death were romans and they spoke latin. like i said before. the wooden tablet that was over jesus nailed to the stake or post had his information in hebrew- Greek- and Latin if u didnt know. thats so everyone around could know who he was and his information.
nicegirlatmiami 2 years ago
Greek was like the English of our day, everyone spoke it. (I took Classical Mythology in college which includes learning about the culture of the time) Even my cousins aged 12, 13 and 16 know that he was either speaking Greek or Hebrew and definitely not Latin.
And yeah, Roman soldiers would be speaking Latin to each other.
NeoNikkiChan 2 years ago